Turok 2 hard mode speed run

2013-03-16 12:38:56 am

Worthless categories WR master

I am the only one playing on easy around here Sad

If you plan on single-segmenting this game, I have no idea why/how you can play it on hard. I survive about halfway through Port of Adia, I can't imagine what would happen with further levels. Resetting over taking damage would just be a massive pain in the ass and would induce "RNG" into the run, as if there wasn't plenty of it already with the one-hit kills. But hey, that's just my opinion!

The quote by behemoth is a little bit old, nowadays with the improvements on river of souls I would say Port of Adia is possible in 12:15, but realistically a little over 12:20 (record is 12:27.00), Death Marshes could be done in 10:20-25 (record is 10:28.01) and River of Souls could be done in about 17:25 (record is 17:40.48). For the later missions I can't give any estimate because I still have to learn them. I know I've said many times I would do it, but I just can't find the motivation to drive myself through it. Also I'm trying to get to DK64 101%, which will take a lot of effort.

I am the only one playing on easy around here :(

If you plan on single-segmenting this game, I have no idea why/how you can play it on hard. I survive about halfway through Port of Adia, I can't imagine what would happen with further levels. Resetting over taking damage would just be a massive pain in the ass and would induce "RNG" into the run, as if there wasn't plenty of it already with the one-hit kills. But hey, that's just my opinion!

The quote by behemoth is a little bit old, nowadays with the improvements on river of souls I would say Port of Adia is possible in 12:15, but realistically a little over 12:20 (record is 12:27.00), Death Marshes could be done in 10:20-25 (record is 10:28.01) and River of Souls could be done in about 17:25 (record is 17:40.48). For the later missions I can't give any estimate because I still have to learn them. I know I've said many times I would do it, but I just can't find the motivation to drive myself through it. Also I'm trying to get to DK64 101%, which will take a lot of effort.

Firehyphen

2013-03-16 05:45:49 pm

UA is a walrus

Well after reviewing the run i got a 13:01 on port of aidia without practice so improvements can be made.

I'm most likely going to be running port all day tomorrow then work on River of Souls a bit more.

Behemoth

2013-03-17 04:53:33 pm

When doing River of souls it's up to you if you want to take the dinosaur ride or not. Being on hard mode it's probably not much worth and too difficult to go on foot. I posted it on the previous page that walking is faster at least fairly significantly on easy and normal modes, but some of the shots on the distant turrets are tricky. A little later on remember to do the jump through the raised bridge trick to save 20 seconds if you're not doing it already. I was too late in discovering it in my run where i would have to delete too much of the run at the time. It's fair to say at this point for you it's probably more beneficial to check out Bismuth attempts on these first 3 levels, even though he is on easy mode, the tricks and route choices in certain areas are more optimal.

Bismuth

Edit history:

Bismuth: 2013-03-23 09:50:11 am

Bismuth: 2013-03-23 09:48:00 am

2013-03-23 09:46:31 am

Worthless categories WR master

"Even though he is on easy mode" PFFFFT I'm not even mad Angry

I want to keep running this game but I just can't find the energy to set up my stream and go at it again...

Oh and by the way hyphen, you can see the best port of adia run here and the best river of souls in this run

behemoth

2013-03-23 09:56:46 pm

i say that because Firehyphen said he is also running hard mode, where easy mode strats can sometimes be a no go...... i thought that was quite clear myself. Never mind Sad

Bismuth

2013-03-28 11:33:39 am

Worthless categories WR master

I was just kidding, don't worry Tongue

Bismuth

Edit history:

Bismuth: 2013-05-18 02:49:30 am

Bismuth: 2013-05-18 02:35:04 am

Bismuth: 2013-05-18 02:35:00 am

Bismuth: 2013-05-18 02:34:59 am

2013-05-18 02:31:40 am

Worthless categories WR master

Hey, I am trying to get into running the full game single-segmented in irrational hopes of getting to play Turok 2 at AGDQ 2014, but one thing bothers me a ton.

Here I was going to include footage but sadly Twitch lost my video (from like less than a week ago). Basically, what happens is that during the Hive, usually when I'm going for the early P-key, when I deathwarp or when I'm just clumsy and fall, sometimes the game gets stuck in an endless loop of Turok falling with the whole screen black. I've already talked about this, but now I would really want to see this softlock disappear from the list of bad things that may or may not happen during a run (cutscene softlock glitch is another).

Here are the things I have observed about the occurrences of the softlock:
- It tends to happen when I'm about to get the Primagen key (but that could be due to the next thing)
- It tends to happen after I fall down a hole about 3 to 5 times
- It seems like it happens systematically when I do this sequence:
1. Deathwarp by falling down for the force field generator relatively early in the level (that part where you jump across the room with a damage boost, shoot a laser gun, take out the generator, and deathwarp back to go on);
2. Deathwarp at the eagle feather;
3. Deathwarp or fail the P-key trick.
- Saving my game at the P-key area warp, quitting the game and reloading my save has been, so far, the only consistent fix to it

Any ideas on why this happen and how to get around it? Can someone help me experiment and come up with a result? Has anyone else experienced that softlock?

As of now what I do in a run is that, at that point, I pause the game, pause the timer, save, quit, load, unpause timer, and go on. I understand how questionable that is for a so-called single-segment run, but what choice do I have? The game crashes on me otherwise! And there is no way I drop the primagen key early and give up on a 15-minute timesaver because of some stupid weird glitch. Also I can't just dive head first and hope, and go "aw, WR-pace hour-long run gone due to random bullshit, too bad, try again!" whenever I get fucked. I may also add that experimenting with the glitch probably means playing through the whole level because I really believe that it has to do with the level as a whole.

