SMRPG

2010-02-20 04:35:20 pm

that Metroidvania guy

yea there's no doubt that my runs up to this point have sucked compared to what they could be, moooh.
i wouldn't call it discouraging that i could've gotten a sub-4 run even with all that screwing around, but rather encouraging because my self-expectation for this game has sky-rocketed recently.

i wouldn't have even imagined getting a sub-4 run when i was practicing for the marathon, but now it seems like any run i actually decide to complete with any degree of seriousness will be guaranteed sub-4. now it's just a matter of executing well throughout and getting that breakthrough run that just demolishes all the times i've had to this point. it'll happen sooner or later.

speaking of which, gonna take another shot at that right now:
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/romscout-live

if i get the attack scarf on johnny but not the super suit, i'm just going to finish him off quickly and then take a few super suit attempts on the geckos in land's end since i'm clearly better at jumping on them. this is for the sake of just getting a super suit run done, and after that step is complete i'll work on optimizing it and trying to do the 100 jumps on johnny.

yea there's no doubt that my runs up to this point have sucked compared to what they could be, moooh.
i wouldn't call it discouraging that i could've gotten a sub-4 run even with all that screwing around, but rather encouraging because my self-expectation for this game has sky-rocketed recently.

i wouldn't have even imagined getting a sub-4 run when i was practicing for the marathon, but now it seems like any run i actually decide to complete with any degree of seriousness will be guaranteed sub-4. now it's just a matter of executing well throughout and getting that breakthrough run that just demolishes all the times i've had to this point. it'll happen sooner or later.

speaking of which, gonna take another shot at that right now:
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/romscout-live

if i get the attack scarf on johnny but not the super suit, i'm just going to finish him off quickly and then take a few super suit attempts on the geckos in land's end since i'm clearly better at jumping on them. this is for the sake of just getting a super suit run done, and after that step is complete i'll work on optimizing it and trying to do the 100 jumps on johnny.

spook

2010-02-20 04:40:46 pm

Yes, a ninja riding a tiger.

NICE. I was just watching your marathon run, about halfway through. Guess I'll do a split screen. Grin

ShinerCCC

2010-02-21 09:10:47 am

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

Would it help if I made, say, a ZSNES savestate for the fight vs Johnny, so you can practice Super Jumping him on the first turn? Does that do enough damage to kill him instantly, then you can mass-damage his Bandana Blues?

romscout

2010-02-21 06:17:35 pm

that Metroidvania guy

Nah, I got the confidence back to do super jumps on Johnny. It's a matter of the state of mind I'm in at the time. I discussed with fisherrob (Mickey_Mage) and a few of the other regulars some things to change when I run this next (might do it pretty soon here), because when it was late at night and I was completely calm (half-asleep, even), I had like 4ish attempts on Johnny of 70+ jumps and consistently got 40+ on him. That may not be 100, but getting to 100 at random in a run now is a lot more likely than it ever was before. I'll be doing a few things differently setup-wise with how I approach the next run, and I should be a lot more relaxed throughout.

Also, I had a TON of fun breaking the living hell out of the game just by finding glitches and running with them... most people weren't around for this. I theorized a way to skip the Hammer Bros, and it would've worked except that the cutscene boundaries apparently were put at the edge of the map (leading to Mushroom Kingdom) as well as in front of the Hammer Bro. It was heartbreaking to find out this was impossible to do, but at least I can jump on top of the Hammer Bro sprite on console whenever I want now, it seems. :p I can also do funny tricks with bellhop Mario that would surprise some people. Tons of fun.

So yea, that aside, last run was the "black widow run", or I guess you could call it the "romscout is scared shitless of spiders" run. Including the spider fiasco that wasted like 5ish minutes, the run finished at like 3:58:xx. Not much to say, had some hilariously bad luck early and like always this game managed to keep it piling on after one thing went bad. Kinda funny. I figured out something that should be a minor (but cool) time saver in Barrel Volcano, using an enemy to boost onto an upper layer of the map and skipping an entire wind-around room. This is really only a time saver if you can run away from the battle in one of the first 3 commands, but usually you should be able to. You can watch recordings of this on my Ustream page if you want, but I'm not going to bother linking to them. Possibly my "best" run so far, only because of the extra incidents attached, but nothing notable in the actual run.

