Secret of Mana

2014-03-15 08:28:34 pm

INTJ

Simply don't forget, that you need the seeds to level up the magic to an extent. I don't know which seeds you would skip, but I think you will take the wind seed

Crow!

2014-03-15 08:29:39 pm

What's that gemma?

The two seeds in question are the Light and Dark seeds; the other ones are either plot required or essential for leveling.

Crow!

Edit history:

Crow!: 2014-03-15 10:52:55 pm

2014-03-15 10:51:18 pm

What's that gemma?

Bad news. I think I cannot continue streaming and recording simultaneously, at least not in the manner I have been doing. There are sections in my most recent recordings where many frames are dropped in a row and the audio temporarily slows down. So, until I can find a more computationally efficient solution for recording in a high enough quality for SDA submissions while also broadcasting in a lower quality, I will have to go back to separating those two tasks.

On the plus side, this will mean I can broadcast deinterlaced and with synched audio again.

StingerPA

2014-03-15 11:59:00 pm

That's unfortunate. Is it an issue with not having a strong enough PC to handle both tasks at the same time?

Crow!

2014-03-16 09:26:32 am

What's that gemma?

Yeah. I'm using a laptop, which is pretty snazzy as far as laptops go (pretty much the best money could buy a couple years ago), but it's still a laptop.

I'm going to try streaming today while telling my computer in as many ways as possible to minimize the CPU impact of the stream. This will likely degrade my stream quality, but in principle the recording should be perfect. If the stream suffers to much, or if the recording gets screwed up regardless I'll go back to pre-recording.

StingerPA

Edit history:

StingerPA: 2014-03-17 12:39:01 am

2014-03-17 12:38:50 am

Just wanted to congratulate Crow on destroying my undeserving record with a 3:08:12. Decent all the way through with a solid ending for the last hour. I may not be returning to 1p2c as soon as I expected. Wink

Yagamoth

2014-03-17 03:11:53 am

INTJ

Wow, that's amazing oô.. Why did I have to leave that early yesterday?.. Actually it was today morning..

Crow!

Edit history:

Crow!: 2014-03-17 08:57:22 am

Crow!: 2014-03-17 08:56:41 am

Crow!: 2014-03-17 07:50:02 am

Crow!: 2014-03-17 07:48:49 am

Crow!: 2014-03-17 07:44:21 am

2014-03-17 07:40:18 am

What's that gemma?

For reference, here's my new record: http://www.twitch.tv/iicrowii/c/3900898

There's plenty of time to improve, both from things under my control and things not under my control. Fire Gigas went badly because I forgot to have control of the Boy at the start. Kilroy, Jabberwocky, and Blue Spike all had terrible RNG. Bad things happened in the Upper Lands and Matango cave, and getting from the Palace of Darkness to the Shadow X fight was very slow. Menus continue to need work throughout.

One routing change: by purchasing Unicorn Helms instead of Dragon Helms and one Flower Suit instead of one Battle Suit, I can avoid needing to sell an item at the final Neko. The Flower Suit can be equipped when the Girl is doing equipment trashing during the Wall Glitch. Also, I in the future will no longer skip the Girl's Chain Vest, as missing it allowed a Mushboom to score a 1 damage hit which knocked the Girl unconcious.

In other news, I may have figured out what has been causing my audio desynch and recording problems - even though the SNES outputs at ~60.1 fps, apparently EZCap returns data to the computer at the NTSC standard 59.94 fps. I had told VDub to record at 30.05 fps (to be doubled upon deinterlacing). VDub's preview therefore desynched at a rate of 0.27%, but can bend the recorded audio to synch up with the video regardless of the discrepancy for up to 10 frames. After an hour of recording I exceed that 10 frame limit and VDub freaks out on the recording as well.

For reference, here's my new record: http://www.twitch.tv/iicrowii/c/3900898

There's plenty of time to improve, both from things under my control and things not under my control.  Fire Gigas went badly because I forgot to have control of the Boy at the start.  Kilroy, Jabberwocky, and Blue Spike all had terrible RNG.  Bad things happened in the Upper Lands and Matango cave, and getting from the Palace of Darkness to the Shadow X fight was very slow.  Menus continue to need work throughout.

