Pokemon Colosseum! 100% 7:17!! Improvement on the way!!!

2009-04-02 08:20:42 pm

Back in the game!

Quote from Toothache:

I equip the Quick Claw for the next fight. It contains Electrode, Magnemite and Magneton. Magnemite is KOed by Torrent Surf, but the other two electric types are 2HKOed. All three use Thunder to attack with, which has a 30% miss chance. I need Thunder to hit once from Electrode to put Feraligatr into Torrent range - I need it for the start of the next segment, and also to 2HKO Electrode. If Magneton hits with Thunder, it will OHKO me at this point. I either need for Quick Claw to activate in Turn 2, or for Thunder to miss twice - once from Electrode, once from Magneton.

You could also critical hit with Torrented Surf for a OHKO on Electrode, correct? If that happened, you would only have to worry about either quick claw or one Thunder missing.

Toothache

2009-04-03 02:41:40 am

Let the music play!

Quick Claw is only to outspeed Electrode, so yes, a critical hit Torrent Surf would also do the job. Unfortunately, from the incidents back in segment 2, I'm not going to be trying to rely on crits as much, if they happen great, but I have to look at other alternatives first.

beenman50

2009-04-03 04:20:02 am

what about a helping hand quick claw, it will involve picking up another pokemon but it won't stay alive for long if its plusle and suck XP or anything.
though i realise it would look sloppy getting out a pokemon you just had in your party, it could also be you "healing it" as depositing and picking up in the box heals pokemon

Toothache

2009-04-03 04:39:55 am

Let the music play!

Helping Hand Torrent Surf fails to KO Electrode. I've already considered that possibility, and I'll be using Plusle and Espeon later for sacrificial Helping Hand assistance when I get Earthquake (it will be easier to KO them so Feraligatr gets all the exp that way).

Toothache

2009-04-05 07:51:10 am

Let the music play!

Alright, I've finally finished Segment 18 with an acceptable time. I had a lot of luck snagging Aipom, normally it dies during the first fight, but it survived into the second fight. I made a few menu-related mistakes, notably forgetting that Feraliagtr was paralysed. I needed to check Aipom was a Pick Up version, because it can have 2 abilities - Pick Up and Run Away - and the second ability is useless. (No! There's no running from a trainer battle!) I gave the Quick Claw to Aipom to let it outspeed Electrode, cos the AI would target Aipom first so I wanted to try and let it get some damage in before it died, being in Hyper Mode.

Segment 19 will be ideally the rest of the lab, but if the amount of luck needed becomes too much, then I'll consider splitting it up. I split the lab into 3 parts in the test run, the Kotan battle, the battles after Kotan but before Ein, and Ein himself. I'll go through some battle details to show how much luck is involved.

Battle 1: Shadow Murkrow is the real pain here. It likes to use Night Shade, which does exactly 43 HP here (equivalent to current level), but I needed to be in Torrent range for these next few battles, so I was lucky enough to finish with 44 HP. Carvanha cant survive Surf, Torrented or otherwise, and even Blizzard is a sketchy KO. Torrent is used here for a Surf 2HKO on Nuzleaf, since its first move is Growth. Houndour of course cant survive Surf.

Battle 2: I can sometimes afford to be just out of Torrent range here (53ish-60) but I need to enter Torrent range during this battle. Assuming I take the Night Shade damage from Murkrow, I'm around 4 HP before healing (1 HP +3 from levelling up), so I can afford to use a Super Potion rather than eating into my Potions - I like to save those for an emergency situation, plus one item is faster to use than two obviously.

Anyway, we have a lot to consider for this one, the order can change a lot. Swablu is 2HKOd by Surf, and Forretress needs Surf + Torrent Surf. Of the other two, Zubat cant survive Torrent Surf, and Pupitar has 4x Surf weakness. So its a lot of luck involved whether I need to be in Torrent range or not at any particular time. Swablu has a tendency to start off with Safeguard, Forretress will use Shadow Rush, and I never usually see what the other two do.

I use a Hyper Potion, the final Ether on Surf, and toss the Awakenings and Ice Heals after this battle.

Battle 3: Only 3 Pokemon in this one, but its a pain. Grovyle falls to Blizzard, and Rhyhorn to Surf. The only problem comes from Shadow Ariados, which has a tendency to use Sludge Bomb. Getting poisoned can help if it pushes me into Torrent range for the third turn and Grovyle is still alive, which can happen pretty often.

Hyper Potion here, Antidote if necessary, then move on.

Battle 4: This battle is all about stat-downs. Linoone has Tail Whip, and Granbull has Scary Face. Granbull is a 3HKO to Surf, 2HKO with Torrent. Linoone is 2HKO regardless of Torrent, and Vigoroth takes around the same to KO as Linoone. With this in mind, I considered entering this battle in Torrent range to try and speed up the Granbull KO, but since it loves to spam Scary Face until I'm at -6 Speed before attacking, and Vigoroth can come in and sweep afterwards (the AI tends to lead with Granbull and Linoone), I decided not to use Torrent here just to survive.

I equip Quick Claw here, and heal to full.

Battle 5: Here's the first real test of luck. Researcher Kotan has 3 Electric types, and not only do they sport Thunder, but Electrode also has Rain Dance, making the accuracy 100%. However, this battle always starts the same way, which allowed me to develop a plan for beating it. It is worth seeing :-)

Battle 6: Swellow and Vibrava hate Blizzard, Kadabra hates Slash, and Kecleon is a pain but cant take many physical hits either. This one can be easy or hard depending on the order this battle occurs, mainly because of Kecleon's changing type from Color Change. I cant manipulate it into being super-effective against anything, and it has a high SpDef so all the special moves gatr has end up making Kecleon a 4HKO, which can be quite dangerous.

The code for the door is always fixed. In this case I went ahead and discovered the code so I dont have to track down the DNA codes and analyse them. To remind myself, the code is Quilava, Sudowoodo, Misdreavus.

Battle 7: Skrub II. I dont snag Hitmontop here either, since its replaced by the harder-hitting Medicham. Skrub is the first refight in the entrance to the Snagem Hideout, so I can get Hitmontop there with the Master Ball. Anyway, Skrub's real threat is the same as his first fight, the evolved Wobbuffet. Graveler again is no problem, Clamperl is nothing to write home about either. I need to ignore Wobbuffet as much as possible since it sits there and again either spams Mirror Coat or Counter. Intimidate can work in my favour here since it reduces Slash damage, in case I get unlucky enough to hit Wobbuffet with Slash while it Counters.

Now here's the big test. I equip the Persim Berry to Feraligatr, and pray this battle goes in the order I need.

Battle 8: Cipher Admin Ein. I need this battle to start with Lanturn and Altaria. Lanturn always uses moves in the following order: Rain Dance -> Confuse Ray (if I'm not confused) -> Thunder. As for Altaria, it will do very little damage with its moves, and is the only other of Ein's Pokemon besides Raikou to not have Confuse Ray.

My first turn has to have an X-Speed. This allows me to outspeed his Golbat, and later Raikou also has a chance to outspeed if I did not use an X-Speed. I ignore Altaria for the moment, and concentrate on using Slash on Lanturn. In the test run, my attack was much lower, so Lanturn was a 3HKO without a crit or X-Attack, but here I can turn Slash into a 2HKO, ridding the main threat of the battle before I suffer confusion. The extra turn granted from the Persim Berry could also give me the time to use an X-Special here - it is worth testing, but I doubt an X-Special will make it to this battle.

If Lanturn does become a 2HKO with Slash, I could make this battle work even easier. I will use the first 2 turns to Slash Lanturn, KOing it before it even uses Confuse Ray. Whatever gets sent out next will give me a free turn to attack while it uses Confuse Ray. I could even end this battle with Raikou on its own, the rain running out in time to allow Thunder to miss.

