Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time (Gamecube any% and 100%)

2011-10-12 01:14:22 pm

F*ckin' sanity effects...

Just want to say I'm following this thread with great interest.

SoT is clearly the best of the games and WW clearly the worst IMO, but TTT I actually think the stealth gameplay is pretty fun, and keeps the focus on the platforming/puzzles, where it belongs. It also salvages the Prince's character (which was completely unlikable in the second game), and rounds the story out nicely, although new-Farah's in-game model and voice actress are awful (when did she become white, FFS?!...although you could really ask why the Prince of Persia is a sandy-haired British dude...and then a dark-haired British dude).

I'm continually amazed at the shortcuts you guys keep finding. Can't wait for more!

mikwuyma

2011-10-12 01:25:35 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

UCPro: No, I haven't tried your new method for the button yet. I was just saying that's what I was trying to do when I was trying to figure out how to get through that area without using the rewind trick.

UCpro

2011-10-14 01:49:18 am

wow, so i just figured out what causes fast rewinds and slow rewinds. So simple too. To get a fast rewind you hold down the joystick in any direction. To get a slow rewind you don't touch the joystick at all. CAN'T BELIEVE I DIDN'T REALIZE THIS SOONER!!! Anyways, knowing this will probably lead to more consistent methods for pulling off the rewind trick. Too late to test right now, but i think certain combinations of fast/slow rewinds work better than others for pulling off the trick (like doing a fast rewind on the last rewind of the extended wallrun to reach the button). Also, camera angle is a HUGE part of the success of pulling these off. I know i've mentioned that before, but i can't stress it enough. Can't wait to do more testing with these slow/fast rewind combinations!! If we figure out how to do rewind tricks more consistently because of this, we will be able to put more in a SS run....that's exciting!

UCpro

2011-10-22 04:47:34 pm

Sweet new speed trick...saves 4-6 seconds depending on how you do the normal route, but is kind of difficult to get the timing right.

Oh, and i timed the difference between rolling up stairs vs. wallrunning up stairs. Wallrunning is definitely faster. That long staircase in the mess hall after you meet up with Farah takes 4.4 seconds to roll up. It takes 3.9 seconds to wallrun up. So....i'll continue to wall run in my run.

The one method for turning around first on a pole and then swing-jumping off is 0.6 seconds faster than starting the swing and then rotating and then jumping off.....just wanted to confirm the actual time savings with that.

Reaver

2011-10-22 05:05:48 pm

Hmmm thats strange. Perhaps the staircase I timed it over was too short.

Reaver

2011-10-23 04:20:00 pm

Yes it seems that the shortness of that particular staircase caused a longer timing for the wall run due to the falling animation to the floor of the wallrun when compared to rolling. Using the staircase at the top of the mess hall I measured it about half a second faster to wallrun so you were right.

I've mentioned before that turning around on the pole then swinging to jump off saved about half a second in a previous post somewhere.

Nice trick by the way. I had recently found that you could jump to the higher ledge in that part if you got the positioning right and managed to jump whilst the platform was still moving, but your method is far quicker.

UCpro

2011-10-25 01:23:50 am

Yes, this is new method is quicker, but i probably wont put it in the run. It's somewhat difficult, and is a little too high-risk being at the end of a difficult segment.

By the way, i've been quite busy with work and life in general, so i haven't had much time to work on this game. But all i have to do is practice consistency on a few things and i'm set to record when i have some free time....hopefully some time this year Smiley

mikwuyma

Edit history:

mikwuyma: 2011-10-27 07:11:38 am

2011-10-27 07:10:25 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

So here's a thoroughly useless glitch I found, have fun! I actually took a video of this glitch weeks ago, but I didn't upload it to youtube until yesterday.

UCpro

Edit history:

UCpro: 2011-10-28 12:04:18 am

2011-10-28 12:01:38 am

It would be really interesting if we could get this zombie glitch to work with the cutscene where the prince falls into the prison. It may be possible using the rewind trick off the ledge (the one about 10 seconds before triggering the cutscene) to get in position where you can jump and then trigger the cutscene during your "death fall animation". I played around with this a little looking for a way to skip the prison section, but never tested to see if this zombie glitch would work.

If we COULD get that to work it would make the prison part really easy, but not really useful beyond that. Interesting find though Mike. I wonder if you could still use it effectively in that spot you showed by killing all but one of the enemies in the baths and then drink water, then kill the last enemy. Save, and then start up the next segment (i'm thinking in terms of a segmented run btw). I don't know if it would be easier to get a faster fight in the baths using this glitch or not. It doesn't take any time to activate the glitch.

I found it interesting that the bats still looked like there were going to attack you while in the hall of learning. You're still "dead" at that point...wonder why they were going to attack when other enemies did not?

It would be really interesting if we could get this zombie glitch to work with the cutscene where the prince falls into the prison.  It may be possible using the rewind trick off the ledge (the one about 10 seconds before triggering the cutscene) to get in position where you can jump and then trigger the cutscene during your "death fall animation".  I played around with this a little looking for a way to skip the prison section, but never tested to see if this zombie glitch would work.

If we COULD get that to work it would make the prison part really easy, but not really useful beyond that.  Interesting find though Mike.  I wonder if you could still use it effectively in that spot you showed by killing all but one of the enemies in the baths and then drink water, then kill the last enemy. Save, and then start up the next segment (i'm thinking in terms of a segmented run btw).  I don't know if it would be easier to get a faster fight in the baths using this glitch or not.  It doesn't take any time to activate the glitch.