One routing change: by purchasing Unicorn Helms instead of Dragon Helms and one Flower Suit instead of one Battle Suit, I can avoid needing to sell an item at the final Neko.  The Flower Suit can be equipped when the Girl is doing equipment trashing during the Wall Glitch.  Also, I in the future will no longer skip the Girl's Chain Vest, as missing it allowed a Mushboom to score a 1 damage hit which knocked the Girl unconcious.

In other news, I may have figured out what has been causing my audio desynch and recording problems - even though the SNES outputs at ~60.1 fps, apparently EZCap returns data to the computer at the NTSC standard 59.94 fps.  I had told VDub to record at 30.05 fps (to be doubled upon deinterlacing).  VDub's preview therefore desynched at a rate of 0.27%, but can bend the recorded audio to synch up with the video regardless of the discrepancy for up to 10 frames. After an hour of recording I exceed that 10 frame limit and VDub freaks out on the recording as well.

StingerPA

Edit history:

StingerPA: 2014-03-17 05:39:21 pm

StingerPA: 2014-03-17 05:00:54 pm

2014-03-17 04:48:47 pm

Sorry Crow, but your record didn't stand too long. 3:07:10 is the new record. http://www.twitch.tv/stingerpa/c/3905998

Decent start even if it wasn't as good as my previous one. I still have a lot of time to save in segments like lime slime and watermelon. The mana fortress as a whole was pretty bad. There's a ton of time for me to gain on each boss, and I'm pretty unhappy with how much time I lost there.

Edit: Almost forgot the biggest error of the run. I messed up the 2nd walnut slot at Minotaur, so I went through the next 2 hours with only 1 walnut slot. Sloppy, but oh well. That'll be some spread out time gain for next time.

Crow!

Edit history:

Crow!: 2014-03-18 08:50:12 am

2014-03-18 08:49:43 am

What's that gemma?

I worked a bit on getting the whirlwind attack consistently on 1 controller for the 3x tonpole fight, and I think I've got it. My method is to try to pause at either the correct frame to obtain a whirlwind attack, or one too early.

- If I'm exactly on time, I set the boy's action grid to 0 then mash select.
- If I'm one frame too early, I use a Chocolate or Walnut on the boy, swap to him, hold B until the numbers appear on him, then let go.
- If I'm more than one frame too early, I have the option to either pause and unpause, or use a chocolate then hold for another few frames after the numbers disappear.

Stinger's method of just being good at pressing select at the correct time is ~5 seconds faster, but has a smaller window of opportunity tied to a rather large, hard to quantify time penalty for missing it.

Crow!

Edit history:

Crow!: 2014-03-18 10:29:53 am

Crow!: 2014-03-18 10:07:45 am

Crow!: 2014-03-18 10:04:05 am

Crow!: 2014-03-18 09:55:38 am

2014-03-18 09:51:57 am

What's that gemma?

In the Fire Palace, I think I've got one consistent way to do a Walk Through Walls for one controller. It seems to save ~7 seconds. Missing the trick once makes it break even, and missing it twice costs a lot of time. The setup is attached to this post.

- Enter the room with the Boy selected and walk him up to exactly the tile shown in the screenshot (any further can mess up the AI depending on the northern Robin Foot's RNG, any less outright won't work).
- Select the Girl and walk her to the spot shown, facing upward.
- Target the Robin Foot with the Boy. (Unless something went very wrong, he should already be on the relevant item ring).
- Mash B immediately. Being just a little late hurts.
- If he doesn't get through the wall, there should be a Dark Funk (the fire elemental cloud) coming soon. Try again by targeting that.
- If both the Robin Foot and the Dark Funk get too close to the Boy, you have failed, and trying to salvage the situation depends on RNG; you're better off leaving and either trying again or using the whip poles normally.