If I ever was to do it in a marathon, I would do the same thing, without the timer pausing. Safety save, marathon strats.

I guess while I'm ranting I could also go on about the cutscene softlock. Basically, at the end of a cutscene, instead of regaining control, you are completely stuck. If you try to move, Turok will enter that "move animation" and the gun will move, but you won't move an inch. There are also some graphical glitches, I think it was the gun/arm being partly invisible. It happened only twice to me, and there are two particularities that are common to both the situations.
1. Both times it happened after the Death Marshes mission overview cutscene.
2. Both times it happened when I went for a 3/4 missions run after playing in Hive of the Mantids without exitting the game in-between, only going to the main menu and starting up a new game.

Because of number 2 here, I think that I should be safe from this softlock, but it could still be more problematic than it appears to be at the moment. Maybe someone has information or has made observations about that, too.

Here's to the hope I can run Turok 2 at AGDQ! Cheesy

Edit: also while looking for softlocks I found this old almost discovery http://www.twitch.tv/bismuth9/c/2299304

Hey, I am trying to get into running the full game single-segmented in irrational hopes of getting to play Turok 2 at AGDQ 2014, but one thing bothers me a ton.

Here I was going to include footage but sadly Twitch lost my video (from like less than a week ago). Basically, what happens is that during the Hive, usually when I'm going for the early P-key, when I deathwarp or when I'm just clumsy and fall, sometimes the game gets stuck in an endless loop of Turok falling with the whole screen black. I've already talked about this, but now I would really want to see this softlock disappear from the list of bad things that may or may not happen during a run (cutscene softlock glitch is another).

Here are the things I have observed about the occurrences of the softlock:
 - It tends to happen when I'm about to get the Primagen key (but that could be due to the next thing)
 - It tends to happen after I fall down a hole about 3 to 5 times
 - It seems like it happens systematically when I do this sequence: 
     1. Deathwarp by falling down for the force field generator relatively early in the level (that part where you jump across the room with a damage boost, shoot a laser gun, take out the generator, and deathwarp back to go on);
     2. Deathwarp at the eagle feather;
     3. Deathwarp or fail the P-key trick.
 - Saving my game at the P-key area warp, quitting the game and reloading my save has been, so far, the only consistent fix to it

Any ideas on why this happen and how to get around it? Can someone help me experiment and come up with a result? Has anyone else experienced that softlock?

As of now what I do in a run is that, at that point, I pause the game, pause the timer, save, quit, load, unpause timer, and go on. I understand how questionable that is for a so-called single-segment run, but what choice do I have? The game crashes on me otherwise! And there is no way I drop the primagen key early and give up on a 15-minute timesaver because of some stupid weird glitch. Also I can't just dive head first and hope, and go "aw, WR-pace hour-long run gone due to random bullshit, too bad, try again!" whenever I get fucked. I may also add that experimenting with the glitch probably means playing through the whole level because I really believe that it has to do with the level as a whole.

If I ever was to do it in a marathon, I would do the same thing, without the timer pausing. Safety save, marathon strats.

I guess while I'm ranting I could also go on about the cutscene softlock. Basically, at the end of a cutscene, instead of regaining control, you are completely stuck. If you try to move, Turok will enter that "move animation" and the gun will move, but you won't move an inch. There are also some graphical glitches, I think it was the gun/arm being partly invisible. It happened only twice to me, and there are two particularities that are common to both the situations.
     1. Both times it happened after the Death Marshes mission overview cutscene.
     2. Both times it happened when I went for a 3/4 missions run after playing in Hive of the Mantids without exitting the game in-between, only going to the main menu and starting up a new game.

Because of number 2 here, I think that I should be safe from this softlock, but it could still be more problematic than it appears to be at the moment. Maybe someone has information or has made observations about that, too.

Here's to the hope I can run Turok 2 at AGDQ! :D :D

Edit: also while looking for softlocks I found this old almost discovery http://www.twitch.tv/bismuth9/c/2299304

giganotabehemoth87

2013-05-18 09:35:43 am

For the save quitting/pausing timer, you'd have to forward that the people in charge with a private thread or something. Is Mike still active in this forum ?, but otherwise I can see no reason why that wouldn't be allowed in a marathon. Because quite rightly it is a fucking lame glitch. It happened to me a few times, though it sounds like it occurs more to you, more likely due to single segment and the sequence of falls/deaths like you mentioned.

For that almost skip in ROS. Yeah i remember finding this a long time ago. It is unfortunately blocked however it passes a mission objective and key, and i think those two things are too far back to counter the back track that it would have required.

Bismuth

2013-05-18 10:09:31 am

Worthless categories WR master

Well I was saying without the time pausing because usually the time in marathons is half serious anyway, no one goes for WR runs and usually take a little bit of extra time to show off, talk about the run, etc. But anyway, conversation about that would imply that the game is accepted, and while it was probably the 3rd most popular N64 FPS (behind GE007 and Perfect Dark, maybe about tied to PD?), I know that many people do not agree with me that it is an awesome game. The main argument that Turok 2 is bad is that its performance on the N64 is absolutely horrendous, usually being under 10 FPS (I've tried TASing it and the lag was terrible), and the controls are very unresponsive (delay on input is 0.20 seconds). The good thing, though, is that the PC port fixes all those issues (but has a tiny bit of compatibility problems, like the music requiring an additional fix and a bit of random crashing that happens every once in a while, also I believe the softlocks are PC exclusive)

Bismuth

Edit history:

Bismuth: 2013-05-22 12:50:01 am

Bismuth: 2013-05-22 12:29:16 am

Bismuth: 2013-05-22 12:29:09 am

Bismuth: 2013-05-21 11:58:34 pm

2013-05-21 11:46:48 pm

Worthless categories WR master

I completed a segmented run of Death Marshes in 9:52 in-game time!

