Pandemonium

Equinox

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2011-11-07 01:32:26 am

Obsessicus Parrotus

I finally have a very solid estimate as to how long my run will be. The way I have it set up with stuff cut out Sad

The run should take very close to 41-42 minutes and that's some errors included and it is an estimation and things go wrong easily. I went and recorded my best times in each level the way I had to do it to string the entire game together. I would feel brave enough to post these times however most of them are around 5-10 secs off from perfect or more than that due to things I had to cut out such as:
1. Relying on jumps to propel you extremely far
2. Hurting myself to save time except for 2 parts in the entire run
3. "Narrow" fits, which refer to when slipping past an enemy or a boulder or something is extremely risky, such as some of the boulders in Lost Caves
4. Chance factors such as Goon Honcho that I can't honestly control too well so I had to settle for 1:06(did I get that wrong its awfully close to the world record for 3 jumps?), and you know what I have videos of me falling through the level select and dying isn't that nice and chancy? Most of the bugs I have encountered stop me clean and I have to start over, very annoying so i may have to "avoid" certain terrain areas that have proven risky for me to step on.

I finally have a very solid estimate as to how long my run will be. The way I have it set up with stuff cut out :( The run should take very close to[b] 41-42 minutes [/b]and that's some errors included and it is an estimation and things go wrong easily. I went and recorded my best times in each level the way I had to do it to string the entire game together. I would feel brave enough to post these times however most of them are around 5-10 secs off from perfect or more than that due to things I had to cut out such as:
1. Relying on jumps to propel you extremely far
2. Hurting myself to save time except for 2 parts in the entire run
3. "Narrow" fits, which refer to when slipping past an enemy or a boulder or something is extremely risky, such as some of the boulders in Lost Caves
4. Chance factors such as Goon Honcho that I can't honestly control too well so I had to settle for 1:06(did I get that wrong its awfully close to the world record for 3 jumps?), and you know what I have videos of me falling through the level select and dying isn't that nice and chancy? Most of the bugs I have encountered stop me clean and I have to start over, very annoying so i may have to "avoid" certain terrain areas that have proven risky for me to step on.

Orgelpeter

2011-11-07 07:06:58 am

Hey Dumpsterknight, just wanted to tell you, that you are not posting for yourself. Myself, and I would guess a few others too, are following this run with great interest. I watched your Fargus run and must say, that I was very impressed (although you were too careful in some parts, but I am sure you are going to change that). It's just nice too see this game of my childhood (which I never managed to beat) getting destroyed. Great job so far!

BTW: I don't think that a segmented run would make much sense. Considering how the games "save system" aka passwords work, ILs are probably a better idea.

Silmaranza

2011-11-07 11:47:15 am

That's a good point Orgelpeter, but then the question is if you're allowed to do IL runs with 6 health containers for all levels.

Dumpsterknight, I'm not working on this game right now cause I don't have time but I might some time in the future. I'm really looking forward to your single segment run though, 41 minutes sounds very impressive! Can't wait to see it. Smiley

Orgelpeter

2011-11-09 03:42:22 am

Congratulations for getting this run going. Maybe you can upload some of your segments to Youtube to get some feedback? Just recently a run (Age of Mythology) was rejected, because it wasn't optimised enough, which could have been prevented, had he just shown his progress.
And of course I am curious to actually see your runs. Wink

ILs: I am not sure whether doing the ILs with 6 heart containers would be legit. You can only activate them by password, which is a form of cheating. Technically opening up the levels per Password is cheating too, but I belive that SDA makes exeptions for that. At the very least doing ILs with full hearts should be a different category. A final ruling from Flip or someone should be made for that. If it saves enough time another category should be fine I guess. Do you have an estimate how much time can be saved through intentional damage?

