Twilight Princess (GCN)

Exo

2012-01-27 05:58:12 am

Sandbagging

Thats insane logitech <3

Pheenoh

Edit history:

Pheenoh: 2012-01-27 10:51:06 am

2012-01-27 10:31:43 am

Pheenoh the mean-o

Thanks for making a video Logi. Also, this means Morpheel/Zant no Zora Armor is back (if this can be pulled off). I bet Rob is just giddy with excitement.

EDIT: Also, when I tested the clipping last night, it seemed like I clipped more consistently when I wasn't facing towards the wall (I was perpendicular to it). Just figured I'd throw that out that, if it helps at all.

ING-X

2012-01-27 01:36:41 pm

umad

Awesome logitech. Now find a way to do it consistent and I'll be able to get sub 3:40 TP RTA Tongue

logitechSDAZ

Edit history:

logitechSDAZ: 2012-01-28 02:14:45 am

logitechSDAZ: 2012-01-28 02:14:04 am

logitechSDAZ: 2012-01-28 02:14:02 am

logitechSDAZ: 2012-01-28 02:12:17 am

logitechSDAZ: 2012-01-28 12:14:40 am

logitechSDAZ: 2012-01-28 12:14:03 am

logitechSDAZ: 2012-01-28 12:13:44 am

2012-01-28 12:11:52 am

Quote from ING-X:

Awesome logitech. Now find a way to do it consistent and I'll be able to get sub 3:40 TP RTA Tongue

Just watched your archived stream. Good job getting into lakebed 4 times in about an hour. Maybe I should try D-pad pause buffering like you did. Sometimes the camera zoomed in very close to Link when you are just getting behind the pillar. You were able to then clip through once or twice with that setup. But when you tried it again (with seemingly the exact same setup) and you didn't clip. There must be some exact frame you need to at when initially getting behind the pillar.

edit: Even if a 100% method is found, this trick probably won't save near as much time as I first thought in SS w/ resets. It could potentially not save any time at all actually. You would skip zora armor. It really is all dependent on morpheel. If you have bad luck with morpheel, the fight can easily last 4 minutes. Compare this with getting zora armor. The telma escort (with a 5 bomb king bulblin fight), zora armor, warp to lake hylia part can be done in 7:30. With SS w/resets, you'll have to steal bombs, empty bag, get water bombs, Goron bomb bag, empty that, and get water bombs again. Stack all that onto an unlucky morpheel fight and fighting zant underwater without zora armor, and all that time saved is gone. Morpheel might have to be beaten in 5 bombs or less for this trick to save time.

[quote="ING-X"]Awesome logitech. Now find a way to do it consistent and I'll be able to get sub 3:40 TP RTA :P[/quote]

Just watched your archived stream. Good job getting into lakebed 4 times in about an hour. Maybe I should try D-pad pause buffering like you did. Sometimes the camera zoomed in very close to Link when you are just getting behind the pillar. You were able to then clip through once or twice with that setup. But when you tried it again (with seemingly the exact same setup) and you didn't clip. There must be some exact frame you need to at when initially getting behind the pillar.

edit: Even if a 100% method is found, this trick probably won't save near as much time as I first thought in SS w/ resets. It could potentially not save any time at all actually. You would skip zora armor. It really is all dependent on morpheel.  If you have bad luck with morpheel, the fight can easily last 4 minutes. Compare this with getting zora armor. The telma escort (with a 5 bomb king bulblin fight), zora armor, warp to lake hylia part can be done in 7:30. With SS w/resets, you'll have to steal bombs, empty bag, get water bombs, Goron bomb bag, empty that, and get water bombs again. Stack all that onto an unlucky morpheel fight and fighting zant underwater without zora armor, and all that time saved is gone. Morpheel might have to be beaten in 5 bombs or less for this trick to save time.

Interslice

2012-01-28 04:51:08 am

That's logitech for you. Finds extremely hard tricks that save almost no time. Although it is pretty damn cool.

ING-X

2012-01-28 07:48:56 am

umad

Yeah, it seems as though zora armor + fishing rod skip only saves significant time in segmented because of morpheel luck. Sad story. :[

Interslice

2012-01-28 08:41:08 am

So now the optimal RTA route makes you want to shoot yourself? Yep, that sounds about right.