Note: Timing is from beginning of the mission (a save was done just after the cutscene) to a save in the Hub at the end.
Start time: 13:53
End time: 23:45
Number of segments: 9

Edit: ARRARGH sound didn't get recorded.

Here it is

Bismuth

Edit history:

Bismuth: 2013-05-24 02:39:47 am

Bismuth: 2013-05-24 02:39:43 am

Bismuth: 2013-05-24 02:39:41 am

Bismuth: 2013-05-24 02:31:49 am

Bismuth: 2013-05-24 01:07:41 am

Bismuth: 2013-05-23 05:32:34 pm

Bismuth: 2013-05-23 02:49:17 am

2013-05-22 10:00:58 pm

Worthless categories WR master

River of Souls in 16:42 (real-time 17:12.700) - 14 segments

Segment 1: first area (the dinosaur and all)
Time: 25:25 to 27:09 = 1:44
Attempts: 141
It's not absolutely perfect... I think 1:43 is possible but it's pretty solid. I went on foot. It took me 85 minutes.
http://www.twitch.tv/bismuth9/c/2322106

Segment 2: second and third areas (ends with the bridge glitch)
Time: 27:09 to 28:19 = 1:10
Attempts: 81
Number of attempts is high because of the bridge switches at the beginning.
http://www.twitch.tv/bismuth9/c/2322189

Segment 3: city gates (4th area)
Time: 28:19 to 29:56 = 1:37
Attempts: 48
Here, the number of attempts is almost only the water boost.
http://www.twitch.tv/bismuth9/c/2322195

Segment 4: Soul gate 1
Time: 29:56 to 31:10 = 1:14
Attempts: 29

Segment 5: long tunnel full of endtrails up to the tower with a warp inside
Time: 31:10 to 32:10 = 1:00
Attempts: 47
Here it was frustrating mostly because of the end where you have to shoot two switches. I take a little bit more time that I would've wanted but I don't have an aimbot!

Segment 6: tunnels up to the first graveyard
Time: 32:10 to 33:02 = 0:52
Attempts: 32
The switch inside the trap room with the ultra health wasn't pleasant because I mismanaged my ammo and ended up having to use my bow. Overall, though, I doubt I lost any time on that.

Segment 7: first graveyard
Time: 33:02 to 33:52 = 0:50
Attempts: 112
I hated this graveyard. Technically I could have done maybe 0:48 but I had to refill on ammo, be extremely lucky with double kills/one hit KOs and dodge those annoying spiders. Also, auto-aim makes you aim way underneath the sisters of despair so it's pretty hard to actually hit them. Thankfully, usually only the first sister is troublesome about that.

Segment 8: underwater tunnels and the high bridges
Time: 33:52 to 34:46 = 0:56
Attempts: 15
That went smoothly, but maybe the end result isn't 100% optimal. I don't think I really could have done much better with more attempts. Maybe, maybe 0:55.

Segment 9: up to the second graveyard
Time: 34:46 to 35:41 = 0:55
Attempts: 306
I would be mad at one part in particular, but it was literally EVERYTHING. The first slope jump is very hard (I get it about 60% of the time), the endtrail after the two other slope jumps can be an asshole, I then had to kill the spiders because they were so goddamn annoying (they would block me about 75% of the time) and then the switch... I hit the switch about 30% of the time, and then the WATER BOOST. Holy shit did I have trouble nailing that boost. Hell, I think it's not even optimal in my final cut! And let's not forget the terribly-positioned brown-ass monkey that jumps at me just at the corner at the very end to screw me over and the two spiders at the warp that you can't jump over because the tunnels are 2 ft high... This was the worst segment so far.

Segment 10: second graveyard
Time: 35:41 to 35:57 = 0:16
Attempts: 37
I know the length is ridiculous, but I simply couldn't attach it to the last one (obviously) and it would've been pretty annoying to run the next one with it, too. This segment wasn't hard, but it was very random. I got 3 out of 4 one-hit KOs and the other took me 2 hits. I also got some ammo on the way without losing that much time.

Segment 11: second graveyard to last area, collecting the 2nd level 4 key
Time: 35:57 to 37:02 = 1:05
Attempts: 41
It wasn't that hard but auto-aim was making my shots go to the endtrail in the back when I was trying to shoot the one blocking my way at the end of the corridor before the big chasm and the warp for the level 4 key. They usually ended up hitting a limb or missing the one I was actually trying to kill. Also, I had to collect 3 explosive shells so I had 5 for the last soul gate.

Segment 12: last area to last graveyard
Time: 37:02 to 38:33 = 1:31
Attempts: 317
I was hoping for 1:35, got 1:31. Can't complain.

Segment 13: last graveyard and Leap of Faith
Time: 38:33 to 41:27 = 2:54
Attempts: 110
Here the worst was getting to kill them all in one hit. It didn't happen of course, but this run had good luck. I also learned you could shoot through certain blue gates.

Segment 14: Totem defense
Time: 41:27 to 42:07 = 0:40
Attempts: 62
Maybe I botched this one a bit... the part before the totem defense is pretty optimal but the defense itself wasn't really perfect. I was just tired of bad endtrail luck and kept the first 42:07 that came to me. I think I should've been able to grab a 42:05.