Equinox

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2011-11-09 10:25:01 am

Obsessicus Parrotus

To answer your question Orgelpeter:

The biggest change from loading a level is your health and it seriously catches up to you around level 9. An exact estimation of time is hard to find at how much it saves you, but I could take a wild guess and say 40 seconds? And that doesn't include the extra need to be a little cautious when you only have 1 health. Don't quote me on that and it would be a huge pain to tell the exact difference. Also I don't think I have found them all since I can't even use them really but i can think of 7 cases of intentional damage cutting significant time(1.5 seconds+ each). In my oppinion I see no trouble as long as theres no 7 or 8 heart cheat on. If it was more than 10% of the total time from it I would call it out but its not a significant enough time. I find myself wishing for one more heart and thats it, 7 hearts makes it rediculously easy.

Equinox

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2011-11-15 11:13:56 pm

Obsessicus Parrotus

Working on third segment and I noticed a lot of ways to Improve the Cloud Citadel, Efreet Palace, and 2 ways to improve Frozen Cavern all while still being able to do the rest of the game very easily. If I want full runs right now, something needs to happen to this level so I can kill it more reliably.
This level is actually truly TOO DIFFICULT, impossible even to grab most of the stuff. Reliable means maybe20% success rate. Like 20 significant time saving tricks, were talking 2-15 seconds+ each and each are extremely high risk high reward. I have struggled with this level on the highest difficulty for more than a week, and I will tell you now that I cannot do it anywhere near perfect in more than 20 tries, more than that on a bad night, that's too high for a SS in my opinion(3-5% success rate FFS).
Cloud Citadel is the enemy to this run, its not so much figuring out the best way to do the level, (I know it trust me) as it is a compromise between reality and perfection. It would take me over 100 tries or more individually to get a run through this level that was even close to perfect. Its the most non-linear level in the game giving so many ways to complete it, and really only 1 right way. Its a multiple story level, one mistake means 10-30 seconds lost from falling to the previous tier. Sad

Too much at risk to do perfectly, I write this because the level needs to be weakened a little significantly more than any other level to the point where it looks like its done carefully, due to how unrealistic the term "perfection" is in this level. I posted this because of the major decision to majorly cut back on it, something i have never had to do until now.Its the only level in the game that I would dare even attempt to do this too.

Expect to see those videos start to get uploaded to Youtube by the end of this week, looking back on them I have found a few things to "explore," meaning I don't even know if some of the stuff is possible. I will list errors, things I want feedback on the most, and methods that were cut out for being too risky in the actual videos. Everything turns out to be pretty solid except for Levels 4,5,9,12, which we can talk about, Cheesy

the good news is the last 2 levels in and the boss are perfect. Meaning I am comfortable with almost all of the levels.

Working on third segment and I noticed a lot of ways to Improve the Cloud Citadel, Efreet Palace, and 2 ways to improve Frozen Cavern all while still being able to do the rest of the game very easily. If I want full runs right now, something needs to happen to this level so I can kill it more reliably.
 This level is actually truly TOO DIFFICULT, impossible even to grab most of the stuff.  Reliable means maybe20% success rate. Like 20 significant time saving tricks, were talking 2-15 seconds+ each and each are extremely high risk high reward. I have struggled with this level on the highest difficulty for more than a week, and I will tell you now that I cannot do it anywhere near perfect in more than 20 tries, more than that on a bad night, that's too high for a SS in my opinion(3-5% success rate FFS).
 Cloud Citadel is the enemy to this run, its not so much figuring out the best way to do the level, (I know it trust me) as it is a compromise between reality and perfection. It would take me over 100 tries or more individually to get a run through this level that was even close to perfect. Its the most non-linear level in the game giving so many ways to complete it, and really only 1 right way. Its a multiple story level, one mistake means 10-30 seconds lost from falling to the previous tier. :( Too much at risk to do perfectly, I write this because the level needs to be weakened a little significantly more than any other level to the point where it looks like its done carefully, due to how unrealistic the term "perfection" is in this level. I posted this because of the major decision to majorly cut back on it, something i have never had to do until now.Its the only level in the game that I would dare even attempt to do this too.

