A change is in order

2014-10-20 07:35:38 pm

Quote from Felly:

Question Lurk:

Do you feel comfortable disclosing ALL of your financial information? I think you're putting yourself into a corner on this.

I do, if show them mine will they show me theirs ?

lurk

2014-10-20 07:39:59 pm

Quote from Felly:

Question Lurk:

Do you feel comfortable disclosing ALL of your financial information? I think you're putting yourself into a corner on this.

if i was the head organizer of a charity event i would want to be as transparent as possible, including any salary i or staff were making off of the event. individual financial information is completely different: it's not like you have to disclose how much debt you're in, how much you make from a different job, etc.

it's a way to stay credible and be open about the process

i can disclose that i have made $0 from GDQ events, but have spent over $2k in attending both GDQ events in 2014

Domakr

2014-10-20 07:52:08 pm

Wah~

I'll put up my financial information here if at least one of you buy me some Steam games, I spent all my cash on Taco Bell.

Knox

2014-10-20 07:55:29 pm

Quote from anorexic_dad_420:

I'll put up my financial information here if at least one you buy me some Steam games, I spent all my cash on Taco Bell.

inb4 delete

MURPHAGATOR!

2014-10-20 08:02:09 pm

Terraffirmative!

Alright guys, this is going nowhere quickly. Mike is currently out of town and will give a more official response to all of this tomorrow. For now, just hang back since no one else really has the authority to make a statement.

Darkwing Duck

2014-10-20 08:05:15 pm

Highly Evolved

Quote from lurk:

i can disclose that i have made $0 from GDQ events, but have spent over $2k in attending both GDQ events in 2014

Would time served be included in your formula, or specifically money spent in direct correlation with being at the event. Would money raised for the charity be involved in the charity as well? For instance, due to your direct involvement, a quantifiable amount of money was raised. Your stated formula seems way to simplistic and fairly pointless in determining compensation for organizers of any charity event.

lurk

2014-10-20 08:10:30 pm

Quote from Darkwing Duck:

Quote from lurk:

i can disclose that i have made $0 from GDQ events, but have spent over $2k in attending both GDQ events in 2014

Would time served be included in your formula, or specifically money spent in direct correlation with being at the event. Would money raised for the charity be involved in the charity as well? For instance, due to your direct involvement, a quantifiable amount of money was raised. Your stated formula seems way to simplistic and fairly pointless in determining compensation for organizers of any charity event.

well yea cause it was a joke

sumichu

2014-10-20 08:42:35 pm

ㅋㅋㅋㅋ

Hey guys, as Murphagator said, Mike is currently in transit right now (to add a bit more detail, he attended Chicagothon and is on the way home via car). He has been made aware of the posts made in the thread today and said he will provide a response tomorrow.

Cool Matty

2014-10-20 08:43:08 pm

Crawlathon WR, get down on my level.

The only thing I'm going to mention since my skimming didn't seem to give an answer:

Games Done Quick LLC (the company) is not a charity/non-profit organization. We in general do not accept donations and it wouldn't make much sense to be a non-profit at this time.

Ishmon

2014-10-21 12:29:25 am

I can't Reach that Brick - Lee 2012

Love this thread.

mikwuyma

2014-10-21 04:17:41 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

I was out at Chicagothon and I didn't get back until 3 am last night after driving, so that's why I haven't been active in this thread until now. I think people are confused about how the situation between PCF and GDQ (as a company) works.

PCF is a nonprofit, you can look up their 990 (it's the equivalent of a tax form and it’s required by the IRS) on Foundation Center, Guidestar, or on PCF's website. The 2013 form isn't up because PCF's tax year ends in the middle of the year, and it will be a little while until 2013 is posted.

The 990 won't list the salaries of all of the employees (though it will list how much money is spent on employees), but it will list salaries of the officers, directors, and trustees (aka board members and president and vp), and 5 highest paid employees who are compensated over $100,000. It will also list contractors who have been paid more than $100,000 (spoilers, I won’t be on the 2013 form when it comes out).

Now you might be wondering about the staff for AGDQ 2015. The staff is actually contracted* by PCF (and DWB for SGDQ), and not through GDQ. This is convenient because GDQ doesn't have the time or resources to employ/contract staff (there are taxes involved in this). Contracted staff fees tread into personal finance territory. At the most, I would feel comfortable revealing their contracted hours with their permission. Legally, they are allowed to discuss their fee, but once again, that would be with their own approval, and not mine.

