Turok 2 hard mode speed run

2011-07-26 08:16:19 am

Yea I'm guessing the fence has a barrier there both sides. Damn I thought you couldn't get back to the hub by backtracking on level 3. I thought the collapsed bridge was the only way but that was impossible. I forgot you can use the first armory area and drop down. That can save time on my run for sure. O well it's too late, save it for next test run.

Yeah the level 6 fan boost jump works, on PC at least and a full strafe jump is needed once again.

Hmm about all the damage boosting ideas. They could be worth considering if my health is ok to do that, but a lot of the time you have to run to a mantid while he's shooting you, messing my health just to get a damage boost. Remember my damage per hit is stupid on PC and most enemies are best to kill or be stunned. I'll snoop around for any opportunities on next test run though

I've saved it after going through the portal after doing the 2nd water purification and back in the main area with the P -key my and time is 1h and 51m. Man that last segment was a bitch. If I play too long on PC, constantly reloading segments the game suffers from severe slowdown when I load the segment. So I have to keep exiting to windows and then playing again to sort it out. I hope my friends PC doesn't do this. Another thing I'm concerned about is how many segments do I want. Ewil is right this game is random as hell in a lot of areas and it pays to save it everywhere, with the cost of only a second at maximum per save. The best time to save it is coming out of a portal because Turok is already at a stand still. If you save it while running you lose your speed when you reload the segment. There are many places though, especially in this level 6 where I ignored this just to get some places efficiently cleaned up. But I don't want my run to be painful to watch because I paused the game practically every 30 seconds to save it. There are some big segments in the first 3 levels but it's these last couple of levels where I'm saving it very often. I'm just wondering what peoples thoughts are on this. Whether they don't mind watching runs where there could be as many as 40 to 50 segments, and some of the later levels having very short segments.

Yea I'm guessing the fence has a barrier there both sides. Damn I thought you couldn't get back to the hub by backtracking on level 3. I thought the collapsed bridge was the only way but that was impossible. I forgot you can use the first armory area and drop down. That can save time on my run for sure. O well it's too late, save it for next test run.

Yeah the level 6 fan boost jump works, on PC at least and a full strafe jump is needed once again.

Hmm about all the damage boosting ideas. They could be worth considering if my health is ok to do that, but a lot of the time you have to run to a mantid while he's shooting you, messing my health just to get a damage boost. Remember my damage per hit is stupid on PC and most enemies are best to kill or be stunned. I'll snoop around for any opportunities on next test run though

I've saved it after going through the portal after doing the 2nd water purification and back in the main area with the P -key my and time is 1h and 51m. Man that last segment was a bitch.  If I play too long on PC, constantly reloading segments the game suffers from severe slowdown when I load the segment. So I have to keep exiting to windows and then playing again to sort it out. I hope my friends PC doesn't do this. Another thing I'm concerned about is how many segments do I want. Ewil is right this game is random as hell in a lot of areas and it pays to save it everywhere, with the cost of only a second at maximum per save. The best time to save it is coming out of a portal because Turok is already at a stand still. If you save it while running you lose your speed when you reload the segment. There are many places though, especially in this level 6 where I ignored this just to get some places efficiently cleaned up. But I don't want my run to be painful to watch because I paused the game practically every 30 seconds to save it. There are some big segments in the first 3 levels but it's these last couple of levels where I'm saving it very often.  I'm just wondering what peoples thoughts are on this. Whether they don't mind watching runs where there could be as many as 40 to 50 segments, and some of the later levels having very short segments.

Squeebles

2011-07-27 04:18:22 am

On level 3 what I do is completely finish the level, step back into the portal after exiting, and drop down in the water at the beginning to get on to the next map(with the torpedo launcher this is amazingly fast and efficient). Then I go forward until the start of the map where the gunner attacks you right after you turn the corner and drop down in the water(the entrance leading to the P-key is right there). From there it's a quick and easy death warp back.

On level 5, sorry about forgetting the damage difference again, just brainstorming.

Lastly about the total segments- I realize that some people will be bothered by it, but Turok 2 is a special case and editing out the random bullshit strikes me as being more important than having a reasonably low number of segments.

