Pokemon Gold/Silver

2006-10-28 09:29:02 am

Bring me the flaming voodoo canonball!

Quote:

Catching the three legendary beasts will take too much time, since it's dumb luck to see them for the first time.

Did i say all 3 Legendary beasts... No, i only said Raikou.
Its Lv 40, and i said, only in a Segmented run. Reset if it takes to much time.

Yoshi348

2006-10-28 04:10:56 pm

dinosaur from the past

It's um... completely fucking random though.

ForteGS

2006-10-28 04:15:23 pm

Bring me the flaming voodoo canonball!

So? As long as the run is segmented, he could restart the segment if it takes too long to encounter it.

Heck he might be lucky.

Amazing Ampharos

2006-10-28 10:00:08 pm

It's luck, but it's pre-determined luck as you could get unlucky and all three could be really far away from you. Then no matter how many attempts you made, you would never find one.

Veritate

2006-10-28 10:14:36 pm

Why not just stick to those legendaries where you know they are there...?

Catching one of the three dogs sounds ridiculous to me, even in a segmented run. It's... more luck than skill, and don't even hope to encounter one quickly.

Amazing Ampharos

2006-10-29 06:18:38 pm

Okay, Lugia is 100% unrealistic; you lose a riduculous amount of time going into the Whirl Islands. If you'd play on Gold, Ho-oh might be fairly realistic since you get the Rainbow Wing as a storyline event. The only downside is coming at level 40, but you get Sacred Fire so that's pretty cool.

AquaTiger

2007-01-14 05:36:57 am

Never give up!

Okay, I suddenly thought of a different plan as far as a single-segment run of this game.

I will still go with either Cyndaquil or Totodile at the start. I will still catch a Pidgey and a Poliwag as soon as I can.

However, I will skip out on Mareep and Abra entirely. I still catch the Drowzee to trade.... and from there, I'm considering having the Machop be the ONLY Pokemon I use. Why? The experience boost from the trade and the fact Machoke is one of the stronger Pokemon out there.

Note that this is likely to be the only way I'd consider using just one Pokemon in an SS run.

Other than knowing exactly what moves to have when, I still have three areas to work on with this, though - Morty, Sabrina, and then Red. For Morty - and I realize this is an iffy idea, but I'd like others if you can come up with them - I'm considering filling two of Machop's move slots with the element punches. One of these will be Ice Punch, a move I'll hold on to until I can get Earthquake.

Sabrina's the one that really concerns me. I really, REALLY hope Machoke's speed is decent enough to outrun her trio, or else I have problems (I won't have time to use an X Speed before I get into real danger or perhaps suffer an OHKO). I note that Brown_Bomber's Feraligatr was 11 levels higher than Sabrina's initial Espeon, though, so if my levels wind up close to that run's levels, I may be able to get away with this fight.

The only issue with Red is his Espeon, which I'm pretty sure he's going to use second. My current plan is to use one or two X Speed during the fight with Pikachu, then one X Attack, then sweep Red's team with the strongest moves I have.

Okay, I suddenly thought of a different plan as far as a single-segment run of this game.

I will still go with either Cyndaquil or Totodile at the start.  I will still catch a Pidgey and a Poliwag as soon as I can.

However, I will skip out on Mareep and Abra entirely.  I still catch the Drowzee to trade.... and from there, I'm considering having the Machop be the ONLY Pokemon I use.  Why?  The experience boost from the trade and the fact Machoke is one of the stronger Pokemon out there.

Note that this is likely to be the only way I'd consider using just one Pokemon in an SS run.

Other than knowing exactly what moves to have when, I still have three areas to work on with this, though - Morty, Sabrina, and then Red.  For Morty - and I realize this is an iffy idea, but I'd like others if you can come up with them - I'm considering filling two of Machop's move slots with the element punches.  One of these will be Ice Punch, a move I'll hold on to until I can get Earthquake.

Sabrina's the one that really concerns me.  I really, REALLY hope Machoke's speed is decent enough to outrun her trio, or else I have problems (I won't have time to use an X Speed before I get into real danger or perhaps suffer an OHKO).  I note that Brown_Bomber's Feraligatr was 11 levels higher than Sabrina's initial Espeon, though, so if my levels wind up close to that run's levels, I may be able to get away with this fight.

The only issue with Red is his Espeon, which I'm pretty sure he's going to use second.  My current plan is to use one or two X Speed during the fight with Pikachu, then one X Attack, then sweep Red's team with the strongest moves I have.

petrie911

2007-01-14 06:19:40 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

I'm not so sure about Machop beating Morty with elemental punches. His base special attack is only 35, which is very, very low. Gastly has the same base special defense, and haunter and Gengar have even higher.

Still, I suppose if you luck manipulate on Freeze/Para/Burn, you could do it.

AquaTiger

2007-01-14 11:14:56 pm

Never give up!

Well, I'd been looking for alternatives to giving Machop the elemental punches.

And so far, the only one I've found is an item in the National Park north of Goldenrod called TM28. That's right, I'm considering getting the Dig TM, which, when combined with Machop and his/her high Attack, ought to send Morty's Pokemon back to their graves.

