Tales of Phantasia

2006-05-21 06:56:07 pm

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

ugh. morlia. is. rigged.

most of the encounters aren't really possible to run from and keeping mint and klarth alive is ridiculously hard. i made it to floor four and things were bad. i made it to floor seven and mint and klarth died. i made it to floor 9 and couldn't solve the puzzle before i died. this was even after i started debris falling liberally to end the encounters i recognized as not escapable. with this i say, that i am no longer actively working on this practice run. i'd rather play lufia. i'd rather play bof. and i'd rather run something that i actually like.

getter77

2006-05-21 10:04:20 pm

100% runs=great to watch

Well, stuff like this happens. I recommend you set a record in some much shorter games that nobody else is working on in order to perk your spirits back up in the meantime.

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-05-21 11:55:41 pm

2006-05-21 11:07:50 pm

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

haha, i was really pissed off. and i lied Wink

i went back and did it just to see...the entirety of morlia took...28 minutes (i also backed out for healing once i reached maxwell, as arche was just a little too short on mana, which sucked, so that adds five minutes extraneously). considering how many encounters i "had" to fight, i'm actually not feeling so bad on that one (i don't know how much it can be improved, but i will definitely want to segment the hell out of it to get the most out of avoiding fights) that left my time at 2:50. then i went for basilisks. took forever in real time, but not so bad in game time, as the game just totally refused, as always, to cooperate. i finished all that business, and getting the royal crest, and starting into heimdall, at 3:17 (oops, it's 3:27. bah).

i don't know my way around heimdall at all, and generally have a bad taste in my mouth from the snes version, so this seems like a more appropriate place to decide how much i hate running this. it really has an odd similarity to radiance...

anyway, by the time i finish the tower of the zodiac, or possibly closer to when i reach valhalla plains, is where the ultimagarden psx run finishes. i resent that. i'm seeing moderate possible improvements (really, you'd have to be a fucking maniac to finish morlia in :21 i think, though it would be possible with perfect exection and lucky-ass encounters...i will aim for about :24 i think...) but this run may well still be 5:30 or so. i am totally unfamiliar with the end of the game, so maybe my expectations on how long it will take are way off though.

haha, i was really pissed off.  and i lied ;)

i went back and did it just to see...the entirety of morlia took...28 minutes (i also backed out for healing once i reached maxwell, as arche was just a little too short on mana, which sucked, so that adds five minutes extraneously).  considering how many encounters i "had" to fight, i'm actually not feeling so bad on that one (i don't know how much it can be improved, but i will definitely want to segment the hell out of it to get the most out of avoiding fights)  that left my time at 2:50.  then i went for basilisks.  took forever in real time, but not so bad in game time, as the game just totally refused, as always, to cooperate.  i finished all that business, and getting the royal crest, and starting into heimdall, at 3:17 (oops, it's 3:27.  bah).

i don't know my way around heimdall at all, and generally have a bad taste in my mouth from the snes version, so this seems like a more appropriate place to decide how much i hate running this.  it really has an odd similarity to radiance...

anyway, by the time i finish the tower of the zodiac, or possibly closer to when i reach valhalla plains, is where the ultimagarden psx run finishes.  i resent that.  i'm seeing moderate possible improvements (really, you'd have to be a fucking maniac to finish morlia in :21 i think, though it would be possible with perfect exection and lucky-ass encounters...i will aim for about :24 i think...) but this run may well still be 5:30 or so.  i am totally unfamiliar with the end of the game, so maybe my expectations on how long it will take are way off though.

VorpalEdge

Edit history:

VorpalEdge: 2006-05-21 11:36:11 pm

2006-05-21 11:34:57 pm

welcome to the machine

There's a decent map of the forest on gfaqs if that's what you were referring to. It's in the first FAQ. Horrible ascii art, but you can see the route.

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-05-22 04:55:09 pm

2006-05-22 04:54:28 pm

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

okay, i made it to valhalla plains. i forget what the time is, but after all the travesty of morlia and such, i don't particularly care. it's 4:1x though, probably 4:17. heimdall was really merciful, as the main encounter (3x lizardmen or 2x lizardman + drake) is easily escapable and swallow kick usually jumps over the water lillies.

zodiac was even easier. there's only one inescapable encounter that doesn't happen much (2x clay golem *ick*).

and then there's midgards. i now have some questions for the real deal (i just ignored them for now). events in midgards/the triggers are...
enter midgards without luna-artemis steals the alvanista crest (obviously, i'm not doing this scene, but it's there)
enter midgards with luna-go to castle gate and guards escort you in
meeting room-couldn't figure this out...talk to everybody, then try to leave, then come back? it worked for me, but i want to know what you actually need.
overhear reisen's conversation
go outside
cutscene at arche's house (is this required? seems kinda...pointless to me)
return to midgards-is this where morrison's death cutscene happens? (i loved that part, just like botta in symphonia)
talk to the magitech researchers? do you have to do that? did i put stuff in the wrong order?
stay at the inn
return to the castle...go to the meeting room?

also, where's the fire storm book? i think i kinda need it on valhalla =/

lastly, i noticed something odd on valhalla. when i fight and end an encounter on the first screen, the next couple screens seem to have a lot less enemies (seriously, maybe two or three encounters). i'm wondering if this is part of the way the encounters are randomly generated or if you can actually reduce the number of encounters you meet by fighting one every couple of screens...and of course, if that saves time or not. if anybody has vba and a computer that doesn't hate it and could test this...i'd be happy.