I won't be able to do many attempts this week because of family circumstances, but I will probably be trying one within an hour or two here so keep an eye out. I'll announce when I start in the streaming thread in SDA Discussion.

Also, bonus stuff after the next run will probably be more glitching and messing around with trying to find new glitches. I'll definitely make sure to show off the ones I found yesterday for those who missed it.

Nah, I got the confidence back to do super jumps on Johnny. It's a matter of the state of mind I'm in at the time. I discussed with fisherrob (Mickey_Mage) and a few of the other regulars some things to change when I run this next (might do it pretty soon here), because when it was late at night and I was completely calm (half-asleep, even), I had like 4ish attempts on Johnny of 70+ jumps and consistently got 40+ on him. That may not be 100, but getting to 100 at random in a run now is a lot more likely than it ever was before. I'll be doing a few things differently setup-wise with how I approach the next run, and I should be a lot more relaxed throughout.

Also, I had a TON of fun breaking the living hell out of the game just by finding glitches and running with them... most people weren't around for this. I theorized a way to skip the Hammer Bros, and it would've worked except that the cutscene boundaries apparently were put at the edge of the map (leading to Mushroom Kingdom) as well as in front of the Hammer Bro. It was heartbreaking to find out this was impossible to do, but at least I can jump on top of the Hammer Bro sprite on console whenever I want now, it seems. :p I can also do funny tricks with bellhop Mario that would surprise some people. Tons of fun.

So yea, that aside, last run was the "black widow run", or I guess you could call it the "romscout is scared shitless of spiders" run. Including the spider fiasco that wasted like 5ish minutes, the run finished at like 3:58:xx. Not much to say, had some hilariously bad luck early and like always this game managed to keep it piling on after one thing went bad. Kinda funny. I figured out something that should be a minor (but cool) time saver in Barrel Volcano, using an enemy to boost onto an upper layer of the map and skipping an entire wind-around room. This is really only a time saver if you can run away from the battle in one of the first 3 commands, but usually you should be able to. You can watch recordings of this on my Ustream page if you want, but I'm not going to bother linking to them. Possibly my "best" run so far, only because of the extra incidents attached, but nothing notable in the actual run.

I won't be able to do many attempts this week because of family circumstances, but I will probably be trying one within an hour or two here so keep an eye out. I'll announce when I start in the streaming thread in SDA Discussion.

Also, bonus stuff after the next run will probably be more glitching and messing around with trying to find new glitches. I'll definitely make sure to show off the ones I found yesterday for those who missed it.

Blackbird

2010-02-21 08:58:15 pm

I don't really know anything about your personal life, but be sure to get lots of sleep and eat well, too. If you've got a sound body, you'll have a clear mind and you'll be able to play great. That will help you relax, too.

moooh

2010-02-22 03:16:51 am

Exoray

Rom fell asleep while practicing super jumps on Johnny. People in the chat are debating whether or not to call him and wake him up Cheesy

romscout

2010-02-22 08:15:01 am

that Metroidvania guy

yea that was silly, my bad

so, about the last run... I think I went on a tangent about it during the credits because I wasn't happy lol

Time was 3:48:xx. This was shocking to me because I thought it went much faster.