Ewil

2011-07-27 07:07:14 am

It's completely fine to have many segments for just one long level, only if it's not every 30 seconds or so like Crysis Warhead or Half-Life.

giganotabehemoth87

2011-07-27 08:50:54 am

Yeah it's really just some parts of level 6 and some parts of level 5 where some segments are around the 30 second range. It's usually only to get perfect shots on some crucial enemies while running that drop important ammunition. I think also I was battling the slowdown that my PC starts to induce after a while. Who knows maybe my mates PC will hold up a lot better and longer segments can be put in place instead.

I should be able to finish this test run today. I just have the mother boss and Primagen to beat. My time before the end of level portal is 2 hours and 2 minutes.

Phazon

2011-07-27 09:42:00 am

I've been keeping an eye on this thread for a while. I'm really looking forward to this run and I personally am happy with any amount of segments so long as it results in a better speedrun overall. Will you upload the test run?

giganotabehemoth87

2011-07-27 10:25:50 am

thanks very much !. Seems loads of segments is an ok thing then Cheesy

No I'm not even recording this one. this is just to see what kind of time is capable and what i should aim for on the actual attempt. For the said recordings: I'll be recording it bit by bit each fortnight I go round my friends house. Hopefully I'll have a full run to show you before this year is up.

Phazon

2011-07-27 10:42:47 am

Aw man, I don't think I can wait that long Tongue

Good luck with the run though, I'm sure it'll be awesome.

giganotabehemoth87

2011-07-28 06:32:38 pm

Well any time before this year is up, not necessarily in December though.

Well I've finished my test run. The mother boss is the easiest boss in the game taking just over 2 minutes to kill. I concluded the best weapon for all phases is actually the shredder with normal shells. The ricochet can occur inside the arms I'm fairly certain, doing as much as double the power, ending the phase quickly. Same for the next round with the longer arms, and also round 3 at the head. I tried using razor wind on the head but it's actually slower because the damn thing takes too long to come back to Turoks hand. Shredder was just best overall really. There are stronger weapons of course but in the same vein as Razor wind, are just too slow a rate of fire. Firestorm cannon on the other hand is just a little too weak so that's slower too.

I saved some explosive shells for Primagen. The first phase actually being the hardest with his 4 antennas. I thought the flamethrower would be best on them but it wasn't as helpful as I'd hoped. I'd like to ask what you use for the 4 antennas ?. 2nd and 3rd phases are easy and the explosive shredder mops him up easy and in no time. You can't skip the end cut-scene or Adon talking but you can skip the credits, I don't know if that's the same for N64 ?

Anyway I save it and my final time is around the 2 hour 13 minutes mark every time, with some room for improvement on the Primagen. Which means that he takes around 8 to 9 minutes to kill, because my save after mother boss was 2 hours and 4 minutes. So yeah I can't see subbing 2 hours feasible, but subbing 2 hours 10 minutes I think is possible so that might be the goal.

I had a thought recently about the backtracks to get some of the Primagen keys. Unless I'm wrong about the warping in the cheat menu, but arn't each level you've visited and beaten, accessable through just warping too them ? So once you get a Primagen key, just pause the game and warp straight to wherever you need to go next.

Well any time before this year is up, not necessarily in December though.

Well I've finished my test run. The mother boss is the easiest boss in the game taking just over 2 minutes to kill. I concluded the best weapon for all phases is actually the shredder with normal shells. The ricochet can occur inside the arms I'm fairly certain, doing as much as double the power, ending the phase quickly. Same for the next round with the longer arms, and also round 3 at the head. I tried using razor wind on the head but it's actually slower because the damn thing takes too long to come back to Turoks hand. Shredder was just best overall really. There are stronger weapons of course but in the same vein as Razor wind, are just too slow a rate of fire. Firestorm cannon on the other hand is just a little too weak so that's slower too.

I saved some explosive shells for Primagen. The first phase actually being the hardest with his 4 antennas. I thought the flamethrower would be best on them but it wasn't as helpful as I'd hoped. I'd like to ask what you use for the 4 antennas ?. 2nd and 3rd phases are easy and the explosive shredder mops him up easy and in no time. You can't skip the end cut-scene or Adon talking but you can skip the credits, I don't know if that's the same for N64 ?