Uploading right now. By the way the real time is pretty slow because I record at 30 FPS with Fraps, but usually the game runs at a very weird 36-50 varying framerate. It's kinda hard to compare, and actually that is why Ewil's run was a 13:04 even though his strats were um... let's say not optimal Wink

His framerate looks like it's standing at around 50 throughout the run, but it's very hard to get it to stay stable in Turok 2. That makes real-time really awkward to measure, sadly...

The real-time was timed on my correctly edited version of the video, from frame 229 (0:07.633) where the Talon appears on the screen to the first non-moving, fading frame, at 31191 (17:19.733). On the YouTube video, that is 17:58.500 I think. I always edited out from the first non-completely blue frame after warping from one segment to the last completely blue frame before fading in on the next segment. So all the completely blue frames are on one segment and the first fade-in frame is from the next segment.

River of Souls in 16:42 (real-time 17:12.700) - 14 segments

Segment 1: first area (the dinosaur and all)
Time: 25:25 to 27:09 = 1:44
Attempts: 141
It's not absolutely perfect... I think 1:43 is possible but it's pretty solid. I went on foot. It took me 85 minutes.
http://www.twitch.tv/bismuth9/c/2322106

Segment 2: second and third areas (ends with the bridge glitch)
Time: 27:09 to 28:19 = 1:10
Attempts: 81
Number of attempts is high because of the bridge switches at the beginning.
http://www.twitch.tv/bismuth9/c/2322189

Segment 3: city gates (4th area)
Time: 28:19 to 29:56 = 1:37
Attempts: 48
Here, the number of attempts is almost only the water boost.
http://www.twitch.tv/bismuth9/c/2322195

Segment 4: Soul gate 1
Time: 29:56 to 31:10 = 1:14
Attempts: 29

Segment 5: long tunnel full of endtrails up to the tower with a warp inside
Time: 31:10 to 32:10 = 1:00
Attempts: 47
Here it was frustrating mostly because of the end where you have to shoot two switches. I take a little bit more time that I would've wanted but I don't have an aimbot!

Segment 6: tunnels up to the first graveyard
Time: 32:10 to 33:02 = 0:52
Attempts: 32
The switch inside the trap room with the ultra health wasn't pleasant because I mismanaged my ammo and ended up having to use my bow. Overall, though, I doubt I lost any time on that.

Segment 7: first graveyard
Time: 33:02 to 33:52 = 0:50
Attempts: 112
I hated this graveyard. Technically I could have done maybe 0:48 but I had to refill on ammo, be extremely lucky with double kills/one hit KOs and dodge those annoying spiders. Also, auto-aim makes you aim way underneath the sisters of despair so it's pretty hard to actually hit them. Thankfully, usually only the first sister is troublesome about that.

Segment 8: underwater tunnels and the high bridges
Time: 33:52 to 34:46 = 0:56
Attempts: 15
That went smoothly, but maybe the end result isn't 100% optimal. I don't think I really could have done much better with more attempts. Maybe, maybe 0:55.

Segment 9: up to the second graveyard
Time: 34:46 to 35:41 = 0:55
Attempts: 306
I would be mad at one part in particular, but it was literally EVERYTHING. The first slope jump is very hard (I get it about 60% of the time), the endtrail after the two other slope jumps can be an asshole, I then had to kill the spiders because they were so goddamn annoying (they would block me about 75% of the time) and then the switch... I hit the switch about 30% of the time, and then the WATER BOOST. Holy shit did I have trouble nailing that boost. Hell, I think it's not even optimal in my final cut! And let's not forget the terribly-positioned brown-ass monkey that jumps at me just at the corner at the very end to screw me over and the two spiders at the warp that you can't jump over because the tunnels are 2 ft high... This was the worst segment so far.

Segment 10: second graveyard
Time: 35:41 to 35:57 = 0:16
Attempts: 37
I know the length is ridiculous, but I simply couldn't attach it to the last one (obviously) and it would've been pretty annoying to run the next one with it, too. This segment wasn't hard, but it was very random. I got 3 out of 4 one-hit KOs and the other took me 2 hits. I also got some ammo on the way without losing that much time.

Segment 11: second graveyard to last area, collecting the 2nd level 4 key
Time: 35:57 to 37:02 = 1:05
Attempts: 41
It wasn't that hard but auto-aim was making my shots go to the endtrail in the back when I was trying to shoot the one blocking my way at the end of the corridor before the big chasm and the warp for the level 4 key. They usually ended up hitting a limb or missing the one I was actually trying to kill. Also, I had to collect 3 explosive shells so I had 5 for the last soul gate.

Segment 12: last area to last graveyard
Time: 37:02 to 38:33 = 1:31
Attempts: 317
I was hoping for 1:35, got 1:31. Can't complain.

Segment 13: last graveyard and Leap of Faith
Time: 38:33 to 41:27 = 2:54
Attempts: 110
Here the worst was getting to kill them all in one hit. It didn't happen of course, but this run had good luck. I also learned you could shoot through certain blue gates.

Segment 14: Totem defense
Time: 41:27 to 42:07 = 0:40
Attempts: 62
Maybe I botched this one a bit... the part before the totem defense is pretty optimal but the defense itself wasn't really perfect. I was just tired of bad endtrail luck and kept the first 42:07 that came to me. I think I should've been able to grab a 42:05.

