Valkyria Chronicles

2009-02-04 03:01:35 pm

For those who are not familiar, Valkyria Chronicles is a PS3 SRPG that came out in November 2008 and didn’t sell very well in North America. The gameplay is live action third-person perspective instead of the traditional SRPG passive team-based / grid-based action. There are 23 mission in total which typically vary between Capture the enemy flag, Kill the enemy commander or even simply Get from point A to point B. A casual playthrough usually necessitate roughly 30 hours or more to complete but the cut scenes take a big chunk of that because there’s a lot of story to Valkyria Chronicles. Thankfully, cut scenes can be skipped. That being said, before I go any further, would there be any interest? I don’t want the fruits of my efforts to be stuck in purgatory forever, though it’s a new game so I doubt it... but you never know!

I’ve been playing this game pretty much non-stop since it came out. It's been a while since I enjoyed a game this much. I’ve done a first pass playing casually and then a second pass exploring the speed run possibilities but I haven’t really paid very close attention to the details such as XP, every unit potentials possibility, acquired weapons stats, etc. I put it on a YouTube playlist for initial discussion purposes. If I time the length of my videos for each mission, there’s under 3 hours of actual gameplay but that doesn’t include all the menu scrolling involved which is something I plan to optimize in this next playthrough. I’d appreciate any criticism on my strategies so far. Chapter 4, 5 and 6 are the weakest battles at this time and I plan to redo them completly, especially 4. When I recorded those, I hadn't noticed yet how powerful the "Defense Boost" order was. Tongue

At first I was considering maybe going a single segment run but considering the amount of luck manipulation needed in the later missions (mission 14, 17 and 18-2 especially), SS would only be possible if the strats of the later chapters would be altered to be more conservative and I’m not a big fan of that.

I’ll leave this open like this before going into specific detail about the mathematics of Orders and Unit Potentials and how it affects each mission. Please leave me all the feedback you have!

Thread title:

For those who are not familiar, Valkyria Chronicles is a PS3 SRPG that came out in November 2008 and didn’t sell very well in North America. The gameplay is live action third-person perspective instead of the traditional SRPG passive team-based / grid-based action. There are 23 mission in total which typically vary between [i]Capture the enemy flag[/i], [i]Kill the enemy commander[/i] or even simply [i]Get from point A to point B[/i]. A casual playthrough usually necessitate roughly 30 hours or more to complete but the cut scenes take a big chunk of that because there’s a lot of story to Valkyria Chronicles. Thankfully, cut scenes can be skipped. That being said, before I go any further, would there be any interest? I don’t want the fruits of my efforts to be stuck in purgatory forever, though it’s a new game so I doubt it... but you never know!

I’ve been playing this game pretty much non-stop since it came out. It's been a while since I enjoyed a game this much. I’ve done a first pass playing casually and then a second pass exploring the speed run possibilities but I haven’t really paid very close attention to the details such as XP, every unit potentials possibility, acquired weapons stats, etc. I put it on a [url=http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=57C9714488CAFDA6]YouTube playlist[/url] for initial discussion purposes. If I time the length of my videos for each mission, there’s under 3 hours of actual gameplay but that doesn’t include all the menu scrolling involved which is something I plan to optimize in this next playthrough. I’d appreciate any criticism on my strategies so far. Chapter 4, 5 and 6 are the weakest battles at this time and I plan to redo them completly, especially 4. When I recorded those, I hadn't noticed yet how powerful the "Defense Boost" order was. :P

At first I was considering maybe going a single segment run but considering the amount of luck manipulation needed in the later missions (mission 14, 17 and 18-2 especially), SS would only be possible if the strats of the later chapters would be altered to be more conservative and I’m not a big fan of that.

I’ll leave this open like this before going into specific detail about the mathematics of Orders and Unit Potentials and how it affects each mission. Please leave me all the feedback you have!

trihex

Edit history:

trihex: 2009-02-04 10:41:15 pm

2009-02-04 06:13:32 pm

Yoshi's eggs are at my mercy!

I've played the demo a lot and have enjoyed it enough to consider purchasing it, but unfortunately never got around to it. I couldn't be verifyer material, but I'll definitely be there to watch the speedrun the first day it's up! Good luck and support! Smiley

Renokye

2009-02-04 11:42:59 pm

Touhou anyone? :D

Oooo! This shall be interesting to watch if it is done! I'd like to see it!
I'm not sure if I read your post right when you slightly touched on Unit Potentials, so I'll go ahead and say this: My boyfriend is a big Completist, so he has unlocked all of the Potentials for every unit. If you'd like, I can ask him to boot up the game again so I can write down all of the Potentials and descriptions?

ShadowLaguna

2009-02-05 04:00:46 am

THE GAME!!

Holy shit! Yes! Valkyria Chronicles is awesome, and I would kill to see a run.

Single-Segment would be way too hard in my opinion, especially with Chapters like 7 and 17. Although, would you be doing a regular run, or a New Game Plus?

TJazZ

2009-02-05 04:58:33 am

Thanks everyone!

Renokey, it probably won't be necessary to do all of that for me, though that's very kind of you. There seems to be a pretty accurate source of information at GameFAQs, however there's still some testing that would be very helpful, for example, the Snipers upon reaching level 15 obtain "Penetrate" and at level 18 (I think it's 18) they obtain "Attack Weak Spot". "Penetrate" is defined as (something along the lines of...) damage an enemy while disregarding it's defence. In practical terms, when giving that order to a Lancer, it only takes him 4 shots to kill the Marmota (which normally has incredible defence) in 18-1. On the other hand, "Attack Weak Spot" is pretty self explanatory... but isn't it pretty much the same as "Penetrate" when you think about it? I want to know how they are different so I can figure out if new strategies could emerge that I wasn't aware of.