Is it too far out of the way, though? That's my only concern.

petrie911

2007-01-14 11:49:28 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

It is a bit out of the way, but it will make Morty go very quickly, as Dig is a SE against his ghosts. If you're going with Machop, I'd say you should get it.

BTW, are you getting the Bicycle for the run?

AquaTiger

2007-01-14 11:50:44 pm

Never give up!

Quote:

BTW, are you getting the Bicycle for the run?

I'll answer that with another question - what would be the advantage of me NOT getting it?

petrie911

Edit history:

petrie911: 2007-01-15 12:22:24 am

2007-01-15 12:01:15 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

I suppose it was a dumb question, but you never really know what people sometimes overlook.

Anyways, there is another alternative to the Dig TM. Luck manipulate Hidden Power Ghost on your Machop. This would be seg'd only, but I can't remember which one you're doing.

EDIT: Nevermind, you don't get Hidden Power soon enough. You get one at the Lake of Rage and can buy in Celadon. I thought you could buy at Goldenrod, but apparently not.

Also, would a male or female machop be better? a Female one can't get attracted by Miltank, but a male one necessarily has a higher atk DV (9 or higher).

Lastly, Foresight+Return/Frustration is a consideration, although you'd have to foresight each ghost individually.

Yoshi348

2007-01-15 02:31:40 am

dinosaur from the past

Quote:

Also, would a male or female machop be better? a Female one can't get attracted by Miltank, but a male one necessarily has a higher atk DV (9 or higher).

Actually with a Machop it only means it has at least 4 or higher, since Machops are 75% male. Which means a female Machop would have an attack gene of 0-3, which is um, low.

50-50 Pokemon would have an 8 or higher as a male, unless you were counting 1-16 instead of 0-F (15), in which case it'd be the 9 you stated. But the 0-F value is probably going to be the one with math done on it by the game.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-01-16 04:10:01 am

2007-01-15 05:02:32 pm

Never give up!

Well then.

My original plan had called for catching a female Drowzee, since the gender of the Pokemon you trade away influences the gender of the Pokemon you get in return and I had wanted a female Machop. With this stuff in mind, I think I'll go for the male Machop and work out a way to OHKO Miltank before it gets an action.

This means an X Speed or two against Whitney's Clefairy.

Edit: I'm also going to practice the route with a segmented practice run, so some input would help out.

What I'm particularly interested in is the following:
-Does the DV set of a Pokemon gotten through an in-game trade (Drowzee for Machop in my case) equal the DV set of the Pokemon traded?
-I'm hoping for Attack and Speed DVs of at least C (12) for Totodile and at least A (10) for Machop (or Drowzee if the traded-away Pokemon influences the newcomer; also, I'm forgiving the second one because that's a ways into the run). What numbers for those two stats should I be looking at?

Note that I'm probably starting with Totodile - it fights better in the first gym and Union Cave, can learn Strength (unlike Cyndaquil, my second choice) in case I don't want Machoke to learn it, and I believe Razor Leaf has a better chance of missing than Water Gun (we're talking about the moves of the rival's starter here). If Water Gun tends to do less damage (not accounting for criticals, which Razor Leaf likes to cause), I may go with Cyndaquil. Regardless, I may pick up an X Speed or two in Violet City (don't be silly, it won't help dodging - although it WILL help allow me the first strike).

Edit: The word on the street about the Sabrina battle.

I dread this fight now. Using the statistics guide on GameFAQs that was written by Efrem Orizzonte, I've learned that the slowest of Sabrina's Pokemon, Mr. Mime, is twice the speed of Machoke at the same level (at least if I'm reading it right, though even if I'm reading it wrong, that's a pretty drastic difference anyway). Also, each of Sabrina's Pokemon's Special Attack really outdistances Machoke's Special Defense. Combined with the Psychic weakness of my Machoke, even at the levels I should reach, that battle is probably going to be the biggest run-killer of them all. Though if I can find some way to get around that (I'd say Quick Claw since I'm going to National Park anyway, but I figure the chance of that item kicking in is something like 1%), Machoke's Attack outdistances the Defense of every one of them.

I guess this is the Pokemon equivalent of Russian Roulette.

Well then.

My original plan had called for catching a female Drowzee, since the gender of the Pokemon you trade away influences the gender of the Pokemon you get in return and I had wanted a female Machop.  With this stuff in mind, I think I'll go for the male Machop and work out a way to OHKO Miltank before it gets an action.

This means an X Speed or two against Whitney's Clefairy.

Edit: I'm also going to practice the route with a segmented practice run, so some input would help out.

What I'm particularly interested in is the following:
-Does the DV set of a Pokemon gotten through an in-game trade (Drowzee for Machop in my case) equal the DV set of the Pokemon traded?
-I'm hoping for Attack and Speed DVs of at least C (12) for Totodile and at least A (10) for Machop (or Drowzee if the traded-away Pokemon influences the newcomer; also, I'm forgiving the second one because that's a ways into the run).  What numbers for those two stats should I be looking at?

