Planescape: Torment -- AGAIN!

2006-11-14 03:40:01 pm

pierdole zdejmuje kominiare

The +2 club is on the way and is essential to kill Kesai-Serris and Ravel. I discovered it by complete accident - but it saved my life. I never knew about The Justifier, what's funny is that I don't think it was ever mentioned anywhere how to get it. BTW you can 'talk' with it, and apparently TNO's previous incarnation had it as a weapon :).

To get it I steal a recipe (?) from Nadillin and then talk to him, say that I want to retrieve something and say that I do in fact have the recipe. He gives the club, after that I kill him and loot the Portal. Tough luck.

Scorpio

2006-11-15 08:41:16 am

Watcher

Hmm, I see the run is live'n'kickin. It is good to see, that this run was not put on the shelf after hard begining, but is still in motion.
I watch every post, and wait for any news.

And ... man paly that game, and play and wonder how it is possible to do a run ... and than just see how much of game is for story and side-quest purpose. Still ... I couldn't just play that way.

Good luck, and powodzenia once more

niebezimienny

2006-11-18 08:38:18 pm

pierdole zdejmuje kominiare

Ok I will redo the run from scratch and I figured out why not to use the english version then! But there's a problem - I can't get it in Poland and I'm not exactly keen on trying to buy it on some auction and get it 2 months later, so if anyone knows any *cough* directions *cough* please PM me.

Raven75

2006-11-19 10:38:28 am

It's-a me, Raven!

If I had the bandwidth, I might have been inclined to upload it, but it's a friggin whippin full four disks, and my ISP has traffic limits...
Tried sites like amazon or ebay yet?

niebezimienny

2006-11-23 03:37:16 pm

pierdole zdejmuje kominiare

Done testing (english version)!

I will start recording tomorrow. The worst parts are definitely Curst Prison and Fortress of Regrets because of the "Masses of enemies + idiotic pathing system + luck VERSUS player". Oh and in CP I gotta maneuver two characters at the same time. But overall it's a pretty easy game to speedrun since so little fighting and luck is needed. Stay tuned!

Scorpio

2006-11-28 03:58:00 pm

Watcher

Five days ... including weekend. So, what about this run. Any news will do. Just to know, that run after switching to english version is still "on the work".

niebezimienny

Edit history:

niebezimienny: 2006-12-15 07:13:29 pm

2006-12-15 06:59:58 pm

pierdole zdejmuje kominiare

Done, final time 47:05, that's the time I got by adding the video files' lengths, so without loading times/menu if would be somewhere around 45 minutes. There is 13 segments. I didn't abuse death to port around, the only time I died was when I was going back to the mortuary, and it is a dialogue option.

Now I need to convert it to some normal size, since the files take 21 GB now... I'd like to ask anyone who has already submitted and encoded (?) a run to give me a hand since I don't seem to get anything...prolly via PM or email:

der.piotrek -at- gmail -dot- com

agopo

2006-12-15 07:10:56 pm

I wear glasses.

Quote:

Done, final time 47:05, that's the time I got by adding the video files' lengths, so without loading times/menu if would be somewhere around 45 minutes. There is 13 segments.

Wow, I expected this long-awaited run to vanish in the middle of internet nowhere just like many have done before. But no, you did it niebezimienny! Awesome.. can't wait to watch it (once someone was found to edit/ encode/ publish).

niebezimienny

Edit history:

niebezimienny: 2006-12-16 06:03:28 pm

2006-12-16 11:58:25 am

pierdole zdejmuje kominiare

I have encoded the run. I combined it into one piece so there will be no need to download a lot of segments. Hopefully I did everything right.

Big thanks to groobo since he helped me out with this!

edit: My uploading speed is crap...or maybe its just filefront...but most probably it's both. I will try to post the LQ MQ and HQ versions on filefront so I can send an email to Mike, but damn, it's so slow!

Mr Positive

2006-12-18 10:34:06 am

Awesome, congratulations on finishing the run!
ive played this game quite alot, with several approaches, but unfortunately i never got past the baator part ("ugh, actually forced to fight against things? Whats this, D2?") so i cant verify. Good luck with the release! Seeing that there are quite alot runs in the queue i hope you manage to upload it somewhere else, im looking forward to see it very much (still in 2006 i hope ;-) )!

Adahn

2006-12-19 01:07:56 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Congrats!