I found it interesting that the bats still looked like there were going to attack you while in the hall of learning.  You're still "dead" at that point...wonder why they were going to attack when other enemies did not?

Reaver

2011-10-28 05:39:20 am

Two questions:

Did you try moving the statue to see if Farah would through sooner as all the sand monsters were ignoring you in the baths. Also what happens when you drink water?

A few pages back I posted an alternate route in the hall of learning where you use the wallrun trick to run up a bookcase where a sound cloud is at the top. You can get to the ropes without taking damage that way.

I was thinking if you can progress without taking damage, then drink water at somepoint further along the game, it may start registering your checkpoints and saves again.

Reaver

Edit history:

Reaver: 2011-10-28 05:46:04 am

2011-10-28 05:43:45 am

FIXED

Two questions:

In the baths, did you ever try moving the statue to see if Farah would go through sooner as all the sand monsters were ignoring you. Also what happens when you drink water?

A few pages back I posted an alternate route in the hall of learning where you use the wallrun higher trick to run up a bookcase where a sand cloud is at the top. You can get to the ropes without taking damage using that route.

I was thinking if you can progress without taking damage, then drink water at some point further along the game, it may start registering your checkpoints and saves again.

mikwuyma

2011-10-28 05:57:27 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

No, I never tried moving the statue, though I would assume the same thing would happen that happens in all SS runs (Farah stands still after the the battle is over). The glitch is over once you drink water, because it only works when your life is at zero. And yes, the game starts registering checkpoints and saves once you drink water.

Also, I must have missed this alternate route, because I don't remember seeing the video. What page is it on?

Reaver

Edit history:

Reaver: 2011-10-28 07:18:23 am

2011-10-28 07:17:24 am

Repost from page 10

~3 mins into the vid.

Perhaps it is partially useful if you can progress far enough without fighting enemies then drink some water.

mikwuyma

2011-11-04 12:00:03 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Okay UCPro I calculated how much time the saves take up and it's around 4:10-4:15, not the five minutes I once thought, which means the 1:51:39 I got would be more like a 1:47:2x if I didn't save. I still think at least a minute and a half or two minutes could be taken off the run so I'm thinking 1:45:xx is a good goal time for a single-segment with the current tricks I use.

You said you wouldn't mind watching the run again to give me some advice, so here it is in two parts.

part 1: http://www.twitch.tv/mikwuyma/b/299147366

part 2: http://www.twitch.tv/mikwuyma/b/299147993

Also, a good blooper I had during the run: http://www.twitch.tv/mikwuyma/b/299142142

And one that happened during a different set of attempts: http://www.twitch.tv/mikwuyma/b/299141592

UCpro

2011-11-04 12:30:18 pm

yeah, i actually calculated all the saves myself and came up with 4:20. So youre right that your run would have been about 1:47:20.

Ill watch it this weekend and point out stuff you could still do differently....a few things come to mind.

I also agree that 1:45:xx is a good goal for SS. Your run did have a few spots of big improvement, but you also had some seriously good luck on a bunch of spots (during the second half of the run that i saw live).

mikwuyma

2011-11-04 01:35:31 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

When you see my battle right before the Sultan's menagerie save, you'll agree that my luck in the first half of the run was just as good, if not better.

UCpro

Edit history:

UCpro: 2011-11-05 01:44:21 am

UCpro: 2011-11-05 01:39:56 am

UCpro: 2011-11-05 01:24:18 am

UCpro: 2011-11-05 01:12:08 am

UCpro: 2011-11-05 12:29:33 am

UCpro: 2011-11-05 12:27:50 am

UCpro: 2011-11-05 12:21:38 am

UCpro: 2011-11-04 11:54:06 pm

UCpro: 2011-11-04 11:39:14 pm

2011-11-04 11:12:27 pm

OK, i'm starting to watch your run Mike. I'll keep updating this post with comments as i go through it. I'll also keep track of the big mistakes and how much time they cost.....i'd like to get an accurate estimate for a "perfect" or "close to flawless" SS run time (i wont track little 1 second mistakes)

0:39 - how consistent are you with this wallrun? should be automatic Smiley

(-7 sec)
4:01 - i want to work a lot on finding a more consistent method for DoT skip (-20 sec)
9:13 - (-5 sec)
11:05 - i want to look into more consistent ways to do this rewind trick....
21:40 - good father battle...some bad luck with the prince's father blocking a few times, but that's not terrible.
24:12 - (-6 sec) ....watch my segment again. Roll when you fall down off the pole...saves some life.
26:59 (-3 sec)
28:37-28:57 - this jump is tricky....i struggle with it too. (-20 sec)
30:00 - nice
31:07 - not sure how much time lost here by not hitting all 3 birds. Should do some testing like you said to figure out how to get that consistently. (probably - 15 sec)
32:20 - if you take a second or so to set up that shortcut you should be able to get it every time. just practice it a bit (-4 sec)
33:07 - (-4 sec)
32:42 - (-4 sec)
36:03 - you can jump to the palm tree at 36:03 instead of 36:04 like you did.
36:15 - hit right twice a little earlier than you did, you hit right twice too late. If you got that jump you would saved 7 seconds in this run (wouldn't have got hit by the bird Smiley