Note that I'm probably starting with Totodile - it fights better in the first gym and Union Cave, can learn Strength (unlike Cyndaquil, my second choice) in case I don't want Machoke to learn it, and I believe Razor Leaf has a better chance of missing than Water Gun (we're talking about the moves of the rival's starter here).  If Water Gun tends to do less damage (not accounting for criticals, which Razor Leaf likes to cause), I may go with Cyndaquil.  Regardless, I may pick up an X Speed or two in Violet City (don't be silly, it won't help dodging - although it WILL help allow me the first strike).

Edit: The word on the street about the Sabrina battle.

I dread this fight now.  Using the statistics guide on GameFAQs that was written by Efrem Orizzonte, I've learned that the slowest of Sabrina's Pokemon, Mr. Mime, is twice the speed of Machoke at the same level (at least if I'm reading it right, though even if I'm reading it wrong, that's a pretty drastic difference anyway).  Also, each of Sabrina's Pokemon's Special Attack really outdistances Machoke's Special Defense.  Combined with the Psychic weakness of my Machoke, even at the levels I should reach, that battle is probably going to be the biggest run-killer of them all.  Though if I can find some way to get around that (I'd say Quick Claw since I'm going to National Park anyway, but I figure the chance of that item kicking in is something like 1%), Machoke's Attack outdistances the Defense of every one of them.

I guess this is the Pokemon equivalent of Russian Roulette.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-01-17 01:12:05 am

2007-01-16 05:50:03 pm

Never give up!

Okay, as far as my test run goes, here's how I plan on splitting it up:

Part 1: Beginning to Goldenrod (the part I've memorized)
Part 2: Goldenrod through the end of Olivine (the absolute end, meaning Jasmine's defeat)
Part 3: End of Olivine all the way to the Elite Four
Part 4: The Elite Four and Lance
Part 5: The Kanto League (yes, ALL of it, meaning I save only after I beat Blue/Gary)
Part 6: Mt. Silver and Red/Ash

The long parts are because I want to simulate the lengthiness of an SS run as best as possible. Thus, I will also try to avoid restarting parts when possible, except the first one, where I figure the most run-killing moments will occur.

I'm in the process of AGAIN refining the Part 1 plan, as I've discovered two solutions to my problems against the rival's Bayleef in Azalea. I'll detail these two solutions below:

Solution 1: Catch a Weedle and raise it to level 10-12.

Solution 2: Catch a Zubat and raise IT to level 10-12.

Both solutions result in Pokemon that are at least single-resistant if not double-resistant to Razor Leaf, which turns out to be his Bayleef's ONLY offensive move in that fight. In the first solution, the resulting Beedrill will have a move Bayleef is weak to (Poison Sting, which gets STAB if I'm not mistaken). This is not true in the second case (at least the type chart I'm reading doesn't have Bug being super-effective against Grass, though I could have SWORN it was), but Zubat could theoretically take out most of the rival's team (HIS Zubat will be taken out with my starter, as that's faster) because Bite (from a level 12 Zubat - intriguingly, a level 20 Totodile gets it too) is a Dark move, and Dark moves are designed to take out Ghosts (of which the rival has one at this stage).

There's three Pokemon I'm considering for most of the game that I can start raising in Goldenrod, actually. These are Gyarados (I'll catch the needed Magikarp either in Ilex Forest - or possibly right on the route before Union Cave, if I can get a level 10 Magikarp there), Machoke (I've already discussed this, but I'd get the Drowzee right before Goldenrod and then trade for Machop), and Kadabra (the special specialist - I'd pick up Abra right before Goldenrod and then teach it at least two of the element punches, probably Ice and Thunder). I'm currently thinking of testing the Kadabra setup first, as I believe that one is going to be my best shot stat-wise at pulling off an SS run.

Okay, as far as my test run goes, here's how I plan on splitting it up:

Part 1: Beginning to Goldenrod (the part I've memorized)
Part 2: Goldenrod through the end of Olivine (the absolute end, meaning Jasmine's defeat)
Part 3: End of Olivine all the way to the Elite Four
Part 4: The Elite Four and Lance
Part 5: The Kanto League (yes, ALL of it, meaning I save only after I beat Blue/Gary)
Part 6: Mt. Silver and Red/Ash

The long parts are because I want to simulate the lengthiness of an SS run as best as possible.  Thus, I will also try to avoid restarting parts when possible, except the first one, where I figure the most run-killing moments will occur.

I'm in the process of AGAIN refining the Part 1 plan, as I've discovered two solutions to my problems against the rival's Bayleef in Azalea.  I'll detail these two solutions below:

Solution 1: Catch a Weedle and raise it to level 10-12.

Solution 2: Catch a Zubat and raise IT to level 10-12.

Both solutions result in Pokemon that are at least single-resistant if not double-resistant to Razor Leaf, which turns out to be his Bayleef's ONLY offensive move in that fight.  In the first solution, the resulting Beedrill will have a move Bayleef is weak to (Poison Sting, which gets STAB if I'm not mistaken).  This is not true in the second case (at least the type chart I'm reading doesn't have Bug being super-effective against Grass, though I could have SWORN it was), but Zubat could theoretically take out most of the rival's team (HIS Zubat will be taken out with my starter, as that's faster) because Bite (from a level 12 Zubat - intriguingly, a level 20 Totodile gets it too) is a Dark move, and Dark moves are designed to take out Ghosts (of which the rival has one at this stage).