What are the rules for verifying? I've only ever made posts in relation to torment runs, and not that many at that, but I'd be happy to if you need someone and i qualify...

laughing_gas

2006-12-19 01:10:53 pm

Existence as you know it is over

You send a PM to mikwuyma and if accepted he tells you the guidelines.

niebezimienny

Edit history:

niebezimienny: 2006-12-19 06:31:13 pm

2006-12-19 01:17:24 pm

pierdole zdejmuje kominiare

Yup, thanks Adahn! Glad to see there are some people who wanna verify. Means the run shouldn't be stuck on the verification list for ages Smiley

BTW I'm starting a new test run to improve the time. This time, as previously suggested, with a thief AND death abuse. I must say that being a thief gives some neat possibilities and WIS and INT are useless except for the incranations, but even then 4 kessegs = +12 int, so with a basic int of 9, that gives 21 which is just the amount you need to merge with practical.

Where should I get Dirty Rat charms, not going out of the route?

edit: Also, Adahn... can you tell me some things you have established while using a thief? I know you have done some research on that some time ago and maybe you came up with something I didn't.

My stats for character creation in the thief run are: 18 CHA and 18/90 STR (Well basically all what's left after having 18 CHA I put in STR since I don't need anything else).

Oh and one more thing: In which places dying would speed things up... the only place that saves time when you die that I found is dying at the beginning of Trash Warrens and you wake up at Martha's house. Are there more places like that?

Yup, thanks Adahn! Glad to see there are some people who wanna verify. Means the run shouldn't be stuck on the verification list for ages :)

BTW I'm starting a new test run to improve the time. This time, as previously suggested, with a thief AND death abuse. I must say that being a thief gives some neat possibilities and WIS and INT are useless except for the incranations, but even then 4 kessegs = +12 int, so with a basic int of 9, that gives 21 which is just the amount you need to merge with practical.

Where should I get Dirty Rat charms, not going out of the route?

edit: Also, Adahn... can you tell me some things you have established while using a thief? I know you have done some research on that some time ago and maybe you came up with something I didn't.

My stats for character creation in the thief run are: 18 CHA and 18/90 STR (Well basically all what's left after having 18 CHA I put in STR since I don't need anything else).

Oh and one more thing: In which places dying would speed things up... the only place that saves time when you die that I found is dying at the beginning of Trash Warrens and you wake up at Martha's house. Are there more places like that?

Adahn

2006-12-20 12:06:32 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I think you buy dirty rat charms from mebbeth. If you want to be tricky you can send morte towards mebbeth while you talk to ratbone to become a thief to save you a bit of a walk... I think there might be a drc in carceri but getting it requires leaving the shadows which isn't convenient.

I know you need 16cha in the dead nations, I can't remember what you need 18 for, its been a while.

Important points about the thief that I believe differ from your strategies:
1. other characters are only useful for saving you a walk... I think I dropped morte some time before getting annah, for the rest of the game i use just annah. Since she can hide in the shadows she can be useful. Morte's only use later in the game would be using litany of curses on trias, but with a small amount of luck you can kill trias singlehandedly with only 1 dirty rat charm
2. Ravel is the only tricky part: the theif strategy just involves hiding in the shadows (either beforehand or using a drc) then backstabbing, but ravel is quite hard to kill like this. She is difficult to hit and at this stage of the game you don't do much damage. If you have someone else in your party, the experience won't be enough to get you high enough levels for x5 backstabs, so possibly dropping annah before you face ravel is a good idea. If you're very quick you can hide in the shadows between ending the conversation and fighting her. I'd budget 2 drc's for beating her, and several retries. that leaves 1 drc for trias, and probably none for ignus, which could be annoying because its hard to kill ignus in one hit.
3. Death warps:
- the one you mentioned
- I find that the best strategy for getting to ravel's maze is to kill kessai first, then let the gaurds that come in kill me, death warping me back to the lower ward. Then go get the portal.
- in the fortress of regrets... when soloing I couldn't manage to activate all the machines without being surrounded and killed. As it was i needed to use various healing items. The fortress of regrets was a bit of a stumbling block for me.
- I possibly died in curst prison as well, for similar reasons. In some places dying and not dying take around the same amount of time.
4. you can use thief skills in curst prison

I don't know how many segments you used... with a thief the luck you need requires saving some time before ravel, saving just before trias, and probably just before ignus, at the very least... you don't need to seriously abuse luck, but lets just say my strategy wouldn't really work for a single segment run

If I watch your other run I might remember something else.

I think you buy dirty rat charms from mebbeth. If you want to be tricky you can send morte towards mebbeth while you talk to ratbone to become a thief to save you a bit of a walk... I think there might be a drc in carceri but getting it requires leaving the shadows which isn't convenient.

I know you need 16cha in the dead nations, I can't remember what you need 18 for, its been a while.