Major time wasted:
-I missed the Mack skip. Cry

-Bowyer (surprise!). He killed Mario way too often, put Geno to sleep twice in a row (bye bye Able Juices), and locked the Y button 3 times in a row. Yes, 3 times in a row. I didn't even know it was possible. This forced me to stop using Jump with Mario also because he didn't get many attempts with it and it was too weak to keep using.
-Knife Guy + Grate Guy. I decided to go back with Fearless Pin on Bowser because I wanted to risk status effects from Grate Guy in exchange for more attack power. Grate Guy won. I'm pretty set on equipping Wake Up Pin now. Funny thing about this battle: Grate Guy put Mario and Bowser to sleep, and since I had no Able Juice I couldn't do anything about it. I decided to continue attacking with Geno. 2 Meteor Blasts later, Mario was dead while Bowser and Geno were very low on HP (with the king koopa still snoozing, mind you). In desperation, I used a Rock Candy and freebie'd it. Grate Guy died, and I was able to continue the run.
-Wasted several minutes on Super Jump attempts. Took every opportunity possible against Johnny, and my best was only 66. I then took about 2 minutes in Land's End trying on Geckos.
-Like 3 of 4 falls on the Sky Troopas. I need to stop doing that.
-Got both battle rooms in Bowser's Keep. Surprise. I think it's inevitable this happens to me in runs now.
-Bad luck with the Lazy Shell damage randomizer. It was on the low end of the scale VERY often in this run, and this really hurt late in the game, especially on the final Factory stretch where I was having bad luck from enemies anyway. Examples being I missed the Yarid #2 quick kill and the opening Factory (post-Domino/Cloaker part) miniboss quick kill.
-Worst CountDown fight since the new strategy was implemented. Turned Mario into a scarecrow at the start (Jumped for less damage than Lazy Shell does), Fear Rouletted Mallow on the first turn after the Red Essence wore off, and it was easy to tell this was taking too long.

I said this in the stream, but I don't think I'm going to settle on Attack Scarf runs anymore. If I don't get Super Suit sealed by the time I get through the Geckos on Land's End, I can't finish the run because there's no point in doing a run that can be done significantly faster if I could just execute timing better.

Despite being a bad run, there were still some cool highlights:
-I think these were the smoothest menus I've had in a run so far.
-Awesome Bundt fight. No deaths that mattered (I think Geno died at the end but Mario jumped to end the battle anyway).
-Nice MegaSmilax fight. Nice Valentina fight. Not many random battle encounters in Nimbus Land and the couple I did get into I got away from fast.
-Ridiculous Axem Rangers fight. That Rock Candy from Booster's Pass that I freebie'd against Knife Guy + Grate Guy was freebie'd in this battle every time it was used. Turned out to be like 4 times I think. So the whole group died very fast, and Mario was boosted and had full HP going into the 2nd phase. I should remember next time if something like this happens that Mario can easily withstand 2 Breaker Beams even with just Attack Scarf in this situation. That means he can still take out the machine very fast.
-Magikoopa, Boomer, and Exor all went smoothly and I was very fast with decisions in comparison to most other runs.
-Did very good at freebie'ing attack items (Rock Candy/Fright Bomb mainly) on Smithy but he didn't give a GREAT head draw and the randomizer of the Lazy Shell was still being stupid so it turned out to not be a great fight after all.

So even though this run was not very good time-wise, I can accept that a lot of it can be attributed to having the worst luck I've ever had in the early game (worse than the Rane file) and wasting a lot of time trying to get the Super Suit. I feel that I played well and reacted to bad luck a lot better this time in comparison to other runs. I had to improvise a lot more than I'd like and I did some pretty clutch stuff when forced to make split-second decisions I wasn't used to making. I also held my composure a lot better the whole run (only exception being a bit of raging when Bowyer went nuts on me) and felt focused and calm for most of it.

So yea, this is the first run in a while that I feel I played very well in. In fact, it's the first run since my submitted 3:51:xx that I felt really good about "holding up my end of the bargain" and pretty much all the lost time just being the game's nonstop dickishness to me. So I've improved, even if I haven't had the breakthrough run that just blows all the other previous attempts away yet. Because I won't settle for anything less than a Super Suit run now, I don't think that's too far off.

Maybe some attempts at running SMRPG tonight (Monday night), but maybe not. After that, no attempts until Friday and Saturday. Thanks to everyone who's stuck around for these runs. I will link to UStream recordings of this run later. I gotta go to work now. This is my best run yet, although an unlucky one to say the least.

yea that was silly, my bad

so, about the last run... I think I went on a tangent about it during the credits because I wasn't happy lol

Time was 3:48:xx. This was shocking to me because I thought it went much faster.

