Pokemon TCG for GBC (strategy discussion)

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-08-04 02:33:23 pm

2006-08-03 06:20:08 pm

Never give up!

This topic was inspired by a request made over in the requests thread, and I thought I'd start the talking because I have quite a bit of personal experience with this game.

Before you ask, no, I'm not committed to doing this myself. I just want to discuss ideas that would be involved in speedrunning this game.

You might wonder how a video game centered around a collectible card game could be speedrun. Well, that's the question right now. I imagine building one deck and changing it frequently to accomodate the situation would be the way to go. Generally, though, here's some Pokemon cards to consider:

-Machop (attacks that deal 20 damage - for just one energy)
-Staryu (see Machop)
-Rattata/Raticate (see Machop, except this is ANY energy)
-Hitmonchan (see Machop, PLUS 40 damage for three energy)
-Hitmonlee (able to hit anything on the bench for two energy, and a highly damaging attack for three)
-Electabuzz (chance of 40 damage for two energy. Useful on Thunder-weak enemies)
-Seaking (don't laugh just because it's in the practice deck. 30 guaranteed damage for two energy, especially when only one of it has to be Water)
-Nidoran Female (Pokemon-adding ability is useful, but the potential to do 30 damage in one attack is why I asked)
-Magmar L24 (Fire Punch is acceptable for two energy)
-Nidoran Male (30 for one energy, even if it doesn't always work, is insane)
-Nidoking (Toxic gets rid of those high-health Pokemon)
-Meowth (one version can allow the drawing of more cards faster, the other can hit random enemies without caring for weaknesses)
-Magnemite L13 (with Defender you take less damage from the aftershock of SelfDestruct, so you could conceivably blow up more than once)
-Kangaskhan (an excellent blocker, if I say so myself. And if you get four energy, that's one damaging attack. However, this guy only really works with Switch)

As for Trainer cards:
-Gambler (better than Professor Oak for refilling your hand, if for some reason you get a longer duel than usual)
-Professor Oak (for those times when you don't care about losing the cards)
-Bill (how did I forget about drawing two cards by playing this?)
-Poke Ball (finding any one Pokemon you want can easily speed things up)
-Switch (if for some reason your Pokemon comes under serious attack)
-PlusPower (duh)
-Defender (see Magnemite, above)
-Potion (the others make you discard energy, and that's risky)

I'll revise each list as I get ideas. What I'm looking for are Pokemon cards that deal lots of damage or have good special abilities, either of which should cost little energy (two or less), or trainer cards that can easily make battles go faster.

The other thing that has to be done is finding out which opponents to fight over and over for the right booster packs to build the deck.

I'm going to step aside and let others come up with ideas now.

Thread title:

This topic was inspired by a request made over in the requests thread, and I thought I'd start the talking because I have quite a bit of personal experience with this game.

Before you ask, no, I'm not committed to doing this myself.  I just want to discuss ideas that would be involved in speedrunning this game.

You might wonder how a video game centered around a collectible card game could be speedrun.  Well, that's the question right now.  I imagine building one deck and changing it frequently to accomodate the situation would be the way to go.  Generally, though, here's some Pokemon cards to consider:

-Machop (attacks that deal 20 damage - for just one energy)
-Staryu (see Machop)
-Rattata/Raticate (see Machop, except this is ANY energy)
-Hitmonchan (see Machop, PLUS 40 damage for three energy)
-Hitmonlee (able to hit anything on the bench for two energy, and a highly damaging attack for three)
-Electabuzz (chance of 40 damage for two energy.  Useful on Thunder-weak enemies)
-Seaking (don't laugh just because it's in the practice deck.  30 guaranteed damage for two energy, especially when only one of it has to be Water)
-Nidoran Female (Pokemon-adding ability is useful, but the potential to do 30 damage in one attack is why I asked)
-Magmar L24 (Fire Punch is acceptable for two energy)
-Nidoran Male (30 for one energy, even if it doesn't always work, is insane)
-Nidoking (Toxic gets rid of those high-health Pokemon)
-Meowth (one version can allow the drawing of more cards faster, the other can hit random enemies without caring for weaknesses)
-Magnemite L13 (with Defender you take less damage from the aftershock of SelfDestruct, so you could conceivably blow up more than once)
-Kangaskhan (an excellent blocker, if I say so myself.  And if you get four energy, that's one damaging attack.  However, this guy only really works with Switch)

As for Trainer cards:
-Gambler (better than Professor Oak for refilling your hand, if for some reason you get a longer duel than usual)
-Professor Oak (for those times when you don't care about losing the cards)
-Bill (how did I forget about drawing two cards by playing this?)
-Poke Ball (finding any one Pokemon you want can easily speed things up)
-Switch (if for some reason your Pokemon comes under serious attack)
-PlusPower (duh)
-Defender (see Magnemite, above)
-Potion (the others make you discard energy, and that's risky)

I'll revise each list as I get ideas.  What I'm looking for are Pokemon cards that deal lots of damage or have good special abilities, either of which should cost little energy (two or less), or trainer cards that can easily make battles go faster.

The other thing that has to be done is finding out which opponents to fight over and over for the right booster packs to build the deck.

I'm going to step aside and let others come up with ideas now.

