The warp in Donkey Kong Country

2006-11-30 06:01:52 am

So.. I heard that you disallow it, Radix... Why really? No one knows if it is a glitch or not, and I have been working with this run quite a lot thinking that there couldn't possible be any reason to disallow it. But now there are. Cry

Thread title:

nate

2006-11-30 06:22:41 am

mysterious teleporting.

Tompa

Edit history:

Tompa: 2006-11-30 08:42:30 am

2006-11-30 08:35:07 am

The only mysterious thing is that we don't know if it is a glitch or some kind of easter egg... Oh well, I guess Iäll have to drop the run then.
LAME!

EDIT: Why not just make it a different category? Why not disallow the Super MArio 64 run and remove it from the site? I can NOT see the difference between the "Stair glitch" in SM64 and the Warp "glitch" in DKC... SEriously!!

StrangenessDSS

2006-11-30 11:39:31 am

Sleeping Terror

The stair glitch increases your speed to the point where you're on one side of the wall/trigger on one frame, and on the other side on the next frame, without ever hitting the wall. The mechanics are quite simple to anyone who understands how the game world is programmed. It's not very mysterious, and it's no more teleportation than normal movement is teleportation... except in degree.

The DKC teleport, on the other hand, isn't part of any game mechanics we understand. It doesn't make sense, but it works somehow. It's mysterious. I'd go so far as to say that this glitch is one of the best-known examples of mysterious teleportation.

Tompa

2006-11-30 12:20:40 pm

I think you made the wrong decision there... But I guess that I shall quit the run anyway then. Or els make it a full run. SIGH.

Bag_of_Magic_Food

2006-11-30 04:26:42 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

What's so bad about mysterious teleportation, anyway? Lots of games use teleportation. Just because it's mysterious to you doesn't mean it's bad.

laughing_gas

Edit history:

laughing_gas: 2006-11-30 04:31:13 pm

2006-11-30 04:30:56 pm

Existence as you know it is over

Radix's rules.

But I'm all for the warp.

Tompa

Edit history:

Tompa: 2006-11-30 04:34:20 pm

2006-11-30 04:32:54 pm

Yes, Radix rules! But not when talking about this warp, haha ;D.
Some people says: There's no way that can't be something else than a glitch!
And some says: Of course it isn't a glitch!
It only depends on what you think yourself. And the admins are apparently thinking the wrong thing (in my opinion :P).

Quote:

But I'm all for the warp.

Thanks!

DK64_MASTER

2006-11-30 06:24:28 pm

I like the warp idea.

nate

2006-11-30 06:31:50 pm

nothing says you can't host it on youtube or whatever. sda is not the be all end all of game videos. the reason we can't allow weird crap is the more weird crap we allow, the more weird crap we are asked to allow, and it's a never ending cycle. no matter how we look at it the outcome would be bad (either the site would completely stop being updated or certain runs would start to take precedence over others and people would still be upset).

Tompa

2006-11-30 07:08:52 pm

Weird crap?? You say that the warp in DKC is WEIRD CRAP?!?!

No comments..........

MASTER-88

Edit history:

MASTER-88: 2006-11-30 07:14:43 pm

2006-11-30 07:14:23 pm

Master-88

Really stupid rules. Tompa working that run couple months.

I think SMB 1 Warp is not wrong SMB 2 warp is not wrong. SMB 3 warp is not wrong SM64 warp is not wrong.

What hell mystery glitch?

SMB 3 warp is as myster as that warp.

Tompa

2006-11-30 07:20:02 pm

Quote:

What hell mystery glitch?

SMB 3 warp is as myster as that warp.

A mystery warp is, what I have learned, a warp that no one knows how it works. And no one knows how the warp in DKC is working, and therefor it is banned.
In SMB 3 it is 100% curtain that the warp is something that the game designers put in the game.
For me, the Silent Hill 2 run in 6:32 is mystery warp. As I have no clue how it works and it looks VERY WEIRD actually. (Haven't played the game so I don't know...) For those who knows the DKC and has played it a lot see nothing strange with that warp.

But I shall not start a fight here (Even if I wish too :P).

tmont

2006-11-30 10:05:26 pm

Not going to school today

Quote:

SMB 3 warp is as myster as that warp.

The warp in Super Mario Bros. 3 is built into the game, and is accomplished by very obvious means (getting a whistle). The Donkey Kong Country warp is not accomplished by obvious means (i.e. obtaining an item), and was not intentionally programmed into the game. All these unknowns make it mysterious.