Major time wasted:
-I missed the Mack skip.  :'(
-Bowyer (surprise!). He killed Mario way too often, put Geno to sleep twice in a row (bye bye Able Juices), and locked the Y button 3 times in a row. Yes, 3 times in a row. I didn't even know it was possible. This forced me to stop using Jump with Mario also because he didn't get many attempts with it and it was too weak to keep using.
-Knife Guy + Grate Guy. I decided to go back with Fearless Pin on Bowser because I wanted to risk status effects from Grate Guy in exchange for more attack power. Grate Guy won. I'm pretty set on equipping Wake Up Pin now. Funny thing about this battle: Grate Guy put Mario and Bowser to sleep, and since I had no Able Juice I couldn't do anything about it. I decided to continue attacking with Geno. 2 Meteor Blasts later, Mario was dead while Bowser and Geno were very low on HP (with the king koopa still snoozing, mind you). In desperation, I used a Rock Candy and freebie'd it. Grate Guy died, and I was able to continue the run.
-Wasted several minutes on Super Jump attempts. Took every opportunity possible against Johnny, and my best was only 66. I then took about 2 minutes in Land's End trying on Geckos.
-Like 3 of 4 falls on the Sky Troopas. I need to stop doing that.
-Got both battle rooms in Bowser's Keep. Surprise. I think it's inevitable this happens to me in runs now.
-Bad luck with the Lazy Shell damage randomizer. It was on the low end of the scale VERY often in this run, and this really hurt late in the game, especially on the final Factory stretch where I was having bad luck from enemies anyway. Examples being I missed the Yarid #2 quick kill and the opening Factory (post-Domino/Cloaker part) miniboss quick kill.
-Worst CountDown fight since the new strategy was implemented. Turned Mario into a scarecrow at the start (Jumped for less damage than Lazy Shell does), Fear Rouletted Mallow on the first turn after the Red Essence wore off, and it was easy to tell this was taking too long.

I said this in the stream, but I don't think I'm going to settle on Attack Scarf runs anymore. If I don't get Super Suit sealed by the time I get through the Geckos on Land's End, I can't finish the run because there's no point in doing a run that can be done significantly faster if I could just execute timing better.

Despite being a bad run, there were still some cool highlights:
-I think these were the smoothest menus I've had in a run so far.
-Awesome Bundt fight. No deaths that mattered (I think Geno died at the end but Mario jumped to end the battle anyway).
-Nice MegaSmilax fight. Nice Valentina fight. Not many random battle encounters in Nimbus Land and the couple I did get into I got away from fast.
-Ridiculous Axem Rangers fight. That Rock Candy from Booster's Pass that I freebie'd against Knife Guy + Grate Guy was freebie'd in this battle every time it was used. Turned out to be like 4 times I think. So the whole group died very fast, and Mario was boosted and had full HP going into the 2nd phase. I should remember next time if something like this happens that Mario can easily withstand 2 Breaker Beams even with just Attack Scarf in this situation. That means he can still take out the machine very fast.
-Magikoopa, Boomer, and Exor all went smoothly and I was very fast with decisions in comparison to most other runs.
-Did very good at freebie'ing attack items (Rock Candy/Fright Bomb mainly) on Smithy but he didn't give a GREAT head draw and the randomizer of the Lazy Shell was still being stupid so it turned out to not be a great fight after all.

So even though this run was not very good time-wise, I can accept that a lot of it can be attributed to having the worst luck I've ever had in the early game (worse than the Rane file) and wasting a lot of time trying to get the Super Suit. I feel that I played well and reacted to bad luck a lot better this time in comparison to other runs. I had to improvise a lot more than I'd like and I did some pretty clutch stuff when forced to make split-second decisions I wasn't used to making. I also held my composure a lot better the whole run (only exception being a bit of raging when Bowyer went nuts on me) and felt focused and calm for most of it.

