Super Mario Bros. 2

2012-11-02 05:00:53 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

Some further clarification:

I'm 99.9% sure TG would accept this. Really, I don't see why they wouldn't. It's just a fast boss fight, all three hits technically get in during the throw. If they rejected it because of that, it would be really dumb. There are much worse instances seen for other games and they allow these different tactics.

It would be just as silly as banning the "over the wall" trick now seen in 6-2. Obviously that's not intended, but it's more just clever routing than anything else. The 2 throw boss fight is obviously not intended, but nothing "glitchy" is going on. the game just takes it as two hits as you are stunned (and that time period is long enough to register a 2nd hit). I would argue with TG if it somehow was banned.

cak

2012-11-02 05:48:54 pm

twitch.tv/ccaakk

Thanks again. I agree, it seems like a legit strat (after thinking about it awhile), almost like you're holding the eagle in place so the block can register twice.

MASTER-88

Edit history:

MASTER-88: 2012-11-03 08:22:43 am

2012-11-03 08:22:01 am

Master-88

Make your run in SDA. There you not need thinking is trick banned or not.

Thats more interesting because we can also see your videos here somereason TG don´t even shows any videos about runs. TG is ancient WR site.

Any news your progress Andrew do you working on this anymore? I see you got sub 9 minutes run, but you can make lower time if you want.

Svenne

Edit history:

Svenne: 2012-11-03 11:48:38 am

2012-11-03 11:46:43 am

Smörgåsbord

@Cak, that should not be an issue really. The boss is programmed that way, so it's not a glitch, just the fastest way of killing it. Same train of though should apply on using the key to kill Birdo on 1-2. For your Glitchless run, I think Luigi would be the best on 1-2 and if you get any complains about the key strat, then I will argue with TG aswell.

andrewg

2012-11-03 07:44:07 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

I wonder if Tg would allow the carpet glitch - probably not, but honestly, I have no idea how it works or whether it was an intentional programming.

Strongfox

Edit history:

Strongfox: 2012-11-03 09:18:58 pm

Strongfox: 2012-11-03 09:16:58 pm

2012-11-03 09:16:52 pm

Quote from andrewg:

I wonder if Tg would allow the carpet glitch - probably not, but honestly, I have no idea how it works or whether it was an intentional programming.

Um, I don't think you should worry about TG that much as it is currently offline since Oct. 17'TH. They said it will be back sometime end of November. But nothing really planed for the future of TG until 2013 which they said they may have a concrete plan of action.

cak

2012-11-03 10:21:46 pm

twitch.tv/ccaakk

I hope TG will be able to accept scores by late November. It's pretty annoying timing, considering I just finished my second ever speedrun for them.

The carpet trick would prob be banned. I think it's really down to what makes sense physics-wise and/or what seems like it was intended by the programmers. The 1-2 key-carry makes sense, the shyguy jump in 6-3 makes sense, but the 7-2 eagle trick is less obvious. Ultimately I think it'll be ok...if not, 7-2 would be easier anyway, and only 256 frames would be lost.

Svenne

2012-11-05 08:35:45 am

Smörgåsbord

That is one thing that is interesting about All-Stars, the carpet glitch works on that version to. Double-jumps, going through floors, all of that stuff is gone, but the carpet glitch still works. So they actually decided to keep whatever makes that happen into the re-make. I would argue that it was intended. But more likely they didin't know about it, and if they did, would they really have change it anyways?

Hotarubi did not use it in his All-Levels run btw. So right there is something people should do if they want to take on the All-Stars record! Wink

cak

Edit history:

cak: 2012-12-10 10:07:31 pm

2012-12-10 05:25:56 pm

twitch.tv/ccaakk

8:52.5 (probably more like 8:51 in reality). I can still do better, but I need a break from playing.

Svenne

Edit history:

Svenne: 2012-12-10 11:05:06 pm

Svenne: 2012-12-10 10:33:30 pm

2012-12-10 10:26:12 pm

Smörgåsbord

You got this using TG rules?

Edit: Yes you did!

cak

2012-12-10 11:41:13 pm

twitch.tv/ccaakk

If I do another run, I decided I will use the 1-1 glitches, and record direct to DVD to ensure correct timing. (I have a more reliable recorder now.)
I made my best effort to master the carpet glitch, but I just think it's a total run killer. Obnoxiously hard.

Svenne

2012-12-11 05:29:37 am

Smörgåsbord

I hear you on that, was kinda why I stopped doing Any%, atleast until future races.! Wink

You can get like 3-4 version of the carpet glitch also. Two version where you end up on the carpet holding the bird, one time small and one time big. Doing the double jump into the door on 1-1, doing the wrap after it and then the carpet thing is hard, and after getting those perfect all your run need to be excellent, now with your run I atleast know a continuation plan on the big boss on 6-3, my strats consisted on doing the birdo perfect without getting his and I was pretty much screwed if I failed that!