Amazing Ampharos

2006-08-03 09:35:23 pm

I don't know which cards are in this game, but Bill should be a staple card. It's a trainer card that lets you draw two cards. I seem to recall Wigglytuff being really powerful too, but being evolved could be a problem.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-08-03 10:03:07 pm

2006-08-03 09:48:00 pm

Never give up!

Added your suggestion about Bill - Wigglytuff I'm going to have to investigate a little more.

As for what cards are in this game - I think there was the original, Jungle, and Fossil sets (not sure if I got all the names right). Plus, there's some game-specific cards (a Meowth with the ability to deal 20 damage to a random enemy Pokemon being one such card), but I don't have a full list of those.

Also, I'm not sure what the best deck to start off with would be in terms of getting the right cards at the start.

Hitaro

2006-08-03 09:51:53 pm

Wow, the Request Thread is actually being read Cheesy

I really hope someone eventually makes a run of this game, but it'll be pretty luck-focused, though.
I'd still like a run, though.

Lag.Com

2006-08-03 11:10:46 pm

sda loyalist

I beat the game the first time by making a deck with one Squirtle and one Blastoise in it, and all the cards which are needed to search junk out.

Might be hard to get the necessary Trainers without some serious luck (manipulation).

Still, it was funny. Smiley

AquaTiger

2006-08-04 12:29:33 am

Never give up!

I don't know if the spare cards at the start are affected by what deck you choose, but I do want to claim that the Bulbasaur & Friends deck is the one that gives the highest number of cards that are highly effective.

The one thing I do remember offhand is that if you beat Sam over and over, you can get booster packs full of nothing but energy cards. That'd be the fastest way to boost up the energy card stocks to where we need them to be.

Going to go update the card list up farther right now.

Yoshi348

2006-08-04 01:39:19 am

dinosaur from the past

How's the coin flipping animation in this game, as far as time goes? Most of what I remember about the Pokemon TCG is that there was WAAAAAY too much coin flipping.

So yeah, I'll be a sounding board for TCG game type stuff, but not for the particular cart.

petrie911

2006-08-04 04:11:36 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Hitmonchan is a good card if you can get it. 20 damage for 1 fighting energy and 40 for 2 fighting and a colorless.

Arrow

Edit history:

Arrow: 2006-08-04 01:18:25 pm

2006-08-04 12:54:01 pm

Now a hit show on the CW

I've been considering running this game for a long time, but wanted to wait until I had a few more traditional games under my belt before taking on something so unusual. I feel that it would definitely be a unique speed run, but I'm not sure how many people would be that interested in it. Basically, we're talking about 30 required card duels interspersed with pack opening and deck changes. The card games are rather slow, and would be pretty boring to anyone that isn't a fan of the card game (I used to be, hate to admit it :-[). Since the duels will make up most of the run, obviously the deck should be designed to make them as short as possible. The fastest way to end a duel is to KO all of your opponent's active pokemon, and the best way to do that is with a haymaker deck - one that focuses on the hard hitting/low energy pokemon (such as Machop, Magmar, Hitmonchan, and some of the other cards that have already been mentioned. If I do the run, this will be a tough adjustment for me since I prefer stall-type decks (my favorite cards are Lickitung, Chansey, and Exeggutor)... obviously the opposite of what you want for a speed run though Tongue

Anywho, one of the things I've been considering is which type of run would be better: segmented or single-seg. The segmented run has the potential to be extremely fast, since you can save before every match and keep resetting until you get ideal results (your opponent only starting with one pokemon in play, and you managing to KO it before s/he draws another). You could even reset to try to manipulate better cards from your reward packs. On the other hand, a SS run would probably be a lot more impressive since the runner would have to make deck change decisions on the fly, work with whatever cards they get in their packs, and possibly face some tough duels if luck doesn't go in their favor (haymakers are risky deck types, imo).

Anywho, I'm glad to see that more people than myself are interested in this. I might just have to move this game up a few spots in the queue...

EDIT: Forgot to mention that Wigglytuff decks probably wouldn't be best for a speed run, since they require you to get lots of pokemon on your bench to be truly effective. Just a waste of extra turns when a haymaker has the potential to end the match in 2-3 turns.

I've been considering running this game for a long time, but wanted to wait until I had a few more traditional games under my belt before taking on something so unusual. I feel that it would definitely be a unique speed run, but I'm not sure how many people would be that interested in it. Basically, we're talking about 30 required card duels interspersed with pack opening and deck changes. The card games are rather slow, and would be pretty boring to anyone that isn't a fan of the card game (I used to be, hate to admit it :-[). Since the duels will make up most of the run, obviously the deck should be designed to make them as short as possible. The fastest way to end a duel is to KO all of your opponent's active pokemon, and the best way to do that is with a haymaker deck - one that focuses on the hard hitting/low energy pokemon (such as Machop, Magmar, Hitmonchan, and some of the other cards that have already been mentioned. If I do the run, this will be a tough adjustment for me since I prefer stall-type decks (my favorite cards are Lickitung, Chansey, and Exeggutor)... obviously the opposite of what you want for a speed run though :P

Anywho, one of the things I've been considering is which type of run would be better: segmented or single-seg. The segmented run has the potential to be extremely fast, since you can save before every match and keep resetting until you get ideal results (your opponent only starting with one pokemon in play, and you managing to KO it before s/he draws another). You could even reset to try to manipulate better cards from your reward packs. On the other hand, a SS run would probably be a lot more impressive since the runner would have to make deck change decisions on the fly, work with whatever cards they get in their packs, and possibly face some tough duels if luck doesn't go in their favor (haymakers are risky deck types, imo).