In the Fire Palace, I think I've got one consistent way to do a Walk Through Walls for one controller.  It seems to save ~7 seconds.  Missing the trick once makes it break even, and missing it twice costs a lot of time.  The setup is attached to this post.

- Enter the room with the Boy selected and walk him up to exactly the tile shown in the screenshot (any further can mess up the AI depending on the northern Robin Foot's RNG, any less outright won't work).
- Select the Girl and walk her to the spot shown, facing upward.
- Target the Robin Foot with the Boy. (Unless something went very wrong, he should already be on the relevant item ring).
- Mash B immediately.  Being just a little late hurts.
- If he doesn't get through the wall, there should be a Dark Funk (the fire elemental cloud) coming soon.  Try again by targeting that.
- If both the Robin Foot and the Dark Funk get too close to the Boy, you have failed, and trying to salvage the situation depends on RNG; you're better off leaving and either trying again or using the whip poles normally.

Attachment:

Secret of Mana (U)000.png

Crow!

Edit history:

Crow!: 2014-03-20 04:05:55 pm

Crow!: 2014-03-20 04:05:20 pm

Crow!: 2014-03-20 04:00:09 pm

Crow!: 2014-03-20 03:58:08 pm

Crow!: 2014-03-20 03:56:30 pm

Crow!: 2014-03-20 03:42:41 pm

Crow!: 2014-03-20 03:37:22 pm

Crow!: 2014-03-19 12:38:26 pm

Crow!: 2014-03-19 12:37:12 pm

Crow!: 2014-03-19 11:08:32 am

Crow!: 2014-03-18 06:52:59 pm

Crow!: 2014-03-18 09:57:19 am

2014-03-18 09:55:44 am

What's that gemma?

Not sure how this post wound up getting placed, and I can't seem to find a delete function on this forum.

So long as I have this post, I'll make use of it.

New strategy for Blue Spike: tell the AI doing the first hit to release his attack ASAP; 1 weak hit + 2 full hits will kill Blue Spike without him doing his fake death animation.

The WR is now 3:06:38. http://www.twitch.tv/iicrowii/c/3912608

In other news, my 3:18 run finally got frontpaged!

Another thought just came to me: provided I enter the Springbeak fight with a combination of Gnome level and MP that leads me to know for certain how many casts it will take to kill, the Girl could cast Stone Saber as the boss ends. Optimizing menus would call for the Boy to handle the items at the Pebblers and Springbeak. Magic Roping the Mana Seed would still be worth it since the Sprite's X menu should be on the Boy.

Scratch that, a far smarter option is to just cast Stone Saber at some point during the Pebbers fight.

Crow!

2014-03-20 04:06:02 pm

What's that gemma?

Yaga noted a while ago that the Mana Beast takes ~100 more damage per hit if affected by Acid Storm, for a difference of 3 hits if it's always under the effects. This didn't previously pay off because the debuff fades away after each cycle, and the Mana Beast walls itself. Slightly more recently, Stinger noted that spamming Dispel Magic is barely less time efficient than just doing WCG hits. So, let's put these two together:

- At the start of the fight, get an Acid Rain cast before Wall is established.
-- If the Mana Beast is coming from below, start casting when the mana beast's hair is ~70% visible
-- If the Mana Beast is coming from above, use "wiggle wiggle" strats - start casting when the tail wiggles away then returns back to its straighter orientation after having dipped behind your platform.
- Either way, get a hit with the Boy.
- Cast 2x Dispel as the Boy charges up his next hit, then hit with the Boy.
- Repeat, for a total of 4x Dispel casts. One more Dispel (or for that matter, ordinary spell) will clear the wall. Don't clear the wall yet.
- Go to the usual 2 character WCG strategy until the next cycle begins.
- When the next cycle begins, cast 1 Dispel and 1 Acid Rain, and score a hit with the Boy.
- Then do 2x Dispel, hit, 2x Dispel, hit, normal 2 character WCG.
- Restore the Sprite's MP. He'll be 2 MP short of what you want to do otherwise.
- Start the third cycle with 1 Dispel and 1 Acid Rain. Finish off the Mana Beast now; don't bother with Dispel.

