Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness

2010-05-05 01:37:40 am

An hour? Really? In my test run, even optimizing Teddiursa's purification with the turn counts left it a bit short, and I had to use the Cologne Case to finish it off. Between the rematches and the money gained from them, even with the worst luck I can't see it taking that long. That said, it probably would be the biggest SS run killer (aside from getting a good nature for Eevee), because Reverse Mode is stubbornly rare early on.

I haven't watched the test segments yet, but AA nailed what I was trying to say about segmentation. Once school smooths out I should be able to help out some more.

Nightmare

2010-05-05 02:43:38 pm

Quote from PMIT:

An hour? Really? In my test run, even optimizing Teddiursa's purification with the turn counts left it a bit short, and I had to use the Cologne Case to finish it off. Between the rematches and the money gained from them, even with the worst luck I can't see it taking that long. That said, it probably would be the biggest SS run killer (aside from getting a good nature for Eevee), because Reverse Mode is stubbornly rare early on.

I haven't watched the test segments yet, but AA nailed what I was trying to say about segmentation. Once school smooths out I should be able to help out some more.

It's bad, on the SS runs I was clocking in at 0:35 at my best with the Teddiursa, and over an hour on my worst. Average full time up to that point is 0:52

-James

Nightmare

2010-05-06 09:52:26 am

Sorry for the double, but going to be streaming some more planning for an eventual SS any% of this game, Part 2, after the Cipher Lab.

Time of about 2 hours up to this point.

Tune in Sunday night at 8 PM to 9 PM EDT

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/the-dragons-den1

All suggestions, catcalls, and "You Suck" welcome

-James

Hariyama465

2010-05-09 02:47:31 am

Just came back to say that I'm not dead!

Also I'm still interested in my 100% snag run, the reason i haven't been here or working on it at all is because of finals, as I mentioned before.

But my last final is Wednesday of next week and I'm looking at resuming work on my test run that day.

As far as the segmentation goes, I know that i'm not going to get penalized for, say saving before every fight but...i dunno, it just looks bad.

Having 90+ segments, well maybe not THAT much, but having a bunch of segments just seems iffy to me.

However the time saved would be considerable, there's no doubting that. It's probably worth looking into, I'd say.

Nightmare

2010-05-09 08:15:50 am

Quote from Yamasaur:

Just came back to say that I'm not dead!

Also I'm still interested in my 100% snag run, the reason i haven't been here or working on it at all is because of finals, as I mentioned before.

But my last final is Wednesday of next week and I'm looking at resuming work on my test run that day.

As far as the segmentation goes, I know that i'm not going to get penalized for, say saving before every fight but...i dunno, it just looks bad.

Having 90+ segments, well maybe not THAT much, but having a bunch of segments just seems iffy to me.

However the time saved would be considerable, there's no doubting that. It's probably worth looking into, I'd say.

I agree, 90+ segments is terrible, but that Teddiursa part is just absolutely mandatory. There's really no consistent way to do that otherwise. You can have less segments on other parts of the game to make up for it and I don't see another area of the game besides there where segmentation is really mandatory. If you segment that part, then the parts you have and the bosses, you'll probably end up with about 20, which is fair for a 5-7 hour game on a speed run.

Your call though.

-James

[quote="Yamasaur"]
Just came back to say that I'm not dead!

Also I'm still interested in my 100% snag run, the reason i haven't been here or working on it at all is because of finals, as I mentioned before.

But my last final is Wednesday of next week and I'm looking at resuming work on my test run that day.

As far as the segmentation goes, I know that i'm not going to get penalized for, say saving before every fight but...i dunno, it just looks bad.

Having 90+ segments, well maybe not THAT much, but having a bunch of segments just seems iffy to me.

However the time saved would be considerable, there's no doubting that. It's probably worth looking into, I'd say. 
[/quote]

I agree, 90+ segments is terrible, but that Teddiursa part is just absolutely mandatory.  There's really no consistent way to do that otherwise.  You can have less segments on other parts of the game to make up for it and I don't see another area of the game besides there where segmentation is really mandatory.  If you segment that part, then the parts you have and the bosses, you'll probably end up with about 20, which is fair for a 5-7 hour game on a speed run.

Your call though.

