Pokemon Colosseum! 100% 7:17!! Improvement on the way!!!

2009-02-06 11:01:32 am

Let the music play!

The IVs and nature are certainly changeable in this game. I've taken the time to soft-reset over many months at one stage, and managed to acquire a good Hidden Power Electric Suicune (27/x/16/31/31/0 Relaxed, Hidden Power Electric 61). Why I'm having such a hard time getting a crit out of Umbreon, I cannot say just yet, but I'm reminded of the skewed RNG of the Battle Tower and Battle Frontier, which favours the AI with more crits, so I am wondering whether the odds of anything in Colosseum is not exactly the same as in the handheld games. This is another possibility I am working under.

gia

2009-02-06 11:09:31 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

thats a pokemon you catch I mean the other enemies, I could see the nature being random, finding addresses would be the only way I guess

Toothache

2009-02-06 11:23:40 am

Let the music play!

Yeah the other pokemon are entirely random as well. For example, in the Corphish/Koffing battle, I sometimes change it around and have them target the other enemy, since Espeon can OHKO Corphish anyway. I've seen Umbreon do as low as around 40% but as much as 55% to Koffing. And thats just one example of many I've seen where the IVs and nature are not fixed. So, it is not true that the IVs and nature are fixed in any way for any of the enemies. The only thing I have noticed to be fixed so far, beyond all that, is the gender of Venus's Pokemon, so I'm wondering why that might be. The Espeon and Umbreon you get at the start are always male too, regardless of the IV/nature, so I assume that genders being fixed does not mean the IVs and natures are fixed in this case either.

Toothache

Edit history:

Toothache: 2009-02-10 04:19:58 am

2009-02-10 04:13:26 am

Let the music play!

Ok, I've reached the point now where I can safely say that crits wont just happen if I restart a few times. After now 100 battles from the same save, Umbreon has failed to crit every single time. Its not that the game wont give crits, since I've seen Espeon crit 5 times in that period, a little below average but not unreasonable. (Crit rate is 1/16, so 6 crits would be the average in 100 battles) For some reason, it wont allow Umbreon to crit no matter what I do. I want to continue the run, so I dont have time to test it further, but to be honest it would need someone with the ability to hack the game and example the RNG itself to determine exactly why this happens.

With that in mind, I decided to do the next best thing and allow Umbreon to flinch instead. I've have at least seen that happen, there is video evidence to prove it, and it has higher odds of causing a flinch than a critical hit (10% chance). Flinch chance only works when you are faster, but for all 6 of Umbreon's battles that is not a problem, even with the -Speed nature he is still fast enough to cause flinches on all his opponents.

So, for the three battles in Segment 2, my plan is this:
Battle 1: Team Snagem Wakim - Corphish and Koffing
Turn 1: Espeon SE Confusion on Koffing, Umbreon Bite flinch on Corphish
Turn 2: finish Corphish with Espeon Return

Battle 2: Cipher Peon Trudly 2 - Whismur and Lotad
Turn 1: Espeon Confusion on Whismur, Umbreon Bite flinch on Lotad
Turn 2: finish Lotad with Espeon Return

Battle 3: Cipher Peon Folly - Spinarak, Duskull, Shadow Makuhita
Turn 1: Espeon SE Confuson on Spinarak, Umbreon KO Duskull with Bite
Turn 2: Espeon Return, Umbreon Secret Power, paralyse Makuhita, full paralysis
Turn 3: ball dupe Great Ball and snag

If I remember correctly, Secret Power has a 30% chance of inflicting a status, in Makuhita's case paralysis (the type of effect changes depending on the location), which is a good odds. I cannot afford to take any damage at all in these battles, so the crits or flinches are essential. The next best thing for Makuhita to do, if it is not fully paralysed, is for it to use Focus Energy on its first turn. Duskull does not require a critical hit for Umbreon to OHKO, but it does require the IVs to be reasonably low, or for it to have a -SpDef nature (and still the IVs cannot be too high). I believe Lotad has Foresight, as does Duskull, so using those non-damaging moves would be a safe alternative to being flinched or KOed, but not a faster time. However I will take the fastest I can manage, and plan to be sub-20 minutes by the second save (it is possible if the battles allow)

Oh, and I forgot to mention: I added the first segment to YouTube. Watch it here:

Ok, I've reached the point now where I can safely say that crits wont just happen if I restart a few times. After now 100 battles from the same save, Umbreon has failed to crit every single time. Its not that the game wont give crits, since I've seen Espeon crit 5 times in that period, a little below average but not unreasonable. (Crit rate is 1/16, so 6 crits would be the average in 100 battles) For some reason, it wont allow Umbreon to crit no matter what I do. I want to continue the run, so I dont have time to test it further, but to be honest it would need someone with the ability to hack the game and example the RNG itself to determine exactly why this happens.