Important points about the thief that I believe differ from your strategies:
1. other characters are only useful for saving you a walk... I think I dropped morte some time before getting annah, for the rest of the game i use just annah. Since she can hide in the shadows she can be useful. Morte's only use later in the game would be using litany of curses on trias, but with a small amount of luck you can kill trias singlehandedly with only 1 dirty rat charm
2. Ravel is the only tricky part: the theif strategy just involves hiding in the shadows (either beforehand or using a drc) then backstabbing, but ravel is quite hard to kill like this. She is difficult to hit and at this stage of the game you don't do much damage. If you have someone else in your party, the experience won't be enough to get you high enough levels for x5 backstabs, so possibly dropping annah before you face ravel is a good idea. If you're very quick you can hide in the shadows between ending the conversation and fighting her. I'd budget 2 drc's for beating her, and several retries. that leaves 1 drc for trias, and probably none for ignus, which could be annoying because its hard to kill ignus in one hit. 
3. Death warps: 
- the one you mentioned
- I find that the best strategy for getting to ravel's maze is to kill kessai first, then let the gaurds that come in kill me, death warping me back to the lower ward. Then go get the portal.
- in the fortress of regrets... when soloing I couldn't manage to activate all the machines without being surrounded and killed. As it was i needed to use various healing items. The fortress of regrets was a bit of a stumbling block for me.
- I possibly died in curst prison as well, for similar reasons. In some places dying and not dying take around the same amount of time.
4. you can use thief skills in curst prison

I don't know how many segments you used... with a thief the luck you need requires saving some time before ravel, saving just before trias, and probably just before ignus, at the very least... you don't need to seriously abuse luck, but lets just say my strategy wouldn't really work for a single segment run

If I watch your other run I might remember something else.

niebezimienny

Edit history:

niebezimienny: 2006-12-20 02:03:52 pm

2006-12-20 11:56:43 am

pierdole zdejmuje kominiare

Quote:

I think you buy dirty rat charms from mebbeth. If you want to be tricky you can send morte towards mebbeth while you talk to ratbone to become a thief to save you a bit of a walk... I think there might be a drc in carceri but getting it requires leaving the shadows which isn't convenient.

I know you need 16cha in the dead nations, I can't remember what you need 18 for, its been a while.

Important points about the thief that I believe differ from your strategies:
1. other characters are only useful for saving you a walk... I think I dropped morte some time before getting annah, for the rest of the game i use just annah. Since she can hide in the shadows she can be useful. Morte's only use later in the game would be using litany of curses on trias, but with a small amount of luck you can kill trias singlehandedly with only 1 dirty rat charm
2. Ravel is the only tricky part: the theif strategy just involves hiding in the shadows (either beforehand or using a drc) then backstabbing, but ravel is quite hard to kill like this. She is difficult to hit and at this stage of the game you don't do much damage. If you have someone else in your party, the experience won't be enough to get you high enough levels for x5 backstabs, so possibly dropping annah before you face ravel is a good idea. If you're very quick you can hide in the shadows between ending the conversation and fighting her. I'd budget 2 drc's for beating her, and several retries. that leaves 1 drc for trias, and probably none for ignus, which could be annoying because its hard to kill ignus in one hit.
3. Death warps:
- the one you mentioned
- I find that the best strategy for getting to ravel's maze is to kill kessai first, then let the gaurds that come in kill me, death warping me back to the lower ward. Then go get the portal.
- in the fortress of regrets... when soloing I couldn't manage to activate all the machines without being surrounded and killed. As it was i needed to use various healing items. The fortress of regrets was a bit of a stumbling block for me.
- I possibly died in curst prison as well, for similar reasons. In some places dying and not dying take around the same amount of time.
4. you can use thief skills in curst prison

I don't know how many segments you used... with a thief the luck you need requires saving some time before ravel, saving just before trias, and probably just before ignus, at the very least... you don't need to seriously abuse luck, but lets just say my strategy wouldn't really work for a single segment run

If I watch your other run I might remember something else.

Here's my comments on what you said (and general route):

In my test run I didn't use any Dirty Rat Charms so with them it's much faster it would seem. I even managed to kill Ravel without backstabbing her, just hitting her with TNO and Morte, while she was Litany of Curses'd. I also used Morte to tank the Trigits, since he's hard to hit, has good HP and is very resistant to damage. A backstab is possible tho if you hide in shadows in the pause after you talk to her.

The 18 CHA is needed to lie to the pillar about Fjuhll's location. I get the fiendish eye from Ravel (+2CHA) and then add points so I have 24 CHA for the ending, so I can go for the CHA ending.

1. As for other characters, here's my plan and I believe it's the fastest:

-Skip Dak'kon
-Pick up Annah, leave her just before entering the Alley for the first time
-After destroying the buildings in the alley, pick her up again.
-Before talking to the alley, leave Morte and port to lower ward.
-Talk to Korur, have him train you as a warrior, get 3 proficiency points in fists, talk to Annah, switch to thief, dump her.
-Go back to the Alley, grab Morte, back to Lower Ward.
-I pick up Vhailor since he's on the way and actually helps at the Deva fight a bit.