) But i wouldn't factor in that time because it's not something too consistent.
37:55 - watch my decent segment 6 attempt again. try to do this part EXACTLY like i do (move the camera when i do, roll when i do, etc...) then wait for Farah and enter the mess hall when you see her.
38:45 - you can jump to the pole at 38:45 instead of 38:47 (-2 seconds)
39:37 - if Farah doesn't follow you, wallrun up the wall to the right of you at 39:37 and sometimes that will trigger her to follow you.
40:02 - hahahahahaha (-30 sec)
41:36 - just bad luck....again, this is another spot i want to practice for consistency (- 40 sec)
42:27 - unless someone can figure out a consistent way to do that cutscene skip, i'm not going to put it in a ss run (-7 seconds for attempting it in your run)
43:25 - jump from the ledge to the platform at 43:25 instead of 43:26 and it will set you up better for that jump shortcut. (-16 sec for missing that jump)
44:04 - wow that was crazy fast....
45:21 - should've dagger stabbed the last guy. (-3 sec)
45:42 - for a SS run, i think this mess hall skip is mandatory. I know getting sand from the enemies in the mess hall gets you haste for sure for the observatory, but with good fight strats you should be able to get haste for the observatory even while skipping the mess hall fight. (i'm gonna say you would've saved 1:32 if you did the mess hall skip....that's factoring out the time it took to save since i'm putting that into the 4:20 lost from ALL the saves) (-1:32)
49:06 - yeah, your execution was sloppy on that scaffold jump. should be automatic Smiley

(-18 sec)
49:36 - (-3 sec) Smiley

51:42 - (-3 sec) Smiley

53:09 - don't do that for a SS run. it's not consistent at all. (-5 sec for failed attempt)

So....at the bridge save i count a little over 5 minutes of improvements (outside of the saves). Again, this is if you do the mess hall skip and perform the whole run close to perfect.

55:18 - jump to the column at 55:18 instead of 55:20 ....the game auto aims there really well. (-2 sec)
55:49 - (-10 seconds for the few rewinds and getting the sand tank)
55:59 - (-3 sec for not getting the wallrun into the cutscene) Actually this whole part was sloppy, but you were scrambling trying to figure out how to do the shortcut coming up Smiley

(i'll say -5 sec for that whole part)
56:43 - (-10 for missed cutscene skip) I actually have a new idea for a better way to do this shortcut...i'll test it out later and let you know if its good or not.
1:01:10 - lol, sorry
1:01:49 - you can jump from that ladder into the water instead of taking it all the way down...saves a second or so
1:03:12 - awesome job with that rewind trick!
1:13:26 - i have a few things i want to test that could prevent farah from ever falling into the spikes during this part...i want to solve the game over loop possibility at this part before doing ss attempts.
1:15:13 - again, good job using rewind to save farah
1:16:48 - a little mess up with not activating haste right when you got it. (probably cost 10 sec)
1:19:46 - dont worry about doing that wallrun into the cutscene.
1:20:14 - just roll into that cutscene...the wallrun doesnt really save much time.
1:21:06 - amazing luck with that stupid tree!!
1:21:20 - again, this is a spot where if you took a second to line up the jump, it would be worth it even with a little setup time (-7 sec)
1:25:30 - dagger stabbing the last guy at some point is always a good thing if you can do it.
1:26:12 - lol (-22 sec)
1:28:29 - just practice this wallrun more and it will get easier. (-31 sec)
1:29:11 - lost some time at the beginning of moving the block (-12 sec) yeah, just watch my video on this part again.
1:30:03 - im not sure...just luck i suppose
1:34:22 - missed wallrun and jump (-8 sec)
Again, nice final save battle. Overall, the fights in this run were pretty good...very very acceptable for a SS submittable run.

Ok, for the second half of the game i added the total improvements i noted and it was basically 2 minutes. So, that's 7 minutes of improvements for the whole run (and that's not counting a whole lot of little 1-2 seconds improvements i didn't note). Adding those improvements together with the time saved from not saving, and a near-perfect SS run would be a 1:39:xx. I think a few modifications in the route can still be made. For a 1:40-1:45 ss run i think it would be acceptable to have 2-3 minutes of mistakes/improvements. So i think a 1:42:xx is a good target time for a SS run, or even a low 1:43.

Again, great job on the 1:51! It was a nice benchmark run for calculating the optimal 1:39:xx SS time.

OK, i'm starting to watch your run Mike.  I'll keep updating this post with comments as i go through it.  I'll also keep track of the big mistakes and how much time they cost.....i'd like to get an accurate estimate for a "perfect" or "close to flawless" SS run time (i wont track little 1 second mistakes)