even if this does work, valhalla still blows. maybe i was being retarded but i swear i got trapped at the edge of one of the screens by seven encounters. even aside from that, i really can't make it very far without getting pissed off at how many encounters i'm getting.

okay, i made it to valhalla plains.  i forget what the time is, but after all the travesty of morlia and such, i don't particularly care.  it's 4:1x though, probably 4:17.  heimdall was really merciful, as the main encounter (3x lizardmen or 2x lizardman + drake) is easily escapable and swallow kick usually jumps over the water lillies.

zodiac was even easier.  there's only one inescapable encounter that doesn't happen much (2x clay golem *ick*).

and then there's midgards.  i now have some questions for the real deal (i just ignored them for now).  events in midgards/the triggers are...
enter midgards without luna-artemis steals the alvanista crest (obviously, i'm not doing this scene, but it's there)
enter midgards with luna-go to castle gate and guards escort you in
meeting room-couldn't figure this out...talk to everybody, then try to leave, then come back?  it worked for me, but i want to know what you actually need.
overhear reisen's conversation
go outside
cutscene at arche's house (is this required?  seems kinda...pointless to me)
return to midgards-is this where morrison's death cutscene happens? (i loved that part, just like botta in symphonia)
talk to the magitech researchers?  do you have to do that?  did i put stuff in the wrong order?
stay at the inn
return to the castle...go to the meeting room?

also, where's the fire storm book?  i think i kinda need it on valhalla =/

lastly, i noticed something odd on valhalla.  when i fight and end an encounter on the first screen, the next couple screens seem to have a lot less enemies (seriously, maybe two or three encounters).  i'm wondering if this is part of the way the encounters are randomly generated or if you can actually reduce the number of encounters you meet by fighting one every couple of screens...and of course, if that saves time or not.  if anybody has vba and a computer that doesn't hate it and could test this...i'd be happy.

even if this does work, valhalla still blows.  maybe i was being retarded but i swear i got trapped at the edge of one of the screens by seven encounters. even aside from that, i really can't make it very far without getting pissed off at how many encounters i'm getting.

VorpalEdge

2006-05-22 06:29:39 pm

welcome to the machine

Yeah, valhalla sucks majorly. It was there that I found out for sure that the game timer counts battles. :/

Don't know anything about the triggers in midgard, but Fire Storm is encountered very early in Dhaos's castle.

spineshark

2006-05-23 01:59:22 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

haha, if the game timer didn't count battles, that'd be...really weird. too bad it counts cutscenes. Sad

ahh, okay. i could have sworn that i was torching orcrots with fire storm. and i was...when i returned to ymir for chester's bow. =/

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-05-23 08:09:02 pm

2006-05-23 06:39:45 pm

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

actual time: 4:10 Smiley

time after crossing valhalla: 4:17
time after beating that guy: 4:20
i think i could have actually done it quite a bit faster as i accidentally fought one chimera x2 encounter, i didn't need to rest (but i did), and i paused for a minute to make my mom not pissed off at me for not studying for the spanish ib test. which really would not have done me any good anyway since the word i kept forgetting was the spanish for "despite" Sad

that was pretty damned lucky though and getting it again may be not really possible.

hmm...dhaos' castle is the new ridiculously hardass. i have tried five times and made it out of the first encounter once. i'm there in 4:32, though i could have easily made it 4:31 if i hadn't messed up in midgards preparing to go.

VorpalEdge

Edit history:

VorpalEdge: 2006-05-23 10:45:10 pm

2006-05-23 10:44:33 pm

welcome to the machine

Yeah, I figure you'll be stuck levelling for at least some of the time. :/

Maybe that'd be a good use for Valhalla, actually. Assuming you can do without the extra money for finishing in a day... (which I don't think you can, but I'm musing here).

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-05-23 11:41:46 pm

2006-05-23 11:37:09 pm

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

no leveling will be required in the past. for the purposes of this run, the hardest fight in the past is, oddly, demitel (because you can't interrupt if he chooses to use cyclone first, which leaves you screwed). i forgot to pick up the mystic symbol, so i will backtrack after i successfully retrieve the handmirror. i made it to the first save point in 4:42, and aside from forgetting the ms, nothing went terribly wrong. the fight with dhaos and 2 (or is it 3? either way) evil lords is really easy. arche and klarth just need to throw down a couple spells each to destroy them, while cress prevents dhaos from casting. after that, it's a matter of feeding arche orange gels and smashing him in a corner with tiger blade and indignation.

then there's the battle in the white birch forest. no problems there, though admittedly no indignation hurts.

the robots in thor are retardedly easy, because they're one of those bosses that has a hard time hitting arche. Smiley

and i'm pretty sure present dhaos didn't even come close to killing me on my first playthrough. he just takes forever.

also, for the record, it's nothing here, but buying thunder blade in alvanista is a 99% sure prospect, even if it only gets used on undine. i just keep forgetting to note that fact.

both times i've completed vp, it was on the second day, and the king of midgards gave me 10k gold.

no leveling will be required in the past.  for the purposes of this run, the hardest fight in the past is, oddly, demitel (because you can't interrupt if he chooses to use cyclone first, which leaves you screwed).  i forgot to pick up the mystic symbol, so i will backtrack after i successfully retrieve the handmirror.  i made it to the first save point in 4:42, and aside from forgetting the ms, nothing went terribly wrong.  the fight with dhaos and 2 (or is it 3?  either way) evil lords is really easy.  arche and klarth just need to throw down a couple spells each to destroy them, while cress prevents dhaos from casting.  after that, it's a matter of feeding arche orange gels and smashing him in a corner with tiger blade and indignation.

then there's the battle in the white birch forest.  no problems there, though admittedly no indignation hurts.

the robots in thor are retardedly easy, because they're one of those bosses that has a hard time hitting arche. :)  and i'm pretty sure present dhaos didn't even come close to killing me on my first playthrough.  he just takes forever.

also, for the record, it's nothing here, but buying thunder blade in alvanista is a 99% sure prospect, even if it only gets used on undine.  i just keep forgetting to note that fact.

both times i've completed vp, it was on the second day, and the king of midgards gave me 10k gold.

