Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia

2009-10-17 04:59:27 am

I played around with heart usage a lot, and it's a fairly complex matter, though I don't think it would have had any noticeable impact if I'd gotten every free heart on the way. There are a few enemies I could have killed fairly quickly, but it's more of an alternative to dodging than an improvement as it tends to take just as much time, and I have to take my recording setup into account, too, sadly. My "platforming grip" is different from my "battle grip", and mashing weapons in the middle of a jump tends to make me move the DS around too much. Especially in segment 2, there's no way I'd add another risk to Kalidus after getting past Ruvas with a Heart Repair.

As for the medals, well, I just get some while waiting for the orb, so they obviously don't cost any time.

Aftermath

Edit history:

Aftermath: 2009-10-18 02:23:25 am

2009-10-18 01:11:05 am

Quits halfway

I went ahead and redid your segment 1:

It's a little sloppier than yours (I'm bad at stuff), but ends up saving time because of the better boss fight from having more hearts and exp. You can actually kill the skeletons without stopping, but you have to have really good range/timing, so I do pause for a little bit just to be safe.

The main bits are that I am able to use 3 specials on the boss because of heart collection, and only end with 1 less heart than in your run. Since I killed just about everything on the way (and squandered time chasing one enemy >_>), I leveled up before the boss and the fight was noticeably faster because of the higher damage output. I couldn't reliably get the tutorial skeletons spawning trick that you did, where you'd kill the 2nd and 3rd at the same time. I also messed up Magnes a couple times, but the method I use for it is the faster method it seems.

~~I haven't been able to get a Heart Repair drop yet, but for segment 2 I can end with 46 hearts and be at lv5. I'll try to put up a vid of that later.~~
Edit: Here's part 2:

There's a lot of mistakes, but I thought it was funny how fickle luck manipulation can be, so I decided to upload it. The main thing is just that it's not that much slower to kill the stuff here either, although I wussed out on the Bone Scimitars and didn't kill any of them without stopping. Even though stopping to kill the Axe Armors seems a bit slow, it's worth it to not take the damage or have to deal with their axes flying about. And the way I do Kalidus Channel eliminates most of the waiting.

Oh, one thing I did want to mention. It's probably not your setup that's causing the problems for platform vs battle grip, it's just the control scheme. You can see that I change mine first thing, and it really makes everything much easier, because your thumb's in a more favorable position for both. You might try it out, I think it would also help with steadying the DS, since your hand won't be so curled up to get your thumb on the B button.

I went ahead and redid your segment 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IivJmBZiroM

It's a little sloppier than yours (I'm bad at stuff), but ends up saving time because of the better boss fight from having more hearts and exp. You can actually kill the skeletons without stopping, but you have to have really good range/timing, so I do pause for a little bit just to be safe.

The main bits are that I am able to use 3 specials on the boss because of heart collection, and only end with 1 less heart than in your run. Since I killed just about everything on the way (and squandered time chasing one enemy >_>), I leveled up before the boss and the fight was noticeably faster because of the higher damage output. I couldn't reliably get the tutorial skeletons spawning trick that you did, where you'd kill the 2nd and 3rd at the same time. I also messed up Magnes a couple times, but the method I use for it is the faster method it seems.

[s]I haven't been able to get a Heart Repair drop yet, but for segment 2 I can end with 46 hearts and be at lv5. I'll try to put up a vid of that later.[/s]
Edit: Here's part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGd9RmvnAr8

There's a lot of mistakes, but I thought it was funny how fickle luck manipulation can be, so I decided to upload it. The main thing is just that it's not that much slower to kill the stuff here either, although I wussed out on the Bone Scimitars and didn't kill any of them without stopping. Even though stopping to kill the Axe Armors seems a bit slow, it's worth it to not take the damage or have to deal with their axes flying about. And the way I do Kalidus Channel eliminates most of the waiting.

Oh, one thing I did want to mention. It's probably not your setup that's causing the problems for platform vs battle grip, it's just the control scheme. You can see that I change mine first thing, and it really makes everything much easier, because your thumb's in a more favorable position for both. You might try it out, I think it would also help with steadying the DS, since your hand won't be so curled up to get your thumb on the B button.

Serris

2009-10-18 04:23:07 am

For the tutorial skeletons, it's just about positioning, though judging from the TAS test run, it's faster to use a union on Barlowe.

I'm so used to the standard control scheme that I find anything else to be awkward, especially jump on Y.

Aftermath

Edit history:

Aftermath: 2009-10-18 05:34:35 am

2009-10-18 05:20:06 am

Quits halfway

Thanks for the TAS link, he does some pretty interesting (and frustrating) stuff.

Hmm, I don't think I'd use the union on Barlowe. It saves around a second (or thereabouts?) of running back to hit him, but makes you do 2 unions, meaning that you'd have less than 45 hearts on Arthro, which would cost more than what was saved (although my boss fight did end up 2 seconds slower).

His Confodere attacking is way faster than mine Sad

I'd almost say that he's backdashing between the swings (on the tutorial skeleton), but that's probably just how fast it is.