ShadowLaguna, NG+ would be like taking candy from a baby. You could just take one single scout and make it walk across the whole map in one move (because of the Double Movement potential + Defence Boost order combo) for at least the first 2/3 of the game. I'm doing a regular run. Besides, doesn't SDA require a regular run before a ng+ run anyway? And funny you mention the marathon that is Chapter 7, I managed a strategy that's both very fast and pretty fail safe (just follow the recipe!)

It's nice to know that people are interested! Smiley

Thanks everyone!

Renokey, it probably won't be necessary to do all of that for me, though that's very kind of you. There seems to be a pretty accurate source of information at GameFAQs, however there's still some testing that would be very helpful, for example, the Snipers upon reaching level 15 obtain "Penetrate" and at level 18 (I think it's 18) they obtain "Attack Weak Spot". "Penetrate" is defined as (something along the lines of...) damage an enemy while disregarding it's defence. In practical terms, when giving that order to a Lancer, it only takes him 4 shots to kill the Marmota (which normally has incredible defence) in 18-1. On the other hand, "Attack Weak Spot" is pretty self explanatory... but isn't it pretty much the same as "Penetrate" when you think about it? I want to know how they are different so I can figure out if new strategies could emerge that I wasn't aware of.

ShadowLaguna, NG+ would be like taking candy from a baby. You could just take one single scout and make it walk across the whole map in one move (because of the Double Movement potential + Defence Boost order combo) for at least the first 2/3 of the game. I'm doing a regular run. Besides, doesn't SDA require a regular run before a ng+ run anyway? And funny you mention the marathon that is Chapter 7, I managed [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPinMVTi6Cs]a strategy[/url] that's both very fast and pretty fail safe (just follow the recipe!)

It's nice to know that people are interested! :)

Garf666

2009-02-05 05:34:28 am

This would be an interresting run to watch^^

For the potentials and the orders, I suggest you to go and read the FAQs on Gamefaqs.com, these are very complete Wink

And for the strategies, I also suggest you to watch the videos of the guy named TheCockCrew on youtube, he has done an awesome job on new game to reach an A-rank on every mission, here's the link to his channel : http://www.youtube.com/user/TheCockCrew

This helped me a lot with the hardest mission.

Also, as this would be a speedrun, you should aim for an A-rank on every mission too because it is the one which requires the less turn to finish the mission...

Personnaly, I suggest leveling Scout as fast as possible, Lancer too (Hector is the best tank killer of all, except for the mission 18-1), Shocktrooper to level 11 to have the flamethrower (to kick Selvaria's ass in her human form - mission 17 I think), Sniper are not really usefull to level up as you can give them good weapon with good aiming, Engineer are quite useless in a speedrun as you don't really need any of their potential, except maybe Nadine with her Repair Up ability which can be very usefull on mission 16 (but I don't know if it's a level up potential or the secret one, should take a look)

As for the orders, I recommand Evade Boost, Defense Boost, Caution (Scout level 12), Awaken Potential (very usefull in the latest mission), Mortar Support (usefull in 2 or 3 mission I think) and Neutralize (against Selvaria at mission 17, it's very usefull :p )

That's all I can think about for now, if I find anything else usefull to tell you, I'll do it, be sure^^

And good luck for the run man Wink

PS : How many segment do you think you will do for the run ? Will you use the save during missions ?

This would be an interresting run to watch^^

For the potentials and the orders, I suggest you to go and read the FAQs on Gamefaqs.com, these are very complete ;)

And for the strategies, I also suggest you to watch the videos of the guy named TheCockCrew on youtube, he has done an awesome job on new game to reach an A-rank on every mission, here's the link to his channel : http://www.youtube.com/user/TheCockCrew

This helped me a lot with the hardest mission.

Also, as this would be a speedrun, you should aim for an A-rank on every mission too because it is the one which requires the less turn to finish the mission...

Personnaly, I suggest leveling Scout as fast as possible, Lancer too (Hector is the best tank killer of all, except for the mission 18-1), Shocktrooper to level 11 to have the flamethrower (to kick Selvaria's ass in her human form - mission 17 I think), Sniper are not really usefull to level up as you can give them good weapon with good aiming, Engineer are quite useless in a speedrun as you don't really need any of their potential, except maybe Nadine with her Repair Up ability which can be very usefull on mission 16 (but I don't know if it's a level up potential or the secret one, should take a look)

As for the orders, I recommand Evade Boost, Defense Boost, Caution (Scout level 12), Awaken Potential (very usefull in the latest mission), Mortar Support (usefull in 2 or 3 mission I think) and Neutralize (against Selvaria at mission 17, it's very usefull :p )

That's all I can think about for now, if I find anything else usefull to tell you, I'll do it, be sure^^

And good luck for the run man ;)

PS : How many segment do you think you will do for the run ? Will you use the save during missions ?