Uploading right now. By the way the real time is pretty slow because I record at 30 FPS with Fraps, but usually the game runs at a very weird 36-50 varying framerate. It's kinda hard to compare, and actually that is why Ewil's run was a 13:04 even though his strats were um... let's say not optimal ;) His framerate looks like it's standing at around 50 throughout the run, but it's very hard to get it to stay stable in Turok 2. That makes real-time really awkward to measure, sadly...

The real-time was timed on my correctly edited version of the video, from frame 229 (0:07.633) where the Talon appears on the screen to the first non-moving, fading frame, at 31191 (17:19.733). On the YouTube video, that is 17:58.500 I think. I always edited out from the first non-completely blue frame after warping from one segment to the last completely blue frame before fading in on the next segment. So all the completely blue frames are on one segment and the first fade-in frame is from the next segment.

Bismuth

Edit history:

Bismuth: 2013-05-24 02:34:48 am

Bismuth: 2013-05-24 02:34:36 am

Bismuth: 2013-05-24 02:33:31 am

2013-05-24 02:28:37 am

Worthless categories WR master

BOOM. The only sad part is how I failed at editing because I was multitasking. Left out two things that add up to 30 seconds... Oh, and if you watch it embedded, at 17:00 where it says click here to skip, don't click! It's only 20 seconds anyway.

Bismuth

Edit history:

Bismuth: 2013-05-25 12:07:05 am

Bismuth: 2013-05-24 08:53:55 pm

2013-05-24 08:43:43 pm

Worthless categories WR master

Well, apparently, running segmented runs of levels made me practice enough to beat my old record by a ridiculous margin.

First 3 missions in 43:19.48

Also a new record for Death Marshes in 10:04.13 and River of Souls in 17:25.65. Port of Adia isn't really bad, 12:32.78 (5.78 from WR)
River of Souls could've used a little bit less nervousness in the beginning (I went from -39 to -23) but the end was absolutely ridiculously good and lucky. I really couldn't have asked for better luck in the last graveyard. All in all an extremely solid run that makes me realize sub-43 is not out of reach (who would've known!). And I recall saying that I could see sub-46 being done, one year ago... Until recently though I really thought 43:45 was the max.

Well, apparently, running segmented runs of levels made me practice enough to beat my old record by a ridiculous margin.

[url=http://www.twitch.tv/bismuth9/c/2329215]First 3 missions in 43:19.48[/url]

Also a new record for Death Marshes in 10:04.13 and River of Souls in 17:25.65. Port of Adia isn't really bad, 12:32.78 (5.78 from WR)
River of Souls could've used a little bit less nervousness in the beginning (I went from -39 to -23) but the end was absolutely ridiculously good and lucky. I really couldn't have asked for better luck in the last graveyard. All in all an extremely solid run that makes me realize sub-43 is not out of reach (who would've known!). And I recall saying that I could see sub-46 being done, one year ago... Until recently though I really thought 43:45 was the max.

giganotabehemoth87

2013-05-30 09:49:10 am

I really shouldn't watch these. makes me ashamed of my first three levels Tongue

Great stuff all round Bismuth !!.
I wonder if a little more liberal use of the explosive shotgun shells in the 3rd caged child area and other places in PoA would prevent you getting stuck sometimes. Also I think picking up the grenade launcher in death marshes next to the prisoner cage will help some things later in river of souls. It'll only cost you 1 - 2 seconds to collect but the pay off would probably far exceed that, making sure the first sister gets killed quickly (being that enemy HP is lower on easy perhaps just one splash damage early shot will be all you need?) and perhaps some close range blasts to large zombies may kill them instantly. I think some experimentation of this weapon for these early levels might be a eye opener.

Bismuth

2013-05-31 12:40:15 pm

Worthless categories WR master

You could be right on this one, because I'll admit I've always despised the grenade launcher because it never seemed to do actually decent damage and it was extremely hard to get it to fire where you wanted it to fire. Maybe with some practice I could come up with a strategy for river of souls that uses the grenade launcher to save time but honestly, at this point I think we're talking more about consistency than really saving time, because if I kill everything in one shot already, technically I'd lose time by firing a grenade launcher because the grenades are slower!

As for the state of the first 3 missions, I believe that Port of Adia is overdue for a new record: my 12:27.00 still stands even after all that practice, though nowadays I seem to come extremely close about 70% of the time (between 12:29 and 12:35). I still believe 12:10 to be possible, more realistically 12:15 to 12:20. Using, let me say "TAS" I think that mission could go under 12:00, but I doubt we'll see that in the near future. Your segmented run comes very close in this mission, I recall timing it at around 12:35.

Death Marshes... it's really a shame that I missed that sub-10 because I doubt I will ever be able to do a run as clean as that one. The amount of luck with the sentries was beautiful, and the execution was flawless. The totem defense went top notch. I know sub-10 is clearly possible but I think my run was probably just as good as the segmented run I did before (maybe even better?).

River of Souls, there is time to be saved there, making it very well possible to reach sub-17:10. Sub-17 isn't happening in a long time in my book, just like sub-12 PoA. A cleaner first half could save up to 20 seconds, and I remember making little mistakes at the end, too. Sub-17 can be done with a perfect run, I'm pretty sure!

So what do I do now? Well, I am learning Lair of the Blind Ones and I can tell you right now, it scares me. Not the level itself, as I have grown out of fearing Turok 2, but the idea of speedrunning it. I like your strategies in this level behemoth, but I can never get to execute them just as well. The fight skip at the first Level 6 key is pretty slick! I've gone through half of it now, enough times so that I think I wouldn't get lost by now, but it's at my nearly hour-long first 3 missions level: I kind of know where I am going but the execution is terrible. Full games run still scare me... Primagen's Lightship and its crazy skips...