Anyway I save it and my final time is around the 2 hour 13 minutes mark every time, with some room for improvement on the Primagen. Which means that he takes around 8 to 9 minutes to kill, because my save after mother boss was 2 hours and 4 minutes. So yeah I can't see subbing 2 hours feasible, but subbing 2 hours 10 minutes I think is possible so that might be the goal.

I had a thought recently about the backtracks to get some of the Primagen keys. Unless I'm wrong about the warping in the cheat menu, but arn't each level you've visited and beaten, accessable through just warping too them ? So once you get a Primagen key, just pause the game and warp straight to wherever you need to go next.

Squeebles

Edit history:

Squeebles: 2011-07-29 06:28:39 am

Squeebles: 2011-07-29 06:25:46 am

2011-07-29 06:23:58 am

Man, sounds like even more huge differences between the versions.. Anyways for round 1 of the Primagen boss our guy Marshmallow seems to have had the best idea in his run; Grenade Launcher anywhere near his upper body, for some reason gets counted as hitting the antennae. That is of course, unless the PC works differently in that regard. As for the Mother boss, I've always had painfully mixed results using the green shell shredder on any of her attack phases and more often than not the shot simply hits 1 to three times with the shrapnel bouncing away. As for the P-key backtracking, if the PC version has warping in the normal options menu I imagine warping would be allowed by SDA but if it's listed in the cheat menu they'd probably call a foul on using it.

Also, about the ammo- It's generally a good idea to make sure one of your P-key backtracks includes the use of a save portal for an ammo restock, unless you're dead certain you've got enough from the get go.

aleckermit

Edit history:

aleckermit: 2011-07-29 03:07:38 pm

2011-07-29 03:06:49 pm

Hi, just wanted to say I'm really looking forward to the run.

Also, since you're into Turok 2 I thought this video I made would interest you. It shows lots of the beta changes made to the game before release on N64/PC. GOt my hands on a kiosk demo cart of Turok 2 about a year ago and just now got around to documenting it's beta stuff. There's LOTS of cool weapon differences:

Squeebles

2011-07-30 11:17:09 am

Nifty stuff aleckermit, thanks for sharing! Also, I would've loved to try that beta shredder out in the final game- Maybe they could've made it an unlockable after beating the game on hard mode?...

giganotabehemoth87

2011-07-31 09:17:47 am

Squeebles - Nice, I don't think I tried the grenade launcher. Hopefully it's really effective for me on the Primagen first phase.

Yeah shredder really is best for me on Mother boss. I think again it's due to the precision aiming. I find if you shoot at the top of the arm nearer to the shoulder the shot seemingly enters the arm and does a bit more damage. You can break an arm fully in just 3 shots this way. But I know the precise aiming on an N64 pad would make this tricky.

I'll start another test run soon and find out if completed levels allow warping to when on another level. The reason why I can't just find out now is because when I started the last test run, I had done a little play around earlier using the big cheat. So all the cheats were activated and warping to any level was accessible too. When I started the test run moments later, the big cheat unbeknown to me stayed active, although all the cheats were off of course. So at the bottom of my cheats list on my test run the levels were available to be warped too. So I don't know if that's because the big cheat allowed it or whether I just could because I had done all the levels. Either way I'll find out very soon.

Personally I think if the levels turn out to be available for warping because of prior completion I can't see anything wrong with using that in the backtrack part of the run, regardless of it being on the cheats list. I mean even when you haven't typed any cheat passwords, all the cheats are greyed out apart from the warp icon. Almost as if it isn't thought of as a cheat, more a convenience tool. Funny you should mention restocking ammo on the way out of a level after collecting a P - key. I did this for the level 3 key, and it really helped for the oncoming level 6.

aleckermit - That's a cool video. Some of that I wish made it into the retail. The mag 60 looked and sounded way more destructive along with a few other things. It's cool to see some people looking forward to this run too Grin

Squeebles - Nice, I don't think I tried the grenade launcher. Hopefully it's really effective for me on the Primagen first phase.