-James

TheMG2

2010-05-09 09:56:28 am

For the 100%, you need to plan for when you are going to catch Miror B.'s Nosepass because you can't catch it the first time. I'd suggest manipulating him into appearing right when you are about to leave an area. I believe it is based on steps taken. And hope he doesn't appear somewhere stupid like Pyrite Coloseum.

Hariyama465

2010-05-09 12:03:39 pm

@ Nightmare:

I do agree actually on your Teddiursa Segmentation idea, for this reason:

though I haven't uploaded the test run of Segment 3 yet (which, I will--just after finals, of course) you'll see that I basically waste ALL my money buying 6 scents in order to purify Teddiursa. The downside of this is that IMMEDIATELY after fighting the Hexagon Brothers I don't have enough pokeballs to snag the remaining pokemon inside the lab, so I have to make a trip to Agate in order to stock up on some more pokeballs, however this triggers another annoying ass and long scene with the Hexagon bros in which they try to do their "sound off" and fail.

Even if I still have to use scents to purify Teddiursa after getting it into Reverse Mode a bunch of times, at least I'll have enough money left over to buy as many pokeballs as I need, so that'll save time. Otherwise with only one reverse mode calling you need to buy 6 of the most expensive scents just to be able to purify him. So I think it's worth it segmenting there.

@ MarioGalaxy2433g5:

Oh you're right. I forgot about the fact that you won't have the snag machine at that time. Well hopefully resetting a bunch of times until he gets to the right place should do the trick.

On another note, I JUST realized that if I happen to save before a shadow pokemon fight (like say where I am now, RIGHT before Shadow Snorunt) I can just manipulate luck and reset until I snag them in one go.

Although these opportunities are few and far between, but after my finals are over I think we can plan out a tentative route for this game. As in, should Ledyba and Poochyena get their own segment, or should the first visit to Gateon port just be one segment, etc.

Anyways thanks all of you for expressing interest in this game, the help is much appreciated. The more people who help with this the more tricks we uncover to save time and the better the final product will be, so I appreciate it.

@ Nightmare:

I do agree actually on your Teddiursa Segmentation idea, for this reason:

though I haven't uploaded the test run of Segment 3 yet (which, I will--just after finals, of course) you'll see that I basically waste ALL my money buying 6 scents in order to purify Teddiursa. The downside of this is that IMMEDIATELY after fighting the Hexagon Brothers I don't have enough pokeballs to snag the remaining pokemon inside the lab, so I have to make a trip to Agate in order to stock up on some more pokeballs, however this triggers another annoying ass and long scene with the Hexagon bros in which they try to do their "sound off" and fail.

Even if I still have to use scents to purify Teddiursa after getting it into Reverse Mode a bunch of times, at least I'll have enough money left over to buy as many pokeballs as I need, so that'll save time. Otherwise with only one reverse mode calling you need to buy 6 of the most expensive scents just to be able to purify him. So I think it's worth it segmenting there.

@ MarioGalaxy2433g5:

Oh you're right. I forgot about the fact that you won't have the snag machine at that time. Well hopefully resetting a bunch of times until he gets to the right place should do the trick.

On another note, I JUST realized that if I happen to save before a shadow pokemon fight (like say where I am now, RIGHT before Shadow Snorunt) I can just manipulate luck and reset until I snag them in one go.

Although these opportunities are few and far between, but after my finals are over I think we can plan out a tentative route for this game. As in, should Ledyba and Poochyena get their own segment, or should the first visit to Gateon port just be one segment, etc.

Anyways thanks all of you for expressing interest in this game, the help is much appreciated. The more people who help with this the more tricks we uncover to save time and the better the final product will be, so I appreciate it.

TheMG2

2010-05-09 05:27:42 pm

Quote from Yamasaur:

@ Nightmare:

I do agree actually on your Teddiursa Segmentation idea, for this reason:

though I haven't uploaded the test run of Segment 3 yet (which, I will--just after finals, of course) you'll see that I basically waste ALL my money buying 6 scents in order to purify Teddiursa. The downside of this is that IMMEDIATELY after fighting the Hexagon Brothers I don't have enough pokeballs to snag the remaining pokemon inside the lab, so I have to make a trip to Agate in order to stock up on some more pokeballs, however this triggers another annoying ass and long scene with the Hexagon bros in which they try to do their "sound off" and fail.