You could be right on this one, because I'll admit I've always despised the grenade launcher because it never seemed to do actually decent damage and it was extremely hard to get it to fire where you wanted it to fire. Maybe with some practice I could come up with a strategy for river of souls that uses the grenade launcher to save time but honestly, at this point I think we're talking more about consistency than really saving time, because if I kill everything in one shot already, technically I'd lose time by firing a grenade launcher because the grenades are slower!

As for the state of the first 3 missions, I believe that Port of Adia is overdue for a new record: my 12:27.00 still stands even after all that practice, though nowadays I seem to come extremely close about 70% of the time (between 12:29 and 12:35). I still believe 12:10 to be possible, more realistically 12:15 to 12:20. Using, let me say "TAS" I think that mission could go under 12:00, but I doubt we'll see that in the near future. Your segmented run comes very close in this mission, I recall timing it at around 12:35.

Death Marshes... it's really a shame that I missed that sub-10 because I doubt I will ever be able to do a run as clean as that one. The amount of luck with the sentries was beautiful, and the execution was flawless. The totem defense went top notch. I know sub-10 is clearly possible but I think my run was probably just as good as the segmented run I did before (maybe even better?).

River of Souls, there is time to be saved there, making it very well possible to reach sub-17:10. Sub-17 isn't happening in a long time in my book, just like sub-12 PoA. A cleaner first half could save up to 20 seconds, and I remember making little mistakes at the end, too. Sub-17 can be done with a perfect run, I'm pretty sure!

So what do I do now? Well, I am learning Lair of the Blind Ones and I can tell you right now, it scares me. Not the level itself, as I have grown out of fearing Turok 2, but the idea of speedrunning it. I like your strategies in this level behemoth, but I can never get to execute them just as well. The fight skip at the first Level 6 key is pretty slick! I've gone through half of it now, enough times so that I think I wouldn't get lost by now, but it's at my nearly hour-long first 3 missions level: I kind of know where I am going but the execution is terrible. Full games run still scare me... Primagen's Lightship and its crazy skips...

giganotabehemoth87

Edit history:

giganotabehemoth87: 2013-05-31 02:15:29 pm

2013-05-31 02:14:07 pm

At close range the grenade launcher can kill most things as long as you aim for the head/upper body, and i think some of those big zombies standing in those houses in the 3rd graveyard can be dispatched instantly with a point blank blast. The shredder is of course the most versatile weapon in the game and one of the strongest when used right but it can faulter up close occasionally. and you're quite right it's all about consistency now, not so much saving time. It's all about making sure things don't screw up.

There is unfortunately a huge incline for luck manipulation in the later levels as far as good optimizations go. It'll just have to be a case of grim and bare it and slug it out one step at a time. The huge overhead cave door grab is a nightmare and so can the satchel charge grab on the river walk. But several jump attempts will still pay off better still than going the intended route to pick it up. Technically you should do level 5 (The Hive) next, then level 4. My tests revealed that is a lot faster to do so than vice versa due to all that primagen key shit, and besides all the helpful weapons you get in level 4 get picked up early enough in level 5 anyway (charge dart, flamethrower). Actually that's a point, the scorpion missile launcher might be another solid weapon for a few areas in level 4 ?. Also another reason to pick up grenade launcher:, it is invaluable for destroying the blockades in those tight tunnels in level 5, those fleshy egg/pod things. At that point in the game the grenade launcher is nearly useless save for a few small enemies, so all the remaining grenades you have work wonders on these pods to clear the paths with no delay, saving you those all important shredder shells.

At close range the grenade launcher can kill most things as long as you aim for the head/upper body, and i think some of those big zombies standing in those houses in the 3rd graveyard can be dispatched instantly with a point blank blast. The shredder is of course the most versatile weapon in the game and one of the strongest when used right but it can faulter up close occasionally. and you're quite right it's all about consistency now, not so much saving time. It's all about making sure things don't screw up.

There is unfortunately a huge incline for luck manipulation in the later levels as far as good optimizations go. It'll just have to be a case of grim and bare it and slug it out one step at a time. The huge overhead cave door grab is a nightmare and so can the satchel charge grab on the river walk. But several jump attempts will still pay off better still than going the intended route to pick it up. Technically you should do level 5 (The Hive) next, then level 4. My tests revealed that is a lot faster to do so than vice versa due to all that primagen key shit, and besides all the helpful weapons you get in level 4 get picked up early enough in level 5 anyway (charge dart, flamethrower). Actually that's a point, the scorpion missile launcher might be another solid weapon for a few areas in level 4 ?. Also another reason to pick up grenade launcher:, it is invaluable for destroying the blockades in those tight tunnels in level 5, those fleshy egg/pod things. At that point in the game the grenade launcher is nearly useless save for a few small enemies, so all the remaining grenades you have work wonders on these pods to clear the paths with no delay, saving you those all important shredder shells.

Bismuth

2013-05-31 06:48:22 pm

Worthless categories WR master

Yes, I do plan on collecting the grenade launcher in order to use it on those. I've already learned the Hive, but my completion times are rather bad. I am learning the Lair because it's what I'm doing after the Hive, and then I'll learn the Lightship and hopefully complete a run within the next days/weeks.

Squeebles

2013-06-02 03:40:23 am

Alright it looks like I might finally have another useful idea to contribute here- On the Sisters of Despair 1 and 2 I've found that you can pretty reliably kill them with one explosive shredder shell by doing the following; As the door opens go just inside and look as perfectly sideways at one of the walls as you can, jump, and fire at the top of the jump or somewhere around that height. If it works right the actual projectile won't hit the SoD and it will create a ton of explosions at chest height just in front of her, easily mowing through all the mini-boss' health. Of course this means saving an extra 2 explosive shells, and it still leaves the last SoD to be figured out.

