The warp in Donkey Kong Country

2006-12-01 04:06:50 pm

you can still see the run if it is not on sda. the runner can upload it to archive.org or youtube. if there's enough interest then i will even capture it.

the reason for not allowing it is that if we allow this warp, then other mysterious glitches will be allowed (as separate categories), and the work load for the sda team will easily increase by several times. already we can barely keep up with the number of runs coming in, so you understand this would probably be fatal for the site.

like i said before, this is a rules judgment, not a value judgment. the warp run is not any "worse" than the non-warp run, it's just that we can't have both on sda, because we don't have enough time. i am fully aware that these judgments are making us look like tg, but there is a difference between them that i have tried to explain in this post.

slYnki

Edit history:

slYnki: 2006-12-01 04:25:23 pm

2006-12-01 04:24:28 pm

XXY

Quote:

It's not the fact that I wanted to make the run, for I can "just" make a full any% instead and send it in, that would look more impressive anyway. It's just that no one can tell if it is a glitch or not. That's like my whole point. It's only what you think yourself. Some here says it should be allowed, some says not.
Whatever, I'll make a full rune instead.

I just watched the video Rael posted (atleast the warping part), then I read this post, and I completely misunderstood. That IS a tricky warp to decipher, holy hell o_O!

That almost seems intentional like a warp barrel, but everything about it speaks glitch, yet it doesn't... but it does!

Quote:

the reason for not allowing it is that if we allow this warp, then other mysterious glitches will be allowed (as separate categories)

Other mysterious glitches will be allowed, or will other mysterious glitches HAVE to be allowed, as a result of angry members? This warp is pretty damn tricky, but I think the best outcome for this situation would be to just do a full run, and mention the warp somewhere in the comments for the sake of it.

[quote]It's not the fact that I wanted to make the run, for I can "just" make a full any% instead and send it in, that would look more impressive anyway. It's just that no one can tell if it is a glitch or not. That's like my whole point. It's only what you think yourself. Some here says it should be allowed, some says not.
Whatever, I'll make a full rune instead.[/quote]
I just watched the video Rael posted (atleast the warping part), then I read this post, and I completely misunderstood. That IS a tricky warp to decipher, holy hell o_O!

That almost seems intentional like a warp barrel, but everything about it speaks glitch, yet it doesn't... but it does!

[quote]the reason for not allowing it is that if we allow this warp, then other mysterious glitches will be allowed (as separate categories)[/quote]
Other mysterious glitches will be allowed, or will other mysterious glitches HAVE to be allowed, as a result of angry members? This warp is pretty damn tricky, but I think the best outcome for this situation would be to just do a full run, and mention the warp somewhere in the comments for the sake of it.

nate

2006-12-01 04:28:38 pm

it's not fair to not allow others.

DTaeKim

2006-12-01 07:04:21 pm

How the heck do you do it? I've never seen that warp before.

Tompa

2006-12-01 08:01:58 pm

Quote:

How the heck do you do it? I've never seen that warp before.

You need one monkey (Or two in the Planebarrel) when you are between the first two maps you press B, and you will warp away. There are 3 more places in world 1 that this can be done. 3 of them leads to the same level, and the 4:th one leads to the second level in the game.

slYnki

Edit history:

slYnki: 2006-12-01 11:18:26 pm

2006-12-01 11:17:34 pm

XXY

Quote:

it's not fair to not allow others.

Thought so. But seeing this warp in action, it really does seem legit, despite its creepy, mysterious nature. It has probably been researched extensively, but is there ANY website that documents this warp as purposeful?

Psychochild

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Psychochild: 2006-12-02 03:54:30 pm

2006-12-02 03:54:00 pm

Why doesn't someone check to see if it works in the Game Boy Advance release of Donkey Kong Country? If it's there, it has to be deliberate since that was far more than a simple port job and such a huge glaring error would've been fixed otherwise.

nate

Edit history:

nate: 2006-12-02 05:24:57 pm

2006-12-02 05:24:03 pm

yeah, that's a good idea.

if it's there imo it's still not conclusive it was intended ... because it is possible, however unlikely, that the porters did not know about it and it snuck over. however if it's not there then it's safe to say it was not intended and is a severe mysterious teleportation glitch.

Gob_Bluth

2006-12-02 07:37:35 pm

where is this warp in the game?

Is there a video of it on the net?

slYnki

Edit history:

slYnki: 2006-12-02 07:59:36 pm

2006-12-02 07:52:32 pm

XXY

Quote:

where is this warp in the game?

Is there a video of it on the net?

Quote:

Flash forward to ~ 0:54.

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however if it's not there then it's safe to say it was not intended and is a severe mysterious teleportation glitch.