Expect to see those videos start to get uploaded to Youtube by the end of this week, looking back on them I have found a few things to "explore," meaning I don't even know if some of the stuff is possible. I will list errors, things I want feedback on the most, and methods that were cut out for being too risky in the actual videos. Everything turns out to be pretty solid except for Levels 4,5,9,12, which we can talk about, :D the good news is the last 2 levels in and the boss are perfect. Meaning I am comfortable with almost all of the levels.

Silmaranza

2011-11-16 10:04:07 am

Yeah I really don't think we can give much feedback or suggestions for possible improvement until you post a video with all tricks you're trying to pull off and what goes wrong etc.

I think Pandemonium is a game that is relativily easy to practice in the sense that all paths of (most) enemies and objects are predictable so it's just a matter of finding the right path that will always work.

Equinox

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2011-11-16 09:50:52 pm

Obsessicus Parrotus

You're right I was just basically wondering if its okay to have a level thats an eyesore somewhere in there.
The enemies and obstacle in this level are much more random. I haven't had to spend more than several nights in row on any level with maybe a light re-look a week later for something I missed, this one is different, I settled with it being is own segment for now.

Orgelpeter

2011-11-22 11:53:51 am

This is a kind of underestimated game. You can't expect too much activity in this thread exept from yourself, but know, that a few people are following your progress.
I myself am very busy right now (and for the next 2 weeks) so I can't help you much. But I can tell you that your progress compared to your "power run" is very good. The first few levels look very much optimised. Good Luck!

Equinox

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2011-12-03 01:10:19 am

Obsessicus Parrotus

There is a bug or something in the coding of the game that's worth mentioning. For some reason you cannot double jump immediately after a checkpoint or the beginning of a level until you jump once or become airborne(with the exception of level 4 because you fall at the beginning). Its been a real pain because stupid me I never really realized it until now! All the times I restarted my attempts.

Levels 2,4,5,10,14 and 18 can be a pain in the ass because they all have parts that are like this where you have to jump before you can double jump.
Hollow Stairway- Can't double jump off slide on roof
Lost Caves- The last checkpoint made me mess up because I forgot to jump which is why I couldn't reach the ledge Tongue

Fungus Grotto- Very beginning of level, can't double jump off slide
Canopy Village- Can't double jump at the beginning of the level
Dragoon Skyfort- Last checkpoint, can't double jump over the fires onto the clouds unless you jump first
Storm Temple- Very beginning, second checkpoint, the last "rising"(falling :P) platform before the end of the level is very difficult to double jump off of because of this principle

Putting this run together has really shown me how much simpler it is to find out secrets and tricks compared to choosing which ones to keep in a SS without making a level too difficult. The biggest thing is the urge not to take risks or experiment when you're recording, Smiley

I dunno maybe its just me, but it happens a lot when you intentionally leave something out of a run that's in plain sight. I aim to get most levels to at least a 75% success rate before i try to string it together with another level.

Getting a perfect attempt on a level that can’t go any faster is usually like 1-2% for me when I actually tried to do it in a few levels such as Lost Caves and Spider Forest(2 of the hardest). So when I started finding a few levels that couldn’t go any faster, I tried stringing them together, and, doh! I couldn’t string levels together anymore! So I realized that on most of the levels I had hit the cap on difficulty and I had to start experimenting with taking a few things out that were breaking the attempts. Really only 5 levels had 10 seconds or more taken off of them, partially due to luck such as random enemies and platforms. To be honest every level had something in it that was just too risky, I call those omissions. Tongue

The list goes on and on and even the first level had a few things that just made it far too difficult to replicate in more than 5 tries(trust me you get so sick of the first 3 levels that you can’t even play anymore, it’s important to reduce stress in these earlier levels because I am probably going to pass through them like 10 times in a night, though the first attempt of the night is usually the best.

Most of the levels had to be “adjusted” or nerfed as I say so that I could at least string a few levels together, an average of 5 seconds per level. 2% success rates on levels is impossible to do in a SS. I had so many time saving tricks I couldn't get past levels 1-4 in 2 weeks(which is sad considering I have already practiced them for months) I have practiced levels 1-13 to the breaking point and I am sure I can get those in 1 segment in a week or two.

