Secret of Mana

2013-10-02 09:00:05 am

What's that gemma?

Minor improvement to the Sunken Continent skip: Because the music in the Grand Palace is the same as that which is outdoors, I can remove one instance of the game halting to load a new song by waiting one more screen transition before switching back to the original file. So I enter the Sunken Continent area, swap to the just-got-Flammie file, enter the Grand Palace, leave the Grand Palace, swap back to the real file, and enter the Grand Palace, and now I'm in with a functioning rope, about 1 second faster.

I can get Lumina to level 3 at the price of only menuing time (plus walnuts, which again are just menuing time), no screen transitions needed, by simply casting Lucid Barrier on herself (not on the whole party) while the Sprite is casting spells. I can cast a Lucid Barrier on the whole party at the end of boss fights and during the Sprite's Crystal Orbs in the Grand Palace.

I have tested the Lucent Beam strategy by starting from my previous run's first Frosty Forest file, and it seems to work, but right now I'm finding myself unable to make it to Spikey Tiger so there's no completed runs to show. One thing I'll note is that a level 1 spell is insufficient to kill the Boy with the Wall Glitch if he gets 60k experience, so either I'm going to have to cast the spell I got up to level 4 during Buffy (at a waste in terms of Magic Experience), or I'm going to have to remove the "improved" wall glitch as an available backup strat, and instead just make sure nobody dies during bosses.

There's also the minor irritation that I either have to use the girl to restock the Cups of Wishes, or else I need to wait for the Boy to fully revive before he does so.

Lucid Barrier works on special moves, like Balloon Ring and Freeze Beam. Attacks which ordinarily inflict a status effect will leave you alone if Lucid Barrier blocks the hit. For reference, Lucid Barrier grants a total value of damage that it shields before breaking, not a certain number of attacks it blocks, with the particular attack that breaks the shield still getting blocked. I'm not certain about moves that cause your character to become incapacitated before the hit is scored (the various eating attacks, of which only Buffy is relevant). Unfortunately, some of the bosses mentioned in your post occur before Lumina is acquired.

Minor improvement to the Sunken Continent skip: Because the music in the Grand Palace is the same as that which is outdoors, I can remove one instance of the game halting to load a new song by waiting one more screen transition before switching back to the original file.  So I enter the Sunken Continent area, swap to the just-got-Flammie file, enter the Grand Palace, leave the Grand Palace, swap back to the real file, and enter the Grand Palace, and now I'm in with a functioning rope, about 1 second faster.

I can get Lumina to level 3 at the price of only menuing time (plus walnuts, which again are just menuing time), no screen transitions needed, by simply casting Lucid Barrier on herself (not on the whole party) while the Sprite is casting spells.  I can cast a Lucid Barrier on the whole party at the end of boss fights and during the Sprite's Crystal Orbs in the Grand Palace.

I have tested the Lucent Beam strategy by starting from my previous run's first Frosty Forest file, and it seems to work, but right now I'm finding myself unable to make it to Spikey Tiger so there's no completed runs to show.  One thing I'll note is that a level 1 spell is insufficient to kill the Boy with the Wall Glitch if he gets 60k experience, so either I'm going to have to cast the spell I got up to level 4 during Buffy (at a waste in terms of Magic Experience), or I'm going to have to remove the "improved" wall glitch as an available backup strat, and instead just make sure nobody dies during bosses.

There's also the minor irritation that I either have to use the girl to restock the Cups of Wishes, or else I need to wait for the Boy to fully revive before he does so.

Lucid Barrier works on special moves, like Balloon Ring and Freeze Beam.  Attacks which ordinarily inflict a status effect will leave you alone if Lucid Barrier blocks the hit.  For reference, Lucid Barrier grants a total value of damage that it shields before breaking, not a certain number of attacks it blocks, with the particular attack that breaks the shield still getting blocked.  I'm not certain about moves that cause your character to become incapacitated before the hit is scored (the various eating attacks, of which only Buffy is relevant).  Unfortunately, some of the bosses mentioned in your post occur before Lumina is acquired.