If in the event this is true, this begs the question of just how that warp works anyways.... Yeah, I know you need one monkey and blah, but that doesn't answer my question. Is there any logical explanation embedded somewhere in the game's coding that explains just why if you perform these specific tasks and press B or whatever, that you can magically teleport far into the game? Is it possible that that sort of bug can go overlooked? I suppose so since people found it @_@;

But I guess if it's not there in the GameBoy version, then I suppose it's safe to say something is seriously wrong here = )

... but isn't there vast differences between console versions and handheld versions anyways? Ah well, such confusion is not needed for SDA.

[quote]where is this warp in the game?

Is there a video of it on the net?[/quote]
[quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT_0RmoEbyY 
Flash forward to ~ 0:54.[/quote]

[quote]however if it's not there then it's safe to say it was not intended and is a severe mysterious teleportation glitch.[/quote]
If in the event this is true, this begs the question of just how that warp works anyways.... Yeah, I know you need one monkey and blah, but that doesn't answer my question. Is there any logical explanation embedded somewhere in the game's coding that explains just why if you perform these specific tasks and press B or whatever, that you can magically teleport far into the game? Is it possible that that sort of bug can go overlooked? I suppose so since people found it @_@;

But I guess if it's not there in the GameBoy version, then I suppose it's safe to say something is seriously wrong here = )

... but isn't there vast differences between console versions and handheld versions anyways? Ah well, such confusion is not needed for SDA.

Psychochild

Edit history:

Psychochild: 2006-12-02 08:42:11 pm

2006-12-02 08:39:41 pm

On Donkey Kong Country, there's a lot of changes to the collision detection where you can be ascending in a leap, hit a kremling in the upper half of the sprite and instead bounce off it harmlessly instead of losing a monkey or dying like the SNES game. A lot of stuff in the Donkey Kong Country 2 GBA run (Namely Blackwater Marsh) can't be done on the SNES in the same way.

There's also a LOT of new mini-games included, there's a save anywhere function in the game (Candy's Save Stations have since been changed to Dance Dance Revolution type of mini games), warp barrels have a special transitional hallway instead of being a direct warp, there's minor changes in levels, bosses have since been changed to be more unique and challenging among them (Ice Gnawty drops icicles from the ceiling for instance, Queen B takes a few pages from DKC2's King Sting), new maps, new level orders (DKC3 is the worse offender, with all of the stages in the Forest World completely out of original order, Castle Crush in DKC2 has also been changed from its original spot with Windy Well, I believe, and in DKC, similar story but I forget which stages) and new maps to go along with the changes from level to level.

The GBA DKCs are much more of a non-graphical remake than a port. DKC2 has a ton of new mini games that must be completed for DK coins and a new boss along with the really fun Diddy Dash mode, DKC3 has new mini games, a new world (With the Bonus and DK coins too), new banana bird placement I believe for some, and a new boss.

The games really seem to have been completely rebuilt if you asked me, and I wouldn't at all be surprised that among these changes, they removed the mysterious teleport as it's a widely known glitch.

On Donkey Kong Country, there's a lot of changes to the collision detection where you can be ascending in a leap, hit a kremling in the upper half of the sprite and instead bounce off it harmlessly instead of losing a monkey or dying like the SNES game.  A lot of stuff in the Donkey Kong Country 2 GBA run (Namely Blackwater Marsh) can't be done on the SNES in the same way.

There's also a LOT of new mini-games included, there's a save anywhere function in the game (Candy's Save Stations have since been changed to Dance Dance Revolution type of mini games), warp barrels have a special transitional hallway instead of being a direct warp, there's minor changes in levels, bosses have since been changed to be more unique and challenging among them (Ice Gnawty drops icicles from the ceiling for instance, Queen B takes a few pages from DKC2's King Sting), new maps, new level orders (DKC3 is the worse offender, with all of the stages in the Forest World completely out of original order, Castle Crush in DKC2 has also been changed from its original spot with Windy Well, I believe, and in DKC, similar story but I forget which stages) and new maps to go along with the changes from level to level.

The GBA DKCs are much more of a non-graphical remake than a port.  DKC2 has a ton of new mini games that must be completed for DK coins and a new boss along with the really fun Diddy Dash mode, DKC3 has new mini games, a new world (With the Bonus and DK coins too), new banana bird placement I believe for some, and a new boss.