This strategy consistently scores an early 3 cycle kill. It's hard to be sure since there's a lot of RNG in the fight, but compared to my WR, a test of this strategy was almost exactly 1 minute faster.

Oh, and while I'm on the subject, when making the Mana Sword permanent, cast Light Saber on all characters simultaneously. The Sprite is likely to benefit from the minor damage boost.

Yaga noted a while ago that the Mana Beast takes ~100 more damage per hit if affected by Acid Storm, for a difference of 3 hits if it's always under the effects.  This didn't previously pay off because the debuff fades away after each cycle, and the Mana Beast walls itself.  Slightly more recently, Stinger noted that spamming Dispel Magic is barely less time efficient than just doing WCG hits.  So, let's put these two together:

- At the start of the fight, get an Acid Rain cast before Wall is established.
-- If the Mana Beast is coming from below, start casting when the mana beast's hair is ~70% visible
-- If the Mana Beast is coming from above, use "wiggle wiggle" strats - start casting when the tail wiggles away then returns back to its straighter orientation after having dipped behind your platform.
- Either way, get a hit with the Boy.
- Cast 2x Dispel as the Boy charges up his next hit, then hit with the Boy.
- Repeat, for a total of 4x Dispel casts.  One more Dispel (or for that matter, ordinary spell) will clear the wall.  Don't clear the wall yet.
- Go to the usual 2 character WCG strategy until the next cycle begins.
- When the next cycle begins, cast 1 Dispel and 1 Acid Rain, and score a hit with the Boy.
- Then do 2x Dispel, hit, 2x Dispel, hit, normal 2 character WCG.
- Restore the Sprite's MP.  He'll be 2 MP short of what you want to do otherwise.
- Start the third cycle with 1 Dispel and 1 Acid Rain.  Finish off the Mana Beast now; don't bother with Dispel.

This strategy consistently scores an early 3 cycle kill.  It's hard to be sure since there's a lot of RNG in the fight, but compared to my WR, a test of this strategy was almost exactly 1 minute faster.

Oh, and while I'm on the subject, when making the Mana Sword permanent, cast Light Saber on all characters simultaneously.  The Sprite is likely to benefit from the minor damage boost.

StingerPA

2014-03-20 06:05:19 pm

Sounds good. I'll be doing some drilling over the next few days to finally learn proper strats, and I'll pick this strat up once I get to the end.

Crow!

2014-03-21 02:50:15 pm

What's that gemma?

The Mantis Ant has a blind spot. If you're the correct distance below him, he will swing at you (as opposed to using Acid Breath, which he will if you're too far away) even though you're not in range to be hit with his attacks. Meanwhile, your attacks can hit him just fine. This saves a tiny amount of time compared to getting hit and having to wait a moment for the hitstun to go away before you can swing.

He will walk down as the fight progresses, so you'll have to move downward as he does.

StingerPA

2014-03-21 03:37:23 pm

Yeah, I generally go for that blind spot, but you should always lean towards being in range since acid breath costs so much time.

Yagamoth

2014-03-24 02:33:16 am

INTJ

Oh... I totally forgot about acid rain.. I wonder whether I can make the Mana Beast a 1 cycle in 1p2c with that.. Although the debuff probably only lasts a few seconds (since Undine level 0) and the damage done would likely block out the swings by the Boy. Unlikely

Crow!

Edit history:

Crow!: 2014-03-24 08:12:09 am

Crow!: 2014-03-24 08:08:01 am

Crow!: 2014-03-24 08:01:57 am

2014-03-24 07:58:34 am

What's that gemma?

Assuming you don't "miss" with Acid Storm, the +64 damage from the Mana Seeds helps a lot with Acid Storm's duration. If my calculations are correct, it should last ~13 seconds. You could start Acid Storm immediately after the Boy's first hit, so that most of the animation is during the Boy's cooldown. You can stack damage vs the Mana Beast while the numbers from the previous hit are displaying, so you only have to wait for the duration of the animation. From what I can tell, each attack vs the Mana Beast takes you guys almost exactly 2 seconds of game time, so that would be 6 enhanced hits, which would save 1 attack. That's not enough, not on its own anyway - Stinger scored 14 hits on his WR, so we need to save 5 attacks.