I guess I can understand about the control scheme, but I still think that it's superior to the default.

Anyway, hopefully I can catch up to your run soon, so I'll be able to verify when you finish, or at least maybe discuss strategies for segments you didn't finish a month ago.

Edit: I'm thinking that I'm going to skip the Battle Boots, at where you are now (if you're still using them), what's the damage difference between having them on/off? I'm hoping that the extra level or two I'll have will make up for the difference.

Thanks for the TAS link, he does some pretty interesting (and frustrating) stuff.

Hmm, I don't think I'd use the union on Barlowe. It saves around a second (or thereabouts?) of running back to hit him, but makes you do 2 unions, meaning that you'd have less than 45 hearts on Arthro, which would cost more than what was saved (although my boss fight did end up 2 seconds slower).

His Confodere attacking is way faster than mine :( I'd almost say that he's backdashing between the swings (on the tutorial skeleton), but that's probably just how fast it is.

I guess I can understand about the control scheme, but I still think that it's superior to the default.

Anyway, hopefully I can catch up to your run soon, so I'll be able to verify when you finish, or at least maybe discuss strategies for segments you didn't finish a month ago.

Edit: I'm thinking that I'm going to skip the Battle Boots, at where you are now (if you're still using them), what's the damage difference between having them on/off? I'm hoping that the extra level or two I'll have will make up for the difference.

Serris

2009-10-18 06:35:28 am

Battle Boots weren't originally going to be in my run, but I got two random Magical Tickets I didn't plan on getting (it would have meant much more manipulation for an item that might end up not saving any time - considering all the stuff you have to get and sell, it could be slower, even), so I was able to delay the one necessary visit to the shop (for tickets and meat) until after Skeleton Cave, where the boots become available. They're certainly not worth an extra shopping trip, so I wouldn't worry about them. One thing you could try is getting Sage to unlock Potions, though I can't think of any particular uses.

Aftermath

Edit history:

Aftermath: 2009-10-18 09:54:33 am

2009-10-18 09:22:53 am

Quits halfway

Hmm, I suppose I won't worry about them then. As for sage, where would be the best place (segment) to pick it up? Just where the TAS guy got it?

But then again, if you haven't needed potions yet in your run, hopefully I'll be able to make do without them (unless it speeds up later things).

Part 3:

Stupidly good luck with rare chests again, 3 for 4.

I know I just started the game, but I'm definitely not liking the combat system in this one, it doesn't feel nearly as fluid as Dawn of Sorrow's. It wasn't bad with Confodere, but Macir is really slow... Not only is the fastest way to attack to just stand in place and tap attack, but the stamina thing slows down combat even more :/

Enough of that rant though, I really should have done better on the boss (yours was faster by 2 or 3 seconds), but made up for it with damage boosting through the next couple rooms. In the other rooms, you'll see that I kill the spear guys, which saves some time over slide kicking into them, but it's hard since you have to use the main glyph for the first jump and the sub glyph on the next jump.

The main thing I wanted to show was just the damage boost timings, though. As long as you jump from the right place, there's no AI luck necessary. With a better boss fight it'd be pretty easy to bring this down by like 3-5 seconds (I ended at 10:22).

Hmm, I suppose I won't worry about them then. As for sage, where would be the best place (segment) to pick it up? Just where the TAS guy got it?

But then again, if you haven't needed potions yet in your run, hopefully I'll be able to make do without them (unless it speeds up later things).

Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j0XJwWXcFo

Stupidly good luck with rare chests again, 3 for 4.

I know I just started the game, but I'm definitely not liking the combat system in this one, it doesn't feel nearly as fluid as Dawn of Sorrow's. It wasn't bad with Confodere, but Macir is really slow... Not only is the fastest way to attack to just stand in place and tap attack, but the stamina thing slows down combat even more :/

Enough of that rant though, I really should have done better on the boss (yours was faster by 2 or 3 seconds), but made up for it with damage boosting through the next couple rooms. In the other rooms, you'll see that I kill the spear guys, which saves some time over slide kicking into them, but it's hard since you have to use the main glyph for the first jump and the sub glyph on the next jump.

The main thing I wanted to show was just the damage boost timings, though. As long as you jump from the right place, there's no AI luck necessary. With a better boss fight it'd be pretty easy to bring this down by like 3-5 seconds (I ended at 10:22).

Satoryu

2009-10-18 12:26:20 pm

Visually Appealing

I hate your setup. Having to move my thumb away from the screen to reach the attack buttons is terrible to me. In any game, not just CV. While holding a controller, or DS in this case, my thumb naturally points up and towards the screen, making hitting Y immediately after B very natural. With your setup, pressing X after Y is pretty awkward, A after Y extremely uncomfortable. Different strokes.

Anyway, on Segment 1, it would be better to not kill anything in the room at 2:43. You can run past everything without having to slide or take damage.

And in Segment 2, it's better to collect the Magical Ticket before rescuing Jakob. Not only are you closer to the glyph, but you get warped forward a bit afterwards.