With that in mind, I decided to do the next best thing and allow Umbreon to flinch instead. I've have at least seen that happen, there is video evidence to prove it, and it has higher odds of causing a flinch than a critical hit (10% chance). Flinch chance only works when you are faster, but for all 6 of Umbreon's battles that is not a problem, even with the -Speed nature he is still fast enough to cause flinches on all his opponents.

So, for the three battles in Segment 2, my plan is this:
Battle 1: Team Snagem Wakim - Corphish and Koffing
Turn 1: Espeon SE Confusion on Koffing, Umbreon Bite flinch on Corphish
Turn 2: finish Corphish with Espeon Return

Battle 2: Cipher Peon Trudly 2 - Whismur and Lotad
Turn 1: Espeon Confusion on Whismur, Umbreon Bite flinch on Lotad
Turn 2: finish Lotad with Espeon Return

Battle 3: Cipher Peon Folly - Spinarak, Duskull, Shadow Makuhita
Turn 1: Espeon SE Confuson on Spinarak, Umbreon KO Duskull with Bite
Turn 2: Espeon Return, Umbreon Secret Power, paralyse Makuhita, full paralysis
Turn 3: ball dupe Great Ball and snag

If I remember correctly, Secret Power has a 30% chance of inflicting a status, in Makuhita's case paralysis (the type of effect changes depending on the location), which is a good odds. I cannot afford to take any damage at all in these battles, so the crits or flinches are essential. The next best thing for Makuhita to do, if it is not fully paralysed, is for it to use Focus Energy on its first turn. Duskull does not require a critical hit for Umbreon to OHKO, but it does require the IVs to be reasonably low, or for it to have a -SpDef nature (and still the IVs cannot be too high). I believe Lotad has Foresight, as does Duskull, so using those non-damaging moves would be a safe alternative to being flinched or KOed, but not a faster time. However I will take the fastest I can manage, and plan to be sub-20 minutes by the second save (it is possible if the battles allow)

Oh, and I forgot to mention: I added the first segment to YouTube. Watch it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNWUBHT6N-I

yoshmaster5

2009-02-10 10:52:17 am

Also tenkiforecast

Yes, secret power does have a 30% status effect. And because virtually every fight in indoors in this game, the effect is paralysis.

As for the crits... 0_o; All I can say is... that is some epicly horrid luck. *shudders* All I can say is keep going, fortune is both good and bad.

Toothache

2009-02-18 04:05:05 am

Let the music play!

I should advertise my segments sooner. Segment 2 is up:
Segment 2 Part A:
Segment 2 Part B:

Why did I carry on after speaking to the woman twice? I dont know, that should have been a reset, but in a way I'm glad I did, it meant I got through this segment in my fastest time yet, even with that glaring mistake. Had a complete brainfart because of that, went the wrong way around the fountain and had to avoid Dash. Those flinches really made this segment a lot faster than it should have been however, so I decided to keep it even with those mistakes.

Segment 3 isnt going too well, since its basically the resetting on Croconaw and thats just pure luck, getting the right gender, nature and IVs to align. I'll get there eventually, it will probably take me a long while. I expected segment 1 to be the most annoying of the two IV-resetting segments. Its amazing I got through those first two segments without taking a single point of damage, but that will not be the case in segment 3 for sure. It doesnt matter how much Umbreon takes though, since after the Croconaw battle he will not appear for the rest of the game, so I need Umbreon to take any hits to save any time using a potion on Espeon. Croconaw will often use Surf though, which damages Espeon too for mid-ranging damage at this point (about 25 damage out of 73 HP).

Battle strategy I've found to be the best is this:
Turn 1: Espeon Confusion KO on Grimer, Spoink sent out, Croconaw acts, Umbreon Bite on Spoink
Turn 2: Espeon Confusion on Croconaw, Croconaw acts, Umbreon Bite KO on Spoink
Turn 3: Great Ball dupe snag, Espeon selects Return

I allow myself a single failed snag attempt, because of the importance of getting a good Croconaw, but I will reset if the battle takes more than 4 turns or Espeon is somehow fainted.