With proper timing, you could use Acid Storm (or start with Acid Storm then switch to a spell with a shorter animation until Acid Storm's about to wear off, then Acid Storm one last time) to stun lock the Mana Beast before it can cast Wall. The stun also extends the duration of the cycle. So long as you don't wind up spending more than ~35 seconds in menus, if it turns out the strategy guarantees a 1 cycle then it's worth it.

There would have to be 3 "free" attacks due to stun lock, and 2 due to Acid Storm for this to pay off. I think it would come really close.

Assuming you don't "miss" with Acid Storm, the +64 damage from the Mana Seeds helps a lot with Acid Storm's duration.  If my calculations are correct, it should last ~13 seconds.  You could start Acid Storm immediately after the Boy's first hit, so that most of the animation is during the Boy's cooldown.  You can stack damage vs the Mana Beast while the numbers from the previous hit are displaying, so you only have to wait for the duration of the animation.  From what I can tell, each attack vs the Mana Beast takes you guys almost exactly 2 seconds of game time, so that would be 6 enhanced hits, which would save 1 attack.  That's not enough, not on its own anyway - Stinger scored 14 hits on his WR, so we need to save 5 attacks.

With proper timing, you could use Acid Storm (or start with Acid Storm then switch to a spell with a shorter animation until Acid Storm's about to wear off, then Acid Storm one last time) to stun lock the Mana Beast before it can cast Wall.  The stun also extends the duration of the cycle.  So long as you don't wind up spending more than ~35 seconds in menus, if it turns out the strategy guarantees a 1 cycle then it's worth it.

There would have to be 3 "free" attacks due to stun lock, and 2 due to Acid Storm for this to pay off.  I think it would come really close.

Yagamoth

2014-03-24 09:38:19 am

INTJ

Before about a month I was testing with Slow Down and managed to be lacking 2 or 3 hits in the end - which was nowhere near enough. But since the hits are buffered with Slow Down I will also only get about 2 or 3 hits in with the debuff active.

Crow!

Edit history:

Crow!: 2014-03-24 04:24:45 pm

2014-03-24 04:24:07 pm

What's that gemma?

I'm able to get a 1-cycle Mana Beast on 2 controllers most of the time using only level 0 Acid Storm.

The key is that level 0 Acid Storm's animation is EXACTLY the duration you want for this scenario - trying to chain cast it will let the Mana Beast move (and show his previous damage) for a very brief period of time, during which you can stack on damage with the Boy.

Start casting the first Acid Storm immediately after one of the Boy's attacks, and the Acid Storm will hit immediately after the Boy lands his hit. Pause buffer each attack right as the "you scored a hit" sound occurs, and start the Sprite casting his next Acid Storm as if you're chaincasting for a 1p1c run. Stop casting when the Mana Beast is too close to the central position, as a reflected Acid Storm hitting the Boy is very bad.

As always, keep the Sprite in position to be hit by the Mana Beast's Lucent Beam attacks and use Chocolates to cancel the knockback so you can keep pause buffering uninterrupted.

Depending on Lucid Beam casting invulnerability and critical hits, the timing for getting the 1 cycle can either be quite lenient or extremely tight. If it's going to be tight, getting the Acid Storm casts close to "frame perfect" (which according to frame rules for pausing is within ~2 frames) can be the difference.

I've attached a SNES9x movie demonstration. I'll note that I practiced this on a modified version of my 1p1c game - I used cheat codes to grant the Boy a Glove weapon experience level and to revert the Sprite to level 0 Undine so I could test this out; this does mean that the Sprite has more Intelligence than a 1p2c run Sprite would have. It could make a difference, but I doubt it. (If it does, then there's always the possibility of using Freeze somewhere (vs the Pebblers?) so that by the last cast vs the Mana Beast it's level 1.)

