Twilight Princess (GCN)

2011-11-13 07:41:57 am

umad

I do back up for freezard skip, but it still seems completely random. The route I'm currently using for RTA (getting slingshot) lets me get milk, and the 8 heart total that gives me still isn't enough sometimes for me to clip.

Interslice

2011-11-13 10:50:08 am

From what I've seen of your Freezard skipping, all I can say is you're not backig up far enough. Everything else seems fine though.
Oh and if you make it through the door behind the freezard but die to Darkhammer, you will respawn right outside the freezard, so you can keep trying over again.

ING-X

2011-11-15 05:10:27 am

umad

Quote from logitechSDAZ:

Quote from ING-X:

Ah, ok, thanks. What would be a good expected time for a SS w/ resets run for TP? I'm guessing something around 3:30 on GCN would be submittable?

3:30 doesn't seem possible. Assuming SS with resets saves 10 minutes (might save less than that), the best possible time would be about 3:34.

Wait... if Jiano had 6 minutes of mistakes in his 3:56, the best possible time would have been 3:50, then subtract 3 minutes for skipping zora armor and 10 minutes for resets/savewarps and you get 3:37... where are the other 3 minutes coming from? :S

logitechSDAZ

Edit history:

logitechSDAZ: 2011-11-15 04:32:50 pm

2011-11-15 04:29:22 pm

Quote from ING-X:

Wait... if Jiano had 6 minutes of mistakes in his 3:56, the best possible time would have been 3:50, then subtract 3 minutes for skipping zora armor and 10 minutes for resets/savewarps and you get 3:37... where are the other 3 minutes coming from? :S

The timing I came up with was used from a run Rob did awhile back around May. I compared it to Jiano's run. Keep in mind, this timing was with the slower zora dive to lakebed and no hyrule castle barrier skips (since they weren't yet known). Also, the timing was done assuming a 5 bomb king bulblin fight. Now, going by that, Rob was 5:24 ahead of Jiano when entering Faron twilight because of S&S skip. The zora armor and no zora armor route are the same until after B&C. If Rob had kept pace with Jiano (tear collecting and such), after entering Lakebed he would have been 3:15 ahead of Jiano. Here's the things that are faster.

lakebed water tunnel = 0:41 faster
morpheel fight = 2:26 faster
statue clip = 2:00 faster
CitS 1st room = 0:26 faster
underwater zant = 0:17 faster
total = 5:50

5:50 + 3:15 = 9:05 (with zora dive and no barrier skips)
Rob does the lake hylia wall clip much faster than I do in my video, so it's about 0:37 faster than zora dive.
Barrier clips are about 1:18 faster
3 bomb king bulblin fight = 0:35 faster
9:05 + 0:37 + 1:18 + 0:35 = 11:35
3:56 - 11:35 = 3:44.25
3:44.25 - 10 (single segment with resets) = 3:34.25

[quote="ING-X"]
Wait... if Jiano had 6 minutes of mistakes in his 3:56, the best possible time would have been 3:50, then subtract 3 minutes for skipping zora armor and 10 minutes for resets/savewarps and you get 3:37... where are the other  3 minutes coming from? :S[/quote]

The timing I came up with was used from a run Rob did awhile back around May. I compared it to Jiano's run. Keep in mind, this timing was with the slower zora dive to lakebed and no hyrule castle barrier skips (since they weren't yet known). Also, the timing was done assuming a 5 bomb king bulblin fight. Now, going by that, Rob was 5:24 ahead of Jiano when entering Faron twilight because of S&S skip. The zora armor and no zora armor route are the same until after B&C. If Rob had kept pace with Jiano (tear collecting and such), after entering Lakebed he would have been 3:15 ahead of Jiano. Here's the things that are faster.

lakebed water tunnel = 0:41 faster
morpheel fight = 2:26 faster
statue clip = 2:00 faster
CitS 1st room = 0:26 faster
underwater zant = 0:17 faster
total = 5:50

5:50 + 3:15 = 9:05 (with zora dive and no barrier skips)
Rob does the lake hylia wall clip much faster than I do in my video, so it's about 0:37 faster than zora dive.
Barrier clips are about 1:18 faster
3 bomb king bulblin fight = 0:35 faster
9:05 + 0:37 + 1:18 + 0:35 = 11:35
3:56 - 11:35 = 3:44.25
3:44.25 - 10 (single segment with resets) = 3:34.25