There's three Pokemon I'm considering for most of the game that I can start raising in Goldenrod, actually.  These are Gyarados (I'll catch the needed Magikarp either in Ilex Forest - or possibly right on the route before Union Cave, if I can get a level 10 Magikarp there), Machoke (I've already discussed this, but I'd get the Drowzee right before Goldenrod and then trade for Machop), and Kadabra (the special specialist - I'd pick up Abra right before Goldenrod and then teach it at least two of the element punches, probably Ice and Thunder).  I'm currently thinking of testing the Kadabra setup first, as I believe that one is going to be my best shot stat-wise at pulling off an SS run.

petrie911

Edit history:

petrie911: 2007-01-17 01:08:58 am

2007-01-17 01:08:38 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

I'm working on figuring out whether the IVs in ingame trades are the same. The best way to check for sure is to breed a shiny Drowzee (not as hard as it sounds) and see if it trades a shiny Machop.

With a shiny Ditto (also not hard to obtain), one can breed shiny offspring with a 1/64 chance, so this shouldn't take too long to test.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-01-18 04:17:58 am

2007-01-17 01:13:58 am

Never give up!

I came up with some new stuff while you were posting that. Particularly how I'm getting around the Bayleef problem.

In any event, I'd say the first hour of the run is the roughest part. If I can get to Ecruteak, the run simply becomes a matter of not screwing up royally.

Edit: Also note: The game timer for this run will have to be set for a morning or daytime hour if I plan on going the Weedle route. This is because I cannot catch Weedle on the route before Violet City at night. I don't have this restriction if I'm using Zubat, as those can be caught at Union Cave any time.

If I ultimately go with Kadabra, as the below plan will show, I may not need to worry about what day of the week I use either, as Kadabra's Attack stat is awful enough that Return won't help me one iota.

Anyway, new plan for Part 1:
-Start with Totodile. I'm giving it a three-letter nickname - the ones I'm considering now are Jim, Ben, or Pat. I've been mostly going with the name Ben in my earlier attempts.
-Make sure Totodile hits level 7 either before or at the conclusion of the first rival battle, so it learns Rage.
-No need to catch anything on the way to Violet City.
-Make sure Totodile is at least level 9 when hitting Violet City.
-Buy five X Attack, two X Defend, one X Speed, and two Awakening in Violet City. If this means waiting until after Falkner, then wait to buy them.
-Blast through the Gym using Rage. I will need to attach Berries before every fight, as these nimrods always seem to get critical hits at the WORST possible times.
-Make sure to grab the three Great Balls on the way to Azalea. Also pick up the Old Rod.
-Pick up the X Attack in Union Cave.
-Catch a Spearow right after Union Cave - no lower than level 6 though (I REALLY hope it's a higher level than that).
-I may consider fighting a couple random encounters in the grass here with Spearow to bring it up one or two levels. This will be an even better idea if I can run across Hoppip a few times, as they give as much experience per level as the Kakunas did before Violet City.
-After getting Spearow, turn the battle style to Shift and switch Spearow in front.
-Against Team Rocket, Spearow should fight alone against the Zubats. For all others, use Totodile (hopefully Croconaw at some point here) but tag him in during the first round rather than right at the start of each battle. After this point, turn the battle style back to Set.
-Use Spearow's Peck against the Gym's Bug Pokemon. When fighting Bugsy, use two X Defend and three X Attack while fighting the Metapod, to have enough power to survive Scyther. After fighting Bugsy, make Spearow hold the Bitter Berry.
-Get at least two Potions after fighting Bugsy, in case things go awry here.
-When fighting the rival the second time, have Spearow go in front. Use Growl until Gastly puts the Spearow to sleep, then use three X Attack and one X Speed. Once that's done, use an Awakening and finish off Gastly. The Bitter Berry is in case Zubat confuses Spearow (and the X Speed was for going before Zubat, to mitigate confusion problems), but use Peck from here to the rest of the fight.
-Catch a Poliwag in the waters in Ilex Forest.
-Catch Abra right before Goldenrod - this is why I need the Great Balls.

I wonder if it's possible to have a time below 50 minutes in an SS to this part - that's about how much time it took Brown_Bomber to get to Goldenrod for the first time in his run.

I came up with some new stuff while you were posting that.  Particularly how I'm getting around the Bayleef problem.

In any event, I'd say the first hour of the run is the roughest part.  If I can get to Ecruteak, the run simply becomes a matter of not screwing up royally.

Edit: Also note: The game timer for this run will have to be set for a morning or daytime hour if I plan on going the Weedle route.  This is because I cannot catch Weedle on the route before Violet City at night.  I don't have this restriction if I'm using Zubat, as those can be caught at Union Cave any time.

If I ultimately go with Kadabra, as the below plan will show, I may not need to worry about what day of the week I use either, as Kadabra's Attack stat is awful enough that Return won't help me one iota.