2. As I said, I was able to kill her without any backstabs, just attacking her, but if you hide in shadows right after she's done talking, you remain stealthed for a while, Morte can taunt her, TNO backstabs, eats a DRC, backstabs again and she's dead. I pick up her Fiendish Eye and three heart charms.

3. My route for the lower ward is to train at Korurs as I already mentioned, Giltspur, Penn, back to Giltspur, Foundry, kill Nadilin, pick up the Portal, leave the foundry, run to Lenny's place (just near the Clerks ward entrance hes on the way), one-hit backstab him (with enchanted punch daggers that are on the way in drowned nations, along with charms of infinite recall), loot his daggers (+2, needed to hit Kesai), go to the brothel, one hit backstab her, loot the hanky and port. One thing I need to test is if it's possible to pickpocket Giltspur for that papers that allow you to enter the foundry, that would skip Penn, but I doubt it.

4. As for Fortress of Regrets, you can stealth at the beginning, then touch the first pad, port (you get unstealthed) run past the shadow (he hits you almost every time, he stands on the stairway, so it's nearly impossible to avoid him), run to the 2nd machine, you get ported and unstealthed, run down avoding the shadows, restealth on the way, touch the next machine, run up, restealthing, touch the final one, you get ported to the safe place where the 3rd one was, stealth there and run to the portal. I got hit a bit but I had a lot of healing items and I even ended up not using them all.

As for Curst Prison, there are Trelons at the entrance, and if TNO dies, the party (TNO and Morte) gets ported above them, but still they manage to see Morte. I find it easier to just kill them with the Ring of the Fallen Stars and let Morte stand at the exit, then use him to exit once the sword is gotten. Running from the entrance to the deva is faster than from Cassius to the deva. After giving him the sword, I also believe it's faster to exit and run from the beginning to the door.

I get 50 pickpocket so I can steal the bandage from Cassius. I didn't test if you can steal the fingerbone key from the guard tho (edit: I just tested it, you CAN. If I'm fast enough I'm able to steal it, which puts you out of stealth, then restealth before the guards turn hostile). ~~They are of course neutral and become hostile only if they see you, which is nice. If not, no problem, I can one-hit backstab that guard.~~

Also in the Mortuary, I found out that killing Soego and grabbing his key is slightly faster than letting him open the gate, because he walks really slow. TNO, with 18/90 STR hits for around 6 with his fists so it ain't bad.

What method do you get the 50 copper needed to train at Ratbone? I figured out that there are 2 locked containers in the Mortuary 2nd floor, both have 30 copper. I can send Morte to go up and collect one of those conainers, TNO to go down and collect trash, the other container, prybar, hammer and exit the area. I hate controlling two characters at the same time, I suck at it. Also, how to get the DRC's from Mebbeth? I mean, they cost 50 copper and I don't have anything after paying Ratbone, and as a level 1 thief with 9 DEX, my pickpocket is as -3% (yes, negative) or something, lol.

One thing that's funny is that I'm too dumb to ask Fhjull how to get back from Baator, so I gotta ask the Pillar. I choose -15hp, but since the punch daggers I get in the Carceri Administration give +15 hp it's not important.

I once managed to get a drc from Nadilin (possibly Kesai and Lenny), so I might as well manipulate luck here again. The bad thing is that it requires the game to be completely reset apparently, since after getting a clot charm 10 times in a row, I gave up.

Also, random people often drop drc's (that would require some luck manipulation as well though). I think this might be the fastest method...

About bossfights:
Ravel - stealth, backstab, drc, backstab
Trias - ~~stealth, backstab, drc, backstab, drc, backstab, while Vhailor is pounding on him.~~ edit: DRCs are useless here. Even if I get three from Mebbeth, use one on Ravel and the two here, the difference in time will be minimal. He takes around 6-7 backstabs (shitload of hp), and you can make those simply by backing off a few steps and restealthing. I doubt that using two drcs would save even 5 seconds here, given there is delay between attacks, and getting them would be hard. The only fight which will need a drc will be Ravel, and that drc I can get by killing a random person on the way. Preferably a collector at Ragpickers' Square, Morte will kill him while TNO is making his way up.
Ignus - I will manipulate luck here for a crit backstab.