I should advertise my segments sooner. Segment 2 is up: 
Segment 2 Part A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU_tLCvZIZY
Segment 2 Part B: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIu9KtWbcik

Why did I carry on after speaking to the woman twice? I dont know, that should have been a reset, but in a way I'm glad I did, it meant I got through this segment in my fastest time yet, even with that glaring mistake. Had a complete brainfart because of that, went the wrong way around the fountain and had to avoid Dash. Those flinches really made this segment a lot faster than it should have been however, so I decided to keep it even with those mistakes.

Segment 3 isnt going too well, since its basically the resetting on Croconaw and thats just pure luck, getting the right gender, nature and IVs to align. I'll get there eventually, it will probably take me a long while. I expected segment 1 to be the most annoying of the two IV-resetting segments. Its amazing I got through those first two segments without taking a single point of damage, but that will not be the case in segment 3 for sure. It doesnt matter how much Umbreon takes though, since after the Croconaw battle he will not appear for the rest of the game, so I need Umbreon to take any hits to save any time using a potion on Espeon. Croconaw will often use Surf though, which damages Espeon too for mid-ranging damage at this point (about 25 damage out of 73 HP).

Battle strategy I've found to be the best is this:
Turn 1: Espeon Confusion KO on Grimer, Spoink sent out, Croconaw acts, Umbreon Bite on Spoink
Turn 2: Espeon Confusion on Croconaw, Croconaw acts, Umbreon Bite KO on Spoink
Turn 3: Great Ball dupe snag, Espeon selects Return

I allow myself a single failed snag attempt, because of the importance of getting a good Croconaw, but I will reset if the battle takes more than 4 turns or Espeon is somehow fainted.

DoubleThink

2009-02-18 05:08:17 am

There's a word for that

Hey hey hey! This is nice. I never got to play Colosseum, but I thought the idea of a story-driven Pokemon game - in 3D!!! - was pretty sweet. Looks like I was right, although that running animation's a bit strange...
The battles so far look fine to me. Attack animation time will be a big deciding factor in this run, so it's good that Return is nice and quick. Also, Bite has a 30% chance to flinch, so the odds of three successful ones are (0.3^3) = 2.7% = 1/37. Not too bad really, but it's a shame you couldn't get Bite to crit AT ALL. Anyways, I'm gonna have a lot of fun watching this one. Glad you decided to run it Smiley

"I get it, I." Grin

Toothache

2009-02-18 05:44:35 am

Let the music play!

Yeah the way he runs is pretty weird, it causes me a few problems with movement. Also there is weird collision-detection in this game, every item that can be interacted with (item boxes) and people have their own proximity area which is surprisingly large, meaning I can speak to someone or pick up an item from a fair distance away. It also means I have to give people a wider berth than most games would normally allow - I can't just brush past someone, because if I get too close it basically stops me running altogether. It is most annoying since your partner also causes the same problem, and in those parts where you have to turn around she will slow you down immensely, costing around 1-2 seconds if done badly. The momentum drop is huge, so I try and avoid people if I can. Exiting the Pokemon Centre in Phenac also caused me several resets too, because the little girl that randomly wanders around will often get in my way. The old woman near the mayor's house gave me a few nightmares too.

PMIT

2009-02-18 09:08:11 pm

Quote from Toothache:

Croconaw will often use Surf though, which damages Espeon too for mid-ranging damage at this point (about 25 damage out of 73 HP).

Wait, I thought Surf hitting your partner was 4th gen only.

Nonetheless, I'm impressed so far, so keep up the good work, and good luck.

yoshmaster5

2009-02-18 09:11:06 pm

Also tenkiforecast

Surf hits your partner only in 4th gen, correct.

Toothache

2009-02-19 03:04:05 am

Let the music play!

At this point, Croconaw is my enemy, not my partner, so my point still stands, Espeon is at risk of taking damage during this battle (it is more likely for the AI to select Surf/Bite over Shadow Rush when the relevant IV is higher - the fourth move is Scary Face). I have noticed, depending on which 'slot' the enemy Pokemon appear in, they have a tendency to target one of your Pokemon more often than the other one. Usually its a case of the first enemy out targets your second Pokemon more often, and vice versa. However Croconaw and Umbreon are both the first ones out, which is most interesting. I wonder, if not only can hits/crits/secondary effects be manipulated, but also which Pokemon is targeted. This could be very important in setting up Torrent for example.

Beenman500

2009-02-19 05:07:14 am

Joke of all trades

What IV's/nature are you looking to except on crocnaw. Because it looks like it would be the hardest IV manipulation in any pokemon run, what with coloseum battles talking so long.

