Bioshock Infinite - Modern Day Speedrunning!?

2014-03-07 09:01:47 pm

Quote from z1mb0bw4y:

Quote from FearfulFerret:

As soon as you can get us some videos, that would be great.

EDIT: also, Z1m's really old way of getting out of Downtown Emporia fight is now probably the fastest way out.
http://www.twitch.tv/z1mb0bw4y/c/2119673

=O FERRET SAID COOL THINGS ABOUT STUFF I DID

I'm framing this and putting it on my wall.

If you can figure out this skip, I'll let you touch me at SGDQ

z1mb0bw4y

2014-03-07 09:06:08 pm

Gets the cake.

find a consistent comstock gate skip method? Or like find how/why it works?

FearfulFerret

2014-03-07 09:27:57 pm

find a consistent method, which will probably require knowing how/why it works

The_Scrivener

2014-03-08 09:23:22 pm

Quote from FearfulFerret:

Quote from z1mb0bw4y:

Quote from FearfulFerret:

As soon as you can get us some videos, that would be great.

EDIT: also, Z1m's really old way of getting out of Downtown Emporia fight is now probably the fastest way out.
http://www.twitch.tv/z1mb0bw4y/c/2119673

=O FERRET SAID COOL THINGS ABOUT STUFF I DID

I'm framing this and putting it on my wall.

If you can figure out this skip, I'll let you touch me at SGDQ

I feel like I have it mostly figured it out. Can I poke you with a pencil in lieu of official touching?

FearfulFerret

2014-03-08 09:48:56 pm

videos or it didn't happen

VangerF

2014-03-09 04:16:27 pm

Couldn't get it to work today. I always end up near the gate or near the statue, but not once did I get it.

I did it the exact same way yesterday and I could get it at least 3 times out of 5. Weird :/

Stoic_Squirrel

2014-03-09 04:34:29 pm

Weird indeed...I've been successful 7 times over a total of 2 hours attempting the skip. Since then I've probably tried for 2 hours and haven't gotten it once.

RealLink

2014-03-09 04:37:29 pm

I haven't had much luck with it either in my last tries. I've been trying to collect some info on how the game determines your respawn point when you get set back via those warps, and I think my theory of it being connected directly to the infinite death glitch is correct.
I'm 100% certain the game keeps track of multiple respawn points to send you back to if you jump off the city. When and how a new point is set I haven't quite figured out yet, but in the area I tested it (the area before HoH) it ONLY created a new one when I actually touched the ground and not the railings. Now if the game does not have a close enough point to respawn you to (or none at all) it will end up in a infinite loop of killing you, and then immediately sending you to the exact same position killing you again. It also seems - though that has not helped with getting the glitch to work - that you have to be really close to the X and Y position of the respawn point you want to end up at when the game warps you back. We tried dying far behind the gate and then jumping off far from the bank but it unfortunately didn't produce any different results.

Stoic_Squirrel

2014-03-09 05:03:53 pm

I have come to the same conclusion...this skip may very well have to do entirely with the respawn point of the player. I've done some testing of the infinite death glitch myself by suicideing well away from the gate and then continuing with the skip as normal (i.e., second suicide, jump down to and then off the bank, etc.) This results in the IDG occuring, even if I jump off of known "safe" spots from the bank. I am assuming, like you RealLink, that the game determines respawn points periodically for the player. During the IDG, I'm guessing the game has nowhere to put you, and so you die over and over, forcing a reset.

I've done some testing of the respawn system by jumping off various ledges near the gate, but I havn't figured out any patterns yet. For the sake of this skip, I hope the game determines the spot based off of your proximity to the spot rather then setting points at certain time intervals.

As a small interesting side note...the game also seems to record where you are looking when it records a respawn point...correct me if I'm wrong, but all successful attempts end with the player looking down, which is common when doing a sprinting suicide. I've had several occasions where I have spawned after jumping off the bank and my character is looking in the direction I was looking in that exact spot prior to suicide...whether at the gate, the floor, or sometimes even outside to the statue. I'm not sure if this has any bearing, but it is interesting nonetheless.