There is a bug or something in the coding of the game that's worth mentioning. For some reason you cannot double jump immediately after a checkpoint or the beginning of a level until you jump once or become airborne(with the exception of level 4 because you fall at the beginning). Its been a real pain because stupid me I never really realized it until now! All the times I restarted my attempts.

[color="cyan"]Levels 2,4,5,10,14[/color] and [color="cyan"]18[/color] can be a pain in the ass because they all have parts that are like this where you have to jump before you can double jump.
[color="blue"]Hollow Stairway[/color]- Can't double jump off slide on roof
[color="blue"]Lost Caves[/color]- The last checkpoint made me mess up because I forgot to jump which is why I couldn't reach the ledge :P
[color="blue"]Fungus Grotto[/color]- Very beginning of level, can't double jump off slide
[color="blue"]Canopy Village[/color]- Can't double jump at the beginning of the level
[color="blue"]Dragoon Skyfort[/color]- Last checkpoint, can't double jump over the fires onto the clouds unless you jump first
[color="blue"]Storm Temple[/color]- Very beginning, second checkpoint, the last "rising"(falling :P) platform before the end of the level is very difficult to double jump off of because of this principle

Putting this run together has really shown me how much simpler it is to find out secrets and tricks compared to choosing which ones to keep in a SS without making a level too difficult. The biggest thing is the urge not to take risks or experiment when you're recording, :)  I dunno maybe its just me, but it happens a lot when you intentionally leave something out of a run that's in plain sight. I aim to get most levels to at least a 75% success rate before i try to string it together with another level.

Getting a perfect attempt on a level that can’t go any faster is usually like 1-2% for me when I actually tried to do it in a few levels such as Lost Caves and Spider Forest(2 of the hardest). So when I started finding a few levels that couldn’t go any faster, I tried stringing them together, and, doh! I couldn’t string levels together anymore! So I realized that on most of the levels I had hit the cap on difficulty and I had to start experimenting with taking a few things out that were breaking the attempts. Really only 5 levels had 10 seconds or more taken off of them, partially due to luck such as random enemies and platforms. To be honest every level had something in it that was just too risky, I call those omissions. :P  The list goes on and on and even the first level had a few things that just made it far too difficult to replicate in more than 5 tries(trust me you get so sick of the first 3 levels that you can’t even play anymore, it’s important to reduce stress in these earlier levels because I am probably going to pass through them like 10 times in a night, though the first attempt of the night is usually the best.

Most of the levels had to be “adjusted” or nerfed as I say so that I could at least string a few levels together, an average of 5 seconds per level. 2% success rates on levels is impossible to do in a SS. I had so many time saving tricks I couldn't get past levels 1-4 in 2 weeks(which is sad considering I have already practiced them for months) I have practiced levels 1-13 to the breaking point and I am sure I can get those in 1 segment in a week or two.

Kabob34

2011-12-04 12:13:58 pm

I Speedrun PC games everyday.

I know it's a terrible time, and theres no video, but I got INSANE mode (or whatever it was) 17:06 (17 minutes 6 seconds)

Equinox

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2011-12-04 09:07:13 pm

Obsessicus Parrotus

Quote from Kabob34:

I know it's a terrible time, and there's no video, but I got INSANE mode (or whatever it was) 17:06 (17 minutes 6 seconds)

Mispost?

Kabob34

2011-12-06 07:23:39 pm

I Speedrun PC games everyday.

Sorry, I sometimes say the wrong words,

17 HOURS.

6 seconds.

17:00.06

TERRIBLE HUH.
I spent like 24 hours trying to beat it

Equinox

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2011-12-06 11:49:37 pm

Obsessicus Parrotus

Insane mode?

Kabob34

2011-12-07 07:10:49 pm

I Speedrun PC games everyday.

Isn't this the flash game with the golden muffin?