Bismuth

Edit history:

Bismuth: 2013-06-03 02:27:31 am

Bismuth: 2013-06-03 02:18:59 am

Bismuth: 2013-06-03 02:14:53 am

Bismuth: 2013-06-03 12:16:05 am

Bismuth: 2013-06-03 12:15:58 am

2013-06-03 12:14:37 am

Worthless categories WR master

Well, on Easy you can just fire one normal shredder shell up her face in close range, so the second one is not a problem at all. The thing is auto-aim makes you aim under her by quite a bit, so shooting from a distance is tricky. Somehow, I usually still kill the third one with one shredder shell while standing very far away by shooting at the right timing. If you guys have a reliable strategy that lets me shoot the first SoD from afar killing her in one shot, tell me!

Also, I did a full Lair of the Blind Ones run tonight. I HATE THIS LEVEL SO MUCH. I'd like it if someone could give me a strategy for this shitty thing here. http://www.twitch.tv/bismuth9/b/411966829?t=18m40s
You can see I try for several minutes (and started before the time I linked), and when I do my run later on I fail it twice.. http://www.twitch.tv/bismuth9/c/2371773

Squeebles

2013-06-04 05:02:12 am

Okay about those turning platforms; When it starts turning don't your view or move around as(to my understanding) the game has immense trouble keeping track of Turok's position while he's moving both horizontally and vertically. As for the last platform, walk to the very end of the platform, first jump straight up and then right after after you land(on the same platform) jump forward into the tunnel. As accurately as I can tell in your video, you are starting your jump while stuck inside the platform or under the standing surface of the platform- I have that happen very often on the spinning platforms just before the end of the level, so I've concluded after notable study that the game has a lot of trouble letting the player land on top of a complicated and moving platform.

Bismuth

2013-06-06 01:47:24 am

Worthless categories WR master

Thanks for the info squeebles, I really believed it was actually the wooden post that prevented me from jumping.

Squeebles

2013-06-06 08:35:35 am

No problem, I'm glad to help ^u^

Bismuth

2013-07-18 09:21:39 pm

Worthless categories WR master

Would anyone be interested in racing the game on SRL? I think what would motivate me with Turok would be to have actual live competition. Either I learn those insane levels and cry, asking myself how could I ever do consistent runs in levels 4, 5, 6, either I try to go for sub-43 first 3 missions and die trying to get a sub-1:34 start because I won't ever be satisfied with any tiny minor mistake in the first 2 minutes, even if it takes me 1000 tries to get one started. Anyway, I would love it soooooo much if first 3 missions could become a popular category and that people were racing it. If you want I can even give you a list of reasons why I believe individual levels and first 3 missions to be the best categories.

I shall title this:
Reasons why First 3 missions is the best Turok 2: Seeds of Evil category in the world

1. At 45 minutes, it is in my opinion a great length for a race. It's long enough for it to matter and for it to not be all about nailing one thing or not missing one jump. Time can be made up when there are mistakes, it's not like say, SMB1. It can fit easily in a schedule, because it's shorter than one hour, you can always have a bit of spare time for a 3 missions race. And if you feel like it, you can rematch easily because you're not exhausted at the end of the run. I believe that 30 to 75 minutes is an excellent length for a race, while running the full game for 2:15, 2:30 can be more tiring.

2. There is almost no inconsistency. By inconsistency I mean RNG, random glitches, tricks that there is no setup for and the game allows you to perform them only when it feels like it (DK64 is a prime example for that). Killing monsters in one shot relies on luck, but most of the time it's not much of a problem. I mean, for key enemies whose deaths open doors, you may lose a second here and there due to no one-shots, but it really isn't a big deal. The only bigger trouble is the Death Marshes sentries, as they can take up to 10 or 15 seconds to kill and use up a lot of ammo.

3. Let's face it, the first 3 missions of the game are the most fun. River of Souls, Port of Adia are really the most enjoyable missions in the game and are the reason why I like it so much. Death Marshes isn't as fun but it's short and sweet, clocking in at just a tiny bit over 10 minutes. The music is great, the levels are beautiful. They are the best levels in the game. Primagen's Lightship also has great music though.

4. They are the most easy. Easy to learn, not so easy to master, no insane trick, setups for everything a bit precise (blue feather skip, primagen key 2 early), etc.

5. It can also mark half of the game, since you beat half of the levels. I think it's a fairly good line for a category: one half of the levels. The only thing I would believe could possibly go is the need to collect the keys for levels 4 and 5 and the primagen key, since if the goal is to beat the first 3 missions then there is no point in collecting those. I still include them in my runs because they are part of a normal any% route.

Please tell me if you are interested, anyone. You've got to at least try it!

Would anyone be interested in racing the game on SRL? I think what would motivate me with Turok would be to have actual live competition. Either I learn those insane levels and cry, asking myself how could I ever do consistent runs in levels 4, 5, 6, either I try to go for sub-43 first 3 missions and die trying to get a sub-1:34 start because I won't ever be satisfied with any tiny minor mistake in the first 2 minutes, even if it takes me 1000 tries to get one started. Anyway, I would love it soooooo much if first 3 missions could become a popular category and that people were racing it. If you want I can even give you a list of reasons why I believe individual levels and first 3 missions to be the best categories.