TJazZ

Edit history:

TJazZ: 2009-02-05 07:43:30 am

2009-02-05 07:30:48 am

Thanks. I’ve seen most of TheCockCrew’s videos. If you watch my videos, you’ll notice that pretty all my videos are already faster than his :P. Plus, he power leveled all his units to level 20 after on that exploitable chapter 12 skirmish so he had a lot more tools at his disposal than I did in the later chapters.

When I said I hadn’t studied the Orders and Potentials, I should have said that I haven’t studied them in depth. If you watch my videos, you’ll notice that I’ve used them quite extensively, especially in the later missions.

I was thinking of splitting segments depending on what orders I need during the next few battles. Like it or not, the menu scrolling is kinda slow in this game so I'd really only want to go level up the bare minimum of times. It takes a little number crunching but, from memory (I don’t have my pages with me right now), it would go something like this:

Segment 1:
Finish Prologue to Chapter 3.

Segment 2:
Get the engineers to level 3 for Defense Boost (order)
Probably get the Shocktroopers to level 5 for Attack Boost (order) too.
Finish Chapter 4 to Chapter 6

Segment 3:
Get the Lancers to Level 8 for Demolition Boost (order)
Finish Chapter 7 to Chapter 10-1

Segment 4:
Luck Manipulation to get Awaken Potential (order) from the old gentleman in the cemetery.
Get the scouts to level 14 for Resist Crossfire (potential)
Finish Chapter 10-2 to Chapter 12

After that, I’m not too sure how the EXP falls down but I can tell you that after chapter 12 I can afford to get the scouts to level 17 now for Double Movement (potential) which is major. After that all I can tell you is that:

Chapter 14: I need Lancers level 11 in chapter 14 for their 3rd potential
Chapter 15-2: I need Shocktroopers level 11 in Chapter 15-2 for Undodgable Shot (Vyse potential #3)
Chapter 17: I’m hoping I can get Snipers to level 15 to get “Penetrate” but worst case it’s going to be at 18-1.
Chapter 18-2: It would be nice to get the Shocktroopers to level 18 for Double Attack (Vyse potential #4) but I don't think it's possible.
Then it’s over. Smiley

What happened was that I overleveled my shocktroopers in the beggining of my second playthrough and I only realized this when it was way too late to restart so I was forced to do a or two skirmish (I don't remember :-X) to get other my other units to where they should have been. From then on, I kinda stopped keeping track.

Thanks. I’ve seen most of TheCockCrew’s videos. If you watch my videos, you’ll notice that pretty all my videos are already faster than his :P. Plus, he power leveled all his units to level 20 after on that exploitable chapter 12 skirmish so he had a lot more tools at his disposal than I did in the later chapters.

When I said I hadn’t studied the Orders and Potentials, I should have said that I haven’t studied them [i]in depth[/i]. If you watch my videos, you’ll notice that I’ve used them quite extensively, especially in the later missions.

I was thinking of splitting segments depending on what orders I need during the next few battles. Like it or not, the menu scrolling is kinda slow in this game so I'd really only want to go level up the bare minimum of times. It takes a little number crunching but, from memory (I don’t have my pages with me right now), it would go something like this:

[b]Segment 1:[/b]
Finish Prologue to Chapter 3.

[b]Segment 2:[/b]
Get the engineers to level 3 for Defense Boost (order)
Probably get the Shocktroopers to level 5 for Attack Boost (order) too.
Finish Chapter 4 to Chapter 6

[b]Segment 3:[/b]
Get the Lancers to Level 8 for Demolition Boost (order)
Finish Chapter 7 to Chapter 10-1

[b]Segment 4:[/b]
Luck Manipulation to get Awaken Potential (order) from the old gentleman in the cemetery. 
Get the scouts to level 14 for Resist Crossfire (potential)
Finish Chapter 10-2 to Chapter 12

After that, I’m not too sure how the EXP falls down but I can tell you that after chapter 12 I can afford to get the scouts to level 17 now for Double Movement (potential) which is major. After that all I can tell you is that:

Chapter 14: I need Lancers level 11 in chapter 14 for their 3rd potential 
Chapter 15-2: I need Shocktroopers level 11 in Chapter 15-2 for Undodgable Shot (Vyse potential #3)
Chapter 17: I’m hoping I can get Snipers to level 15 to get “Penetrate” but worst case it’s going to be at 18-1.
Chapter 18-2: It would be nice to get the Shocktroopers to level 18 for Double Attack (Vyse potential #4) but I don't think it's possible.
Then it’s over. :)

What happened was that I overleveled my shocktroopers in the beggining of my second playthrough and I only realized this when it was way too late to restart so I was forced to do a or two skirmish (I don't remember :-X) to get other my other units to where they should have been. From then on, I kinda stopped keeping track.

getter77

2009-02-05 08:50:58 am

100% runs=great to watch

I'd also be interested in a run of this as I heard it was a pretty nifty game. Best of luck with all the wrangling! 8)

Garf666

2009-02-05 11:46:54 am

TJazZ -> well, I see you've already studied every aspect of a speedrun's strategy, that's nice^^

Also, the segment you're planning to do are not too many, that's a good thing I think Smiley

Well then, I wish you best luck with all that stuff then, I hope seeing videos soon Wink

Oh, and, just something like that in my mind, what about doing every mission including extra mission from Ms. Ellet (can't remember the first name xD ) and skirmish on every difficulty available on a first playthrough ? It would be kind of harder and longer, but that may be interresting too Cheesy

VorpalEdge

2009-02-05 11:57:57 am

welcome to the machine

Quote from TJazZ:

Besides, doesn't SDA require a regular run before a ng+ run anyway?

