Secret of Evermore (SNES)

2013-07-22 10:28:19 pm

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

Then you must have gotten a really nice drop :x. I spent at least 30 minutes today just trying to get it to work once and never got a single jewel drop. (So I couldn't try it out Sad

) Still though that's really going to be the only way Sting is viable unless we can find more vinegar without sacrificing time :/.

assassin17

2013-07-23 03:55:28 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

yeah, the chance of getting cash from a given enemy in that area is 1.34%. with 5 foes there, the total chance per screen visit is 6.52%.

Quote from me:

the weird thing is, the delay of zeroing it seems to be about half a second. but let's say i fetch the second item merely rather fast -- instead of super fast -- after about 1/3 of a second. instead of the logical behavior of getting the quantity i want, the incrementor zeroing actually gets expedited, and thwarts me. that's just weird.

ok, this observation could be b.s. it's probably just a matter of there being delay both before the boy squats and before he actually collects the ingredient. the incrementor seems to be pretty consistently zeroed 59 frames from the first retrieval message's start, though i haven't found the timer involved yet.

MetaSigma

2013-07-23 04:12:59 pm

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

New WR any% 1:19:22!

Sonikkustar

2013-07-23 04:16:29 pm

The Great Farming Empire

Nice! Are you gonna keep grinding or is this "the run"?

MetaSigma

Edit history:

MetaSigma: 2013-07-23 05:16:22 pm

2013-07-23 05:15:55 pm

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

I'll keep grinding Sub 1:19 is very possible. Hard, but possible. Really it's just getting Blimp Skip first try and then me having to nail the execution (Oh and not getting stupid drops to happen INFRONT OF ME IN A NARROW SPACE) Wink

TheAngryPanda

Edit history:

TheAngryPanda: 2013-07-23 05:55:54 pm

TheAngryPanda: 2013-07-23 05:53:53 pm

TheAngryPanda: 2013-07-23 05:53:34 pm

2013-07-23 05:46:14 pm

Speed > Safety

It's not hard at all, you just need to use a better/more refined route. And yeah, Sting apparently isn't going to work without basically getting lucky. Regardless, better route = better time... and I'm not saying using my route either, the route you use is fully capable of sub 19 with minor adjustments with roughly the same amount of luck as in that run.

TAS is pretty much going to change thanks to the information assassin's provided. The real question is how crazy am I going to make myself getting everything to work together properly...

ButtersBB

2013-07-24 06:43:50 am

Congrats, MetaSigma!

garik16

2013-07-24 11:11:43 am

Quote from MetaSigma:

New WR any% 1:19:22!

Just over 6 months ago, you had 2:30 and that was a pretty good time. Now you've pretty much cut that in half. O_o

Dragondarch

2013-07-24 02:57:49 pm

Pudding%

Quote from Dragondarch:

Last week I said this:
"I expect sub 1:40 in 2 weeks."
To which you replied:
"Dragondarch, NO! Don't say things like that! Sub 1:40 is NOT happening!"

This week you're aiming for sub 1:36.
So now I say this:
"I expect sub 1:30 in 2 weeks."

Prove me right plzkthx thumbsup

Once again, you guys prove me right (well, missed it by a couple days but w/e).

So now...
I expect sub 1:25 within 2 weeks.

I'm gonna keep doing this until there nothing left of the game...

I said this 4.5 months ago. I thought I had said sub 1:20, but whatever. Insane time Meta. I don't think I can give any more goal times unless you guys find any more skips (which I'm guessing is likely?) Tongue

TheAngryPanda

2013-07-24 03:19:34 pm

Speed > Safety

Well, if you won't give a goal then I will. Sub 1:15 by end of September. Sub 1:10 by end of May next year. And hell, why not, how about 1:05 by next September, somebody is bound to find a timer skip by then right? lol.

Tongue

TheAngryPanda

Edit history:

TheAngryPanda: 2013-08-02 01:01:40 pm

TheAngryPanda: 2013-07-31 11:19:46 pm

TheAngryPanda: 2013-07-31 07:50:41 pm

2013-07-31 01:10:53 pm

Speed > Safety

I'm going to be streaming some commentary on my guides, tas update, and the 100% route later for anyone that's interested after the marathon or if they'd like to hear my view on things. If anyone wants to suggest/ask questions about anything regarding the route or why things are like they are in the route(s) of their interest, I'd love to hear them/answer them for you. http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1

As for an actual update, I think it's time to really take risk into account for going after records. Simply put, using safe strats is basically devolving the route into the same mind-numbing low reward (time wise) situation we had before Defend was removed. I've been running tests with Act 1 and I think that 12 Hard Ball is where we should aim for now for serious WR attempts, it's a good balance of safety vs time loss for pickups. Also, if you REALLY wanna save some major time, drop Defend and start resetting if you don't get the Invincibility Glitch going after 5-6 attempts at it, preferably you'd get it 1st shot though. If someone did these two things and had the same luck the WR run has, they'd be around 30-40s ahead depending on various things like sprinting execution and other things of that nature, possibly even a minute.