Anyway, new plan for Part 1:
-Start with Totodile.  I'm giving it a three-letter nickname - the ones I'm considering now are Jim, Ben, or Pat.  I've been mostly going with the name Ben in my earlier attempts.
-Make sure Totodile hits level 7 either before or at the conclusion of the first rival battle, so it learns Rage.
-No need to catch anything on the way to Violet City.
-Make sure Totodile is at least level 9 when hitting Violet City.
-Buy five X Attack, two X Defend, one X Speed, and two Awakening in Violet City.  If this means waiting until after Falkner, then wait to buy them.
-Blast through the Gym using Rage.  I will need to attach Berries before every fight, as these nimrods always seem to get critical hits at the WORST possible times.
-Make sure to grab the three Great Balls on the way to Azalea.  Also pick up the Old Rod.
-Pick up the X Attack in Union Cave.
-Catch a Spearow right after Union Cave - no lower than level 6 though (I REALLY hope it's a higher level than that).
-I may consider fighting a couple random encounters in the grass here with Spearow to bring it up one or two levels.  This will be an even better idea if I can run across Hoppip a few times, as they give as much experience per level as the Kakunas did before Violet City.
-After getting Spearow, turn the battle style to Shift and switch Spearow in front.
-Against Team Rocket, Spearow should fight alone against the Zubats.  For all others, use Totodile (hopefully Croconaw at some point here) but tag him in during the first round rather than right at the start of each battle.  After this point, turn the battle style back to Set.
-Use Spearow's Peck against the Gym's Bug Pokemon.  When fighting Bugsy, use two X Defend and three X Attack while fighting the Metapod, to have enough power to survive Scyther.  After fighting Bugsy, make Spearow hold the Bitter Berry.
-Get at least two Potions after fighting Bugsy, in case things go awry here.
-When fighting the rival the second time, have Spearow go in front.  Use Growl until Gastly puts the Spearow to sleep, then use three X Attack and one X Speed.  Once that's done, use an Awakening and finish off Gastly.  The Bitter Berry is in case Zubat confuses Spearow (and the X Speed was for going before Zubat, to mitigate confusion problems), but use Peck from here to the rest of the fight.
-Catch a Poliwag in the waters in Ilex Forest.
-Catch Abra right before Goldenrod - this is why I need the Great Balls.

I wonder if it's possible to have a time below 50 minutes in an SS to this part - that's about how much time it took Brown_Bomber to get to Goldenrod for the first time in his run.

petrie911

2007-01-17 03:07:41 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Well, it appears that Machop's IVs are preset.

Anyways, perhaps you could use a Spearow to get rid of Bayleef. It has nice STAB on peck, which has twice the power of poison sting, and has only 20 less base attack. But you have to be playing during the day to catch one.

As for Sabrina's Gym, I believe Quick Claw has a 25% chance of activation, so you'd need a bit of luck with only Machoke. But you get that wonderful Shadow Ball TM, and it should be used. I'll see if there's any convenient pokemon that can learn it.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-01-17 04:26:01 am

2007-01-17 04:16:38 am

Never give up!

Well, Spearow's also got quite a bit less special defense than Beedrill. And it's only single-resistant to Razor Leaf. So its survivability might be questionable.

On the other hand, with just a little prior training (which would include the trainer with a Machop just outside Union Cave), Spearow may be able to solo Bugsy's gym despite the level difference. That may be a reason to go with Spearow instead - I could get most of his training from the gym and make Croconaw available more quickly. I'd probably use two or three X Attack in this situation instead of just one. Also, getting a Spearow means I wouldn't have to catch Pidgey early on - Spearow can be recycled as the Pokemon that uses Fly to bring me to places quickly later.

On that note, I should state that my test using Beedrill worked somewhat decently (I didn't save that game because I'd actually lost to Bugsy earlier). Poison Sting does pitiful damage due to Bayleef's high defense stats, but poisoning Bayleef and then playing the waiting game works very well because with Beedrill at level 12, the rival's Bayleef does only 3 or at most 6 damage with Razor Leaf (the latter is in the case of a critical). If I went with Spearow in this situation, I'd need several X Attack to counter Bayleef's high Defense. And if Spearow DOESN'T work, at least I still have something to work with.

Well, Spearow's also got quite a bit less special defense than Beedrill.  And it's only single-resistant to Razor Leaf.  So its survivability might be questionable.

On the other hand, with just a little prior training (which would include the trainer with a Machop just outside Union Cave), Spearow may be able to solo Bugsy's gym despite the level difference.  That may be a reason to go with Spearow instead - I could get most of his training from the gym and make Croconaw available more quickly.  I'd probably use two or three X Attack in this situation instead of just one.  Also, getting a Spearow means I wouldn't have to catch Pidgey early on - Spearow can be recycled as the Pokemon that uses Fly to bring me to places quickly later.