Orgelpeter

2011-12-08 02:09:36 am

Nope. This is an old PS1/PC game with a red haired sorceress and a crazy jester (look at Dumpsterknight's pic). For a few (very good) gameplay videos look at the links in this thread.

Ok?

2011-12-08 06:23:33 pm

:|

Equinox

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2011-12-10 11:41:44 pm

Obsessicus Parrotus

It's been 2 weeks so i thought I would give an update to anyone who reads my comments. Tongue

First off my computer broke so I can't record. It's giving no output to the monitor which has for some reason meant power supply issues or the need for a new graphics card in the past, but maybe I'll fix it myself. You never know with computers.
Anyway, I am currently practicing levels 1-8 quite a bit. So far my best attempt has been halfway through Burning Desert. I actually got 3 attempts tonight past level 4 which hasn't happened before. I am surprised i am progressing at all with finals coming up next week and work, so Christmas break should a be a fruitful opportunity to rapidly progress. I'm positive I'm not playing as good as I could be due to the stress of school.

I'd like to share a few things on LeVeL 2- HoLlOw StAiRwAy:
I really wish t0mbR4ider would finish the TAS. The endless pool of terrible "Let's Play" things on Youtube are all I have to look at as far as videos for the much more challenging levels, which is why I made that Fargus run in the first place(To show what could be done better). I hit enemies like the TAS all the time and I have only had a super jump happen on 5 occurrences and I remember them all. I have played level 1 literally over a thousand times miss or fail(5 months, Fargus included) and I think like 200 of those I actually tried to do it like the TAS before I modified it. As far as I know, you can trigger a super jump, or super cartwheel, by hitting an enemy at a pixel perfect angle, it's so unbelievably rare. To take advantage of every place in the game where you can do that, even in a segmented run is just, inhuman, thus is how the TAS did it. I may have overlooked something? To be quite honest I can't replicate a super jump more than once in a few hundred attempts which means they obviously won't be in a SS, and they actually may cause me to restart if they occur because it messes up the level timers.

It's been 2 weeks so i thought I would give an update to anyone who reads my comments. :P First off my computer broke so I can't record. It's giving no output to the monitor which has for some reason meant power supply issues or the need for a new graphics card in the past, but maybe I'll fix it myself. You never know with computers.
Anyway, I am currently practicing levels 1-8 quite a bit. So far my best attempt has been halfway through Burning Desert. I actually got 3 attempts tonight past level 4 which hasn't happened before. I am surprised i am progressing at all with finals coming up next week and work, so Christmas break should a be a fruitful opportunity to rapidly progress. I'm positive I'm not playing as good as I could be due to the stress of school.

I'd like to share a few things on [color="magenta"]LeVeL 2- HoLlOw StAiRwAy[/color]:
I really wish t0mbR4ider would finish the TAS. The endless pool of terrible "Let's Play" things on Youtube are all I have to look at as far as videos for the much more challenging levels, which is why I made that Fargus run in the first place(To show what could be done better). I hit enemies like the TAS all the time and I have only had a super jump happen on 5 occurrences and I remember them all. I have played level 1 literally over a thousand times miss or fail(5 months, Fargus included) and I think like 200 of those I actually tried to do it like the TAS before I modified it. As far as I know, you can trigger a super jump, or super cartwheel, by hitting an enemy at a pixel perfect angle, it's so unbelievably rare. To take advantage of every place in the game where you can do that, even in a segmented run is just, inhuman, thus is how the TAS did it. I may have overlooked something? To be quite honest I can't replicate a super jump more than once in a few hundred attempts which means they obviously won't be in a SS, and they actually may cause me to restart if they occur because it messes up the level timers.

