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UCpro
2011-04-13 10:07:15 pm
hmmmmm, i tried for about 10 minutes and didn't get anything to work with the flames at the beginning of the game.  Unless i'm doing something wrong it may be something that is just really really really difficult to do.  I know that i DID have this happen to me when a hammer guy swung sideways and hit me as i was pulling a box.  I went WAY up in the air....didn't go all the way to the ceiling, but probably half way up the room....which is about 2-3 stories.  It was a fluke thing though, i just don't think it's going to be something i can use, unless you find something consistent Reaver.  It may be something that works easier on the PC too.

I also want to share that i found a 1.5-2 second timesaver in the segment 4 i'm working on, so that was good to figure out.  I actually played around with testing a few new things out in the big room with all the levers and turning platforms....i almost found a new faster way to do that part, but Farah still screwed it up Sad  There's one or two other things i want to test out in this room....probably won't save much time, but could make it easier.
Reaver
Reaver
Edit history:
Reaver: 2011-04-14 05:33:24 pm
Reaver: 2011-04-14 05:29:04 pm
Reaver: 2011-04-14 05:28:44 pm
2011-04-14 04:32:06 pm
Hmmm Looks like I have tv-out capability on my graphics card on my PC. I'll pick up a few leads this weekend and see if I can hook it up to my DVD recorded and get a demo of it working. Bet I can't get it working once now that I've mentioned it Cheesy

EDIT: Ok after some more testing I realise the reason why it doesn't work whilst recording with FRAPS was because FRAPS was significantly lowering the frame rate. When using Vsync enabled I get 60fps (Same as my FRAPS recording framerate) and can only manage a height equivalent to that of a wallrun straight up. Disabling VSync my frame rate was 100-300 frames per second without recording which seems to be a requirement to make you fly. Lower than this it doesn't work. Don't worry about the flying glitch. I don't think it will work unless you are on a PC with a very high framerate so no stress over redoing any of your segments Smiley
I don't think this can be exploited anyway right? Isn't there a rule against high frame rate gltich expolits?  I'll still post the demo of it anyway because its interesting and its here for reference if needed.
UCpro
UCpro
Edit history:
UCpro: 2011-04-14 07:24:58 pm
2011-04-14 07:23:26 pm
Quote from Reaver:
I don't think this can be exploited anyway right? Isn't there a rule against high frame rate gltich expolits?  I'll still post the demo of it anyway because its interesting and its here for reference if needed.


not sure about the PC frame rate exploits.  I'll be interested to see a vid of it if you're able to capture it.

so, i just have a little left to test with my segment 4, then i'll keep plugging away at attempts for it if i don't find anything new.  I almost don't mind it taking a while to get a good attempt beacuse playing it over and over and over just makes it that much more polished and refined.  Kinda like my segment 3....it seemed like i played and practiced that one so much that the final result looks almost perfect.

I'm getting a little scared because i know i'm getting closer and closer to the segment from just before the baths to the save after the bridge colapses......that will be the most difficult thing i ever work on i'm afraid.  Might never get it :/
Reaver
Reaver
Edit history:
Reaver: 2011-04-15 08:00:42 am
2011-04-15 02:58:11 am
I was wondering how are you going to do the sword segment? Will you be saving in the mess hall or will you be trying to get all the way to the bridge collapse? Thats a big segment with a lot of tricks and luck required.

EDIT: Sorry I meant where are you going to end it? Not how are you going to do it Smiley
UCpro
2011-04-15 10:19:01 am
Quote from Reaver:
I was wondering how are you going to do the sword segment? Will you be saving in the mess hall or will you be trying to get all the way to the bridge collapse? Thats a big segment with a lot of tricks and luck required.

EDIT: Sorry I meant where are you going to end it? Not how are you going to do it Smiley


Yup, my plan is to skip the save in the mess hall and go all the way to the bridge collapse....it's gonna be rough.  But i'll be spending a TON of time finding ways to limit the amount of luck required for that segment.  I just decided that it saves way too much time to not do the segment like this.  Even if I complete it with 30 seconds of mistakes, it would still be a TON of time saved.  I'd really like to try to get to the final save of the game in 1:27, and i'll need to push myself to get that.
UCpro
UCpro
Edit history:
UCpro: 2011-04-16 10:57:51 pm
UCpro: 2011-04-16 01:41:50 am
2011-04-16 01:39:53 am
i found this video skipping the puzzle and sword at the end of the game.....looks like it could save some time.  He said he did this on the PC, i'm hoping it will work on the GC too....




something else of interest.....not sure it can help in any way, but worth testing to see if it leads to anything.  Would be nice if this could happen by swinging on the higher pole.