Games Done Quick is an LLC (the name is technically Games Done Quick LLC), or a limited liability company. As Cool Matty said, it's a private company, not a nonprofit, and as such posting all of the financial information is not obligated. However, I did post the SGDQ expenses and current funds afterward in this thread. There have been a few expenses since then (mostly server costs), so the amount is not 100% up to date, but it's close. I plan on posting these a month or two after each GDQ.

GDQ doesn't receive donations, the registration fees go toward maintenance, such as server costs, equipment, storage, legal fees (trademarks, liability, etc.), and soon to be business insurance, among other things.

I think one point that people are confused about are donations, and I just want to say that event registrations are not donations to PCF. The donations occur while the event is streamed, they go into PCF's Paypal, and no one except PCF employees touch the funds (this also applies to DWB during SGDQ). As has been said in the past, the charity receives 100% of the donations. Games Done Quick does not take a portion of the money that is donated during the event, nor does staff.

BTW, percentage-based fundraising (as in being paid by taking a direct % of what is donated) is a big no-no in the fundraising world.

Edenal: I can reveal some estimated expenses and budget if you like, but as I said earlier, I'm not going to be posting what people are contracted for.

*Differences between an employee and contractor.

I was out at Chicagothon and I didn't get back until 3 am last night after driving, so that's why I haven't been active in this thread until now. I think people are confused about how the situation between PCF and GDQ (as a company) works.

PCF is a nonprofit, you can look up their [url=http://cullinanelaw.com/nonprofit-law-basics-does-our-nonprofit-have-to-file-tax-returns-or-an-annual-reporting-return-with-the-irs/]990[/url] (it's the equivalent of a tax form and it’s required by the IRS) on [url=http://foundationcenter.org/findfunders/990finder/]Foundation Center[/url], [url=http://guidestar.org/]Guidestar[/url], or on [url=http://preventcancer.org/who-we-are/financials-policies/irs-form-990/]PCF's website[/url]. The 2013 form isn't up because PCF's tax year ends in the middle of the year, and it will be a little while until 2013 is posted.

The 990 won't list the salaries of all of the employees (though it will list how much money is spent on employees), but it will list salaries of the officers, directors, and trustees (aka board members and president and vp), and 5 highest paid employees who are compensated over $100,000. It will also list contractors who have been paid more than $100,000 (spoilers, I won’t be on the 2013 form when it comes out).

Now you might be wondering about the staff for AGDQ 2015. The staff is actually contracted* by PCF (and DWB for SGDQ), and not through GDQ. This is convenient because GDQ doesn't have the time or resources to employ/contract staff (there are taxes involved in this). Contracted staff fees tread into personal finance territory.  At the most, I would feel comfortable revealing their contracted hours with their permission.  Legally, they are allowed to discuss their fee, but once again, that would be with their own approval, and not mine.

Games Done Quick is an LLC (the name is technically Games Done Quick LLC), or a limited liability company. As Cool Matty said, it's a private company, not a nonprofit, and as such posting all of the financial information is not obligated. However, I did post the SGDQ expenses and current funds afterward [url=https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/postsgdq_2014_budget.html]in this thread[/url]. There have been a few expenses since then (mostly server costs), so the amount is not 100% up to date, but it's close. I plan on posting these a month or two after each GDQ.

GDQ doesn't receive donations, the registration fees go toward maintenance, such as server costs, equipment, storage, legal fees (trademarks, liability, etc.), and soon to be business insurance, among other things.

I think one point that people are confused about are donations, and I just want to say that [b]event registrations are not donations to PCF[/b]. The donations occur while the event is streamed, they go into PCF's Paypal, and no one except PCF employees touch the funds (this also applies to DWB during SGDQ). As has been said in the past, [b]the charity receives 100% of the donations[/b]. Games Done Quick does not take a portion of the money that is donated during the event, nor does staff.

BTW, percentage-based fundraising (as in being paid by taking a direct % of what is donated) is a big no-no in the fundraising world.

Edenal: I can reveal some estimated expenses and budget if you like, but as I said earlier, I'm not going to be posting what people are contracted for.

*[url=http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/177992]Differences between an employee and contractor[/url].

Radix

2014-10-21 05:00:53 pm

I'm addicted to games

Nitpicker's corner: paypal receives a portion of donations.