Even if I still have to use scents to purify Teddiursa after getting it into Reverse Mode a bunch of times, at least I'll have enough money left over to buy as many pokeballs as I need, so that'll save time. Otherwise with only one reverse mode calling you need to buy 6 of the most expensive scents just to be able to purify him. So I think it's worth it segmenting there.

You could always get the Hexagon Brother's pokemon later, in Phenac City.

[quote="Yamasaur"]
@ Nightmare:

I do agree actually on your Teddiursa Segmentation idea, for this reason:

though I haven't uploaded the test run of Segment 3 yet (which, I will--just after finals, of course) you'll see that I basically waste ALL my money buying 6 scents in order to purify Teddiursa. The downside of this is that IMMEDIATELY after fighting the Hexagon Brothers I don't have enough pokeballs to snag the remaining pokemon inside the lab, so I have to make a trip to Agate in order to stock up on some more pokeballs, however this triggers another annoying ass and long scene with the Hexagon bros in which they try to do their "sound off" and fail.

Even if I still have to use scents to purify Teddiursa after getting it into Reverse Mode a bunch of times, at least I'll have enough money left over to buy as many pokeballs as I need, so that'll save time. Otherwise with only one reverse mode calling you need to buy 6 of the most expensive scents just to be able to purify him. So I think it's worth it segmenting there.

[/quote]

You could always get the Hexagon Brother's pokemon later, in Phenac City.

Hariyama465

2010-05-09 05:45:22 pm

Well, as far as that goes, you HAVE to fight the Hexagon Bros before getting access to the lab.

I'm not sure if you have to fight the Justy clones. If you have to fight ALL of them, it might be worth getting their pokemon then. Otherwise, I would be forced to get them all at the lab.

TheMG2

Edit history:

TheMG2: 2010-05-09 05:58:20 pm

2010-05-09 05:52:09 pm

Quote from Yamasaur:

Well, as far as that goes, you HAVE to fight the Hexagon Bros before getting access to the lab.

I'm not sure if you have to fight the Justy clones. If you have to fight ALL of them, it might be worth getting their pokemon then. Otherwise, I would be forced to get them all at the lab.

You don't have to fight any. So yeah...

EDIT: Would fighting some optional trainers help any? Or possibly selling any items you find...

CriminallyVulgar

2010-05-09 06:47:43 pm

Just a thought regarding segmentation, I thought the idea was that if the run is segmented at all, then it should be segmented as much as will produce the optimal run? I know having dozens upon dozens of segments feels cheap, but sometimes I'd expect it to be the best way to get a good time, especially in something as random as a pokemon game.

I'm not trying to push you one way or the other, just a little extra thought on the matter. Also, look at UCPro's Star Fox Adventures run. 100 segments for under 5 hours of speedrun. I don't think anyone's gonna argue that it's a bad run Wink

I'm looking forward to seeing this run come together, never played this one myself, but I do love watching pokemon runs. Smiley

Hariyama465

2010-05-09 07:19:58 pm

Oho. You do serve up a good point. Saving before each and every fight would drastically reduce the overall time.

Hrm...I think I have a sort of plan brewing in my head, I want to complete a few test runs (all of which I will record, because I can--and because if people can see them it helps to point out errors and the like) of this game. My first one that I'm currently working on, then a second that'll probably be more optimized or may even segment each fight.

By playing this game multiple times, changing the method each time slightly or just becoming more familiar with it will help me discover techniques and routes that would help make the fastest 100% snag run possible.

I think for the second test run (my, i'm getting overly ambitious and ahead of myself, I haven't even completed the first test run!) I'm going to try using Espeon over Jolteon. Especially if each fight is segmented, Thunder Wave won't matter if I just snag them all on the first go.

And as I said at first Espeon's confusion is gonna do way more damage than Jolteon's Thundershock, and Psychic only does 10 points less of damage than Jolteon's Thunder. It's worth looking into.

I STILL feel a bit nauseous about having a bunch of segments but we'll see how it goes. Gotta get that test run finished, first.

Oh plus, doing multiple runs helps compare time, look at Mark Wong's Paper Mario TTYD run, by doing up to 5 speed run attempts he was able to compare exactly how much time was saved between each segment, which I think helps especially in a long game like this one that's going to have a lot of segments--whether or not I decide to segment each fight.

