Quake 3 Arena (!)

Edit history:

Kirua: 2016-11-19 02:25:09 am

2010-11-28 03:19:50 am

Hello,

I've been watching quite a lot of runs on SDA during the last weeks, and thought that it was a shame Q3A wasn't in the gamelist, considering Quake was the original game here. So I looked at the forum and saw that Q3A had been proposed a few times, long ago, but not really seriously. Well, let's be honest, the people who talked about running it were newbs (considering the completion times given or the difficulty chosen) and in the end, it was refused.

I'm pretty experienced with this game, to say the least, so I think I should be able to pull out something nice. But before I do that, I have a few questions, the main one being obviously : are you interested in a run for this game ? I'm aware there were some contests years ago on some websites, for individual level runs. And there was a video with all these runs together (i remember looking at it a while back and thinking the final time was pretty good, as expected from a level segmented run done by many members), like there is the Quake speedrun vid with all the level runs put together.

But I'm not interested in doing some individual level speedruns, so anyway it's not the same category as what existed. Some levels could clearly be improved imho but I'm just not interested in it. What I was planning to do was a single segment for the whole game in nightmare difficulty (the only one worth watching).

I know you wouldn't refuse the game because of the "skirmish bot killing" aspect, as it's the same as a Super Smash Bros run in the end, but maybe you're not interested in a single segment for a game that you may think more suited for individual level runs.

If you're interested, I have two more questions, although i'm pretty sure i know the answers. Would the OSP mod (which was used in every q3 tournament) be accepted (i guess not) or has it to be played in baseq3 (defaut Q3). I can do it in baseq3 but it'll need some readaptation obviously, so i just have to know Smiley

Other thing is, can the textures and fov (customised cfg basically) be modified via the console (i guess yes, for this one, as it's pretty much a feature and a basic thing to do for this game) or has it to be defaut textures settings ?

If this is accepted, I'm not planning to do it until january or february probably (IRL job related issues, won't have so much time until then), but i ask all these things in advance so i can know !

Thanks in advance for reading this long and tedious post

Thread title:

Hello,

I've been watching quite a lot of runs on SDA during the last weeks, and thought that it was a shame Q3A wasn't in the gamelist, considering Quake was the original game here. So I looked at the forum and saw that Q3A had been proposed a few times, long ago, but not really seriously. Well, let's be honest, the people who talked about running it were newbs (considering the completion times given or the difficulty chosen) and in the end, it was refused.

I'm pretty experienced with this game, to say the least, so I think I should be able to pull out something nice. But before I do that, I have a few questions, the main one being obviously : are you interested in a run for this game ? I'm aware there were some contests years ago on some websites, for individual level runs. And there was a video with all these runs together (i remember looking at it a while back and thinking the final time was pretty good, as expected from a level segmented run done by many members), like there is the Quake speedrun vid with all the level runs put together.

But I'm not interested in doing some individual level speedruns, so anyway it's not the same category as what existed. Some levels could clearly be improved imho but I'm just not interested in it. What I was planning to do was a single segment for the whole game in nightmare difficulty (the only one worth watching).

I know you wouldn't refuse the game because of the "skirmish bot killing" aspect, as it's the same as a Super Smash Bros run in the end, but maybe you're not interested in a single segment for a game that you may think more suited for individual level runs.

If you're interested, I have two more questions, although i'm pretty sure i know the answers. Would the OSP mod (which was used in every q3 tournament) be accepted (i guess not) or has it to be played in baseq3 (defaut Q3). I can do it in baseq3 but it'll need some readaptation obviously, so i just have to know :)

Other thing is, can the textures and fov (customised cfg basically) be modified via the console (i guess yes, for this one, as it's pretty much a feature and a basic thing to do for this game) or has it to be defaut textures settings ?

If this is accepted, I'm not planning to do it until january or february probably (IRL job related issues, won't have so much time until then), but i ask all these things in advance so i can know !

Thanks in advance for reading this long and tedious post

ShadowWraith

2010-11-28 06:18:45 am

.

The issue with Q3A is that it's an incredibly boring game to watch. You camp spawns, the end. There was a run put together before and it was just plain dull.

You won't be allowed to use OSP, however the customised cfg sounds okay so long as you're not making the game work differently.

moooh

2010-11-28 06:59:13 am

Exoray

I guess it'll be kinda the same as runs of fighting games, some find it repetitive and boring to watch while others still enjoy seeing runs of it.