Equinox

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2011-12-25 09:09:02 pm

Obsessicus Parrotus

Merry Christmas, I have a few questions I would like to know as I finish up my run. This is my first speed run so I am making sure I do this right. Lets go over some key points real quick that were brought up a few months ago:

1. As I said when I started doing the run, I do it on a PS3 using the PSN Store version of the game and there are no differences whatsoever to playing it on a PS1 that I have encountered. Mikwuyma said this was okay but I am bringing it up again for clarification. I can show it was filmed on a PS3 PSN version by tapping the PS button on the controller and it has the game manual which should be proof.
2. I film with a Hauppage HD-PVR and edit my videos using AVS Video Editor, no issues with sound or video its the best it could be and I can make it any type of video I want when I publish it. As I write this though, my video editor is becoming unable to handle file types such as M2TS, which means I may need to convert it from now on before I even work on it.

Question 1: The end file will most likely be MPEG 4 is that okay?
Question 2: My videos are very high quality, 720i looks nice on a PS1 game like Pandemonium(load times ugh). Is it going to get turned down for being that high quality?
Question 3: Obviously, since my run is SS, a segmented run would be better, but probably only by a few minutes. The thing is whether its a segmented or a SS, they are both any % because there really is no 100%. So, being inexperienced I ask a dumb question after looking at the rules, would a SS video and segmented video both be listed even though they're kind of the same category? I would hate to do a SS just to get it replaced by a segmented in the "near" future and not be shown at all. So, 2 separate categories, 2 separate videos listed for one game? I know, stupid question but I didn't find a game on the list where that happened with 2 any %.

Merry Christmas, I have a few questions I would like to know as I finish up my run. This is my first speed run so I am making sure I do this right. Lets go over some key points real quick that were brought up a few months ago:

1. As I said when I started doing the run, I do it on a PS3 using the PSN Store version of the game and there are no differences whatsoever to playing it on a PS1 that I have encountered. Mikwuyma said this was okay but I am bringing it up again for clarification. I can show it was filmed on a PS3 PSN version by tapping the PS button on the controller and it has the game manual which should be proof.
2. I film with a [u]Hauppage HD-PVR[/u] and edit my videos using [u]AVS Video Editor[/u], no issues with sound or video its the best it could be and I can make it any type of video I want when I publish it. As I write this though, my video editor is becoming unable to handle file types such as M2TS, which means I may need to convert it from now on before I even work on it.

[color="yellow"]Question 1:[/color] The end file will most likely be MPEG 4 is that okay?
[color="yellow"]Question 2:[/color] My videos are very high quality, 720i looks nice on a PS1 game like Pandemonium(load times ugh). Is it going to get turned down for being that high quality?
[color="yellow"]Question 3: [/color]Obviously, since my run is SS, a segmented run would be better, but probably only by a few minutes. The thing is whether its a segmented or a SS, they are both any % because there really is no 100%. So, being inexperienced I ask a dumb question after looking at the rules, would a SS video and segmented video both be listed even though they're kind of the same category? I would hate to do a SS just to get it replaced by a segmented in the "near" future and not be shown at all. So, 2 separate categories, 2 separate videos listed for one game? I know, stupid question but I didn't find a game on the list where that happened with 2 any %.

Orgelpeter

2011-12-26 01:42:30 am

Merry Christmas to you too.

Your run will probably be listed as done on the PS3, but can be replaced be a PS1 run, if it is better. Of course only if no major differences between versions are detected in the future.

Questions 2: I doubt very much this would be a problem. There are already some runs with "extreme" quality on the side. If you are not sure you could always send your raw files to the staff and they do the rest.
Questions 3: Segmented runs do not replaces SS runs. So yes, there would be two seperate runs on the side. Of course if the SS is better, it does replace the segmented.

I'm sorry I can't help you much with your technical questions, but if no one competent answers here you can always ask your questions in the "tech support" forum.

Equinox

Edit history:

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2011-12-26 04:00:45 am

Obsessicus Parrotus

Thanks for the help

My brother has come to me and pointed out things in my run I can't believe I missed, and told me that I have made the levels too hard(Trying to empathize with previous nerd rage on failing at the end of Storm Temple 45 minutes in Tongue

). Truthfully I hadn't touched levels 11-18 in a month and I got some of them on the first try...proof I need breaks more. I practice so much my performance heavily declines.