As for segmenting:

1st save: After exiting the Mortuary. Because I don't like controlling two chars at the same time, so if I manage to do it quickly, I don't want to screw up later.
2nd: Dead Nations, after Soego (yes he's back alive, when asked: "Didn't I kill you back at the Mortuary (sic)?" he says that it was just a scratch and he recovered, yeah right, wererat.
3rd: Just after entering the alley.
4th: Lower Ward, with Morte, after learning from Korur, without Annah.
5th: Before killing Lenny
6th: Before killing Kesai
7th: In front of Ravel.
8th: After entering Curst Underground.
9th: Before backstabbing the guard who has the fingerbone.
10th: Fhjull's "house".
11th: Entering Carceri.
12th: Before Trais, after picking up and equipping the uber daggers.
13th: Just before entering the Fortress.
14th: Before Ignus in order to get a crit backstab on him.

BTW, Adahn, do you have some sort of messenger ? ;p

[quote]I think you buy dirty rat charms from mebbeth. If you want to be tricky you can send morte towards mebbeth while you talk to ratbone to become a thief to save you a bit of a walk... I think there might be a drc in carceri but getting it requires leaving the shadows which isn't convenient.

I know you need 16cha in the dead nations, I can't remember what you need 18 for, its been a while.

Important points about the thief that I believe differ from your strategies:
1. other characters are only useful for saving you a walk... I think I dropped morte some time before getting annah, for the rest of the game i use just annah. Since she can hide in the shadows she can be useful. Morte's only use later in the game would be using litany of curses on trias, but with a small amount of luck you can kill trias singlehandedly with only 1 dirty rat charm
2. Ravel is the only tricky part: the theif strategy just involves hiding in the shadows (either beforehand or using a drc) then backstabbing, but ravel is quite hard to kill like this. She is difficult to hit and at this stage of the game you don't do much damage. If you have someone else in your party, the experience won't be enough to get you high enough levels for x5 backstabs, so possibly dropping annah before you face ravel is a good idea. If you're very quick you can hide in the shadows between ending the conversation and fighting her. I'd budget 2 drc's for beating her, and several retries. that leaves 1 drc for trias, and probably none for ignus, which could be annoying because its hard to kill ignus in one hit. 
3. Death warps: 
- the one you mentioned
- I find that the best strategy for getting to ravel's maze is to kill kessai first, then let the gaurds that come in kill me, death warping me back to the lower ward. Then go get the portal.
- in the fortress of regrets... when soloing I couldn't manage to activate all the machines without being surrounded and killed. As it was i needed to use various healing items. The fortress of regrets was a bit of a stumbling block for me.
- I possibly died in curst prison as well, for similar reasons. In some places dying and not dying take around the same amount of time.
4. you can use thief skills in curst prison

I don't know how many segments you used... with a thief the luck you need requires saving some time before ravel, saving just before trias, and probably just before ignus, at the very least... you don't need to seriously abuse luck, but lets just say my strategy wouldn't really work for a single segment run

If I watch your other run I might remember something else.
[/quote]

Here's my comments on what you said (and general route):

In my test run I didn't use any Dirty Rat Charms so with them it's much faster it would seem. I even managed to kill Ravel without backstabbing her, just hitting her with TNO and Morte, while she was Litany of Curses'd. I also used Morte to tank the Trigits, since he's hard to hit, has good HP and is very resistant to damage. A backstab is possible tho if you hide in shadows in the pause after you talk to her.

The 18 CHA is needed to lie to the pillar about Fjuhll's location. I get the fiendish eye from Ravel (+2CHA) and then add points so I have 24 CHA for the ending, so I can go for the CHA ending.

1. As for other characters, here's my plan and I believe it's the fastest:

-Skip Dak'kon
-Pick up Annah, leave her just before entering the Alley for the first time
-After destroying the buildings in the alley, pick her up again.
-Before talking to the alley, leave Morte and port to lower ward.
-Talk to Korur, have him train you as a warrior, get 3 proficiency points in fists, talk to Annah, switch to thief, dump her.
-Go back to the Alley, grab Morte, back to Lower Ward.
-I pick up Vhailor since he's on the way and actually helps at the Deva fight a bit.

2. As I said, I was able to kill her without any backstabs, just attacking her, but if you hide in shadows right after she's done talking, you remain stealthed for a while, Morte can taunt her, TNO backstabs, eats a DRC, backstabs again and she's dead. I pick up her Fiendish Eye and three heart charms.

3. My route for the lower ward is to train at Korurs as I already mentioned, Giltspur, Penn, back to Giltspur, Foundry, kill Nadilin, pick up the Portal, leave the foundry, run to Lenny's place (just near the Clerks ward entrance hes on the way), one-hit backstab him (with enchanted punch daggers that are on the way in drowned nations, along with charms of infinite recall), loot his daggers (+2, needed to hit Kesai), go to the brothel, one hit backstab her, loot the hanky and port. One thing I need to test is if it's possible to pickpocket Giltspur for that papers that allow you to enter the foundry, that would skip Penn, but I doubt it.