I'm able to get a 1-cycle Mana Beast on 2 controllers most of the time using only level 0 Acid Storm.

The key is that level 0 Acid Storm's animation is EXACTLY the duration you want for this scenario - trying to chain cast it will let the Mana Beast move (and show his previous damage) for a very brief period of time, during which you can stack on damage with the Boy.

Start casting the first Acid Storm immediately after one of the Boy's attacks, and the Acid Storm will hit immediately after the Boy lands his hit.  Pause buffer each attack right as the "you scored a hit" sound occurs, and start the Sprite casting his next Acid Storm as if you're chaincasting for a 1p1c run.  Stop casting when the Mana Beast is too close to the central position, as a reflected Acid Storm hitting the Boy is very bad.

As always, keep the Sprite in position to be hit by the Mana Beast's Lucent Beam attacks and use Chocolates to cancel the knockback so you can keep pause buffering uninterrupted.

Depending on Lucid Beam casting invulnerability and critical hits, the timing for getting the 1 cycle can either be quite lenient or extremely tight.  If it's going to be tight, getting the Acid Storm casts close to "frame perfect" (which according to frame rules for pausing is within ~2 frames) can be the difference.

I've attached a SNES9x movie demonstration.  I'll note that I practiced this on a modified version of my 1p1c game - I used cheat codes to grant the Boy a Glove weapon experience level and to revert the Sprite to level 0 Undine so I could test this out; this does mean that the Sprite has more Intelligence than a 1p2c run Sprite would have.  It could make a difference, but I doubt it.  (If it does, then there's always the possibility of using Freeze somewhere (vs the Pebblers?) so that by the last cast vs the Mana Beast it's level 1.)

Attachment:

Mana Beast 1p2c demo.smv

StingerPA

2014-03-25 04:38:03 pm

Newer strats for Blue Spike: Cast 1 Freeze to begin the fight, and do 2 full damage WCG hits. This will bypass the fake death animation, and is a few seconds faster than the 3 hit method. When you go for the WCG hits, let the boy and sprite overcharge slightly more than usual to prevent a low damage roll. If you get low damages, it'll cause the fake death animation to happen and waste 6 seconds.

Crow!

2014-03-25 07:42:17 pm

What's that gemma?

A few bosses (such as Spikey Tiger and Kilroy) have two exit tiles in the room, right next to each other. This makes it reasonably easy to reproduce the TAS's skip of the whiteout event by mashing left and right between them as the boss explodes, presumably saving 2.5 seconds if you succeed.

It might be a good idea to test this on the Dragons before trying to use it there; I wouldn't be surprised if that resulted in a softlock.

StingerPA

Edit history:

StingerPA: 2014-03-28 01:21:48 pm

StingerPA: 2014-03-27 09:33:33 am

2014-03-27 12:55:07 am

Quote from Crow!:

A few bosses (such as Spikey Tiger and Kilroy) have two exit tiles in the room, right next to each other. This makes it reasonably easy to reproduce the TAS's skip of the whiteout event by mashing left and right between them as the boss explodes, presumably saving 2.5 seconds if you succeed.

It might be a good idea to test this on the Dragons before trying to use it there; I wouldn't be surprised if that resulted in a softlock.

Touch-me commented that it saved 150 frames in the tas, but I'm coming closer to 120 frames instead, so it'll save 2 seconds each time. You should also be aware that you'll cause lag frames when you move while the boss is dying, so move as little as possible after you get the whiteout skip.

I've started trying this where I can, and it doesn't seem to softlock, even on the dragons. I think this might actually prevent softlocks that otherwise could happen. The reason for this is that you end up skipping the healing part of the post-boss event, which is where most of our softlocks have come from. This would guarantee no softlock on Blue Spike, especially since the game wouldn't be stuck trying to remove the eating status from the characters if that happens. Another benefit to this is keeping Pygmy status on the Sprite in-between bosses, which is huge for the Pure Lands. We'll need to be more careful about where the sprite goes, but this would save us probably 2 additional seconds because of menus.