I shall title this:
Reasons why First 3 missions is the best Turok 2: Seeds of Evil category in the world

1. At 45 minutes, it is in my opinion a great length for a race. It's long enough for it to matter and for it to not be all about nailing one thing or not missing one jump. Time can be made up when there are mistakes, it's not like say, SMB1. It can fit easily in a schedule, because it's shorter than one hour, you can always have a bit of spare time for a 3 missions race. And if you feel like it, you can rematch easily because you're not exhausted at the end of the run. I believe that 30 to 75 minutes is an excellent length for a race, while running the full game for 2:15, 2:30 can be more tiring.

2. There is almost no inconsistency. By inconsistency I mean RNG, random glitches, tricks that there is no setup for and the game allows you to perform them only when it feels like it (DK64 is a prime example for that). Killing monsters in one shot relies on luck, but most of the time it's not much of a problem. I mean, for key enemies whose deaths open doors, you may lose a second here and there due to no one-shots, but it really isn't a big deal. The only bigger trouble is the Death Marshes sentries, as they can take up to 10 or 15 seconds to kill and use up a lot of ammo.

3. Let's face it, the first 3 missions of the game are the most fun. River of Souls, Port of Adia are really the most enjoyable missions in the game and are the reason why I like it so much. Death Marshes isn't as fun but it's short and sweet, clocking in at just a tiny bit over 10 minutes. The music is great, the levels are beautiful. They are the best levels in the game. Primagen's Lightship also has great music though.

4. They are the most easy. Easy to learn, not so easy to master, no insane trick, setups for everything a bit precise (blue feather skip, primagen key 2 early), etc.

5. It can also mark half of the game, since you beat half of the levels. I think it's a fairly good line for a category: one half of the levels. The only thing I would believe could possibly go is the need to collect the keys for levels 4 and 5 and the primagen key, since if the goal is to beat the first 3 missions then there is no point in collecting those. I still include them in my runs because they are part of a normal any% route.

Please tell me if you are interested, anyone. You've got to at least try it!

Veritate

2013-07-19 01:48:09 am

Maybe you just don't want to feel the pain of levels 4, 5 and 6. :-) (Which I personally believe to be the most fun. Except maybe 4, which is just… confusing.)

You know, your category would be like Super Mario 64 35-stars, or Zelda: LTTP lightworld-only. I don't really see the point of these. However, I think individual levels would be a proper category, as long as a general starting point can be agreed on.

Bismuth

Edit history:

Bismuth: 2013-07-19 11:50:31 am

2013-07-19 11:38:23 am

Worthless categories WR master

Yeah... I know first 3 missions is extremely arbitrary... Especially how I collect stuff like we do in the any% (keys, primagen key 2) but not primagen key 1 because it's usually done after RoS and I stop the timer after completing RoS. Maybe the name of the category could be "collect level 4 and 5 keys, primagen key 1 and 2, enter Hive of the Mantids-%"? Roll Eyes

As for individual levels, I believe the best would be to have saves that are done exactly after the level cutscene, like I did in my DM and RoS segmented runs. The rules would be that it is forbidden to have weapons from "later" levels, basically to have anything that you shouldn't have at this point in the game (for example torpedo launcher in River of Souls). Basically, what I did for my saves was that I did a run of PoA, I saved after entering DM, I did a segmented run of DM, I saved after entering RoS, then I did a segmented run of RoS.

Also, I just realized that this level order could actually be better for single-segment runs: 1-3-5-Pkey#3-Pkey#1-2-4-6. Here's my train of thought:

First, it gets the Hive out of the way faster. This way, instead of being an hour in, the insane P-key early trick would be around 35 minutes into the run. Since River of Souls doesn't get any great new weapon that Death Marshes doesn't provide, I don't think there would be any difference for the Hive.

Second, the travel distance in the Hub is reduced. Instead of going across from 3 to 2 and then across from 1 to 5, and then across from 3 to 4, you would go clockwise from 1 to 3 to 5, and then counter-clockwise from 5 to 3 to 1 to 2 to 4 to 6. It seems like a very small thing but in the end it's probably an extra 5-6 seconds.

Thoughts?

Yeah... I know first 3 missions is extremely arbitrary... Especially how I collect stuff like we do in the any% (keys, primagen key 2) but not primagen key 1 because it's usually done after RoS and I stop the timer after completing RoS. Maybe the name of the category could be "collect level 4 and 5 keys, primagen key 1 and 2, enter Hive of the Mantids-%"? ::)

As for individual levels, I believe the best would be to have saves that are done exactly after the level cutscene, like I did in my DM and RoS segmented runs. The rules would be that it is forbidden to have weapons from "later" levels, basically to have anything that you shouldn't have at this point in the game (for example torpedo launcher in River of Souls). Basically, what I did for my saves was that I did a run of PoA, I saved after entering DM, I did a segmented run of DM, I saved after entering RoS, then I did a segmented run of RoS.

Also, I just realized that this level order could actually be better for single-segment runs: 1-3-5-Pkey#3-Pkey#1-2-4-6. Here's my train of thought:

First, it gets the Hive out of the way faster. This way, instead of being an hour in, the insane P-key early trick would be around 35 minutes into the run. Since River of Souls doesn't get any great new weapon that Death Marshes doesn't provide, I don't think there would be any difference for the Hive.

Second, the travel distance in the Hub is reduced. Instead of going across from 3 to 2 and then across from 1 to 5, and then across from 3 to 4, you would go clockwise from 1 to 3 to 5, and then counter-clockwise from 5 to 3 to 1 to 2 to 4 to 6. It seems like a very small thing but in the end it's probably an extra 5-6 seconds.

Thoughts?