Twilight Princess (GCN)

2012-05-19 02:30:10 am

Quote from mzxrules:

We don't ever warp the bridge, we warp to the other side of the gorge with BiTE. BiTE to Kakariko has been known for some time, but the difficulty has been getting over to the Twilit Messenger side of Kakariko Gorge. If you don't kill them you don't get the ability to warp on the map screen, making it impossible to beat the game, and you can't delay killing them because they disappear once the Kakariko twilight is cleared.

Oh hm, completely forgot about that. I guess it would be fastest to go kill them right after escaping faron, before lanaryu twilight?

Pheenoh

Edit history:

Pheenoh: 2012-05-19 03:44:27 am

2012-05-19 03:43:24 am

Pheenoh the mean-o

Quote from rog:

Quote from mzxrules:

We don't ever warp the bridge, we warp to the other side of the gorge with BiTE. BiTE to Kakariko has been known for some time, but the difficulty has been getting over to the Twilit Messenger side of Kakariko Gorge. If you don't kill them you don't get the ability to warp on the map screen, making it impossible to beat the game, and you can't delay killing them because they disappear once the Kakariko twilight is cleared.

Oh hm, completely forgot about that. I guess it would be fastest to go kill them right after escaping faron, before lanaryu twilight?

Right, but you're forced to warp somewhere once you have that warp point. Check the WIP seg'd route I put on ZSR.

logitechSDAZ

2012-05-21 04:07:07 am

GM consistent lja setup

small CitS timesaver for 100%

Surreal

Edit history:

Surreal: 2012-05-21 12:15:57 pm

Surreal: 2012-05-21 12:15:50 pm

Surreal: 2012-05-21 12:15:46 pm

2012-05-21 12:15:27 pm

dabes

Why don't you run this game Logitech?~

Pheenoh

Edit history:

Pheenoh: 2012-05-22 05:03:37 pm

2012-05-21 01:01:15 pm

Pheenoh the mean-o

Another 100% run: 8:02:40.

This run was really good, but still had some big mistakes and wasn't sub 8 (at this point that goal is seeming arbitrary). The next run I can get with no major mistakes I will probably submit. The big ones this time were missing the jumpslash to the switch on Goron Mines once, missing the final LJA in Goron Mines, missing the western gear room LJA in Lakebed (I changed my method for this now), having to play Flight-by-Fowl an extra time, failing the statue/scale trick in temple of time, missing the double LJA in CitS (I probably won't go for this anymore because the risk reward is so low), and getting trolled by the golden bug on Lake Hylia bridge (I had to go back for him after Hidden Village because he disappeared randomly).

Interslice

2012-05-21 03:32:25 pm

Don't worry, soon you will have mucho money dollars from that hefty bounty.

logitechSDAZ

Edit history:

logitechSDAZ: 2012-05-23 04:52:56 am

logitechSDAZ: 2012-05-23 04:46:31 am

logitechSDAZ: 2012-05-23 04:40:39 am

logitechSDAZ: 2012-05-23 04:39:43 am

2012-05-23 04:39:22 am

I did a lot of timing, and unless I screwed up my timing or missed something, not clearing faron twilight is actually slower than clearing it. I didn't time BITE because that part seems like it should basically take the same amount of time whether skipping faron tears or not. If you skip faron tears, lakebed BITE. If you clear faron twilight, south faron BITE.

-before ems skipping tears-
from after south faron portal to mist area as a wolf = 0:43
mist area to north faron = 0:52
total = 1:35

-after ems skipping tears-
south faron to north faron = 1:16
super jump to skip activating north faron portal, burn web, start of load screen to forest temple entry = 0:28
total = 1:44

1:35 + 1:44 = 3:19 (skipping tears)

-before ems collecting tears-
from south faron portal to mist area = 2:00
mist area to north faron = 1:00
total = 3:00

-after ems collecting tears-
south faron to north faron = 1:22
activate north faron portal, collect remaining tears, midna text in south faron = 1:05
warp to north faron, get to golden wolf = 0:28
from exit of north faron golden wolf cutscene, burn web, start of load screen for forest temple entry = 0:13
total = 3:08