Yagamoth

2013-10-02 09:15:13 am

INTJ

You (can) get Lumina after Mech Rider #2 + Blue Tiger + 2nd Minorous.. Pretty silly of me suggesting Lucid Barrier for the Blue Tiger oô. So that leaves us with the following potentially WCG-able bosses via Lucid Barrier:
- Snap Dragon (... Probably not worth it, he takes a ton of damage from Fire)
- Hexas (Already possible, but negates the possibility of getting pygmied)
- Dragon Worm (Maybe gives you more leeway for hitting)
- Dragons (I -think- they move faster the further they are away from you. So, standing below them should make them not move at all. They have acceleration, momentum and deceleration)

Ok... Overall not that great. But maybe still useful for running through areas?

Crow!

Edit history:

Crow!: 2013-10-03 08:45:06 am

2013-10-03 08:44:52 am

What's that gemma?

Lucid Barrier seemed helpful throughout Pureland and against Tsunamis, Fiend Heads, and that one Ninja Master that actually attacks. It's also nice for the Grand Palace skip where you run away from the Doom Sword (sometimes it would petrify the girl, which costs time).

If someone can demonstrate a reliable way to keep the dragons from moving, then I'm skipping Salamando. If that method involves Lucid Barrier, so much the better.

I can get longer distances traveled with the targeted whip pole wall skips if I cast a spell. It seems to make the process more reliable, mainly because the girl becomes unlikely to get on a direct line with the intended target, at which point she would otherwise stop moving and attack. It's a bit slower in the ideal case scenario, however.

Crow!

2013-10-03 08:28:11 pm

What's that gemma?

So, I was finally doing well in a run, only about 1 minute behind my PB/WR time at Santa, when I accidentally pressed B during the rope's animation in the Fire Palace.

Don't press B after calling the rope if a Mana Seed is around. The game soft locks.

TheAngryPanda

2013-10-03 08:33:04 pm

Speed > Safety

oh man, that's awful... Sad

hope you can get another run that good going again.

Yagamoth

Edit history:

Yagamoth: 2013-10-03 09:01:22 pm

2013-10-03 08:59:53 pm

INTJ

It softlocked? Interesting, it didn't do that for me when I played around with that... Do you have a recording of that? I assume you simply stand around at the entrance being unable to do anything

-> try pressing L/R. In case there is a hidden textbox or anything hidden that requires input to progress and no character is assigned to that action you can advance that by pressing specific buttons. I'm reasonably certain R works, L probably as well.
-> The reason I know this is, if you have character #3 active and then unplug the multitab it at any point, the 3rd character gets automatically reassigned for the AI to take over. With this you can initiate a NPC dialog with character #3, unplug the multitab and then run around while the textbox is active. To remove it you can simply press R/L.

Also... I just tested it on emulator - it did not quite softlock. However, my suggestion also didn't work out.
-> It did not quite softlock meaning, after around 20 or 30 seconds I could move again. No input required, I simply got control back.. So, at least it shouldn't be a softlock I guess :/

It softlocked? Interesting, it didn't do that for me when I played around with that... Do you have a recording of that? I assume you simply stand around at the entrance being unable to do anything

-> try pressing L/R. In case there is a hidden textbox or anything hidden that requires input to progress and no character is assigned to that action you can advance that by pressing specific buttons. I'm reasonably certain R works, L probably as well.
-> The reason I know this is, if you have character #3 active and then unplug the multitab it at any point, the 3rd character gets automatically reassigned for the AI to take over. With this you can initiate a NPC dialog with character #3, unplug the multitab and then run around while the textbox is active. To remove it you can simply press R/L.

Also... I just tested it on emulator - it did not quite softlock. However, my suggestion also didn't work out. 
-> It did not quite softlock meaning, after around 20 or 30 seconds I could move again. No input required, I simply got control back.. So, at least it shouldn't be a softlock I guess :/

Crow!

Edit history:

Crow!: 2013-10-06 05:12:58 pm

Crow!: 2013-10-06 05:11:45 pm

2013-10-06 05:09:01 pm

What's that gemma?