On that note, I should state that my test using Beedrill worked somewhat decently (I didn't save that game because I'd actually lost to Bugsy earlier).  Poison Sting does pitiful damage due to Bayleef's high defense stats, but poisoning Bayleef and then playing the waiting game works very well because with Beedrill at level 12, the rival's Bayleef does only 3 or at most 6 damage with Razor Leaf (the latter is in the case of a critical).  If I went with Spearow in this situation, I'd need several X Attack to counter Bayleef's high Defense.  And if Spearow DOESN'T work, at least I still have something to work with.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-01-18 02:13:43 am

2007-01-18 01:38:54 am

Never give up!

As far as Spearow, an update.

I feel like an idiot. I spent ten minutes trying to catch one right before Union Cave, come to find out they don't show up in that route. The best chance is right AFTER Union Cave, and that's where I'm going to get it.

As far as catch rates..... Spearow, which will wind up the first Pokemon I have to catch if this works, is more common in MORNING hours (about 25%) than DAY hours (12%). However, if I go with morning hours, I lose out quite a bit on my chances to level up on Kakunas before the first gym (Kakunas between Cherrygrove and Violet have a 10% chance in the morning and a 20% probability during the day of showing up, and each is worth 10 XP per level, which I think is higher than any other Pokemon in this area). I hope Ledyba (morning-only in Silver, the version I'm using) gives some decent experience.

Will give a test of whether Spearow works in a short time.

One thing I do know pretty much for sure. I'm setting the run's day to Monday. I'm considering buying stuff from the Goldenrod Trinket Shop (only open on Monday) and then selling it elsewhere to earn some money. Thing is, I think it's only open during the morning hours. I'd have to set the game timer to the earliest possible morning hour in order to take advantage of it more than once. In this test run I'll only be using the Trinket Shop once, and that's the first time I enter Goldenrod. (Buying from the Trinket Shop and selling elsewhere, if it works the way I think it does, may be important if I need a lot of extra healing items). If I only do that once and still need money later, I plan on picking up the Amulet Coin during the Goldenrod Radio Tower quest.

Also, I may consider getting the Dig TM regardless of what Pokemon is my star. Totodile (and both its evolutions) can learn Dig, and I believe it functions the same as Escape Ropes do, so it'd replace the role of that. Thing is, I'll have to abandon the idea of Totodile learning one of either Surf or Whirlpool, but thankfully Poliwag can learn both (in addition to Waterfall, which Totodile CAN'T learn). That is, if I decide this idea is better (considering how few Escape Ropes I need, this may not be viable).

Edit: Also, I know of a second option for Waterfall. I can wait and get the Good Rod in Olivine City, and catch Chinchou, the Water/Electric combo. It can cover for all the HMs that Poliwag can, and I have a slightly higher chance of getting one (25%, compared to Poliwag's 20%). I really don't want to have to go longer than that for the Waterfall-using Pokemon.

As far as Spearow, an update.

I feel like an idiot.  I spent ten minutes trying to catch one right before Union Cave, come to find out they don't show up in that route.  The best chance is right AFTER Union Cave, and that's where I'm going to get it.

As far as catch rates..... Spearow, which will wind up the first Pokemon I have to catch if this works, is more common in MORNING hours (about 25%) than DAY hours (12%).  However, if I go with morning hours, I lose out quite a bit on my chances to level up on Kakunas before the first gym (Kakunas between Cherrygrove and Violet have a 10% chance in the morning and a 20% probability during the day of showing up, and each is worth 10 XP per level, which I think is higher than any other Pokemon in this area).  I hope Ledyba (morning-only in Silver, the version I'm using) gives some decent experience.

Will give a test of whether Spearow works in a short time.

One thing I do know pretty much for sure.  I'm setting the run's day to Monday.  I'm considering buying stuff from the Goldenrod Trinket Shop (only open on Monday) and then selling it elsewhere to earn some money.  Thing is, I think it's only open during the morning hours.  I'd have to set the game timer to the earliest possible morning hour in order to take advantage of it more than once.  In this test run I'll only be using the Trinket Shop once, and that's the first time I enter Goldenrod.  (Buying from the Trinket Shop and selling elsewhere, if it works the way I think it does, may be important if I need a lot of extra healing items).  If I only do that once and still need money later, I plan on picking up the Amulet Coin during the Goldenrod Radio Tower quest.

Also, I may consider getting the Dig TM regardless of what Pokemon is my star.  Totodile (and both its evolutions) can learn Dig, and I believe it functions the same as Escape Ropes do, so it'd replace the role of that.  Thing is, I'll have to abandon the idea of Totodile learning one of either Surf or Whirlpool, but thankfully Poliwag can learn both (in addition to Waterfall, which Totodile CAN'T learn).  That is, if I decide this idea is better (considering how few Escape Ropes I need, this may not be viable).

Edit: Also, I know of a second option for Waterfall.  I can wait and get the Good Rod in Olivine City, and catch Chinchou, the Water/Electric combo.  It can cover for all the HMs that Poliwag can, and I have a slightly higher chance of getting one (25%, compared to Poliwag's 20%).  I really don't want to have to go longer than that for the Waterfall-using Pokemon.

yoshmaster5

2007-01-18 02:06:55 am

Also tenkiforecast

it's possible there's an exp formula on Serebii.net... or possibly somewhere online. pokefor.tk died, so that option's gone as well.