Not anymore. That was an old rule Radix instituted solely to stop one single idiot from spamming the forums about 'cheated' ng+ runs, and it's no longer in effect.

I'll have more to say about the run itself once I get some food and watch all of these videos.

drkhades

2009-02-05 11:17:46 pm

tri-Ace 4evar!!!

I'm interested in seeing a run of this as well though I still need to finish the game :-[

ShadowLaguna

2009-02-06 09:03:17 pm

THE GAME!!

When I max out my classses and weapons (almost there!!), I could always do the NG+. Tongue

Though yes, I think that would be a bit too easy. Although NG+ 100% might be better to do.

VorpalEdge

2009-02-07 11:15:29 pm

welcome to the machine

Finally watched some of these, and I have some stuff to say. First, you can skip through the end-of-battle stats and the Player Phase/Enemy Phase banners. Tongue

Map-specific comments:

Ch. 2: Try to manipulate it so that the enemy scout who moves in the middle of turn 1 dies before he gets to throw a grenade. He was one shot away, I think. Also, can you really not one-shot the tank?
Ch. 4: The Youtube comments seem to have this covered.
Ch. 5: I know this seems really obvious, and therefore you've probably already tried it and discarded it as a viable idea, but maybe to avoid Nonnenkof you could continue along the back route to the base (back behind the anti-tank emplacement) and grenade the two shocktroopers up there? If you catch them by surprise and use ragnite to heal during your second movement phase you should be able to avoid having any damage on turn 2 (unless they're nastier than I remember). Also, again, I don't think you needed to kill one of the shocktroopers, but whatever, it would probably have killed you if you didn't kill it.
Ch. 6: Do you need to use two scouts? I think if you took a more roundabout route around the first shocktrooper and a more direct route to the second, you could finish the first turn with Alicia alone...
Ch. 7: Try moving your scout in the top of the map right up behind the Edelweiss and see if the machine guns still take potshots at it. Also, you can literally leave your scouts on top of the Batomys after grenading the reactors, and they get knocked off when it moves (without taking any damage). I don't know if the machine guns would later kill them, but it's worth consideration (and considering that Alicia got injured anyways...). Lastly, I don't think Demolition Boost has any effect on Lancers, armor-piercing shells, or things that already do good damage to tanks, so I think that was wasted time. Maybe try Attack Boost instead?

I'll watch the rest later.

Finally watched some of these, and I have some stuff to say.  First, you can skip through the end-of-battle stats and the Player Phase/Enemy Phase banners. :P

Map-specific comments:

Ch. 2:  Try to manipulate it so that the enemy scout who moves in the middle of turn 1 dies before he gets to throw a grenade.  He was one shot away, I think.  Also, can you really not one-shot the tank?
Ch. 4: The Youtube comments seem to have this covered.
Ch. 5:  I know this seems really obvious, and therefore you've probably already tried it and discarded it as a viable idea, but maybe to avoid Nonnenkof you could continue along the back route to the base (back behind the anti-tank emplacement) and grenade the two shocktroopers up there?  If you catch them by surprise and use ragnite to heal during your second movement phase you should be able to avoid having any damage on turn 2 (unless they're nastier than I remember).  Also, again, I don't think you needed to kill one of the shocktroopers, but whatever, it would probably have killed you if you didn't kill it.
Ch. 6: Do you need to use two scouts?  I think if you took a more roundabout route around the first shocktrooper and a more direct route to the second, you could finish the first turn with Alicia alone...
Ch. 7: Try moving your scout in the top of the map right up behind the Edelweiss and see if the machine guns still take potshots at it.  Also, you can literally leave your scouts on top of the Batomys after grenading the reactors, and they get knocked off when it moves (without taking any damage).  I don't know if the machine guns would later kill them, but it's worth consideration (and considering that Alicia got injured anyways...).  Lastly, I don't think Demolition Boost has any effect on Lancers, armor-piercing shells, or things that already do good damage to tanks, so I think that was wasted time.  Maybe try Attack Boost instead?

I'll watch the rest later.

TJazZ

Edit history:

TJazZ: 2009-02-09 03:25:48 pm

2009-02-09 10:47:28 am

Thanks VorpalEdge. I actually didn’t you could skip the player/enemy banners! I can’t believe I missing something so basic. Tongue

For 02, you are right and I will. Truth be told, that’s exactly what happened the first 2 or 3 times before I recorded but when I recorded he didn’t get killed so I just left it as is since I was only doing preliminary. As for killing the tank in 1 shot, I need to double check but I’m pretty sure it takes 2 shots. The only reason how I can see otherwise is, for some reason, I have ALWAYS missed the radiator on my first shot which would be at least 8 or 9 times. Next time I’m there, I’ll make 100% sure.

For 04, I think what I will do is take Largo and make him shoot the wall instead of using the tank since Largo can get there in 1 turn but not the tank. Then, I’ll follow what the youtuber said.

Chapter 5 and 6 will probably change completely because I didn’t use Defence Boost. I can only assume the Strategy is bound to change. And you are right, I have tried using the path behind the base in 05 but I have found that it took longer because you can’t just walk passed the two shocktroopers in the trail but with Defence Boost, it might open the door to this possibility.