I completed another run, about 5 minutes slower than my record. I emerged with Mallet in hand approximately tied with my WR/PB, but then I miscounted my cups of wishes during the Wall Glitch, requiring me to complete the Palace of Darkness with the Boy dead, and then I died at the Shadows fight, and then I botched Watermelion so bad he did his jump in the air and run around routine twice, and then I epically failed the whip pole glitches in Grand Palace, bringing me to Pureland 9 minutes behind.

The Lucid Barrier / Lucent Beam strategy saved me ~3.5 minutes on Dark Lich alone, and another ~1.5 minutes at Buffy. I arrive at buffy with level 3 Lumina and arrive at Dark Lich at level 4.

Crow!

Edit history:

Crow!: 2013-10-07 06:59:07 pm

2013-10-07 06:58:37 pm

What's that gemma?

Something caught my eye while perusing HHS's formula sheet:

Quote from HHS:

The target of a reflected spell must be less than 240 pixels in total in both directions from the original target

Finding a good geometry to abuse this could potentially make the Wall Glitch much faster. Here's the best I found:

- Enter the Dark Palace with the boy unequiped and with the Sprite set to charge level 0. Let the boy get hit by the Fiend Head. Swap to the girl and go up.

- Push the Dark Knight upward into the gate while he winds up his attack, then once he releases (he will miss everyone, his hitbox sucks as much as the Terminator's does), go left through the door to the dead-end passage.

- Re-enter the Wall Glitch room, and there will be a Dark Knight on the high ground to your left and a Dark Knight at the spot where you left him to the right.

- Swap to the Sprite, and walk to the right as far as you can without making the high ground Dark Knight untargetable (use the fresco on the wall in concert with the current position within the walkway that the Dark Knight is located as a guide), then walk down as far as you can.
--- Just walk past the low ground knight's hitbox.
--- This is rather picky. Ideal positioning will put you just barely over the 240 total pixels mark.
--- If you go too far right, you can either leave the room and return, or you can do this iteration of the Wall Glitch like in olden times, using the low ground Knight.

- Cast Freeze (or Earth Slide, if it's sufficiently leveled) on the high ground Dark Knight (it will be the default target). IMMEDIATELY swap to the girl and walk to the right (and as far downward) as the Sprite is.

- The boy will be hit by the Sprite's spell. Use this time to position the Dark Knight properly for the next go-round.
--- Make sure the low ground Dark Knight doesn't hit the boy as the spell's animation is playing, otherwise he may steal credit for the kill.

- Once the boy dies, walk up through the door on the left, use a Cup of Wishes, select the Sprite, walk down to the Wall Glitch room, and swap to the Boy ASAP so he can get hit by the Dark Knight.
--- If you're not fast enough (adding in the swap makes the timing on getting hit tight), just have the Sprite cast twice - this requires pricise yet hasty positioning with the girl to pull off, however, or else you may scroll the camera too far right so the intended dark knight isn't targetable anymore.
--- This step is why the Sprite is set to charge level 0 - he otherwise will have charged up to level 1 by the time the boy falls, and he will release it when you swap to him here, costing time and probably letting the high ground knight change his position while you're casting.

- At this point, the Sprite is leveled enough to kill the boy from full HP with a level 4 Freeze, so you no longer have to bother with getting the Dark Knight to hit the boy. Therefore, while the boy is being killed the second time, you should push the Dark Knight down to where it will no longer bother you. Keep it there in subsequent Wall Glitch iterations.

- As necessary, restock your Cups of Wishes from 4x to 0x by using the girl as the boy is being killed.
--- I walk the girl further to the right than usual in order to line up the girl's portrait with the entryway, then I line the girl up with the entryway.
--- Just be sure there aren't any walnuts at 5x left, as these will be reduced to 1x.

Attached to this post is a video demonstration of this technique. This is a little over 1 minute faster than the previous Wall Glitch strategy, and it has less room for RNG trolling, though more room for execution errors.

Something caught my eye while perusing HHS's formula sheet:
[quote=HHS]The target of a reflected spell must be less than 240 pixels in total in both directions from the original target[/quote]
Finding a good geometry to abuse this could potentially make the Wall Glitch much faster.  Here's the best I found:

- Enter the Dark Palace with the boy unequiped and with the Sprite set to charge level 0.  Let the boy get hit by the Fiend Head. Swap to the girl and go up.