Sorry, I had to.

mikwuyma

2014-10-21 05:03:03 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

haha, that is true, they take a portion and that will never be retrieved by PCF.

lurk

2014-10-21 05:07:39 pm

so the only money that GDQ as a business is pulling in are attendance fees and ad revenue? i'm assuming subs to the channel will still be donated towards the charity?

(i sincerely hope i did not come across as thinking you were doing percentage-based fundraising and taking a cut of donations, i doubt GDQ would have lasted this long if that was ever the case lol)

TheMG2

2014-10-21 05:13:55 pm

Quote from Radix:

Nitpicker's corner: paypal receives a portion of donations.

Sorry, I had to.

Time to use bitcoin instead.

Omnigamer

Edit history:

Omnigamer: 2014-10-21 05:20:06 pm

2014-10-21 05:16:14 pm

All the things

As far as I know, ad revenue and sub money from prior events was added in whole to the donation pool. EDIT: Corrected below.

mikwuyma

2014-10-21 05:19:43 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

lurk: For now, yes, we are also planning on some t-shirts sales with the yetee for shirts of past events. Yes, subs will go directly to the charity, which is how it worked for SGDQ 2014.

No, I didn't think you thought we were doing percentage-based fundraising, but I think some people were confused about that.

TheMG2: I know you're joking, but I think Humble Bundle accepts bitcoin so technically someone could donate through there with the bundle.

Omni: That is incorrect, ad revenue was for GDQ, subs were for the charity.

jymotion

Edit history:

jymotion: 2014-10-21 05:37:55 pm

jymotion: 2014-10-21 05:37:50 pm

2014-10-21 05:37:36 pm

Quote from mikwuyma:

The donations occur while the event is streamed, they go into PCF's Paypal, and no one except PCF employees touch the funds (this also applies to DWB during SGDQ). As has been said in the past, the charity receives 100% of the donations. Games Done Quick does not take a portion of the money that is donated during the event, nor does staff..

That's all true and I won't argue it. I think the beef people have with it is the fact that at some point (before or after the event), an undisclosed amount of money is being transferred from the charity to the GDQ staff. Whether the money comes directly from GDQ donations or is supplied from other donations isn't entirely relevant - the point is that it doesn't go towards the cause. The existence of a contract between the two parties is reasonable, considering the amount of donations the event bring in, but if PCF is paying $400k to receive the ~$1M, that's a lot less money going towards the cause than if they are paying $100k.

Whether y'all disclose that amount is up to you guys, but let's not hide behind semantics of where specifically the money is coming from.

[quote="mikwuyma"]The donations occur while the event is streamed, they go into PCF's Paypal, and no one except PCF employees touch the funds (this also applies to DWB during SGDQ). As has been said in the past, [b]the charity receives 100% of the donations[/b]. Games Done Quick does not take a portion of the money that is donated during the event, nor does staff..
[/quote]
That's all true and I won't argue it. I think the beef people have with it is the fact that at some point (before or after the event), an undisclosed amount of money is being transferred from the charity to the GDQ staff. Whether the money comes directly from GDQ donations or is supplied from other donations isn't entirely relevant - the point is that it doesn't go towards the cause. The existence of a contract between the two parties is reasonable, considering the amount of donations the event bring in, but if PCF is paying $400k to receive the ~$1M, that's a lot less money going towards the cause than if they are paying $100k.

Whether y'all disclose that amount is up to you guys, but let's not hide behind semantics of where specifically the money is coming from.

Sir VG

2014-10-21 05:41:22 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Quote from jymotion:

Quote from mikwuyma:

The donations occur while the event is streamed, they go into PCF's Paypal, and no one except PCF employees touch the funds (this also applies to DWB during SGDQ). As has been said in the past, the charity receives 100% of the donations. Games Done Quick does not take a portion of the money that is donated during the event, nor does staff..

That's all true and I won't argue it. I think the beef people have with it is the fact that at some point (before or after the event), an undisclosed amount of money is being transferred from the charity to the GDQ staff. Whether the money comes directly from GDQ donations or is supplied from other donations isn't entirely relevant - the point is that it doesn't go towards the cause. The existence of a contract between the two parties is reasonable, considering the amount of donations the event bring in, but if PCF is paying $400k to receive the ~$1M, that's a lot less money going towards the cause than if they are paying $100k.