Toothache

Edit history:

Toothache: 2009-02-19 06:44:40 am

2009-02-19 06:36:45 am

Let the music play!

Ideally I want a female Croconaw, with max Att/SpAtt/Speed, with Mild or Rash nature and decent defences. I need to be able to take a few hits, because the nature of double battles means that even with the best coverage there are some instances where I will 2HKO opponents. A good example of this was in my test run, where I could barely survive a Magneton Thunder from full health, my test Feraligatr having a Rash nature but mid-ranging IV (12-14 iirc). Mild is preferred, since Feraliagtr's weaknesses are all special and she needs all the SpDef she can get.

Ignoring the IV for HP for now, since it is unaffected by nature, I decided on this being my range to accept for the run:
Att - 60-62 (24-31 IV)
Def - 53 or below for Mild guarantee, -Def nature can go as high as 55, otherwise anywhere as high as 62
SpAtt - 53 (29-31 IV)
SpDef - 42 or below for Rash guarantee, -SpDef nature can go as high as 46, otherwise anywhere as high as 52
Speed - 45-49 (this guarantees I dont have a -Speed nature by mistake and gives me a good IV range for Speed - 18-31)

This seems a bit awkward to explain, but you dont get to find out the nature until after 2 shadow bars are uncovered, so I have to guess. This range of stats gives me the best chance of guaranteeing to pull out a Mild or Rash Croconaw. The Def range is based on comparing 0 IV neutral with 31 IV -Def. The SpDef range is similarly figured out. The 'guarantee' comes for Def if the SpDef is above 46 (47-52), and the 'guarantee' for SpDef is if the Def is above 55 (56-62)

The HP range is 79-88, so anything above 85 would be considered perfect.

Ideally I want a female Croconaw, with max Att/SpAtt/Speed, with Mild or Rash nature and decent defences. I need to be able to take a few hits, because the nature of double battles means that even with the best coverage there are some instances where I will 2HKO opponents. A good example of this was in my test run, where I could barely survive a Magneton Thunder from full health, my test Feraligatr having a Rash nature but mid-ranging IV (12-14 iirc). Mild is preferred, since Feraliagtr's weaknesses are all special and she needs all the SpDef she can get.

Ignoring the IV for HP for now, since it is unaffected by nature, I decided on this being my range to accept for the run:
Att - 60-62 (24-31 IV)
Def - 53 or below for Mild guarantee, -Def nature can go as high as 55, otherwise anywhere as high as 62
SpAtt - 53 (29-31 IV)
SpDef - 42 or below for Rash guarantee, -SpDef nature can go as high as 46, otherwise anywhere as high as 52
Speed - 45-49 (this guarantees I dont have a -Speed nature by mistake and gives me a good IV range for Speed - 18-31)

This seems a bit awkward to explain, but you dont get to find out the nature until after 2 shadow bars are uncovered, so I have to guess. This range of stats gives me the best chance of guaranteeing to pull out a Mild or Rash Croconaw. The Def range is based on comparing 0 IV neutral with 31 IV -Def. The SpDef range is similarly figured out. The 'guarantee' comes for Def if the SpDef is above 46 (47-52), and the 'guarantee' for SpDef is if the Def is above 55 (56-62)

The HP range is 79-88, so anything above 85 would be considered perfect.

Toothache

2009-02-19 07:48:21 am

Let the music play!

Rash #159 Croconaw: 20 - 23 / 30 - 31 / 30 - 31 / 19 - 21 / 21 - 23 / 24 - 27

And with that capture, segment 3 is complete. The IV range may seem low for SpAtt, but thats higher than my test run capture. (test run at 49 SpAtt at capture, this one has 50, the max being 53) And just look at those stats! This thing is legendary. And yes, on top of everything else its female, so a big middle finger to Venus too!

Toothache

2009-02-20 05:28:57 am

Let the music play!

I decide to split segment 4 up into 3 parts - the first part being the Cail battle, the second part being the pyrite colosseum battles you have to take part in, and the third part being the Nore battle and the battle before the next save point.

Cail's battle is dangerous. His Shadow Furret can OHKO Espeon with Strength or Shadow Rush, and 2HKO Croconaw. I get through this battle in record time, mainly because of two crits that I lucked out on.