The next Pokemon out determines the battle flow. If he sends out Golbat next, I can use Blizzard here. Golbat is normally a 2HKO with Blizzard, and Altaria having a 4x weakness to Ice is Blizzard bait too. However, this battle needs to end in such a way that Raikou is left alone, so I need to hit his other Pokemon Huntail in such a way that I can finish both Golbat and Huntail with Surf. Huntail has a lower SpDef than it does Def, so naturally Bite is the way to go here. With the rain up, Huntail outspeeds even +1 Feraligatr, so I cant hope for flinch. The rain is the main reason why I need to finish with Raikou on its own - even a Rain-boosted Surf will not KO it when Raikou has a partner on the field. A Torrented Rain-boosted Surf might, but by the time I reach Torrent range the rain has usually run out - the AI prioritises using confusion over attacking.

Bear in mind I will be doing a lot of this battle in confusion status. The AI is so cheap that even if I used a Full Heal to remove confusion, it would use Confuse Ray in the same turn, overriding the usual move that Pokemon would do. The only respite I have is when confusion ends naturally, but that only lasts for a turn - the AI will immediately use Confuse Ray in the very next turn. This is one of the reasons why I was so adamant about getting a Persim Berry for this battle, the AI will not relent on using Confuse Ray, so I just have to rely on some luck to get past it.

So, after all that is over with, its the final preparations before the start of Realgem. I get the Earthquake TM (finally!), and pick up the Shadow Pokemon list. Next stop is back to The Under to visit Nett, to give him the list to decode. This event makes Realgem appear, otherwise it remains as the Construction Yard. I save here, heal and get ready for the admin refights. They will probably end up being their own segment, with additional consideration for the two non-admin snags before the Master Ball (Delibird and Sunflora). I can even ignore one of them since I only need to beat Ein 2 to get the email from Eagun, allowing me to leave Venus 2 until last.

Alright, I've finally finished Segment 18 with an acceptable time. I had a lot of luck snagging Aipom, normally it dies during the first fight, but it survived into the second fight. I made a few menu-related mistakes, notably forgetting that Feraliagtr was paralysed. I needed to check Aipom was a Pick Up version, because it can have 2 abilities - Pick Up and Run Away - and the second ability is useless. (No! There's no running from a trainer battle!) I gave the Quick Claw to Aipom to let it outspeed Electrode, cos the AI would target Aipom first so I wanted to try and let it get some damage in before it died, being in Hyper Mode.

Segment 19 will be ideally the rest of the lab, but if the amount of luck needed becomes too much, then I'll consider splitting it up. I split the lab into 3 parts in the test run, the Kotan battle, the battles after Kotan but before Ein, and Ein himself. I'll go through some battle details to show how much luck is involved.

Battle 1: Shadow Murkrow is the real pain here. It likes to use Night Shade, which does exactly 43 HP here (equivalent to current level), but I needed to be in Torrent range for these next few battles, so I was lucky enough to finish with 44 HP. Carvanha cant survive Surf, Torrented or otherwise, and even Blizzard is a sketchy KO. Torrent is used here for a Surf 2HKO on Nuzleaf, since its first move is Growth. Houndour of course cant survive Surf.

Battle 2: I can sometimes afford to be just out of Torrent range here (53ish-60) but I need to enter Torrent range during this battle. Assuming I take the Night Shade damage from Murkrow, I'm around 4 HP before healing (1 HP +3 from levelling up), so I can afford to use a Super Potion rather than eating into my Potions - I like to save those for an emergency situation, plus one item is faster to use than two obviously.

Anyway, we have a lot to consider for this one, the order can change a lot. Swablu is 2HKOd by Surf, and Forretress needs Surf + Torrent Surf. Of the other two, Zubat cant survive Torrent Surf, and Pupitar has 4x Surf weakness. So its a lot of luck involved whether I need to be in Torrent range or not at any particular time. Swablu has a tendency to start off with Safeguard, Forretress will use Shadow Rush, and I never usually see what the other two do.

I use a Hyper Potion, the final Ether on Surf, and toss the Awakenings and Ice Heals after this battle.

Battle 3: Only 3 Pokemon in this one, but its a pain. Grovyle falls to Blizzard, and Rhyhorn to Surf. The only problem comes from Shadow Ariados, which has a tendency to use Sludge Bomb. Getting poisoned can help if it pushes me into Torrent range for the third turn and Grovyle is still alive, which can happen pretty often.

Hyper Potion here, Antidote if necessary, then move on.

Battle 4: This battle is all about stat-downs. Linoone has Tail Whip, and Granbull has Scary Face. Granbull is a 3HKO to Surf, 2HKO with Torrent. Linoone is 2HKO regardless of Torrent, and Vigoroth takes around the same to KO as Linoone. With this in mind, I considered entering this battle in Torrent range to try and speed up the Granbull KO, but since it loves to spam Scary Face until I'm at -6 Speed before attacking, and Vigoroth can come in and sweep afterwards (the AI tends to lead with Granbull and Linoone), I decided not to use Torrent here just to survive.

I equip Quick Claw here, and heal to full.

Battle 5: Here's the first real test of luck. Researcher Kotan has 3 Electric types, and not only do they sport Thunder, but Electrode also has Rain Dance, making the accuracy 100%. However, this battle always starts the same way, which allowed me to develop a plan for beating it. It is worth seeing :-)

Battle 6: Swellow and Vibrava hate Blizzard, Kadabra hates Slash, and Kecleon is a pain but cant take many physical hits either. This one can be easy or hard depending on the order this battle occurs, mainly because of Kecleon's changing type from Color Change. I cant manipulate it into being super-effective against anything, and it has a high SpDef so all the special moves gatr has end up making Kecleon a 4HKO, which can be quite dangerous.

The code for the door is always fixed. In this case I went ahead and discovered the code so I dont have to track down the DNA codes and analyse them. To remind myself, the code is Quilava, Sudowoodo, Misdreavus.

Battle 7: Skrub II. I dont snag Hitmontop here either, since its replaced by the harder-hitting Medicham. Skrub is the first refight in the entrance to the Snagem Hideout, so I can get Hitmontop there with the Master Ball. Anyway, Skrub's real threat is the same as his first fight, the evolved Wobbuffet. Graveler again is no problem, Clamperl is nothing to write home about either. I need to ignore Wobbuffet as much as possible since it sits there and again either spams Mirror Coat or Counter. Intimidate can work in my favour here since it reduces Slash damage, in case I get unlucky enough to hit Wobbuffet with Slash while it Counters.

Now here's the big test. I equip the Persim Berry to Feraligatr, and pray this battle goes in the order I need.

Battle 8: Cipher Admin Ein. I need this battle to start with Lanturn and Altaria. Lanturn always uses moves in the following order: Rain Dance -> Confuse Ray (if I'm not confused) -> Thunder. As for Altaria, it will do very little damage with its moves, and is the only other of Ein's Pokemon besides Raikou to not have Confuse Ray.

My first turn has to have an X-Speed. This allows me to outspeed his Golbat, and later Raikou also has a chance to outspeed if I did not use an X-Speed. I ignore Altaria for the moment, and concentrate on using Slash on Lanturn. In the test run, my attack was much lower, so Lanturn was a 3HKO without a crit or X-Attack, but here I can turn Slash into a 2HKO, ridding the main threat of the battle before I suffer confusion. The extra turn granted from the Persim Berry could also give me the time to use an X-Special here - it is worth testing, but I doubt an X-Special will make it to this battle.

If Lanturn does become a 2HKO with Slash, I could make this battle work even easier. I will use the first 2 turns to Slash Lanturn, KOing it before it even uses Confuse Ray. Whatever gets sent out next will give me a free turn to attack while it uses Confuse Ray. I could even end this battle with Raikou on its own, the rain running out in time to allow Thunder to miss.

The next Pokemon out determines the battle flow. If he sends out Golbat next, I can use Blizzard here. Golbat is normally a 2HKO with Blizzard, and Altaria having a 4x weakness to Ice is Blizzard bait too. However, this battle needs to end in such a way that Raikou is left alone, so I need to hit his other Pokemon Huntail in such a way that I can finish both Golbat and Huntail with Surf. Huntail has a lower SpDef than it does Def, so naturally Bite is the way to go here. With the rain up, Huntail outspeeds even +1 Feraligatr, so I cant hope for flinch. The rain is the main reason why I need to finish with Raikou on its own - even a Rain-boosted Surf will not KO it when Raikou has a partner on the field. A Torrented Rain-boosted Surf might, but by the time I reach Torrent range the rain has usually run out - the AI prioritises using confusion over attacking.