A single segment of this might be interesting, we're expecting a run without deaths of course Wink

Kirua

Edit history:

Kirua: 2010-11-28 07:33:56 am

2010-11-28 07:31:13 am

Well ShadowWraith, although it's true that spawn fragging is essential, you can't camp only one spawn and spam it or something, maybe on a few maps, but it would depend on your intention to die or not to, and if you're not lucky with the spawns, it would be slower. It's faster if you move quickly to reach the spawns, in a single segment. Obviously, you can try to have luck by doing it again and again until the bot spawns at the same place, but it won't work on 25 levels in a row or something (i don't remember the exact number). That's the reason I didn't want to do an individual level run, because you do it over and over again until the bot spawns most of the time at the same place, and yes it's dull !

I thought a single segment with no death or almost no death (i think it's nearly impossible not to die on one map in particular) could be action packed and fun, but obviously i won't do it if you think it's boring Smiley

Ewil

2010-11-28 08:31:56 am

Here's the video you were talking about: http://www.quakeunity.com/file=1271

Single-segment sounds interesting for me, I may even try it as well as I'm also pretty experienced in this game myself.

I think that no deaths is nearly impossible in SS if you're aiming for speed, especially in the very last level.

And yeah, no OSP/CPMA, just config.

Kirua

2010-11-28 08:54:17 am

Actually, I don't think the last level (xaero) is the hardest, his patterns are easily exploitables. I was thinking about dm17, as Major tends to shoot you with >70% machinegun wherever you are on the map. But apparently, he managed to play the whole map without being focused by Major, so maybe you just need to never shoot her, or maybe it's because of some version, i think the oldest patchs are the easiest... I've not tested anything yet so i don't know.

I agree that it's nearly impossible to be quick in SS and never die, but here's lies the challenge. Anyway, two categories are possible i guess, with and without deaths, if someone manages. It can't be harder than a no death run on Metal Slug 3 Smiley

Although as i said previously, even if i would like to perform a speed run of something, if the SDA staff thinks Q3A is too boring, i'll probably find something else.

ridd3r.

2010-11-28 10:16:43 am

we have lift off

Quote from Kirua:

but obviously i won't do it if you think it's boring Smiley

If you want to do the run then do it, what SDA staff think of your run is irrelevant; runs are accepted on grounds of gameplay and planning, not whether it's interesting or not. There will be plenty of people who will find any run boring so if all runners went by that logic no run would ever be done. I'm sure plenty of people would check this run out.

Kirua

2010-11-28 10:21:57 am

Ok, thanks for the insight ! I'm new to SDA so i'm not yet aware of such things, I didn't want to be a bother with my idea Smiley

But yeah, I think I'll see what I can do about this single segment idea.

ridd3r.

2010-11-28 10:24:02 am

we have lift off

yeah go for it, i'll give it a watch Smiley

Gombill

2010-11-28 01:39:54 pm

I would watch. Given my own skills at the game (which are almost nonexistent), you would catch my attention with anything less than 10 deaths for the entire game. I play on hardcore most of the time, and even then I think I've gotten less than 10 perfects (no deaths) ever! Probably half of those on Crash too.

Can't wait to see this! I agree with the comment about Major. For some reason on nightmare, major has insane machinegun accuracy that trumps all if she can get her eyes on you. I would accept the run just on the grounds of having a deathless Longest Yard if it does (regardless of the quality of the rest of the levels!)

sarou

2010-12-03 03:09:19 am

one-armed bandit

I hope you go for it. Q3 isn't the optimal speedrunning game but hell I'd watch it.

Also welcome to SDA, I bet you have no idea who I am (played in dlx under different handle) but I think we used to play in the same CTF EC wayy back, like in '05. How do I remember that? Well, your nick somehow stuck me and you set your location to paris so I thought you just might be one of those french guys who used to play Q3 competetively.

Kirua

Edit history:

Kirua: 2016-11-19 02:29:08 am

Kirua: 2010-12-03 06:46:00 am

2010-12-03 06:44:46 am

Well yeah actually, I've decided to go for it, even if I didn't post anything in this thread about it ! Smiley

But I was gonna to, after a few more tests, so that this thread didn't look like I had given up on it.

So yeah, during the past few days, I've actually started to test a few things, and I'm still experimenting with the versions actually (trying to see if there's an important difference between original Q3 version (which is 1.11) and the last one, 1.32c). I had a little hardware issue as I'm currently using a LCD widescreen and the available Q3 resolutions aren't compatible, so I brought back my old 19' 4/3.