The four battles in Pyrite Colosseum are a bit time consuming. The reason I take a bit of time with them is to try and uncover as much of Croconaw's Shadow bar as possible, since I will need Surf in an upcoming battle and if I just left it I would waste more time. I manage to keep Hyper Mode at the end, to speed through the Shadow Yanma battle, since that can be very tricky to do fast.

The Shadow Yanma and subsequent battle I've yet to attempt, but in the test run the first battle was tricky. I want to manipulate Yanma into having Compoundeyes rather than Speed Boost, since that will waste time with the additional messages (and Espeon has a low chance of outspeeding Yanma without speed boost). The battle just after that is with Hoothoot and Taillow, neither of which are particularly threatening in themselves, but it will depend on how much damage I take in the Nore battle. I need to finish these two battles as fast as possible but with Surf unlocked, because the battle just after the save point is where Surf will be first used to optimise time. I will also need Surf in several places in the cave, so getting it earlier will be better. The Cipher Pyrite Hideout and caves area before Miror B will be the longest segment, with around 12 battles before the next save, so getting this right will be a pain for sure.

So yeah, I've added additional segments, but only to speed up the battles that would be otherwise combined into a slower overall segment.

I decide to split segment 4 up into 3 parts - the first part being the Cail battle, the second part being the pyrite colosseum battles you have to take part in, and the third part being the Nore battle and the battle before the next save point.

Cail's battle is dangerous. His Shadow Furret can OHKO Espeon with Strength or Shadow Rush, and 2HKO Croconaw. I get through this battle in record time, mainly because of two crits that I lucked out on.

The four battles in Pyrite Colosseum are a bit time consuming. The reason I take a bit of time with them is to try and uncover as much of Croconaw's Shadow bar as possible, since I will need Surf in an upcoming battle and if I just left it I would waste more time. I manage to keep Hyper Mode at the end, to speed through the Shadow Yanma battle, since that can be very tricky to do fast.

The Shadow Yanma and subsequent battle I've yet to attempt, but in the test run the first battle was tricky. I want to manipulate Yanma into having Compoundeyes rather than Speed Boost, since that will waste time with the additional messages (and Espeon has a low chance of outspeeding Yanma without speed boost). The battle just after that is with Hoothoot and Taillow, neither of which are particularly threatening in themselves, but it will depend on how much damage I take in the Nore battle. I need to finish these two battles as fast as possible but with Surf unlocked, because the battle just after the save point is where Surf will be first used to optimise time. I will also need Surf in several places in the cave, so getting it earlier will be better. The Cipher Pyrite Hideout and caves area before Miror B will be the longest segment, with around 12 battles before the next save, so getting this right will be a pain for sure.

So yeah, I've added additional segments, but only to speed up the battles that would be otherwise combined into a slower overall segment.

Thomaz

2009-02-20 08:00:17 am

Catchin' them all

I checked the stats myself before I watched this post and was pretty amazed. Good job Tooth. Cheesy

Very very nice catch.

Now catch that HP Electric 70 Timid Suicune!

>___>

Looking very good so far. Smiley

Beenman500

2009-02-20 08:22:27 am

Joke of all trades

why would you wan't a timid suicune, and good news onthe stats though, i'm in awe

Toothache

2009-02-20 08:36:04 am

Let the music play!

I should get back to resetting for HP Grass Raikou :-) But I digress.

Segment 3:
Segment 4:

Segment 5 will be up later, it's just over the noobtube limit (11:22) so I gotta split the video. I need a break now but I'll do it later.

Thomaz

2009-02-20 08:53:26 am

Catchin' them all

Was only saving that because there isn't any good Timid Elec Cune on Smogon. ;(

Beenman500

2009-02-20 09:09:34 am

Joke of all trades

which is why you probably wouldn't want it. oh well

Toothache

2009-02-21 08:20:42 am

Let the music play!

No, Timid Suicune with HP Electric is awesome, but they are so difficult to reset for. I was lucky enough to get any HP Electric cunes, but I do have a decent one myself.

Anyway, back to the run, segment 6 is finished. I miscalculated the Shadow Bar just ever so slightly, so I am a wee bit short of getting Surf by the start of segment 7. I remedy this by running around for long enough to uncover Surf, which I need in several fights during this part for the fastest time. This will also be likely the longest segment, and definitely one of the more frustrating ones to get right imo, with the amount of battles to contend with and things that can go wrong. I manage to use Torrent as early as battle 3 in this segment though, so already Croconaw's usefulness is displaying itself. The worst battle will be the Shadow Mantine snag, since the partners are all very fast and Mantine hurts Espeon a lot with Bubblebeam.