Here are the bosses we can do this on, with 1 controller only bosses being marked with an asterisk:
Spikey Tiger
Kilroy
Jabberwocky (have to step on the switch leading to the seed)
Doom's Wall (use the entrance tiles)
*Blue Spike
*Gorgon Bull
Mech Rider III (have to step on the warp switches in the room)
*Snow Dragon
*Axe Beak (use the entrance tiles)
*Red Dragon
*Thunder Gigas (use the entrance tiles)
*Blue Dragon
Buffy

From this, we can see that 1 controller has a lot more to gain from this. You have 14 bosses for 1c as compared to 6 for 2c, and you also get to keep the pygmy status in the Pure Lands.

Also, I can confirm that using the midge mallet on all the magic casting fights except snapdragon is faster than just going in normally. We had pretty much assumed this, but now it's certain.

[quote="Crow!"]A few bosses (such as Spikey Tiger and Kilroy) have two exit tiles in the room, right next to each other.  This makes it reasonably easy to reproduce the TAS's skip of the whiteout event by mashing left and right between them as the boss explodes, presumably saving 2.5 seconds if you succeed.

It might be a good idea to test this on the Dragons before trying to use it there; I wouldn't be surprised if that resulted in a softlock.[/quote]
Touch-me commented that it saved 150 frames in the tas, but I'm coming closer to 120 frames instead, so it'll save 2 seconds each time.  You should also be aware that you'll cause lag frames when you move while the boss is dying, so move as little as possible after you get the whiteout skip.

I've started trying this where I can, and it doesn't seem to softlock, even on the dragons.  I think this might actually prevent softlocks that otherwise could happen. The reason for this is that you end up skipping the healing part of the post-boss event, which is where most of our softlocks have come from.  This would guarantee no softlock on Blue Spike, especially since the game wouldn't be stuck trying to remove the eating status from the characters if that happens.  Another benefit to this is keeping Pygmy status on the Sprite in-between bosses, which is huge for the Pure Lands.  We'll need to be more careful about where the sprite goes, but this would save us probably 2 additional seconds because of menus.

Here are the bosses we can do this on, with 1 controller only bosses being marked with an asterisk:
Spikey Tiger
Kilroy
Jabberwocky (have to step on the switch leading to the seed)
Doom's Wall (use the entrance tiles)
*Blue Spike
*Gorgon Bull
Mech Rider III (have to step on the warp switches in the room)
*Snow Dragon
*Axe Beak (use the entrance tiles)
*Red Dragon
*Thunder Gigas (use the entrance tiles)
*Blue Dragon
Buffy

From this, we can see that 1 controller has a lot more to gain from this.  You have 14 bosses for 1c as compared to 6 for 2c, and you also get to keep the pygmy status in the Pure Lands.

Also, I can confirm that using the midge mallet on all the magic casting fights except snapdragon is faster than just going in normally.  We had pretty much assumed this, but now it's certain.

Deuceler

Edit history:

Deuceler: 2014-03-27 01:05:34 am

2014-03-27 01:05:15 am

SPEEDruns not SAFEruns

Hey guys - love the progress the 1 controller run has been making. Quick question - is there any kind of reference/notes/video of a co-op run? I know one has been done and from what I hear, it's pretty damn good. Would just like to take a peek Cheesy

I'm assuming it's similar to 1p2c....

Yagamoth

2014-03-27 02:47:15 am

INTJ

Skipping the whiteout might be interesting... But, does it also skip the experience-gain? The healing? Both could be quite an issue. Further, keeping pygmy between bosses in the pure lands seems like a neat idea at first, but keep in mind that you have only 1/3 of the armor while pygmied. But overall it seems quite interesting oô

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
@ Deuceler: From what I know, the most current coop run should be the one StingerPA and me did at AGDQ 2014 (find the video here)

For notes... I don't think there are any actual run notes. The information on how the glitches etc. work you can find here: https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Secret_of_Mana