Interslice

2011-11-15 04:59:06 pm

Quote from logitechSDAZ:

Quote from ING-X:

Wait... if Jiano had 6 minutes of mistakes in his 3:56, the best possible time would have been 3:50, then subtract 3 minutes for skipping zora armor and 10 minutes for resets/savewarps and you get 3:37... where are the other 3 minutes coming from? :S

The timing I came up with was used from a run Rob did awhile back around May. I compared it to Jiano's run. Keep in mind, this timing was with the slower zora dive to lakebed and no hyrule castle barrier skips (since they weren't yet known). Also, the timing was done assuming a 5 bomb king bulblin fight. Now, going by that, Rob was 5:24 ahead of Jiano when entering Faron twilight because of S&S skip. The zora armor and no zora armor route are the same until after B&C. If Rob had kept pace with Jiano (tear collecting and such), after entering Lakebed he would have been 3:15 ahead of Jiano. Here's the things that are faster.

lakebed water tunnel = 0:41 faster
morpheel fight = 2:26 faster
statue clip = 2:00 faster
CitS 1st room = 0:26 faster
underwater zant = 0:17 faster
total = 5:50

5:50 + 3:15 = 9:05 (with zora dive and no barrier skips)
Rob does the lake hylia wall clip much faster than I do in my video, so it's about 0:37 faster than zora dive.
Barrier clips are about 1:18 faster
3 bomb king bulblin fight = 0:35 faster
9:05 + 0:37 + 1:18 + 0:35 = 11:35
3:56 - 11:35 = 3:44.25
3:44.25 - 10 (single segment with resets) = 3:34.25

So you're saying an optimized single segment run is a 3:44?

[quote="logitechSDAZ"][quote="ING-X"]
Wait... if Jiano had 6 minutes of mistakes in his 3:56, the best possible time would have been 3:50, then subtract 3 minutes for skipping zora armor and 10 minutes for resets/savewarps and you get 3:37... where are the other  3 minutes coming from? :S[/quote]

The timing I came up with was used from a run Rob did awhile back around May. I compared it to Jiano's run. Keep in mind, this timing was with the slower zora dive to lakebed and no hyrule castle barrier skips (since they weren't yet known). Also, the timing was done assuming a 5 bomb king bulblin fight. Now, going by that, Rob was 5:24 ahead of Jiano when entering Faron twilight because of S&S skip. The zora armor and no zora armor route are the same until after B&C. If Rob had kept pace with Jiano (tear collecting and such), after entering Lakebed he would have been 3:15 ahead of Jiano. Here's the things that are faster.

lakebed water tunnel = 0:41 faster
morpheel fight = 2:26 faster
statue clip = 2:00 faster
CitS 1st room = 0:26 faster
underwater zant = 0:17 faster
total = 5:50

5:50 + 3:15 = 9:05 (with zora dive and no barrier skips)
Rob does the lake hylia wall clip much faster than I do in my video, so it's about 0:37 faster than zora dive.
Barrier clips are about 1:18 faster
3 bomb king bulblin fight = 0:35 faster
9:05 + 0:37 + 1:18 + 0:35 = 11:35
3:56 - 11:35 = 3:44.25
3:44.25 - 10 (single segment with resets) = 3:34.25

[/quote]
So you're saying an optimized single segment run is a 3:44?

ING-X

Edit history:

ING-X: 2011-11-15 05:46:03 pm

ING-X: 2011-11-15 05:43:16 pm

2011-11-15 05:41:21 pm

umad

Keep in mind that the statue clip time would probably end up being lost (maybe not the full 2 minutes but a decent amount of it) in other places because of worse luck (the main reason Jiano failed statue clip for 2 minutes is because he spent so long perfecting the beginning and got such amazing luck in the first 2 hours that something like that happening was inevitable), so a submittable time would probably be around 3:45-3:46 for SS and 3:35-3:36 for SS w/ resets.

logitechSDAZ

2011-11-15 05:49:41 pm

Quote from ING-X:

Keep in mind that the statue clip time would probably end up being lost (maybe not the full 2 minutes but a decent amount of it) in other places because of worse luck (the main reason Jiano failed statue clip for 2 minutes is because he spent so long perfecting the beginning and got such amazing luck in the first 2 hours that something like that happening was inevitable), so a submittable time would probably be around 3:45-3:46 for SS and 3:35-3:36 for SS w/ resets.

