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mikwuyma: 2014-08-22 07:09:47 pm
My feelings on The Demon Rush
I remember FFT discussion.

Anyway, onto the main discussion.

Pitches: Honestly, there are some games that don't need lengthy pitches. MMX is one of them, it's already a well-established game in marathons, and Caleb is known to be a good runner for the game. Pitches are there to cover what needs explanation, and frankly, MMX doesn't need much. Generally if a game is good it will sell itself, but pitches can help highlight the good points of a game for a marathon, especially if it is a more obscure game I am not familiar with. In the end, it's really about the game and the runner being good for running the game, the pitch is simply there to help.

Submission+running stress: Honestly, what Danac and Vulajin said is very true. I generally don't get too stressed by running, but there have been times when I've been stressed out of my mind doing a run, whether it was just wanting to get it over with and go back to marathon duties, wanting to put on a good show, or outside stress (thanks bullshit charge from Crowne DIA).

Also remember that even if you have a game, and let's say it's an hour, that's still 149+ hours you have to do you know, other stuff.

Twitch fame: Honestly, the only person who I can say actually received a huge viewer spike after a marathon was Adam_ak. Most people who have received massive amounts of followers after marathons such as Bananas (8k), tminator (3k), and CGN (5-6k), don't have a huge surge in viewer counts. I remember tman had over 100 viewers right after AGDQ, but he stopped streaming as much Viewtiful Joe (hey a job does that), and the last couple of times I have seen him stream, he generally has 30-40 viewers.

Generally the most popular speedrun streamers on twitch don't get it their popularity from marathons, they get it from streaming consistently, streaming games people like watching, having a good/charming/something attractive about their personality, and promoting themselves online outside of marathons.

Do people with follower surges get more viewers after marathons? Yes, but most don't keep those viewer counts up.

BTW, this is completely ignoring that the average runner gets maybe 100-150 followers during a marathon.

Using runs from 3+ years ago: Honestly, the community and standards were so different back then, that's hard to extrapolate a lot from marathons such as SGDQ 2011, especially since many of the games on the schedule were simply what people could run (hey, there were about 20 attendees).

Hiding submissions: Honestly as bad as some people are making out revealing submissions and the text publically, the backlash would be much greater for hiding submissions or making them private, and deservedly so. There would be zero transparency, and I would be receiving accusations of lying and manipulating results. Whether that would be true or not, you wouldn't know because you wouldn't be able to see.

Lee: you only think you're better looking. :x Good post though, I do agree with josh's point about awful games, except some games practically sell themselves on their awful/weirdness.
Yeah I left out AwfulGDQ because I sort of expect people who are submitting to AwfulGDQ to know EXACTLY what they're doing, and what they're signing up for (the shitty time slot, the half awe half pity that you'd run this game, the chance that your run's just going to bomb). I should add though, that if you're going to submit for AwfulGDQ EXPLICITY say that it's for the AwfulGDQ block. If you offer up an awful game but are 100% serious about the submission, well that's going to impact how you commentate the game, which is also going to impact the chances of it getting in.
My feelings on The Demon Rush
Yeah one thing I legitimately regret not having as a category is an awful category, just for AwfulGDQ games. Hindsight is 20/20.
Edit history:
Lee: 2014-08-22 07:50:01 pm
Oh and one last thing: if you have a long game, or even a short one, it helps a lot if you mark off where the entertaining moments are. Add annotations to the beginning of your youtube video so that we can see exactly where the highlights of your right are. If your run is multiple hours long, or even an hour, it's not very realistic to expect close scrutiny of each and every moment.

This is like writing a resume. You need to create a narrative for people to follow, and everything should go towards supporting that narrative. The more examples you can point to of having the qualities you claim to have, the better it is for you.

Editing to include the last 2 posts in my original one.
My feelings on The Demon Rush
Yeah Lee is correct, while I watch almost every video, there is no way I can watch every moment (unless if the game is about 5 minutes), so I skim around.
Talk to the Hand
I thought you were trying to avoid "highlight reels" due to a bad experience with them (I'd have to go back and look, but I thought you mentioned one run that looked cool due to a highlight reel, and those two minutes turned out to be the only entertaining bits of a long run).