Yeah shredder really is best for me on Mother boss. I think again it's due to the precision aiming. I find if you shoot at the top of the arm nearer to the shoulder the shot seemingly enters the arm and does a bit more damage. You can break an arm fully in just 3 shots this way. But I know the precise aiming on an N64 pad would make this tricky.

I'll start another test run soon and find out if completed levels allow warping to when on another level. The reason why I can't just find out now is because when I started the last test run, I had done a little play around earlier using the big cheat. So all the cheats were activated and warping to any level was accessible too. When I started the test run moments later, the big cheat unbeknown to me stayed active, although all the cheats were off of course. So at the bottom of my cheats list on my test run the levels were available to be warped too. So I don't know if that's because the big cheat allowed it or whether I just could because I had done all the levels. Either way I'll find out very soon.

Personally I think if the levels turn out to be available for warping because of prior completion I can't see anything wrong with using that in the backtrack part of the run, regardless of it being on the cheats list. I mean even when you haven't typed any cheat passwords, all the cheats are greyed out apart from the warp icon. Almost as if it isn't thought of as a cheat, more a convenience tool. Funny you should mention restocking ammo on the way out of a level after collecting a P - key. I did this for the level 3 key, and it really helped for the oncoming level 6.

aleckermit - That's a cool video. Some of that I wish made it into the retail. The mag 60 looked and sounded way more destructive along with a few other things. It's cool to see some people looking forward to this run too ;D

ridd3r.

2011-07-31 09:40:54 am

we have lift off

Any chance of posting your test run?

giganotabehemoth87

2011-07-31 09:45:16 am

Unfortunately not. I don't have any good specs on my PC to be able to play this game and record using Fraps at the same time. My friends PC does though which is what I'll use to record my actual run piece by piece over the coming months. I'll do one more test run here at home just to iron out some stuff in the run and check a few things.

Phazon

2011-07-31 10:56:15 am

You could record it with a low quality camcorder on a stool infront of your TV and I'd still want to watch it lol. I'm pretty eager to see a run of this game.

Squeebles

Edit history:

Squeebles: 2011-08-01 06:26:18 am

2011-08-01 06:22:00 am

There's another possible difference between the N64 and PC- As I remember it the cheat menu starts with only one warp available- the credits screen. Now I admit I've never tested it but I don't think you simply get the warp options as you beat the levels. I'll test that out soon enough though.

Also, to Phazon- If you live in the U.S. and you're comfortable letting me know your mailing address I would have no problem sending you the VHS of my 2H 57M run. Having found out that SDA no longer accepts VHS submissions I no longer have any important use for it anyways. Also, let it be noted that Marshmallow did a run and put it up on this site for download(in something like 8 segments if I remember correctly). His run however lacked any trick/glitch/intentional death warp knowledge so it might not strike your fancy if you're looking forward to a fully decorated run.

giganotabehemoth87

Edit history:

giganotabehemoth87: 2011-08-01 07:13:38 am

2011-08-01 07:12:50 am

Yeah, well I completed level 1 and 3 and the warp options remain as just credits. So both versions are the same in that regard. Seems almost pointless that they put it there at all...

Marshmallow's run is also quite dark. That's one thing I'm going to make sure I do is have brightness set to number 8 in the options before I start my run Grin

Squeebles

2011-08-01 08:15:55 am

Ah yes, if I may recommend it has been my experience that it's best to go with 6 or less on the brightness; If you put it at 7 or 8 there's almost no shading at all and it really ruins the movie-esque qualities of the levels. This may just be my opinion, but I think that it's important to look at these things like a movie director if you're going to have everybody watching it ^.^

giganotabehemoth87

2011-08-01 08:29:04 am

hehe, well sometimes I struggle to see in the very dark areas (like deep underwater) even on maximum brightness and it always looks quite nice to me everywhere else. Maybe my room is too bright and it's hard to see some stuff on my screen. I know what your saying though and this game is gorgeous even though it has old graphics

Squeebles

2011-08-01 08:57:08 am

Yeah, I know what you mean there. It's just too bad they had to put in that effect when they required you to do a fair amount of deep diving as well. As for the beauty of the game I think it has everything to do with their use of color. You'll notice that even in the Primagen's lightship, which is entirely made of metal, they manage to throw in at least a few bits of colored lighting(red near lazers, green near the power generators) and by comparison every other FPS I've either played or seen goes almost entirely with pure white lighting. This is especially bad in games that use a lot of grey or green background textures.