I didn’t know that Demolition Boost didn’t work on Lancers/Tanks. I was almost certain that it did. I’ll look into this because it’s major. I see what you are saying about keeping the Scouts on the platform. The down side to that is the fact that if the scouts are left in plain sight after they are knocked off, the enemy will then take the time to attack them instead of ending their turn immediately later on. I estimated (but haven’t timed) that it would be faster to hide them. Alicia being killed was an accident (I was planning to get here behind the Edelweiss to hide her) but perhaps letting her get killed is faster than hiding. I’ll look into this closely when I get tho this chapter again.

I’m glad you are picky about all these details. I’m bound to miss a couple of small details like that along to way so it’s a big help and it keeps me honest. Smiley

:EDIT: fixed minor typos

Thanks VorpalEdge. I actually didn’t you could skip the player/enemy banners! I can’t believe I missing something so basic. :P

For 02, you are right and I will. Truth be told, that’s exactly what happened the first 2 or 3 times before I recorded but when I recorded he didn’t get killed so I just left it as is since I was only doing preliminary. As for killing the tank in 1 shot, I need to double check but I’m pretty sure it takes 2 shots. The only reason how I can see otherwise is, for some reason, I have ALWAYS missed the radiator on my first shot which would be at least 8 or 9 times. Next time I’m there, I’ll make 100% sure.

For 04, I think what I will do is take Largo and make him shoot the wall instead of using the tank since Largo can get there in 1 turn but not the tank. Then, I’ll follow what the youtuber said.

Chapter 5 and 6 will probably change completely because I didn’t use Defence Boost. I can only assume the Strategy is bound to change. And you are right, I have tried using the path behind the base in 05 but I have found that it took longer because you can’t just walk passed the two shocktroopers in the trail but with Defence Boost, it might open the door to this possibility.

I didn’t know that Demolition Boost didn’t work on Lancers/Tanks. I was almost certain that it did. I’ll look into this because it’s major. I see what you are saying about keeping the Scouts on the platform. The down side to that is the fact that if the scouts are left in plain sight after they are knocked off, the enemy will then take the time to attack them instead of ending their turn immediately later on. I estimated (but haven’t timed) that it would be faster to hide them. Alicia being killed was an accident (I was planning to get here behind the Edelweiss to hide her) but perhaps letting her get killed is faster than hiding. I’ll look into this closely when I get tho this chapter again.

I’m glad you are picky about all these details. I’m bound to miss a couple of small details like that along to way so it’s a big help and it keeps me honest. :)

:EDIT: fixed minor typos

VorpalEdge

Edit history:

VorpalEdge: 2009-02-10 10:34:30 am

2009-02-09 11:41:38 pm

welcome to the machine

Well, I'm pretty sure Demolition Boost doesn't have an effect on the Edelweiss. You could maybe put it off until Ch. 9 instead of 7, or perhaps even further if it turns out that it isn't strictly necessary in 9 too. Actually, if it's not necessary in 9, I would recommend getting Engineers to 3 for Defense Boost and then just maxing Scouts until they get Double Movement by like Ch. 10 or so.

Anyways, my connection is sucking right now and watching videos is taking way too long, but notes for a couple more chapters:

Ch. 8-1: Yeah, Welkin can definitely get there in 3 turns. Also, do you need to kill the scout? He seems... extraneous, somehow, as if he'd just ignore you if you didn't shoot him (I don't remember him being that close to the bridge anyways).

Ch. 8-2: Yeah, you definitely have to clear this mission in 1 turn. If Demolition Boost does turn out to be a waste, you could possibly have your scouts at level 14 by now for Resist Crossfire, as noted in the youtube comment. If not... well, I don't think you really need it, anyways.

Ch. 9: Try not moving Rosie at all on the first turn, so the car doesn't waste a few seconds shooting her after it moves. I can't remember if she'd get shot at too much on her approach next turn, though. And it's disappointing... if you had more two more CP, you could kill the car on the first turn, too. Sad

Also, maybe you could try Damage Boost instead of Demolition Boost, which would take up one less CP.. and perhaps that CP would let you get close enough to the car on the first turn to kill it? I doubt it would make any difference (unless you didn't bother to deploy either largo or alicia on the map, and have a second spare CP to use to move Rosie up), but...

Actually, try using Alicia + Demolition Boost too. The car'd probably kill her too quickly 9 times out of 10, but...

Ch. 10-1: Can you actually hit the enemy tank without it being in visible range? Actually, even if you can, it'd still at best not cost you any time and is more likely to waste time. Maybe use that move to headshot the shocktrooper a somewhat-worrying distance in front of the Edelweiss instead? Actually, now that I think about it, it might be worth it to stop a little short of the second bridge on turn 2, to see if the Edelweiss's machine gun can, when actually facing towards them, kill either of the two shocktroopers before they waste 10 seconds grenading. You have spare CP on turn 4, so...

Ch. 10-2: Maybe, after grenading the bridge with Aika, just let her stand around and get injured by interception fire? Then again, I don't know if that would stop any particular enemies from moving entirely, but it would certainly stop them from having to spend time killing her. The trooper elite leader, at least, looks like it wouldn't move otherwise. Also, try going through turn 2 without using Caution.