ING-X

2012-01-28 09:28:04 am

umad

Quote from Interslice:

So now the optimal RTA route makes you want to shoot yourself? Yep, that sounds about right.

What? I don't quite understand Undecided

Interslice

2012-01-28 09:39:16 am

Optimal RTA means either doing rupee dive or this new clip. Zora armor is not the fastest route in RTA.

ING-X

2012-01-28 10:20:18 am

umad

Didn't the optimal RTA route always make everyone want to shoot themselves? Tongue

ING-X

Edit history:

ING-X: 2012-01-29 05:12:55 pm

ING-X: 2012-01-29 06:43:36 am

ING-X: 2012-01-29 06:42:47 am

2012-01-28 10:04:27 pm

umad

I decided to verify what Logitech said earlier. If the zora armor and fishing rod skip route IS faster for TP RTA, it's by less than a minute for sure. These timings are assuming a 4 bomb buffered king bulblin fight for zora armor route and Jiano's morpheel fight for the "optimal" route (probably the worst case scenario for both):

Optimal route:

Savewarp: 0:18 (up to where my video starts)
Getting into temple: 1:35 (my video)
Second savewarp: 0:23
Getting back to Fyer: 2:38
First part of Lakebed: 1:22
Goron Bomb Bag: 1:09
Lakebed up to clawshot (includes ooccoo from zora's domain): 4:07
Savewarp: 0:23
To Morpheel: 1:31
Morpheel (loading zone fade in until morpheel dying cs starts): 4:25
Total: 17:51

Zora Armor route:

Getting to Fyer: 0:10
Telma escort (starting from warping to castle town until gaining control in Lake Hylia): 8:11
Getting into temple: 1:00 (until fade in)
Temple: 1:48:31 to 2:00:34 = 12:03, - 4:12 = 7:51
Ooccoo in snowpeak: 0:40
Total: 17:52

Time saved: 1 second (lol)

Clawshot gains some time in snowpeak outside and in the dungeon itself but it's not enough to warrant doing the hard as fuck pillar clip in a run that's already hard enough.

EDIT: I forgot about Zant (another 17 seconds). So that probably cancels out most of the snowpeak time saved.

EDIT: Apparently clawshot saves 27 seconds in Snowpeak. Combine that with clawshotting to climb the vines before the peak province twilit messengers (18 seconds vs 40 seconds without clawshot = 22 seconds saved) and the no zora armor and no fishing rod route saves 33 seconds. Savewarping (23 seconds) in snowpeak after B&C saves 19 seconds over using Ooccoo. So now we're saving 52 seconds. The bomb trick in AG (12 seconds from pulling bomb until being in front of the opened gate + 3 seconds to turn into wolf = 15 seconds) saves 9 seconds over using ball and chain (now saving 1:01). You would then need the chest from CitS (26 seconds). After that the routes should be the same aside from Zant fight. So:

0:01 - 0:17 (-0:16) + 0:27 (0:11) + 0:22 (0:33) + 0:19 (0:52) + 0:09 (1:01) - 0:26 = 0:35

So the new route saves 35 seconds over getting zora armor assuming bad morpheel luck. Not worth the trouble IMO.

If someone wants to check my math and/or timings please do so.

I decided to verify what Logitech said earlier. If the zora armor and fishing rod skip route IS faster for TP RTA, it's by less than a minute for sure. These timings are assuming a 4 bomb buffered king bulblin fight for zora armor route and Jiano's morpheel fight for the "optimal" route (probably the worst case scenario for both):

Optimal route:

Savewarp: 0:18 (up to where my video starts)
Getting into temple: 1:35 (my video)
Second savewarp: 0:23
Getting back to Fyer: 2:38
First part of Lakebed: 1:22
Goron Bomb Bag: 1:09
Lakebed up to clawshot (includes ooccoo from zora's domain): 4:07
Savewarp: 0:23
To Morpheel: 1:31
Morpheel (loading zone fade in until morpheel dying cs starts): 4:25
Total: 17:51

Zora Armor route:

Getting to Fyer: 0:10
Telma escort (starting from warping to castle town until gaining control in Lake Hylia): 8:11
Getting into temple: 1:00 (until fade in)
Temple: 1:48:31 to 2:00:34 = 12:03, - 4:12 = 7:51
Ooccoo in snowpeak: 0:40
Total: 17:52

Time saved: 1 second (lol)

Clawshot gains some time in snowpeak outside and in the dungeon itself but it's not enough to warrant doing the hard as fuck pillar clip in a run that's already hard enough.