- Push the Dark Knight upward into the gate while he winds up his attack, then once he releases (he will miss everyone, his hitbox sucks as much as the Terminator's does), go left through the door to the dead-end passage.

- Re-enter the Wall Glitch room, and there will be a Dark Knight on the high ground to your left and a Dark Knight at the spot where you left him to the right.

- Swap to the Sprite, and walk to the right as far as you can without making the high ground Dark Knight untargetable (use the fresco on the wall in concert with the current position within the walkway that the Dark Knight is located as a guide), then walk down as far as you can.
--- Just walk past the low ground knight's hitbox.
--- This is rather picky.  Ideal positioning will put you just barely over the 240 total pixels mark.
--- If you go too far right, you can either leave the room and return, or you can do this iteration of the Wall Glitch like in olden times, using the low ground Knight.

- Cast Freeze (or Earth Slide, if it's sufficiently leveled) on the high ground Dark Knight (it will be the default target).  IMMEDIATELY swap to the girl and walk to the right (and as far downward) as the Sprite is.

- The boy [b]will [/b] be hit by the Sprite's spell.  Use this time to position the Dark Knight properly for the next go-round.
--- Make sure the low ground Dark Knight doesn't hit the boy as the spell's animation is playing, otherwise he may steal credit for the kill.

- Once the boy dies, walk up through the door on the left, use a Cup of Wishes, select the Sprite, walk down to the Wall Glitch room, and swap to the Boy ASAP so he can get hit by the Dark Knight.
--- If you're not fast enough (adding in the swap makes the timing on getting hit tight), just have the Sprite cast twice - this requires pricise yet hasty positioning with the girl to pull off, however, or else you may scroll the camera too far right so the intended dark knight isn't targetable anymore.
--- This step is why the Sprite is set to charge level 0 - he otherwise will have charged up to level 1 by the time the boy falls, and he will release it when you swap to him here, costing time and probably letting the high ground knight change his position while you're casting.

- At this point, the Sprite is leveled enough to kill the boy from full HP with a level 4 Freeze, so you no longer have to bother with getting the Dark Knight to hit the boy.  Therefore, while the boy is being killed the second time, you should push the Dark Knight down to where it will no longer bother you.  Keep it there in subsequent Wall Glitch iterations.

- As necessary, restock your Cups of Wishes from 4x to 0x by using the girl as the boy is being killed.
--- I walk the girl further to the right than usual in order to line up the girl's portrait with the entryway, then I line the girl up with the entryway.
--- Just be sure there aren't any walnuts at 5x left, as these will be reduced to 1x.

Attached to this post is a video demonstration of this technique.  This is a little over 1 minute faster than the previous Wall Glitch strategy, and it has less room for RNG trolling, though more room for execution errors.

Attachment:

WallGlitchDemo.mp4

Yagamoth

2013-10-08 03:11:28 am

INTJ

Oh, that's neat, awesome - that takes the rng out of the equation. That's always good Cheesy

StingerPA

2013-10-09 10:22:43 pm

Just thought that you guys would like to know that I have confirmed the Magic Rope cutscene at the Wind Palace is in fact, SLOWER than not using the magic rope before the cutscene. I timed it out to a difference of ~100 frames, so just over 1.6 seconds difference. Most of that difference is having to open the menu and then go from the weapon ring to the item ring on the Girl's or Sprite's menu. This makes it doubly slow since you would next need them to change weapons at some point in the 1P2C run. For 1c, I think it would still be slower, but not by nearly as big of a margin since the Girl's/Sprite's menu would likely already be on the item ring.

I did not test the Undine cutscene, but now that I'm thinking about optimizing menus, it could be slower because you'd be changing the Girl's/Sprite's menu to the item ring when you need to change the boy's ring to the item ring anyways later in the run. I'll do tests later and report back on it.

Yagamoth

2013-10-09 10:31:08 pm

INTJ

Thank you for the confirmation Smiley

I usually try to keep the Boys menu on the items, since he never has to do anything else really.. Thinking about it -> swapping to the whip and axe for the one-time uses should be faster on the girl since she usually has the weapons menu open. Unless we use spells.. All in all, I feel like that's something we can work out to optimize by just thinking about it oô

Crow!