Yeah, 3:34 is if everything were to be near perfect, which is not a realistic expectation.

robwest

2011-11-15 07:12:12 pm

Speedrunning down a dream

Quote from Interslice:

Quote from logitechSDAZ:

Quote from ING-X:

Wait... if Jiano had 6 minutes of mistakes in his 3:56, the best possible time would have been 3:50, then subtract 3 minutes for skipping zora armor and 10 minutes for resets/savewarps and you get 3:37... where are the other 3 minutes coming from? :S

The timing I came up with was used from a run Rob did awhile back around May. I compared it to Jiano's run. Keep in mind, this timing was with the slower zora dive to lakebed and no hyrule castle barrier skips (since they weren't yet known). Also, the timing was done assuming a 5 bomb king bulblin fight. Now, going by that, Rob was 5:24 ahead of Jiano when entering Faron twilight because of S&S skip. The zora armor and no zora armor route are the same until after B&C. If Rob had kept pace with Jiano (tear collecting and such), after entering Lakebed he would have been 3:15 ahead of Jiano. Here's the things that are faster.

lakebed water tunnel = 0:41 faster
morpheel fight = 2:26 faster
statue clip = 2:00 faster
CitS 1st room = 0:26 faster
underwater zant = 0:17 faster
total = 5:50

5:50 + 3:15 = 9:05 (with zora dive and no barrier skips)
Rob does the lake hylia wall clip much faster than I do in my video, so it's about 0:37 faster than zora dive.
Barrier clips are about 1:18 faster
3 bomb king bulblin fight = 0:35 faster
9:05 + 0:37 + 1:18 + 0:35 = 11:35
3:56 - 11:35 = 3:44.25
3:44.25 - 10 (single segment with resets) = 3:34.25

So you're saying an optimized single segment run is a 3:44?

I've looked over my own runs a lot and I simply have no idea where you can cut 8 minutes. 4-5, yes. 8 just sounds like insanity.

[quote="Interslice"][quote="logitechSDAZ"][quote="ING-X"]
Wait... if Jiano had 6 minutes of mistakes in his 3:56, the best possible time would have been 3:50, then subtract 3 minutes for skipping zora armor and 10 minutes for resets/savewarps and you get 3:37... where are the other  3 minutes coming from? :S[/quote]

The timing I came up with was used from a run Rob did awhile back around May. I compared it to Jiano's run. Keep in mind, this timing was with the slower zora dive to lakebed and no hyrule castle barrier skips (since they weren't yet known). Also, the timing was done assuming a 5 bomb king bulblin fight. Now, going by that, Rob was 5:24 ahead of Jiano when entering Faron twilight because of S&S skip. The zora armor and no zora armor route are the same until after B&C. If Rob had kept pace with Jiano (tear collecting and such), after entering Lakebed he would have been 3:15 ahead of Jiano. Here's the things that are faster.

lakebed water tunnel = 0:41 faster
morpheel fight = 2:26 faster
statue clip = 2:00 faster
CitS 1st room = 0:26 faster
underwater zant = 0:17 faster
total = 5:50

5:50 + 3:15 = 9:05 (with zora dive and no barrier skips)
Rob does the lake hylia wall clip much faster than I do in my video, so it's about 0:37 faster than zora dive.
Barrier clips are about 1:18 faster
3 bomb king bulblin fight = 0:35 faster
9:05 + 0:37 + 1:18 + 0:35 = 11:35
3:56 - 11:35 = 3:44.25
3:44.25 - 10 (single segment with resets) = 3:34.25

[/quote]
So you're saying an optimized single segment run is a 3:44?[/quote]

I've looked over my own runs a lot and I simply have no idea where you can cut 8 minutes. 4-5, yes. 8 just sounds like insanity.

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

Edit history:

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-11-15 07:28:19 pm

2011-11-15 07:26:51 pm

Claimh Happy

Quote from logitechSDAZ:

If Rob had kept pace with Jiano (tear collecting and such), after entering Lakebed he would have been 3:15 ahead of Jiano.