As for the run itself, I have to admit it's way harder than what I remembered. The levels I feared the most are sometimes actually easy compared to obscure ones I had forgotten. Overall, after running the game two times, I think the difficulty is as follow :

- 50% of the levels should be relatively easy 0 death, so I'll have to optimize speed.
- 30% of the levels : one or two death every time I tried at the moment, it'll need some improvement both in efficiency and speed, but nothing that I can't handle.
- 20% of the levels : many deaths on each try at the moment (considering I want to camp as less as possible). I won't be able to optimize speed a lot on these levels, and I'll need to find some serious routine improvements. Really hard work needed on these ones, but I guess I'll manage somehow.

The thing is, there are a lot of random factors making this game obviously difficult to speed run. No matter how many times you train the levels, improvisation is required (which is cool). So it'll take way more time than I first imagined (i guess it's the same for every speedrunner for every game), because not only training each level should be long, but managing to record a nice single segment without a single death will be a real nightmare.

*edit: Stop memeing bjw* And yeah, I've played a lot of eurocups and nationcups on Q3, so i'm indeed the Kirua you were thinking about ! I think I remember your nickname too (dlx) but i'm a bit confused because I think there's a team called dlx from Finland, and you seem to be from Finland too, so the coincidence is weird.

Thanks for your interest anyway !

Well yeah actually, I've decided to go for it, even if I didn't post anything in this thread about it ! :) But I was gonna to, after a few more tests, so that this thread didn't look like I had given up on it.

So yeah, during the past few days, I've actually started to test a few things, and I'm still experimenting with the versions actually (trying to see if there's an important difference between original Q3 version (which is 1.11) and the last one, 1.32c). I had a little hardware issue as I'm currently using a LCD widescreen and the available Q3 resolutions aren't compatible, so I brought back my old 19' 4/3.

As for the run itself, I have to admit it's way harder than what I remembered. The levels I feared the most are sometimes actually easy compared to obscure ones I had forgotten. Overall, after running the game two times, I think the difficulty is as follow :

- 50% of the levels should be relatively easy 0 death, so I'll have to optimize speed.
- 30% of the levels : one or two death every time I tried at the moment, it'll need some improvement both in efficiency and speed, but nothing that I can't handle.
- 20% of the levels : many deaths on each try at the moment (considering I want to camp as less as possible). I won't be able to optimize speed a lot on these levels, and I'll need to find some serious routine improvements. Really hard work needed on these ones, but I guess I'll manage somehow.

The thing is, there are a lot of random factors making this game obviously difficult to speed run. No matter how many times you train the levels, improvisation is required (which is cool). So it'll take way more time than I first imagined (i guess it's the same for every speedrunner for every game), because not only training each level should be long, but managing to record a nice single segment without a single death will be a real nightmare.

*edit: Stop memeing bjw* And yeah, I've played a lot of eurocups and nationcups on Q3, so i'm indeed the Kirua you were thinking about ! I think I remember your nickname too (dlx) but i'm a bit confused because I think there's a team called dlx from Finland, and you seem to be from Finland too, so the coincidence is weird.

Thanks for your interest anyway !

Ewil

2010-12-03 07:15:59 am

I recall it was possible to do splash damage through catwalks like in tourney4 in some older versions. Wouldn't make much difference though.

sarou

Edit history:

sarou: 2010-12-03 07:48:02 am

sarou: 2010-12-03 07:46:54 am

sarou: 2010-12-03 07:46:35 am

2010-12-03 07:45:00 am

one-armed bandit

Yeah, it was possible. Actually in rocket arena it worked through solid walls too. Also there was a pummel bug that worked in older versions of ra3 that if you held down the attack button (while equipped with pummel) and then died or the round ended, (still holding on to that attack button) after respawning you could actually one shot everything with your pummel and they would fly like a mile away if they got hit. The only downside was that you couldn't jump thus making it really hard to actually hit someone. As long as you held on to that attack button the bug was active. In OSP this doesn't work because you always respawn with machinegun. Don't know about some of the older versions of vQ3

Kirua: I mean I played in the team called dlx.

Scorpio

2010-12-03 08:51:00 am

Watcher

I would be also interested in watching this run. It can be pretty fun, I think Smiley

atomicJo

2010-12-03 11:28:33 am

I'm interested too !

Kirua

2010-12-03 03:25:45 pm

Oh ok sarou, my bad, so I remember your team, but not your nick, sorry Sad

I'm really terrible at recalling nicknames though !