Ch. 11: Looks good, but did you need to kill the scout and trooper on the first turn? You should try running past them and past the two invulnerable turrets and hiding near the concrete wall. (am I explaining myself clearly? I really can't tell :/ )

I hope you find my random thoughts helpful. I know I'm going over lots of stuff you already thought about, but hopefully there's something worthwhile in these posts. Tongue

[edit] http://d.hatena.ne.jp/video/niconico/sm5211750

Well, I'm pretty sure Demolition Boost doesn't have an effect on the Edelweiss.  You could maybe put it off until Ch. 9 instead of 7, or perhaps even further if it turns out that it isn't strictly necessary in 9 too.  Actually, if it's not necessary in 9, I would recommend getting Engineers to 3 for Defense Boost and then just maxing Scouts until they get Double Movement by like Ch. 10 or so.

Anyways, my connection is sucking right now and watching videos is taking way too long, but notes for a couple more chapters:

Ch. 8-1: Yeah, Welkin can definitely get there in 3 turns.  Also, do you need to kill the scout?  He seems... extraneous, somehow, as if he'd just ignore you if you didn't shoot him (I don't remember him being that close to the bridge anyways).

Ch. 8-2: Yeah, you definitely have to clear this mission in 1 turn.  If Demolition Boost does turn out to be a waste, you could possibly have your scouts at level 14 by now for Resist Crossfire, as noted in the youtube comment.  If not... well, I don't think you really need it, anyways.

Ch. 9: Try not moving Rosie at all on the first turn, so the car doesn't waste a few seconds shooting her after it moves.  I can't remember if she'd get shot at too much on her approach next turn, though.  And it's disappointing... if you had more two more CP, you could kill the car on the first turn, too. :(

Also, maybe you could try Damage Boost instead of Demolition Boost, which would take up one less CP.. and perhaps that CP would let you get close enough to the car on the first turn to kill it?  I doubt it would make any difference (unless you didn't bother to deploy either largo or alicia on the map, and have a second spare CP to use to move Rosie up), but...

Actually, try using Alicia + Demolition Boost too.  The car'd probably kill her too quickly 9 times out of 10, but...

Ch. 10-1: Can you actually hit the enemy tank without it being in visible range?  Actually, even if you can, it'd still at best not cost you any time and is more likely to waste time.  Maybe use that move to headshot the shocktrooper a somewhat-worrying distance in front of the Edelweiss instead?  Actually, now that I think about it, it might be worth it to stop a little short of the second bridge on turn 2, to see if the Edelweiss's machine gun can, when actually facing towards them,  kill either of the two shocktroopers before they waste 10 seconds grenading.  You have spare CP on turn 4, so...

Ch. 10-2: Maybe, after grenading the bridge with Aika, just let her stand around and get injured by interception fire?  Then again, I don't know if that would stop any particular enemies from moving entirely, but it would certainly stop them from having to spend time killing her.  The trooper elite leader, at least, looks like it wouldn't move otherwise.  Also, try going through turn 2 without using Caution.

Ch. 11: Looks good, but did you need to kill the scout and trooper on the first turn?  You should try running past them and past the two invulnerable turrets and hiding near the concrete wall.  (am I explaining myself clearly?  I really can't tell :/ )

I hope you find my random thoughts helpful.  I know I'm going over lots of stuff you already thought about, but hopefully there's something worthwhile in these posts. :P

[edit] http://d.hatena.ne.jp/video/niconico/sm5211750

your_name_here

2009-02-15 09:54:07 pm

I'm wondering about recruits and old man orders. I know that they are generated randomly at the start of every chapter. So, with a bit of luck manipulation, you can get all the top recruits right from the start.

As for an NG+ run, I think that would work better as individual levels. The game is very well suited to those.

You can do 15-2 much faster than alicia rushing to the cap, then using vyse to take out selvaria on turn 2. It involves using a smoke round and some snipers to take her out on turn 1. I haven't tried this myself, though, but it sounds straightforward.

TJazZ

2009-02-16 12:39:19 pm

Well, VorpalEdge, you were right! I’ve tried Chapter 7 with and without Demolition Boost and the Batomys’s Health finished at about the same spot. It ends up that in order to kill it in that one turn, you’d simply have to upgrade (twice) the Edelweisse’s guns! What a revelation, I can’t believe I’ve been playing all this time assuming Demolition Boost works on Lancers and Tanks. Oh well, that means my scouts will get to level 14 sooner which is great. I’m probably still going to have to get the Lancers to at least level 7 for chapter 9. I can only really play on weekends at this time so my progress is slow but steady.

I figured out a couple of new things along the way. It seems I’m going to have to cut the first segment short a little bit for luck manipulation purposes. When you first get your recruits at the start of chapter 3 they are available randomly, like your_name_here said. I’m going to have to manipulate that in order to get the recruits that I want. And unfortunately, you can’t just pick the 5 or 6 you need and leave. The game won’t allow you to leave until you get a full roster. I’ll also need to upgrade the scout rifles while visiting the R & D Factory. If I don’t do it, I need to take an additional CP in order to kill the enemy standing inside the bases of Chapter 3 and Chapter 4 . It’s takes less time to upgrade since you’re already right there in the menu. In the Training Field, I’m going to upgrade my units to 3 / 2 / 2 / 3 / 1 with 5 exp remaining. I think it’s better to try as much as possible to upgrade the units at the same time if you can instead being stuck upgrading one single unit multiple times in a row. Obviously that only applies when I’m not in the process of getting the Scouts to level 17. I think I’ll be able to still get segment #2 to cover chapter 3 (including the upgrading), 4, 5 and 6. I’ve made significant improvements in those levels because I used Defense Boost.

Chapter 3: I don’t need to use the Tank to take out the two scouts in front.