While it appears that Croconaw isnt getting any experience, that is partially not the case. Up until the second bar is uncovered, Croconaw does not gain any EVs or experience points, so purifying that far early was essential. After this point, Croconaw gains EVs and experience points, but they are not actually added until I can purify Croconaw. The amount of exp I gain after purifying is more than enough to push Croconaw into evolving to Feraligatr and as such will solo from that point on for most of the first half of the game (until the Master Ball is obtained).

No, Timid Suicune with HP Electric is awesome, but they are so difficult to reset for. I was lucky enough to get any HP Electric cunes, but I do have a decent one myself.

Anyway, back to the run, segment 6 is finished. I miscalculated the Shadow Bar just ever so slightly, so I am a wee bit short of getting Surf by the start of segment 7. I remedy this by running around for long enough to uncover Surf, which I need in several fights during this part for the fastest time. This will also be likely the longest segment, and definitely one of the more frustrating ones to get right imo, with the amount of battles to contend with and things that can go wrong. I manage to use Torrent as early as battle 3 in this segment though, so already Croconaw's usefulness is displaying itself. The worst battle will be the Shadow Mantine snag, since the partners are all very fast and Mantine hurts Espeon a lot with Bubblebeam.

While it appears that Croconaw isnt getting any experience, that is partially not the case. Up until the second bar is uncovered, Croconaw does not gain any EVs or experience points, so purifying that far early was essential. After this point, Croconaw gains EVs and experience points, but they are not actually added until I can purify Croconaw. The amount of exp I gain after purifying is more than enough to push Croconaw into evolving to Feraligatr and as such will solo from that point on for most of the first half of the game (until the Master Ball is obtained).

Toothache

2009-02-24 02:12:40 pm

Let the music play!

I've been very busy with this lately. Lotsa links for ya:

Segment 5 part A:
Segment 5 part B:
Segment 6:
Segment 7 part A:
Segment 7 part B:
Segment 7 part C:
Segment 7 part D:
Segment 8:

And if you just want a single link, I've appended all of these into a playlist if you prefer that sort of thing:

Segment 5 is the Pyrite Colosseum battles. They go without much of a problem, I get a lot of purifying done on Croconaw, which is needed to uncover Surf. Surf is a necessity for Segment 7.

Segment 6 is just the two battles in the start of the Pyrite Cipher Hideout, I think I get enough purifying for Surf here so I save. It turns out that I am just short, so I have to do a bit of running around at the start of Segment 7 for Surf to be uncovered.

Segment 7 is probably the longest segment in the run. There are 12 battles, 5 of which are snags, and no Master Ball. The two toughest battles are late on, and both are snag battles, which makes matters more complex. I pick up some necessary items in this part (3 Ethers, 3 Ultra Balls, 5 Hyper Potions). I do my best to optimise as much as I can, but most of the truly optimised battles involve a lot of luck, and there are too many battles here for them all to be perfected.

Segment 8 contains an optional battle, but just past this are 4 vitamins. The exp from that additional battles also gives Espeon an extra level, so it was worth the detour. Swablu snag looks sloppy but goes without a hitch. I save just before 1:30.

I'm not looking forward to Miror B, he was an absolute beast to beat at this point, and bear in mind I had an extra level on Espeon here too in my test run. Thankfully, Croconaw has much better defences here, so my chances of getting through this battle will all depend on whether I can a) manipulate Miror B into sending his Ludicolo in the order I need to beat him the safest, b) whether Espeon's low Defence stat will allow me to survive and c) if I can get a fast enough snag on Sudowoodo. Oh and I have to crit 4 times with Shadow Rush, but being in Hyper Mode gives me a monstrously high critical hit rate. The only downside is that I cant use items on Croconaw, so he has to do all that and not die from 4 Ludicolo all sporting Grass moves, one of the two types Croconaw is weak to. The order of battle is important since 2 of his Ludicolo have Swift Swim, and 2 have Rain Dish, and Croconaw cannot outspeed the Swift Swim versions in the rain (neither can Espeon for that matter).

There's also an additional luck factor at the end of segment 9. I want to visit the Berry Master and get some specific berries, they will allow me to safely get through certain battles later in the run, and make some marginally faster, even though visiting the Berry Master himself appears a bit of a time waste, it is quicker than suffering from Burn for example via Will-O-Wisp then having to heal it or take extra damage and waste time with the additional messages (plus the half attack). Avoiding status is always better, and imo will be marginally faster than not visiting the Berry Master and suffering the consequences of the status. Avoiding status is also the reason why I forced myself to reset for a female Croconaw.