The unfortunate downside to this is that it's obviously going to include more resets, but honestly if you're sick of resetting this game is definitely not for you.

I'm also planning on putting together a "race% route" so people might be able to race more effectively on SRL with less mass reset spam. The ruins hidden pathway is still going to be a problem of course.

edit: And if he doesn't post it himself, Crawek has the WR at 1:19:14. Will find a video of it when I have free time again.

I'm going to be streaming some commentary on my guides, tas update, and the 100% route later for anyone that's interested after the marathon or if they'd like to hear my view on things. If anyone wants to suggest/ask questions about anything regarding the route or why things are like they are in the route(s) of their interest, I'd love to hear them/answer them for you. http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1

As for an actual update, I think it's time to really take risk into account for going after records. Simply put, using safe strats is basically devolving the route into the same mind-numbing low reward (time wise) situation we had before Defend was removed. I've been running tests with Act 1 and I think that 12 Hard Ball is where we should aim for now for serious WR attempts, it's a good balance of safety vs time loss for pickups. Also, if you REALLY wanna save some major time, drop Defend and start resetting if you don't get the Invincibility Glitch going after 5-6 attempts at it, preferably you'd get it 1st shot though. If someone did these two things and had the same luck the WR run has, they'd be around 30-40s ahead depending on various things like sprinting execution and other things of that nature, possibly even a minute.

The unfortunate downside to this is that it's obviously going to include more resets, but honestly if you're sick of resetting this game is definitely not for you.

I'm also planning on putting together a "race% route" so people might be able to race more effectively on SRL with less mass reset spam. The ruins hidden pathway is still going to be a problem of course.

edit: And if he doesn't post it himself, Crawek has the WR at 1:19:14. Will find a video of it when I have free time again.

MetaSigma

2013-07-31 08:56:29 pm

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

Correction he has the emulator WR at 1:19:14

TheAngryPanda

Edit history:

TheAngryPanda: 2013-08-01 09:25:03 am

TheAngryPanda: 2013-07-31 10:54:17 pm

2013-07-31 09:28:15 pm

Speed > Safety

Why does that matter at all? The point being everyone has a new goal to shoot for.

Skarsnik

2013-08-02 12:48:23 pm

Hi there,
Just wanted to give you a link if people ask you something about the game http://sr.nyo.fr/soe.html it's mainly just a compilation of link to theAngryPanda's documents and few other things. I can add other link if you want/need.

Btw Crawek get another WR 1h19:09 (http://www.twitch.tv/crawek/c/2678311)

TheAngryPanda

2013-08-02 01:22:04 pm

Speed > Safety

That's awesome news Skarsnik, grats to Crawek once again on pushing the time even lower. Awesome.

CrAwEk

2013-08-03 03:31:30 am

I tried bsnes and BizHawk to have a emulator equivalent snes but i have a lot of lag bacause my computer is not powerful enough. I have snes(eu) with secret of evermore FR but it is 50 htz. I have no money for switch 50/60htz and buy secret of evermore US. Sorry guys!

TheAngryPanda

2013-08-03 09:33:09 am

Speed > Safety

Did you try Lsnes? I think it's based off the Bsnes core but might have some better stability for you... not entirely sure though. http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12325

The amount of difference (time wise) between console and Snes9x is extremely low, so as far as I'm concerned you're sitting on WR regardless of whether it's on console or emulator... there is not 13 seconds of difference between the two.

Also, since nobody is submitting to SDA right now with anything that's actually worth submitting (obviously my opinion) you don't really NEED to be on a console... If you plan to submit to SDA though, you'll definitely need console and recording equipment, but that's an entirely different topic that I don't know a lot about.

Regardless of all that though, I hope you keep pushing the time lower and lower. Hopefully we'll see some 1:18:30's pop up soon? Cheesy

(You might have to change the route up a bit for that)

CrAwEk

Edit history:

CrAwEk: 2013-08-03 11:07:08 am

2013-08-03 10:46:08 am

I will test Lsnes but if i have lag, I continue to practice on snes9x to offer you a very nice run of secret of evermore. Thank you for the information TheAngryPanda!