And what the fuck is up with your luck? Are you trying to make Serris feel bad?

Serris

2009-10-18 12:57:53 pm

As long as he doesn't get two Blow and Wind Rings in one visit, I won't get too depressed.

I'm still stuck at Albus, by the way. He's got a few exploitable pattern loops you can make him do, but none of them are fast. I'm not sure about using unions on him, either. They don't seem to be particularly effective, so maybe I could skip the refill for Barlowe.

Aftermath

2009-10-18 01:58:52 pm

Quits halfway

Can you put up a video showing a couple of attempts of that fight Serris? Maybe one of us will be able to see something or make a suggestion if we see what your current strategies are. If possible, have a part that just goes through the different weapons and glyph unions you can hit him with, just to see how the damages/speeds stack up.

In segment 1, at the 2:43 room, I'd have to damage boost off the Bone Scimitar, since the second Banshee will hit you if you just try to run past normally. I will do that. Also, for the later Bone Scimitars, short hopping 3 Confoderes, then sliding for the last hit will be the new strategy for killing them, as it'll cost the least time.

I wasn't aware you could run through the Torpor crystal, now I feel dumb for not even trying it. That's definitely a better way of doing that part.

I suppose I'll stop trying to give setup advice, as it seems I have extremely atypical preferences.

I can't find a nice way to word it, but I won't be going back to implement these strategies just yet.

Can you put up a video showing a couple of attempts of that fight Serris? Maybe one of us will be able to see something or make a suggestion if we see what your current strategies are. If possible, have a part that just goes through the different weapons and glyph unions you can hit him with, just to see how the damages/speeds stack up.

In segment 1, at the 2:43 room, I'd have to damage boost off the Bone Scimitar, since the second Banshee will hit you if you just try to run past normally. I will do that. Also, for the later Bone Scimitars, short hopping 3 Confoderes, then sliding for the last hit will be the new strategy for killing them, as it'll cost the least time.

I wasn't aware you could run through the Torpor crystal, now I feel dumb for not even trying it. That's definitely a better way of doing that part.

I suppose I'll stop trying to give setup advice, as it seems I have extremely atypical preferences.

I can't find a nice way to word it, but I won't be going back to implement these strategies just yet.

Serris

2009-10-18 02:15:15 pm

There isn't any strategy, he's just really random and hard to manipulate. My offensive options are Vol Secare spam and Vol Secare union. There's nothing to see, I just have to keep trying until I get a good enough fight.

Serris

2009-10-19 01:45:52 pm

Segment 18

Aftermath

2009-10-19 06:06:09 pm

Quits halfway

Looks like a dumb boss. That fight looks good enough though.

Persona

2009-10-20 01:32:24 am

Castlevania?

When I fight him, he never seems to laugh at me other than at the start of the fight, and when I attack him from the back, all he does is jump back and forth using random attacks (just don't stand too close or else he'll do the fire kick).

Not sure if that's a quicker strategy though.

But yeah, I agree that Serris's fight was indeed fast.

Aftermath

2009-10-20 08:37:45 am

Quits halfway

If you add "yt:stretch=16:9" (without quotes) to the tags in your videos, it'll stretch them back out, getting rid of the squished effect.

Serris

2009-10-20 06:34:15 pm

Thanks, all fixed.

Segment 19

Serris

2009-10-21 07:32:03 pm

Segment 20

Aftermath

2009-10-21 07:41:48 pm

Quits halfway

Haha, they made an auto-succubus glitch soul, guess DoS and PoR made them give up on people not finding ways to go through walls.

But yeah, looks like a pretty flawless segment, how much luck manipulation does that boss require (out of curiosity)?

Serris

2009-10-21 07:43:44 pm

None, his first bomb pattern is always the same.

Serris

2009-10-24 03:10:30 pm

Segment 21

Segment 22

Greenalink

2009-10-24 04:06:28 pm

DS Dictator

Quote from Aftermath:

If you add "yt:stretch=16:9" (without quotes) to the tags in your videos, it'll stretch them back out, getting rid of the squished effect.

You are a legend, that's one less thing to worry about now thanks :D.
I just fixed my videos on Youtube too.

Aftermath

2009-10-24 09:49:32 pm

Quits halfway

Congrats, you've almost finished the game, but where did you cut out a segment? I noticed that you're only behind/ahead of your schedule.

Looks like none of the segments really require any luck manipulation, so hopefully they won't be too tedious to do. I'm looking forward to seeing the Eligor fight.

Serris

2009-10-24 10:06:03 pm

I removed the useless second save in Tristis Pass.

There's still a fair bit of luck/enemy manipulation during traveling, it's just not very noticeable and mainly used to survive until the next save point.

Serris

2009-10-25 06:13:38 pm

Segment 23

Glitch

Serris

2009-10-26 04:45:07 pm

Segment 24

Aftermath

2009-10-26 07:12:44 pm

Quits halfway

Your recent segments are really flawlessly done.