Oho. You do serve up a good point. Saving before each and every fight would drastically reduce the overall time.

Hrm...I think I have a sort of plan brewing in my head, I want to complete a few test runs (all of which I will record, because I can--and because if people can see them it helps to point out errors and the like) of this game. My first one that I'm currently working on, then a second that'll probably be more optimized or may even segment each fight.

By playing this game multiple times, changing the method each time slightly or just becoming more familiar with it will help me discover techniques and routes that would help make the fastest 100% snag run possible.

I think for the second test run (my, i'm getting overly ambitious and ahead of myself, I haven't even completed the first test run!) I'm going to try using Espeon over Jolteon. Especially if each fight is segmented, Thunder Wave won't matter if I just snag them all on the first go.

And as I said at first Espeon's confusion is gonna do way more damage than Jolteon's Thundershock, and Psychic only does 10 points less of damage than Jolteon's Thunder. It's worth looking into.

I STILL feel a bit nauseous about having a bunch of segments but we'll see how it goes. Gotta get that test run finished, first.

Oh plus, doing multiple runs helps compare time, look at Mark Wong's Paper Mario TTYD run, by doing up to 5 speed run attempts he was able to compare exactly how much time was saved between each segment, which I think helps especially in a long game like this one that's going to have a lot of segments--whether or not I decide to segment each fight.

Nightmare

2010-05-09 10:03:17 pm

Some SS benchmarks in planning (any %):

2:02 - Cipher Lair
3:02 - ONBS clear
4:52 - Beginning of Snagem Hideout

-James

Hariyama465

2010-05-09 10:21:42 pm

I think I'm 2:32 after clearing ONBS \o/

However there are a lot of improvements to be made on my run, mostly involving luck manipulation with catch rates and just overall other tweaks to improve it.

Thanks for those benchmarks though, it should help.

Maaan, now that I think about it, any%ing this game is so much easier than 100% snagging but they're both worth doing for this game.

Nightmare

2010-05-09 10:36:02 pm

Quote from Yamasaur:

I think I'm 2:32 after clearing ONBS \o/

However there are a lot of improvements to be made on my run, mostly involving luck manipulation with catch rates and just overall other tweaks to improve it.

Thanks for those benchmarks though, it should help.

Maaan, now that I think about it, any%ing this game is so much easier than 100% snagging but they're both worth doing for this game.

2:32 with segmentation is really good, I'd like to get under 3 hours for the full SS clear.

You also have the advantage of more levels from battling, I'm coming into Exol not at the greatest of levels either.

I might be fighting a few more of the XXXSix either to get some shadow buffers. It'll be interesting to see how you can do a bit later after ONBS. Phenac's critical though, one or two too many battles there and you'll lose time.

-James

-James

Hariyama465

2010-05-09 10:57:48 pm

Bah. Shadow buffers. They come in really handy sometimes, especially Spheal which has helped take care of ground/rock types that completely wall Houndour/Jolteon

and their gauges go down more by just walking, so even if you dont purify them you still have access to their attacks.

And that is true about the battling. I'm sure you skipped fights you didn't need to. That's why I think Espeon is a better choice than Jolteon, because Espeon with Confusion does FAR more damage than Jolteon with Thundershock (his primary attack until Thunder). Even when you get Thunder, Espeon's Psychic only does 10 less damage (against a neutral sp. def nature Glalie) than Jolteon's Thunder, and it has more PP and 100% accuracy.

However there are a lot of water/flyings in this game, but even those guys shouldn't be a problem for Espeon. That's why I'm going to do my second test run with Espeon to see how much better it is, but it could help the low level problem.

For the buffers I would just get Spheal for his Water Gun, since (if you're using Jolteon) Mareep is useless. Other than that Gulpin, Baltoy, Seedot are also useless. But Delcatty might make for a useful buffer.

Bah. Shadow buffers. They come in really handy sometimes, especially Spheal which has helped take care of ground/rock types that completely wall Houndour/Jolteon

and their gauges go down more by just walking, so even if you dont purify them you still have access to their attacks.

And that is true about the battling. I'm sure you skipped fights you didn't need to. That's why I think Espeon is a better choice than Jolteon, because Espeon with Confusion does FAR more damage than Jolteon with Thundershock (his primary attack until Thunder). Even when you get Thunder, Espeon's Psychic only does 10 less damage (against a neutral sp. def nature Glalie) than Jolteon's Thunder, and it has more PP and 100% accuracy.