0:39 - how consistent are you with this wallrun?  should be automatic :) (-7 sec)
4:01 - i want to work a lot on finding a more consistent method for DoT skip (-20 sec)
9:13 - (-5 sec)
11:05 - i want to look into more consistent ways to do this rewind trick....
21:40 - good father battle...some bad luck with the prince's father blocking a few times, but that's not terrible.
24:12 - (-6 sec) ....watch my segment again.  Roll when you fall down off the pole...saves some life.
26:59 (-3 sec)
28:37-28:57 - this jump is tricky....i struggle with it too. (-20 sec)
30:00 - nice
31:07 - not sure how much time lost here by not hitting all 3 birds.  Should do some testing like you said to figure out how to get that consistently.  (probably - 15 sec)
32:20 - if you take a second or so to set up that shortcut you should be able to get it every time. just practice it a bit (-4 sec)
33:07 - (-4 sec)
32:42 - (-4 sec)
36:03 - you can jump to the palm tree at 36:03 instead of 36:04 like you did.
36:15 - hit right twice a little earlier than you did, you hit right twice too late.  If you got that jump you would saved 7 seconds in this run (wouldn't have got hit by the bird :) )  But i wouldn't factor in that time because it's not something too consistent. 
37:55 - watch my decent segment 6 attempt again.  try to do this part EXACTLY like i do (move the camera when i do, roll when i do, etc...) then wait for Farah and enter the mess hall when you see her.
38:45 - you can jump to the pole at 38:45 instead of 38:47 (-2 seconds)
39:37 - if Farah doesn't follow you, wallrun up the wall to the right of you at 39:37 and sometimes that will trigger her to follow you.
40:02 - hahahahahaha (-30 sec)
41:36 - just bad luck....again, this is another spot i want to practice for consistency (- 40 sec)
42:27 - unless someone can figure out a consistent way to do that cutscene skip, i'm not going to put it in a ss run (-7 seconds for attempting it in your run)
43:25 - jump from the ledge to the platform at 43:25 instead of 43:26 and it will set you up better for that jump shortcut.  (-16 sec for missing that jump)
44:04 - wow that was crazy fast....
45:21 - should've dagger stabbed the last guy. (-3 sec)
45:42 - for a SS run, i think this mess hall skip is mandatory.  I know getting sand from the enemies in the mess hall gets you haste for sure for the observatory, but with good fight strats you should be able to get haste for the observatory even while skipping the mess hall fight.  (i'm gonna say you would've saved 1:32 if you did the mess hall skip....that's factoring out the time it took to save since i'm putting that into the 4:20 lost from ALL the saves) (-1:32)
49:06 - yeah, your execution was sloppy on that scaffold jump. should be automatic :) (-18 sec)
49:36 - (-3 sec) :)
51:42 - (-3 sec) :)
53:09 - don't do that for a SS run.  it's not consistent at all. (-5 sec for failed attempt)

So....at the bridge save i count a little over 5 minutes of improvements (outside of the saves).  Again, this is if you do the mess hall skip and perform the whole run close to perfect.

55:18 - jump to the column at 55:18 instead of 55:20 ....the game auto aims there really well. (-2 sec)
55:49 - (-10 seconds for the few rewinds and getting the sand tank)
55:59 - (-3 sec for not getting the wallrun into the cutscene) Actually this whole part was sloppy, but you were scrambling trying to figure out how to do the shortcut coming up :) (i'll say -5 sec for that whole part)
56:43 - (-10 for missed cutscene skip)  I actually have a new idea for a better way to do this shortcut...i'll test it out later and let you know if its good or not.
1:01:10 - lol, sorry
1:01:49 - you can jump from that ladder into the water instead of taking it all the way down...saves a second or so
1:03:12 - awesome job with that rewind trick!
1:13:26 - i have a few things i want to test that could prevent farah from ever falling into the spikes during this part...i want to solve the game over loop possibility at this part before doing ss attempts.
1:15:13 - again, good job using rewind to save farah
1:16:48 - a little mess up with not activating haste right when you got it.  (probably cost 10 sec)
1:19:46 - dont worry about doing that wallrun into the cutscene.
1:20:14 - just roll into that cutscene...the wallrun doesnt really save much time.
1:21:06 - amazing luck with that stupid tree!!
1:21:20 - again, this is a spot where if you took a second to line up the jump, it would be worth it even with a little setup time (-7 sec)
1:25:30 - dagger stabbing the last guy at some point is always a good thing if you can do it.
1:26:12 - lol (-22 sec)
1:28:29 - just practice this wallrun more and it will get easier.  (-31 sec)
1:29:11 - lost some time at the beginning of moving the block (-12 sec) yeah, just watch my video on this part again.
1:30:03 - im not sure...just luck i suppose
1:34:22 - missed wallrun and jump (-8 sec)
Again, nice final save battle.  Overall, the fights in this run were pretty good...very very acceptable for a SS submittable run.

Ok, for the second half of the game i added the total improvements i noted and it was basically 2 minutes.  So, that's 7 minutes of improvements for the whole run (and that's not counting a whole lot of little 1-2 seconds improvements i didn't note).  Adding those improvements together with the time saved from not saving, and a near-perfect SS run would be a 1:39:xx.  I think a few modifications in the route can still be made.  For a 1:40-1:45 ss run i think it would be acceptable to have 2-3 minutes of mistakes/improvements.  So i think a 1:42:xx is a good target time for a SS run, or even a low 1:43.

Again, great job on the 1:51!  It was a nice benchmark run for calculating the optimal 1:39:xx SS time.

mikwuyma

Edit history:

mikwuyma: 2011-11-05 10:39:33 am

mikwuyma: 2011-11-05 10:38:58 am

mikwuyma: 2011-11-05 10:38:25 am

mikwuyma: 2011-11-05 10:37:44 am

2011-11-05 10:37:13 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

0:39 - pretty consistent. That was one of two times I've ever done that horizontal wallrun. :-/ I'll just restart if I don't get that wall run by the second try (or maybe even first try), and I would definitely restart if I got that horizontal wallrun.