TSA

2006-05-23 11:52:42 pm

Retired

Heh, you may complete this run before I even beat the game. I just beat that Flameberger person, and wow did that battle take forever. Very easy, but very long...but that whole Tower of Flames part was insane with annoying battles that were hard to fun from.

So I guess I have the Ice Blade next...I think I'm getting pretty close to the end here, I just hit the 20 hr mark.

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-05-24 03:41:19 am

2006-05-24 12:48:52 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

have no fear, unless you're going to be fastidious about leveling up your characters a whole bunch and doing a ton of sidequests. i'm not recording yet...recording will take a lot longer because i'm actually going to try and insist on running from a lot of encounters much faster. plus, i might not just jump into recording this run after i finish my test/practice business. i have to redo that fe9 run one of these days (unless damienreave picks it up, and i would be very grateful to him) because i fucked up one of the tapes, and i'm rather addicted to star ocean at the moment.

"very easy, but very long" sums up my feelings about the way this version plays. sfc is far more intense.

i got back with the hand mirror in 4:52, and back with the key in 5:02. the key part took me a very long time because i had to fetch the mystic symbol, so that's five minutes that will magically disappear next time. so much for 5 1/2 hours...i don't think i can make it to the present by then on this one...the real run may well clock in at almost 6.

possibly the biggest mistake i have made was to not buy the mist orb in alvanista. i ended up buying it in olive village on my way to the tower of the zodiac.

edit: dhaos is being really, really hard. i did not know that he had something like tos death eater.

have no fear, unless you're going to be fastidious about leveling up your characters a whole bunch and doing a ton of sidequests.  i'm not recording yet...recording will take a lot longer because i'm actually going to try and insist on running from a lot of encounters much faster.  plus, i might not just jump into recording this run after i finish my test/practice business.  i have to redo that fe9 run one of these days (unless damienreave picks it up, and i would be very grateful to him) because i fucked up one of the tapes, and i'm rather addicted to star ocean at the moment.

"very easy, but very long" sums up my feelings about the way this version plays.  sfc is far more intense.

i got back with the hand mirror in 4:52, and back with the key in 5:02.  the key part took me a very long time because i had to fetch the mystic symbol, so that's five minutes that will magically disappear next time.  so much for 5 1/2 hours...i don't think i can make it to the present by then on this one...the real run may well clock in at almost 6.

possibly the biggest mistake i have made was to not buy the mist orb in alvanista.  i ended up buying it in olive village on my way to the tower of the zodiac.

edit: dhaos is being really, really hard.  i did not know that he had something like tos death eater.

Amazing Ampharos

2006-05-25 03:48:55 am

I've been trying to finish the game too. I could go and trounce Dhaos, but I'm trying to do lower Morlia first, and boy is it hard. When the random monsters start casting Indignation, you know you're in trouble.

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-05-26 04:22:52 am

2006-05-26 04:21:17 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

big biig update here.

i beat past dhaos. basically as i expected you have to keep both evil lords on the screen until they die. it's pretty annoyingly hard though. then it's just a matter of spamming him in the corner. Time after this was an oogly 5:16 after all the scenes i think

i beat the three evil lords in the forest. this one wasn't as hard but there's a lot more between it and a save, which sucks =(

saved thor at 5:49. at this point, i barely care about the time though. it went quite well, though i'm not sure if i could have saved time in some weird way or another.

saved present at 6:06. then i went to venezzia, etc. but stayed at the inn to see chester's scene. not worth it.

6:14 outside volt's cave. 6:22 right before volt (should have been a lot better...oops).

for testing purposes, i tried not doing what maur said (also, i didn't want to go back to thor). i was inside fenrir's temple at 6:31. i don't remember what my time was until i got back out and inside the thor core room, but fen beast was really fast and really easy. as such i don't know if it actually makes much difference which comes first...except that after you do fen beast, you can go back to morrison's house to heal...which is close to the cave of spirits where you get the emerald ring...anyway...

i think i messed up the next part, because it took me until 7:01 to get aska. at this point, i don't know how much time can be saved, but it had better be a lot. anyway, it looks like the entire game is possible without too much leveling work (i think that leveling may be necessary but "incidental" in morlia because it's just so cheap. other than that, i don't think you need any, but i've had a lot because i've been a bit lazy after getting so ticked at morlia). chester is rocking, he gains about 16 or 18 levels in about five fights which can be won almost instantly with indignation.

big biig update here.

i beat past dhaos.  basically as i expected you have to keep both evil lords on the screen until they die.  it's pretty annoyingly hard though.  then it's just a matter of spamming him in the corner.  Time after this was an oogly 5:16 after all the scenes i think

i beat the three evil lords in the forest.  this one wasn't as hard but there's a lot more between it and a save, which sucks =(

saved thor at 5:49.  at this point, i barely care about the time though.  it went quite well, though i'm not sure if i could have saved time in some weird way or another.

saved present at 6:06.  then i went to venezzia, etc. but stayed at the inn to see chester's scene.  not worth it.