However there are a lot of water/flyings in this game, but even those guys shouldn't be a problem for Espeon. That's why I'm going to do my second test run with Espeon to see how much better it is, but it could help the low level problem.

For the buffers I would just get Spheal for his Water Gun, since (if you're using Jolteon) Mareep is useless. Other than that Gulpin, Baltoy, Seedot are also useless. But Delcatty might make for a useful buffer.

Nightmare

2010-05-09 11:37:49 pm

Quote from Yamasaur:

Bah. Shadow buffers. They come in really handy sometimes, especially Spheal which has helped take care of ground/rock types that completely wall Houndour/Jolteon

and their gauges go down more by just walking, so even if you dont purify them you still have access to their attacks.

And that is true about the battling. I'm sure you skipped fights you didn't need to. That's why I think Espeon is a better choice than Jolteon, because Espeon with Confusion does FAR more damage than Jolteon with Thundershock (his primary attack until Thunder). Even when you get Thunder, Espeon's Psychic only does 10 less damage (against a neutral sp. def nature Glalie) than Jolteon's Thunder, and it has more PP and 100% accuracy.

However there are a lot of water/flyings in this game, but even those guys shouldn't be a problem for Espeon. That's why I'm going to do my second test run with Espeon to see how much better it is, but it could help the low level problem.

For the buffers I would just get Spheal for his Water Gun, since (if you're using Jolteon) Mareep is useless. Other than that Gulpin, Baltoy, Seedot are also useless. But Delcatty might make for a useful buffer.

Gulpin actually works as a decent wall on harder hitters. It certainly is a nice "hit me target" so that Jolteon or Espeon doesn't get hit, but he's not useful once you get to the S. S. Libra.

-James

[quote="Yamasaur"]
Bah. Shadow buffers. They come in really handy sometimes, especially Spheal which has helped take care of ground/rock types that completely wall Houndour/Jolteon

and their gauges go down more by just walking, so even if you dont purify them you still have access to their attacks.

And that is true about the battling. I'm sure you skipped fights you didn't need to. That's why I think Espeon is a better choice than Jolteon, because Espeon with Confusion does FAR more damage than Jolteon with Thundershock (his primary attack until Thunder). Even when you get Thunder, Espeon's Psychic only does 10 less damage (against a neutral sp. def nature Glalie) than Jolteon's Thunder, and it has more PP and 100% accuracy.

However there are a lot of water/flyings in this game, but even those guys shouldn't be a problem for Espeon. That's why I'm going to do my second test run with Espeon to see how much better it is, but it could help the low level problem.

For the buffers I would just get Spheal for his Water Gun, since (if you're using Jolteon) Mareep is useless. Other than that Gulpin, Baltoy, Seedot are also useless. But Delcatty might make for a useful buffer.
[/quote]

Gulpin actually works as a decent wall on harder hitters.  It certainly is a nice "hit me target" so that Jolteon or Espeon doesn't get hit, but he's not useful once you get to the S. S. Libra.

-James

Hariyama465

2010-05-09 11:51:24 pm

Probably because of his base 70 HP.

What do you plan to do about the first Snattle fight, considering Lanturn and Quagsire wall Jolteon and Houndoom. I think using some Shadow Buffers on them should help out, since Shadow moves will be super effective.

Shadow Blitz is what you're probably going to have at the beginning, but it only does 40 base. However Delcatty does have Shadow Rush, which has 55, but it is a kind of crappy pokemon.

However compared to the OTHERS it would probably do more with Shadow Rush than say, Voltorb.

Nightmare

Edit history:

Nightmare: 2010-05-10 09:30:44 am

2010-05-10 08:27:40 am

I'm generally running JoltDooom with a Spheal backup.

Snattle was a slugfest and probably could be done faster, but I essentially had Jolteon do the Bite treatment and switched Houndoom to a buffer so I wouldn't get nailed: Lunatone really went down before it got going.

Looking at some other plans, I'm going to need some better buffers at the key Lair: I think catching the Zangoose is a pretty much a must: Grabbing the Arbok late might be important too, and Shadow Half rocks as an ability.