I've been very busy with this lately. Lotsa links for ya:

Segment 5 part A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWdGgFk7TWM 
Segment 5 part B: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_xVgJ3vfNE
Segment 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Boe1QQpxTJc
Segment 7 part A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odh8NVIdXcg
Segment 7 part B: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm9pBr9uffM
Segment 7 part C: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9PHUy9u9bI
Segment 7 part D: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEQQfaa3_pg
Segment 8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r99H7GpGes8

And if you just want a single link, I've appended all of these into a playlist if you prefer that sort of thing:

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=D41067260A124859

Segment 5 is the Pyrite Colosseum battles. They go without much of a problem, I get a lot of purifying done on Croconaw, which is needed to uncover Surf. Surf is a necessity for Segment 7.

Segment 6 is just the two battles in the start of the Pyrite Cipher Hideout, I think I get enough purifying for Surf here so I save. It turns out that I am just short, so I have to do a bit of running around at the start of Segment 7 for Surf to be uncovered.

Segment 7 is probably the longest segment in the run. There are 12 battles, 5 of which are snags, and no Master Ball. The two toughest battles are late on, and both are snag battles, which makes matters more complex. I pick up some necessary items in this part (3 Ethers, 3 Ultra Balls, 5 Hyper Potions). I do my best to optimise as much as I can, but most of the truly optimised battles involve a lot of luck, and there are too many battles here for them all to be perfected.

Segment 8 contains an optional battle, but just past this are 4 vitamins. The exp from that additional battles also gives Espeon an extra level, so it was worth the detour. Swablu snag looks sloppy but goes without a hitch. I save just before 1:30.

I'm not looking forward to Miror B, he was an absolute beast to beat at this point, and bear in mind I had an extra level on Espeon here too in my test run. Thankfully, Croconaw has much better defences here, so my chances of getting through this battle will all depend on whether I can a) manipulate Miror B into sending his Ludicolo in the order I need to beat him the safest, b) whether Espeon's low Defence stat will allow me to survive and c) if I can get a fast enough snag on Sudowoodo. Oh and I have to crit 4 times with Shadow Rush, but being in Hyper Mode gives me a monstrously high critical hit rate. The only downside is that I cant use items on Croconaw, so he has to do all that and not die from 4 Ludicolo all sporting Grass moves, one of the two types Croconaw is weak to. The order of battle is important since 2 of his Ludicolo have Swift Swim, and 2 have Rain Dish, and Croconaw cannot outspeed the Swift Swim versions in the rain (neither can Espeon for that matter).

There's also an additional luck factor at the end of segment 9. I want to visit the Berry Master and get some specific berries, they will allow me to safely get through certain battles later in the run, and make some marginally faster, even though visiting the Berry Master himself appears a bit of a time waste, it is quicker than suffering from Burn for example via Will-O-Wisp then having to heal it or take extra damage and waste time with the additional messages (plus the half attack). Avoiding status is always better, and imo will be marginally faster than not visiting the Berry Master and suffering the consequences of the status. Avoiding status is also the reason why I forced myself to reset for a female Croconaw.

Beenman500

2009-02-24 04:00:51 pm

Joke of all trades

you should use some of the more powerful snaged pokemon like furet and quilfish, they pack a mighty punch and it doesn't matter if they die, they could also be useful as backup if espeon bites the dust, looking good so far though, and manipulating crit's with a 1 in 8 (hyper mode style) is gonna be prtty hard, use some x- items or something

Ascetic Swordsman

2009-02-24 04:57:21 pm

Quote from beenman500:

you should use some of the more powerful snaged pokemon like furet and quilfish, they pack a mighty punch and it doesn't matter if they die, they could also be useful as backup if espeon bites the dust, looking good so far though, and manipulating crit's with a 1 in 8 (hyper mode style) is gonna be prtty hard, use some x- items or something

Did you just call Quilfish and Furret poweful Pokemon? Shocked

Anyway, as long as there isn't a repeat of what happened with Umbreon I'm sure he'll be fine. Croconaw probably wouldn't be able to survive long enough to use an X-attack on it anyway. If the odds of a critical are 1 in 8 he'll have a 1 in 4096 chance of four critical hits. 1 in 4 is 1 in 256 for four. Not to mention Toothache did a test run so I'm sure he knows what he's doing. I only played through the game once so I could complete my pokedex. I still have to get Ho-oh.