EDIT 1: i just did some timing on that last sword glitch at the end of the game and it could save around 30 seconds it looks like....i sure hope it works for the GCN!!!

I also did some more testing in the warehouse section for segment 4 and found a few things out about what actually causes the shortcut to work...it really has nothing to do with Farah, but everything to do with reaching a specific load point and then reaching a specific checkpoint.  I think the route i have is the fastest way, i have other ideas that could be just a little faster, but i gave up trying to figure them out because they are just way too hard.  I did find a neat way to make it to the bottom of the warehouse without having the enemies spawn....it's easy to do, but difficult to do really quickly.  I may take an extra 0.5-1 second to make sure the enemies don't spawn, and that will make moving the box soooooooooo much more easier.
Reaver
Reaver
Edit history:
Reaver: 2011-04-20 07:28:24 am
Reaver: 2011-04-20 07:27:46 am
2011-04-20 07:17:28 am
Finally.... Took a while to get ready. Haven't had much time lately with work and everything. There are several more areas it can be exploited later on in the game but I had performed so many skips and gltiches I kept getting random Game overs before I could progress and then random game crashes when I did get further so I gave up at the 3rd sword. I'll try again later in the week to finish off other places it can be used.

Clip shows various placed it can be exploited or potentially expoilted along with a few glitches that can happen. I didn't use it at the start as the positioning is a pain in the arse. I know you can definately get up there boosting off the flames. Also note the glitch in the mess hall. I died but couldn't game over Smiley

UCpro
2011-04-20 10:33:03 am
wow, nice video!  I never did try this trick with enemies yet, but it's looking like this is a PC only trick.  I'll test it out again tonight and see if i can replicate it with enemy attacks.  My guess is it probably isn't gonna work, so i'm just going to continue on with my segments as planned.  I'm going to do a couple hours of recording segment 4 tonight.....
DJS
2011-04-20 02:46:27 pm
torch slug since 2006
Does that ultra high jump work on Warrior Within? I know atleast a few spots in the begining of the game where it could be useful
UCpro
UCpro
Edit history:
UCpro: 2011-04-20 11:47:51 pm
2011-04-20 11:45:50 pm
ok, so i'm a little confused right now....i just got what i thought was a keeper segment 4 attempt, but then i checked the time at the save and it was only a 25:51 Sad .... i'm confused because the segment is 19 seconds faster than the decent attempt i posted for you all to watch, and that attempt was 25:59.  i just don't get where those 11 seconds went!  I'm kinda pissed because it took forever to get this attempt, and i thought it was going to be around 25:40.

There's only 1 thing i can think of why this is....the cutscene after defeating enemies doesn't count against your time, and anytime you are in the middle of rewinding it doesn't count against your time.  If this is the case then the 8 second difference makes sense instead of the 19 second realtime difference the segment actually is.  Reaver, do you think this could really be plausible (it seems like it wouldn't be, but it's my only explanation)???  I'm just so confused about this right now.

I'm encoding the video right now, and will have it up tomorrow morning so you can compare with my old attempt and try to make sense of the timing
Reaver
2011-04-21 04:07:01 am
Quote from DJS:
Does that ultra high jump work on Warrior Within? I know atleast a few spots in the begining of the game where it could be useful


Hmmm not really tried much on Warrior Within. I'll dig out my disk and give it a shot when I have some free time.

Quote from UCpro:
ok, so i'm a little confused right now....i just got what i thought was a keeper segment 4 attempt, but then i checked the time at the save and it was only a 25:51 Sad .... i'm confused because the segment is 19 seconds faster than the decent attempt i posted for you all to watch, and that attempt was 25:59.  i just don't get where those 11 seconds went!  I'm kinda pissed because it took forever to get this attempt, and i thought it was going to be around 25:40.