2013-10-10 11:39:38 am

What's that gemma?

In the 1 controller run, I have to pick up the Mana Seed. Both the conversation with Grandpa and the Mana Seed sealing require the party to gather, but do not set the walk through walls flag, so that the AIs flounder around, either in an effort to escape seed's stairway before reaching Grandpa or to get around the stage into the stairway if you do it in the other order. Surely, an item ring switch plus the gathering time would amount to 2 seconds of difference between the two categories.

By the way, what would we call the 1p1c category in terms of SDA submissions? Just Single Segment? 1 Player Single Segment? 1 Controller Single Segment? 1 Player Single Segment with Save Corruption Abuse?

Musashi

Edit history:

Musashi: 2013-10-10 06:09:54 pm

2013-10-10 06:09:44 pm

But time flows like a river...

Glitched 1p1c SS imo.

Yagamoth

Edit history:

Yagamoth: 2013-10-12 10:50:00 am

2013-10-12 10:49:52 am

INTJ

1p1c is basically the standard category, any% with major skips. Not sure if any additional description is necessary

1p2c is no real SDA category, it would be considered a coop-run and thus named "any% coop with major skips" ^^

Crow!

2013-10-21 05:31:49 pm

What's that gemma?

I've been trying to run this from time to time, to no success. So far, I can't keep myself in the zone long enough to survive the 3 hour ordeal without some serious errors that far outweigh my routing gains.

I'm therefore submitting the 3:18:18 run for now, as it doesn't seem as though I'm going to beat it in the near future.

StingerPA

2013-10-21 05:37:03 pm

Just remember that when you submit, the correct timing is 3:16:39 according to SDA timing. SDA starts timing when you are first able to control the character, which is after you fall from the bridge in the intro. SDA timing ends when you lose control, so it's when the party begins to gather after killing the Mana Beast.

Congrats on the submission, I'll be sure to verify it when it pops up on the queue.

Crow!

2013-10-21 05:56:04 pm

What's that gemma?

It starts when you gain the ability to move around, and not during the text boxes which you have to scroll through on the bridge above?

StingerPA

2013-10-21 06:17:31 pm

Yeah, that's the understanding I took from how SDA timing works.

Quote:

When the player first gains control of the game's character, timing begins. At the end when control is lost, even if that's long after the final battle, the timing stops.

I experienced this with A Link to the Past SDA timing. The difference there between SDA and SRL timing is 27.3 seconds, and that comes from SDA timing not counting the text that occurs before Link jumps out of bed. Here, the difference is 1:39.6 with perfect text mashing.

StingerPA

2013-10-22 08:09:42 am

Sorry for the double post, but I believe one glitch mystery has been solved. I found a post on the GameFAQs SoM board detailing the glitch that happens at the beginning of the game when the screen will not scroll, and the game glitches out and scrolls the map endlessly. It works along the same lines as the soft-reset after saving at Neko. All you need to do is do the soft-reset while controlling the Girl or the Sprite, and start a new game. The game will fail to load or erase everything it was supposed to, and will act as if the Girl or Sprite is being controlled. This is why the intro freezes up, because the game does not recognize that the Boy is in the lead, and why the game glitches out when you gain control of the Boy after the initial text cutscene.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/588646-secret-of-mana/67578682

Yagamoth

Edit history:

Yagamoth: 2013-10-23 05:41:06 am

2013-10-23 05:39:49 am

INTJ

Oh wow, that's neat - I knew it was something about soft-reset, but I didn't realize it's that. Thanks for the link ^^

I wonder what else the game doesn't erase after a soft-reset->newgame.. Obviously all the flags for story progression are not set, and you don't have any other character in the party. So I assume the more 'temporary' information is what remains.

I assume the main reason this wasn't widely discovered is... Well, who soft-resets out of an existing game and creates a new game?

I assume this doesn't work with a savefile. Or does it?.. I'll write down some stuff for testing:
- Save a game anywhere, where you only have 2 characters (let's say Boy + Sprite), but save the game with the 3rd controller and nothing else active
-- 1) Save like that normally
-- 2) Unplug the multitab before you save, try to save with the 1st controller (the one usually gets control over the game when nothing else is active)
- Unplug the multitab in any case after saving
- Play until you get the 3rd character
- Soft-reset while controlling the 3rd character, then load the savefile(s) created before

No idea whether this will do anything at all, most likely not. And even if, it probably won't be useful. But interesting anyways.