That seems contradictory.

logitechSDAZ

2011-11-15 11:32:05 pm

Quote from mapler90210:

That seems contradictory.

From his run in May, Rob was 5:24 ahead of Jiano when he entered Faron twilight. The zora armor route differs from the no zora armor route after B&C. I timed Jiano's route (warping to kakariko, emptying bomb bag, bomb fish, etc) vs. Rob's route (warping to Castle Town, 5 bomb King Bulblin fight, Telma escort, getting zora armor). At the time, that route used zora dive to enter lakebed. For a section of the route (after B&C to lakebed entrance with zora armor), it was 2:09 slower than Jiano's route after B&C.
5:24 - 2:09 = 3:15.
With a 3 bomb king bulblin fight and lake hylia wall clip, it is possible to be ahead of Jiano's time by 4:27 after entering lakebed.

Quote from robwest:

I've looked over my own runs a lot and I simply have no idea where you can cut 8 minutes. 4-5, yes. 8 just sounds like insanity.

4:27 ahead of Jiano at lakebed entrance (with 3 bomb king bulblin fight) is possible.
Lakebed water tunnel, Morpheel, statue clip, CitS 1st room, underwater Zant is 5:50 faster.
Hyrule castle barrier skips save 1:18.
4:27 + 5:50 + 1:18 = 11:35
3:56.00 - 11:35 = 3:44.25

Yeah, you'd have to have an insanely optimized run for this to happen. I was just trying to figure out the best possible time for a SS run.
I think a more realistic expectation for a SS run would be 3:47.00.

[quote="mapler90210"]
That seems contradictory.
[/quote]

From his run in May, Rob was 5:24 ahead of Jiano when he entered Faron twilight. The zora armor route differs from the no zora armor route after B&C. I timed Jiano's route (warping to kakariko, emptying bomb bag, bomb fish, etc) vs. Rob's route (warping to Castle Town, 5 bomb King Bulblin fight, Telma escort, getting zora armor). At the time, that route used zora dive to enter lakebed. For a section of the route (after B&C to lakebed entrance with zora armor), it was 2:09 slower than Jiano's route after B&C. 
5:24 - 2:09 = 3:15. 
With a 3 bomb king bulblin fight and lake hylia wall clip, it is possible to be ahead of Jiano's time by 4:27 after entering lakebed.

[quote="robwest"]
I've looked over my own runs a lot and I simply have no idea where you can cut 8 minutes. 4-5, yes. 8 just sounds like insanity.
[/quote]

4:27 ahead of Jiano at lakebed entrance (with 3 bomb king bulblin fight) is possible.
Lakebed water tunnel, Morpheel, statue clip, CitS 1st room, underwater Zant is 5:50 faster. 
Hyrule castle barrier skips save 1:18.
4:27 + 5:50 + 1:18 = 11:35 
3:56.00 - 11:35 = 3:44.25

Yeah, you'd have to have an insanely optimized run for this to happen. I was just trying to figure out the best possible time for a SS run. 
I think a more realistic expectation for a SS run would be 3:47.00.

ING-X

2011-11-16 05:11:17 am

umad

Yeah, 3:44 is assuming only 3 minutes of mistakes (Jiano had about 3-4 minutes of mistakes outside of statue clip), which is probably way too much to ask for in a SS run this long and with so much luck involved.

Paraxade

2011-11-16 06:27:17 am

you guys are assuming you can't save any time over jiano in places where there weren't any mistakes just through optimization.

ING-X

2011-11-16 01:12:54 pm

umad

You can't really expect optimization in a SS run of this length, especially with all the luck involved. Not everyone is as good at aiming with double clawshots as you are paraxade Sad

Surreal

Edit history:

Surreal: 2011-11-16 05:36:05 pm

Surreal: 2011-11-16 05:35:52 pm

2011-11-16 05:35:31 pm

dabes

A lot of the optimizations in a segged run would completely screw someone over if they failed it in a SS. The whole hyrule castle section when midna is "dying" is a good example.

The rope grab in Telma's bar, skipping those ropes in the staircase, jumping off the broken off bridge from the diagonal angle instead of waiting for the wind to blow it up again.