4:01 - That would be cool, but I'm not sure how you would do that.

11:05 - Yeah, that's something I want to try out before doing serious SS attempts of this game.

21:40 - Yeah the battle was pretty good aside from really bad luck with the prince's father blocking.

24:12 - Huh, never noticed that. Do you mash A, or do you time it as you hit the ground? Getting that roll would make the diagonal jump a lot easier too.

28:37 - Yeah, it seems like I need to do a perfectly diagonal jump from the corner of the box.

30:00 - Yeah, I'm not sure how much time I saved here, but it was at least 10+ seconds. Also, I've had attempts where the camera was never focused on Farah, but one of the stone guys warped towards her anyway. It seems to happen more often when I kill the guy at the bottom of the stairs first, hmmmmmm. Definitely need to research this a bit.

31:07 - I'm 99% sure this is based on proximity, because when I hit both birds, I'm always closer than I was this attempt. I just didn't want to freeze the game like last time, but I know I could at least be a couple of steps closer and not risk a freeze. Oh, and it is at least 15 seconds wasted not getting both birds at once.

32:20 - Yeah, I'll admit I haven't practiced this a lot.

33:07 - Huh?

I'm just pushing a switch here. I get a little stuck, but not for 3 seconds.

37:55 - Okay, I just watched your video again and I'll try that the next time.

38:45 - You know, this game has a lot of forgiving auto aim, and I never even thought of using it there. According to the time stamp you gave me, it looks like the plank of wood on the wall is a good reference point for making that jump.

39:37 - That's good to know, because occasionally she won't follow no matter how long I wait.

40:02 - Well I thought the game's auto-aim was forgiving. Like I said on stream, this reminds me of that one column you couldn't grab in your two thrones run that wasn't your fault.

41:36 - Yeah, there might be a way to spend a couple of seconds baiting enemies to one side of that area so I don't have to pray they don't spawn while I'm destroying the wall.

42:27 - I really don't know why I tried that skip. I've only been successful once out of 15 or so tries.

43:25 - That makes sense. I would then start at the bottom corner which would align myself perfectly, more or less.

44:04 - Yeah, I don't think you'll get luck that good in your segmented run. :-/

45:21 - Yeah, I usually don't dagger stab because knocking them down leaves the enemies stunned longer, but since knocking out the wall doesn't take very long anyways, it's always a better idea to dagger stab here.

45:42 - Okay I actually have a couple of problems with this.

1. Farah almost always gets inside the mess hall. Is there something I'm doing that's making her enter almost all the time? Would freezing the guy in the last section make it less likely for her to enter?

2. I think you said if I take sand from every single monster before the observatory, then I'll have haste for the observatory battle. The problem with that logic is that each dagger stab saves 2-3 seconds per monster killed, because the dagger stab -> flip over is a lot faster than knockdown -> take sand (and I only use it against monsters I have to knock down). I'd be losing a bunch of time knocking down all of the monsters I dagger stab.

I think it's a better idea to do what I normally do in fights and lose a bit of time in the observatory battle if I perform the mess hall skip.

I really don't think it's a minute and a half from the mess hall skip because you lose some time on fights either way. I think it's closer to 50-60 seconds.

I'd still probably submit a run without the mess hall skip, unless if there's some very consistent method to activating the skip that is discovered.

49:06 - It looked like I should have had the jump the first time, but yeah, the rest were my fault. I just need to grind on that trick a bit, it's not even very hard.

51:42 - Huh?

53:09 - Haha, I learned that the hard way. Cheesy

55:59 - Yeah this entire section was bad, but now I know if I screw it up I can still get the sand tank at the end.

56:43 - That's the first time I've screwed up the cutscene skip that way. Normally if I make mistakes there, it's just the prince jumping in place like an idiot while I'm trying to wall jump.

1:01:10 - Yeah it's all your fault. Wink

1:01:49 - Does that work at the top of the ladder, or do I have to slide down a bit?

1:16:48 - Yeah, knocking down two enemies at once is really rare so I always feel like I should go for it, but that was definitely one situation where I shouldn't have.

1:21:20 - But I usually don't need to line up this jump. Sad

1:25:30 - Normally I like to knock this guy down so he stays stunned longer, but in that situation it definitely would have been a better idea to dagger stab.

1:29:11 - Yeah, I notice how you move the camera around. I'll try that out the next time.

1:30:03 - Yeah it probably is just luck. :-/

And yeah, my fight luck was really good overall. I'm not sure if I'll get that lucky again.

Honestly, I don't think a 1:39:xx would happen with the current strats because there's simply too much randomness in the game and opportunities for error (I'd be incredibly lucky to get Dagger of Time early in one try). So similar to what you said, I think a high 1:41 to low or mid 1:43 range is a good target.

0:39 - pretty consistent. That was one of two times I've ever done that horizontal wallrun. :-/ I'll just restart if I don't get that wall run by the second try (or maybe even first try), and I would definitely restart if I got that horizontal wallrun.

4:01 - That would be cool, but I'm not sure how you would do that.

11:05 - Yeah, that's something I want to try out before doing serious SS attempts of this game.

21:40 - Yeah the battle was pretty good aside from really bad luck with the prince's father blocking.