Bear in mind I will be doing a lot of this battle in confusion status. The AI is so cheap that even if I used a Full Heal to remove confusion, it would use Confuse Ray in the same turn, overriding the usual move that Pokemon would do. The only respite I have is when confusion ends naturally, but that only lasts for a turn - the AI will immediately use Confuse Ray in the very next turn. This is one of the reasons why I was so adamant about getting a Persim Berry for this battle, the AI will not relent on using Confuse Ray, so I just have to rely on some luck to get past it.

So, after all that is over with, its the final preparations before the start of Realgem. I get the Earthquake TM (finally!), and pick up the Shadow Pokemon list. Next stop is back to The Under to visit Nett, to give him the list to decode. This event makes Realgem appear, otherwise it remains as the Construction Yard. I save here, heal and get ready for the admin refights. They will probably end up being their own segment, with additional consideration for the two non-admin snags before the Master Ball (Delibird and Sunflora). I can even ignore one of them since I only need to beat Ein 2 to get the email from Eagun, allowing me to leave Venus 2 until last.

Beenman500

2009-04-11 04:39:08 am

Joke of all trades

8 battles in one run, and the last is ridiculously hard and luck manipulating. Maybe some time-speed ratio might have to be sacraficed

Toothache

2009-04-11 05:00:01 am

Let the music play!

Yeah, I may have to split this segment into two parts, if the amount of luck gets too much. Once I get past Kotan, everything is fine up until Ein, so I can do the first four battles, backtrack to the save point, this saves me going up the lift to Kotan, beating him, and having to backtrack from there. If they'd put a save point in the room with the DNA analyser like in XD this wouldnt be a problem. So far, the only thing stopping me in my attempts beyond Blizzard missing is the Quick Claw requirement for beating Electrode - I believe the odds are somewhere around 18% per round for it to activate.

I am contemplating using the Rare Candys I have before I attempt Ein, I didnt use them until the not-so-Elite 4 in the test run, but I think the extra offence will be best used here - it will also make the Realgem admin fights go a little smoother too. Besides, once I reach the Gonzap fight I will be more than high enough level to continue, now that I have some Helping Hand support again.

Toothache

2009-04-21 04:29:41 am

Let the music play!

Actually I have a second option which I may end up relying on. I can return to Agate at the start of this segment and buy some Revives. I was planning to buy some after this segment, but having a partner would give me some improved surviveability in the Kotan and Ein battles especially. Obviously, this costs a bit of time, but it improves the odds significantly of finishing the segment in one go.

This idea actually came about by accident. In one of my attempts, Aipom pulled out a Revive via Pick Up, so I decided to use it in the Kotan battle on Aipom, just to see what the AI would do. Normally the battle would start with Electrode using Rain Dance, but instead it uses Thunder on Aipom. This is something of a double-edged sword - it means Thunder has a chance of missing. I need Thunder to hit at least once on gatr just to get some Torrent abuse. However, if Electrode then decides to use Rain Dance in the second turn (assuming it KOed Aipom, and Magneton hit Feraligatr into Torrent range), then I could potentially grab a KO here and forego even equipping the Quick Claw. This would mean by buying Revives before the lab, you can ignore the Quick Claw altogether, and since you would need to buy Revives later anyway, it is a route change I would incorporate into any future speedrun attempts at this game.

Having Aipom in a position to be revived would help for the last few battles, especially Skrub with his annoying Wobbuffet, and obviously Ein would have to draw his fire and it would keep Feraligatr a lot safer, perhaps even give me more turns to use X-items. An X-Speed is still a necessity to outspeed Raikou and Golbat, but having an X-Special under my belt would make finishing everything easier, with the exception of Lanturn. I plan to use the Rare Candys I have before Ein, giving me a great chance of a 2HKO on Lanturn, or even OHKO with a crit Slash. I may need to manipulate Aipom into Picking Up a Protein, we shall see, or I can buy one from Agate while purchasing the Revives.

As a rough guess, I can imagine buying Revives and using them would cost me at least a minute in total, but the benefit for getting through the battles speaks for itself. Obviously using as few as possible would help, but thankfully the AI helps in this regard - they always tend to aim for the lower level partner first. In this case, it would keep Feraligatr much safer since the AI prioritises getting Aipom out first, and obviously would guarantee finishing battles a lot safer and giving gatr all the exp she needs.

Actually I have a second option which I may end up relying on. I can return to Agate at the start of this segment and buy some Revives. I was planning to buy some after this segment, but having a partner would give me some improved surviveability in the Kotan and Ein battles especially. Obviously, this costs a bit of time, but it improves the odds significantly of finishing the segment in one go.

This idea actually came about by accident. In one of my attempts, Aipom pulled out a Revive via Pick Up, so I decided to use it in the Kotan battle on Aipom, just to see what the AI would do. Normally the battle would start with Electrode using Rain Dance, but instead it uses Thunder on Aipom. This is something of a double-edged sword - it means Thunder has a chance of missing. I need Thunder to hit at least once on gatr just to get some Torrent abuse. However, if Electrode then decides to use Rain Dance in the second turn (assuming it KOed Aipom, and Magneton hit Feraligatr into Torrent range), then I could potentially grab a KO here and forego even equipping the Quick Claw. This would mean by buying Revives before the lab, you can ignore the Quick Claw altogether, and since you would need to buy Revives later anyway, it is a route change I would incorporate into any future speedrun attempts at this game.

Having Aipom in a position to be revived would help for the last few battles, especially Skrub with his annoying Wobbuffet, and obviously Ein would have to draw his fire and it would keep Feraligatr a lot safer, perhaps even give me more turns to use X-items. An X-Speed is still a necessity to outspeed Raikou and Golbat, but having an X-Special under my belt would make finishing everything easier, with the exception of Lanturn. I plan to use the Rare Candys I have before Ein, giving me a great chance of a 2HKO on Lanturn, or even OHKO with a crit Slash. I may need to manipulate Aipom into Picking Up a Protein, we shall see, or I can buy one from Agate while purchasing the Revives.

As a rough guess, I can imagine buying Revives and using them would cost me at least a minute in total, but the benefit for getting through the battles speaks for itself. Obviously using as few as possible would help, but thankfully the AI helps in this regard - they always tend to aim for the lower level partner first. In this case, it would keep Feraligatr much safer since the AI prioritises getting Aipom out first, and obviously would guarantee finishing battles a lot safer and giving gatr all the exp she needs.

Beenman500

2009-04-21 11:11:49 am

Joke of all trades

just do whatever it is thats fastest, this segment is getting very confusing.

Bill

2009-04-21 05:22:35 pm

Quote from Toothache:

...it is a route change I would incorporate into any future speedrun attempts at this game.

...but the benefit for getting through the battles speaks for itself.

I would ask, as you seem to have at least the basis for a version 2 of this run in your mind, if you would, or would not run this game again.

If yes, preserving sanity now might be a good thing...

Beenman500

2009-04-22 11:47:17 am

Joke of all trades

bill actually makes a sound point. There was that bit where you had to run around in circles for 30 seconds, which is kindof grounds for rejection. Also once you get some ultra balls maybe going back and doing duel square for xp wouldn't be a bad idea given ultraballs catch things better. Just a thought as your always complaing how low ur level is.

Beenman500

2009-04-24 01:43:48 am

Joke of all trades

sorry for double post, but i just though of a useful idea. If you use two game cube memory cards and keep switching them to store the save data, then if someone points out something or you say miss getting surf when you thought you did *ahem* then you could just go back to your backup and go from there. At least you could store a copy of the last segment you did so if you saved and thought, i can do better when i'm feeling patient, then you can do that.