Is it possible for Beedrill to learn Fury Cutter? if it is, then the Bayleaf would fall faster, but... there wouldn't be as good a chance as poison. But... after poisoning, then you could use another move, or another super effective attack.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-01-18 04:19:04 am

2007-01-18 02:28:54 am

Never give up!

Beedrill CAN indeed learn Fury Cutter. If the Spearow idea doesn't work, that's probably going to be what I do.

Anyway, I just had another strange idea. In the part of Dark Cave south of Blackthorn City, there's a chance of me getting my hands on a Wobbuffet. Basically, it can return attacks dealt to it for drastic amounts of damage - fact of the matter is, this is basically the only way it can attack at all. If I go with the Machoke route, this suddenly gives me a way to deal with Sabrina - I may consider this choice if I go with the Kadabra route too, though, and have Wobbuffet deal with a couple hard-hitting physical-attack Pokemon. I'd like input on this matter.

Edit: It turns out Spearow CAN take out Bayleef all by its lonesome, meaning I can revise my strategy to go along with that plan (which I have done - see above). However, a certain degree of luck is required for this to work well.

First off, Spearow is going to need to be at least level 12 by the time Bayleef is fought. If the one I catch is at level 6, that means I basically need it to start every round against Team Rocket (and fight all Zubats on its own), then make it fight pretty much everything in the Gym (I need an X Defend or two and several X Attack to survive Scyther) on its own, and that will barely do the trick. Second, I may need to get some extra Potions after fighting Bugsy. Third, I'm going to need to buy two X Defend in Violet City to go along with the X Attack, meaning I can forget about buying Potions in Violet City (which may mean extra Pokemon Center visits). Lastly, I need to stock an Awakening or two, since I will be using the Gastly to pump up when fighting the rival, and putting me to sleep is the only danger it poses if I use Growl before it hypnotizes me (Lick does nothing to Spearow - I just don't want it using Spite to make Peck unusable). I will also probably put the Bitter Berry on Spearow because I know Zubat's going to use Supersonic to confuse it.

By the way.... there ARE three Great Balls between Violet City and Azalea Town. There's two before Union Cave, one being hidden and one in a patch of grass that snakes around a few trees. Then there's the one IN Union Cave. So I have three chances to catch that Abra.

Beedrill CAN indeed learn Fury Cutter.  If the Spearow idea doesn't work, that's probably going to be what I do.

Anyway, I just had another strange idea.  In the part of Dark Cave south of Blackthorn City, there's a chance of me getting my hands on a Wobbuffet.  Basically, it can return attacks dealt to it for drastic amounts of damage - fact of the matter is, this is basically the only way it can attack at all.  If I go with the Machoke route, this suddenly gives me a way to deal with Sabrina - I may consider this choice if I go with the Kadabra route too, though, and have Wobbuffet deal with a couple hard-hitting physical-attack Pokemon.  I'd like input on this matter.

Edit:  It turns out Spearow CAN take out Bayleef all by its lonesome, meaning I can revise my strategy to go along with that plan (which I have done - see above).  However, a certain degree of luck is required for this to work well.

First off, Spearow is going to need to be at least level 12 by the time Bayleef is fought.  If the one I catch is at level 6, that means I basically need it to start every round against Team Rocket (and fight all Zubats on its own), then make it fight pretty much everything in the Gym (I need an X Defend or two and several X Attack to survive Scyther) on its own, and that will barely do the trick.  Second, I may need to get some extra Potions after fighting Bugsy.  Third, I'm going to need to buy two X Defend in Violet City to go along with the X Attack, meaning I can forget about buying Potions in Violet City (which may mean extra Pokemon Center visits).  Lastly, I need to stock an Awakening or two, since I will be using the Gastly to pump up when fighting the rival, and putting me to sleep is the only danger it poses if I use Growl before it hypnotizes me (Lick does nothing to Spearow - I just don't want it using Spite to make Peck unusable).  I will also probably put the Bitter Berry on Spearow because I know Zubat's going to use Supersonic to confuse it.

By the way.... there ARE three Great Balls between Violet City and Azalea Town.  There's two before Union Cave, one being hidden and one in a patch of grass that snakes around a few trees.  Then there's the one IN Union Cave.  So I have three chances to catch that Abra.

petrie911

2007-01-18 05:36:45 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

The earliest you can catch spearow is right at the start, in the south part of route 46. You might want to get one then so you can get some experience off of the many bug catchers in the area.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-01-18 01:54:17 pm

2007-01-18 01:50:27 pm

Never give up!

Quote:

The earliest you can catch spearow is right at the start, in the south part of route 46. You might want to get one then so you can get some experience off of the many bug catchers in the area.

That's pretty much out of the question. I would rather blaze through the first few areas as fast as possible, so having anyone but my starting Totodile fight at all before Violet City means the starter won't have the needed experience to get by Falkner quickly.

I am almost completely certain that it's faster to get the Spearow after Union Cave (when it's several levels higher than it would be on Route 46) and train it up then.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-01-18 08:15:31 pm

2007-01-18 04:02:58 pm

Never give up!