6:14 outside volt's cave.  6:22 right before volt (should have been a lot better...oops).

for testing purposes, i tried not doing what maur said (also, i didn't want to go back to thor).  i was inside fenrir's temple at 6:31.  i don't remember what my time was until i got back out and inside the thor core room, but fen beast was really fast and really easy.  as such i don't know if it actually makes much difference which comes first...except that after you do fen beast, you can go back to morrison's house to heal...which is close to the cave of spirits where you get the emerald ring...anyway...

i think i messed up the next part, because it took me until 7:01 to get aska.  at this point, i don't know how much time can be saved, but it had better be a [i]lot[/i].  anyway, it looks like the entire game is possible without too much leveling work (i think that leveling may be necessary but "incidental" in morlia because it's just so cheap.  other than that, i don't think you need any, but i've had a lot because i've been a bit lazy after getting so ticked at morlia).  chester is rocking, he gains about 16 or 18 levels in about five fights which can be won almost instantly with indignation.

TSA

2006-05-26 04:53:00 am

Retired

Heh, I just reached Dhaos Castle in the future...you're like right on my heals.

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-05-26 06:08:26 pm

2006-05-26 05:10:04 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

i have the advantage of having beaten the game already though. Wink

looks like we'll both finish tomorrow. then i have to rush my brother along so i can free up the save slot (it will probably only be useful for valhalla though).

edit: at the least, i need two flare/ice charms. cress can't run from battles in odin on his own, so i will need to use aska to clean up fights as quickly as possible.

edit 2: okay, screw the ice charms. just blaze through (oh dear, a pun) and nurse twice every four burns. still tough as hell.

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-05-28 12:17:12 am

2006-05-27 01:37:12 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

okay, i prepped in olive village and saved at 7:03.

with my ridiculous "no ice charm strategy" (you have to use nurse twice every 8 or 10 seconds) i got up the fire tower in 11 minutes. the flamberge fight was three minutes. odin escape was 7:22. i saved before arlee in 7:33 (forgot my origin times. damn). i saved at the beginning of dhaos' at 7:42 i think.

dhaos' castle is once again tough as hell.

edit: i figured out how to escape from dragoman encounters, hopefully. also, i have too many emerald rings (4 i think) ^_^ though i still should not sell that first one.

edit: last night i was running around on floor 3 picking up derris emblems...when i get into an encounter with evil eye x1 and seraph x1...well, i get a derris emblem from that, so i decided to go check and see if encounters in the basement cough them up. doesn't look like it, unfortunately, though it'd be so annoying to do that it's probably just as well.

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-05-29 06:29:44 am

2006-05-29 06:28:59 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

dhaos' castle is so not working out. i fail to understand why so many rpgs have one monster/encounter in most of the dungeons that is a total "you're screwed" while the others are totally pathetic.

anyway, i might be out of town from tomorrow to thursday, or i might just be at home and not work on this run because i hate lizards. either way...

also, it would appear that there is fully no way to sequence break the derris emblems. i feel like i've tried all of the available options.

Amazing Ampharos

2006-05-29 07:34:55 am

SBing the Derris Emblem is somewhat possible, but it requires a lot of luck and it won't save much time. Just go straight to the dungeon and see if you can luck abuse 4 derris emblem drops from the big eyeball things(as unbelievable as it is, you might actually want to use a Dark Bottle). It's also a chance to gain some levels for the final boss as Dhaos's second form is... unpleasant. It has the final upside of letting you skip all those annoying Ninja battles for Derris Emblems. I'd try it, but expect to be frustrated as you try to get the right encounter many times in a row and get it to drop what you want.

Also, why did you get Aska? It's really powerful sure, but in which fights does it really help? You have to beat Volt before you can get it, Flamberge and Fen Beast are both really weak to the point where doing a little extra damage won't make any real difference in time, and I think Origin resists light, and even if he doesn't, Volt won't do much less/it's just one fight. Once you beat Origin, he probably replaces Aska anyway in terms of general use. And of course the whole thing in Thor is somewhat long even if you luck abuse the right keycards the first time(which basically requires you to add a segment right there).

Also, speaking of enemy drops, apparently 3SH's in Thor can drop Laser Blades. Now, I know there's enough luck manipulation in Thor already, but if you can stand to make that already hellish segment even more terrible, you can save a ton of money in the future. That could actually be a route-changer substantially as saving 200000g makes a bit of a difference. Not to mention you'll have the laser blade for several fights you wouldn't have otherwise(4400R, Dhaos2, and Volt). I'm still interested in your final weapon plan for Cress. If you get this Laser Blade, the game takes care of you for most of the game(Alavanista through Dhaos's Castle is Gugnir, Thor through Origin is Laser Blade, endgame is Eternal Sword) so you only have to worry about the early game and Dhaos's castle in the past(in which the mech halberd found on an easily accessible rack on the first floor would suffice).

SBing the Derris Emblem is somewhat possible, but it requires a lot of luck and it won't save much time.  Just go straight to the dungeon and see if you can luck abuse 4 derris emblem drops from the big eyeball things(as unbelievable as it is, you might actually want to use a Dark Bottle).  It's also a chance to gain some levels for the final boss as Dhaos's second form is... unpleasant.  It has the final upside of letting you skip all those annoying Ninja battles for Derris Emblems.  I'd try it, but expect to be frustrated as you try to get the right encounter many times in a row and get it to drop what you want.