I wonder... How would the SDA rules fare on this? I asked the same question in the tasvideos-forums a while ago, but I didn't get a definite answer what their stance is on this, it's a pretty weird issue.
--> If deactivating the multitab (there is an on/off switch on it) would yield any benefits for a Speedrun, what would be the rules on this? Please note, that the game has specific code and behavior programmed for this case (it deactivates the 3rd character and puts the AI in charge), so it's not the same as tilting a cartridge, it's more like pressing the Reset-button.
--> Same question with unplugging a controller instead of deactivating a legit device

Edit: Oh also, I'll have to check whether the 'non-functioning' buttons manipulate anything in the memory during this glitch

Oh wow, that's neat - I knew it was something about soft-reset, but I didn't realize it's that. Thanks for the link ^^

I wonder what else the game doesn't erase after a soft-reset->newgame.. Obviously all the flags for story progression are not set, and you don't have any other character in the party. So I assume the more 'temporary' information is what remains.

I assume the main reason this wasn't widely discovered is... Well, who soft-resets out of an existing game and creates a new game?

I assume this doesn't work with a savefile. Or does it?.. I'll write down some stuff for testing:
- Save a game anywhere, where you only have 2 characters (let's say Boy + Sprite), but save the game with the 3rd controller and nothing else active
-- 1) Save like that normally
-- 2) Unplug the multitab before you save, try to save with the 1st controller (the one usually gets control over the game when nothing else is active)
- Unplug the multitab in any case after saving
- Play until you get the 3rd character
- Soft-reset while controlling the 3rd character, then load the savefile(s) created before

No idea whether this will do anything at all, most likely not. And even if, it probably won't be useful. But interesting anyways.

I wonder... How would the SDA rules fare on this? I asked the same question in the tasvideos-forums a while ago, but I didn't get a definite answer what their stance is on this, it's a pretty weird issue.
--> If deactivating the multitab (there is an on/off switch on it) would yield any benefits for a Speedrun, what would be the rules on this? Please note, that the game has specific code and behavior programmed for this case (it deactivates the 3rd character and puts the AI in charge), so it's not the same as tilting a cartridge, it's more like pressing the Reset-button.
--> Same question with unplugging a controller instead of deactivating a legit device

Edit: Oh also, I'll have to check whether the 'non-functioning' buttons manipulate anything in the memory during this glitch

Crow!

Edit history:

Crow!: 2013-10-23 05:06:23 pm

2013-10-23 04:56:02 pm

What's that gemma?

About two years ago, I spent some time chasing after a commonly reported bug where by saving while a buffing magic is active you can prevent the game from ever bothering to remove it, but I was never able to reproduce that behavior. Perhaps some permutation of soft resetting and game file swapping is involved, or perhaps the reports were bogus to begin with.

In any case, after seeing the soft reset new game softlock, I had come to the conclusion that every run of SoM should start from a hard reset, not just to prevent the softlock but also becuase I had no way of knowing what all parts of the memory were not being properly initialized; in some sense, the previous run hadn't completely ended yet.

TheAngryPanda

2013-10-23 05:25:43 pm

Speed > Safety

I know that in Secret of Evermore, magic is kept post-death if you start a new game. The game just doesn't update the values for whatever reason and causes some major issues without a proper reset. There's also the old form of the Atlas Glitch where you would cast it, save, re-load the game, and continue with the process until reaching your intended attack stat goal. Perhaps someone simply confused the two games because that sounds awfully familiar.

That being said, it's also possible that it may involve being in a specific area or done in a specific order/time frame for it to work as described, but that would be quite a long shot.

Yagamoth

Edit history:

Yagamoth: 2013-10-23 05:48:53 pm

2013-10-23 05:39:43 pm

INTJ

I tried the stat-keeping stuff in SoM but I could never make it permanent. The way it's set up in the memory also suggests it shouldn't work, because as far as I know each buff/debuff has it's own 'flag' which is at the same time the timer (So, it's not even a list like in SoE). Even if you manage to activate a buff somehow or keep it, it should wear it off after the timer runs out.