Might be one of the reasons why I haven't gotten Sub 9 yet. Tongue

cak

2012-12-11 05:53:55 am

twitch.tv/ccaakk

Oh yeah, I know what you mean about 6-3. I think the Birdo method is about as fast as it gets within feasibility, so even though the Triclyde method is slightly slower than Andrew's, the two bosses combined is slightly faster and there's very little chance of dying.
Also, 1-1 is no problem, but I double jump from the bridge instead of the ground...still results in the early egg, of course.

Svenne

2012-12-11 06:36:54 am

Smörgåsbord

I guess if one got the fast kill on both bosses on 6-3 that it would be somewhat faster but meh! Smiley

I used to double jump from the bridge on 1-1, until a speedrunner I respected said it looked sloopy! And we wouldn't want that now would we! XD

You could probably submit it, Andrew did not bother submitting his 8:58 so don't know what is good enough. But for TG, this would be totally awesome! Cheesy

andrewg

Edit history:

andrewg: 2012-12-12 03:47:39 pm

andrewg: 2012-12-12 03:45:47 pm

2012-12-11 07:51:05 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

Congrats on the run! I'll have to watch it when I have time to breath.

I'm off!

EDIT: Alright, I'm back. Now... Let's see.

First off, great work! 8:51-8:52 TG time is really impressive. How much lower do you think you could bring the TG time? Also, as far as TG goes, I really have no idea what they are doing anymore. I don't think they really are "into" console stuff, so I feel like you may have a hard time getting the run verified by these new owners. Hopefully this isn't the case.

I'm gonna have to take a shot at this again sometime. Now that I have this new job, I don't have too much time to spare, but I hope to free up my schedule sometime in the next few months so I can get in the gaming I like to do :D. I'm not sure how soon I'll tackle smb2. I have a few projects in the works that I'd like to at least improve upon (potentially grab some WR runs on them too ;)).

I'm glad you finally put a video up as I can now see it as more "official" in a world record sense. Not that I didn't believe your previous time (8:54), but the proof is now out for all to see. Crazy stuff! Oh! And sorry i didn't respond on youtube, I watched the video you sent me before - I've just been very busy as of late.

Congrats on the run! I'll have to watch it when I have time to breath.

I'm off!

EDIT: Alright, I'm back. Now... Let's see.

First off, great work! 8:51-8:52 TG time is really impressive. How much lower do you think you could bring the TG time? Also, as far as TG goes, I really have no idea what they are doing anymore. I don't think they really are "into" console stuff, so I feel like you may have a hard time getting the run verified by these new owners. Hopefully this isn't the case.

I'm gonna have to take a shot at this again sometime. Now that I have this new job, I don't have too much time to spare, but I hope to free up my schedule sometime in the next few months so I can get in the gaming I like to do :D. I'm not sure how soon I'll tackle smb2. I have a few projects in the works that I'd like to at least improve upon (potentially grab some WR runs on them too ;)).

I'm glad you finally put a video up as I can now see it as more "official" in a world record sense. Not that I didn't believe your previous time (8:54), but the proof is now out for all to see. Crazy stuff! Oh! And sorry i didn't respond on youtube, I watched the video you sent me before - I've just been very busy as of late.

cak

2012-12-12 09:23:48 pm

twitch.tv/ccaakk

Thanks man! My old claim of 8:54 was intended to be taken with a grain of salt, so I'm likewise glad that I now have proof, heh heh. I think the glitchless time can come down to 8:47, maybe 8:46. However I'm at a point where I'm not so concerned about submitting to TG, at least not this particular game. I can submit to SDA, but chances are this run will be beaten again pretty soon, unless I can't resume playing for some reason.

Hope you liked the Pitfall II vid. It was quite fun to play, despite how primitive it looks (even compared to NES).

andrewg

Edit history:

andrewg: 2012-12-13 10:41:12 am

2012-12-13 10:39:41 am

Hi! I'm andrewg!

I think I've said this before, but I basically don't care about TG for anything speedrun related now. They never handled speedruns in their database very well nor did they want to accept a lot of them previously. I think TG is much better suited for score runs, and even then only a specific set of titles (Atari to SNES).

As far as speedruns go, I've always seen the SDA times as world records really (As in, when they are the fastest runs I can find online with video proof). I care about world records - but mostly so I have something I can compare to. I like to know who has the true best times whether they be on youtube, SDA, through SRL, Youtube, or other. I still want to create an unofficial speedrun world record database and list all known runs with video proof to support the claims.