4. As for Fortress of Regrets, you can stealth at the beginning, then touch the first pad, port (you get unstealthed) run past the shadow (he hits you almost every time, he stands on the stairway, so it's nearly impossible to avoid him), run to the 2nd machine, you get ported and unstealthed, run down avoding the shadows, restealth on the way, touch the next machine, run up, restealthing, touch the final one, you get ported to the safe place where the 3rd one was, stealth there and run to the portal. I got hit a bit but I had a lot of healing items and I even ended up not using them all.

As for Curst Prison, there are Trelons at the entrance, and if TNO dies, the party (TNO and Morte) gets ported above them, but still they manage to see Morte. I find it easier to just kill them with the Ring of the Fallen Stars and let Morte stand at the exit, then use him to exit once the sword is gotten. Running from the entrance to the deva is faster than from Cassius to the deva. After giving him the sword, I also believe it's faster to exit and run from the beginning to the door.

I get 50 pickpocket so I can steal the bandage from Cassius. I didn't test if you can steal the fingerbone key from the guard tho [b](edit: I just tested it, you CAN. If I'm fast enough I'm able to steal it, which puts you out of stealth, then restealth before the guards turn hostile).[/b] [s]They are of course neutral and become hostile only if they see you, which is nice. If not, no problem, I can one-hit backstab that guard.[/s]

Also in the Mortuary, I found out that killing Soego and grabbing his key is slightly faster than letting him open the gate, because he walks really slow. TNO, with 18/90 STR hits for around 6 with his fists so it ain't bad.

What method do you get the 50 copper needed to train at Ratbone? I figured out that there are 2 locked containers in the Mortuary 2nd floor, both have 30 copper. I can send Morte to go up and collect one of those conainers, TNO to go down and collect trash, the other container, prybar, hammer and exit the area. I hate controlling two characters at the same time, I suck at it. Also, how to get the DRC's from Mebbeth? I mean, they cost 50 copper and I don't have anything after paying Ratbone, and as a level 1 thief with 9 DEX, my pickpocket is as -3% (yes, negative) or something, lol.

One thing that's funny is that I'm too dumb to ask Fhjull how to get back from Baator, so I gotta ask the Pillar. I choose -15hp, but since the punch daggers I get in the Carceri Administration give +15 hp it's not important.

I once managed to get a drc from Nadilin (possibly Kesai and Lenny), so I might as well manipulate luck here again. The bad thing is that it requires the game to be completely reset apparently, since after getting a clot charm 10 times in a row, I gave up.

Also, random people often drop drc's (that would require some luck manipulation as well though). I think this might be the fastest method...

About bossfights: 
Ravel - stealth, backstab, drc, backstab
Trias - [s]stealth, backstab, drc, backstab, drc, backstab, while Vhailor is pounding on him.[/s] edit: [b]DRCs are useless here. Even if I get three from Mebbeth, use one on Ravel and the two here, the difference in time will be minimal. He takes around 6-7 backstabs (shitload of hp), and you can make those simply by backing off a few steps and restealthing. I doubt that using two drcs would save even 5 seconds here, given there is delay between attacks, and getting them would be hard. The only fight which will need a drc will be Ravel, and that drc I can get by killing a random person on the way. Preferably a collector at Ragpickers' Square, Morte will kill him while TNO is making his way up.[/b]
Ignus - I will manipulate luck here for a crit backstab.

As for segmenting:

1st save: After exiting the Mortuary. Because I don't like controlling two chars at the same time, so if I manage to do it quickly, I don't want to screw up later.
2nd: Dead Nations, after Soego (yes he's back alive, when asked: "Didn't I kill you back at the Mortuary (sic)?" he says that it was just a scratch and he recovered, yeah right, wererat.
3rd: Just after entering the alley.
4th: Lower Ward, with Morte, after learning from Korur, without Annah.
5th: Before killing Lenny
6th: Before killing Kesai
7th: In front of Ravel.
8th: After entering Curst Underground.
9th: Before backstabbing the guard who has the fingerbone.
10th: Fhjull's "house".
11th: Entering Carceri.
12th: Before Trais, after picking up and equipping the uber daggers.
13th: Just before entering the Fortress.
14th: Before Ignus in order to get a crit backstab on him.

BTW, Adahn, do you have some sort of messenger ? ;p

Adahn

2006-12-21 01:20:59 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

ah, I knew there was a reason for cha. good going.

about the money... i think there is enough on the top floor of the mortuary... getting the junk, hammer, prybar etc from there meant i had to visit both the top room and the bottom room... I think between them they have the necessary cash (although I used to take the portal exit from the mortuary because I hadn't thought of killing soego (good idea!) and because some kind of bug on my machine made the game lag while he walked, making his walk even more unbelievably slow).