24:12 - Huh, never noticed that. Do you mash A, or do you time it as you hit the ground? Getting that roll would make the diagonal jump a lot easier too.

28:37 - Yeah, it seems like I need to do a perfectly diagonal jump from the corner of the box.

30:00 - Yeah, I'm not sure how much time I saved here, but it was at least 10+ seconds. Also, I've had attempts where the camera was never focused on Farah, but one of the stone guys warped towards her anyway. It seems to happen more often when I kill the guy at the bottom of the stairs first, hmmmmmm. Definitely need to research this a bit.

31:07 - I'm 99% sure this is based on proximity, because when I hit both birds, I'm always closer than I was this attempt. I just didn't want to freeze the game like last time, but I know I could at least be a couple of steps closer and not risk a freeze. Oh, and it is at least 15 seconds wasted not getting both birds at once.

32:20 - Yeah, I'll admit I haven't practiced this a lot.

33:07 - ??? I'm just pushing a switch here. I get a little stuck, but not for 3 seconds.

37:55 - Okay, I just watched your video again and I'll try that the next time.

38:45 - You know, this game has a lot of forgiving auto aim, and I never even thought of using it there. According to the time stamp you gave me, it looks like the plank of wood on the wall is a good reference point for making that jump.

39:37 - That's good to know, because occasionally she won't follow no matter how long I wait.

40:02 - Well I thought the game's auto-aim was forgiving. Like I said on stream, this reminds me of that one column you couldn't grab in your two thrones run that wasn't your fault.

41:36 - Yeah, there might be a way to spend a couple of seconds baiting enemies to one side of that area so I don't have to pray they don't spawn while I'm destroying the wall.

42:27 - I really don't know why I tried that skip. I've only been successful once out of 15 or so tries.

43:25 - That makes sense. I would then start at the bottom corner which would align myself perfectly, more or less.

44:04 - Yeah, I don't think you'll get luck that good in your segmented run. :-/

45:21 - Yeah, I usually don't dagger stab because knocking them down leaves the enemies stunned longer, but since knocking out the wall doesn't take very long anyways, it's always a better idea to dagger stab here.

45:42 - Okay I actually have a couple of problems with this.

1. Farah almost always gets inside the mess hall. Is there something I'm doing that's making her enter almost all the time?  Would freezing the guy in the last section make it less likely for her to enter?

2. I think you said if I take sand from every single monster before the observatory, then I'll have haste for the observatory battle. The problem with that logic is that each dagger stab saves 2-3 seconds per monster killed, because the dagger stab -> flip over is a lot faster than knockdown -> take sand (and I only use it against monsters I have to knock down). I'd be losing a bunch of time knocking down all of the monsters I dagger stab.

I think it's a better idea to do what I normally do in fights and lose a bit of time in the observatory battle if I perform the mess hall skip.

I really don't think it's a minute and a half from the mess hall skip because you lose some time on fights either way. I think it's closer to 50-60 seconds.

I'd still probably submit a run without the mess hall skip, unless if there's some very consistent method to activating the skip that is discovered.

49:06 - It looked like I should have had the jump the first time, but yeah, the rest were my fault. I just need to grind on that trick a bit, it's not even very hard.

51:42 - ???

53:09 - Haha, I learned that the hard way. :D

55:59 - Yeah this entire section was bad, but now I know if I screw it up I can still get the sand tank at the end.

56:43 - That's the first time I've screwed up the cutscene skip that way. Normally if I make mistakes there, it's just the prince jumping in place like an idiot while I'm trying to wall jump.

1:01:10 - Yeah it's all your fault. ;)

1:01:49 - Does that work at the top of the ladder, or do I have to slide down a bit?

1:16:48 - Yeah, knocking down two enemies at once is really rare so I always feel like I should go for it, but that was definitely one situation where I shouldn't have.

1:21:20 - But I usually don't need to line up this jump. :(

1:25:30 - Normally I like to knock this guy down so he stays stunned longer, but in that situation it definitely would have been a better idea to dagger stab.

1:29:11 - Yeah, I notice how you move the camera around. I'll try that out the next time.

1:30:03 - Yeah it probably is just luck. :-/

And yeah, my fight luck was really good overall. I'm not sure if I'll get that lucky again.

Honestly, I don't think a 1:39:xx would happen with the current strats because there's simply too much randomness in the game and opportunities for error (I'd be incredibly lucky to get Dagger of Time early in one try). So similar to what you said, I think a high 1:41 to low or mid 1:43 range is a good target.

UCpro

Edit history:

UCpro: 2011-11-06 09:52:31 am

2011-11-06 09:51:56 am

Mike, i made this video to show how i do the mess hall skip setup (just 20 minutes of continuous playing). Again, like i said, my success rate is around 50%. I think it has something to do with dagger stabbing the last guy and making sure Farah is in her defense mode right when you leave that room with the enemies. Still need to test this more.

UCpro

Edit history:

UCpro: 2011-11-22 12:29:38 am

UCpro: 2011-11-21 11:37:28 pm

2011-11-21 11:30:11 pm

New route for the hall of learning....haven't tested the reliability of the rewind trick here, but this may be a semi-consistent place to pull it off. Not sure if this is any better that your method Reaver. However, instead of doing the second rewind trick like in your route Reaver, we could just do what i did in this new route to get across from the center platform (and we wouldn't have to do the rewind trick that i did in this video because those platforms would already be moved). I think a combination of the different routes we have could be good. Still a lot of testing left to do in this area....