Also, why did you get Aska?  It's really powerful sure, but in which fights does it really help?  You have to beat Volt before you can get it, Flamberge and Fen Beast are both really weak to the point where doing a little extra damage won't make any real difference in time, and I think Origin resists light, and even if he doesn't, Volt won't do much less/it's just one fight.  Once you beat Origin, he probably replaces Aska anyway in terms of general use.  And of course the whole thing in Thor is somewhat long even if you luck abuse the right keycards the first time(which basically requires you to add a segment right there).

Also, speaking of enemy drops, apparently 3SH's in Thor can drop Laser Blades.  Now, I know there's enough luck manipulation in Thor already, but if you can stand to make that already hellish segment even more terrible, you can save a ton of money in the future.  That could actually be a route-changer substantially as saving 200000g makes a bit of a difference.  Not to mention you'll have the laser blade for several fights you wouldn't have otherwise(4400R, Dhaos2, and Volt).  I'm still interested in your final weapon plan for Cress.  If you get this Laser Blade, the game takes care of you for most of the game(Alavanista through Dhaos's Castle is Gugnir, Thor through Origin is Laser Blade, endgame is Eternal Sword) so you only have to worry about the early game and Dhaos's castle in the past(in which the mech halberd found on an easily accessible rack on the first floor would suffice).

spineshark

2006-05-29 05:13:44 pm

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

Quote:

SBing the Derris Emblem is somewhat possible, but it requires a lot of luck and it won't save much time. Just go straight to the dungeon and see if you can luck abuse 4 derris emblem drops from the big eyeball things(as unbelievable as it is, you might actually want to use a Dark Bottle). It's also a chance to gain some levels for the final boss as Dhaos's second form is... unpleasant. It has the final upside of letting you skip all those annoying Ninja battles for Derris Emblems. I'd try it, but expect to be frustrated as you try to get the right encounter many times in a row and get it to drop what you want.

i swear i spent four hours on this and it didn't work. seems to me that the one i found on floor 3 was a total freak chance.

Quote:

Also, why did you get Aska? It's really powerful sure, but in which fights does it really help? You have to beat Volt before you can get it, Flamberge and Fen Beast are both really weak to the point where doing a little extra damage won't make any real difference in time, and I think Origin resists light, and even if he doesn't, Volt won't do much less/it's just one fight. Once you beat Origin, he probably replaces Aska anyway in terms of general use. And of course the whole thing in Thor is somewhat long even if you luck abuse the right keycards the first time(which basically requires you to add a segment right there).

maur reccommended it. it's super useful in the four fights in odin's tower, even though it sucks compared to volt against both fen beast and flamberge. also, i think the animation is a little shorter than origin and it seems to do more damage against most things in dhaos' tower (especially the eye monsters/miniboss).

it creates a bunch of odd dynamics, because at this point arche seems worthless and it's almost like i'd be better off having mint use sharpness...

also, none of klarth's summons against origin out-damage tiger blade spamming, so i'm not going to use any.

Quote:

Also, speaking of enemy drops, apparently 3SH's in Thor can drop Laser Blades. Now, I know there's enough luck manipulation in Thor already, but if you can stand to make that already hellish segment even more terrible, you can save a ton of money in the future. That could actually be a route-changer substantially as saving 200000g makes a bit of a difference. Not to mention you'll have the laser blade for several fights you wouldn't have otherwise(4400R, Dhaos2, and Volt). I'm still interested in your final weapon plan for Cress. If you get this Laser Blade, the game takes care of you for most of the game(Alavanista through Dhaos's Castle is Gugnir, Thor through Origin is Laser Blade, endgame is Eternal Sword) so you only have to worry about the early game and Dhaos's castle in the past(in which the mech halberd found on an easily accessible rack on the first floor would suffice).

if i don't use that 200k on the laser blade, it doesn't get spent on anything (armor for klarth doesn't seem like it's going to save any headache). i intend to use the knight saber until alvanista unless demitel proves to be impossible to beat without the ranseur.

so you can't get a laser blade drop from the boss fight in thor? damn, that would make things better. if i do get the laser sword then at least i don't need judgement, which aside from the 3500 damage on volt doesn't seem to be all that great and once again obsoleting arche. anyway, it would be worth it because dhaos 2 lasts forever.

[quote]SBing the Derris Emblem is somewhat possible, but it requires a lot of luck and it won't save much time.  Just go straight to the dungeon and see if you can luck abuse 4 derris emblem drops from the big eyeball things(as unbelievable as it is, you might actually want to use a Dark Bottle).  It's also a chance to gain some levels for the final boss as Dhaos's second form is... unpleasant.  It has the final upside of letting you skip all those annoying Ninja battles for Derris Emblems.  I'd try it, but expect to be frustrated as you try to get the right encounter many times in a row and get it to drop what you want.[/quote]
i swear i spent four hours on this and it didn't work.  seems to me that the one i found on floor 3 was a total freak chance.
[quote]Also, why did you get Aska?  It's really powerful sure, but in which fights does it really help?  You have to beat Volt before you can get it, Flamberge and Fen Beast are both really weak to the point where doing a little extra damage won't make any real difference in time, and I think Origin resists light, and even if he doesn't, Volt won't do much less/it's just one fight.  Once you beat Origin, he probably replaces Aska anyway in terms of general use.  And of course the whole thing in Thor is somewhat long even if you luck abuse the right keycards the first time(which basically requires you to add a segment right there).[/quote]
maur reccommended it.  it's super useful in the four fights in odin's tower, even though it sucks compared to volt against both fen beast and flamberge.  also, i think the animation is a little shorter than origin and it seems to do more damage against most things in dhaos' tower (especially the eye monsters/miniboss).