Ascetic Swordsman

2009-04-24 02:10:03 am

Quote from beenman500:

sorry for double post, but i just though of a useful idea. If you use two game cube memory cards and keep switching them to store the save data, then if someone points out something or you say miss getting surf when you thought you did *ahem* then you could just go back to your backup and go from there. At least you could store a copy of the last segment you did so if you saved and thought, i can do better when i'm feeling patient, then you can do that.

That won't work. The game has safeguards against copying saves to prevent cloning. You can't save unless there's a save already present on the memory card, and it would probably have to be the same file. I'll test it in XD in the morning to be 100% sure instead of just 99%. Theoretically you could make a new file on a different memory card. Before saving the newest segment switch out like you said and see if it lets you overwrite that save. I'm not sure, but Animal Crossing might have a similar safeguard.

As for possibly rejecting it because of having to run around, wasn't that to unlock more of the shadow bar? I know depending on the natures of the pokemon that some ways to lower the SB work better than others. I can't watch any of the segments since my bandwidth is limited now but I'm sure Toothache did it that way because he had no other choice.

If it was me verifying, I'd keep in mind the single save feature and no copying saves means once he saves a segment there's no going back. Given the length and luck manipulation involved in the run unless you come with a significant time saver it's not worth it to redo a run to save a few minutes tops. I only played the game once to capture all the pokemon for my pokedex so I have to believe Toothache knows what he's doing and has the optimal plan. This is the 100% run, so any new ideas could always help the any%. Given all the time and effort put into it, rejecting it because he "wastes" 30 seconds is a slap in the face.

On that note, I'm curious about everyone's experience with colosseum. I'm sure Toothache has the most experience, but I'd like to know how I rank with everyone else. I don't feel right criticizing suggestions or contributing any ideas unless I'm sure they're accurate. I'd hate for anyone to think I called them out because they thought I knew more than them, and I apologize if I have done so.

[quote="beenman500"]
sorry for double post, but i just though of a useful idea.  If you use two game cube memory cards and keep switching them to store the save data, then if someone points out something or you say miss getting surf when you thought you did *ahem* then you could just go back to your backup and go from there.  At least you could store a copy of the last segment you did so if you saved and thought, i can do better when i'm feeling patient, then you can do that.
[/quote]

That won't work.  The game has safeguards against copying saves to prevent cloning.  You can't save unless there's a save already present on the memory card, and it would probably have to be the same file.  I'll test it in XD in the morning to be 100% sure instead of just 99%.  Theoretically you could make a new file on a different memory card.  Before saving the newest segment switch out like you said and see if it lets you overwrite that save.  I'm not sure, but Animal Crossing might have a similar safeguard.

As for possibly rejecting it because of having to run around, wasn't that to unlock more of the shadow bar?  I know depending on the natures of the pokemon that some ways to lower the SB work better than others.  I can't watch any of the segments since my bandwidth is limited now but I'm sure Toothache did it that way because he had no other choice.

If it was me verifying, I'd keep in mind the single save feature and no copying saves means once he saves a segment there's no going back.  Given the length and luck manipulation involved in the run unless you come with a significant time saver it's not worth it to redo a run to save a few minutes tops.  I only played the game once to capture all the pokemon for my pokedex so I have to believe Toothache knows what he's doing and has the optimal plan.  This is the 100% run, so any new ideas could always help the any%.  Given all the time and effort put into it, rejecting it because he "wastes" 30 seconds is a slap in the face.

On that note, I'm curious about everyone's experience with colosseum.  I'm sure Toothache has the most experience, but I'd like to know how I rank with everyone else.  I don't feel right criticizing suggestions or contributing any ideas unless I'm sure they're accurate.  I'd hate for anyone to think I called them out because they thought I knew more than them, and I apologize if I have done so.

Toothache

2009-04-24 06:49:37 am

Let the music play!

Yes the whole purpose of the running around was actually to uncover Surf for the very next battle. When I finished Segment 6, it looked like I had passed the fourth Shadow Bar, and was at the natural save point anyway, so I saved with a good amount of time and purification done. However, I was just short by a fraction of uncovering the fourth bar, even with the small amount granted from entering the first battle in Segment 7.

There are four main actions that lower the Shadow Bar.

1) Running around
2) Entering a battle
3) Being called out of Hyper Mode
4) Using a Cologne

Each segment of the Shadow Meter completed uncovers various things. The first, third and fourth bars uncovers moves in addition to the fixed move Shadow Rush. The second bar uncovered reveals the Pokemon's nature. When the fifth bar is uncovered it can be purified. The higher level you are, the longer it takes for the Shadow Bar to uncover, and the legendary dogs appear to take additional time as well despite only being L40. The Pokemon's nature actually determines which method works the best, usually affecting one or two methods.

Since the Cologne Case was not available to me at this point, I only had the first 3 options to play with. Entering and exiting Hyper Mode costs me two turns, which is somewhere around a minute of battle time just sitting around doing nothing for those two turns. Entering Hyper Mode takes away the Shadow Pokemon's normal action, and using the Call function also replaces its normal move for that turn. Just entering the first battle of Segment 7 was not enough to uncover Surf, and doing an additional battle would have cost somewhere around 1-2 minutes of additional time (and run the risk of wasting more time with the chance of entering Hyper Mode). The most logical additional battle would have been either one of the Duel Square battles or the Chaser near the lift, but both of those would have cost a lot of time. So, while it looks sloppy, running around for 30 seconds or so actually SAVED me time, ironically, since Surf's usefulness began to show itself from the very first battle.

Yes the whole purpose of the running around was actually to uncover Surf for the very next battle. When I finished Segment 6, it looked like I had passed the fourth Shadow Bar, and was at the natural save point anyway, so I saved with a good amount of time and purification done. However, I was just short by a fraction of uncovering the fourth bar, even with the small amount granted from entering the first battle in Segment 7.

There are four main actions that lower the Shadow Bar.

1) Running around
2) Entering a battle
3) Being called out of Hyper Mode
4) Using a Cologne

Each segment of the Shadow Meter completed uncovers various things. The first, third and fourth bars uncovers moves in addition to the fixed move Shadow Rush. The second bar uncovered reveals the Pokemon's nature. When the fifth bar is uncovered it can be purified. The higher level you are, the longer it takes for the Shadow Bar to uncover, and the legendary dogs appear to take additional time as well despite only being L40. The Pokemon's nature actually determines which method works the best, usually affecting one or two methods.

Since the Cologne Case was not available to me at this point, I only had the first 3 options to play with. Entering and exiting Hyper Mode costs me two turns, which is somewhere around a minute of battle time just sitting around doing nothing for those two turns. Entering Hyper Mode takes away the Shadow Pokemon's normal action, and using the Call function also replaces its normal move for that turn. Just entering the first battle of Segment 7 was not enough to uncover Surf, and doing an additional battle would have cost somewhere around 1-2 minutes of additional time (and run the risk of wasting more time with the chance of entering Hyper Mode). The most logical additional battle would have been either one of the Duel Square battles or the Chaser near the lift, but both of those would have cost a lot of time. So, while it looks sloppy, running around for 30 seconds or so actually SAVED me time, ironically, since Surf's usefulness began to show itself from the very first battle.

Beenman500

2009-04-24 10:40:58 am

Joke of all trades

i realize you were trying to uncover surf, my main piont was really about the saving, but apparently thats not possible anyway so bleh

Toothache

2009-04-25 03:56:16 am

Let the music play!

Woooo!!!

Its over!!!!

Its messier than I would have liked, but segment 19 is finally over.

Fight 1: Starts the way I would prefer it, with Nuzleaf out. Nuzleaf is a 2HKO to Torrent Surf, so the first two attacks clear it and the other non-Shadows, leaving Murkrow to be KOed with Blizzard

Fight 2: Great start - Forretress and Pupitar. This leads to Swablu being left on its own, saving me a turn so I can finish it with Blizzard also.

Fight 3: I dont get poisoned by Ariados' Sludge Bomb which saves a fair amount of time. Ariados falls to Surf + Torrent Surf, Grovyle to Slash + Torrent Surf. Slash has a low chance of OHKOing without a crit, but I can finish them both off in one attack if that fails, so I wasnt too bothered about that piece of luck.