EDIT: I forgot about Zant (another 17 seconds). So that probably cancels out most of the snowpeak time saved.

EDIT: Apparently clawshot saves 27 seconds in Snowpeak. Combine that with clawshotting to climb the vines before the peak province twilit messengers (18 seconds vs 40 seconds without clawshot = 22 seconds saved) and the no zora armor and no fishing rod route saves 33 seconds. Savewarping (23 seconds) in snowpeak after B&C saves 19 seconds over using Ooccoo. So now we're saving 52 seconds. The bomb trick in AG (12 seconds from pulling bomb until being in front of the opened gate + 3 seconds to turn into wolf = 15 seconds) saves 9 seconds over using ball and chain (now saving 1:01). You would then need the chest from CitS (26 seconds). After that the routes should be the same aside from Zant fight. So:

0:01 - 0:17 (-0:16) + 0:27 (0:11) + 0:22 (0:33) + 0:19 (0:52) + 0:09 (1:01) - 0:26 = 0:35

So the new route saves 35 seconds over getting zora armor assuming bad morpheel luck. Not worth the trouble IMO.

If someone wants to check my math and/or timings please do so.

Miles

2012-01-29 09:54:53 pm

Then... Don't get bad Morpheel luck?

Paraxade

Edit history:

Paraxade: 2012-01-30 02:43:51 am

Paraxade: 2012-01-30 02:21:32 am

Paraxade: 2012-01-30 02:16:48 am

Paraxade: 2012-01-30 02:16:25 am

Paraxade: 2012-01-30 02:09:26 am

Paraxade: 2012-01-30 02:05:46 am

Paraxade: 2012-01-30 02:05:40 am

Paraxade: 2012-01-30 02:04:30 am

Paraxade: 2012-01-30 02:03:47 am

2012-01-30 01:59:49 am

Quote from Miles:

Then... Don't get bad Morpheel luck?

^

35 seconds sounds like a ton of time saved especially when you're assuming you're going to lose a couple minutes to bad luck. Which you might not. I mean there IS such a thing as a good Morpheel fight yknow.

Also, lemme mention.. you don't need the CitS bomb chest unless you did so badly on Morpheel that you had less than 2 bombs. Keep in mind most other runners were under the impression that water Zant is random, which he's not; that's the only reason Jiano went out of his way for bombs. Getting a 2-bomb fight was near 100% consistent for me when I was doing my run, though. Just get the strat down and you'll never have any trouble with it. I went into the Zant fight with 5 bombs, and you can swap out the two I used in Arbiter's Grounds for the ball & chain so if you get a really good Morpheel you'd have 7... that leaves you plenty of room for error on Morpheel.

Really depends how consistent you can get the pillar clip down, but the time saved is quite significant imo if you can get it to work. I mean you're saying you can get awful luck and still save a pretty decent amount of time (close to a minute if you take out the CitS chest).

[quote="Miles"]Then... Don't get bad Morpheel luck?[/quote]

^

35 seconds sounds like a ton of time saved especially when you're assuming you're going to lose a couple minutes to bad luck. Which you might not. I mean there IS such a thing as a good Morpheel fight yknow.

Also, lemme mention.. you don't need the CitS bomb chest unless you did so badly on Morpheel that you had less than 2 bombs. Keep in mind most other runners were under the impression that water Zant is random, which he's not; that's the only reason Jiano went out of his way for bombs. Getting a 2-bomb fight was near 100% consistent for me when I was doing my run, though. Just get the strat down and you'll never have any trouble with it. I went into the Zant fight with 5 bombs, and you can swap out the two I used in Arbiter's Grounds for the ball & chain so if you get a really good Morpheel you'd have 7... that leaves you plenty of room for error on Morpheel.

Really depends how consistent you can get the pillar clip down, but the time saved is quite significant imo if you can get it to work. I mean you're saying you can get awful luck and still save a pretty decent amount of time (close to a minute if you take out the CitS chest).

logitechSDAZ

2012-01-30 06:21:48 am

I've been practicing this more with pause buffering. I can only clip through about 20% of the time. I'm not sure I can improve upon that. I just can't figure out a guaranteed method.