While picking up the stuff on the 3rd floor, you can get enough valuable items that you can sell to mebbeth to pay for drcs.

I once time controlling both characters on the top floor, and even using hotkeys to make it easier to switch between with them, it came out slower than just one character, so I don't think its worth trying to control both. About the only place where I can save time is sending morte towards mebbeth while TNO talks to ratbone.

Luck manipulation to get an extra drc could be really time consuming... if you could beat ravel with one that would be perfect. For some reason i've also had a lot of trouble getting a crit backstab on ignus... he has some spell he casts that halves the damage he takes or something, and i've once killed in him in 1 hit, then never again. having a drc would solve the problem though.

It sounds like you're definitely on the right track, except i'm surprised about your trias comments. iirc, he has about 230hp if you don't do any good deeds. thats only 2 crit backstabs. If you're quick you can backstab, drc, backstab before he's even summoned his minions and thats that. I think I managed to do that with a good success rate.... maybe 1/3. So you might want to experiment some more there. Like I said, in my testing i've found ravel to be the only challenging fight, trias goes down amazingly quick.

Sounds like you're having a lot more success in fortress of regrets than i did.

I dunno bout the korur thing - i'm not sure what effect the proficiency has, or even it still works once you're a thief. You certainly don't need it after ravel, and hopefully not to kill her either, so i think it could be costing precious time.

for the lower ward/clerks ward I think my strategy was glitspur - lenny - penn - clerks ward - kill kessai - die (death warp to lower ward) - glitspur - foundry - portal - ravel. This saves walking from penn back to glitspur, saves walking back out of the foundry (a long walk), and doesn't cost much extra time. I think you should time it, because i'm fairly sure its faster. also, you can send a character on ahead to penn's while dealing with lenny.

A few other random things you may or may not have picked up:
- you can bash the gate in the buried village to go through into the catacombs, which is faster.
- you don't need to kill any trigits if you solo ravel... it is usually possible to dodge/lose the trigits and reenter the shadows before getting to ravel... of course you will leave the shadows when you talk to her, but i have managed to kill her without killing any trigits.
- I found the first floor of trias' building to be a bit annoying... from memory if you have two characters, preferably Annah and TNO using stealth, you can get one of them up the stairs without killing any enemies, but its tricky.

I'm not currently on any form of messenger, which are you on?

ah, I knew there was a reason for cha. good going.

about the money... i think there is enough on the top floor of the mortuary... getting the junk, hammer, prybar etc from there meant i had to visit both the top room and the bottom room... I think between them they have the necessary cash (although I used to take the portal exit from the mortuary because I hadn't thought of killing soego (good idea!) and because some kind of bug on my machine made the game lag while he walked, making his walk even more unbelievably slow).

While picking up the stuff on the 3rd floor, you can get enough valuable items that you can sell to mebbeth to pay for drcs.

I once time controlling both characters on the top floor, and even using hotkeys to make it easier to switch between with them, it came out slower than just one character, so I don't think its worth trying to control both. About the only place where I can save time is sending morte towards mebbeth while TNO talks to ratbone.

Luck manipulation to get an extra drc could be really time consuming... if you could beat ravel with one that would be perfect. For some reason i've also had a lot of trouble getting a crit backstab on ignus... he has some spell he casts that halves the damage he takes or something, and i've once killed in him in 1 hit, then never again. having a drc would solve the problem though.

It sounds like you're definitely on the right track, except i'm surprised about your trias comments. iirc, he has about 230hp if you don't do any good deeds. thats only 2 crit backstabs. If you're quick you can backstab, drc, backstab before he's even summoned his minions and thats that. I think I managed to do that with a good success rate.... maybe 1/3. So you might want to experiment some more there. Like I said, in my testing i've found ravel to be the only challenging fight, trias goes down amazingly quick.

Sounds like you're having a lot more success in fortress of regrets than i did.

I dunno bout the korur thing - i'm not sure what effect the proficiency has, or even it still works once you're a thief. You certainly don't need it after ravel, and hopefully not to kill her either, so i think it could be costing precious time.

for the lower ward/clerks ward I think my strategy was glitspur - lenny - penn - clerks ward - kill kessai - die (death warp to lower ward) - glitspur - foundry - portal - ravel. This saves walking from penn back to glitspur, saves walking back out of the foundry (a long walk), and doesn't cost much extra time. I think you should time it, because i'm fairly sure its faster. also, you can send a character on ahead to penn's while dealing with lenny.