EDIT: oh, and there's also this..... Smiley

I also found another timesaver that saves about 4 seconds while climbing the tower of dawn. It's simple to do. I'll make a video of it sometime some, along with any other new timesavers i find on that part. I have a few ideas i want to test....

New route for the hall of learning....haven't tested the reliability of the rewind trick here, but this may be a semi-consistent place to pull it off.  Not sure if this is any better that your method Reaver.  However, instead of doing the second rewind trick like in your route Reaver, we could just do what i did in this new route to get across from the center platform (and we wouldn't have to do the rewind trick that i did in this video because those platforms would already be moved).  I think a combination of the different routes we have could be good.  Still a lot of testing left to do in this area....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vg67drk1vk&feature=youtu.be

EDIT: oh, and there's also this..... :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDYySqAUFI0&feature=youtu.be

I also found another timesaver that saves about 4 seconds while climbing the tower of dawn.  It's simple to do.  I'll make a video of it sometime some, along with any other new timesavers i find on that part.  I have a few ideas i want to test....

mikwuyma

2011-11-22 03:50:05 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Why do you have to make me feel bad? Sad

Seriously though, why didn't I think of wall-jumping off that wall. I wall-torpedoed off that wall when I was first trying to figure out a way to break that door.

UCpro

2011-12-13 10:05:34 am

here's a video showing some new things in the final section of the game....

1 - this shows a new way to do the hourglass part....will be doing this for my segmented run. Not sure how much time this saves over the other route....1-2 seconds?

2 - i think this is the optimal way to do the door sequence...haven't done comparison times yet.

3 - new way to do the invisible sword part...will do this for the segmented run, but it is a little tricky. Mike, i think your method is best for a SS run.

4 - the next part show you can just jump forward on that beam, and you will fall down safely. Saves a good 3 seconds over just walking forward on it and then dropping down.

5 - this part shows a nice new method for climbing up the tower. It skips having to do the tricky wallrun up to the railing. I know its a little slower than the current method, but that can be tricky and sometimes difficult to pull off. This new method is maybe 7 seconds slower than the other shortcut, but this one is easy to do and you can get it every time. This is probably the method i will use for SS attempts. I will not use this for the segmented run though, as it is about 7 seconds slower than the wallrun route.

6 - this shows another way to do the ladder part. You only need to swing once after climbing up the first ladder. I still want to do some testing with swinging before the bats gather around you....this seems to scatter them if you time it right, buying you a little more time to climb/jump

7 - i don't know if this saves time....probably not. But it was another way of doing this part that i wanted to show

here's a video showing some new things in the final section of the game....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUdIOZ6kpfU&feature=player_embedded#!

1 - this shows a new way to do the hourglass part....will be doing this for my segmented run.  Not sure how much time this saves over the other route....1-2 seconds?

2 - i think this is the optimal way to do the door sequence...haven't done comparison times yet.

3 - new way to do the invisible sword part...will do this for the segmented run, but it is a little tricky.  Mike, i think your method is best for a SS run.

4 - the next part show you can just jump forward on that beam, and you will fall down safely.  Saves a good 3 seconds over just walking forward on it and then dropping down.

5 - this part shows a nice new method for climbing up the tower.  It skips having to do the tricky wallrun up to the railing.  I know its a little slower than the current method, but that can be tricky and sometimes difficult to pull off.  This new method is maybe 7 seconds slower than the other shortcut, but this one is easy to do and you can get it every time.  This is probably the method i will use for SS attempts.  I will not use this for the segmented run though, as it is about 7 seconds slower than the wallrun route.

6 - this shows another way to do the ladder part.  You only need to swing once after climbing up the first ladder.  I still want to do some testing with swinging before the bats gather around you....this seems to scatter them if you time it right, buying you a little more time to climb/jump

7 - i don't know if this saves time....probably not.  But it was another way of doing this part that i wanted to show

mikwuyma

Edit history:

mikwuyma: 2011-12-13 10:30:38 am

2011-12-13 10:28:05 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Hey good to know you're still working on this. I've had runs where I should have had sub-1:50 with marathon strats, but I always manage to piss it away somehow. :-/ I'll start doing attempts when I actually get a sub-1:50 run with marathon strats. Or post-marathon, whichever one happens first.

Also, the saves are more like 4 minutes extra, because you have to hit the save point in the Observatory before killing yourself, or else the last checkpoint is the beginning of the Observatory battle. You don't actually have to save, because it's just hitting the save point that triggers the checkpoint.

About the video.

1. More like 2 or 3 seconds, but that doesn't really save a whole lot of time either way. If I can do it consistently (it doesn't look too tough), then

2. That *looks* faster than how I do it, but I don't really know how much time it saves until I do a comparison.

3. Yeah, I learned the hard way that it's really easy to lose the invisible sword trying to jump off that pillar. I'm definitely going to use my invisible sword method for the marathon because it's 100% reliable. I'll probably end up using my method for an SS because it's saving 4 seconds, but you potentially lose 30+ if you screw it up.