ING-X

Edit history:

ING-X: 2012-01-30 01:30:58 pm

ING-X: 2012-01-30 01:26:03 pm

ING-X: 2012-01-30 01:17:13 pm

2012-01-30 01:14:08 pm

umad

Yeah the problem with the pillar clip is that it's nowhere near consistent enough. The run is already hard enough with all of the luck involved (plus being almost 4 hours long) without adding an insanely hard trick that only works about once ever 5-10 tries over an hour in.

EDIT: If you don't get the CitS chest, the new route saves 1:01. Get perfect morpheel luck, and it's saving 3:23. If zora armor route got perfect King Bulblin luck, the new route would save 2:53. So the pillar clip saves 2:53 over zora armor if both routes get perfect luck.

logitechSDAZ

2012-02-05 09:38:52 pm

I finally found a way to do this glitch in the kakariko pond behind the graveyard. I put on iron boots and dropped the bomb just as I'm falling off the ledge. It only took me almost 2 years to think to use iron boots lol. I can't get the bomb close enough to the rock before it detonates. I've tried back walking against the bomb (which gives me the most control moving the bomb, but is too slow). I tried swimming against the bomb but I can't control the bomb's movement that way.

Anyone know how to easily push a bomb while swimming? If you can blow up the rock leading to lake hylia, it would save time in a 100% run.

Paraxade

2012-02-05 10:47:54 pm

You can't put on the iron boots and pick up the bomb?

If not then I have no idea. :/

logitechSDAZ

Edit history:

logitechSDAZ: 2012-02-05 11:58:58 pm

2012-02-05 11:58:23 pm

Quote from Paraxade:

You can't put on the iron boots and pick up the bomb?

If not then I have no idea. :/

The bomb disappears when you try to pick it up.

Pheenoh

2012-02-19 06:26:33 am

Pheenoh the mean-o

I did a 100% SS run yesterday, in 8:53. It was pretty bad, but it's the first 100% run that was actually finished afaik. I may try and improve it in the future.

http://www.twitch.tv/pheenoh/b/308954343

ING-X

2012-02-19 07:37:58 am

umad

I got a run to Morpheel for the first time in like 3 months yesterday. I was doing pretty good, but then I choked on City in the Sky, and it was all downhill from there. I didn't finish. I need some better way to do the first 15 minutes, because 99% of my runs end there, and I don't wanna end up doing what Jiano did and perfect the beginning just to choke on something easy later. Should I lower my standards for the first 15 minutes? As it is, I reset if gate clip doesn't work first try and if I don't make it to the spring by the 9 minute mark (requires either sub 30 second goats or really good sumoing, so I only make it to the spring about half the time). Obviously I also reset if I fail S&S skip.

Interslice

2012-02-19 08:16:28 pm

Pheenoh, did you have the route open while you were playing?

Externalist

2012-02-19 10:24:33 pm

Quote from Pheenoh:

I did a 100% SS run yesterday, in 8:53. It was pretty bad, but it's the first 100% run that was actually finished afaik. I may try and improve it in the future.

http://www.twitch.tv/pheenoh/b/308954343

Gogo Pheenoh !! Smiley

Pheenoh

2012-02-20 06:59:31 am

Pheenoh the mean-o

Quote from Interslice:

Pheenoh, did you have the route open while you were playing?

I had it open for reference but I don't think I ever used it.

Interslice

2012-02-20 09:29:09 am

That's a lot of poorly translated things to remember. How many times have you gone through the route?

ING-X

2012-02-20 12:13:00 pm

umad

I got a 3:41:45 SS w/ resets run. I counted up the (non luck based) mistakes and it added up to 5 minutes and 32 seconds of mistakes. I really want to submit, but I'm terrified that I'm gonna get it rejected for having too many mistakes. The mistakes I have are:

Failing EMS: 0:20
Kargarok: 1:22
City in the Sky: 1:18
Palace of Twilight west wing: 0:46
Deathwarp fail: 0:30
Last LJA fail: 0:34
Horseback Ganondorf: 0:14
Final ganondorf: 0:28

Total: 5:32

Again, this is not counting bad luck, since there's nothing I can do about that.