Tales of Phantasia

2006-05-12 02:51:48 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

my strat for the golems before was to kick behind one of them and mash my way across the screen. now i can't get behind them.

but there's a bigger problem, and that's that i can't seem to avoid a dreaded "zombie 3" fight in the catacombs either, which leaves me totally hosed even if i do escape it. why isn't the kick working!?

getter77

2006-05-12 03:55:41 am

100% runs=great to watch

Honestly, like Phoenix, I gave up entirely pretty much on the swallow kick in this game versus the SNES one....the moves just don't work as well period.

That said, I never had the ability to get behind ANYTHING that couldn't jump over me :-/ ...so my Golem/skelly fights we head on.

For the zombies, well...I recommend a standing stab and the like of demon fangs and such. Against most enemies in fact I find it works better, at least in the present, to just use a series of normal attacks and conserve tp for bosses and such....same with flare bottles though they barely do anything at this point in the game.

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-05-12 04:49:53 am

2006-05-12 04:10:55 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

okay, i got to the golem twins without being messed over, and even figured out how to beat them. however, this is some hellish luck manipulation. basically, i start by mashing down a, to get a jump on the right-hand golem. then i bash him up a little into the right edge of the field. when the other golem gets close, i spam swallow dance and pray for a stun (it almost always works). then i turn and start going the other way, spamming side+a, a to the left. when i hit that wall, hit swallow dance once and hope again for the stun (this one also usually comes, though i need this one sooner than the first). then repeat to the right. unfortunately, when this happens and i'm going to the right, the right one almost always uses the rapid punch which totally fucks it up. if the one on the left is far enough, i can kind of recover, but then i need to get two more stuns after that and survive the whole time.

maybe what i need to do is kill mint, and do this with chester. i can die and send him to sit in the middle. then he can life bottle cress as soon as he'll be behind the other golem. then cress can cross the screen, spamming side a up to the wall, then down-a-ing through.

edit: the other thing is, not only is there not more than two save slots, it doesn't appear that you can check your time in the menu screens or any time you're not saving.

that's bull. or i'm stupid. quite possibly both.

okay, i got to the golem twins without being messed over, and even figured out how to beat them.  however, this is some hellish luck manipulation.  basically, i start by mashing down a, to get a jump on the right-hand golem.  then i bash him up a little into the right edge of the field.  when the other golem gets close, i spam swallow dance and pray for a stun (it almost always works).  then i turn and start going the other way, spamming side+a, a to the left.  when i hit that wall, hit swallow dance once and hope again for the stun (this one also usually comes, though i need this one sooner than the first).  then repeat to the right.  unfortunately, when this happens and i'm going to the right, the right one almost always uses the rapid punch which totally fucks it up.  if the one on the left is far enough, i can kind of recover, but then i need to get two more stuns after that and survive the whole time.

maybe what i need to do is kill mint, and do this with chester.  i can die and send him to sit in the middle.  then he can life bottle cress as soon as he'll be behind the other golem.  then cress can cross the screen, spamming side a up to the wall, then down-a-ing through.

edit: the other thing is, not only is there not more than two save slots, it doesn't appear that you can check your time in the menu screens or any time you're not saving.

that's bull.  or i'm stupid.  quite possibly both.

MMAN

Edit history:

MMAN: 2006-05-12 11:08:26 am

2006-05-12 11:06:57 am

Since this is supposed to be a mish-mash of the SFC and PS version, which version are the character stats taken from? The main thing I'm asking this for is Klarth/Clause; from what I've played of the PS version (I "got" it to wait for the translation patch, but got curious and played through about a quarter of it) Klarth's/Clause's initial stats seem hugely nerfed.

In the SFC version, despite having no spells initially, Klarth/Clause starts with more HP than Cless/Cress (at least, he has in every playthrough so far, and I've played through it about seven times), and his defense is absolutely insane with the opal ring that you get about two minutes after him joining you; with it he's literally invincible to everything except Helllords and spells up until Demitels mansion. In the PS version his stats seem pretty average and you don't seem to even get the opal ring (as it's in japanese it's hard to tell, but none of the rings seem to affect his defense). If the TAS is anything to go by his temporary god-mode isn't much use for a speedrun, but in real-time it might be a lot more useful if his stats are from the SFC version, as he would make an excellent meatshield.

How is the Shoki/Miasma (I think that's what I've heard the mist is called in the GBA version) in the GBA version? In the SFC version there are several resting spots and it's pretty weak, but in the PS version it's nasty as hell and is all over the place with no respite.