Anywho, I'm glad to see that more people than myself are interested in this. I might just have to move this game up a few spots in the queue...

EDIT: Forgot to mention that Wigglytuff decks probably wouldn't be best for a speed run, since they require you to get lots of pokemon on your bench to be truly effective. Just a waste of extra turns when a haymaker has the potential to end the match in 2-3 turns.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-08-04 02:46:03 pm

2006-08-04 02:42:21 pm

Never give up!

I would actually suggest single-segment - it's less sanity-taxing.

What I suggest for a strategy is facing Sam five times and then adjusting your strategy to what he gives. Hopefully Sam focused on two energy types. Build your deck mostly around those two types, particularly as you start getting more cards. I say hope for Fighting and Lightning - as far as I know, those two hold the best potential. After stopping at the Fighting Club - triggering the three students' appearance in the other clubs - you want to find the one that's going to be weakest to the types that are in your deck (in the case of Fighting and Lightning, I suggest going for the Water Club). I think it'd be smart to hit the Fighting Club as one of the last three, since you've built a very solid deck by then and it's really a contest between haymaker decks.

Anyway, as far as Sam (in case my suggestion would be taken), here's a quicker way to beat him:
-Start with Staryu, and have Goldeen on the bench. Give Staryu a Water energy and attack.
-Next turn, put a Water energy on Goldeen and attack with Staryu again. Staryu should get knocked out this turn, so put Goldeen up.
-Now, put any energy you want on Goldeen and evolve it to Seaking. Either attack is fine for now.
-When Sam puts up the Rattata/Raticate, use Waterfall like there's no tomorrow. You should win before you'd normally draw Starmie.

5 duels would mean taking about 10-12 minutes to get the energy cards you'd need. And energy cards are pretty rare in other packs, so this is a wiser investment. Maybe facing him more might be necessary to get enough energy, I don't know.

I would actually suggest single-segment - it's less sanity-taxing.

What I suggest for a strategy is facing Sam five times and then adjusting your strategy to what he gives.  Hopefully Sam focused on two energy types.  Build your deck mostly around those two types, particularly as you start getting more cards.  I say hope for Fighting and Lightning - as far as I know, those two hold the best potential.  After stopping at the Fighting Club - triggering the three students' appearance in the other clubs - you want to find the one that's going to be weakest to the types that are in your deck (in the case of Fighting and Lightning, I suggest going for the Water Club).  I think it'd be smart to hit the Fighting Club as one of the last three, since you've built a very solid deck by then and it's really a contest between haymaker decks.

Anyway, as far as Sam (in case my suggestion would be taken), here's a quicker way to beat him:
-Start with Staryu, and have Goldeen on the bench.  Give Staryu a Water energy and attack.
-Next turn, put a Water energy on Goldeen and attack with Staryu again.  Staryu should get knocked out this turn, so put Goldeen up.
-Now, put any energy you want on Goldeen and evolve it to Seaking.  Either attack is fine for now.
-When Sam puts up the Rattata/Raticate, use Waterfall like there's no tomorrow.  You should win before you'd normally draw Starmie.

5 duels would mean taking about 10-12 minutes to get the energy cards you'd need.  And energy cards are pretty rare in other packs, so this is a wiser investment.  Maybe facing him more might be necessary to get enough energy, I don't know.

ForteGS

2006-08-04 03:36:18 pm

Bring me the flaming voodoo canonball!

The bad part with the fighting part of your deck is the final duel. Since your rival uses the LEGENDARY BIRD Cards. Which reduces damage because Fight<Bird if i am correct.

AquaTiger

2006-08-04 03:57:09 pm

Never give up!

Well, you're right, but by then we should be able to have a backup plan in place for just such an occasion. I mean, we'll have acquired, what, 60+ booster packs by then? We ought to have found SOMETHING good to switch in.

There's one particular player in the Lightning Gym that's going to be a pain as well. The one with the Pikachu-centered deck. All because of that #$%^#^@#%^@ FLYING PIKACHU.

Lag.Com

Edit history:

Lag.Com: 2006-08-04 09:36:50 pm

2006-08-04 09:35:22 pm

sda loyalist

Yeah, Flying Pikachu is freaking mental. I suggest you stick with the 1 Energy -> 20 Damage pokemon at the beginning, fill your deck with Bill and Oak, and feature one 'Killer' pokemon which can spell disaster for any deck (i.e. Arcanine, any Starter second evolution) as a centerpiece.

Computer Searches are always a plus. Hell, Pokemon Breeders to an extent. This is why my 1 Squirtle, 1 Blastoise deck always won on that game. Smiley

Arrow

Edit history:

Arrow: 2006-08-04 11:07:48 pm

2006-08-04 11:05:56 pm

Now a hit show on the CW

Quote:

What I suggest for a strategy is facing Sam five times and then adjusting your strategy to what he gives.

