Wonderboy III: Dragon's Trap

2006-01-06 07:51:08 pm

dinosaur from the past

There's a shop hovering in the air way above Lion-Man's castle that you can only get to with Hawk-Man that sells it, and the only time you can be Hawk-Man in that area is right after beating the dungeon (barring the Tas sword, of course).

#endgame

2006-01-06 11:25:28 pm

ZZT > *

The Hades armor seems to be like the dragon mail in that case - it's in a shop but sometimes dropped by an enemy.

I remember reading in the manual that a certain armor would increase the chance of a heart drop, but I never worked out that it was the Prince armor.

On the master system version, the Hades armor alone would cause a full heal when you ran out of hearts (destroying the armor in the process, but it's bugged and lets you refill ad infinitum), but on the game gear, you needed the hades armor and the heavenly shield equipped at the same time for the effect. I don't know if it's bugged or not.

Creuil MS6

2006-01-07 01:22:20 am

Heaven or Hell! Let's Rock!

someone knows where is the final boss hidden door on game gear version?
on master system version i know where it is
but on ggversion i dont find it :wallbash:

SXL

2006-03-20 11:19:46 am

any update #endgame ? you started running the game almost 6 months ago, how are things going ? are you still working on it ? are you still alive ? :/

sorry for the thread necromancy ;__;

#endgame

Edit history:

#endgame: 2006-09-19 01:03:05 pm

2006-09-19 01:01:54 pm

ZZT > *

@Mods: I'm sorry if this is a bit on the extreme side of necromancy, but I thought it was better than replicating an existing thread.

I'm not dead. I just got squashed by Uni for a while.

I have worked out some semblance of a route for my run. This route should let me get by with only the large drops from the dragons and treasure rooms, so I only stop to pick up charm stones (because I've been burned (heh) by not having the 50 points required to buy the dragon mail (the lava proof armour)) and a couple of tornadoes (for heading into the desert):
1. Collect at least 59 gold from the Meka dragon (for mithril sword + armour).
2. Escape from the Meka dragon's castle.
3. Go to the seaside route, collect the key (faster to do this before getting the mithril stuff and the heart)
4. Go back to town. Get mithril sword+armour).
5. Go up the tower and to the desert.
6. Head left, and use a tornado on the first fire-ant-lion and go underwater (less stuff to avoid).
7. Head up at the 3rd (is it?) spring block to come out past the blue fire-ant-lion.
8. Go over the pyramid and get the heart.
9. Go into the pyramid, fill up at the hospital if necessary and go into the dungeon.
10. Complete the dungeon, remember to get the chest right before the dragon's room.
11. Kill the Mummy Dragon.
12. As mouse man, take the small passage back to town. Don't bother with the dancing shield.
13. Head left towards the jungle.
14. At the room with the 3 red sparks, collect the chest from the secret room.
15. Buy the shogun sword + armor
16. Head left through the jungle. Skeletons usually drop good gold and I stop for those, but not much else.
17. Grab the heart from the water at the end then go to the next dungeon.
18. Kill the Dragon Zombie.
19. Grab the key from the red will-o-the-wisp on the way down. (This saves a lot of time later, getting into the Meka Dragon's castle).
20. Return to town, go back up the tower to the desert, head right.
21. Get the thunder saber (sic).
22. Return to town as mouse man.
23. Get the magical saber (sic).
24. Switch to piranha man, get the lucky sword and samurai armour.
25. Head right over the shop that sells the lucky sword and collect the chest.
26. Return to town, switch back to mouse-man.
27. Go down the well and head along lion-man's path.
28. Buy the tasmanian sword along the way.
29. At the enterance to the Damiyo Dragon's castle, use the sword to switch straight to hawk-man.
30. Fly up and return to town.
31. (By now, I should have >2000 gold, so I will have enough to buy the Legendary shield.) Head back to the Meka Dragon's dungeon.
32. Get Legendary sword and huge gold chest.
33. Get Legendary armour from cyclops.
34. Buy Legendary shield from shop.
35. Buy a key on the way back to town. (Do I have enough charm points here? I might have to collect a key from the seaside. At least I can fly over everything and access the secret 'return' door, since I have the thunder saber (sic))
36. In either case, head to the Vampier (sic) Dragon's castle.
37. Switch back to human before the fight for a much faster fight and shorter ending cutscene.