it creates a bunch of odd dynamics, because at this point arche seems worthless and it's almost like i'd be better off having mint use sharpness...

also, none of klarth's summons against origin out-damage tiger blade spamming, so i'm not going to use any.
[quote]Also, speaking of enemy drops, apparently 3SH's in Thor can drop Laser Blades.  Now, I know there's enough luck manipulation in Thor already, but if you can stand to make that already hellish segment even more terrible, you can save a ton of money in the future.  That could actually be a route-changer substantially as saving 200000g makes a bit of a difference.  Not to mention you'll have the laser blade for several fights you wouldn't have otherwise(4400R, Dhaos2, and Volt).  I'm still interested in your final weapon plan for Cress.  If you get this Laser Blade, the game takes care of you for most of the game(Alavanista through Dhaos's Castle is Gugnir, Thor through Origin is Laser Blade, endgame is Eternal Sword) so you only have to worry about the early game and Dhaos's castle in the past(in which the mech halberd found on an easily accessible rack on the first floor would suffice).[/quote]
if i don't use that 200k on the laser blade, it doesn't get spent on anything (armor for klarth doesn't seem like it's going to save any headache).  i intend to use the knight saber until alvanista unless demitel proves to be impossible to beat without the ranseur.

so you can't get a laser blade drop from the boss fight in thor?  damn, that would make things better.  if i do get the laser sword then at least i don't need judgement, which aside from the 3500 damage on volt doesn't seem to be all [i]that[/i] great and once again obsoleting arche.  anyway, it would be worth it because dhaos 2 lasts forever.

Amazing Ampharos

2006-05-29 09:25:55 pm

Well, hmm, how much money do you get throughout the game? Since it seems the only things you need to buy anymore are healing items, a few Arche spells, and boat trips, I'm thinking about a second mystic symbol. I don't know, that's probably crazy since the Mystic Symbol is insane in cost, and you're already finding the casters less useful than planned. I guess you could buy the Combo Command for Cress. If you used it correctly, I'm sure it could speed things up.

Hmm, I can't think any of the secret skill books would help either as Tiger Blade is probably the only tech you'll master.

I didn't realize that unless you get the uber stuff like Pluto/Extension that Arche and Claus end up doing less dps than Cress by the end of the game. If that's the case, then yeah, you'd probably want to put Mint back in as Sharpness would speed up Cress a lot, and I think Pow Hammers might not stop the action so she could somewhat support you like Chester, except worse. There's also acid rain; I don't know if that's helping.

Also, as per the Laser Blade in Thor, I guess you could get it from the boss as he has 3SH's as minions, but you could also get it from random encounters in Thor. I guess the boss is probably more ideal though unless the laser blade speeds up the boss fight a ton.

I thought the enemies that dropped Derris Emblems only appeared in the dungeon, or at least were a lot more common there. Try seeing how well you can harvest down in the dungeon itself rather than on the main path, unless I misread what you said and you were trying that. Then again it is a lot of luck; they didn't mean for you to avoid the Derris Emblem. I think you can somewhat SB it if you have Suzu, but there's no way you're getting Suzu. So skipping the Derris Emblem might end up being a thing for a TAS run only.

Seriously, good luck against Dhaos's second form in the final fight. I remember I basically beat it by virtue of the uberness of Pluto and Extension, and you're going in underleveled/underequiped. At least the other two forms go down easily to spamming.

Well, hmm, how much money do you get throughout the game?  Since it seems the only things you need to buy anymore are healing items, a few Arche spells, and boat trips, I'm thinking about a second mystic symbol.  I don't know, that's probably crazy since the Mystic Symbol is insane in cost, and you're already finding the casters less useful than planned.  I guess you could buy the Combo Command for Cress.  If you used it correctly, I'm sure it could speed things up.

Hmm, I can't think any of the secret skill books would help either as Tiger Blade is probably the only tech you'll master.

I didn't realize that unless you get the uber stuff like Pluto/Extension that Arche and Claus end up doing less dps than Cress by the end of the game.  If that's the case, then yeah, you'd probably want to put Mint back in as Sharpness would speed up Cress a lot, and I think Pow Hammers might not stop the action so she could somewhat support you like Chester, except worse.  There's also acid rain; I don't know if that's helping.

Also, as per the Laser Blade in Thor, I guess you could get it from the boss as he has 3SH's as minions, but you could also get it from random encounters in Thor.  I guess the boss is probably more ideal though unless the laser blade speeds up the boss fight a ton.

I thought the enemies that dropped Derris Emblems only appeared in the dungeon, or at least were a lot more common there.  Try seeing how well you can harvest down in the dungeon itself rather than on the main path, unless I misread what you said and you were trying that.  Then again it is a lot of luck; they didn't mean for you to avoid the Derris Emblem.  I think you can somewhat SB it if you have Suzu, but there's no way you're getting Suzu.  So skipping the Derris Emblem might end up being a thing for a TAS run only.