I have come to the same conclusion...this skip may very well have to do entirely with the respawn point of the player.  I've done some testing of the infinite death glitch myself by suicideing well away from the gate and then continuing with the skip as normal (i.e., second suicide, jump down to and then off the bank, etc.)  This results in the IDG occuring, even if I jump off of known "safe" spots from the bank.  I am assuming, like you RealLink, that the game determines respawn points periodically for the player.  During the IDG, I'm guessing the game has nowhere to put you, and so you die over and over, forcing a reset.

I've done some testing of the respawn system by jumping off various ledges near the gate, but I havn't figured out any patterns yet.  For the sake of this skip, I hope the game determines the spot based off of your proximity to the spot rather then setting points at certain time intervals.

As a small interesting side note...the game also seems to record where you are looking when it records a respawn point...correct me if I'm wrong, but all successful attempts end with the player looking down, which is common when doing a sprinting suicide.  I've had several occasions where I have spawned after jumping off the bank and my character is looking in the direction I was looking in that exact spot prior to suicide...whether at the gate, the floor, or sometimes even outside to the statue.  I'm not sure if this has any bearing, but it is interesting nonetheless.

VangerF

2014-03-09 05:41:25 pm

I can confirm the looking down part (at least for me). Everytime I got the skip to work I was performing a suicide skip looking down.

I've tried a few suicide shooting on the gate and looking forward, never worked.

Also, it is apparently not related to the distance you die behind the gate. I've had it working while dying far behind the gate and even once after dying "in the gate". So I join the idea that it has to do with the game creating a backup respawn point. Now the question is : how and when? There might be a way to force the game to create one behind the gate. Anyone tried interacting with the gate before doing the glitch ?

Stoic_Squirrel

2014-03-09 05:55:41 pm

I've gone back and watched all of my past attempts; I've died varying distances inside and even on the gate during my successful skips. RealLink's video has him dying on the opposite side of the gate that I do all of my attempts, yet he spawns on the same square that I spawn on every time. Has everyone always spawned in the same area once through Comstock Gate?

RealLink

2014-03-09 05:58:06 pm

I ended up on the left side once where you always jump through but I think that was after I've been behind it already and not reloading a checkpoint. I can't remember most of them, but I know I always/most times jumped through the right part of the gate.

VangerF

Edit history:

VangerF: 2014-03-09 06:50:50 pm

2014-03-09 06:48:29 pm

The more I try, the more I feel like it's time related. I've done the glitch like 15 times in a row and each time I spawn back a little behind my suicide spot, no matter where I die. I tried suiciding further away from the gate (at the bottom of the big statue), and I spawn at the bottom of the stairs (way I took to get to my suicide spot).

But then, this would mean that when we get it, it's because we end up behind the gate at the exact time the game does the backup respawn point. That seems like too much RNG, we would almost never get it right and yet we do. There has to be something else.

BTW, another thing that might confirm this time thing is : if you stand still a little time and kill yourself, you end up spawning back where you were standing still. :/

Chadbrochill84

Edit history:

Chadbrochill84: 2014-03-10 06:55:05 am

2014-03-10 06:45:49 am

There may be some validity to the Elizabeth positioning mattering. I just did a few test where i put her right up against the left side of the gate and it put her on the comstock house side and me directly up against the gate.

Man i wish the trick was to get Elizabeth to spawn behind the gate because I can get that every time now.

VangerF

2014-03-10 06:55:16 am

But then what happens if you do the glitch again right away ? Since Elizabeth is on the comstock house side, if it's position dependent, you're gonna end up on her side the next time you glitch, right ? I'll have to test that.

Chadbrochill84

Edit history:

Chadbrochill84: 2014-03-10 09:09:50 am

Chadbrochill84: 2014-03-10 07:16:54 am

2014-03-10 07:03:11 am

I always end up pressed right up against the gate. The setup I was using was to push her into the left corner of the door facing the door. Sometimes she spawns in the door but the majority of the time its on the comstock house side

Just a few tips for if you are giving this as many hours of attempts as I am.