So yea, this is the first run in a while that I feel I played very well in. In fact, it's the first run since my submitted 3:51:xx that I felt really good about "holding up my end of the bargain" and pretty much all the lost time just being the game's nonstop dickishness to me. So I've improved, even if I haven't had the breakthrough run that just blows all the other previous attempts away yet. Because I won't settle for anything less than a Super Suit run now, I don't think that's too far off.

Maybe some attempts at running SMRPG tonight (Monday night), but maybe not. After that, no attempts until Friday and Saturday. Thanks to everyone who's stuck around for these runs. I will link to UStream recordings of this run later. I gotta go to work now. This is my best run yet, although an unlucky one to say the least.

Blackbird

2010-02-22 09:49:42 am

I think this is a victory, if a minor one. Not only are you learning a little bit more about time savers every day, but you've also learned a lot about the ways the run can fail. With that in mind, you can avoid most of the major pitfalls.

romscout

2010-02-22 06:53:14 pm

that Metroidvania guy

Not sure if I'm really feeling it for another attempt tonight. Might be too tired.

Also I need to wait for my dad to give up the TV anyway. :p Random thought that entered my head: Mario using and being forced to freebie Rock Candy on 2nd turn of Knife Guy + Grate Guy fight to fight against luck... plus it's faster and Grate Guy would die before they even stack up, with Knife Guy following shortly after since he takes 300 from a Rock Candy when in fear. Wake Up Pin on Bowser still to even further reduce the effects of luck (worst luck being Grate Guy's sleep spell). If I fail to freebie it, I'd reset. Yes, it's an hour into the run. Yes, I'd have to redo Bowyer regardless of the luck he gave me. No, I do not freebie Rock Candy 100% of the time, but ever since I started running this game way too much I sometimes feel like I can. This would be the only time I use the Rock Candy before the Axem Rangers.

Thoughts? I know it's probably just a silly thought that came with being tired, but I dislike luck and this would be an almost surefire way to prevent it assuming I'm almost surefire on freebie'ing Rock Candy. Plus, this one freebie will probably account for about 1.5% of the resets that failing to get the Super Suit will anyway.

Speaking of disliking luck, I think I might run up to pre-Bowyer save and mess around with all the equipment I have on hand at that point and see if I can manage anything with fighting luck on the guy... for instance, one idea that entered my mind was "if he can manage to lock Y button 3 times in a row, why couldn't he lock A button twice in a row? Or maybe I can force him to lock X sometimes and see how this plays out." Dealing with 2/3 chance of Static E (my favorite spell in this fight since it just means I use a froggiedrink with Mallow) and 1/3 chance of Bolt (with another 1/3 chance of that targeting Mario who is the only guy that matters on that spell) sounds a lot more appealing than dealing with Gnight (2/3 chance of messing things up) and arrowing Mario to death. I dunno, might end up changing strategy on that, might not.

Not sure if I'm really feeling it for another attempt tonight. Might be too tired.

Also I need to wait for my dad to give up the TV anyway. :p Random thought that entered my head: Mario using and being forced to freebie Rock Candy on 2nd turn of Knife Guy + Grate Guy fight to fight against luck... plus it's faster and Grate Guy would die before they even stack up, with Knife Guy following shortly after since he takes 300 from a Rock Candy when in fear. Wake Up Pin on Bowser still to even further reduce the effects of luck (worst luck being Grate Guy's sleep spell). If I fail to freebie it, I'd reset. Yes, it's an hour into the run. Yes, I'd have to redo Bowyer regardless of the luck he gave me. No, I do not freebie Rock Candy 100% of the time, but ever since I started running this game way too much I sometimes feel like I can. This would be the only time I use the Rock Candy before the Axem Rangers.

Thoughts? I know it's probably just a silly thought that came with being tired, but I dislike luck and this would be an almost surefire way to prevent it assuming I'm almost surefire on freebie'ing Rock Candy. Plus, this one freebie will probably account for about 1.5% of the resets that failing to get the Super Suit will anyway.