If you're not, and if we DON'T upload them to Youtube, what's the best way to point out those moments, IE the ones we think you should skim to?
My feelings on The Demon Rush
Well I don't like small reels that only show the highlights, because then that makes me wonder what the rest of the game is like. If I can see the entire game on top of the highlights, then it's cool.
The difference between a highlight reel and a video that annotates where the highlights are is that a highlight reel cuts out the parts that are boring/shitty. With annotations, you can point to where the cool parts are, but you also can't hide the fact that you have 5 minutes of hilarity and 75 minutes of a walking simulator.
Talk to the Hand
True. That said, maybe in the future, a field for pointing out the best two or three parts of your video would be helpful (For those who don't use Youtube, and/or never bothered giving them the info that would lift the 15-minute limit on their accounts). If not, I understand.
Mike: aren't you forgetting the WTF Japan! category, or is that a one shot kind of deal?

I would think we'd all to love to see it make another appearance.
My feelings on The Demon Rush
Actually, I think the general reception to that was meh. If anything, that block would be more suited to SGDQ, especially with the types of games romscout likes picking.
So that's the only time we'll get to see you run Rising Zan. Sadness.

I would agree that Romscout has an eye for games that would be the most unique for that block. Wouldn't expect that for someone so versed in Metroidvanias.
That's because you forget that he's also versed in SMT, and more importantly, Hamtaro.
Edit history:
MURPHAGATOR!: 2014-08-22 09:02:26 pm
~_~
What the hell are viewers? :\

Mod edit: 0 Content
Edit history:
thadarkman78: 2014-08-22 08:59:36 pm
The only reason there's no FFT discussion right now is because there is no discussion from organizers about it. I'm not saying that the discussion should happen right now as I definitely understand there is a ton of stuff going on with game submissions and hotel stuff for mike, but please do not ignore the pages of posts that were responses to Mike's arguments for why FFT should not be in. Worst case scenario if nothing further is said from the organizers about FFT, then I have an idea that will be impossible to ignore, but would rather not do it if I don't need to (no it's nothing bad, it's win win for everyone).
I would really greatly appreciate if something was said about all the FFT stuff, but I also appreciate Mike Uyama and the amount of stuff he has to do. I am a patient man, and reasonable, too. Thank you for your time.
Whats the process behind blocks?  Not as in a series block like a group of megaman/sonic games, but blocks like WTFJapan/awful.  WTFJapan was essentially a product of No One Can Stop Mr. Domino!, but are all blocks made this way?  Are the blocks pre-determined, and games are selected to fit them; or are blocks typically made after the fact, grouping the games as best you can?
Edit history:
gusmancini: 2014-08-22 11:24:25 pm
edit never mind i re read the first page
Totally rad
Quote from mikwuyma:
Honestly, the only person who I can say actually received a huge viewer spike after a marathon was Adam_ak. Most people who have received massive amounts of followers after marathons such as Bananas (8k), tminator (3k), and CGN (5-6k), don't have a huge surge in viewer counts.


I really wish I could stop being used as an example for this, because it's plain untrue: there was no big spike. Stream popularity is largely a factor of how often and how long you stream, and what game it is. Thinking that GDQs are a magical "+2k viewers" button is absurd. It goes via gradual growth.

The biggest jump in viewer counts I've seen is for Sinister1, but I guess people soon realised that, given the high standards, MTPO streams are a lot of hard work and less crazy, crowd-drawing challenges like blindfolded runs.

If you're going to a GDQ and want to submit your game solely to gain popularity, then you're an ass. Go to the marathon to have fun, and potentially show off your game to a bunch of speedfriends. They are the ones who matter and understand what you do - not the stream monsters. There's no need for self-diagnosed anxiety crap.
Edit history:
NewAgeRetroHippie: 2014-08-23 02:59:38 am
NewAgeRetroHippie: 2014-08-23 02:59:09 am
NewAgeRetroHippie: 2014-08-23 02:58:35 am
Let's be honest: if popularity is all that's on your mind, you're better off not speedrunning in the first place. Enjoy the hobby and stream regularly for a long amount of time and you MIGHT get popular. I put in around 1.7k hours on Twitch running a popular series and never made it ~*~Big Time~*~. GDQs are for raising money for charity in an entertaining way and hanging out with people. I feel as though people take marathon participation way too seriously. Honestly, the FFT posts sound like people trying to nominate Claude into the speedrunning Hall of Fame or some shit. Getting your run declined until the next chance 6 months from now is not a big deal.
Edit history:
Uznare: 2014-08-23 03:53:56 am
Uznare: 2014-08-23 03:52:33 am
Quote from NewAgeRetroHippie:
I feel as though people take marathon participation way too seriously. Honestly, the FFT posts sound like people trying to nominate Claude into the speedrunning Hall of Fame or some shit. Getting your run declined until the next chance 6 months from now is not a big deal.