Progress report.

The Trinket Shop won't be worth it, as I make too little money from the stuff they sell. So having the run day be a Monday won't be necessary. Maybe Sunday's a better idea (see below).

Also, there's been a change of plan for this test. Due to having trouble catching Poliwag (although I got it, it escaped the Lure Ball and TWO Great Balls, so I had to weaken it and catch it with a normal Poke Ball), I chose to catch Drowzee instead of Abra. This means I'll be testing with Machop and later Machoke.

Next, I'm highly considering fighting the random lookaround trainer in Azalea Gym. His Beedrill gives about 3/4 the experience that Bugsy's Scyther does, and even without boosts the Beedrill can be taken out fast.

Lastly, Spearow performs exceptionally against Scyther when pumped up with X Defend. Although I didn't get much chance because a critical resulted in Scyther being OHKOed. I figure that means a 2HKO normally.

Anyway, I finally have a test save in Goldenrod. Unfortunately, its time is 1:07, probably too far behind the current segmented run of Pokemon Gold. However, I've got all the Pokemon I need at this point, so I should be in better shape for future areas. Plus factor in that I did some things that turned out to just waste time and got some awful luck against Team Rocket in Azalea.

Edit: As far as my strategy for later if I use Machoke or Gyarados (or even if I have a change of heart and decide Feraligatr is best for an SS), when I get around to the actual run, I'm going to do the complete opposite of what Brown_Bomber did. He tries to keep Feraligatr happy as much as possible so he can utilize Return. I'm going to make the physical-attacking Pokemon hate my guts as much as possible and use Frustration instead. This means using Revival Herbs, Energy Powder, Energy Roots, and Heal Powder whenever possible (preferably Energy Roots and Heal Powder, because those are the most cost-effective.... unless Revival Herbs are like a Max Revive instead of a standard Revive). These can only be gotten on weekends, and the Frustration TM can only be gotten on a Sunday, which is why I need that to be the starting day. The thing is, at least if the Happiness Points FAQ on GameFAQs is accurate, I can get Frustration MUCH earlier than Return and keep it powerful more easily. Also if that guide is accurate, the use of these four items are the only things that significantly reduce Happiness (fainting reduces Happiness slightly, but that wastes too much time IMO).

For this test run, I'm going to try to make do without either Return or Frustration and see where I wind up.

Need to review the next part before trying to blaze through it. Considering the number of mistakes I made though, I may consider restarting with a different starting day and trying for better luck and different strategies in the first practice part.

If anyone prefers I restart, I'd like to hear it now.

Progress report.

The Trinket Shop won't be worth it, as I make too little money from the stuff they sell.  So having the run day be a Monday won't be necessary.  Maybe Sunday's a better idea (see below).

Also, there's been a change of plan for this test.  Due to having trouble catching Poliwag (although I got it, it escaped the Lure Ball and TWO Great Balls, so I had to weaken it and catch it with a normal Poke Ball), I chose to catch Drowzee instead of Abra.  This means I'll be testing with Machop and later Machoke.

Next, I'm highly considering fighting the random lookaround trainer in Azalea Gym.  His Beedrill gives about 3/4 the experience that Bugsy's Scyther does, and even without boosts the Beedrill can be taken out fast.

Lastly, Spearow performs exceptionally against Scyther when pumped up with X Defend.  Although I didn't get much chance because a critical resulted in Scyther being OHKOed.  I figure that means a 2HKO normally.

Anyway, I finally have a test save in Goldenrod.  Unfortunately, its time is 1:07, probably too far behind the current segmented run of Pokemon Gold.  However, I've got all the Pokemon I need at this point, so I should be in better shape for future areas.  Plus factor in that I did some things that turned out to just waste time and got some awful luck against Team Rocket in Azalea.

Edit: As far as my strategy for later if I use Machoke or Gyarados (or even if I have a change of heart and decide Feraligatr is best for an SS), when I get around to the actual run, I'm going to do the complete opposite of what Brown_Bomber did.  He tries to keep Feraligatr happy as much as possible so he can utilize Return.  I'm going to make the physical-attacking Pokemon hate my guts as much as possible and use Frustration instead.  This means using Revival Herbs, Energy Powder, Energy Roots, and Heal Powder whenever possible (preferably Energy Roots and Heal Powder, because those are the most cost-effective.... unless Revival Herbs are like a Max Revive instead of a standard Revive).  These can only be gotten on weekends, and the Frustration TM can only be gotten on a Sunday, which is why I need that to be the starting day.  The thing is, at least if the Happiness Points FAQ on GameFAQs is accurate, I can get Frustration MUCH earlier than Return and keep it powerful more easily.  Also if that guide is accurate, the use of these four items are the only things that significantly reduce Happiness (fainting reduces Happiness slightly, but that wastes too much time IMO).

For this test run, I'm going to try to make do without either Return or Frustration and see where I wind up.

Need to review the next part before trying to blaze through it.  Considering the number of mistakes I made though, I may consider restarting with a different starting day and trying for better luck and different strategies in the first practice part.

If anyone prefers I restart, I'd like to hear it now.