Hmmm, I don't know... that's really eating up a lot of extra time, but I suppose it might be necessary for a SS run. It might be better to focus on one type of energy (the type your starter deck focuses on) and colorless pokemon, go after whichever gym is weak to your type first, and then start switching things up once you've acquired more packs (and energy). I just worry about doing any unnecessary duels; they're really slow. I think five extra matches against Sam would take significantly longer than 10-12 minutes, but I could be wrong.

By the way, I think the Squirtle starting deck would probably be best for our purposes. It has two of the best haymaker pokemon (Magmar, Electabuzz) and some fairly decent pokemon to hold you over until you can expand your deck (Seel/Dewgong, Staryu/Starmie, Growlithe/Arcanine, Rattata/Raticate, Magnemite if you decide to use the Defender trick). Plus, it starts you off with 11 water energy, while Charmander only gives you 10 fire and Bulbasaur a measly 9 grass.

[quote]What I suggest for a strategy is facing Sam five times and then adjusting your strategy to what he gives.[/quote]
Hmmm, I don't know... that's really eating up a lot of extra time, but I suppose it might be necessary for a SS run. It might be better to focus on one type of energy (the type your starter deck focuses on) and colorless pokemon, go after whichever gym is weak to your type first, and then start switching things up once you've acquired more packs (and energy). I just worry about doing any unnecessary duels; they're really slow. I think five extra matches against Sam would take significantly longer than 10-12 minutes, but I could be wrong.

By the way, I think the Squirtle starting deck would probably be best for our purposes. It has two of the best haymaker pokemon (Magmar, Electabuzz) and some fairly decent pokemon to hold you over until you can expand your deck (Seel/Dewgong, Staryu/Starmie, Growlithe/Arcanine, Rattata/Raticate, Magnemite if you decide to use the Defender trick). Plus, it starts you off with 11 water energy, while Charmander only gives you 10 fire and Bulbasaur a measly 9 grass.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-08-04 11:59:37 pm

2006-08-04 11:58:41 pm

Never give up!

Well, the time for the five extra matches are judging from my reading the game timer after doing all five. I was going through fairly fast, as well. Remember, they're normal duels, with text speed at maximum and all animations off (I assume the run would be done this way). The strategy I listed a while back makes the fights fairly quick.

I will say that if you are doing an SS run, the first order of business is to cut the deck down to two energy types (not counting colorless as a type, as that's something of a joker) in order to make it more reliable. For some reason I find three types in a deck is too risky, but while one-type decks make some areas a lot easier, I find that means too much rebuilding is necessary.

I have some other cards to consider, by the way:
-Energy Search (trainer card; go find any one basic energy in your deck and put it in your hand. Might come in handy especially in two-type decks)
-Dugtrio (could be useful for aggressive tactics if a battle should go late in an SS. Diglett isn't godawful, either, though a little weak)
-Beedrill (a fairly powerful Grass Pokemon, even though his stronger attack is a bit of a gamble. Weedle and Kakuna admittedly don't offer too much)
-Eevee's evolutions (you want the GB editions - both Vaporeon and Flareon will have Bite and Jolteon will have Stun Needle. Why so good? These versions can probably fit into just about any deck because THESE versions can use ANY type of energy for their attacks, which makes their costs a little more bearable)
-Double Colorless Energy (not going to work with everything, but if you can use energy of any type to fill in, this works wonders)
-Cloyster (Shellder might work for some stalling tactics, but Cloyster has some power here. Kinda risky though)

I'm working on getting together a list of what opponents carry what kinds of booster packs. I understand this knowledge, combined with a list of worthwhile Pokemon from each booster pack that will come later, could only really be applied to a segmented run unless an SS really NEEDS a certain card, but I should note it nevertheless. Here's what I have so far:

Rock Club:
-Ryan has Evolution booster packs.
-Andrew has Colosseum booster packs.
-Both Matthew and Gene (Leader) have Mystery booster packs.

Well, the time for the five extra matches are judging from my reading the game timer after doing all five.  I was going through fairly fast, as well.  Remember, they're normal duels, with text speed at maximum and all animations off (I assume the run would be done this way).  The strategy I listed a while back makes the fights fairly quick.

I will say that if you are doing an SS run, the first order of business is to cut the deck down to two energy types (not counting colorless as a type, as that's something of a joker) in order to make it more reliable.  For some reason I find three types in a deck is too risky, but while one-type decks make some areas a lot easier, I find that means too much rebuilding is necessary.

I have some other cards to consider, by the way:
-Energy Search (trainer card; go find any one basic energy in your deck and put it in your hand.  Might come in handy especially in two-type decks)
-Dugtrio (could be useful for aggressive tactics if a battle should go late in an SS.  Diglett isn't godawful, either, though a little weak)
-Beedrill (a fairly powerful Grass Pokemon, even though his stronger attack is a bit of a gamble.  Weedle and Kakuna admittedly don't offer too much)
-Eevee's evolutions (you want the GB editions - both Vaporeon and Flareon will have Bite and Jolteon will have Stun Needle.  Why so good?  These versions can probably fit into just about any deck because THESE versions can use ANY type of energy for their attacks, which makes their costs a little more bearable)
-Double Colorless Energy (not going to work with everything, but if you can use energy of any type to fill in, this works wonders)
-Cloyster (Shellder might work for some stalling tactics, but Cloyster has some power here.  Kinda risky though)

I'm working on getting together a list of what opponents carry what kinds of booster packs.  I understand this knowledge, combined with a list of worthwhile Pokemon from each booster pack that will come later, could only really be applied to a segmented run unless an SS really NEEDS a certain card, but I should note it nevertheless.  Here's what I have so far:

Rock Club:
-Ryan has Evolution booster packs.
-Andrew has Colosseum booster packs.
-Both Matthew and Gene (Leader) have Mystery booster packs.