Speaking of disliking luck, I think I might run up to pre-Bowyer save and mess around with all the equipment I have on hand at that point and see if I can manage anything with fighting luck on the guy... for instance, one idea that entered my mind was "if he can manage to lock Y button 3 times in a row, why couldn't he lock A button twice in a row? Or maybe I can force him to lock X sometimes and see how this plays out." Dealing with 2/3 chance of Static E (my favorite spell in this fight since it just means I use a froggiedrink with Mallow) and 1/3 chance of Bolt (with another 1/3 chance of that targeting Mario who is the only guy that matters on that spell) sounds a lot more appealing than dealing with Gnight (2/3 chance of messing things up) and arrowing Mario to death. I dunno, might end up changing strategy on that, might not.

tjp7154

2010-02-22 08:12:19 pm

#Casual

We don't know if it's 1/3 chance of hitting Mario. The AI might specifically target Mario, or the character with less health, or whatever...

I don't know about relying on that Rock Candy. Maybe you can have a contingency plan just in case you don't freebie the Rock Candy?

romscout

2010-02-22 08:23:36 pm

that Metroidvania guy

Quote from tjp7154:

We don't know if it's 1/3 chance of hitting Mario. The AI might specifically target Mario, or the character with less health, or whatever...

I don't know about relying on that Rock Candy. Maybe you can have a contingency plan just in case you don't freebie the Rock Candy?

well theoretically, with the Super Suit, Mario can pretty much single handedly decimate the Axem Rangers anyway. Another thing I could try is Super Suit on Geno, Geno Blast them. It might work better than Rock Candy anyway. But these are things I'd need to test. I think I'll just stick with my usual plan for now and see when we get there.

also i'm more awake now, can mess with SMRPG or at least get some super jumping practice in

also based on how the fight started with bowyer the last 3 times, bolt target seems to be pretty random... it's just that long stretch where it was nothing but mario that had me wondering

Blackbird

2010-02-22 08:31:19 pm

What determines when you get a free item?

AND4H

2010-02-22 08:40:54 pm

Legendary Dragoon

Quote from romscout:

well theoretically, with the Super Suit, Mario can pretty much single handedly decimate the Axem Rangers anyway.

Try single-handedly decimate the ENTIRE GAME! Grin

Rakuen

2010-02-22 09:26:41 pm

Weegee Time

Quote from Blackbird:

What determines when you get a free item?

There's a base random chance I believe, but just like timed attacks and defenses, if you hit the X button at the right time you'll get a guaranteed freebie. Timing is dependent upon the item. For example, I believe Rock Candy's timing is between the end of the star animation and the damage numbers appearing.

romscout

2010-02-23 01:36:31 am

that Metroidvania guy

Quote from Rakuen:

For example, I believe Rock Candy's timing is between the end of the star animation and the damage numbers appearing.

Way off. For pretty much every item, ideally you want to hit right as the cloud finishes poofing, although you're correct in saying the items have slightly different timing (just that they are much closer to each other than like "end of the full animation vs. start of the animation"). Also, I don't believe you can ever get full 100% odds of freebie (unless it's something stupid like an exact frame), but you can significantly raise the odds. Timing also slightly changes on the Smithy battle for whatever reason.

Either way, I shouldn't ever completely count on freebie'ing an item when I only have one of it. I used to count on freebie'ing Fire Bombs, but that was because I started with 5 of them (now I start with 6 with better buying/selling in Seaside so I don't even need to freebie them before Dodo). You may notice whenever I go into Smithy that I have a nice stock of Fright Bombs left to use, and that's because I count on freebie'ing them in the Yaridovich battle and I'm pretty good at it.

So yea I think I've decided to live with Knife + Grate luck. I'd go insane way too fast if I was resetting for failing to freebie. Also, got 94 jumps on Johnny in practice earlier tonight. Got several attempts of 80+ and I think I'm getting the hang of how to visually gauge the jump to get it right on Johnny... problem is, I don't sustain perfect timing for 100 jumps. :p Also, I still get funny failures in there like sub-30 sometimes. It's cute.

I really think I've gotten over my nervousness on Johnny though, if last run was any indicator.