4. That should help out a lot, especially since the bats can actually keep you on top of the balance beam if you get really unlucky. I'm not sure why you start the wall run so far on the left, because that increases the time spent moving on the pole. Then again, it's way safer than trying to jump from the left part of the balance beam, and accidentally doing a diagonal jump that kills you and wastes at least a minute and a half. Not that I would know. Lips Sealed

5. It took me a while, but I finally practiced that trick enough so that I can generally get the wallrun within 2 or 3 tries. I think I'm still going to do it the old way. BTW, are you sure that method is only 7 seconds slower? It seems a lot slower than that, like at least 10.

6. Interesting, I'm going to have to practice that method of climbing up.

7. That looks faster because you wall run there instead of balance beam jumping, but if I had to guess, the detour probably ends up being slower. Sad

Hey good to know you're still working on this. I've had runs where I should have had sub-1:50 with marathon strats, but I always manage to piss it away somehow. :-/ I'll start doing attempts when I actually get a sub-1:50 run with marathon strats. Or post-marathon, whichever one happens first.

Also, the saves are more like 4 minutes extra, because you have to hit the save point in the Observatory before killing yourself, or else the last checkpoint is the beginning of the Observatory battle. You don't actually have to save, because it's just hitting the save point that triggers the checkpoint.

About the video.

1. More like 2 or 3 seconds, but that doesn't really save a whole lot of time either way. If I can do it consistently (it doesn't look too tough), then

2. That *looks* faster than how I do it, but I don't really know how much time it saves until I do a comparison.

3. Yeah, I learned the hard way that it's really easy to lose the invisible sword trying to jump off that pillar. I'm definitely going to use my invisible sword method for the marathon because it's 100% reliable. I'll probably end up using my method for an SS because it's saving 4 seconds, but you potentially lose 30+ if you screw it up.

4. That should help out a lot, especially since the bats can actually keep you on top of the balance beam if you get really unlucky. I'm not sure why you start the wall run so far on the left, because that increases the time spent moving on the pole. Then again, it's way safer than trying to jump from the left part of the balance beam, and accidentally doing a diagonal jump that kills you and wastes at least a minute and a half. Not that I would know. :-X

5. It took me a while, but I finally practiced that trick enough so that I can generally get the wallrun within 2 or 3 tries. I think I'm still going to do it the old way. BTW, are you sure that method is only 7 seconds slower? It seems a lot slower than that, like at least 10.

6. Interesting, I'm going to have to practice that method of climbing up.

7. That looks faster because you wall run there instead of balance beam jumping, but if I had to guess, the detour probably ends up being slower. :(

UCpro

2011-12-13 12:01:25 pm

yeah, i'm still working on this....just a very slow pace right now. I hardly have time to play.

Still following your progress though, and i have to say you're doing a great job with your playthroughs! Any parts you're having difficulties with or you need help figuring out before the marathon? I noticed your last run you did the mess hall skip and you were able to get haste for the observatory by not doing many dagger stabs up to that point.....that's exactly what i meant. Saves time even though dagger stabs are faster. Being able to use haste in the observatory more than makes up for not using dagger stabs before then and not having haste for that part.

mikwuyma

Edit history:

mikwuyma: 2011-12-13 04:48:31 pm

mikwuyma: 2011-12-13 01:20:03 pm

2011-12-13 01:17:40 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Yeah, that makes sense. Using haste in the observatory saves a lot more time than the time you waste when meeting up with Farah. Also I practiced the button area a lot more so I should be a lot more consistent at hitting the jump when I do my next playthrough. I was generally grabbing the ledge first or second try as long as the stupid enemies didn't troll me with their spawns. Angry

The only thing that really needs explaining is how I got the game over loop on my first attempt in that stream. Is there any way you can explain that? Did I leave too early? It made no sense to me how I game over looped when I clearly saw Farah going through the door and heading towards me.

Aside from that, I don't think there's too much that concerns me. I'm getting more consistent at the game overall. The only thing that pops up inside my head is getting to the second pole with a wallrun inside the Sultan's Menagerie/bird cage. I can do it from a running jump, but that triggers the cutscene.

P.S. I really hope you didn't see the final area in that stream because that is by far the worst I've ever done in that area. Sad

Not going to try saving 2 seconds on that jump at the marathon...

EDIT: Oh yeah, there's sometimes a double rewind bug that cheats me out of my final rewind for the sewer escape. Do you have any idea what causes the bug?

Yeah, that makes sense. Using haste in the observatory saves a lot more time than the time you waste when meeting up with Farah. Also I practiced the button area a lot more so I should be a lot more consistent at hitting the jump when I do my next playthrough. I was generally grabbing the ledge first or second try as long as the stupid enemies didn't troll me with their spawns. >:(

The only thing that really needs explaining is how I got the game over loop on my first attempt in that stream. Is there any way you can explain that? Did I leave too early? It made no sense to me how I game over looped when I clearly saw Farah going through the door and heading towards me.

Aside from that, I don't think there's too much that concerns me. I'm getting more consistent at the game overall. The only thing that pops up inside my head is getting to the second pole with a wallrun inside the Sultan's Menagerie/bird cage. I can do it from a running jump, but that triggers the cutscene.

P.S. I really hope you didn't see the final area in that stream because that is by far the worst I've ever done in that area. :( Not going to try saving 2 seconds on that jump at the marathon...

EDIT: Oh yeah, there's sometimes a double rewind bug that cheats me out of my final rewind for the sewer escape. Do you have any idea what causes the bug?