Seriously, good luck against Dhaos's second form in the final fight.  I remember I basically beat it by virtue of the uberness of Pluto and Extension, and you're going in underleveled/underequiped.  At least the other two forms go down easily to spamming.

Amazing Ampharos

2006-06-01 09:28:20 am

Bad news. I just looked up to confirm that laser blade drop, and the enemies in the past are 2SH's, not 3SH's. So you can only get the laser blade from a drop in future thor. That stings...

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-06-01 10:46:32 pm

2006-06-01 09:26:47 pm

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

Quote:

Well, hmm, how much money do you get throughout the game? Since it seems the only things you need to buy anymore are healing items, a few Arche spells, and boat trips, I'm thinking about a second mystic symbol. I don't know, that's probably crazy since the Mystic Symbol is insane in cost, and you're already finding the casters less useful than planned. I guess you could buy the Combo Command for Cress. If you used it correctly, I'm sure it could speed things up.

first: checking a save i had right before the unicorn forest, the money was at 228k. That is with a lot of fights in morlia and stuff, but then add up what i think is like 30k (or at least 15) from the evil lords and 25k from present dhaos...

second: two mystic symbols take about 20 seconds to get. i do need both of them it seems until about volt. from then on out, klarth's mana pool and insane aska damage appear to totally obsolete arche. i should check, but it may be illegal to put both of them on klarth.

third: combo command? i have no fucking idea what that is :-[

Quote:

Hmm, I can't think any of the secret skill books would help either as Tiger Blade is probably the only tech you'll master.

ha, if that.

Quote:

I didn't realize that unless you get the uber stuff like Pluto/Extension that Arche and Claus end up doing less dps than Cress by the end of the game. If that's the case, then yeah, you'd probably want to put Mint back in as Sharpness would speed up Cress a lot, and I think Pow Hammers might not stop the action so she could somewhat support you like Chester, except worse. There's also acid rain; I don't know if that's helping.

aska is very close in dps (i can't tell which is better...it totally destroys cress against the blocklock eye) against single targets but adds a much needed hit during cress' "recovery" that chester doesn't like to do much.

Quote:

Also, as per the Laser Blade in Thor, I guess you could get it from the boss as he has 3SH's as minions, but you could also get it from random encounters in Thor. I guess the boss is probably more ideal though unless the laser blade speeds up the boss fight a ton.

although it wouldn't, i have to comment that in that fight nobody does jack except for the indignation mistress. >_>

anyway, bummer about those laser swords. it'd save like three fucking minutes on present dhaos.

Quote:

I thought the enemies that dropped Derris Emblems only appeared in the dungeon, or at least were a lot more common there. Try seeing how well you can harvest down in the dungeon itself rather than on the main path, unless I misread what you said and you were trying that. Then again it is a lot of luck; they didn't mean for you to avoid the Derris Emblem. I think you can somewhat SB it if you have Suzu, but there's no way you're getting Suzu. So skipping the Derris Emblem might end up being a thing for a TAS run only.

yes, i was working in the basement/dungeon. it's rather pointless anyway, as you'd either end up with a ton of fights in a row in the basement or you'd have to go back and save after each victory which is not worth it.

the hanzos really aren't so bad anyway. i'll take them over 1% chance derris emblems any day. edit: especially now that i just found out that chaining tiger blade will kill them with 0 effort.

Quote:

Seriously, good luck against Dhaos's second form in the final fight. I remember I basically beat it by virtue of the uberness of Pluto and Extension, and you're going in underleveled/underequiped. At least the other two forms go down easily to spamming.

i'll have to see. but if some crazy japanese guy can do a low level game on the psx version, i have to imagine that on this easier game with characters who've actually been allowed to gain a few levels, i might just have a shot.

[quote]Well, hmm, how much money do you get throughout the game?  Since it seems the only things you need to buy anymore are healing items, a few Arche spells, and boat trips, I'm thinking about a second mystic symbol.  I don't know, that's probably crazy since the Mystic Symbol is insane in cost, and you're already finding the casters less useful than planned.  I guess you could buy the Combo Command for Cress.  If you used it correctly, I'm sure it could speed things up.[/quote]
first: checking a save i had right before the unicorn forest, the money was at 228k.  That is with a lot of fights in morlia and stuff, but then add up what i think is like 30k (or at least 15) from the evil lords and 25k from present dhaos...

second: two mystic symbols take about 20 seconds to get.  i do need both of them it seems until about volt.  from then on out, klarth's mana pool and insane aska damage appear to totally obsolete arche.  i should check, but it may be illegal to put both of them on klarth.

third: combo command?  i have no fucking idea what that is :-[[quote]Hmm, I can't think any of the secret skill books would help either as Tiger Blade is probably the only tech you'll master.[/quote]ha, if that.