I caught Baltoy in the first area, but that was a waste of time. Shroomish and Spinarak work fine as buffers for the early part of the game if you're that desperate. IIn an any%, take a shot at the Delcatty, but don't overly push it.

BTW, Ice Beam for Spheal, Flamethrower for Houndoom, and Thunderbolt TM's for Jolteon are absolute MUSTS. Thunderbolt is absolutely worth the extra fight and I don't know if you can beat Eldes and Greevil without it.

Also, for all noteworths: Lugia with the Master Ball at the end is a freebie too, and will wall the hell out of Greevil's Pokemon while you restore your party.

-James

I'm generally running JoltDooom with a Spheal backup.

Snattle was a slugfest and probably could be done faster, but I essentially had Jolteon do the Bite treatment and switched Houndoom to a buffer so I wouldn't get nailed:  Lunatone really went down before it got going.

Looking at some other plans, I'm going to need some better buffers at the key Lair:  I think catching the Zangoose is a pretty much a must:  Grabbing the Arbok late might be important too, and Shadow Half rocks as an ability.

I caught Baltoy in the first area, but that was a waste of time.  Shroomish and Spinarak work fine as buffers for the early part of the game if you're that desperate.  IIn an any%, take a shot at the Delcatty, but don't overly push it.

BTW, Ice Beam for Spheal, Flamethrower for Houndoom, and Thunderbolt TM's for Jolteon are absolute MUSTS.  Thunderbolt is absolutely worth the extra fight and I don't know if you can beat Eldes and Greevil without it.

Also, for all noteworths:  Lugia with the Master Ball at the end is a freebie too, and will wall the hell out of Greevil's Pokemon while you restore your party.

-James

Hariyama465

2010-05-10 12:05:11 pm

Spheal backup is nice. In my test run I've only had to use it once so far (against Naps's Rhyhorn before Lovrina) but it is a good pokemon. For teaching it Ice Beam, don't you have to purify it first?

I agree Shadow Half is awesome, and since I'm catching everything I'll have access to it, so I plan to abuse it. I already knew about the Thunderbolt/Flamethrower TMs for Jolteon and Houndoom, and I planned to teach them those as soon as I could.

The only thing that sort of gets me is Thunder's low PP. I know you get a good number of PPups in the game without really having to go out of your way to get them, but should those be used on Thunderbolt/Flamethrower to possibly increase their PP's instead? Since you'd be using them more often.

I don't know, I'm not to that point yet.

Also I think I'm going to use Master Ball on Dragonite, since I've heard he's harder to catch than Lugia is. Also, bringing a buuuunch of Shadow Pokemon (Salamence, Poliwrath, Marowak, Starmie etc) should help wall against Greevil's shadow attacks while healing up Jolteon and Houndoom.

Spheal backup is nice. In my test run I've only had to use it once so far (against Naps's Rhyhorn before Lovrina) but it is a good pokemon. For teaching it Ice Beam, don't you have to purify it first?

I agree Shadow Half is awesome, and since I'm catching everything I'll have access to it, so I plan to abuse it. I already knew about the Thunderbolt/Flamethrower TMs for Jolteon and Houndoom, and I planned to teach them those as soon as I could.

The only thing that sort of gets me is Thunder's low PP. I know you get a good number of PPups in the game without really having to go out of your way to get them, but should those be used on Thunderbolt/Flamethrower to possibly increase their PP's instead? Since you'd be using them more often.

I don't know, I'm not to that point yet.

Also I think I'm going to use Master Ball on Dragonite, since I've heard he's harder to catch than Lugia is. Also, bringing a buuuunch of Shadow Pokemon (Salamence, Poliwrath, Marowak, Starmie etc) should help wall against Greevil's shadow attacks while healing up Jolteon and Houndoom.

Nightmare

2010-05-10 02:40:58 pm

Quote from Yamasaur:

Spheal backup is nice. In my test run I've only had to use it once so far (against Naps's Rhyhorn before Lovrina) but it is a good pokemon. For teaching it Ice Beam, don't you have to purify it first?

I agree Shadow Half is awesome, and since I'm catching everything I'll have access to it, so I plan to abuse it. I already knew about the Thunderbolt/Flamethrower TMs for Jolteon and Houndoom, and I planned to teach them those as soon as I could.