Just because a glitch exists in a game and makes a speedrun faster doesn't mean it should be allowed.

laughing_gas

2006-11-30 10:15:27 pm

Existence as you know it is over

Then if cheat codes were intentionally programmed into the game and not mysterious does that mean we get to use it? >_>

Amazing Ampharos

2006-11-30 10:15:37 pm

Well, if you can track down a game code whiz, maybe you could find out why it works. The glitch seems a whole lot to me like it's not really a glitch and was intended(just like all the invisible warp barrels that only one monkey can activate; the coders of this game were nuts), but only someone who was really familiar with the code could answer that question really. Is it causing you do go in the "wrong direction" on the map and loading the first legitimate location data it can for that direction, or is it a standard issue warp like the Mario warps, only done DKC style where you aren't told why but it just happens. If it was programmed with the intent of that happening and that could be proven to be the case, I can't see disallowing it. If it's a lucky coincidence of garbage data, it should probably be disallowed. I tend not to care about developer intent, but this seems to be a notable case.

Maybe someone in the ROM hacking community who has done some work on DKC might know. I can't think of anyone else who would be familiar with the game's code. You do have the advantage that it's a prominent game so people are more likely to have cared about it. I won't pretend to have a clue of how exactly to find someone who does know a lot about this game's code, but I'm sure they're out there somewhere on the internet.

Well, if you can track down a game code whiz, maybe you could find out why it works.  The glitch seems a whole lot to me like it's not really a glitch and was intended(just like all the invisible warp barrels that only one monkey can activate; the coders of this game were nuts), but only someone who was really familiar with the code could answer that question really.  Is it causing you do go in the "wrong direction" on the map and loading the first legitimate location data it can for that direction, or is it a standard issue warp like the Mario warps, only done DKC style where you aren't told why but it just happens.  If it was programmed with the intent of that happening and that could be proven to be the case, I can't see disallowing it.  If it's a lucky coincidence of garbage data, it should probably be disallowed.  I tend not to care about developer intent, but this seems to be a notable case.

Maybe someone in the ROM hacking community who has done some work on DKC might know.  I can't think of anyone else who would be familiar with the game's code.  You do have the advantage that it's a prominent game so people are more likely to have cared about it.  I won't pretend to have a clue of how exactly to find someone who does know a lot about this game's code, but I'm sure they're out there somewhere on the internet.

Psonar

2006-11-30 10:30:29 pm

Long live SF64!

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Then if cheat codes were intentionally programmed into the game and not mysterious does that mean we get to use it? >_>

No

Just look at the run of Banjo Tooie (I think) that abuses Cheato... the built in cheat codes. It can't replace the non-cheated run, but it got posted in it's own category for it's own merit.

When trying to reason what qualifies as mysterious teleportation, remember that Radix views things in terms of the character being played not the runner. If you suddenly ended up on the other side of the world wouldn't you find that mysterious? The fact that it works consistantly doesn't change the fact that it makes no sense to the character.

...to support my argument, if you were Mario and lived in a programmed universe where backwards longjumping gave you extreme speed and allowed you to move through poorly programmed walls then that's not so mysterious...

Rael

2006-11-30 10:32:07 pm

Quote:

Then if cheat codes were intentionally programmed into the game and not mysterious does that mean we get to use it? >_>

No. The rule is if an action is mysterious teleporting it is not allowed, not if and only if an action is mysterious teleporting it is not allowed.

MissileWaster

2006-11-30 10:32:57 pm

What exactly is the warp? I haven't heard anything about a mysterious warp in DKC...

Rael

2006-11-30 10:36:13 pm

Quote:

What exactly is the warp? I haven't heard anything about a mysterious warp in DKC...

Flash forward to ~ 0:54.

Amazing Ampharos

2006-11-30 10:52:25 pm

I can't see not allowing it at least as an additional catagory if it was intentional. The Banjo-Tooie cheats are actually a prime comparison like that... It's something we'd be inclined to disallow, but we allow it as a separate catagory because the game's designers put it in as an added bonus.

Considering that in the DKC world finding a barrel and ending up in a distant location makes sense, I think the character's perspective is hard to apply in this case. Mysterious teleportation is a part of the DKC universe; I don't think being warped around would shock DK at all. I mean, if it was intended, it's just a warp barrel on the world map. There's nothing mysterious about that at all.

AKA

2006-12-01 12:13:59 am

He's back!

Its pretty obvious when you think about it,

1. Minimalist (uses mystery warp)

The warp itself works on several other corners as well

2. 100% All level, All secrets

I think that rule was made purley to prevent minimal completions of this game, then again what about when the screw attack is obtained early in Echoes, that looks to me like mysterios teleportation as there is no explanation on appearing on the other side of that room with the long gap after Samus has fallen.

slYnki

Edit history:

slYnki: 2006-12-01 04:01:30 am

2006-12-01 03:58:40 am

XXY

How to make my point... Well, for starters, I do believe that a run that abuses a mysterious teleport or an out of bounds glitch in an extremely slight manner could make it up on SDA if the smell of a really good day was in the air, Radix was smooth talked, and we all pitched in to buy him a hot tub filled with steamy babes. I didn't want to say a run that abuses either of those would never make it up on SDA, because God knows a few have before, or atleast runs that could trigger an argument about legitimacy, even if the lines are drawn extremely clear about that sort of thing (Half-Life, for example).