[quote]I didn't realize that unless you get the uber stuff like Pluto/Extension that Arche and Claus end up doing less dps than Cress by the end of the game.  If that's the case, then yeah, you'd probably want to put Mint back in as Sharpness would speed up Cress a lot, and I think Pow Hammers might not stop the action so she could somewhat support you like Chester, except worse.  There's also acid rain; I don't know if that's helping.[/quote]
aska is very close in dps (i can't tell which is better...it totally destroys cress against the blocklock eye) against single targets but adds a much needed hit during cress' "recovery" that chester doesn't like to do much.
[quote]Also, as per the Laser Blade in Thor, I guess you could get it from the boss as he has 3SH's as minions, but you could also get it from random encounters in Thor.  I guess the boss is probably more ideal though unless the laser blade speeds up the boss fight a ton.[/quote]although it wouldn't, i have to comment that in that fight nobody does jack except for the indignation mistress. >_>

anyway, bummer about those laser swords.  it'd save like three fucking minutes on present dhaos.
[quote]I thought the enemies that dropped Derris Emblems only appeared in the dungeon, or at least were a lot more common there.  Try seeing how well you can harvest down in the dungeon itself rather than on the main path, unless I misread what you said and you were trying that.  Then again it is a lot of luck; they didn't mean for you to avoid the Derris Emblem.  I think you can somewhat SB it if you have Suzu, but there's no way you're getting Suzu.  So skipping the Derris Emblem might end up being a thing for a TAS run only.[/quote]
yes, i was working in the basement/dungeon.  it's rather pointless anyway, as you'd either end up with a ton of fights in a row in the basement or you'd have to go back and save after each victory which is not worth it.

the hanzos really aren't so bad anyway.  i'll take them over 1% chance derris emblems any day.  edit:  especially now that i just found out that chaining tiger blade will kill them with 0 effort.
[quote]Seriously, good luck against Dhaos's second form in the final fight.  I remember I basically beat it by virtue of the uberness of Pluto and Extension, and you're going in underleveled/underequiped.  At least the other two forms go down easily to spamming.[/quote]
i'll have to see.  but if some crazy japanese guy can do a low level game on the psx version, i have to imagine that on this easier game with characters who've actually been allowed to gain a few levels, i might just have a shot.

TSA

2006-06-01 10:55:24 pm

Retired

I beat the game last week at 23 hours total. I played that "Let's Go Arche" crap...but I'm done. I'm gonna return it to GameStop for credit this weekend. Fun, but no way I'm playing it again.

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-06-03 12:25:21 am

2006-06-03 12:09:10 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

final save: 8:16

there should be an easy couple minutes in there since you can run from basically every encounter on floor 4 and up.

this game is a pretty poor choice for running. it plays really slowly and there are a ton of cutscenes (sometimes it seems that the cutscenes must be longer than kevin's whole ff4 run...though the japanese 3:42 indicates that this is probably not the case). plus, it's repetitive...
"sylph!"
"debris fall!"
"sylph!"
"debris fall!"
"sylph!"
"debris fall!"
"sylph!"
"undine!"
"debris fall!"
"undine!"
"debris fall!"
"undine!"
"debris fall!"
"undine!"
"debris fall!"
"luna!"
"ray!"
"luna!"
"ray!"
"luna!"
"ray!"
"luna!"
"indignation!"
"luna!"
"indignation!"
"luna!"
"indignation!"
"maxwell!"
"indignation!"
"volt!"
"indignation!"
"volt!"
"indignation!"
"volt!"
"indignation!"
"volt!"
"aska!" ad infinitum

uhm, sorry about that. anyway, even the more interesting parts of this run are more of a theoretical interest and rather dull to watch in practice (step step step step step MENU step step step step step MENU step step step step step MENU).

but, i think i've figured the whole thing out. i should probably do another practice run-if it doesn't come in an hour faster, i give up.

as for dhaos, first form flies by...he's quite weak and easy to combo.

second form can be mostly stalled by getting under the face and spamming tiger blade but he's got that evil arm swing move which frequently buys the head enough time to use extinction. to solve this arche needs to be in the party to make sure that he's locked down at all times, since it's hard to be lucky enough with the tiger blades and just aska.

edit: i whined a lot about this run. i will continue to whine a lot about this run. but this game has been more enjoyable to work on than radiance. i don't really like recording, though, so this one may not see the light of day for a long time.

final save: 8:16

there should be an easy couple minutes in there since you can run from basically every encounter on floor 4 and up.

this game is a pretty poor choice for running.  it plays really slowly and there are a ton of cutscenes (sometimes it seems that the cutscenes must be longer than kevin's whole ff4 run...though the japanese 3:42 indicates that this is probably not the case).  plus, it's repetitive...
"sylph!"
"debris fall!"
"sylph!"
"debris fall!"
"sylph!"
"debris fall!"
"sylph!"
"undine!"
"debris fall!"
"undine!"
"debris fall!"
"undine!"
"debris fall!"
"undine!"
"debris fall!"
"luna!"
"ray!"
"luna!"
"ray!"
"luna!"
"ray!"
"luna!"
"indignation!"
"luna!"
"indignation!"
"luna!"
"indignation!"
"maxwell!"
"indignation!"
"volt!"
"indignation!"
"volt!"
"indignation!"
"volt!"
"indignation!"
"volt!"
"aska!" ad infinitum

uhm, sorry about that.  anyway, even the more interesting parts of this run are more of a theoretical interest and rather dull to watch in practice (step step step step step MENU step step step step step MENU step step step step step MENU).

but, i think i've figured the whole thing out.  i should probably do another practice run-if it doesn't come in an hour faster, i give up.

as for dhaos, first form flies by...he's quite weak and easy to combo.

second form can be mostly stalled by getting under the face and spamming tiger blade [i]but[/i] he's got that evil arm swing move which frequently buys the head enough time to use extinction.  to solve this arche needs to be in the party to make sure that he's locked down at all times, since it's hard to be lucky enough with the tiger blades and just aska.

edit: i whined a lot about this run.  i will continue to whine a lot about this run.  but this game has been more enjoyable to work on than radiance.  i don't really like recording, though, so this one may not see the light of day for a long time.