The games really seem to have been completely rebuilt if you asked me, and I wouldn't at all be surprised that among these changes, they removed the mysterious teleport as it's a widely known glitch.

nate

2006-12-02 09:28:41 pm

yeah, that's why i was saying that it won't necessarily tell us anything, but now you just expanded that to make it go both ways unfortunately.

slYnki

Edit history:

slYnki: 2006-12-03 02:57:07 am

2006-12-03 02:56:53 am

XXY

Always could go both ways. But I watched the TAS a little more closely, and he shoots out of a barrel after performing the warp... Coincidence? <_<;

Chanoire

2006-12-03 10:46:37 am

What about checking the Game Boy Color release? I only played a little of it before loaning it to my sister several years ago, and it wasn't until last year that I played the SNES game, but I don't recall them being drastically different... certainly not to the degree Psychochild describes regarding the GBA remake.

Tompa

2006-12-03 12:25:17 pm

The gamemap is a bit different in the GBC version, there's no walkpath between the levels really... So you can't do the warp. It's different in all versions...

Gob_Bluth

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Gob_Bluth: 2006-12-03 10:30:24 pm

2006-12-03 10:30:11 pm

Holy crap I feel like a jackass for missing the video link on the 2nd page.

What we know about Rare from the GoldenEye and Banjo-Kazooie games is that they hide major cheats in their games so I wouldn't be surprised that if you press a button to activate this warp, that this warp was their on purpose.

Frezy_man

Edit history:

Frezy_man: 2006-12-05 07:35:00 am

2006-12-05 07:34:45 am

bläää

Quote:

Always could go both ways. But I watched the TAS a little more closely, and he shoots out of a barrel after performing the warp... Coincidence? <_<;

The barrel... Isn´t that a proof? That Its not a mysterious warp. I recognized this yesterday when I played the game too Kiss

mjf314

2006-12-05 08:55:41 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

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Then if cheat codes were intentionally programmed into the game and not mysterious does that mean we get to use it? >_>

I think it would depend what kind of cheat code it is and whether or not it's interesting. Most would probably be banned, but something like a "hard mode" might be interesting.

slYnki

2006-12-06 05:03:31 pm

XXY

I watched the run again without listening to music (=D) and you can plainly see that he shoots out of a barrel, plus you can plainly hear it like no tomorrow. Case closed mb?

Lazylen

2006-12-14 05:11:28 am

fuck you i wont do what you tell me

Quote:

I watched the run again without listening to music (=D) and you can plainly see that he shoots out of a barrel, plus you can plainly hear it like no tomorrow. Case closed mb?

not really, i was thinking the same thing, but the barrel could be there for another purpose, just sitting there as an accidental programming flaw (or there are barrels at the top of all the levels if you go too high). Stating that, he could have fallen from above into the barrel, making it a mysterious warp.

I support the "Out-of-Bounds" rule, b/c if you let that in, there will be 5 new run categories for all 3 3d metroid titles, multiple changes to the way that doom/quake is done, among half-life and a ton of other FPShooters.

saying that, mysterious warping would breach the "Out-of-Bounds" rule, because you can be everywhere in the game, yet nowhere at exactly the same time, and there is no way that anyone can tell, because you just suddenly appear elsewhere.

the barrel sound is legitimate though.

[quote]I watched the run again without listening to music (=D) and you can plainly see that he shoots out of a barrel, plus you can plainly hear it like no tomorrow. Case closed mb?[/quote]

not really, i was thinking the same thing, but the barrel could be there for another purpose, just sitting there as an accidental programming flaw (or there are barrels at the top of all the levels if you go too high).  Stating that, he could have fallen from above into the barrel, making it a mysterious warp.

I support the "Out-of-Bounds" rule, b/c if you let that in, there will be 5 new run categories for all 3 3d metroid titles, multiple changes to the way that doom/quake is done, among half-life and a ton of other FPShooters.

saying that, mysterious warping would breach the "Out-of-Bounds" rule, because you can be everywhere in the game, yet nowhere at exactly the same time, and there is no way that anyone can tell, because you just suddenly appear elsewhere.

the barrel sound is legitimate though.

Tompa

2006-12-14 06:02:18 am

The barrel he shoots out from is the same barrel as you shoot out from if take one of the bonuses on the level. It's the same thing at all the 3 warp places, you appear from a bonus barrel. So you don't just appear somewhere on the level, that's SO wrong.

StrangenessDSS

Edit history:

StrangenessDSS: 2006-12-14 04:56:10 pm

2006-12-14 04:54:31 pm

Sleeping Terror

You know... appearing in a barrel like that makes it more likely that the warp is a programming error, the way I see it.

Each time you change screens - from the map screen to a level, or from a bonus to somewhere in a level - the game needs to know where to put you. So, let's say each of the places where you can do this has a value marking where you go, and the game looks up where to put you based on that value. The map point for the first level might be marked 01, which would lead you to the beginning of the first level... the exit for bonus #34 might be marked 7C, which would lead you to wherever that bonus exits. And so on.