Are the spells from the PS version? In that case is Arche's Cyclone (I think it's the spell you get off the Elder in Totus) as insanely powerful as it is in the PS version (The other chracters do about 300-400 with their best attacks at the moment; Cyclone does about 1200+ and casts quickly)?

Speaking of Arche's spells, would getting Judgement really be worth the pain of Thor? In the SFC version God breath (the spell you get in Thor in that) is pretty sucky compared to stuff like Indignation, or is Judgement really awesome in this?

Since this is supposed to be a mish-mash of the SFC and PS version, which version are the character stats taken from? The main thing I'm asking this for is Klarth/Clause; from what I've played of the PS version (I "got" it to wait for the translation patch, but got curious and played through about a quarter of it) Klarth's/Clause's initial stats seem hugely nerfed.

In the SFC version, despite having no spells initially, Klarth/Clause starts with more HP than Cless/Cress (at least, he has in every playthrough so far, and I've played through it about seven times), and his defense is absolutely insane with the opal ring that you get about two minutes after him joining you; with it he's literally invincible to everything except Helllords and spells up until Demitels mansion. In the PS version his stats seem pretty average and you don't seem to even get the opal ring (as it's in japanese it's hard to tell, but none of the rings seem to affect his defense). If the TAS is anything to go by his temporary god-mode isn't much use for a speedrun, but in real-time it might be a lot more useful if his stats are from the SFC version, as he would make an excellent meatshield.

How is the Shoki/Miasma (I think that's what I've heard the mist is called in the GBA version) in the GBA version? In the SFC version there are several resting spots and it's pretty weak, but in the PS version it's nasty as hell and is all over the place with no respite.

Are the spells from the PS version? In that case is Arche's Cyclone (I think it's the spell you get off the Elder in Totus) as insanely powerful as it is in the PS version (The other chracters do about 300-400 with their best attacks at the moment; Cyclone does about 1200+ and casts quickly)?

Speaking of Arche's spells, would getting Judgement really be worth the pain of Thor? In the SFC version God breath (the spell you get in Thor in that) is pretty sucky compared to stuff like Indignation, or is Judgement really awesome in this?

getter77

2006-05-12 01:24:58 pm

100% runs=great to watch

Can't say all for sure..but Miasma=SFC...Cyclone=PS

Klarth isn't nearly as awesome with his no-summons yet self as he was in the SFC..

VorpalEdge

2006-05-13 03:45:32 am

welcome to the machine

I didn't think judgement was too good. Was at the level of indignation or slightly higher iirc, and without the good lightning-type damage.

spineshark

2006-05-13 04:10:44 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

okay, here's a question: is there a difference between gnome->undine->efreet and efreet->gnome->undine in terms of time?

i should be doing this testing on vba. unfortunately, it runs like junk on my computer.

VorpalEdge

2006-05-13 04:31:22 am

welcome to the machine

Gnome is crap. Undine deals good damage to all on screen and has lesser casting time than Efreet iirc. Efreet does better damage to a couple, but if he kills one thing subsequent shots may miss.

I'd mostly stick with Undine, but you want Efreet for ymir forest.

Amazing Ampharos

Edit history:

Amazing Ampharos: 2006-05-13 05:08:36 am

2006-05-13 05:03:25 am

Judgment might not be better than Indignation at all, but it saves time against Volt. I'm almost entirely certain that Arche being able to nail him with a spell on the same tier as Indignation is well worth the small amount of extra time spent in Thor for Judgment(it's easily one of the least out the way spells).

I'm really curious about the planned weapon route for Cress. I think saving money in general is a better idea than spending it as in the future you can buy some pretty amazing stuff with it. I think Laser Blade is an A+ purchase, but I might just be crazy.

Also, for the tower of flames, if you started a segment right before entering, you could luck abuse a double fire charm drop and keep Cress + Mint alive. Then right before the boss have Mint revive everyone. It's probably a bit more efficient than using Life Bottles there in terms of time. Cress + anyone else really is a good idea, and you can get a double flame charm drop so it's not too unreasonable.

I think doing Gnome -> Undine -> Efreet is fastest as it's the route of least overworld travel. Gnome is a useless summon no question(he's really not better than Sylph, and she's a blatently early game tech), but doing him last would be a problem as he's quite far away from Morlia and you have opportunities to do him early. Also, you could do Gnome as soon as you get his pact ring which is after Sylph if I recall correctly(eh, 2 of the 3 of this set, and I don't remember where you get the last one) so you would be saving a lot of travel time by doing him right then and then doing Undine and Efreet after getting Arche. I think the password's always Kikurin; if not you can luck abuse it.