[quote="Rakuen"]
For example, I believe Rock Candy's timing is between the end of the star animation and the damage numbers appearing.
[/quote]
Way off. For pretty much every item, ideally you want to hit right as the cloud finishes poofing, although you're correct in saying the items have slightly different timing (just that they are much closer to each other than like "end of the full animation vs. start of the animation"). Also, I don't believe you can ever get full 100% odds of freebie (unless it's something stupid like an exact frame), but you can significantly raise the odds. Timing also slightly changes on the Smithy battle for whatever reason.

Either way, I shouldn't ever completely count on freebie'ing an item when I only have one of it. I used to count on freebie'ing Fire Bombs, but that was because I started with 5 of them (now I start with 6 with better buying/selling in Seaside so I don't even need to freebie them before Dodo). You may notice whenever I go into Smithy that I have a nice stock of Fright Bombs left to use, and that's because I count on freebie'ing them in the Yaridovich battle and I'm pretty good at it.

So yea I think I've decided to live with Knife + Grate luck. I'd go insane way too fast if I was resetting for failing to freebie. Also, got 94 jumps on Johnny in practice earlier tonight. Got several attempts of 80+ and I think I'm getting the hang of how to visually gauge the jump to get it right on Johnny... problem is, I don't sustain perfect timing for 100 jumps. :p Also, I still get funny failures in there like sub-30 sometimes. It's cute.

I really think I've gotten over my nervousness on Johnny though, if last run was any indicator.

Darkwing Duck

2010-02-23 02:19:26 am

Highly Evolved

Wow, that is impressive improvement. I've really only seen mostly sub 30 jumps with the occasional above 30 and once or twice above fifty. Maybe I'm just bad luck when I'm watching. I realistically didn't expect this much of a jump (hah!) this quickly.

romscout

2010-02-23 03:40:55 am

that Metroidvania guy

oh don't worry, with the magic of streaming, I'll probably find some way to struggle past 30 before pulling off a big streak or something stupid like that

Floogal

Edit history:

Floogal: 2010-02-23 04:51:43 am

2010-02-23 03:48:28 am

Quote from romscout:

-Bowyer (surprise!). He killed Mario way too often, put Geno to sleep twice in a row (bye bye Able Juices), and locked the Y button 3 times in a row. Yes, 3 times in a row. I didn't even know it was possible.

Of course it's possible. Bowyer's button-locking is completely deterministic, so you can have him lock whichever button you want.

Note that the following is simply a translation of hacked & documented game code. ~~Apparently, the site that hosted this information has recently died, so I can email you the saved web pages if you want.~~

Bowyer has a "button-pool" that he adds points to whenever he is hit by an attack. Physicals add 4 points, specials add 2, and offensive items add 1. Every second round, Bowyer will lock a button (unlocking any others), choosing one based on the amount of points in his pool. The locked button also affects his attacking AI. After locking a button, his pool empties.

Points in pool:
- 0 to 5: lock X, do no attack this round, attack with blockable arrow shot (50%) / Lightning Orb (33%) / Bolt (17%) next round
- 6 to 15: lock Y, attack with blockable arrow shot (66%) / G'night (33%) this round and the next
- 16 to 24: lock A, attack with Static E! (66%) / Bolt (33%) this round and the next

Having not watched your runs yet, my suggestion is to keep button Y locked, as this means you can theoretically take no damage during the fight by perfectly blocking his arrow shots. In order to keep in the 6 to 15 point range, this limits you to a maximum of 3 physical attacks every two rounds (3 offensive items can also be used), which may not be practical for speed, but is great for consistency & survivability (providing you can block his attacks well).

Interestingly, Machine Made Bowyer's button locking is completely random. And both versions, if affected by a "Carbo Cookie" (removed item?), will enable all actions again.

A quick glance at Smithy's complicated AI makes it seem that he has a fixed head-cycle, but that it alters every time he takes 2000 HP. I'll look into it a bit more.

EDIT: nevermind, get the hacking information at this link.

[quote="romscout"]-Bowyer (surprise!). He killed Mario way too often, put Geno to sleep twice in a row (bye bye Able Juices), and locked the Y button 3 times in a row. Yes, 3 times in a row. I didn't even know it was possible.[/quote]Of course it's possible.  Bowyer's button-locking is completely deterministic, so you can have him lock whichever button you want.