Actually with how big GDQs are getting, it kinda is, because chances are that if FFT doesn't get in now it probably never will. If a run with so much community support like FFT is still not even being considered then how are less known runners or games expected to have a chance in future GDQs when the events will be much bigger than they are now?

The event is obviously first and foremost for charity, but by homogenizing the events so early on you run a risk of getting less donations because viewers will be bored of watching the same runs every six months.
If you think this is mostly about Claude then I think you're mistaken.  Claude was already accepted for an AGDQ'15 run for DKC2, which as WR holder for a popular game is very likely to make the final cut.  Normally the community that rallies around a runner would be happy with a runner getting 1 of 2 submitted runs into the marathon.  Instead there's only been frustration at the rejection of FFT.

Many of the posts that have been in support of FFT have talked about the popularity, nostalgia, content, and strategy of a speedrun for the game.  TheClaude being the streamer is one selling point but only one of many.

I certainly don't think it will be the end of the world if FFT remains rejected, but I'd still much much prefer that the game were in the marathon, due to how amazing the game is IMO and how much TheClaude's work has made the game so optimized.
Edit history:
Reiska: 2014-08-23 04:33:57 am
Quote from NewAgeRetroHippie:
Getting your run declined until the next chance 6 months from now is not a big deal.


This assumes that either 1) you can attend both marathons or 2) your game/category has other marathon-caliber runners than you, to be fair.  I don't know about the former, but I don't know of anyone that's running FFT nomath% outside of Claude (heck I don't think anyone is actively running FFT in any category outside of him, right now, unless chessjerk or Withhelde started up any% again).  Either way FFT definitely does fall into the third category lee mentioned on the previous page.

Also I don't remember who said it, but the reason the community didn't rally behind chessjerk's previous FFT submissions was category choice (any% is a fairly uninteresting category for FFT, both to watch and to run, it simply grinds to a broken strategy that works on everything and uses it forever).  nomath% has to vary up the strategies some since there's less overt grinding done so the strategies do have to get mixed up a bit sometimes.  It's true that a lot of battles *do* end with a broken katana and a summon, but it isn't the only strategy in play (without spoiling the specifics, the final boss strategy is extremely inventive and something I never would have thought of as a casual player).  If someone already said that I apologize for repeating points, this thread is occasionally moving faster than I can really keep up with.
Quote from Uznare:
The event is obviously first and foremost for charity, but by homogenizing the events so early on you run a risk of getting less donations because viewers will be bored of watching the same runs every six months.


Before everyone goes around throwing statements like this around for the billionth time, as of right now there are 61 games on the accepted list that have NEVER been in a GDQ.  There are 38 games that were played at a GDQ in 2014, 15 games that haven't been played since 2013, 15 games that haven't been played since 2012 or earlier.  And this isn't even accounting for things like different categories, races vs. not races, etc.

People act like GDQ's "always have the same games"  because the games that we've already seen before are way more recognizable and memorable, thus why they keep getting into the marathons more often.  Games like your Marios, Zeldas, Megamans, have consistently proven to bring in viewers and donations, so those will always get in.  But the marathon organizers also have always brought in new blood both in regards to games and runners.
Edit history:
Melodia: 2014-08-23 01:53:42 pm
Quote from Reiska:
the final boss strategy is extremely inventive and something I never would have thought of as a casual player).


I was absolutely floored by it too, and I've played 100s of hours of the game. The run is worth it for that alone, almost. And yeah there's a LOT more that goes on. I haven't counted but I'm positive the draw out strategy isn't much more than half the battles, if that -- many of the late game battles either don't use it or use it for easily less than half of the turns.
It's a real shame that the J-only glitch isn't in this one because it would make the run shorter AND be even more interesting than it is (though, granted, a lot of shooting things).