Anyhow, good luck with you future runs; I'm looking forward to them. Smiley

cak

Edit history:

cak: 2012-12-27 06:04:11 am

cak: 2012-12-26 10:45:53 pm

cak: 2012-12-26 10:45:11 pm

cak: 2012-12-26 10:36:44 pm

2012-12-23 08:45:34 pm

twitch.tv/ccaakk

updated 12/26
warpless route emu movies, playable with FCEU

overall time: 21:45.6 with glitches (3-3, 5-2 and 5-3 need more difficulty testing)

andrewg

Edit history:

andrewg: 2012-12-24 03:02:45 pm

andrewg: 2012-12-24 03:02:20 pm

andrewg: 2012-12-24 03:01:01 pm

2012-12-24 03:00:51 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

I will say that TASing this game really makes me want to go back and look for even faster routes than we've found already. It was one of my largest projects and I love the tricks Aglar and I were able to come up with. I am very curious as to which are possible on console and which aren't even feasible. A while back, I had done a preliminary run to try and test out various techniques from our TAS.

There's a lot of potential for improvements all around I'd say... but mostly I think the tricks will be too difficult for a real time speedrun. I'd love to see some more things incorporated though.

Nice work once again cak! I'm very curious to what you end up with. Cheesy

cak

Edit history:

cak: 2012-12-24 03:38:02 pm

2012-12-24 03:37:02 pm

twitch.tv/ccaakk

I haven't studied the TAS or tmont's run in depth yet, so it was fun to try and figure out many things (not everything) on my own. I did pick characters based on what those runs used, along with consideration of which character felt right to me. I think a few tricks are kinda out of reach for a real run, such as the perfect Clawgrip (where one stone effects 5 hits) and perfect vine jumps in 5-2.

It could be awhile before I try this on console...I just wanted to get my findings out there for anyone else interested. Smiley

Svenne

2012-12-25 01:43:39 am

Smörgåsbord

Going right after the vine is about 3 seconds faster on 3-1 after some research, but alot harder! Cheesy

And I kinda feel like the hardest level seems to be 2-1, getting that star-kill on Birdo is really hard. More research going into this game is awesome! There are about 4 experts on this game so more research is needed! Cheesy

Merry Christmas!

cak

Edit history:

cak: 2012-12-26 10:42:14 pm

cak: 2012-12-26 10:41:40 pm

cak: 2012-12-26 10:39:26 pm

cak: 2012-12-25 02:30:01 pm

2012-12-25 02:24:11 pm

twitch.tv/ccaakk

Merry xmas! Ah yes, I almost gave up on the 2-1 star strat until I did some testing. The method in the vid is dependable (except for when the star doesn't spawn cuz of too many sprites), but not the fastest. Making it to Birdo is easy if you move to the left a little before the star touches you.

edit: Replaced fcm attachments with mediafire link so I can add improvements later.

Svenne

Edit history:

Svenne: 2012-12-30 09:28:47 am

Svenne: 2012-12-30 09:18:29 am

Svenne: 2012-12-30 09:10:56 am

Svenne: 2012-12-30 09:10:11 am

Svenne: 2012-12-30 09:07:27 am

Svenne: 2012-12-30 09:02:08 am

Svenne: 2012-12-30 08:57:11 am

2012-12-30 08:55:19 am

Smörgåsbord

WOW All-Stars is so broken

http://www.twitch.tv/svenne1138/c/1805310

The vine on All-Stars got information pre-installed in it.

Edit: This kinda means that all-stars is gonna be faster to run. The walking speed on all characters is faster already and most of the tricks that we made for NES can now be used on SNES. In a legit SDA kind of way, ofc! XD This makes me truly happy, finally seeing things we have made incorporated into future runs! :3

ag

2012-12-31 09:30:23 am

Is that from a new file?

Svenne

Edit history:

Svenne: 2012-12-31 11:45:55 am

Svenne: 2012-12-31 10:26:00 am

Svenne: 2012-12-31 10:25:34 am

Svenne: 2012-12-31 10:22:52 am

2012-12-31 10:17:32 am

Smörgåsbord

Yes, ag! You got all-stars, try it yourself! Wink

Edit: but like my super *** Warp, you have do it on the right side of the vine, you will fall down outside the door leading to the short-cut, do it to far on the left, you fall down in the room where the ninji is. And you want to use the bottle here because you need to be big after you do this move. Because then you walk into the door, it's time to do your trick on the stairs. Also, your Key-skip on 1-3 works perfectly well on All-Stars! Wink