MetaSigma

Edit history:

MetaSigma: 2013-08-04 06:15:38 am

2013-08-03 01:14:12 pm

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

After speaking with the powers that be, it's up to the runners to decide how the WR is decided on console vs emulator (Their words not my own). So basically Lemon, Crawek, Hugh, Loveablelambchop, Darklink, Panda and myself (As well as the other runners...damn marathon bug is killing my mind at the moment so if I forget you my apologizes) have to basically discuss it. TSSB respects Crawek's WR and as such considering we have yet to agree on anything console vs emulator. Personally if TSSB is saying that I'm not going to counter it at this point. At some point though we all will have to sit down and figure out, discuss and all that regarding this whole thing.

All that being said grats to you Crawek as you right now hold the WR and I won't dispute this after having a discussion regarding it. I look forward to beating your time fair and square and hope you get this on console sometime soon Smiley

DLDarklink

2013-08-04 03:13:21 am

...

@ Crawek: It's really worth to play it on console, but the mod you are looking for is pricey and personally I wouldn't mod our beautiful PAL SNES Wink

On the other hand, buying a NTSC SNES is pricey too Tongue

Whenever you get the chance, save some money for either one ^^

And I agree with Meta, we should talk about the WR stuff at some point Smiley

MetaSigma

2013-08-04 06:16:54 am

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

That being said I apologize if I'm or if I have been coming across as a dick about this whole thing. Was never my intention and again Crawek has the legit WR (Till I break sub 1:19 Wink

). Again shoutouts to Crawek and may you enjoy your fame =P Cause I'm coming back with a vengeance >=3

Lemon

2013-08-04 08:46:37 am

Quote from CrAwEk:

I have snes(eu) with secret of evermore FR but it is 50 htz. I have no money for switch 50/60htz and buy secret of evermore US. Sorry guys!

The problem with that is, that if you want to submit a run to SDA it has to be on a non moded console. Just wait until you get your hands on a nice US Snes Wink

TheAngryPanda

Edit history:

TheAngryPanda: 2013-08-04 09:39:39 am

TheAngryPanda: 2013-08-04 09:38:32 am

TheAngryPanda: 2013-08-04 09:38:13 am

2013-08-04 09:37:45 am

Speed > Safety

Quote from http://speeddemosarchive.com/lang/rules_en.html:

Hardware modification: Players may not modify their consoles, with a few exceptions. The only extra or modified hardware allowed are mod chips and boot disks used for playing imports, audio/video mods to allow old systems to output in higher quality, and official add-ons, such as the Nintendo 64 Expansion Pak. For example, the PlayStation 2 HDD is allowed, whereas the HD Loader is not. Additionally, to answer a commonly-asked question: since glitches that involve pressing left and right or up and down at the same time require pressing buttons hard enough to break or circumvent the crossbar underneath d-pads, glitches that involve pressing these buttons at the same time are banned. This section only applies to consoles; PC players can feel free to bump their graphics settings up as much as they can.

I wonder where using a mod to the PAL SNES to play NTSC comes in with this rule, it's not specifically mentioned but probably should be. Has anyone asked about this specifically? I mean regardless of what happens, buying an NTSC SNES is probably the better idea just because if you decided to pick up another game you wouldn't have this issue but if you can get whatever you need to modify the console cheaper than buying a NTSC SNES it might be worth considering if the rules allow it for submission. Then again, if you don't care about submitting to SDA I guess it doesn't really matter.

Quote from DLDarklink:

And I agree with Meta, we should talk about the WR stuff at some point Smiley

We were supposed to talk about WR related issues, splits people could use for various route comparisons, and some other stuff that isn't really important now that it's been outdated by new things... It never happened though because either everyone was off doing something else/streaming or we couldn't make time to all get together and discuss it. The unfortunate side of having talented runners across multiple countries is that we simply cannot communicate all at once properly. I suppose I could create a PM and just invite everyone to it or someone else could if they wanted. If it doesn't get done soon-ish, I'll probably do it when I have some time to actually organize all the stuff related to it. We also should very clearly define 100%, any%, as well as point out what and why the PAL version can't use in it. Maybe once we're all in agreement we can post it up somewhere like the knowledge base so these things won't come up as much.