AKA

Edit history:

AKA: 2006-08-05 12:28:31 am

2006-08-05 12:24:59 am

He's back!

Very interesting game I have to admit, but I think a TAS would be more fun to watch than a non-assisted speedrun. I borrowed and completed this game some time ago, some of the rules aren't applied properly as they should be in tourament play, since I remember having a long read of the official rules from the original base deck and finding inconsistencies between that and the virtual rules of TCG. But isnt doing a Segmented run a problem since the game is saved when the power is turned off (if I remember correctly). I also remember holding B causes the decks to be shuffled quicker. As has been mentioned earlier avoid using evoution pokemon and stick to basic ones. The one think I remember is that back in the height of when the TCG was around I remember a lot of people won with a deck containing

hitmonchan X4
electabuzz X4
scyther (very useful) X4

and with variations of energy cards and trainer cards

However, that isn't all that great if you want to win a match very quickly, but it does provide consistent victories.

When I played through the game I remember being very successful with a Moltres,Articuno and Kangaskhan deck

Kangashan = draws cards quickly has a lot of hp and is colourless with an attack that does 40 damage on average

Articuno = no weakness has a resistance and attacks do reasonable damage but one of them has a drawback if you get an unfavourable coin toss.

Moltres = no weakness has a resistance and its main attack does an insane amount of damage but is decided whether it hits on a coin toss. Also when its main attack isn't ready it can discard cards from the opponents hand.

This probally ureasonable to get a deck like that and would probally be time consuming to build up that kind deck and then to use it as well.

I have to admit when I tried to mindlessy blast through the game some time back, I was able to get to the final guy relatively quickly although being very lucky in many of the battles, but that legendry bird trainer simply pwned me every time so I there needs to be a good strategy for beating him since if cards existed in the real world we would all be using them and trading whole sets just so we could get a hold of the birds.

Very interesting game I have to admit, but I think a TAS would be more fun to watch than a non-assisted speedrun. I borrowed and completed this game some time ago, some of the rules aren't applied properly as they should be in tourament play, since I remember having a long read of the official rules from the original base deck and finding inconsistencies between that and the virtual rules of TCG. But isnt doing a Segmented run a problem since the game is saved when the power is turned off (if I remember correctly). I also remember holding B causes the decks to be shuffled quicker. As has been mentioned earlier avoid using evoution pokemon and stick to basic ones. The one think I remember is that back in the height of when the TCG was around I remember a lot of people won with a deck containing

hitmonchan X4
electabuzz X4
scyther (very useful) X4

and with variations of energy cards and trainer cards

However, that isn't all that great if you want to win a match very quickly, but it does provide consistent victories.

When I played through the game I remember being very successful with a Moltres,Articuno and Kangaskhan deck

Kangashan = draws cards quickly has a lot of hp and is colourless with an attack that does 40 damage on average

Articuno = no weakness has a resistance and attacks do reasonable damage but one of them has a drawback if you get an unfavourable coin toss.

Moltres = no weakness has a resistance and its main attack does an insane amount of damage but is decided whether it hits on a coin toss. Also when its main attack isn't ready it can discard cards from the opponents hand.

This probally ureasonable to get a deck like that and would probally be time consuming to build up that kind deck and then to use it as well.

I have to admit when I tried to mindlessy blast through the game some time back, I was able to get to the final guy relatively quickly although being very lucky in many of the battles, but that legendry bird trainer simply pwned me every time so I there needs to be a good strategy for beating him since if cards existed in the real world we would all be using them and trading whole sets just so we could get a hold of the birds.

Arrow

Edit history:

Arrow: 2006-08-05 01:27:35 am

2006-08-05 01:05:34 am

Now a hit show on the CW

I realized one flaw with starting with the Squirtle deck - the fire club leader can't be challenged until you have a minimum of 130 cards. I still think it's the best starter deck, but you'll have to take your chances in one of the other clubs first. Another possible strategy would be to talk to every club leader (except grass, since she isn't there yet, lightning, since talking to him won't trigger the email yet, and water, since you can't directly talk to her yet. Strange how talking to the guy that stops you before Rick DOES trigger the email, but the one before Amy doesn't) before doing any duels... you'll get a pack in the mail for each one. So that's five packs plus the one you get automatically when you start your game right off the bat.

Here's a pretty good FAQ I've been referring to... lists out the reward packs you get, so it should save you some work, Aqua Wink

http://db.gamefaqs.com/portable/gbcolor/file/pokemon_tcg_i.txt

EDIT:

Quote:

But isnt doing a Segmented run a problem since the game is saved when the power is turned off (if I remember correctly). I also remember holding B causes the decks to be shuffled quicker.