Chapter 4: I’ll take Largo and move him all the way forward and shoot the wall so Alicia can pass through. Defense Boost on Alicia and reach the base in 2 moves. The rest is like my video.

Chapter 5: Significant strategy improvement here! I only take Alicia and make her pass thought the woods like I did in my video but I take a third CP to move very close to the right side of the enemy fence (but I don’t pass it). I’ll throw the grenade from outside the base to blow out the stacks of wood then I hide her behind the fence in such a way that she can see the Konnenkof guy. That way, when he moves like he normally would, Alicia will shoot him and the AI will make him end his turn immediately without shooting Alicia because she won’t be in his range. A second advantage to this strategy is that when turn #2 comes Alicia will have another grenade so it’s possible to blow out the enemy out of the base only using 1 scout. A Third advantage is that, for reasons I’m not aware of, the AI doesn’t move extra shocktroopers inside the enemy flag zone anymore so it takes even less time to clear the area to capture the flag. So this strategy is triply faster! Although Defense Boost made it possible to kill those guys in the trail, it’s way faster (and easier) to do it the way I describe it above.

Chapter 6: Another significant improvement here. This one is all because of Defense Boost. It turns out that I can reach the enemy base in 4 moves if I walk in a perfectly straight line (with inches to spare).

BTW, that japanese video of chapter 7 is a NG+ and all the lancers are level 20, I believe. That wouldn't really apply to me but it is a good example of how strategies can differ from a regular run to a NG+. Speaking of the devil, Chapter 7 would be pretty much the same except I think it would be faster to make Largo retreat at the end of his second move in turn 1 instead of having him be killed. Since I need to upgrade the Tank’s guns for chapter 7, I would probably end segment #2 here after Chapter 6 and take the opportunity to upgrade the scouts and lancers while I’m visiting Headquarters. In theory, I could go a lot longer without saving because I don’t recall the need for luck manipulation around chapter 7, 8 or 9 but I would hate to mess up a segment because of stupid stuff like menu navigation. I guess I’ll have to wait and see. It’s not my main focus at this point.

I’ll try to upload videos of everything I explained above soon.

Well, VorpalEdge, you were right! I’ve tried Chapter 7 with and without Demolition Boost and the Batomys’s Health finished at about the same spot. It ends up that in order to kill it in that one turn, you’d simply have to upgrade (twice) the Edelweisse’s guns! What a revelation, I can’t believe I’ve been playing all this time assuming Demolition Boost works on Lancers and Tanks. Oh well, that means my scouts will get to level 14 sooner which is great. I’m probably still going to have to get the Lancers to at least level 7 for chapter 9. I can only really play on weekends at this time so my progress is slow but steady.

I figured out a couple of new things along the way. It seems I’m going to have to cut the first segment short a little bit for luck manipulation purposes. When you first get your recruits at the start of chapter 3 they are available randomly, like your_name_here said. I’m going to have to manipulate that in order to get the recruits that I want. And unfortunately, you can’t just pick the 5 or 6 you need and leave. The game won’t allow you to leave until you get a full roster. I’ll also need to upgrade the scout rifles while visiting the R & D Factory. If I don’t do it, I need to take an additional CP in order to kill the enemy standing inside the bases of Chapter 3 and Chapter 4 . It’s takes less time to upgrade since you’re already right there in the menu. In the Training Field, I’m going to upgrade my units to 3 / 2 / 2 / 3 / 1 with 5 exp remaining. I think it’s better to try as much as possible to upgrade the units at the same time if you can instead being stuck upgrading one single unit multiple times in a row. Obviously that only applies when I’m not in the process of getting the Scouts to level 17. I think I’ll be able to still get segment #2 to cover chapter 3 (including the upgrading), 4, 5 and 6. I’ve made significant improvements in those levels because I used Defense Boost.

Chapter 3: I don’t need to use the Tank to take out the two scouts in front.

Chapter 4: I’ll take Largo and move him all the way forward and shoot the wall so Alicia can pass through. Defense Boost on Alicia and reach the base in 2 moves. The rest is like my video.

Chapter 5: Significant strategy improvement here! I only take Alicia and make her pass thought the woods like I did in my video but I take a third CP to move very close to the right side of the enemy fence (but I don’t pass it). I’ll throw the grenade from outside the base to blow out the stacks of wood then I hide her behind the fence in such a way that she can see the Konnenkof guy. That way, when he moves like he normally would, Alicia will shoot him and the AI will make him end his turn immediately without shooting Alicia because she won’t be in his range. A second advantage to this strategy is that when turn #2 comes Alicia will have another grenade so it’s possible to blow out the enemy out of the base only using 1 scout. A Third advantage is that, for reasons I’m not aware of, the AI doesn’t move extra shocktroopers inside the enemy flag zone anymore so it takes even less time to clear the area to capture the flag. So this strategy is triply faster! Although Defense Boost made it possible to kill those guys in the trail, it’s way faster (and easier) to do it the way I describe it above.

Chapter 6: Another significant improvement here. This one is all because of Defense Boost. It turns out that I can reach the enemy base in 4 moves if I walk in a perfectly straight line (with inches to spare).