If you are trying it without reverting to last checkpoint, then put a bucking bronco trap down so you can remember exactly where you landed. And some stupid stuff that doesn't work that i put a few hours of attempts at, I tried filling the area with Bucking Bronco traps because i thought the game would force spawn you through the gate, and I tried spamming shock jockey traps everywhere with my graphics on ultra to try to lag the game into spawning me in the lag free comstock house side.

Also is everyone loading the graveyard section when they fall or avoiding that? If you don't know what I'm talking about i mean if you fall off to the bank if you fall forward enough you spawn that section and then the graveyard.

I always end up pressed right up against the gate.  The setup I was using was to push her into the left corner of the door facing the door.  Sometimes she spawns in the door but the majority of the time its on the comstock house side

Just a few tips for if you are giving this as many hours of attempts as I am.

If you are trying it without reverting to last checkpoint, then put a bucking bronco trap down so you can remember exactly where you landed.  And some stupid stuff that doesn't work that i put a few hours of attempts at, I tried filling the area with Bucking Bronco traps because i thought the game would force spawn you through the gate, and I tried spamming shock jockey traps everywhere with my graphics on ultra to try to lag the game into spawning me in the lag free comstock house side.

Also is everyone loading the graveyard section when they fall or avoiding that?  If you don't know what I'm talking about i mean if you fall off to the bank if you fall forward enough you spawn that section and then the graveyard.

RealLink

Edit history:

RealLink: 2014-03-10 12:03:33 pm

2014-03-10 12:02:14 pm

~~I don't think I ever loaded the graveyard, sometimes I load the rest of the area with the big statue that the second suicide messes up.~~ Nevermind.

Something I've been thinking about last night, what if we just have 2 or more people do the same thing (same route, taking the same time), or at least as close as possible, when trying the trick? From the Downtown Emporia Save up to the jump off the bank, and see where they end up. If the do end up at the same position redo it but with like a second or two difference to see if its timing based. Gonna do it myself later one after another, that should have the same effect.

Chadbrochill84

2014-03-10 12:28:34 pm

I'm 99% sure it isn't timer based. Im pretty sure its based on a few conditions

The_Scrivener

2014-03-11 02:37:12 pm

As the original advocate of the Elizabeth positioning mattering argument, I disagree. I've gotten the trick well over 25% of the time over my last few practices and Elizabeth was pretty much wherever.

I would like to chime in on IDG happening though. It seems like I have been in a consistent safe position for the final jump a few times and got the IDG. Which is really bizarre and perhaps a clue as mentioned earlier.

I've yet to get the trick to work when Booker lands anywhere except in/barely in the other side of the gate.

Chadbrochill84

2014-03-11 02:41:28 pm

I don't think Elizabeths positioning matters on the first suicide, I think it matters on the jump. Every time I have gotten it to work Eliz has spawned in the bank stuck on a couch or chair thing thats right next to where she spawns.

The_Scrivener

Edit history:

The_Scrivener: 2014-03-11 03:45:24 pm

The_Scrivener: 2014-03-11 03:33:11 pm

The_Scrivener: 2014-03-11 03:24:47 pm

2014-03-11 03:14:47 pm

Chad, you may have it. Unconfirmed, but I just did 5 failures, followed by a success. The success was the only time I could even see where Elizabeth was in the bank beneath me. It was also the only time I heard her. (She was stepping/gasping. You know how she does.)

It was also the only gate jump of the 5 where I hit the money spot in the middle of the gate during suicide.

EDIT: Just got another failure with no Elizabeth in the bank followed by a success with her in the bank. I really feel like the golden spot is right in the midst of the centermost part of the gate. Elizabeth being beneath you in the "Flag painting" room seems to be the confirmation on the success/failure of your jump. Granted these tests were all done on the same save file. I understand that people seem to have gotten the trick from landing in different places beyond the gate or whatever, but the most consistent results on my tests are right in the middle.

Also worth noting: Once you successfully do the trick, I think you have to restart at Downtown Emporia. When I suicide back across the gate, I can't fail no matter how much I want to to "reset" everything and even when I get IDGed and restart, I still end up on the Comstock House side of the gate.