Judgment might not be better than Indignation at all, but it saves time against Volt.  I'm almost entirely certain that Arche  being able to nail him with a spell on the same tier as Indignation is well worth the small amount of extra time spent in Thor for Judgment(it's easily one of the least out the way spells).

I'm really curious about the planned weapon route for Cress.  I think saving money in general is a better idea than spending it as in the future you can buy some pretty amazing stuff with it.  I think Laser Blade is an A+ purchase, but I might just be crazy.

Also, for the tower of flames, if you started a segment right before entering, you could luck abuse a double fire charm drop and keep Cress + Mint alive.  Then right before the boss have Mint revive everyone.  It's probably a bit more efficient than using Life Bottles there in terms of time.  Cress + anyone else really is a good idea, and you can get a double flame charm drop so it's not too unreasonable.

I think doing Gnome -> Undine -> Efreet is fastest as it's the route of least overworld travel.  Gnome is a useless summon no question(he's really not better than Sylph, and she's a blatently early game tech), but doing him last would be a problem as he's quite far away from Morlia and you have opportunities to do him early.  Also, you could do Gnome as soon as you get his pact ring which is after Sylph if I recall correctly(eh, 2 of the 3 of this set, and I don't remember where you get the last one) so you would be saving a lot of travel time by doing him right then and then doing Undine and Efreet after getting Arche.  I think the password's always Kikurin; if not you can luck abuse it.

VorpalEdge

Edit history:

VorpalEdge: 2006-05-13 05:15:55 am

2006-05-13 05:13:29 am

welcome to the machine

Judgement deals extra damage against volt? Cool. I'll make sure to get it my first time through thor next playthrough.

You want to at least consider Aska, btw. You can get it the second you get the techbirds, and it rocks so much.

Yeah, you want to save money for the laser blade, but that's mostly because you don't really need to spend much money on his weapons until the laser blade. Of course, that alone will break the bank...

I'd really really try to find good armor in dungeons, just so you can save for that stupid laser blade.

On Gnome: I don't think you can get him until after you save the prince of alvanista. At least, you can't get Efreet until then, even though you can go through the entire cave beforehand. I can't remember if you have his pact ring by then though; that may be it.

I would honestly go Efreet -> Gnome -> Undine simply because you'll gain lots more exp through the cave of burning sand, and will be able to rush through Undine's island.

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-05-13 05:26:15 am

2006-05-13 05:24:58 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

i just checked a walkthrough, because i didn't remember :-/ and arche gives you two of the pact rings, then you get two in alvanista for saving the prince.

i think that doing gnome after alvanista, then undine, then efreet is going to be the way to go though.

hrmm, uh-oh, i really am going to have to test. it's true, efreet does make undine much, much easier and faster.

LinkTheValiant

2006-05-13 07:40:21 am

May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce

Efreet>Gnome>Undine is definitely the best way to go. You cannot get any of the three until you save the prince.

Will Judgement save that much time against Volt? As I recall, he's weak enough against fire. The Fire Storm (or whatever the GBA version calls it; I'm not used to the GBA version as opposed to SNES yet) spell hurts him. I think its damage is on a par with Judgement. . .

If only Shadow's animation weren't so frickin' long. . . Otherwise you'd be getting him instead of Aska.

Mystic Symbols are awesome, but be sure not to have more than one character equipped with them. Two will eat more time than they save.

The best way to kill late game enemies is to force them to a corner and then Aegis Strike them. 10,000-20,000 damage easily in 15 seconds.

Enhasa

2006-05-13 09:19:36 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote:

Above scene was straight up RIPPED from the first opening of an anime by the name of Yakitate! Japan!. Still....always a funny scene.

Somehow, I'm not so sure that the American ad agency people have watched an anime I've never heard of. Tongue

Anyway, I guess not a lot of Legendia players here. (I personally only played a little bit of a friend's game myself)

Quote:

I've been playing this game. I'm a newbie to it, but I found the random battle encouters way too high.

I don't know why everyone says this, because I thought it was pretty average. Some areas (more deadly?) have more and some have less, which I like better than in most games where it doesn't depend on the area. To add to what spineshark said, at least in the SFC version, if you walk rather than run, you also have less encounters that way.

Amazing Ampharos

2006-05-14 12:43:44 am

Do you mean the fire spell you get when you beat Efreet? I guess that could work, but shouldn't it be a lot weaker inherently than Judgement? Judgement is a really powerful spell, and it takes very little time to get. Yeah, if only Indignation hit Volt...

Are you sure you have to save the prince before Gnome? If you have the pact ring, you should be able to just go to his cave. Has anyone tested this and actually gone to Gnome's chamber and found him not there?