Equip the Quick Claw here.

Fight 4: Granbull falls to 3 Surfs, while it constantly uses Scary Face. Linoone does Tail Whip, then Vigoroth comes in for some weak Fury Swipes. Not a threat at all, but I would have preferred Quick Claw to activate in this battle also to overcome the speed reduction from Scary Face.

Fight 5: The big one.

Fight 6: I leave Quick Claw on in order to attempt to catch the fast Swellow with Blizzard off the bat, but it doesnt happen. Vibrava and Kadabra are easy KOs with Blizzard and Slash respectively, and Kecleon is a 2HKO to Slash.

I mess up a bit remembering the code for the door, costing me a couple of seconds. I drop an Elixir just to guarantee I dont run out of PP for any move at a crucial time.

Fight 7: Wobbuffet continues to be a thorn in my side, and this battle happens to be no exception. I go for the Slash straight off, and it Counters. Hitmontop's first action was Focus Energy. So I heal just in case it gets a lucky crit or two, then attempt a Surf. Wobbuffet seems to have taken a preference to using Counter, but never Mirror Coat, which helped a lot.

I make a huge mistake here, I select Bite for the KO on Wobbuffet, but I accidentally target Hitmontop! Although top flinches, saving me a bit of time, the low-health Wobbuffet then decides to use Destiny Bond. So I ignore it completely, finish off top, Clamperl and heal when Graveler comes out so Destiny Bond is used up. Then I Surf for the big finish.

In hindsight I should have used the Rare Candy before this battle. I use them after though, a bit of a waste. I equip the Persim Berry, and use the PP Up and HP Up I manage to grab.

Fight 8: Ein became a battle of attrition. First of all, I was only barely able to 3HKO Lanturn, but that didnt go according to plan. I was hoping to get lucky with a Slash, but no such luck. With Huntail also in the lead, it was able to outspeed and use Confuse Ray to put a real bite into my plans. Lanturn survives two Slashes and a Rain-boosted Surf with 1 HP! From there, it continues to be a pain for several turns, requiring me to spend a few turns healing while it uses Thunder. The Full Restore I grabbed earlier removed its paralysis from one Thunder, and also the confusion, which happened to occur at the end of the first Rain. This gave me the opportunity to finally get rid of Lanturn, once I stopped hitting myself. Some time around all that I manage to include the required X-Speed.

Altaria was out next, but the first successful Blizzard misses it! I then manage to get a second Blizzard to hit it, with Golbat next out on the field. My confusion ends, and I click Surf and pray for some serious luck - and it happens! Crit Rain-boosted Surf gets rid of Golbat in one shot, and finished Huntail in the process!! Now I'm left with a +1 Speed Feraligatr against Raikou, no confusion status, and I am guaranteed to beat it. So with all that out the way, despite the messy start of the battle, I finish with a reasonable time.

I grab the Data Rom and the Earthquake TM, and proceed straight to The Under. I can ignore the mail, it was telling me to go straight to Nett anyway. I give the Data Rom to Nett and save next to The Under Colosseum. My next stop is to Realgem, and to begin the admin refights. So yeah, it can only get easier from here.

I reckon if luck had gone entirely my way, I'd be at the save point around 3:37. However, reaching this point in a time of 3:40 is no mean feat either. Stay tuned for the youtube uploads coming soon!

Woooo!!!

Its over!!!!

Its messier than I would have liked, but segment 19 is finally over.

Fight 1: Starts the way I would prefer it, with Nuzleaf out. Nuzleaf is a 2HKO to Torrent Surf, so the first two attacks clear it and the other non-Shadows, leaving Murkrow to be KOed with Blizzard

Fight 2: Great start - Forretress and Pupitar. This leads to Swablu being left on its own, saving me a turn so I can finish it with Blizzard also.

Fight 3: I dont get poisoned by Ariados' Sludge Bomb which saves a fair amount of time. Ariados falls to Surf + Torrent Surf, Grovyle to Slash + Torrent Surf. Slash has a low chance of OHKOing without a crit, but I can finish them both off in one attack if that fails, so I wasnt too bothered about that piece of luck.

Equip the Quick Claw here.

Fight 4: Granbull falls to 3 Surfs, while it constantly uses Scary Face. Linoone does Tail Whip, then Vigoroth comes in for some weak Fury Swipes. Not a threat at all, but I would have preferred Quick Claw to activate in this battle also to overcome the speed reduction from Scary Face.

Fight 5: The big one.

Fight 6: I leave Quick Claw on in order to attempt to catch the fast Swellow with Blizzard off the bat, but it doesnt happen. Vibrava and Kadabra are easy KOs with Blizzard and Slash respectively, and Kecleon is a 2HKO to Slash.

I mess up a bit remembering the code for the door, costing me a couple of seconds. I drop an Elixir just to guarantee I dont run out of PP for any move at a crucial time.

Fight 7: Wobbuffet continues to be a thorn in my side, and this battle happens to be no exception. I go for the Slash straight off, and it Counters. Hitmontop's first action was Focus Energy. So I heal just in case it gets a lucky crit or two, then attempt a Surf. Wobbuffet seems to have taken a preference to using Counter, but never Mirror Coat, which helped a lot.

I make a huge mistake here, I select Bite for the KO on Wobbuffet, but I accidentally target Hitmontop! Although top flinches, saving me a bit of time, the low-health Wobbuffet then decides to use Destiny Bond. So I ignore it completely, finish off top, Clamperl and heal when Graveler comes out so Destiny Bond is used up. Then I Surf for the big finish.

In hindsight I should have used the Rare Candy before this battle. I use them after though, a bit of a waste. I equip the Persim Berry, and use the PP Up and HP Up I manage to grab.

Fight 8: Ein became a battle of attrition. First of all, I was only barely able to 3HKO Lanturn, but that didnt go according to plan. I was hoping to get lucky with a Slash, but no such luck. With Huntail also in the lead, it was able to outspeed and use Confuse Ray to put a real bite into my plans. Lanturn survives two Slashes and a Rain-boosted Surf with 1 HP! From there, it continues to be a pain for several turns, requiring me to spend a few turns healing while it uses Thunder. The Full Restore I grabbed earlier removed its paralysis from one Thunder, and also the confusion, which happened to occur at the end of the first Rain. This gave me the opportunity to finally get rid of Lanturn, once I stopped hitting myself. Some time around all that I manage to include the required X-Speed.

Altaria was out next, but the first successful Blizzard misses it! I then manage to get a second Blizzard to hit it, with Golbat next out on the field. My confusion ends, and I click Surf and pray for some serious luck - and it happens! Crit Rain-boosted Surf gets rid of Golbat in one shot, and finished Huntail in the process!! Now I'm left with a +1 Speed Feraligatr against Raikou, no confusion status, and I am guaranteed to beat it. So with all that out the way, despite the messy start of the battle, I finish with a reasonable time.

I grab the Data Rom and the Earthquake TM, and proceed straight to The Under. I can ignore the mail, it was telling me to go straight to Nett anyway. I give the Data Rom to Nett and save next to The Under Colosseum. My next stop is to Realgem, and to begin the admin refights. So yeah, it can only get easier from here.

I reckon if luck had gone entirely my way, I'd be at the save point around 3:37. However, reaching this point in a time of 3:40 is no mean feat either. Stay tuned for the youtube uploads coming soon!

Beenman500

2009-04-25 08:15:14 am

Joke of all trades

finally what a releif. thats one monster segment, and you didn't have to use the rare candies

Toothache

2009-04-27 11:01:45 am

Let the music play!

Read more carefully, I used the RCs before Ein. I should have, in hindsight, used them before the Skrub 2 fight, but thats only a minor nitpick for exp efficiency's sake.