BTW, that japanese video of chapter 7 is a NG+ and all the lancers are level 20, I believe. That wouldn't really apply to me but it is a good example of how strategies can differ from a regular run to a NG+. Speaking of the devil, Chapter 7 would be pretty much the same except I think it would be faster to make Largo retreat at the end of his second move in turn 1 instead of having him be killed. Since I need to upgrade the Tank’s guns for chapter 7, I would probably end segment #2 here after Chapter 6 and take the opportunity to upgrade the scouts and lancers while I’m visiting Headquarters. In theory, I could go a lot longer without saving because I don’t recall the need for luck manipulation around chapter 7, 8 or 9 but I would hate to mess up a segment because of stupid stuff like menu navigation. I guess I’ll have to wait and see. It’s not my main focus at this point.

I’ll try to upload videos of everything I explained above soon.

your_name_here

2009-02-16 01:57:25 pm

Would a four turn chapter 7 be possible in a regular run? Or, do you need to be at a certain point in the game (in addition to having elite lancers) before you can research mortar lances?

TJazZ

2009-02-16 03:02:01 pm

Impossible unless you do a whole bunch of skirmishes. The only thing you need to get the mortar launcher is level 11 lancers. It takes about 80k exp to get level 11 lancers and chapter 00 to 06 give a total of under 56k exp. You'd have to do at least a dozen skirmishes. Undecided

VorpalEdge

2009-02-16 11:41:51 pm

welcome to the machine

Aw, that sucks. I thought you'd be just able to get lancer elites if you put every single point into them.

I'd still play around with other ways to do it. Maybe try getting the Edelweiss to a high spot and using its mortar (I, uh, really doubt this would work, but I had to mention it)? Or hell, you could probably use Rocket Support if you can get it by then (which may be possible, since it's one of the old man's orders, iirc). Artillery Support would be worth trying too.

I refuse to believe this is impossible.

TJazZ

2009-02-17 07:08:58 am

Well, I will definitely do everything possible to try to make it work in 4 turns. Next weekend I'll really take the time to explore every possibility I can come up with in chapter 7. It would be pretty awesome if I could get it to work though because the enemy turns 7 and 8 take seriously like 3-4 minutes each.

Also, I got around to upload Chapter 3, Chapter 4, Chapter 5 and Chapter 6 I mentioned earlier.

your_name_here

2009-04-18 04:32:58 pm

The recent update supposedly lowers enemy HP. Should make it easier to run.

TJazZ

2009-04-19 08:17:46 am

I didn't know that! I'm playing around with the DLC atm but I had no idea that it changed the game itself. Hmmm I guess this means I have to go back from the start and make sure that I don't over level/upgrade anything. A little more work but that's ok. It's coming along nicely anyway.

BTW, I never actually posted it here but I'm pretty much ready to dub chapter 7 impossible in 4 turns unless it's a NG+. I feel like I've tried everything imaginable and nothing ever damaged came remotely close to working. The Edelweiss can't even shoot grenades that high, scouts surprisingly can't throw grenades on top of the Batymous either. Not even that, I don't even think that grenades dropped right beside the radiator (killing the unit throwing it) damages the radiator at all.

However, I was able to make some small adjustments on my previous chap7 strategy. Such as getting Largo to retreat instead of letting him die. I also figured out that it's possible to save a little time by moving the scout behind the Edelweiss on turn 2 so the batymous doesn't shoot after it. It's saves a little time but every bit helps!

I didn't know that! I'm playing around with the DLC atm but I had no idea that it changed the game itself. Hmmm I guess this means I have to go back from the start and make sure that I don't over level/upgrade anything. A little more work but that's ok. It's coming along nicely anyway.

BTW, I never actually posted it here but I'm pretty much ready to dub chapter 7 impossible in 4 turns unless it's a NG+. I feel like I've tried everything imaginable and nothing ever damaged came remotely close to working. The Edelweiss can't even shoot grenades that high, scouts surprisingly can't throw grenades on top of the Batymous either. Not even that, I don't even think that grenades dropped right beside the radiator (killing the unit throwing it) damages the radiator at all.

However, I was able to make some small adjustments on my previous chap7 strategy. Such as getting Largo to retreat instead of letting him die. I also figured out that it's possible to save a little time by moving the scout behind the Edelweiss on turn 2 so the batymous doesn't shoot after it. It's saves a little time but every bit helps!

TSA

2009-04-22 11:53:58 am

Retired

Quote from TJazZ:

I didn't know that! I'm playing around with the DLC atm but I had no idea that it changed the game itself. Hmmm I guess this means I have to go back from the start and make sure that I don't over level/upgrade anything. A little more work but that's ok. It's coming along nicely anyway.

The most important thing it changes is that it unlocks Selvaria's Ruhm. That thing can destroy tanks and will obliterate any enemy you come across in one turn, even crouching enemies. Only shock troopers can equip it. I have not tested it out on Chapter 7, though, so it is possible it might be more effective than lancers or your tank.

your_name_here

2009-04-23 05:37:41 pm

Quote from TSA:

Quote from TJazZ:

I didn't know that! I'm playing around with the DLC atm but I had no idea that it changed the game itself. Hmmm I guess this means I have to go back from the start and make sure that I don't over level/upgrade anything. A little more work but that's ok. It's coming along nicely anyway.

The most important thing it changes is that it unlocks Selvaria's Ruhm. That thing can destroy tanks and will obliterate any enemy you come across in one turn, even crouching enemies. Only shock troopers can equip it. I have not tested it out on Chapter 7, though, so it is possible it might be more effective than lancers or your tank.

How does the DLC work? Are the unlocked weapons unlocked by default in new games?