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-05-14 04:57:26 am

2006-05-14 04:28:27 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

oh bitching. the past in 0:36 (that's before lenios). you have to get punched by one golem onto the ground while the other is coming near, then you'll end up with both of them on the same side of you. or, at least, i think so. if anybody could test...

is the nancy/elwyn crap required?

edit: sylph's mountain/first yggdrassil visit finished in 1:02. what a lot of cutscenes.

Amazing Ampharos

2006-05-14 06:38:18 am

You can completely ignore Nancy and Elwin. They take a long time, and the only reward is the bridal gloves. The only sidequest I would begin to think about is the Elven Bow, and even that's still way too slow to be of any use at all.

I still seriously question that you can't do Gnome right now in your playthrough.

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-05-14 07:02:45 am

2006-05-14 07:02:31 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

i will test it, as i am nearby, but i am 99% sure that it won't work...unless you're supposed to be required to pick up the emerald ring (i did, because it was there).

spineshark

2006-05-15 11:53:51 pm

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

doesn't work.

i beat demitel, but i forgot to stock up on stuffs before heading out there, so i lost probably four minutes going back and healing and crap. i'm at 1:27 on the boat, and i can probably improve that by almost ten minutes on a real run. this thing is mostly me seeing how early i can beat bosses. Sad

and by the way, i did need the emerald ring, because as it turned out i didn't have the money to ride the boat. 35k gold is a pretty serious chunk of cash, especially because i don't know that i'll be spending any more in the past.

VorpalEdge

2006-05-15 11:57:59 pm

welcome to the machine

You sold the emerald ring?

You'll be wishing for it later. Are you absolutely sure you couldn't have done anything else?

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-05-16 04:32:30 am

2006-05-16 04:29:07 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

bad news. my inventory is totally bare. aside from a savory and a couple of junk weapons, there's nothing.

good news. i bought the walloon sword. totally not doing that next time. in fact that 1600 gold is the exact amount needed for the boat fare to demitel's manor. there, i can pick up the ranseur (i forgot this thing existed because i only used it in two fights haha) and stomp the two bosses needed to get the gungnir.

however, this leaves me with a tough choice of three weapons to get through a very hard part of the run...the 2x golem to 2x oak root. the knight sword can be picked up from toltus, but it takes a long time (i expect at least two minutes) and might not be worth it. the saber can be found in the catacombs, costing less than 15 seconds. or i could try and tough it out with the rapier (i don't know that the 2x sylph+2x sylph2 battle is possible with low levels and the rapier though).

incidentally, i thought i was going to need about a billion orange gels starting at dhaos' castle whether or not i used the emerald ring, though i guess this is one of those things that's just going to turn out one way or the other eventually.

bad news.  my inventory is totally bare.  aside from a savory and a couple of junk weapons, there's nothing.

good news.  i bought the walloon sword.  totally not doing that next time.  in fact that 1600 gold is the exact amount needed for the boat fare to demitel's manor.  there, i can pick up the ranseur (i forgot this thing existed because i only used it in two fights haha) and stomp the two bosses needed to get the gungnir.

however, this leaves me with a tough choice of three weapons to get through a very hard part of the run...the 2x golem to 2x oak root.  the knight sword can be picked up from toltus, but it takes a long time (i expect at least two minutes) and might not be worth it.  the saber can be found in the catacombs, costing less than 15 seconds.  or i could try and tough it out with the rapier (i don't know that the 2x sylph+2x sylph2 battle is possible with low levels and the rapier though).

incidentally, i thought i was going to need about a billion orange gels starting at dhaos' castle whether or not i used the emerald ring, though i guess this is one of those things that's just going to turn out one way or the other eventually.

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-05-16 11:16:58 pm

2006-05-16 11:04:27 pm

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

okay, i saved at venezzia, ready to go to the limestone cavern, in 1:52 last night (before that, i was outside the cave of spirits in 1:44, and before that i was fighting jahmir in the 1:30s...). at this rate, the final run will be at least half an hour faster than whatever i get like this. here's my known mistakes right now:
30 seconds in mystic forest-because i was stupid
30 more in the dungeon-didn't grab the rapier on the first pass because i didn't check where it was (this was my first save and i didn't want to botch it up more)...this means that i should be able to get 0:21 i think after the scene at morrison's house

probably 30 seconds for not using the good strategy (which i saw my brother pull off in the molten cavern last night) on the golem twins. what it actually is is getting close to the one on the left, then attacking the one on the right, causing cress to return to his prior spot...which is now behind the one on the left

euclid: almost 4 minutes because i did elwyn and nancy...while typing messages here... >.<