[quote="http://speeddemosarchive.com/lang/rules_en.html"]Hardware modification: Players may not modify their consoles, with a few exceptions. The only extra or modified hardware allowed are mod chips and boot disks used for playing imports, audio/video mods to allow old systems to output in higher quality, and official add-ons, such as the Nintendo 64 Expansion Pak. For example, the PlayStation 2 HDD is allowed, whereas the HD Loader is not. Additionally, to answer a commonly-asked question: since glitches that involve pressing left and right or up and down at the same time require pressing buttons hard enough to break or circumvent the crossbar underneath d-pads, glitches that involve pressing these buttons at the same time are banned. This section only applies to consoles; PC players can feel free to bump their graphics settings up as much as they can.[/quote]

I wonder where using a mod to the PAL SNES to play NTSC comes in with this rule, it's not specifically mentioned but probably should be. Has anyone asked about this specifically? I mean regardless of what happens, buying an NTSC SNES is probably the better idea just because if you decided to pick up another game you wouldn't have this issue but if you can get whatever you need to modify the console cheaper than buying a NTSC SNES it might be worth considering if the rules allow it for submission. Then again, if you don't care about submitting to SDA I guess it doesn't really matter.

[quote="DLDarklink"]And I agree with Meta, we should talk about the WR stuff at some point :)[/quote]

We were supposed to talk about WR related issues, splits people could use for various route comparisons, and some other stuff that isn't really important now that it's been outdated by new things... It never happened though because either everyone was off doing something else/streaming or we couldn't make time to all get together and discuss it. The unfortunate side of having talented runners across multiple countries is that we simply cannot communicate all at once properly. I suppose I could create a PM and just invite everyone to it or someone else could if they wanted. If it doesn't get done soon-ish, I'll probably do it when I have some time to actually organize all the stuff related to it. We also should very clearly define 100%, any%, as well as point out what and why the PAL version can't use in it. Maybe once we're all in agreement we can post it up somewhere like the knowledge base so these things won't come up as much.

MetaSigma

2013-08-04 09:41:22 pm

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

Agreed Panda, though at the same time could we just discuss it here on the SoE section? I mean that way it's available for everyone and on top of that if someone new picks up the game they can just check the forum on it and see what's considered what?

I mean from what I myself have heard
any% - self explanatory Tongue

100% - All Alchemy, All Armor, All Weapons, All Charms

Also I (And this is just so we can get as close to apples to apples comparison) would like to know how much time is gained/lost on emulator vs console. Thus that way for those that play on emulator would it be fair to add or subtract a couple of seconds if the difference isn't that great? That way at the very least again it's as close to console as possible and say emulator (This is a complete hypothesis) is 5 seconds faster and Crawek gets a 1:18:56 and I get a 1:18:58. Would it be fair to say that Crawek should add the 5 seconds to his time to make it comparable to a console time? As you've said it's only what 1 or 2 seconds? I guess has anyone actually checked over the course of a run? I believe you said Bizhawk was the closest in terms of near perfect console emulation?

Basically that's just what I'd be curious to know Smiley

Agreed Panda, though at the same time could we just discuss it here on the SoE section? I mean that way it's available for everyone and on top of that if someone new picks up the game they can just check the forum on it and see what's considered what?

I mean from what I myself have heard
any% - self explanatory :P
100% - All Alchemy, All Armor, All Weapons, All Charms

Also I (And this is just so we can get as close to apples to apples comparison) would like to know how much time is gained/lost on emulator vs console. Thus that way for those that play on emulator would it be fair to add or subtract a couple of seconds if the difference isn't that great? That way at the very least again it's as close to console as possible and say emulator (This is a complete hypothesis) is 5 seconds faster and Crawek gets a 1:18:56 and I get a 1:18:58. Would it be fair to say that Crawek should add the 5 seconds to his time to make it comparable to a console time? As you've said it's only what 1 or 2 seconds? I guess has anyone actually checked over the course of a run? I believe you said Bizhawk was the closest in terms of near perfect console emulation?

Basically that's just what I'd be curious to know :)

TheAngryPanda

Edit history:

TheAngryPanda: 2013-08-04 09:56:45 pm

2013-08-04 09:56:31 pm

Speed > Safety

From our other convo:

Also, regarding emulators since that's getting brought up now it seems. If the person is using Snes9x, you can assume there's ~1-2s of disparity max. Zsnes has an absolutely impossible disparity so it's basically thrown out the window, which is why if you practice via emu and use Zsnes it's basically giving you false results. If the person is using Bsnes, Lsnes, or Bizhawk (which is what i use), then the disparity essentially doesn't really matter as far as I'm concerned.

I really don't think there's a massive disparity anywhere, but I do know that last 3 mentioned emulate it a hell of a lot more accurately than Snes9x. Not enough to merit dismissal of times that are more than 5s apart, and that's being extremely generous. If we had two runs, one being console and one being emulator, I'd be up for comparing the two in as close to a frame by frame situation as possible.