Note that the following is simply a translation of hacked & documented game code.  [s]Apparently, the site that hosted this information has recently died, so I can email you the saved web pages if you want.[/s]

Bowyer has a "button-pool" that he adds points to whenever he is hit by an attack.  Physicals add 4 points, specials add 2, and offensive items add 1.  Every second round, Bowyer will lock a button (unlocking any others), choosing one based on the amount of points in his pool.  The locked button also affects his attacking AI.  After locking a button, his pool empties.

Points in pool:
- 0 to 5: lock X, do no attack this round, attack with blockable arrow shot (50%) / Lightning Orb (33%) / Bolt (17%) next round
- 6 to 15: lock Y, attack with blockable arrow shot (66%) / G'night (33%) this round and the next
- 16 to 24: lock A, attack with Static E! (66%) / Bolt (33%) this round and the next

Having not watched your runs yet, my suggestion is to keep button Y locked, as this means you can theoretically take no damage during the fight by perfectly blocking his arrow shots.  In order to keep in the 6 to 15 point range, this limits you to a maximum of 3 physical attacks every two rounds (3 offensive items can also be used), which may not be practical for speed, but is great for consistency & survivability (providing you can block his attacks well).

Interestingly, Machine Made Bowyer's button locking is completely random.  And both versions, if affected by a "Carbo Cookie" (removed item?), will enable all actions again.

A quick glance at Smithy's complicated AI makes it seem that he has a fixed head-cycle, but that it alters every time he takes 2000 HP.  I'll look into it a bit more.

EDIT: nevermind, get the hacking information at [url=http://www.romhacking.net/docs/352/]this link[/url].

AND4H

2010-02-23 07:34:12 am

Legendary Dragoon

Quote from Floogal:

Wall of Text

That's... incredibly interesting. I never noticed that. That's why the TAS kills off Mario and Mallow early on! So Geno gets 2 turns of physical attacks pushing him to lock Y every single time! That is madness! Shocked

Rakuen

2010-02-23 09:38:40 am

Weegee Time

Quote from romscout:

Also, I don't believe you can ever get full 100% odds of freebie (unless it's something stupid like an exact frame), but you can significantly raise the odds. Timing also slightly changes on the Smithy battle for whatever reason.

So the RNG can basically say, "Screw you, you can't have your freebie"? I hate when games do that. -_-

Blackbird

2010-02-23 11:34:13 am

Yeah, I don't think I'd gamble an hour of gameplay on the freebie attempt, especially when it seems uncertain and the Super Suit jumps are going to end a lot of potential runs already.

Mickey_Mage

2010-02-23 11:36:56 am

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

Quote from romscout:

So yea I think I've decided to live with Knife + Grate luck. I'd go insane way too fast if I was resetting for failing to freebie. Also, got 94 jumps on Johnny in practice earlier tonight. Got several attempts of 80+ and I think I'm getting the hang of how to visually gauge the jump to get it right on Johnny... problem is, I don't sustain perfect timing for 100 jumps. :p Also, I still get funny failures in there like sub-30 sometimes. It's cute.

Yeah, that's the problem with practicing for speedruns sometimes, haha. This was done offscreen, too, so we didn't get to witness it. :p Oh well (unless I missed something?).

If you ever had the urge to just record a full run attempt offline and get the 100 jumps, I'm sure you'd do pretty well, but I think you're just as used to running with people watching as you are without, right?

Nitrodon

2010-02-23 11:39:38 am

Either I'm reading the Smithy AI wrong, or the head cycle it mentions has no relation with what actually happens.

Also, it seems that the chest and box heads are slower than Smithy's body, and the rest of the heads are faster. This is why those heads appear to "store" a turn for later.

Mickey_Mage

2010-02-23 11:40:53 am

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

Chest head stores a turn, too?

Nitrodon

2010-02-23 12:34:15 pm

Beats me, but that's what the numbers seem to suggest at least.