3:00 + 3:08 = 6:08 (collecting tears)
6:08 (collecting tears) - 3:19 (skipping tears) = 2:49

-route if you skip clearing faron twilight-
1. escape faron
2. kakariko gorge portal
3. warp to south faron
4. escape faron
5. call epona, clip lanayru gate
6. rupee dive to lakebed
7. BITE
8. clear eldin twilight
9. warp to south faron
10. escape faron
11. call epona, clip lanayru gate
12. rupee dive to lakebed
13. howl at stone in upper zora
14. climb vine close to castle town, get to golden wolf
15. warp out of north faron

-route if you clear faron twilight-
1. escape faron
2. kakariko gorge portal
3. warp to south faron
4. BITE
5. clear eldin twilight
6. warp to south faron
7. escape faron
8. call epona, clip lanayru gate
9. rupee dive to lakebed

-if you skip clearing faron twilight, a 3rd faron escape is necessary-
from south faron portal, escape faron = 0:24
getting to reed grass = 0:12
calling and getting on epona = 0:10
clip lanayru gate to lake hylia = 1:02
rupee dive (not counting the 0:02 midna text before the dive since that won't happen a 2nd time) = 0:41
upper zora howling stone = 0:57
climb vine to golden wolf = 0:03
warp out of north faron after learning ending blow = 0:20
total = 3:49

3:49 - 2:49 = 1:00
Skipping clearing faron twilight is a minute slower.

I did a lot of timing, and unless I screwed up my timing or missed something, not clearing faron twilight is actually slower than clearing it.  I didn't time BITE because that part seems like it should basically take the same amount of time whether skipping faron tears or not. If you skip faron tears, lakebed BITE. If you clear faron twilight, south faron BITE.

-before ems skipping tears-
from after south faron portal to mist area as a wolf = 0:43
mist area to north faron = 0:52
total = 1:35

-after ems skipping tears-
south faron to north faron = 1:16
super jump to skip activating north faron portal, burn web, start of load screen to forest temple entry = 0:28
total = 1:44

1:35 + 1:44 = 3:19 (skipping tears)

-before ems collecting tears-
from south faron portal to mist area = 2:00
mist area to north faron  = 1:00
total = 3:00

-after ems collecting tears-
south faron to north faron = 1:22
activate north faron portal, collect remaining tears, midna text in south faron = 1:05
warp to north faron, get to golden wolf = 0:28
from exit of north faron golden wolf cutscene, burn web, start of load screen for forest temple entry = 0:13
total = 3:08

3:00 + 3:08 = 6:08 (collecting tears)
6:08 (collecting tears) - 3:19 (skipping tears) = 2:49

-route if you skip clearing faron twilight-
1. escape faron
2. kakariko gorge portal
3. warp to south faron
4. escape faron
5. call epona, clip lanayru gate
6. rupee dive to lakebed
7. BITE
8. clear eldin twilight
9. warp to south faron
10. escape faron
11. call epona, clip lanayru gate
12. rupee dive to lakebed
13. howl at stone in upper zora
14. climb vine close to castle town, get to golden wolf
15. warp out of north faron

-route if you clear faron twilight-
1. escape faron
2. kakariko gorge portal
3. warp to south faron
4. BITE
5. clear eldin twilight
6. warp to south faron
7. escape faron
8. call epona, clip lanayru gate
9. rupee dive to lakebed

-if you skip clearing faron twilight, a 3rd faron escape is necessary-
from south faron portal, escape faron = 0:24
getting to reed grass = 0:12
calling and getting on epona = 0:10 
clip lanayru gate to lake hylia = 1:02
rupee dive (not counting the 0:02 midna text before the dive since that won't happen a 2nd time) = 0:41
upper zora howling stone = 0:57
climb vine to golden wolf = 0:03
warp out of north faron after learning ending blow = 0:20
total = 3:49

3:49 - 2:49 = 1:00 
Skipping clearing faron twilight is a minute slower.

rog

Edit history:

rog: 2012-05-23 05:58:55 am

rog: 2012-05-23 05:55:16 am

rog: 2012-05-23 05:38:14 am

rog: 2012-05-23 05:34:00 am

rog: 2012-05-23 05:31:32 am

2012-05-23 05:27:22 am

Assuming you timed to when you can start moving after falling in lake hylia, it took me 53 seconds to get from getting on epona to lake hylia, and it could be done about 2-3 seconds faster as well.