Toothache

2009-02-24 05:24:47 pm

Let the music play!

Quote from beenman500:

you should use some of the more powerful snaged pokemon like furet and quilfish, they pack a mighty punch and it doesn't matter if they die, they could also be useful as backup if espeon bites the dust, looking good so far though, and manipulating crit's with a 1 in 8 (hyper mode style) is gonna be prtty hard, use some x- items or something

Yeah I see what you're saying but that wouldnt work for 2 reasons:
a) since you've freshly caught your other Shadow Pokemon, they are more likely to spend time entering and leaving Hyper Mode. And of course, using extra Pokemon is slower because of the extra animations (Espeon fainting, selecting your replacement, the replacement being sent out)
b) Croconaw and Espeon badly need the experience points, Croconaw especially. You'll see why soon.

Oh and Hyper Mode's critical hit ratio is a lot higher than 1/8, its more like 6/8. No joke. 75% crit with 100 base damage is pretty powerful but it isnt enough to KO a full health Ludicolo. And of course, since I can't use X-items while in Hyper Mode and I dont have time to try and activate during the Miror B battle.

Espeon's low Defence will actually work in my favour here, since I'm guessing the AI will be more inclined to use Astonish on Espeon rather than using a Grass attack on Croconaw. This gives me the advantage of beating his Swift Swim Ludicolo, since they will obviously try and use Astonish for the super effective damage and the flinch, I can use Helping Hand which goes first, SS Ludi will use Astonish, Croconaw will use HH crit Shadow Rush and KO. If Ludicolo goes for a water attack, Espeon survives much easier, and the AI will sometimes use Astonish on Croconaw to attempt a flinch and stop it attacking. The Rain Dish Ludicolo are obviously much easier since Croconaw is faster than them.

As long as I beat all four Ludicolo it doesnt matter if either Espeon or Croconaw (or both) faint here, but what does matter is a) getting a fast snag on Sudowoodo, and b) getting a necessary berry from the Berry Master at the end of the segment. Of course, having your main duo fainted costs time, but this is a difficult battle at best. I can't do the Berry Master at the start of the next segment otherwise it will waste too much time, I get it as the shortest possible juncture, which happens to be just before the save point, but is definitely worth the extra time to manipulate a berry.

[quote="beenman500"]
you should use some of the more powerful snaged pokemon like furet and quilfish, they pack a mighty punch and it doesn't matter if they die, they could also be useful as backup if espeon bites the dust, looking good so far though, and manipulating crit's with a 1 in 8 (hyper mode style) is gonna be prtty hard,  use some x- items or something
[/quote]

Yeah I see what you're saying but that wouldnt work for 2 reasons:
a) since you've freshly caught your other Shadow Pokemon, they are more likely to spend time entering and leaving Hyper Mode. And of course, using extra Pokemon is slower because of the extra animations (Espeon fainting, selecting your replacement, the replacement being sent out)
b) Croconaw and Espeon badly need the experience points, Croconaw especially. You'll see why soon.

Oh and Hyper Mode's critical hit ratio is a lot higher than 1/8, its more like 6/8. No joke. 75% crit with 100 base damage is pretty powerful but it isnt enough to KO a full health Ludicolo. And of course, since I can't use X-items while in Hyper Mode and I dont have time to try and activate during the Miror B battle.

Espeon's low Defence will actually work in my favour here, since I'm guessing the AI will be more inclined to use Astonish on Espeon rather than using a Grass attack on Croconaw. This gives me the advantage of beating his Swift Swim Ludicolo, since they will obviously try and use Astonish for the super effective damage and the flinch, I can use Helping Hand which goes first, SS Ludi will use Astonish, Croconaw will use HH crit Shadow Rush and KO. If Ludicolo goes for a water attack, Espeon survives much easier, and the AI will sometimes use Astonish on Croconaw to attempt a flinch and stop it attacking. The Rain Dish Ludicolo are obviously much easier since Croconaw is faster than them.

As long as I beat all four Ludicolo it doesnt matter if either Espeon or Croconaw (or both) faint here, but what does matter is a) getting a fast snag on Sudowoodo, and b) getting a necessary berry from the Berry Master at the end of the segment. Of course, having your main duo fainted costs time, but this is a difficult battle at best. I can't do the Berry Master at the start of the next segment otherwise it will waste too much time, I get it as the shortest possible juncture, which happens to be just before the save point, but is definitely worth the extra time to manipulate a berry.