The game is saved by selecting diary in the menu. The game will automatically be saved if you quit during a duel, but when you resume the game, you'll be given the choice of continuing the duel or starting from where you last saved. Pressing B at the beginning of duels completely skips the shuffling/dealing animations.

EDIT #2: I started a new game to test some things out... so far, it seems like the science club might be the best one to start with. The two duels there are fairly easy to win.

I realized one flaw with starting with the Squirtle deck - the fire club leader can't be challenged until you have a minimum of 130 cards. I still think it's the best starter deck, but you'll have to take your chances in one of the other clubs first. Another possible strategy would be to talk to every club leader (except grass, since she isn't there yet, lightning, since talking to him won't trigger the email yet, and water, since you can't directly talk to her yet. Strange how talking to the guy that stops you before Rick DOES trigger the email, but the one before Amy doesn't) before doing any duels... you'll get a pack in the mail for each one. So that's five packs plus the one you get automatically when you start your game right off the bat.

Here's a pretty good FAQ I've been referring to... lists out the reward packs you get, so it should save you some work, Aqua ;)

http://db.gamefaqs.com/portable/gbcolor/file/pokemon_tcg_i.txt

EDIT:
[quote]But isnt doing a Segmented run a problem since the game is saved when the power is turned off (if I remember correctly). I also remember holding B causes the decks to be shuffled quicker.[/quote]
The game is saved by selecting diary in the menu. The game will automatically be saved if you quit during a duel, but when you resume the game, you'll be given the choice of continuing the duel or starting from where you last saved. Pressing B at the beginning of duels completely skips the shuffling/dealing animations.

EDIT #2: I started a new game to test some things out... so far, it seems like the science club might be the best one to start with. The two duels there are fairly easy to win.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-08-05 02:52:27 am

2006-08-05 02:48:23 am

Never give up!

That guide, further down, also lists all possible booster pack contents, so that REALLY saves me trouble. Now what we need to do is figure out the club order in order to give us the best chance of having the cards we want.

Just for random speculation, I say Water, Fire, Rock, Lightning, Grass, Fighting, Science, Psychic. This was derived by the following facts:
-Psychic needs to be 3rd or later (the members are stuck-up and won't face you until you face Ronald for the first time, which requires two medals) and is one of the hardest clubs IMO, so we NEED to be prepared.
-One of the 'haymaker' cards, Electabuzz, is insanely good against Water, and the Water Club has two of the shortest duels if memory serves me, so that's easy cards to get ready for another club.
-The Rock, Grass, and Fire Clubs all need to be at least visited before you can beat the Fighting Club leader anyway, so why not clear them out while we're at it?
-You can EASILY have 130 cards by the time you face Ken on this route.

Feel free to give reasons for this route not being optimal.

I'm going to put a guess at 4 hours for a single-segment run, by the way, before I forget.

There's this one guy that randomly shows up in the card club lounges after you talk to someone in the Water Club, and I know if you beat that guy, you get one of each kind of booster pack. That might be something to look into early on as well.

That guide, further down, also lists all possible booster pack contents, so that REALLY saves me trouble.  Now what we need to do is figure out the club order in order to give us the best chance of having the cards we want.

Just for random speculation, I say Water, Fire, Rock, Lightning, Grass, Fighting, Science, Psychic.  This was derived by the following facts:
-Psychic needs to be 3rd or later (the members are stuck-up and won't face you until you face Ronald for the first time, which requires two medals) and is one of the hardest clubs IMO, so we NEED to be prepared.
-One of the 'haymaker' cards, Electabuzz, is insanely good against Water, and the Water Club has two of the shortest duels if memory serves me, so that's easy cards to get ready for another club.
-The Rock, Grass, and Fire Clubs all need to be at least visited before you can beat the Fighting Club leader anyway, so why not clear them out while we're at it?
-You can EASILY have 130 cards by the time you face Ken on this route.

Feel free to give reasons for this route not being optimal.

I'm going to put a guess at 4 hours for a single-segment run, by the way, before I forget.

There's this one guy that randomly shows up in the card club lounges after you talk to someone in the Water Club, and I know if you beat that guy, you get one of each kind of booster pack.  That might be something to look into early on as well.

Lag.Com

Edit history:

Lag.Com: 2006-08-05 08:24:24 am

2006-08-05 08:20:12 am

sda loyalist

You mean Imakumi? Yes, he's also (usually) very easy to win against, so beat him if you see him.

Man, I want to make a TAS of this right now.

Arrow

2006-08-05 11:57:07 am

Now a hit show on the CW

Looking over the cards now, I have to agree that the Eevee-lutions could be useful against many opponents. The trouble is getting them :-/ As far as the booster packs are concerned, Colosseum is by far the best for our purposes. It contains all of our main haymakers (Magmar, Scyther, Electabuzz, Machop, and Hitmonchan) as well as the regular energy types and the most important trainer cards (Bill, Prof. Oak, Plus Power, Defender, Pokeball, Potion). After that, Mystery is probably the next best pack type, mainly for Energy Removal and Double Colorless Energy.

