Super Mario Bros.

2014-06-30 09:29:31 am

Quote from andrewg:

haha...with all feasible frame rules and a flawless 8-4, the time is 4:56.99, right?

How are the emulator runs timed? With the difference in framerate, it's around a half a second advantage when playing on console in a 5 minute run.

Blubbler

Edit history:

Blubbler: 2014-06-30 09:52:59 am

2014-06-30 09:52:19 am

Quote from andrewg:

haha...with all feasible frame rules and a flawless 8-4, the time is 4:56.99, right?

I'm not sure about that, because the potential frame in 8-4 room 2 is only a maybe and I think 4:57.01 more likely.

Quote from ktwo:

How are the emulator runs timed? With the difference in framerate, it's around a half a second advantage when playing on console in a 5 minute run.

FCEUX runs at the correct framerate (as do several other NES emulators like Nestopia for example). And I converted the framecount to get my time.
Though if I time it by the Twitch highlight, I get 4:57.80 and I don't know where this ~0.03% difference comes from, probably the Twitch encoding or emulator lag.

Anyway I don't know why SNES emulator runners don't convert their times to what it'd have been at the proper framerate, it's not like the game running 0.2% slower makes execution much easier. Likewise I wouldn't see a problem with someone running SMB on VC and converting the time.

ktwo

2014-06-30 11:18:18 am

Thanks, then I learned something today. I always thought nes emus ran at exactly 60 fps, but that's maybe only the old ones.

cak

2014-06-30 11:55:37 am

twitch.tv/ccaakk

Sometimes sound chip emulators run at 60 fps. I've never heard of full blown emus running at that though.

andrewg

2014-06-30 05:40:54 pm

The idea of 4:56 seems absolutely impossible even if another frame rule were found. 4:57.1x seems to be the realistic limit.. Thoughts?

doicm

2014-06-30 08:08:26 pm

I wasn't sure if this was the proper place to post, but I don't know the rules on YouTube and videos either:

IGN posted Blubbler's video with their watermark. They gave him proper credit and such, but the watermark is a bit offsetting. Just thought I'd share here and see if there were any problems with that:

Alko

2014-07-01 05:02:00 pm

Caution: This user contains Kana ^_^

Quote from andrewg:

The idea of 4:56 seems absolutely impossible even if another frame rule were found. 4:57.1x seems to be the realistic limit.. Thoughts?

If the frame rule assumptions you made in your former posts are correct, and a 4:56.9something is possible getting all frame rules and the best possible 8-4 … Then 4:57.notverymuch will probably be the realistic limit people could aim for as a goal. Within another ten years of people playing the game one very lucky bastard will then manage to get teh absolutely perfect urn, and grab the 4:56 time, while not necessarily being the best of the 4:57 crew. That's my thoughts on the matter.

Doicm: Yeah, that watermark is damn obnoxious ô.o

andrewg

2014-07-02 10:26:13 am

4:56 wont happen, it requires 1 framerule too many. Theoretically, it could be possible, but it wont happen.

Which is kinda nuts considering the time now...haha

andrewg

2014-07-03 08:57:41 pm

Someone should make this 4:57.01 or whatever it will be TAS. I'm thinking though, does it require a waiting period at the intro? I'm going to try and make this TAS (though, I'm not very good or quick at it...).

MASTER-88

2014-07-04 07:30:33 am

Master-88

Some years ago we say 4:59 will be final possible human limit. Now we are got 4:57. Why not 4:56 in next 10-20 years later. But yeah its looooooonnnnggggg way. Probably its never happen.

I have to say congrats Blubber. Sad you make it emulator. Its never will be accepted in SDA with this reason. But what ever it is really awesome to see someone make long way make under 4:58. Its finally happen.

HappyLee

2014-07-07 05:16:46 am

Quote from andrewg:

What was the console limit TAS without left+right? or has anyone produced an actual video for that?

I just made a demonstration TAS to answer that:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/548286389/SMB%20RTA%20rules%20TAS%20by%20HappyLee.fcm

It turned out that the TAS under RTA rules was just 15 frames slower than the regular warped TAS, and all of the frames lost were from 8-4. Hope it helps you a bit. Smiley

Strongfox

2014-07-07 08:36:06 am

LordSaradoc on youtube got world record under 4:58 with time of 4:57.69

I have no name

Edit history:

I have no name: 2014-07-07 08:40:52 am

2014-07-07 08:40:10 am

Obscure games ftw

Quote from Blubbler:

It happened!

framebreakdown compared to human TAS:
4-2: 21 frames slower than human TAS because of 3 backwards jumps instead of 2
8-2: 42 frames faster than human TAS because of a perfect bullet bill glitch
8-4:
room 1: perfect
room 2: lost 5 frames (good)
room 3: lost 4 frames (good)
room 4: lost 6 frames (bad)
room 5: lost 1 frame (okay)
8-4 was 3 frames faster than in the WR.
Overall 21 (4-2) + 16 (8-4) = 37 frames from "perfect" (that is ignoring flagpole glitches without enemies, wallclips and backwards jumps for faster acceleration, all of which are near TAS-only).