Whether y'all disclose that amount is up to you guys, but let's not hide behind semantics of where specifically the money is coming from.

There's a difference between money going to the cause and money going to the charity. Donations here go to the charity. Consider that them paying staff members to run events like this an investment. Without that investment, they couldn't get as much donations for what they do.

[quote="jymotion"][quote="mikwuyma"]The donations occur while the event is streamed, they go into PCF's Paypal, and no one except PCF employees touch the funds (this also applies to DWB during SGDQ). As has been said in the past, [b]the charity receives 100% of the donations[/b]. Games Done Quick does not take a portion of the money that is donated during the event, nor does staff..
[/quote]
That's all true and I won't argue it. I think the beef people have with it is the fact that at some point (before or after the event), an undisclosed amount of money is being transferred from the charity to the GDQ staff. Whether the money comes directly from GDQ donations or is supplied from other donations isn't entirely relevant - the point is that it doesn't go towards the cause. The existence of a contract between the two parties is reasonable, considering the amount of donations the event bring in, but if PCF is paying $400k to receive the ~$1M, that's a lot less money going towards the cause than if they are paying $100k.

Whether y'all disclose that amount is up to you guys, but let's not hide behind semantics of where specifically the money is coming from.[/quote]

There's a difference between money going to the cause and money going to the charity. Donations here go to the charity. Consider that them paying staff members to run events like this an investment. Without that investment, they couldn't get as much donations for what they do.

jymotion

Edit history:

jymotion: 2014-10-21 05:44:35 pm

jymotion: 2014-10-21 05:44:24 pm

2014-10-21 05:43:12 pm

Quote from Sir VG:

There's a difference between money going to the cause and money going to the charity. Donations here go to the charity. Consider that them paying staff members to run events like this an investment. Without that investment, they couldn't get as much donations for what they do.

Yeah, I'm aware. Like I said, the existence of a contract between the two parties makes sense.
People are just curious how big that investment is.

z1mb0bw4y

Edit history:

z1mb0bw4y: 2014-10-21 05:51:20 pm

2014-10-21 05:49:13 pm

Gets the cake.

Quote from jymotion:

Quote from Sir VG:

There's a difference between money going to the cause and money going to the charity. Donations here go to the charity. Consider that them paying staff members to run events like this an investment. Without that investment, they couldn't get as much donations for what they do.

Yeah, I'm aware. Like I said, the existence of a contract between the two parties makes sense.
People are just curious how big that investment is.

And people can determine how big that investment is from PCF's financial information. If they are looking for specific numbers that the GDQ staff members are being paid, then they have absolutely zero right to know those numbers and that has been said in at least 4 different very polite ways.

Darkwing Duck

2014-10-21 05:51:11 pm

Highly Evolved

Quote from jymotion:

Quote from Sir VG:

There's a difference between money going to the cause and money going to the charity. Donations here go to the charity. Consider that them paying staff members to run events like this an investment. Without that investment, they couldn't get as much donations for what they do.

Yeah, I'm aware. Like I said, the existence of a contract between the two parties makes sense.
People are just curious how big that investment is.

If you looked at the link I provided last page, you can see how PCF overall spends on fundraising. As total, 76.7% of money raised goes to the mission PCF has. 13.8% of their budget goes to fundraising expenses. PCF spends 12 cents to raise one dollar. All these numbers appear to be, on a 10 point scale, in the 7-8 range for charity in general.

jape

2014-10-21 05:51:17 pm

Thank you for the post, Mike. Despite not posting in the previous conversation, it managed to answer a question of mine (Registration fees), and for that, I appreciate it. Also, what is your favorite food?

mikwuyma

Edit history:

mikwuyma: 2014-10-21 06:09:42 pm

2014-10-21 06:09:20 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

jymotion: The budget for PCF paying off event expenses, equipment reimbursements, and staff fees combined fall within the 1:7 fundraising ratio (one dollar invested for every 7 dollars raised), which is generally considered a good fundraising ratio.

jape: Probably Thai or Vietnamese food. I can always go for a good bowl of floating market noodle soup or pho.

jymotion

2014-10-21 06:14:54 pm

Quote from mikwuyma:

jymotion: The budget for PCF paying off event expenses, equipment reimbursements, and staff fees combined fall within the 1:7 fundraising ratio (one dollar invested for every 7 dollars raised), which is generally considered a good fundraising ratio.

Thanks.