It's important to switch back to the lucky sword when raiding chests, since you get significantly more money.

In other news, I finally bought the bits for my custom controller and I've been planning out how to drill the holes.

@Mods: I'm sorry if this is a bit on the extreme side of necromancy, but I thought it was better than replicating an existing thread.

I'm not dead. I just got squashed by Uni for a while.

I have worked out some semblance of a route for my run. This route should let me get by with only the large drops from the dragons and treasure rooms, so I only stop to pick up charm stones (because I've been burned (heh) by not having the 50 points required to buy the dragon mail (the lava proof armour)) and a couple of tornadoes (for heading into the desert):
1. Collect at least 59 gold from the Meka dragon (for mithril sword + armour).
2. Escape from the Meka dragon's castle.
3. Go to the seaside route, collect the key (faster to do this before getting the mithril stuff and the heart)
4. Go back to town. Get mithril sword+armour).
5. Go up the tower and to the desert.
6. Head left, and use a tornado on the first fire-ant-lion and go underwater (less stuff to avoid).
7. Head up at the 3rd (is it?) spring block to come out past the blue fire-ant-lion.
8. Go over the pyramid and get the heart.
9. Go into the pyramid, fill up at the hospital if necessary and go into the dungeon.
10. Complete the dungeon, remember to get the chest right before the dragon's room.
11. Kill the Mummy Dragon.
12. As mouse man, take the small passage back to town. Don't bother with the dancing shield.
13. Head left towards the jungle.
14. At the room with the 3 red sparks, collect the chest from the secret room.
15. Buy the shogun sword + armor
16. Head left through the jungle. Skeletons usually drop good gold and I stop for those, but not much else.
17. Grab the heart from the water at the end then go to the next dungeon.
18. Kill the Dragon Zombie.
19. Grab the key from the red will-o-the-wisp on the way down. (This saves a lot of time later, getting into the Meka Dragon's castle).
20. Return to town, go back up the tower to the desert, head right.
21. Get the thunder saber (sic).
22. Return to town as mouse man.
23. Get the magical saber (sic).
24. Switch to piranha man, get the lucky sword and samurai armour.
25. Head right over the shop that sells the lucky sword and collect the chest.
26. Return to town, switch back to mouse-man.
27. Go down the well and head along lion-man's path.
28. Buy the tasmanian sword along the way.
29. At the enterance to the Damiyo Dragon's castle, use the sword to switch straight to hawk-man.
30. Fly up and return to town.
31. (By now, I should have >2000 gold, so I will have enough to buy the Legendary shield.) Head back to the Meka Dragon's dungeon.
32. Get Legendary sword and huge gold chest.
33. Get Legendary armour from cyclops.
34. Buy Legendary shield from shop.
35. Buy a key on the way back to town. (Do I have enough charm points here? I might have to collect a key from the seaside. At least I can fly over everything and access the secret 'return' door, since I have the thunder saber (sic))
36. In either case, head to the Vampier (sic) Dragon's castle.
37. Switch back to human before the fight for a much faster fight and shorter ending cutscene.

It's important to switch back to the lucky sword when raiding chests, since you get significantly more money.

In other news, I finally bought the bits for my custom controller and I've been planning out how to drill the holes.

SXL

2006-09-21 04:56:38 pm

I cannot comment your path, but I'm happy to learn this speedrun project is still alive. do you plan to record it and submit it within the end of the year ?

#endgame

2006-09-22 11:13:33 am

ZZT > *

Hopefully, since I'm going on an exchange to England at the start of next year, and won't have my Master System. :-/

Konnan

2006-09-22 01:21:42 pm

Boards of Canada!

I'd say, just go for it. After all this work you put in route optimalisation it would be a shame if you don't do a run (any time soon).

#endgame

Edit history:

#endgame: 2006-09-28 05:48:21 am

2006-09-28 05:29:05 am

ZZT > *

I think I'll take your advice Konnan. I did a dry run today. The start was good and the drops were just about perfect. I noticed a couple of optimisations to the route (like collecting a chest as hawk-man when heading back to the castle rather than as pirahna-man), but I ran into a severe lack of cash towards the end of the run.