There's only 1 thing i can think of why this is....the cutscene after defeating enemies doesn't count against your time, and anytime you are in the middle of rewinding it doesn't count against your time.  If this is the case then the 8 second difference makes sense instead of the 19 second realtime difference the segment actually is.  Reaver, do you think this could really be plausible (it seems like it wouldn't be, but it's my only explanation)???  I'm just so confused about this right now.

I'm encoding the video right now, and will have it up tomorrow morning so you can compare with my old attempt and try to make sense of the timing


From what I remember somewhere in a thread long ago someone said that the rewinding time rewinds the game clock or I could've just made that up. Perhaps the ingame timer doesn't count the cutscenes either. Does your ingame timer go down to seconds? On the PS2 it only gives how many minutes. Think the PC has seconds.... I'll check when I finish work.

Looking forward to seeing this segment. I'll compare it to your test segment to see if I can figure out the timing.
UCpro
UCpro
Edit history:
UCpro: 2011-04-21 12:00:51 pm
2011-04-21 09:29:31 am
here's the new segment, with the old one next to it....




I did a quick test and it turns out that the game clock DOES stop when you're in rewind mode, that's interesting!  Knowing that, there might be some truth to what i was thinking for why there was a difference between the two segments.  Maybe the cutscene really doesn't count against your time to.  Dont have time to test that right now, but i will look into it.

Oh, and the gamecube only has minutes displayed, but i can figure out the seconds by opening up the file and saving again at differenet durations to see how long i can play and still be sub 26 minute (26 minutes at the end of segment 4).  In this case, i could play for 8 seconds and still be sub 26, which means my time is 25:51 for my new segment.


EDIT: looks like this segment was actually 20 seconds faster than my last one (realtime)
mikwuyma
mikwuyma
Edit history:
mikwuyma: 2011-04-21 12:43:09 pm
mikwuyma: 2011-04-21 12:02:19 pm
2011-04-21 12:01:05 pm
My feelings on The Demon Rush
UCPro: You do know this game is going to be manually timed, right?

I haven't checked this topic in a while, but some of these new skips look nice. Smiley Makes me want to try and figure out how to get some of these tricks consistent for an SS.

BTW, how did you improve your consistency with the rewind tricks, UCPro?

EDIT: Looked at the birds video. I always wondered why my game froze up so often there. That solves one mystery for me. Now all I need to do is figure out what causes the Farah game over loop doing the second sword skip.
UCpro
2011-04-21 01:22:54 pm
Quote from mikwuyma:
UCPro: You do know this game is going to be manually timed, right?

I haven't checked this topic in a while, but some of these new skips look nice. Smiley Makes me want to try and figure out how to get some of these tricks consistent for an SS.

BTW, how did you improve your consistency with the rewind tricks, UCPro?

EDIT: Looked at the birds video. I always wondered why my game froze up so often there. That solves one mystery for me. Now all I need to do is figure out what causes the Farah game over loop doing the second sword skip.



I thought this game was going to be timed by looking at the in-game time at the 98% save and then manually timing the last segment...like my star fox adventures run.  Seems like this makes the most sense to me.

It would be cool if you get back to SS work Mike...i'm going to do a SS run after i'm finished with this run, i'm really looking forward to it too.  I know exactly what tricks and shortcuts would make sense for a SS run, and which ones to leave out.  I'm not consistent enough at the rewind tricks that i would put them in.  I can't wait to try out a lot of new techniques for the second sword shortcut....i want to find a way to pull that off close to 100% of the time and not have to worry about game overs there, since that's right in the beginning of a hell segment.  That part's coming up quick!!
mikwuyma
mikwuyma
Edit history:
mikwuyma: 2011-04-21 07:07:31 pm
mikwuyma: 2011-04-21 07:05:50 pm
2011-04-21 06:39:43 pm
My feelings on The Demon Rush
Well, I made an exception for that Star Fox Adventures run, simply because I didn't want to time 100 segments (the in-game timer being accurate to the second helped too). Generally games that don't show their time at the end (or in a menu like RPGs) are manually timed.

Oh, BTW, I finally watched segments 3 and 4 (I know, I'm late).