This is old news Strongfox Tongue

Also, been lruking in this thread for a while, grats Blubbler on the 4:57-didn't want to just make a congratlations post since there was already an entire page of them Tongue

Blubbler

2014-07-07 09:39:42 am

Quote from HappyLee:

Quote from andrewg:

What was the console limit TAS without left+right? or has anyone produced an actual video for that?

I just made a demonstration TAS to answer that:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/548286389/SMB%20RTA%20rules%20TAS%20by%20HappyLee.fcm

It turned out that the TAS under RTA rules was just 15 frames slower than the regular warped TAS, and all of the frames lost were from 8-4. Hope it helps you a bit. Smiley

nice, that's the difference between a real expert and my amateurish attempts Cheesy

andrewg

2014-07-07 03:09:03 pm

Wow!Thanks for the split Blubbler Smiley

I'm very surprised that left+right only saves time in 8-4... Does this mean that an extra frame rule in 8-2 might be possible afterall?

andrewg

2014-07-07 03:11:58 pm

and happylee, thank you for your efforts! Definitely unexpected results there.

HappyLee

2014-07-07 08:06:22 pm

Quote from andrewg:

and happylee, thank you for your efforts! Definitely unexpected results there.

Anytime. I think 4x21 frames would be lost for not using flagpole glitch in 1-1, 4-1, 8-1, 8-3, and 21 frames would be lost in 8-2 (as the perfect bullet is almost impossible to get without quick acceleration). Not sure about rest of the stages. Smiley

Blubbler

2014-08-31 10:56:09 am

Way to avoid the frame-perfect jump over the Goombas in 8-1 found in an old video: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm8657119
Do a pipe jump to avoid stomping any Goombas, then stomp the first and third Koopas in the line of 3 Koopas just before where the frame-perfect jump would be, and one of them will despawn.

Quote from HappyLee:

and 21 frames would be lost in 8-2 (as the perfect bullet is almost impossible to get without quick acceleration)

What do you mean by that? In your TAS it looks like the bullet shoots immediately. I don't see how that would be possible at all without a backwards jump start.

Blubbler

Edit history:

Blubbler: 2014-09-30 04:12:12 pm

2014-09-30 04:00:32 pm

4-2 wallclip non-TAS:

I don't know what to think about this trick. First off, getting another framerule is impossible this way, no 4:56 hype. When I first started testing it, I had my hopes high that it could be an alternative to the 2-jump wrong warp, but the more I try doing it the more I think it's useless. The video is in the 3-jump WW framerule. I had better unrecorded ones that also didn't reach the 2-jump WW. You have a pretty small room of error here. But when I look at the actual inputs (2-frame-jump, starting holding left when touching the wall, jumping 2 times after hitting the ground, switching from left to right again) all of them have at least a 2-frame-window, so I feel like it should be possible to get it often enough, but it feels so impossible in practice...

Also I had this happen in Air for some reason, I did nothing unusual:

EDIT: savestate

4-2 wallclip non-TAS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsJNgDAK6vc
I don't know what to think about this trick. First off, getting another framerule is impossible this way, no 4:56 hype. When I first started testing it, I had my hopes high that it could be an alternative to the 2-jump wrong warp, but the more I try doing it the more I think it's useless. The video is in the 3-jump WW framerule. I had better unrecorded ones that also didn't reach the 2-jump WW. You have a pretty small room of error here. But when I look at the actual inputs (2-frame-jump, starting holding left when touching the wall, jumping 2 times after hitting the ground, switching from left to right again) all of them have at least a 2-frame-window, so I feel like it should be possible to get it often enough, but it feels so impossible in practice...

Also I had this happen in Air for some reason, I did nothing unusual:
[img]https://i.imgur.com/bMscdfc.png[/img]
EDIT: [url=http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=80670537425177979266]savestate[/url]

Blubbler

Edit history:

Blubbler: 2014-11-15 08:17:48 am

Blubbler: 2014-11-15 08:00:01 am

2014-11-15 06:56:18 am

darbian becomes the 4th player to get 4:58 with 4:58.38:
http://www.twitch.tv/darbian/c/5498914
He's improving at a very fast pace, I wouldn't be surprised if he got 4:57 or even WR soon.
EDIT: With the Bowser RNG duplication method I get 4:58.37 as his time, which means it'd have beaten my run by a frame with the bullet bill glitch and that he missed Kosmic's time of 4:58.35 by a frame.

darbian

2014-11-15 10:19:35 am

Thanks for taking a look at the run Blubbler, looks like the timing that jeffrosledger and nickj109 used from the twitch FLV file was reasonably accurate after all (4:58.38). I'll display the time as 4:58.37 since you reached it through a more accurate method. After this run I had 5 or 6 8-2s where the bill shot WAY late (I managed to get the BBG one time but it was late enough to get 6 fireworks). Since I've started waiting at the title screen I've only attempted the BBG with a "good" shot once or twice, but I have definitely had better Bowsers like you noted.