When going to collect the Tasmanian Sword, I think I'll go forward a couple of rooms to grab a chest, then go back and get the Tasmanian Sword. Going at full speed, I don't stop for enough gold the first time I see that room.

Also, when collecting the Legendary Sword, there's a corridor in the Meka Dragon's castle I'll have to run a few times go get the 2000+ gold I need to buy the legendary shield. Or else I'll get destroyed in the Vampier dragon's castle.

I also have a couple of ideas to cut down the boss fight time - Use arrows on the Mummy Dragon and fireballs on the Dragon Zombie. I can chain hits on the Mega Dragon and destroy him impressively quickly, and for the Vampier Dragon I'm back to human.

My time? 59:10. And to think I was originally going to be happy with sub-hour.

EDIT:

Ok, I can chain hits on the Mummy Dragon with arrows, this looks promising, but I'm not going out of my way to collect more than the amount that drops as I progress on the normal route.

The Dragon Zombie is impossible to chain hits against, which is annoying. He takes 25 hits to kill (with the gear I can afford) and it's amazingly easy to hurt yourself because of the size (or lack thereof) of mouse-man's weapon.

I noticed that arrows work quite well against the vampier dragon, so I think I'll be stockpiling them throughout the game.

I also collect 3 tornadoes along the way:
1. To kill the red roper as lizard-man, as you head back from the seaside after collecting the first key.
2. To kill the first red fire-ant-lion as you head into the desert as lizard-man (it's faster to fall down the hole it leaves, altough I can just suck up the damage here).
3. To kill the blue fire-ant-lion as pirahna-man, heading through the lava pits to collect the thunder saber.

I thought I grabbed 4. Maybe I did, but I can't remember where I used the other one.

I think I'll take your advice Konnan. I did a dry run today. The start was good and the drops were just about perfect. I noticed a couple of optimisations to the route (like collecting a chest as hawk-man when heading back to the castle rather than as pirahna-man), but I ran into a severe lack of cash towards the end of the run.

When going to collect the Tasmanian Sword, I think I'll go forward a couple of rooms to grab a chest, then go back and get the Tasmanian Sword. Going at full speed, I don't stop for enough gold the first time I see that room.

Also, when collecting the Legendary Sword, there's a corridor in the Meka Dragon's castle I'll have to run a few times go get the 2000+ gold I need to buy the legendary shield. Or else I'll get destroyed in the Vampier dragon's castle.

I also have a couple of ideas to cut down the boss fight time - Use arrows on the Mummy Dragon and fireballs on the Dragon Zombie. I can chain hits on the Mega Dragon and destroy him impressively quickly, and for the Vampier Dragon I'm back to human.

My time? 59:10. And to think I was originally going to be happy with sub-hour.

EDIT:

Ok, I can chain hits on the Mummy Dragon with arrows, this looks promising, but I'm not going out of my way to collect more than the amount that drops as I progress on the normal route.

The Dragon Zombie is impossible to chain hits against, which is annoying. He takes 25 hits to kill (with the gear I can afford) and it's amazingly easy to hurt yourself because of the size (or lack thereof) of mouse-man's weapon.

I noticed that arrows work quite well against the vampier dragon, so I think I'll be stockpiling them throughout the game.

I also collect 3 tornadoes along the way:
1. To kill the red roper as lizard-man, as you head back from the seaside after collecting the first key.
2. To kill the first red fire-ant-lion as you head into the desert as lizard-man (it's faster to fall down the hole it leaves, altough I can just suck up the damage here).
3. To kill the blue fire-ant-lion as pirahna-man, heading through the lava pits to collect the thunder saber.

I thought I grabbed 4. Maybe I did, but I can't remember where I used the other one.

Konnan

2006-09-28 08:08:56 am

Boards of Canada!

Damn, I don't know much of this game unfortunately, maybe I should really look into it. The fact you keep discovering new tricks, routes and stuff looks really promising.

By the way, do you use a sms emulator to practice your runs?

#endgame

2006-09-28 08:17:54 am

ZZT > *

Quote:

Damn, I don't know much of this game unfortunately, maybe I should really look into it. The fact you keep discovering new tricks, routes and stuff looks really promising.