hamel: 1 minute (+extra time using gels) for buying the walloon sword, necessitating selling the emerald ring to buy a boat trip

sylph's mountain: i forgot what was going on and fought a 2x harpy battle. probably ten seconds

mystic forest again: i botched the pathing less, so probably 20 seconds Sad

demitel's manor: fought two random encounters, backed out of the basement to rest, didn't use ai settings on klarth (i manually targeted his spells twice but didn't use them otherwise, costing time when it was down to just demitel)-3 minutes

alvanista: saved out of town to reduce the cutscenes slightly. botched the stealth sequence once. 1 minute. bad jahmir battle...i got really "lucky" and everybody died except arche...who managed to trap them in a corner where they couldn't hit her (for some reason the minions wouldn't jump to hit her and jahmir can't attack horizontally O_O). i lost a minute from not doing damage with cress and klarth, and also because i let her just sit there for 20 seconds before i figured out why she wasn't dead.

belladum: had to use the elder's house for an inn because everybody was dead. got into one encounter in the cave of spirits. 2 minutes.

this leaves me thinking...that doing this again will be one hell of a chore Tongue

okay, i saved at venezzia, ready to go to the limestone cavern, in 1:52 last night (before that, i was outside the cave of spirits in 1:44, and before [i]that[/i] i was fighting jahmir in the 1:30s...).  at this rate, the final run will be at least half an hour faster than whatever i get like this.  here's my known mistakes right now:
30 seconds in mystic forest-because i was stupid
30 more in the dungeon-didn't grab the rapier on the first pass because i didn't check where it was (this was my first save and i didn't want to botch it up more)...this means that i should be able to get 0:21 i think after the scene at morrison's house

probably 30 seconds for not using the good strategy (which i saw my brother pull off in the molten cavern last night) on the golem twins.  what it actually is is getting close to the one on the left, then attacking the one on the right, causing cress to return to his prior spot...which is now behind the one on the left

euclid: almost 4 minutes because i did elwyn and nancy...while typing messages here... >.<

hamel: 1 minute (+extra time using gels) for buying the walloon sword, necessitating selling the emerald ring to buy a boat trip

sylph's mountain: i forgot what was going on and fought a 2x harpy battle.  probably ten seconds

mystic forest again: i botched the pathing less, so probably 20 seconds :(

demitel's manor: fought two random encounters, backed out of the basement to rest, didn't use ai settings on klarth (i manually targeted his spells twice but didn't use them otherwise, costing time when it was down to just demitel)-3 minutes

alvanista: saved out of town to reduce the cutscenes slightly.  botched the stealth sequence once. 1 minute.  bad jahmir battle...i got really "lucky" and everybody died except arche...who managed to trap them in a corner where they couldn't hit her (for some reason the minions wouldn't jump to hit her and jahmir can't attack horizontally O_O).  i lost a minute from not doing damage with cress and klarth, and also because i let her just sit there for 20 seconds before i figured out why she wasn't dead.

belladum: had to use the elder's house for an inn because everybody was dead.  got into one encounter in the cave of spirits.  2 minutes.

this leaves me thinking...that doing this again will be one hell of a chore  :P

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-05-18 05:02:16 am

2006-05-18 05:01:35 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

another test run update. saved before undine in 1:58, saved after undine in 2:03. she's hard as hell without the efreet summon. 7k health? i just ssed the molten cave, which was a bad idea because klarth died, and arche is a retard (she likes to float over cless's head which...yeah...doesn't work). oh, and the (first) mystic symbol is at that dock at the limestone cave. ohhhh, yeah. i think that's not the one i had on my first playthrough though. anyway, i'm saved outside morlia at 2:17. unfortunately, holy bottles really don't work when you have no levels, and the encounters here are mean as hell for a mid-to-high teens party...even running away necessitates a lot of healing.

cress is level 17; hp is 1927 with black onyx
mint is level 13; i've done an okay job keeping her from experience
klarth is level 16, but he dies fast
arche is level 19...does her level affect her spell power?

getter77

2006-05-18 02:19:06 pm

100% runs=great to watch

Yes, IIRC her Int stat affects power just like Cress' Str boosts his attacks.

Try putting arche in the back of your formation since many enemies can't manage an attack to hit here while floating, thus giving Klarth/Mint a bit more breathing room.

spineshark

2006-05-18 02:44:29 pm

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

arche's position is fixed at the third from the left spot. what i just realized this means is that during boss battles i just have to move cless to the fourth from the left spot. ^_^

getter77

2006-05-18 06:10:26 pm

100% runs=great to watch

Hmmm...could've sworn ya could move her pretty much where ya liked. Still, good on for better boss placement strategy!