Now, mostly, the map has levels connected by straight lines. Why are there bent lines in the first world? Perhaps they were going to add levels there, but decided not to, and didn't want to redraw the map. Perhaps the artists just drew a map with bent lines for no reason. It seems likely that the map was programmed to be composed of straight lines running between two endpoints... and when they had to add bent lines, they just made a special type of point that pushed you onto the next level instead of letting you stop there.

Of course, aside from this point automatically pushing you further along the path, it wasn't supposed to let you enter it, unlike every other point on the map. But, somehow, you can enter it under certain conditions. Now, where would you go if you did enter it? To the place named by the value associated with the point, of course! Except, that point isn't supposed to be entered, so they wouldn't pay any attention to what value is associated with it... meaning you'd go somewhere unusual, but probably somewhere you'd normally appear from a different point. Which, as I understand it, is exactly what happens.

I have no idea if this is how the warp works, or not. But it seems reasonable. Same general principle as Metroid's secret worlds; finding a way to make the game access and use data that's not supposed to be used...

You know... appearing in a barrel like that makes it [i]more[/i] likely that the warp is a programming error, the way I see it.

Each time you change screens - from the map screen to a level, or from a bonus to somewhere in a level - the game needs to know where to put you. So, let's say each of the places where you can do this has a value marking where you go, and the game looks up where to put you based on that value. The map point for the first level might be marked 01, which would lead you to the beginning of the first level... the exit for bonus #34 might be marked 7C, which would lead you to wherever that bonus exits. And so on.

Now, mostly, the map has levels connected by straight lines. Why are there bent lines in the first world? Perhaps they were going to add levels there, but decided not to, and didn't want to redraw the map. Perhaps the artists just drew a map with bent lines for no reason. It seems likely that the map was programmed to be composed of straight lines running between two endpoints... and when they had to add bent lines, they just made a special type of point that pushed you onto the next level instead of letting you stop there.

Of course, aside from this point automatically pushing you further along the path, it wasn't supposed to let you enter it, unlike every other point on the map. But, somehow, you [i]can[/i] enter it under certain conditions. Now, where would you go if you did enter it? To the place named by the value associated with the point, of course! Except, that point isn't supposed to be entered, so they wouldn't pay any attention to what value is associated with it... meaning you'd go somewhere unusual, but probably somewhere you'd normally appear from a different point. Which, as I understand it, is exactly what happens.

I have no idea if this is how the warp works, or not. But it seems reasonable. Same general principle as Metroid's secret worlds; finding a way to make the game access and use data that's not supposed to be used...

Tompa

2006-12-14 05:00:34 pm

I just wanted to prove that what lazylen said was wrong, hehe :P. And I do actually agree that it even makes it more mysterious.
I have actually dropped the discussion about the warp as I'm not going to make that kind of run anyway. But still, no one knows if it is a glitch or not ;).

Lazylen

Edit history:

Lazylen: 2006-12-15 04:31:23 am

2006-12-15 04:29:41 am

fuck you i wont do what you tell me

Quote:

I just wanted to prove that what lazylen said was wrong, hehe :P. And I do actually agree that it even makes it more mysterious.
I have actually dropped the discussion about the warp as I'm not going to make that kind of run anyway. But still, no one knows if it is a glitch or not ;).

Quote:

not really, i was thinking the same thing, but the barrel could be there for another purpose, just sitting there as an accidental programming flaw (or there are barrels at the top of all the levels if you go too high). Stating that, he could have fallen from above into the barrel, making it a mysterious warp.

the barrel sound is legitimate though.

if it was an easter egg, it would have been included in that months' issue of nintendo power, or at least in one of the following ones. It's most likely a very weird glitch. It's also likely that if it were legitimate, Rare would have probably hinted toward it, or made some sort of hidden sign toward it in the game.

[quote]I just wanted to prove that what lazylen said was wrong, hehe :P. And I do actually agree that it even makes it more mysterious. 
I have actually dropped the discussion about the warp as I'm not going to make that kind of run anyway. But still, no one knows if it is a glitch or not ;).[/quote]

[quote]

not really, i was thinking the same thing, but [b]the barrel could be there for another purpose[/b], just sitting there as an accidental programming flaw (or there are barrels at the top of all the levels if you go too high).  Stating that, he [b]could have fallen from above into the barrel, making it a mysterious warp. [/b]

the barrel sound is legitimate though.
[/quote]

if it was an easter egg, it would have been included in that months' issue of nintendo power, or at least in one of the following ones. It's most likely a very weird glitch. It's also likely that if it were legitimate, Rare would have probably hinted toward it, or made some sort of hidden sign toward it in the game.

ninetigerr

2006-12-21 02:14:20 am

After you complete the game, with the cast of characters flying across the screen, Cranky claims he finished the game in one life and in less than an hour. Could that be a hint?