By the way, do you use a sms emulator to practice your runs?

I'd appreciate another set of eyes to look over the route. I'll put up a revised route early next week (I'm going away tomorrow for a few days). I'll make it a little bit easier to read next time, too!

I do all my practicing on a real Master System II. (The one with Alex Kidd built in). For such an old console, the visual quality's pretty good. Sadly, the SMS II only has RF out and I'm not game to try an mod an RCA output onto it.

Konnan

Edit history:

Konnan: 2006-09-28 08:34:23 am

2006-09-28 08:33:34 am

Boards of Canada!

Perhaps you should try an emulator like FreezeSMS. You can save and load the game at any point in the game. This way you can practice specific parts as much as you want without having to start all the way from the beginning every time.

I can imagine you know the begin part of the game inside-out, but lack enough experience in the later stages.

I used an emulator for my speedruns and I rapidly found new tricks/routes by saving and loading (well, more loading actually :P) continuously. In fact, I did the Alex Kidd speedrun in a matter of 2 weeks only.

#endgame

2006-09-28 10:01:58 pm

ZZT > *

I had a play around with FreezeSMS this morning, and it feels wierd playing with the keyboard. I have a joypad that I tried first, but I could feel a real input lag that was throwing me off.

I also tried to record a movie with GameCam, and that really didn't work. It refused to recognise the gamecam key combinations, so I guess you'll have to wait until next week, since I'm heading out of town soon.

SXL

2006-09-28 11:09:51 pm

as for sms emulation, Meka (hi Bock !) has the best compatibility list so far, has savestates and joypads, and is very stable (don't know about the lag after input though). maybe you could try it if you don't like freezesms.

Konnan

2006-09-29 06:05:55 am

Boards of Canada!

You shouldn't speedrun of the emulator as they're no valid runs, freezeSMS tends to run faster then the console as well.

It's just good for practicing specific gameparts... cant say how important the right controls are to find new tricks or faster routes though as I don't know the game.

Emulator = practicing the game inside out with save/load.
SMS = combining all found elements of the practice sessions into 1 game.

#endgame

2006-10-01 02:57:29 am

ZZT > *

I just found something really impressive while looking for a definite way to get a 5th charm stone (currently, I get 4 from a chest and I have to rely on an enemy to drop one somewhere before I get to the Dragon Mail shop. If I don't get that extra stone, the run is ruined).

Anyway, equipping the Magical Saber, Knight Shield, Goblin Mail and Fireballs lets you create stone blocks anywhere. What remains to be seen is if I can use this. The Goblin Mail is really cheap, the Magical Saber is required to finish the game, which leaves the Knight Shield, but I don't remember how expensive it is or what armour I need to be able to buy it.

#endgame

2006-10-01 05:53:40 am

ZZT > *

The knight shield requires 1140 gold, 109 charm and you can collect it as mouse-man (although I could switch to Lion-Man for the high charm once I get the tasmanian sword - but the run's almost over then).

Mouse Man has 40 charm and with the Samurai Armor (47 CP) (which is what I'd have after getting the Magical Saber) with 5 charm stones (which I'll have because I need them to get the dragon mail) gives 40+47+5=92 charm. I've checked the chests that are available to me, and all up I still won't have enough and it's a big backtrack anyway, so using the magical saber to create blocks is not at all useful for me.

Konnan

2006-10-02 03:01:50 pm

Boards of Canada!

Good that you keep improving your run ;D.

Maybe these worldmaps are of any help: http://www.smspower.org/maxim/maps/wb3.html

#endgame

Edit history:

#endgame: 2006-10-03 12:00:33 am

2006-10-02 11:52:52 pm

ZZT > *

Thanks Konnan.

I think I'm up to the point where I just want to finish this, but there's one more thing I want to get right before I record. There's a damage boost at the end of the prologue, where the blocks fall down to create a stair. Once I work out how to reliably pull it off, I'll do a few dry runs and then start recording.

EDIT: Konnan, looks like your browsing around has been found out! http://www.smspower.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9194

Konnan

2006-10-03 04:52:56 pm

Boards of Canada!