Segment 3: That was a really great segment. You had especially great luck at the battle during the very end, though I'm not sure why you hesitated around those red soldiers near the end. Also, it's too bad the King had to ruin your great luck by blocking. Sad

Segment 4: I can't remember if that way of going up the poles is a shortcut, or the way you're normally supposed to do it. Either way, it looks faster than jumping up the two pillars repeatedly. Also,

Rewind Trick: I thought you figured out a method of nailing the trick more consistently. Am I misremembering something, or is it simply consistent enough to cut down the number of segment attempts doing the trick?

Tricks that would work in a SS run: I remember going over which tricks would work, and I remember figuring out that pretty much every trick that wasn't a rewind trick should be in a SS run. I'm guessing that really precise jump in segment 4 would also work in a single-segment (without the rewind trick beforehand, of course)?
UCpro
2011-04-21 10:17:30 pm
Quote from mikwuyma:
Segment 3: That was a really great segment. You had especially great luck at the battle during the very end, though I'm not sure why you hesitated around those red soldiers near the end. Also, it's too bad the King had to ruin your great luck by blocking. Sad

Rewind Trick: I thought you figured out a method of nailing the trick more consistently. Am I misremembering something, or is it simply consistent enough to cut down the number of segment attempts doing the trick?


i was cautious at the 2 red enemy part of segment 3 because i was looking for blue enemy to use the dagger stab attack on....i wanted to use that, then get the ability to use the dagger stab again after killing those 2 red enemies.  It does look a little like i'm lost, but it was just me being cautious and making sure i didn't screw up that great segment.  I still think that's the best segment i've ever done for any game, really proud of that one!!

I still haven't found a super super consistent way to do the rewind trick.  The rewind tricks in the beginning of the game are a lot harder than the ones at the end of the game.  The last couple spots in the game where you use the trick it's a lot more consistent to pull them off for some reason.....those i would maybe think about putting in a SS run.  And yes, i was referring to a more consistent method of pulling it off to cut down the number of segment attempts doing the trick.
Reaver
2011-04-22 08:48:56 am
Awesome segment. Almost perfect.

On your next segment I can't really see many ways to save time at the moment. Only small timesaver I can think of is when climing the trees, dont just climb. There is a wall next to it you can jump back and forth from the tree to the wall and back making it quicker to the top. Should save a second or two. 
UCpro
2011-04-22 10:37:29 am
i looked for new shortcuts last night and found one that might work out, would definitely make segment 6 a lot easier if it works out....



Also, doing the rewind trick to get up on the ledge in the baths (the one you normally jump to from the pole) works pretty well and i didn't get a game over from Farah when i did it, so that's encouraging.  I only had a little bit of time last night to look for stuff, but these two things were what i was hoping for in my pursuit to make segment 6 a lot easier.

As far as segment 5, you're right Reaver, not many ways to save time from what i had in my practice run.  I'll look into that more this weekend.


One thing i did find out is that the cutscene at the end of my segment 4 that i skipped by entering the save portal early, well it plays after you kill all the birds, so that kinda sucks.  If these segments will be timed manually then i guess it didn't really matter that i skipped it at all.....actually it turns out that i wasted a second or 2 setting up the 4 hammer guys so i would end up on that save portal.  I may redo segment 4 now that i know this, maybe, maybe not....we'll see
Reaver
2011-04-22 01:57:30 pm
Nice find. Shame about the door. Actually would it be possible to do that whilst all the sand monsters are there? I mean you could potentially skip that fight altogther. If you could activate the ladder at that point without going outside Farah might just climb straight up it and not die.
mikwuyma
2011-04-22 10:15:54 pm
My feelings on The Demon Rush
I was wondering why the door to the switch loaded for you, UCPro, but when I saw about 2/3rds of the outside portion not load, I knew I was watching hte PoP: SoT I know and love. Smiley
UCpro
UCpro
Edit history:
UCpro: 2011-04-23 03:38:41 pm
2011-04-22 11:04:33 pm
Quote from Reaver:
Nice find. Shame about the door. Actually would it be possible to do that whilst all the sand monsters are there? I mean you could potentially skip that fight altogther. If you could activate the ladder at that point without going outside Farah might just climb straight up it and not die.