However, all that aside, a complete rehaul of the rules just to accomodate a mysterious warp, no matter how discrete anybody makes it out to be seems extremely unlikely. A run may make it up in a very rare incident, but to allow every game it can be done in to do it would be lunacy.

Second, there needs to be a line drawn as to what's mysterious and what's not. I apologize, because I only skimmed through the topic and picked up stuff such as this:

Quote:

No one knows if it is a glitch or not

Quote:

What about Super Mario Bros.!?

.... so I may be pissing in the wind here, but whatever.

How can we tell one mysterious warp from the next? First off, the warp tubes in SMB were put there on purpose. Duh they have their own level of mystery (omg, what magical world will I step through shit to get to now!?), but c'mon, let's not be ridiculous here. There's a fine line between standing in a certain spot and suddenly being violently warped 3 hours into the game, and jumping into a tube solely put there for the purpose of intentional warp... I'm not saying the warp in question does that, just giving a poor example as usual.

I felt like going on a rant about Super Mario 64 and Half-Life (as there is ways in Half-Life to teleport yourself far underneath levels, into ceiling, into walls, ect. ect.), but nah. I made my point as best as I could ^_^;

If it means the world to you to get a run up on SDA, simply submit a run without the mysterious warp in question, then make a run with the warp in question, if it's so important. Won't do you any good to argue with the admins about this, the rules are pretty adamant. I'd say just do two runs, and let that be the end of it.

How to make my point... Well, for starters, I do believe that a run that abuses a mysterious teleport or an out of bounds glitch in an [b]extremely[/b] slight manner could make it up on SDA if the smell of a really good day was in the air, Radix was smooth talked, and we all pitched in to buy him a hot tub filled with steamy babes. I didn't want to say a run that abuses either of those would never make it up on SDA, because God knows a few have before, or atleast runs that could trigger an argument about legitimacy, even if the lines are drawn extremely clear about that sort of thing (Half-Life, for example).

However, all that aside, a complete rehaul of the rules just to accomodate a mysterious warp, no matter how discrete anybody makes it out to be seems extremely unlikely. A run may make it up in a very rare incident, but to allow every game it can be done in to do it would be lunacy.

Second, there needs to be a line drawn as to what's mysterious and what's not. I apologize, because I only skimmed through the topic and picked up stuff such as this:

[quote]No one knows if it is a glitch or not[/quote]
[quote]What about Super Mario Bros.!?[/quote]
.... so I may be pissing in the wind here, but whatever.

How can we tell one mysterious warp from the next? First off, the warp tubes in SMB were put there on purpose. Duh they have their own level of mystery (omg, what magical world will I step through shit to get to now!?), but c'mon, let's not be ridiculous here. There's a fine line between standing in a certain spot and suddenly being violently warped 3 hours into the game, and jumping into a tube solely put there for the purpose of intentional warp... I'm not saying the warp in question does that, just giving a poor example as usual.

I felt like going on a rant about Super Mario 64 and Half-Life (as there is ways in Half-Life to teleport yourself far underneath levels, into ceiling, into walls, ect. ect.), but nah. I made my point as best as I could ^_^;

If it means the world to you to get a run up on SDA, simply submit a run without the mysterious warp in question, then make a run with the warp in question, if it's so important. Won't do you any good to argue with the admins about this, the rules are pretty adamant. I'd say just do two runs, and let that be the end of it.

Tompa

2006-12-01 06:15:39 am

Quote:

If it means the world to you to get a run up on SDA, simply submit a run without the mysterious warp in question, then make a run with the warp in question, if it's so important. Won't do you any good to argue with the admins about this, the rules are pretty adamant. I'd say just do two runs, and let that be the end of it.

It's not the fact that I wanted to make the run, for I can "just" make a full any% instead and send it in, that would look more impressive anyway. It's just that no one can tell if it is a glitch or not. That's like my whole point. It's only what you think yourself. Some here says it should be allowed, some says not.
Whatever, I'll make a full rune instead.

Frezy_man

Edit history:

Frezy_man: 2006-12-01 01:00:40 pm

2006-12-01 01:00:21 pm

bläää

I want to see the warp run and don´t understand why this community don´t accept it.

DKC is a famous game and the warp a famous warp. This is the kind of cool vids people want to watch.

its just my vote.