A few other random things you may or may not have picked up:
- you can bash the gate in the buried village to go through into the catacombs, which is faster. 
- you don't need to kill any trigits if you solo ravel... it is usually possible to dodge/lose the trigits and reenter the shadows before getting to ravel... of course you will leave the shadows when you talk to her, but i have managed to kill her without killing any trigits.
- I found the first floor of trias' building to be a bit annoying... from memory if you have two characters, preferably Annah and TNO using stealth, you can get one of them up the stairs without killing any enemies, but its tricky.

I'm not currently on any form of messenger, which are you on?

niebezimienny

Edit history:

niebezimienny: 2006-12-21 11:04:49 am

2006-12-21 10:50:14 am

pierdole zdejmuje kominiare

Quote:

ah, I knew there was a reason for cha. good going.

about the money... i think there is enough on the top floor of the mortuary... getting the junk, hammer, prybar etc from there meant i had to visit both the top room and the bottom room... I think between them they have the necessary cash (although I used to take the portal exit from the mortuary because I hadn't thought of killing soego (good idea!) and because some kind of bug on my machine made the game lag while he walked, making his walk even more unbelievably slow).

While picking up the stuff on the 3rd floor, you can get enough valuable items that you can sell to mebbeth to pay for drcs.

I once time controlling both characters on the top floor, and even using hotkeys to make it easier to switch between with them, it came out slower than just one character, so I don't think its worth trying to control both. About the only place where I can save time is sending morte towards mebbeth while TNO talks to ratbone.

Luck manipulation to get an extra drc could be really time consuming... if you could beat ravel with one that would be perfect. For some reason i've also had a lot of trouble getting a crit backstab on ignus... he has some spell he casts that halves the damage he takes or something, and i've once killed in him in 1 hit, then never again. having a drc would solve the problem though.

It sounds like you're definitely on the right track, except i'm surprised about your trias comments. iirc, he has about 230hp if you don't do any good deeds. thats only 2 crit backstabs. If you're quick you can backstab, drc, backstab before he's even summoned his minions and thats that. I think I managed to do that with a good success rate.... maybe 1/3. So you might want to experiment some more there. Like I said, in my testing i've found ravel to be the only challenging fight, trias goes down amazingly quick.

Sounds like you're having a lot more success in fortress of regrets than i did.

I dunno bout the korur thing - i'm not sure what effect the proficiency has, or even it still works once you're a thief. You certainly don't need it after ravel, and hopefully not to kill her either, so i think it could be costing precious time.

for the lower ward/clerks ward I think my strategy was glitspur - lenny - penn - clerks ward - kill kessai - die (death warp to lower ward) - glitspur - foundry - portal - ravel. This saves walking from penn back to glitspur, saves walking back out of the foundry (a long walk), and doesn't cost much extra time. I think you should time it, because i'm fairly sure its faster. also, you can send a character on ahead to penn's while dealing with lenny.

A few other random things you may or may not have picked up:
- you can bash the gate in the buried village to go through into the catacombs, which is faster.
- you don't need to kill any trigits if you solo ravel... it is usually possible to dodge/lose the trigits and reenter the shadows before getting to ravel... of course you will leave the shadows when you talk to her, but i have managed to kill her without killing any trigits.
- I found the first floor of trias' building to be a bit annoying... from memory if you have two characters, preferably Annah and TNO using stealth, you can get one of them up the stairs without killing any enemies, but its tricky.

I'm not currently on any form of messenger, which are you on?

As for Mortuary, you can get all three items from the down path. However, I'm able to navigate the two characters rather ok, TNO goes his normal route and Morte just bashes and loots the copper from the drawer.

The difference in Trias' hp must be because of the game version, I see no other option. He has at least 500-600 hp in my version (I use 1.0.0000, unpatched)... I made a movie illustrating the bossfights: http://download.yousendit.com/4C4896D94ACE6727

In the movie, I kill Ignus with the method that works if you don't get a crit on him, i couldn't be bothered to retry a million times to crit him just for the purpose of the movie. In the Ravel fight, the drc didn't take place for some reason and TNO didn't backstab her twice (just once) but she died fast anyway. As for Trias, you can see how much health he has, and that maneouvering was just to show his AI, I will just close Morte in that room and let Vhailor attack him while TNO restealths and backstabs, in the real run.

I'll check some info on proficiencies. I had the idea of kicking out Morte before the Ravel fight and getting him back after it to litany of curses her. He doesn't need the exp, he's only there for the litany and he takes half the exp from TNO if left during the talk.

Nice Lower Ward route, I will check it out, it seems faster. Also, didn't know you could bash the gate, thanks for telling that. In the administration building, the sohmiens are blocking the stairs and there is no way to get upstairs without killing at least two (and if it is, it's slower, since you need to wait until they move).

I'm not using any messenger as well, Cheesy

What's your mail then? :p

[quote]ah, I knew there was a reason for cha. good going.