Anyway, I've completed Segment 20. It was a simple case of beating a trainer that stood in my way, grabbing his Delibird (I shouldnt have glitched the Ultra Ball tbh, but again its only a minor thing), and beating Ein for the second time. You mean I've gone from Ein to Ein 2 within two battles? Yep, and he's amazingly easier this time around than he was the first time, despite his higher level squad. Again, it required me to use an X-Speed to guarantee to outspeed his Starmie, his Golbat also evolved into a Crobat, and again Raikou has a marginal chance of outspeeding if I didnt use an X-Speed. Once again, he uses ThunderDancing, but instead of confusion, this time around his status of choice is Toxic, which is much easier to handle. Both Pelipper and Crobat have Fly, which can become kind of annoying, and Crobat and Rhydon sport both Toxic and Protect, with the latter also having Dig. Yeah, its basically classic Trapbat without the Mean Look. I should also mention I learned Earthquake at the start of this segment, since I discovered Slash is basically useless from here on it gets replaced, and equip Feraligatr with the Exp Share.

From here, I go to Agate and collect the Master Ball. Eagun wont give you the Master Ball until you've read his mail, but if I read it in Eagun's house it stops a line of dialogue from my partner, so that saved a fraction of time. I do a bit of shopping from here - 11 Hyper Potions, 11 Revives, and I even shell out on a Calcium to increase my SpAtt. The Revives will be necessary to guarantee I get the ball-dupe glitch during the not-so-Elite 4 and a few places besides, and I may need to purchase more later, we will see. From here, I head back to Realgem and save.

I've also decided on my route for the final 3 Admins. On top of Delibird and Aipom, I will also pull out my Helping Hand users for some damage boosting. Now that I have the Master Ball, I can snag Entei, I just have to be careful it doesnt come out into a STAB Earthquake or something. It can probably survive Claydol's EQ, but not Flygon's. I will get Entei first, just to have another level for when I tackle Miror B, which I will do next.

Miror B's team consists of only 2 Ludicolo this time, one with Rain Dish and one with Swift Swim. The Rain Dish is the more threatening of the two since it uses Leech Seed then Giga Drain, so I need rid of it before anything. The Swift Swimmer will attack my partners primarily using Rain-boosted Waterfall. No Astonish flinchax to worry about this time :-) He also has a Golduck, and a Loudred, and the Sudowoodo I snagged earlier was replaced by an Armaldo, neither of which are particular a threat to Feraligatr, especially with all the partners he has now (Aipom, Delibird, Plusle, Espeon, Entei) to draw their fire.

Those two admins will be Segment 21. As for Segment 22, I have the Shadow Sunflora snag to manage, then its on to Venus 2. This one is again a whole load easier than her first battle. The male Attract users this time around are Misdreavus, which falls to Bite or Hydro Pump, which gets learned during this battle, and Raichu, which falls to Earthquake. The biggest worry is her Bellossom, which is a 2HKO to unboosted Blizzard, but I also have to hope it doesnt use Giga Drain or that becomes a 3HKO. I can either hope for a Stun Spore miss or trying to use Attract on one of the partner Pokemon. Suicune is easily dealt with by Earthquake.

From here, I go to the door requiring the colour keys gained from the admins, and use all four to unlock the door. Dropping from the ceiling is a trainer with another Shadow Pokemon, this time it is Heracross (the big bug boss :-) ). Snagging that, I move on. I have a forced fight here, no Shadow this time, but nothing to worry about. There are a whole load of trainers in this segment, but thankfully I only am required to face one of them. We meet up with Silva, who allows you up the elevator to greet Nascour. He taunts you for a bit, then disappears. Chasing after him, you discover none other than Gonzap!

Snagem Head Gonzap is a bit of a pain, but he's much easier here than his second fight. He has Crawdaunt, Shiftry, Pinsir, Hariyama, and Shadow Skarmory. The Pinsir and Hariyama love to use Earthquake so it is wise to use Delibird when they are out to save me a turn. Shiftry, although a Grass type, is not a very defensive one so can fall after a Blizzard + some other attacks. Crawdaunt probably cant take more than one Earthquake.

From here, I head to the save point, beat up the trainer at the heal machine (Helping Hand Surf or Earthquake does the trick against his pair of Normal types), heal, and deposit everything except Plusle and Espeon, and withdraw Skarmory. Segment 23 will be the not-so-Elite 4, and I'll describe them in full once the segment is actually complete and you can see it for yourself. I could even just use two Revives for Espeon and Plusle and save myself a couple of minutes fighting the trainer at the heal machine. I probably wont even need an Elixir for gatr, since you get a free heal before Nascour, and another one before Evice.

Read more carefully, I used the RCs before Ein. I should have, in hindsight, used them before the Skrub 2 fight, but thats only a minor nitpick for exp efficiency's sake.

Anyway, I've completed Segment 20. It was a simple case of beating a trainer that stood in my way, grabbing his Delibird (I shouldnt have glitched the Ultra Ball tbh, but again its only a minor thing), and beating Ein for the second time. You mean I've gone from Ein to Ein 2 within two battles? Yep, and he's amazingly easier this time around than he was the first time, despite his higher level squad. Again, it required me to use an X-Speed to guarantee to outspeed his Starmie, his Golbat also evolved into a Crobat, and again Raikou has a marginal chance of outspeeding if I didnt use an X-Speed. Once again, he uses ThunderDancing, but instead of confusion, this time around his status of choice is Toxic, which is much easier to handle. Both Pelipper and Crobat have Fly, which can become kind of annoying, and Crobat and Rhydon sport both Toxic and Protect, with the latter also having Dig. Yeah, its basically classic Trapbat without the Mean Look. I should also mention I learned Earthquake at the start of this segment, since I discovered Slash is basically useless from here on it gets replaced, and equip Feraligatr with the Exp Share.

From here, I go to Agate and collect the Master Ball. Eagun wont give you the Master Ball until you've read his mail, but if I read it in Eagun's house it stops a line of dialogue from my partner, so that saved a fraction of time. I do a bit of shopping from here - 11 Hyper Potions, 11 Revives, and I even shell out on a Calcium to increase my SpAtt. The Revives will be necessary to guarantee I get the ball-dupe glitch during the not-so-Elite 4 and a few places besides, and I may need to purchase more later, we will see. From here, I head back to Realgem and save.

I've also decided on my route for the final 3 Admins. On top of Delibird and Aipom, I will also pull out my Helping Hand users for some damage boosting. Now that I have the Master Ball, I can snag Entei, I just have to be careful it doesnt come out into a STAB Earthquake or something. It can probably survive Claydol's EQ, but not Flygon's. I will get Entei first, just to have another level for when I tackle Miror B, which I will do next.

Miror B's team consists of only 2 Ludicolo this time, one with Rain Dish and one with Swift Swim. The Rain Dish is the more threatening of the two since it uses Leech Seed then Giga Drain, so I need rid of it before anything. The Swift Swimmer will attack my partners primarily using Rain-boosted Waterfall. No Astonish flinchax to worry about this time :-) He also has a Golduck, and a Loudred, and the Sudowoodo I snagged earlier was replaced by an Armaldo, neither of which are particular a threat to Feraligatr, especially with all the partners he has now (Aipom, Delibird, Plusle, Espeon, Entei) to draw their fire.

Those two admins will be Segment 21. As for Segment 22, I have the Shadow Sunflora snag to manage, then its on to Venus 2. This one is again a whole load easier than her first battle. The male Attract users this time around are Misdreavus, which falls to Bite or Hydro Pump, which gets learned during this battle, and Raichu, which falls to Earthquake. The biggest worry is her Bellossom, which is a 2HKO to unboosted Blizzard, but I also have to hope it doesnt use Giga Drain or that becomes a 3HKO. I can either hope for a Stun Spore miss or trying to use Attract on one of the partner Pokemon. Suicune is easily dealt with by Earthquake.

From here, I go to the door requiring the colour keys gained from the admins, and use all four to unlock the door. Dropping from the ceiling is a trainer with another Shadow Pokemon, this time it is Heracross (the big bug boss :-) ). Snagging that, I move on. I have a forced fight here, no Shadow this time, but nothing to worry about. There are a whole load of trainers in this segment, but thankfully I only am required to face one of them. We meet up with Silva, who allows you up the elevator to greet Nascour. He taunts you for a bit, then disappears. Chasing after him, you discover none other than Gonzap!