Though wouldn't bite take longer if you skip twilight, since you have to carry the rock and gate clip again? That takes quite a while.

edit: actually looking over my video, it takes me 16 seconds to warp (when human, calling midna to warp. As wolf, with map warp, it takes 12 seconds), and i'm guessing the time i saved on getting to hylia is probably due to faster load zones... I wonder if faster loading could change this for tas.

Pheenoh

2012-05-23 06:46:31 am

Pheenoh the mean-o

I forgot that skipping tears = howling at the stone. Those really suck.

logitechSDAZ

Edit history:

logitechSDAZ: 2012-05-23 05:07:49 pm

logitechSDAZ: 2012-05-23 04:59:44 pm

2012-05-23 04:54:03 pm

Quote from rog:

Though wouldn't bite take longer if you skip twilight, since you have to carry the rock and gate clip again? That takes quite a while.

I didn't time BITE, but I think it would take a little longer if you skip the twilight. Also, I'm not sure you could get from south faron portal to faron escape (start of loading screen to hyrule) in 0:24 in any%. TAS maybe, but that might even be pushing it. And the 0:03 I had climbing the vine to the golden wolf. That doesn't count the few seconds it would take to get to the vine. The 0:57 howling stone is the process itself. Doesn't count the 2 or 3 seconds it would take to get to the stone since it is a tad bit out of the way when collecting tears in upper zora.

On the plus side, no rupee dive twice. And if someone can ever figure out how to consistently clip the lake hylia wall into lakebed, RTA becomes an option. I'm at only around 25% success with that. Once clipping through, drowning before making it to lakebed isn't really a problem anymore with enough practice.

[quote="rog"]
Though wouldn't bite take longer if you skip twilight, since you have to carry the rock and gate clip again? That takes quite a while.
[/quote]

I didn't time BITE, but I think it would take a little longer if you skip the twilight. Also, I'm not sure you could get from south faron portal to faron escape (start of loading screen to hyrule) in 0:24 in any%. TAS maybe, but that might even be pushing it. And the 0:03 I had climbing the vine to the golden wolf. That doesn't count the few seconds it would take to get to the vine. The 0:57 howling stone is the process itself. Doesn't count the 2 or 3 seconds it would take to get to the stone since it is a tad bit out of the way when collecting tears in upper zora.

On the plus side, no rupee dive twice. And if someone can ever figure out how to consistently clip the lake hylia wall into lakebed, RTA becomes an option. I'm at only around 25% success with that. Once clipping through, drowning before making it to lakebed isn't really a problem anymore with enough practice.

rog

Edit history:

rog: 2012-05-25 06:13:37 am

rog: 2012-05-23 06:28:07 pm

rog: 2012-05-23 05:26:57 pm

2012-05-23 05:16:53 pm

mzx had the idea to save in ~~lost woods~~ forest temple, then reload that file later for bite (with an lja over the load zone). That should actually be the fastest way to do it even if you clear twilight, so bite will be exactly the same no matter what.

It takes 24 seconds just to run up to the trigger, plus a few more to transform to human, and jump across. I guess there's probably no chance it could ever be faster then Sad

edit: getting bit at forest temple with an lja is impossible on dolphin. I even went as far as editing the source to change load rates in case dolphin's faster loading pushed back the frame that i needed to reset on to before JSing. Could someone confirm that this is possible on gc?

edit2: you can do bit with an lja by bringing up the pause menu to delay falling. You need to reset before even jumpslashing. Thanks to mzx for that.