The only thing that sort of gets me is Thunder's low PP. I know you get a good number of PPups in the game without really having to go out of your way to get them, but should those be used on Thunderbolt/Flamethrower to possibly increase their PP's instead? Since you'd be using them more often.

I don't know, I'm not to that point yet.

Also I think I'm going to use Master Ball on Dragonite, since I've heard he's harder to catch than Lugia is. Also, bringing a buuuunch of Shadow Pokemon (Salamence, Poliwrath, Marowak, Starmie etc) should help wall against Greevil's shadow attacks while healing up Jolteon and Houndoom.

1. Spheal will be purifyable sometime after Exol, I'd highly recommend purifying him.

2. Thunder's accuracy is more of a problem than its low PP honestly. You just can't rely on it hitting: If you miss not only is it damage, but time lost.

3. I don't have to deal with Dragonite. Smiley

-James

[quote="Yamasaur"]
Spheal backup is nice. In my test run I've only had to use it once so far (against Naps's Rhyhorn before Lovrina) but it is a good pokemon. For teaching it Ice Beam, don't you have to purify it first?

I agree Shadow Half is awesome, and since I'm catching everything I'll have access to it, so I plan to abuse it. I already knew about the Thunderbolt/Flamethrower TMs for Jolteon and Houndoom, and I planned to teach them those as soon as I could.

The only thing that sort of gets me is Thunder's low PP. I know you get a good number of PPups in the game without really having to go out of your way to get them, but should those be used on Thunderbolt/Flamethrower to possibly increase their PP's instead? Since you'd be using them more often.

I don't know, I'm not to that point yet.

Also I think I'm going to use Master Ball on Dragonite, since I've heard he's harder to catch than Lugia is. Also, bringing a buuuunch of Shadow Pokemon (Salamence, Poliwrath, Marowak, Starmie etc) should help wall against Greevil's shadow attacks while healing up Jolteon and Houndoom.
[/quote]

1.  Spheal will be purifyable sometime after Exol, I'd highly recommend purifying him.

2.  Thunder's accuracy is more of a problem than its low PP honestly.  You just can't rely on it hitting:  If you miss not only is it damage, but time lost.

3.  I don't have to deal with Dragonite.  :)

-James

Hariyama465

2010-05-10 02:45:47 pm

Purifying Spheal is probably a good idea, but what about his level? It wouldn't be as high as Joltdoom.

Yeah I agree, the low accuracy sucks, but if I'm segmenting every shadow pokemon fight...

Which reminds me, what's your guys' consensus? Should I segment every Shadow Pokemon fight? Obviously it would reduce the amount of time significantly and make the whole run a bit easier...but what do you guys think?

Nightmare

2010-05-10 05:25:23 pm

Quote from Yamasaur:

Purifying Spheal is probably a good idea, but what about his level? It wouldn't be as high as Joltdoom.

Yeah I agree, the low accuracy sucks, but if I'm segmenting every shadow pokemon fight...

Which reminds me, what's your guys' consensus? Should I segment every Shadow Pokemon fight? Obviously it would reduce the amount of time significantly and make the whole run a bit easier...but what do you guys think?

The BIG areas I can see to segment so far:
1. Bigger Shadow Pokemon battles (especially those of 2+ Shadow Pokemon a piece)
2. Areas of the S.S. Libra (if you fall off that definitely costs time)
3. Any boss fight definitely (Lovrina, Exol, Snattle, Gorigan, Lovrina 2, Snattle 2, Ardos, Gorigan 2, Eldes, and Greevil)

Thunder WOULD work segmented. It'd hose me big time though doing SS.

-James

TheMG2

2010-05-10 06:05:35 pm

Quote from Nightmare:

Thunder WOULD work segmented. It'd hose me big time though doing SS.

-James

It MIGHT work. PP could be an issue in areas with lots of trainers (Thinking of Citadark Island).

Hariyama465

2010-05-10 06:08:53 pm

Oh definitely. Having a bunch of segments is understandable in a 100% run, but probably not as forgivable in an any % run.

Also, you didn't answer my question about Spheal's levels. Wouldn't he be too low level later on to make use of Ice Beam?

Also, MarioGalaxy, that's what PP Ups are for, for those looong areas with a bunch of trainers. But it still may not be enough, since it only brings Thunder to like 8.