Snagem Head Gonzap is a bit of a pain, but he's much easier here than his second fight. He has Crawdaunt, Shiftry, Pinsir, Hariyama, and Shadow Skarmory. The Pinsir and Hariyama love to use Earthquake so it is wise to use Delibird when they are out to save me a turn. Shiftry, although a Grass type, is not a very defensive one so can fall after a Blizzard + some other attacks. Crawdaunt probably cant take more than one Earthquake.

From here, I head to the save point, beat up the trainer at the heal machine (Helping Hand Surf or Earthquake does the trick against his pair of Normal types), heal, and deposit everything except Plusle and Espeon, and withdraw Skarmory. Segment 23 will be the not-so-Elite 4, and I'll describe them in full once the segment is actually complete and you can see it for yourself. I could even just use two Revives for Espeon and Plusle and save myself a couple of minutes fighting the trainer at the heal machine. I probably wont even need an Elixir for gatr, since you get a free heal before Nascour, and another one before Evice.

petrie911

2009-04-27 11:47:51 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Why would you bother with the heal machine? You should be able to heal by depositing and withdrawing from the PC.

Toothache

2009-05-07 07:45:54 am

Let the music play!

Because it is much faster. I would have to withdraw a non-fainted Pokemon, since I must have at least one other in my party, deposit Feraligatr and everything I want to use as a partner, and then withdraw them manually. You will see at the start of Segment 21 how slow withdrawing just two Pokemon is, when I can just use a heal machine for around 6-7 seconds total. It is also much faster than going through the menus, finding Hyper Potions (of which I have a limited supply) and possibly Elixirs.

Segment 20 Part A:
Segment 20 Part B:
Segment 21:

If you really want to argue about using the heal machine vs depositing/withdrawing in the PC, watch the first 40 seconds of Segment 21 to see how much faster the heal machine is. Bear in mind if Feraligatr is the only Pokemon conscious and I want to heal it, I would have to withdraw something else, then deposit Feraligatr, then withdraw her again, then deposit the other pokemon if I dont need it, which is a real time drain.

Because it is much faster. I would have to withdraw a non-fainted Pokemon, since I must have at least one other in my party, deposit Feraligatr and everything I want to use as a partner, and then withdraw them manually. You will see at the start of Segment 21 how slow withdrawing just two Pokemon is, when I can just use a heal machine for around 6-7 seconds total. It is also much faster than going through the menus, finding Hyper Potions (of which I have a limited supply) and possibly Elixirs.

Segment 20 Part A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKCPE6wyGCo
Segment 20 Part B: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_PNqVaqDQU
Segment 21: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIHyqjngH5g

If you really want to argue about using the heal machine vs depositing/withdrawing in the PC, watch the first 40 seconds of Segment 21 to see how much faster the heal machine is. Bear in mind if Feraligatr is the only Pokemon conscious and I want to heal it, I would have to withdraw something else, then deposit Feraligatr, then withdraw her again, then deposit the other pokemon if I dont need it, which is a real time drain.

Thomaz

2009-05-08 12:10:24 am

Catchin' them all

Awesome so far, Tooth! Cheesy

Great job.

And yeah, just healing is definitely faster.

petrie911

2009-05-08 10:45:02 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

I should have been more specific. Obviously the healing machine is faster, all other things equal. In my comment, I was referring to this...

Quote from Toothache:

From here, I head to the save point, beat up the trainer at the heal machine (Helping Hand Surf or Earthquake does the trick against his pair of Normal types), heal, and deposit everything except Plusle and Espeon, and withdraw Skarmory.

Surely depositing and withdrawing would be faster than a trainer battle, unless you desperately need that EXP for some reason. Unless said trainer also blocks access to the PC.

Anyways, great job. I definitely want to see how you handle the final battles.

Toothache

2009-05-09 02:45:57 am

Let the music play!

Actually thinking about it, I have enough PP that I can avoid depositing Feraligatr to heal her. All I need to do after beating Gonzap is deposit everything except Plusle and Espeon for the Helping Hand support (deposit/withdraw is actually quicker for healing them than Revives in this case), withdraw Skarmory as my bulky flier to avoid hurting my partner with Earthquake, and save. The extra trainer only blocks the heal machine, which I can do without. I get a free heal before Nascour, and another one before Evice, so that saves me using a second Elixir. I need Skarmory because it can take several hits, as well as being immune to Earthquake.

A quick run down of the battles in this current segment:

Cipher Peon Baila: I can beat this battle in a single turn. I use the Calcium I bought earlier to give me a better chance of KOing her Gloom with Blizzard. The basic premise is here, snag Sunflora, then use Blizzard to take out both Gloom and Jumpluff in one shot.

Venus 2: This is a fairly complex battle, but I need to finish it with Feraligatr in Torrent range for the next battle. Raichu falls to Earthquake, and Misdreavus falls to Bite + partner attack, or Hydro Pump if I learn it before Missy appears (it is learned during this battle). The real pain comes from her Bellossom - it is a 2HKO with doubles Blizzard, but it has Giga Drain so that usually turns into a 3HKO without some partner support, either by Helping Hand or Shadow Rush. I also have to be careful it does not decide to use Stun Spore. Wigglytuff isnt much of a problem. I dont snag Suicune here since it is replaced by Milotic later, a very bulky water type with Recover, and a huge time drain overall.

Battle 3: This one requires Torrent. Torrent Surf KOs Ariados and nearly KOs Masquerain, which always leads, and I do the remainder of the damage with my partner (Aipom). Heracross is then just a case of an easy snag.

Battle 4: I forget this guy's name. Anyway, his theme is Fake Out. Fake Out is a move that has priority, but only works on the first turn, and causes you to flinch. Three of his four have the move, with the exception being Graveler. I need Blizzard for Nuzleaf, Earthquake for Hariyama, and Lombre cant take too much punishment from Earthquake either. Overall not a challenging fight at all, it just takes a bit longer than normal because of the flinch.

Snagem Head Gonzap: Oh boy this is a big one. His team is the highest level yet, and they're all pretty tough. He has a Crawdaunt, Hariyama, Shiftry, Pinsir, and Shadow Skarmory. Earthquake is my best move for Crawdaunt and Hariyama, Shiftry hates Blizzard, and Pinsir is best served with Surf. I have to beware of some heavy hitting moves from his Pokemon, including his own Earthquakes and Hariyama's Arm Thrust. The snag is a piece of cake as always.

Next stop its to the nearby save point. I can avoid the trainer here, I should have enough PP to get through the next few battles, if not I can use an Elixir. As mentioned above, I heal Feraligatr, drop off everything, then withdraw Espeon, Plusle, and the Skarmory I just snagged to aid me through the not-so-Elite Four.

Actually thinking about it, I have enough PP that I can avoid depositing Feraligatr to heal her. All I need to do after beating Gonzap is deposit everything except Plusle and Espeon for the Helping Hand support (deposit/withdraw is actually quicker for healing them than Revives in this case), withdraw Skarmory as my bulky flier to avoid hurting my partner with Earthquake, and save. The extra trainer only blocks the heal machine, which I can do without. I get a free heal before Nascour, and another one before Evice, so that saves me using a second Elixir. I need Skarmory because it can take several hits, as well as being immune to Earthquake.

A quick run down of the battles in this current segment:

Cipher Peon Baila: I can beat this battle in a single turn. I use the Calcium I bought earlier to give me a better chance of KOing her Gloom with Blizzard. The basic premise is here, snag Sunflora, then use Blizzard to take out both Gloom and Jumpluff in one shot.

Venus 2: This is a fairly complex battle, but I need to finish it with Feraligatr in Torrent range for the next battle. Raichu falls to Earthquake, and Misdreavus falls to Bite + partner attack, or Hydro Pump if I learn it before Missy appears (it is learned during this battle). The real pain comes from her Bellossom - it is a 2HKO with doubles Blizzard, but it has Giga Drain so that usually turns into a 3HKO without some partner support, either by Helping Hand or Shadow Rush. I also have to be careful it does not decide to use Stun Spore. Wigglytuff isnt much of a problem. I dont snag Suicune here since it is replaced by Milotic later, a very bulky water type with Recover, and a huge time drain overall.