EDIT2: Of course I just got Elizabeth in that room and the trick failed. Ignore this post and eff this effing glitch.

Chad, you may have it. Unconfirmed, but I just did 5 failures, followed by a success. The success was the only time I could even see where Elizabeth was in the bank beneath me. It was also the only time I heard her. (She was stepping/gasping. You know how she does.)

It was also the only gate jump of the 5 where I hit the money spot in the middle of the gate during suicide.

EDIT: Just got another failure with no Elizabeth in the bank followed by a success with her in the bank. I really feel like the golden spot is right in the midst of the centermost part of the gate. Elizabeth being beneath you in the "Flag painting" room seems to be the confirmation on the success/failure of your jump. Granted these tests were all done on the same save file. I understand that people seem to have gotten the trick from landing in different places beyond the gate or whatever, but the most consistent results on my tests are right in the middle.

Also worth noting: Once you successfully do the trick, I think you have to restart at Downtown Emporia. When I suicide back across the gate, I can't fail no matter how much I want to to "reset" everything and even when I get IDGed and restart, I still end up on the Comstock House side of the gate.

EDIT2: Of course I just got Elizabeth in that room and the trick failed. Ignore this post and eff this effing glitch.

Chadbrochill84

2014-03-11 03:55:14 pm

Is everyone doing emporia skip or doing the jump over the gate trick?

And yea man I did about 3 hours of attempts and I thought I had figured it out about 15 different times. This has to be the most frustrating skip ever.

I was able to call whether or not I would make it with 80% accuracy for about 15 attempts then couldn't guess a single one. I'm still convinced it has to do with where Eliz is in the bank, or at least it becomes more consistent when she is in a certain position.

The_Scrivener

2014-03-11 04:00:30 pm

Yeah, my 2 hour test session is over for today. I'm using the Emporia Skip modified for consistency. (I hate not quite making it, getting stuck in the walls and having to restart the Emporia fight. I jump/suicide over near where the Fireman is.)

Random ruminations:

-Regardless of how exactly it works, I'm able to get it about 1 in every 4-6 times. But yeah, there are sections where I go 0-8 or 0-9 so I'm still not ready to run with it.

-There's a message of some kind beneath the yellow and black stripe that I only see sometimes when I'm respawning. One of the words is "Gate" and I really want to know what it says for no other reason than it's there and I'm curious.

-I'm fine with the trick being precise, but it seems more accurate right now to say it's finicky which is much less acceptable.

-I'm going to do a huge run of tests later tonight where I go as far beyond the gate as humanly possible. If I can go 20-30 in a row without getting a single success and I can still get the occasional success by being dead in the center of the gate, I'm going to assume location is relevant.

Yeah, my 2 hour test session is over for today. I'm using the Emporia Skip modified for consistency. (I hate not quite making it, getting stuck in the walls and having to restart the Emporia fight. I jump/suicide over near where the Fireman is.)

Random ruminations:

-Regardless of how exactly it works, I'm able to get it about 1 in every 4-6 times. But yeah, there are sections where I go 0-8 or 0-9 so I'm still not ready to run with it.

-There's a message of some kind beneath the yellow and black stripe that I only see sometimes when I'm respawning. One of the words is "Gate" and I really want to know what it says for no other reason than it's there and I'm curious.

-I'm fine with the trick being precise, but it seems more accurate right now to say it's finicky which is much less acceptable.

-I'm going to do a huge run of tests later tonight where I go as far beyond the gate as humanly possible. If I can go 20-30 in a row without getting a single success and I can still get the occasional success by being dead in the center of the gate, I'm going to assume location is relevant.

RealLink

2014-03-11 07:26:02 pm

Part of the reason I'm trying to figure out the game mechanic behind the respawn points is that I haven't been able to get past the gate a single time ever since the day I've discovered it. I've been trying for about 2h every day with no success so I thought going with that would be a better idea. There seem to be no visible connections between all the successful attempts of different people.

teliot

2014-03-11 07:31:14 pm

1 in 4 tries sounds amazing actually. I am sitting at about 1 in a hundred here.