Oh cool :). I only had some chat with a guy who hosts a Alex Kidd site (http://shellcore.smspower.org/) and he gave me a link to the worldmaps. So I don't know how I contributed to the discovery of this topic ;).

Looks like you can get more detailed information about the game with them. Nice :).

#endgame

2006-11-20 10:48:51 pm

ZZT > *

Ok, status update:

Exams are finished and I'm working on this again. I can now do the damage boost in the meka dragon's castle almost every time (and if I don't, I do the other one which looks slightly less clever but is <1 second slower).

I raid the chest in the dragon zombie's castle now, so I don't have to slow down waiting for tornadoes to drop. I use a lot more now because I've discovered how to make the dragon mail drop (tornado every blue fire-ant-lion in the lava stage), rather than having to buy it from the shop. This saves 300 gold (iirc), and I need just about all I can get towards the end.

If I find a boomerang (and I usually do), I can grab good drops (i.e., bags of money and arrows) with it instead of having to slow down quite as much. This is a big improvement: previously I was torn between moving as fast as possible and slowing down so I didn't have to backtrack for good drops.

The overall route is basically the same as the one I posted earlier.

SXL

2006-11-21 12:27:35 am

glad to hear you're still alive and kickin' Wink

what's your raw time estimation for a speedrun ? did you record a full one yet ?

#endgame

2006-11-21 08:31:15 am

ZZT > *

My most recent full run was sub-hour, and I haven't taped anything yet.

Konnan

2006-11-21 09:11:44 am

Boards of Canada!

Hey #endgame! Good you're here again. How did your exams go?

I've send my SMS runs in about 3 or 4 weeks ago, so I hope they get up this year.

#endgame

Edit history:

#endgame: 2006-11-26 06:56:19 am

2006-11-26 02:35:12 am

ZZT > *

Quote:

Hey #endgame! Good you're here again. How did your exams go?

They went fairly well. The marks came back today: a little worse than what I'd hoped for, but I've had a bit of a dud year academically. Better luck next time.

Back to the topic: I had planned to start recording today, however after tuning the SMS into the VCR I noticed horrible bleeding and distortion. I'm seriously considering performing this mod: http://web.archive.org/web/20051105075308/http://www.mikeg2.freeserve.co.uk/masterful/rgb.html

Time to go stock up on parts...

EDIT: Hey look at this! 2 pretty neat glitches.
http://www.smspower.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=42603#42603
The first one doesn't look too useful: I can't switch back to Human until I get the Tasmanian sword (which is down the well described. If I can reliably pull off the second glitch (which lets pirahna-man fly), I can go back to the mecha dragon's castle early and hopefully breeze through the rest of the game with endgame equipment.

EDIT 2: The composite video mod is a huge success! Improvement is amazing. Haven't had a chance to capture though - all the VCRs are booked.

EDIT 3: I should point out that I was (and still am) too scared to solder directly onto the legs of an IC. I bought some probes (kind of like the things you find at the end of a CRO probe) and used those to hook the appropriate parts of the console's innards.

[quote]Hey #endgame! Good you're here again. How did your exams go?[/quote]

They went fairly well. The marks came back today: a little worse than what I'd hoped for, but I've had a bit of a dud year academically. Better luck next time.

Back to the topic: I had planned to start recording today, however after tuning the SMS into the VCR I noticed horrible bleeding and distortion. I'm seriously considering performing this mod: http://web.archive.org/web/20051105075308/http://www.mikeg2.freeserve.co.uk/masterful/rgb.html

Time to go stock up on parts...

EDIT: Hey look at this! 2 pretty neat glitches.
http://www.smspower.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=42603#42603
The first one doesn't look too useful: I can't switch back to Human until I get the Tasmanian sword (which is down the well described. If I can reliably pull off the second glitch (which lets pirahna-man fly), I can go back to the mecha dragon's castle early and hopefully breeze through the rest of the game with endgame equipment.

EDIT 2: The composite video mod is a huge success! Improvement is amazing. Haven't had a chance to capture though - all the VCRs are booked.

EDIT 3: I should point out that I was (and still am) too scared to solder directly onto the legs of an IC. I bought some probes (kind of like the things you find at the end of a CRO probe) and used those to hook the appropriate parts of the console's innards.