Doing a "test run" right now, and it seems to me that in the beginning of the game, lack of energy is going to be less of a concern than lack of pokemon. You really don't have enough to make a strong dual-colored deck yet, regardless of how much energy you would need. However, considering that getting energy from boosters is fairly rare, I have to admit that facing Sam a few times will probably be necessary, unfortunately. Imakuni is another matter. The four booster packs is a nice draw, especially considering how easy he is, but it's just more unnecessary battles... and you can't even be certain that the pay off will be worth it since you may not get any good cards.

Quote:

Just for random speculation, I say Water, Fire, Rock, Lightning, Grass, Fighting, Science, Psychic.

The reason I chose to start with Science is because the duels there are so easy that you'll be able to win them even if you don't get lucky with your first six boosters (using the email strategy I mentioned in my last post). Water might be better at third or fourth... I don't think you'll have enough good electric type pokemon before that point. Having more than one Electabuzz before then would take a lot of luck. I agree about doing the rock, electric, and grass clubs before fighting so you can take out the club members along the way. Probably a good idea to save psychic for last. So the order I'm leaning towards might be more like: Science, Rock, Fire, Water, Grass, Electric, Fighting, Psychic. But this also doesn't take into account which duels reward you with Colosseum boosters, which is an important thing to consider...

Anywho, if anyone cares, here's the deck I used to beat the two Science club matches:

Pokemon:
Fire-
Charmander x 2
Charmeleon
Growlithe
Arcanine
Magmar lvl 24
Magmar lvl 31
Water-
Seel x 2
Dewgong
Horsea
Seadra
Goldeen x 2
Seaking x 2
Staryu
Starmie
Fighting-
Machop x 2
Machoke
Geodude x 2
Hitmonlee
Hitmonchan
Colorless:
Rattata x 2
Raticate
Jigglypuff lvl 13
Meowth lvl 14

Trainers:
Prof. Oak
Bill
Energy Retrieval
Poke Ball
Scoop Up
Item Finder
Potion
Full Heal

Energy:
Fire x 4
Water x 11
Fighting x 7

Like I said, I really lacked enough strong pokemon to go dual-type, but this deck worked out just fine in the science club. Still don't have any strong electric pokemon (other than my single Electabuzz). The most glaring flaw in this deck is the 4 fire energy, but that could easily be fixed by dueling Sam a couple times.

Looking over the cards now, I have to agree that the Eevee-lutions could be useful against many opponents. The trouble is getting them :-/ As far as the booster packs are concerned, Colosseum is by far the best for our purposes. It contains all of our main haymakers (Magmar, Scyther, Electabuzz, Machop, and Hitmonchan) as well as the regular energy types and the most important trainer cards (Bill, Prof. Oak, Plus Power, Defender, Pokeball, Potion). After that, Mystery is probably the next best pack type, mainly for Energy Removal and Double Colorless Energy.

Doing a "test run" right now, and it seems to me that in the beginning of the game, lack of energy is going to be less of a concern than lack of pokemon. You really don't have enough to make a strong dual-colored deck yet, regardless of how much energy you would need. However, considering that getting energy from boosters is fairly rare, I have to admit that facing Sam a few times will probably be necessary, unfortunately. Imakuni is another matter. The four booster packs is a nice draw, especially considering how easy he is, but it's just more unnecessary battles... and you can't even be certain that the pay off will be worth it since you may not get any good cards.

[quote] Just for random speculation, I say Water, Fire, Rock, Lightning, Grass, Fighting, Science, Psychic.[/quote]
The reason I chose to start with Science is because the duels there are so easy that you'll be able to win them even if you don't get lucky with your first six boosters (using the email strategy I mentioned in my last post). Water might be better at third or fourth... I don't think you'll have enough good electric type pokemon before that point. Having more than one Electabuzz before then would take a lot of luck. I agree about doing the rock, electric, and grass clubs before fighting so you can take out the club members along the way. Probably a good idea to save psychic for last. So the order I'm leaning towards might be more like: Science, Rock, Fire, Water, Grass, Electric, Fighting, Psychic. But this also doesn't take into account which duels reward you with Colosseum boosters, which is an important thing to consider...

Anywho, if anyone cares, here's the deck I used to beat the two Science club matches:

Pokemon:
Fire-
Charmander x 2
Charmeleon
Growlithe
Arcanine
Magmar lvl 24
Magmar lvl 31
Water-
Seel x 2
Dewgong
Horsea
Seadra
Goldeen x 2
Seaking x 2
Staryu
Starmie
Fighting-
Machop x 2
Machoke
Geodude x 2
Hitmonlee
Hitmonchan
Colorless:
Rattata x 2
Raticate
Jigglypuff lvl 13
Meowth lvl 14

Trainers:
Prof. Oak
Bill
Energy Retrieval
Poke Ball
Scoop Up
Item Finder
Potion
Full Heal

Energy:
Fire x 4
Water x 11
Fighting x 7

Like I said, I really lacked enough strong pokemon to go dual-type, but this deck worked out just fine in the science club. Still don't have any strong electric pokemon (other than my single Electabuzz). The most glaring flaw in this deck is the 4 fire energy, but that could easily be fixed by dueling Sam a couple times.

Lando_Kashmir

2006-08-05 02:05:08 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

It takes so much luck, I doubt you'd be able to get a decent speed run off of a single-segment TCG run...