logitechSDAZ

Edit history:

logitechSDAZ: 2012-05-25 11:37:51 pm

logitechSDAZ: 2012-05-25 11:37:34 pm

logitechSDAZ: 2012-05-25 11:36:35 pm

2012-05-25 11:36:12 pm

After escaping faron, I timed riding epona to eldin twilight wall vs. staying as a wolf. I got there 0.5 faster as a wolf, but I think I went through the mailman text a little faster when I was a wolf. Epona faces faron after you call her. I got on her from the rear and turned her around at full speed, but my alignment to get to the mailman trigger was not a perfect line. I think with a better alignment epona might still be a tad faster.

mzxrules

2012-06-03 12:06:55 am

zeldaspeedruns.com

Played around with the possibility of skipping the Zelda 1 encounter by using early Bombs+Arrows the other day. My initial plan was to enter the Forest Temple relatively early, grab the Gale Boomerang, leave, return to Faron during the twilight, escape via the new LJA, and use the Kakariko Twilight to transform myself into a wolf then warp back to Faron to play through the game. It resulted in a massive dead-end due to the fact that Midna does not appear on your back unless you encounter her during the Zelda 1 sequence. Without Midna on your back, you cannot perform the charged attack, meaning you can't kill the Twilight near the gorge, or do EMS.

Interslice

2012-06-03 07:55:02 am

This game has dead ends with every possible sequence break you can think of.

ING-X

Edit history:

ING-X: 2012-06-03 02:39:56 pm

2012-06-03 02:39:33 pm

umad

Alright, so since everyone and their dog is beating my TP 3:41 record now, and Pheenoh is getting damn close to my goal time of 3:37, I don't really see much point in continuing to work on my TP run. If someone else can beat something I worked on for 7 months in a matter of days with almost no effort, I don't see the point in me continuing to speedrun. TP drives me completely insane anyway, so I should probably be glad that someone else is taking over.

Pheenoh

Edit history:

Pheenoh: 2012-06-08 10:27:09 pm

2012-06-07 04:57:19 pm

Pheenoh the mean-o

Aiming for 3:34 or 3:33.

EDIT: I got a 3:33 today, so I'm going for 3:31 now.

Interslice

2012-06-09 03:28:51 am

Holy shit, Pheenoh. Nice Job.

ING-X

2012-06-09 07:42:22 am

umad

Good shit pheenoh. This means I don't have to torture myself running this category anymore Tongue

Also you better submit to SDA when you get whatever your goal time is. >:0

ING-X

Edit history:

ING-X: 2012-06-10 06:20:41 pm

2012-06-10 05:32:52 pm

umad

In light of Mofat's S&S skip tutorial, I seem to be able to do the trick pretty consistently now, so I might start up attempts again soon. No promises though.

rog

Edit history:

rog: 2012-06-12 09:31:09 pm

2012-06-12 09:30:49 pm

The mailman is no more.

First one is kind of precise (you need to be 3-4 steps away from the trigger, and the boomerang position requires some precision). It is also only ~1 second faster if you don't escape faron, so not worth doing.

The second is trivially easy, and if anyone tried it even a single time, would have been found before. This one saves about 12 seconds.

logitechSDAZ

Edit history:

logitechSDAZ: 2012-06-14 08:05:04 am

logitechSDAZ: 2012-06-14 08:04:39 am

2012-06-14 07:59:41 am

My 40% consistent method. I can't seem to improve on it beyond that.

Pheenoh

Edit history:

Pheenoh: 2012-06-19 03:44:59 pm

2012-06-19 03:44:43 pm

Pheenoh the mean-o

Any% in 3:28! Smiley

Huge thanks to Logitech and Rog.

ING-X

2012-06-19 05:06:47 pm

umad

So are you gonna submit to SDA now pheenoh?

rog

2012-06-19 05:09:25 pm

That's only his third run with the new route. It can still be improved a few more minutes.

Pheenoh

Edit history:

Pheenoh: 2012-06-19 07:15:36 pm

2012-06-19 05:50:56 pm

Pheenoh the mean-o

I was thinking about it, but probably not. It can still be improved some.

EDIT: After some review of my run with parax, I've decided to go for 3:26 or lower.