The damage through floors isn't very useful against bots on normal maps. Unlike ra3, there aren't many maps where you're below a floor where it's possible/useful to do it. The main map where this type of damage was used was tourney4, but against Anarki, it's just about staying on the upper level and raping him in 40s or something. There is actually an other bug that I know on t4 (basically if you pummel in the air while looking at a certain light, you can register a hit on doors at the bottom level, this is weird) but then again, it can't be used to save some time.

Thanks again to the people answering for your interest, I hope I won't disappoint you. I'll try to polish this run as much as possible Smiley

I'll post updates if I think I can tell about interesting developments.

Ewil

2010-12-03 03:34:50 pm

I once managed to do a similar bug with pummel in pdm6. I was pummelling on the railgun walkway and I fragged a guy right below me in that area with shards Smiley

Just a little off-topic.

Kirua

2010-12-03 03:41:53 pm

Oh actually now that you talk about it, i think it happened to me at the same spot too ! I guess there are other spots, but i don't know them or remember them. Not that it's a very useful bug :p

sarou

Edit history:

sarou: 2010-12-04 12:23:06 am

sarou: 2010-12-04 12:23:03 am

sarou: 2010-12-04 12:21:02 am

2010-12-04 12:20:35 am

one-armed bandit

Those pdm6 pummel frags are weird. I've seen several of them in some frag movies :p. There's also the bounce glitch, if you fall into a narrow corner, you will actually launch high up in the air. It happened to me several times but I don't really know the reason behind it.

Kirua

2010-12-04 07:34:38 am

The bounce glitch (overbounce) is a bug related to specific heights when you fall still. So basically, you can do it from anything higher than the required height if you keep a vertical momentum at the right moment. It's one of the basic tools of players who compete in the defrag mod and those who make trickjumping videos.

quadrazid

2010-12-04 07:37:27 am

Svart Lyser Tronen

I'd love to see a single-segment of Q3, go for it!

InsipidMuckyWater

2010-12-04 05:37:22 pm

Visit my profile to see my runs!

^ Ditto! Runs of under-appreciated games rock. Thus, you rock. Good luck on this.

Fyourics

2010-12-06 06:32:36 am

I am afraid no ones riding nothing!!!

I'm interested in this. Do it.

Kirua

2010-12-20 08:04:13 pm

A little update to show that I'm in training, here and there, when I get the opportunity (I work a lot recently so I don't get the time to train and find routes every day, but this phase is progressing, little by little). I don't know why but the print screen key doesn't work with Q3 so I have to take a screenshot using the console, and half of the screen is hidden by the console... :

The green award on the left is the number of perfects (winning a level without dying) I got so far. Considering there are 26 levels, it gives a slight idea of how much I've trained. But have in mind that I restart the levels a lot, and when you restart a level, the awards don't add up. So the number of frags (number on the far right) is far bigger, etc.

I think I have some strong routes for approximately half of the levels so far. When I say strong routes, I mean that I developped strategies to decrease the possibility of dying by remaining pretty fast. It's never certain, obviously, and there's for example a level where I think I have 50 or 60% chances to succeed, even after optimizing a lot and using one of the best strategies possible. I have to rethink nearly all the levels as the previous speedruns on Q3 were done level by level and, not only do they die in some levels (there's even a record on a level with two deaths I think), but they always take very huge risks that I can't afford to take in a single segment "so long" (26 levels without dying is quite a lot).

When I'll feel that I have strong routes for all the levels, I'll start attempting a single segment.

A little update to show that I'm in training, here and there, when I get the opportunity (I work a lot recently so I don't get the time to train and find routes every day, but this phase is progressing, little by little). I don't know why but the print screen key doesn't work with Q3 so I have to take a screenshot using the console, and half of the screen is hidden by the console... :

[hidden]
[img]http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/9507/shot0000h.jpg[/img]
[/hidden]

The green award on the left is the number of perfects (winning a level without dying) I got so far. Considering there are 26 levels, it gives a slight idea of how much I've trained. But have in mind that I restart the levels a lot, and when you restart a level, the awards don't add up. So the number of frags (number on the far right) is far bigger, etc.

I think I have some strong routes for approximately half of the levels so far. When I say strong routes, I mean that I developped strategies to decrease the possibility of dying by remaining pretty fast. It's never certain, obviously, and there's for example a level where I think I have 50 or 60% chances to succeed, even after optimizing a lot and using one of the best strategies possible. I have to rethink nearly all the levels as the previous speedruns on Q3 were done level by level and, not only do they die in some levels (there's even a record on a level with two deaths I think), but they always take very huge risks that I can't afford to take in a single segment "so long" (26 levels without dying is quite a lot).

When I'll feel that I have strong routes for all the levels, I'll start attempting a single segment.