yeah, that's what i need to test, hopefully Farah would go for the ladder amidst all the enemies.  If she does then that would be an easier way to skip the fight (which i WILL be doing one way or another for this run)


EDIT: ok, so i tested a little bit more on segment 6 and i'm really starting to nail down consistent methods of doing all the difficult tricks in this section....turns out this might not be as hard as i was originally thinking!!  I found a way to get Farah to climb the ladder in the mess hall using the new rewind trick i found for this section.  It may require 1 or 2 deaths in order to restart at checkpoints, but that's ok Smiley  I'm still not sure if it is more or less time saved than the method Satvara used, but it sure will be a whole lot easier (i can pull that rewind trick off almost every single time!!)

I also found a pretty consistent way to do the second sword early shortcut without getting a game over from Farah.  And also i found a pretty consistent way to manipulate the enemies to make breaking through the 2 walls in this segment really easy!!  And i also found an easy way to do the 2 wallrun jumps onto poles in this segment.

There's still a lot more to test in segment 6, but i'm confident i figured out an easy way to do all the difficult stuff we already know about.  As for now, i think i will hold off on segment 6 stuff and start practicing segment 5 and try to get a decent attempt up.  My practice run made it the save portal after the bridge collapse in a high 54 minutes....i'm thing i might be able to get to the same spot at 43 minutes for this run Smiley  11+ minutes improvement at the 50% mark is pretty good i'd say if i do end up with that time Smiley
UCpro
UCpro
Edit history:
UCpro: 2011-04-24 12:37:05 am
UCpro: 2011-04-23 10:43:42 pm
2011-04-23 10:42:35 pm
here's a pretty good segment 5 attempt....i could improve this by 8-10 seconds i think.  Total time with this attempt was 32:07, so i could get 31:xx at this save with a very polished attempt.



A missed jump at the bottom of the bird cage cost 4 seconds. A vertical wallrun instead of a horizontal wallrun cost me about 2 seconds. A few other small things that didn't go to smooth, but overall pretty good!! I need to figure out a fast way to do the scarab fight, although the fight against them in this attempt was actually pretty good.  Let me know if you have any faster ideas for any part of this Reaver, or anyone else that may know too Smiley


EDIT: I also think i'm going to redo my segment 4, i think i can shave a couple seconds off of it.
mikwuyma
2011-04-25 12:19:20 am
My feelings on The Demon Rush
The only thing I could see that you didn't point out already is that at 6:13, you can jump off the wall earlier than you do to hit the palm tree. You'd only save about half a second, but it's still a bit of time.
UCpro
2011-04-26 07:31:21 pm
yeah Mike, i knew about that....it was one of the small timesavers i missed.  Below is a list of things i could improve on.....

0:24 - this trick could've been 1 second faster....but it's difficult to do super fast
0:32 - killing these 3 birds was pretty bad....could have been 1 second faster
1:58 - missed jump cost 4 seconds
2:10 - bad landing cost half a second
2:52 - bad landing cost half a second
3:26 - this fight went pretty well, not sure if there's a faster method....for now i'll say this is good
4:45 - I paused a little longer than i needed to....couple tenths of a second lost
4:50 - walking across the trap was a little slow....half a second lost
5:23 - vertical wallrun cost 2 seconds
5:32 - i could've jumped a little sooneer off this ledge to the tree...couple tenths of a second lost
6:13 - could have jumped a little sooner to the tree as Mike pointed out....couple tenths of a second

....so that's a little over 10 seconds i could save.  But i'm not gonna work on this anymore until i get a better segment 4
UCpro
UCpro
Edit history:
UCpro: 2011-04-29 07:35:30 pm
2011-04-29 07:17:02 pm
I worked on segment 4 a little bit last night and i decided that i'm going to keep the attempt i already have.  I could only really improve it by 2 seconds, and that would be a nearly perfect attempt....i got lucky with my current attempt because one of the hammer guys took out another hammer guy (and that's 2 seconds saved that almost never happens).  Unless someone REALLY wants me to improve it, i'm going to move forward with segment 5 and hopefully will be able to get sub 32 at the save pretty easily.  It's not a difficult segment like 3 and 4 were, so i should be able to get this one done pretty quick.  I'm excited about getting to segment 6 and seeing how that will all come together.