As someone who's played this game a LOT, you'll probably want to be using Hitmonchan, Magmar lv 31, Electabuzz lv 35, and possibly Scyther the most. The whole Magnemite Defender+selfdestruct thing rarely works out well, but it's worth a try.

Lag.Com

2006-08-05 08:58:30 pm

sda loyalist

I've been analysing the internal memory of the GBC rom while playing, today, and I've found out all the bits of memory I'll need to do the TAS (my deck order, opponent's hand, booster cards). Also, they're very easily manipulable; the only thing that isn't is the coin...

Heh heh heh. Smiley

I'm working on my Klonoa one first, though.

I couldn't work out how the booster cards are randomly generated, though.

yoshmaster5

2006-08-06 03:19:14 am

Also tenkiforecast

Hm... I'm probably a little late to this... *looks* really late acutally, but oh well.

I have a book that lists tourney-winning decks, the two that would work for a speed run being a 'Blitz' strategy, and an evolution deck. The kind is listed below, the Hitmonchan/Scyther/Electabuzz comboes. Machop is also good for the 20 attack and decent HP.

Personally I'd suggest against Cloyster, with low HP and coin flips... anything with a lot of luck is iffy. usually it doesn't matter *YAY BAD PAUSE SYSTEM! =D* but in this case, it may. Good luck with anything... I may pull it out and help, but I wouldn't run this.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-08-06 03:52:23 am

2006-08-06 03:49:24 am

Never give up!

I had more thoughts as far as deck construction, assuming our starting deck is indeed Squirtle & Friends. Only wrinkle is that Rock has to be the sixth club in this situation, with Fighting and Psychic as the last two.

Early on, go with a Fighting/Water theme, with Machop, Staryu, and Hitmonchan as major stars (if you need a 'finishing' Pokemon here, Machamp or Blastoise would be it). You're going to want to swap in the GB-exclusive variants of Jolteon, Flareon, and Vaporeon HERE to deal with the Water, Grass, and Fire Clubs respectively - like I said before, those three take any energy.

After you've dealt with the Water and Fire Clubs, but no later than the end of the fifth club, switch to a Grass/Fire haymaker variant, with Scyther, Nidoran Male, Magmar, and Rapidash as main Pokemon (hopefully you can pack a Charizard or Arcanine as well. I'd guess Beedrill or, if you're lucky, Exeggutor for the Grass finisher).

Once you've reached Courtney, I say a Lightning/Fire haymaker variant should serve the rest of your needs, packing Magmar, Rapidash, Electabuzz, and either Jolteon (Raichu's a decent Lightning finisher, and if for some reason you couldn't get a Charizard, Arcanine should be your Fire finisher).

The logic here is mainly trying to prevent you from ever being weak to the enemy Pokemon, although I admit that it's not done that well in the case of the Lightning Club (half your deck's weak, the other half is super effective). Considering that weakness in the Pokemon TCG means double damage, that's something I considered fairly important.

My addition of 'finisher' Pokemon to the deck types is only if this winds up an SS run, because undoubtedly you're going to get at least one drawn-out duel that calls for a good finisher in that situation. If it's going to be segmented and luck going to be abused, forget about even throwing in the finishers in the first place.

I had more thoughts as far as deck construction, assuming our starting deck is indeed Squirtle & Friends.  Only wrinkle is that Rock has to be the sixth club in this situation, with Fighting and Psychic as the last two.

Early on, go with a Fighting/Water theme, with Machop, Staryu, and Hitmonchan as major stars (if you need a 'finishing' Pokemon here, Machamp or Blastoise would be it).  You're going to want to swap in the GB-exclusive variants of Jolteon, Flareon, and Vaporeon HERE to deal with the Water, Grass, and Fire Clubs respectively - like I said before, those three take any energy.

After you've dealt with the Water and Fire Clubs, but no later than the end of the fifth club, switch to a Grass/Fire haymaker variant, with Scyther, Nidoran Male, Magmar, and Rapidash as main Pokemon (hopefully you can pack a Charizard or Arcanine as well.  I'd guess Beedrill or, if you're lucky, Exeggutor for the Grass finisher).

Once you've reached Courtney, I say a Lightning/Fire haymaker variant should serve the rest of your needs, packing Magmar, Rapidash, Electabuzz, and either Jolteon (Raichu's a decent Lightning finisher, and if for some reason you couldn't get a Charizard, Arcanine should be your Fire finisher).

The logic here is mainly trying to prevent you from ever being weak to the enemy Pokemon, although I admit that it's not done that well in the case of the Lightning Club (half your deck's weak, the other half is super effective).  Considering that weakness in the Pokemon TCG means double damage, that's something I considered fairly important.

My addition of 'finisher' Pokemon to the deck types is only if this winds up an SS run, because undoubtedly you're going to get at least one drawn-out duel that calls for a good finisher in that situation.  If it's going to be segmented and luck going to be abused, forget about even throwing in the finishers in the first place.

yoshmaster5

2006-08-06 01:40:20 pm

Also tenkiforecast

Sounds like a good idea... I'd say the hardest one however would be the Legendary Zapdos person *can't remember name* ;_;

My only advice is getting lightning resistant cards, hopefully, and maybe lessen the weaknesses.