Battle 3: This one requires Torrent. Torrent Surf KOs Ariados and nearly KOs Masquerain, which always leads, and I do the remainder of the damage with my partner (Aipom). Heracross is then just a case of an easy snag.

Battle 4: I forget this guy's name. Anyway, his theme is Fake Out. Fake Out is a move that has priority, but only works on the first turn, and causes you to flinch. Three of his four have the move, with the exception being Graveler. I need Blizzard for Nuzleaf, Earthquake for Hariyama, and Lombre cant take too much punishment from Earthquake either. Overall not a challenging fight at all, it just takes a bit longer than normal because of the flinch.

Snagem Head Gonzap: Oh boy this is a big one. His team is the highest level yet, and they're all pretty tough. He has a Crawdaunt, Hariyama, Shiftry, Pinsir, and Shadow Skarmory. Earthquake is my best move for Crawdaunt and Hariyama, Shiftry hates Blizzard, and Pinsir is best served with Surf. I have to beware of some heavy hitting moves from his Pokemon, including his own Earthquakes and Hariyama's Arm Thrust. The snag is a piece of cake as always.

Next stop its to the nearby save point. I can avoid the trainer here, I should have enough PP to get through the next few battles, if not I can use an Elixir. As mentioned above, I heal Feraligatr, drop off everything, then withdraw Espeon, Plusle, and the Skarmory I just snagged to aid me through the not-so-Elite Four.

Beenman500

2009-05-15 01:58:20 pm

Joke of all trades

just saw the new segment(22) and its all coming together nicely, cudos to you planning skills. Also why do you call them the "not so ellite 4" i don't remember them being that easy, but then i never did have an overleved feraligator, or even a feraligator sooooo. Regardless i'm looking forward to the next segment.

p.s. sorry about saying your "runnung in circles" was reject worthy. I didn't mean to upset you or anything and you are in unknown ground of sorts so if i verify, it woouldn't be rejected on that basis. don't get sloppy mind

Toothache

2009-05-15 03:43:10 pm

Let the music play!

I wasnt upset by it. It just kind of showed that you werent as familiar with the game, so I took the time to try and explain why :-p

For anyone who wants to see the complete Segment 22, here it is:
Part A:
Part B:
Part C:

As you can see, this ended up being very heavily reliant on Blizzard, which I had to use no less than 6 times (it would have been 7 if not for the Shiftry crit) in this segment alone. Blizzard if you are not aware has 70% accuracy, and in this case it hit 11 times in this segment, which is odds of about 1.9%. And thats not counting the random freeze on Bellossom or crit on Shiftry. So yeah, a lot of luck needed, but it turned out ok in the end.

I call them the not-so-Elite four because, they are quite frankly a joke when compared to the E4 of the handheld games. Sure they each have a type (normal, dark, fire and grass) but they only have 3 Pokemon each, 4 for the last one, and one is snagged meaning I only have to KO two or three Pokemon, speeding up their fights. The fire trainer is finished in a single turn, in fact, much like the first battle of Segment 22.

As for Nascour, he has levels comparable to Feraligatr's (55ish vs 60-61 at this point), but can be a walk in the park with the right luck. His team is Walrein, Blaziken, Gardevior, Xatu, Dusclops, and Shadow Metagross. With Helping Hand support you can get easily get a lot of damage on this team, although Walrein may take a couple of Earthquakes, Gardevior has Thunderbolt and Dusclops likes to pile on the status. And bear in mind Nascour will also use X-items on his Pokemon making them more of a threat if they are not dealt with quickly.

Evice is next, and his team's level now ties with Feraligatr's, being in the 60-61 range, a jump of over 12 levels from the start of this segment. It is also very dangerous, sporting a lot of heavy hitters. The team is Slowking, Slaking, Scizor, Machamp, Salamence and Shadow Tyranitar. Again he loves to pour on the X-items, but this can work in your favour because it gives you an extra turn to rid yourself of them. Things to worry about are Slaking's Crush Claw, which can lower Defence and can make subsequent attacks hurt a lot more, and Slowking actually has Skill Swap which takes away Slaking's Truant ability, making it even more dangerous. What is worse, Slaking's defences are beefy enough to take a couple of hits, although maybe not with enough HH support. I have to also bear in mind his special hitters, Salamence and Slowking, since I do have a -SpD nature after all and Psychic can lower that further.

Thankfully, before Nascour, and again before Evice, the game gives you free heals, meaning I can save my revives and elixirs, and concentrate on just taking out my opponents. With Hydro Pump now in my arsenal, I can potentially OHKO a single target if they should prove a threat (Nascour's Dusclops, with its many status effect will likely be one such target), even without Helping Hand. Torrented Hydro Pump is a powerful tool to have at my disposal, but I will use it sparingly throughout the rest of the run since overall, Surf does more damage across both targets, and of course Hydro Pump has both accuracy and PP issues, making Surf a more consistent choice.

I wasnt upset by it. It just kind of showed that you werent as familiar with the game, so I took the time to try and explain why :-p

For anyone who wants to see the complete Segment 22, here it is:
Part A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3HJzJ287jk
Part B: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHZBhVXqDj0
Part C: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxEfZFqttFY

As you can see, this ended up being very heavily reliant on Blizzard, which I had to use no less than 6 times (it would have been 7 if not for the Shiftry crit) in this segment alone. Blizzard if you are not aware has 70% accuracy, and in this case it hit 11 times in this segment, which is odds of about 1.9%. And thats not counting the random freeze on Bellossom or crit on Shiftry. So yeah, a lot of luck needed, but it turned out ok in the end.

I call them the not-so-Elite four because, they are quite frankly a joke when compared to the E4 of the handheld games. Sure they each have a type (normal, dark, fire and grass) but they only have 3 Pokemon each, 4 for the last one, and one is snagged meaning I only have to KO two or three Pokemon, speeding up their fights. The fire trainer is finished in a single turn, in fact, much like the first battle of Segment 22.

As for Nascour, he has levels comparable to Feraligatr's (55ish vs 60-61 at this point), but can be a walk in the park with the right luck. His team is Walrein, Blaziken, Gardevior, Xatu, Dusclops, and Shadow Metagross. With Helping Hand support you can get easily get a lot of damage on this team, although Walrein may take a couple of Earthquakes, Gardevior has Thunderbolt and Dusclops likes to pile on the status. And bear in mind Nascour will also use X-items on his Pokemon making them more of a threat if they are not dealt with quickly.

Evice is next, and his team's level now ties with Feraligatr's, being in the 60-61 range, a jump of over 12 levels from the start of this segment. It is also very dangerous, sporting a lot of heavy hitters. The team is Slowking, Slaking, Scizor, Machamp, Salamence and Shadow Tyranitar. Again he loves to pour on the X-items, but this can work in your favour because it gives you an extra turn to rid yourself of them. Things to worry about are Slaking's Crush Claw, which can lower Defence and can make subsequent attacks hurt a lot more, and Slowking actually has Skill Swap which takes away Slaking's Truant ability, making it even more dangerous. What is worse, Slaking's defences are beefy enough to take a couple of hits, although maybe not with enough HH support. I have to also bear in mind his special hitters, Salamence and Slowking, since I do have a -SpD nature after all and Psychic can lower that further.

Thankfully, before Nascour, and again before Evice, the game gives you free heals, meaning I can save my revives and elixirs, and concentrate on just taking out my opponents. With Hydro Pump now in my arsenal, I can potentially OHKO a single target if they should prove a threat (Nascour's Dusclops, with its many status effect will likely be one such target), even without Helping Hand. Torrented Hydro Pump is a powerful tool to have at my disposal, but I will use it sparingly throughout the rest of the run since overall, Surf does more damage across both targets, and of course Hydro Pump has both accuracy and PP issues, making Surf a more consistent choice.