I'm not 100% certain on that though, more like 90%. Basically built on me seeing only ever the timers, but never any other debuff-flags in the memory.

TheAngryPanda

Edit history:

TheAngryPanda: 2013-10-23 05:58:02 pm

2013-10-23 05:54:06 pm

Speed > Safety

That would lead me to believe that it's probably bogus or they misinterpreted whatever it was they noticed. Hrm... Seems the only thing common between the two games is that both have "Secret of" in the title; lol.

The only other thing I can suggest testing (and I'm sure it's already been tested) is something akin to Perm-Aura, which involved stacking debuffs/buffs to permanently acquire the effect of the initially casted buff/debuff. I can't remember how many (if any) stat buffs there are in SoM, but perhaps something like this could exist? Wouldn't be too difficult to test I don't think, but I also don't know if it would even be useful at all?

Yagamoth

Edit history:

Yagamoth: 2013-10-24 06:07:19 am

Yagamoth: 2013-10-24 06:07:00 am

Yagamoth: 2013-10-24 05:28:40 am

Yagamoth: 2013-10-24 05:27:10 am

Yagamoth: 2013-10-24 05:16:49 am

Yagamoth: 2013-10-24 05:16:32 am

Yagamoth: 2013-10-24 05:15:02 am

2013-10-24 05:11:06 am

INTJ

Here's how the memory looks (I had it a bit different in my mind) from HHS' post over at tasvideos:

Quote:

7ee000 Man variables
7ee200 Woman variables
7ee400 Sprite variables
7ee600 Enemy and NPC variables
..
..1B0 Stat enhancements (1=Defense up, 2=Defense down, 4=Evade up, 8=Evade down, 16=Hit up, 32=Hit down, 64=Attack up, 128=Attack down)
..1B1 Status 2 (1=Falling asleep, 2=Can't be thrown, 4=Remedy cast, 8=Hit with spell while dead, 10=Shield, 20=On jump tile, 40=Reflect, 80=Chest)
..1B2 Slow, tangled, sleep, freeze, petrify timer
..1B3 Silence, stop timer
..1B4 Hurt timer
..1B5 Transform, moogle timer
..1B6 Poison, burning timer
..1B7 Attack timer
..1B8 Reflect uses left
..1B9 Main timer
..1BA Hit rate timer
..1BB Evade rate timer
..1BC Defense timer
..1BD Shield energy
..1BF Shield defense

Example:
In theory a value of binary "0111 1111" in the address "7ee1B0" would mean the Boy has Defense up + Defense Down + Evade up + Evade down + Hit up + Hit down + Attack up + Attack down (Btw. those are do not affect the character status view). So the statuses actually do have flags...

They do not overlap. I wonder... Which timer do they use?.. The permanent effects are not impossible looking at this..

Now, some status effects are exclusive

Quote:

Incompatible status effects:
Petrify removes slow, tangled, sleep, freeze, stop, barrel and burning, and halves HP every time status changes
Freeze removes slow, tangled, sleep, stop, barrel, poison and burning
Sleep removes slow, tangled and barrel
Tangled removes slow, tangled and barrel
Moogle removes stop, barrel, transform, poison and burning
Freeze, petrify and mini remove transform
Transform removes slow, tangled, confuse, stop, barrel, poison and burning
Tangled, sleep, freeze, petrify, stop, poison, burning remove barrel
Burning removes stop, barrel and poison
Freeze, petrify, transform and moogle remove poison

Also:

Quote:

Timers are decremented every 20 frames.