A problem with TP is that it has too many difficult optimizations that save very little time, and if you mess them up you lose a lot of time lol

Paraxade

2011-11-16 07:10:49 pm

from what I watched of jiano's run recently there are tons of easy optimizations that he didn't do. I'll admit I didn't watch the whole thing, though, but it seems to me it could have been a lot more optimal even being an SS.

ING-X

2011-11-16 07:28:40 pm

umad

The only thing I can think of is the trick to instantly pull out clawshot/boomerang by pressing L (which probably does save about a minute throughout the course of the run admittedly).

I still can't get S&S skip consistent at all. I'm getting a lot better but it's still awful. I've been practicing it all day and can still only get it about once every ~15 tries.

http://www.twitch.tv/ingx24/b/300174920

Can someone watch the later attempts in this recording and tell me what I'm doing wrong? Sad

Interslice

2011-11-16 08:23:41 pm

Quote from ING-X:

The only thing I can think of is the trick to instantly pull out clawshot/boomerang by pressing L (which probably does save about a minute throughout the course of the run admittedly).

I still can't get S&S skip consistent at all. I'm getting a lot better but it's still awful. I've been practicing it all day and can still only get it about once every ~15 tries.

http://www.twitch.tv/ingx24/b/300174920

Can someone watch the later attempts in this recording and tell me what I'm doing wrong? Sad

Looks like in most of them you're too far away from the wall. The text trigger is kind of at an angle so the farther away the from the wall you are, the more likly you are to hit the text trigger. That being said, you don't want to be too close to the wall or you'll jump into the wall, cutting of your distance. It's all about manipulating that asshole into the correct spot. Oh, and don't attempt the jump if you wern't touching the bublin when right before you backhop. You will never make it.

[quote="ING-X"]The only thing I can think of is the trick to instantly pull out clawshot/boomerang by pressing L (which probably does save about a minute throughout the course of the run admittedly).

I still can't get S&S skip consistent at all. I'm getting a lot better but it's still awful. I've been practicing it all day and can still only get it about once every ~15 tries.

http://www.twitch.tv/ingx24/b/300174920

Can someone watch the later attempts in this recording and tell me what I'm doing wrong? :([/quote]
Looks like in most of them you're too far away from the wall.  The text trigger is kind of at an angle so the farther away the from the wall you are, the more likly you are to hit the text trigger.  That being said, you don't want to be too close to the wall or you'll jump into the wall, cutting of your distance.  It's all about manipulating that asshole into the correct spot.  Oh, and don't attempt the jump if you wern't touching the bublin when right before you backhop.  You will never make it.

ING-X

2011-11-17 05:02:57 am

umad

I messed with S&S skip A LOT last night, and I think I've come up with a better setup that works for me. I'll mess with it a bit more and make a video of it later today.

ING-X

2011-11-17 07:38:21 pm

umad

Sorry for the double post; not sure if edits actually show up as unread on this forum.

Here's my S&S skip strat (with commentary):

When I say "circle" I'm talkin about on the ground, not the wall. There's a circle-ish shape made by textures on the ground that I use as a reference point to get the right position and angle without worrying about camera angles.

Mystery

2011-11-18 03:20:26 am

The forum does mark threads with the last post as unread.

Interslice

2011-11-18 03:00:39 pm

Does anyone have a video of the easier vine clip in Lakebed?

Interslice

2011-11-19 11:52:43 am

Just finished a single segment. My new record is a 3:53:27. Here are the splits.

As you can see, I had an amazing Sword and Shield skip. I also got a one roll Lanayru gate clip. There was also a 5 bomb King Bublin. But I also had an 11 cycle Zelda.

Attachment:

Speedrun pic.JPG

ING-X

2011-11-19 02:25:15 pm

umad

Nice job, Interslice. I finished my first run last night, the time was 4:22:41 (which I think is pretty good for a first attempt).

Surreal

2011-11-19 02:28:52 pm

dabes

Wowzerz.

Interslice

2011-11-19 02:47:16 pm

Good job, Ing. My first run speedrun style was like, 7 hours. It was more of just a "beat the game with EMS" because I didn't know what the hell I was doing. A 4:22 is very good. It took me like 3-4 months to get that good.