giganotabehemoth87

2011-08-01 09:04:23 am

Yeah totally. Although new games of this ilk look amazingly realistic they all look quite the same and have that grey look to give it that edgy tough man sort of look. This game and a few others were the last of it's type where it was still about escapism. Just my opinion. I don't play a lot of newer games. Something is just missing in them. Maybe it's just the whole "games should be realistic these days" that I just don't care for at all. I think games like the Metroid Prime games, although are relatively new, they harken back to a time long before the new millenium with it's bold, bright colours. The context of the metroid games though are probably the reason for these sort of art choices

Phazon

2011-08-02 03:32:06 am

Squeebles: Thanks for the offer, but I'm not American and I don't have a VHS. I've known about Marshmallow's run for a long time, but I really mean a run with all the tricks I've seen mentioned in this thread.

Squeebles

2011-08-02 06:00:26 am

Alright then, 'till Giganotabehemoth's run is completed I hope you find plenty of other entertainment to ease the wait -nod-

Squeebles

Edit history:

Squeebles: 2011-08-02 10:57:02 am

2011-08-02 10:42:11 am

Also, if I may get back to your thoughts on newer games Giganotabehemoth- I think along with artistic direction being less important another really big thing in newer games is a stricter focus on linear game play. Obviously in the Turok games you could choose between two levels during most of the game for example, and I remember that in Duke Nukem Zero Hour there were often branching paths that you could do in different order. By comparison the new FPS games seem set up like a movie; Scene 2 follows scene one, and you can only slightly alter the look of how each scene plays out. Similarly I'd say the new big wave of carrying limited weapons tends to greatly limit the experimentation that players do with their weapons, in most cases there are only three weapons in those games that are worth carrying so other weapons are entirely overlooked. I saw this especially often in the walkthrough of Duke Nukem Forever- The ripper/chaingun cannon, sniper rifle, and rocket launcher were the only weapons I saw being regularly used as all the others seemed too difficult to kill with at medium to long range. Unfortunately I still cannot say if there's a way for the industry to correct this path so I as well have a very pessimistic view of where modern FPS games are headed...

Also, if I may get back to your thoughts on newer games Giganotabehemoth- I think along with artistic direction being less important another really big thing in newer games is a stricter focus on linear game play.  Obviously in the Turok games you could choose between two levels during most of the game for example, and I remember that in Duke Nukem Zero Hour there were often branching paths that you could do in different order.  By comparison the new FPS games seem set up like a movie; Scene 2 follows scene one, and you can only slightly alter the look of how each scene plays out.  Similarly I'd say the new big wave of carrying limited weapons tends to greatly limit the experimentation that players do with their weapons, in most cases there are only three weapons in those games that are worth carrying so other weapons are entirely overlooked.  I saw this especially often in the walkthrough of Duke Nukem Forever- The ripper/chaingun cannon, sniper rifle, and rocket launcher were the only weapons I saw being regularly used as all the others seemed too difficult to kill with at medium to long range.  Unfortunately I still cannot say if there's a way for the industry to correct this path so I as well have a very pessimistic view of where modern FPS games are headed...

giganotabehemoth87

Edit history:

giganotabehemoth87: 2011-08-02 05:42:57 pm

2011-08-02 05:42:33 pm

Indeed, I couldn't agree more. There seems to be more replay value on older fps games I think. Being able to just miraculously carry every single weapon and mess around/experiment. That's where it's at for me.

Quote from Squeebles:

Alright then, 'till Giganotabehemoth's run is completed I hope you find plenty of other entertainment to ease the wait -nod-

Yikes I haven't started yet :o. If it's any consolation, I will most definitely upload each level to youtube upon their completion. I have a feeling I won't be able to sub 13 minutes on port of adia, even with all the water boosts. It must be some of the enemies that have to be killed. Where as Ewil's easy mode run - most if not all enemies can be killed instantly or ignored altogether with minimal health lost. I came to this conclusion because on my first (and very optimal) test run I still got 13:40 something.