========================

Now... One interesting part is this:
..1B1 Status 2 (1=Falling asleep, 2=Can't be thrown, 4=Remedy cast, 8=Hit with spell while dead, 10=Shield, 20=On jump tile, 40=Reflect, 80=Chest)

Please note, I do not even know whether it even works that way. I'm simply throwing around ideas:

Code:

1  = Binary 0000 0001 [Falling asleep]
2  = Binary 0000 0010 [Can't be thrown]
4  = Binary 0000 0100 [Remedy cast]
8  = Binary 0000 1000 [Hit with spell while dead]
10 = Binary 0000 0101 [Shield]
20 = Binary 0000 1010 [On jump tile]
40 = Binary 0010 1000 [Reflect]
80 = Binary 0101 0000 [Chest]

So... In theory if you get the statuses "Falling asleep" and "Remedy cast" at the same time it would mean "Shield"?..
-> BUT.. I do not even know what exactly these effect descriptions mean. They could simply be for monsters.
-> I read about an occurrance where someone reported that while he was going through the 2nd ruins it happened, that he attacked an Imp, suddenly shack him like a treasure chest and then the game crashed. So I imagine this kind of stuff is possible

Here's how the memory looks (I had it a bit different in my mind) from HHS' post over at tasvideos:

[quote]7ee000 Man variables
7ee200 Woman variables 
7ee400 Sprite variables 
7ee600 Enemy and NPC variables
..
..1B0 Stat enhancements (1=Defense up, 2=Defense down, 4=Evade up, 8=Evade down, 16=Hit up, 32=Hit down, 64=Attack up, 128=Attack down) 
..1B1 Status 2 (1=Falling asleep, 2=Can't be thrown, 4=Remedy cast, 8=Hit with spell while dead, 10=Shield, 20=On jump tile, 40=Reflect, 80=Chest) 
..1B2 Slow, tangled, sleep, freeze, petrify timer 
..1B3 Silence, stop timer 
..1B4 Hurt timer 
..1B5 Transform, moogle timer 
..1B6 Poison, burning timer 
..1B7 Attack timer 
..1B8 Reflect uses left 
..1B9 Main timer 
..1BA Hit rate timer 
..1BB Evade rate timer 
..1BC Defense timer 
..1BD Shield energy 
..1BF Shield defense[/quote]

Example:
In theory a value of binary "0111 1111" in the address "7ee1B0" would mean the Boy has Defense up + Defense Down + Evade up + Evade down + Hit up + Hit down + Attack up + Attack down (Btw. those are do not affect the character status view). So the statuses actually do have flags...

They do not overlap. I wonder... Which timer do they use?.. The permanent effects are not impossible looking at this..

Now, some status effects are exclusive

[quote]Incompatible status effects: 
 Petrify removes slow, tangled, sleep, freeze, stop, barrel and burning, and halves HP every time status changes 
 Freeze removes slow, tangled, sleep, stop, barrel, poison and burning 
 Sleep removes slow, tangled and barrel 
 Tangled removes slow, tangled and barrel 
 Moogle removes stop, barrel, transform, poison and burning 
 Freeze, petrify and mini remove transform 
 Transform removes slow, tangled, confuse, stop, barrel, poison and burning 
 Tangled, sleep, freeze, petrify, stop, poison, burning remove barrel 
 Burning removes stop, barrel and poison 
 Freeze, petrify, transform and moogle remove poison[/quote]

Also:
[quote]Timers are decremented every 20 frames.[/quote]

========================

Now... One interesting part is this:
..1B1 Status 2 (1=Falling asleep, 2=Can't be thrown, 4=Remedy cast, 8=Hit with spell while dead, 10=Shield, 20=On jump tile, 40=Reflect, 80=Chest)

Please note, I do not even know whether it even works that way. I'm simply throwing around ideas:
[code]
1  = Binary 0000 0001 [Falling asleep]
2  = Binary 0000 0010 [Can't be thrown]
4  = Binary 0000 0100 [Remedy cast]
8  = Binary 0000 1000 [Hit with spell while dead]
10 = Binary 0000 0101 [Shield]
20 = Binary 0000 1010 [On jump tile]
40 = Binary 0010 1000 [Reflect]
80 = Binary 0101 0000 [Chest]
[/code]

So... In theory if you get the statuses "Falling asleep" and "Remedy cast" at the same time it would mean "Shield"?..
-> BUT.. I do not even know what exactly these effect descriptions mean. They could simply be for monsters.
-> I read about an occurrance where someone reported that while he was going through the 2nd ruins it happened, that he attacked an Imp, suddenly shack him like a treasure chest and then the game crashed. So I imagine this kind of stuff is possible