To be honest I have noticed no differences at all between the PS3 and the ps1 and I have been playing it for years on many different consoles. My father brought this game to me when I was 7 when I had the chicken pox to make nme feelbetter and I played the crap out of it and kept going back to it every year. I want another copy of it for my collection...I sold many of my old games for a PSP when I was addicted to hand held gaming, that's when I played this on it and started wondering about going extreme with it.

Equinox

Edit history:

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2011-12-27 04:17:24 am

Obsessicus Parrotus

Starting to wonder if I am the only one working on a run for this or not, I have come across a few people who know an awful lot about speed running this game.

Best attempt so far from new times =
End of Level 9- 16:15 w/ ~10 seconds of errors(all in level 7) I don't allow more than 2 seconds of errors in levels 1-8.

These times are the best I am able to pull off in a SS except for a few levels(4,5,1217,18, these times have been slightly adjusted to make the desired run about 38:45), and its those levels that have like 30+ tries.
Best IL times(First in level control of character to the loading icon after hitting X at the password part "Press X Continue") to nearest hundredth of a second(.00):
1. Skull Fortress - 1:24.408 Tries = 1 Omissions- 3
~1:23 on the TAS(I believe! Don't quote me on that). Not like the TAS at all, and to be honest I think the TAS did some stuff incorrectly though I can't lay a finger on anything in particular. I don't think its at all possible to get a better time in this level without doing the 3 things I simply cannot do due to difficulty, 3 omissions that's it on this level.
2. Hollow Stairway - 1:30.883 Tries = 1 Omissions- 1
TAS time is close to 1:27, but I still get to hold a candle up to it with Nikki. I would count this 1 second lower in the final product that is 1 shottable unlike the crazy roof sling that still happens a lot
3. Dungeon Tower - 1:27.906 Tries = 1 Omissions- 2
Easy level...you can actually mess up at a few parts and its okay because you have to wait for the spikes/trampolines anyway
4. Lost Caves - 1:47.167 Tries =6 Omissions- 3-4
May have to wait for a boulder at the part where 5 of them come down together, other than that the level is the same and with the waiting I can usually do this level in 1 in 5 attempts, this was a near perfected time I did for fun, sometimes I can't resist trying to optimize it when I see how to do it
5. Fungus Grotto - 1:33.791 Tries = 2 Omissions- 2
This level had an insane stunt I will not do and its pretty obvious what it is, it took me 30 tries to pull off, so I will be taking the top path instead to make it one shottable
6. Acid Pools - 0:53.497 Tries = 1 Omissions- 0
Easy level, that jump in the acid only hurt me once this time you can't really do the level any better
Boss 1 Shroom Lord - ~0:30 Tries = 1 Omissions- 0
Can't do it any faster than this, I experimented with this level one last time and it can't go better
7. Burning Desert - 2:07.860 Tries = 2 Omissions- 3
This is an easy level to speed run despite how many tricks are involved. I can pull all of them off except the one at the very end with the boulder jump. There is a tiny bit of luck involved but it usually happens
8. Branky Wastes - 1:43.724 Tries = 1 Omissions- 3
Again pretty easy I filmed this time in sequence with level 7 this time
9. Spider Forest - 1:51.810 Tries = 1 Omissions- 1
A very good time, not hard to replicate and I got this on my second try immediately after the Branky wastes
10. Canopy Village - 1:38.195 Tries = 4 Omissions- 2
Not hard to line that crazy propelled jump up at the end at all, the main issue is the slime and the luck factor when you first drop down from the canopy and become a turtle, the enemies there have semi- random locations(this basically means the enemies movements are so sensitive that they are affected on the entire level and not checkpoints, unbelievably). This level is doable for me in 2 shots or less but I tried to mess around with the 2/3 part a little too much this time so it was actually 30 attempts or so
11. Soldier Barracks - 2:02.246 Tries = 5 Omissions- 0
I rate this level one of the toughest in the game because of the last 3/4 of the level. That giant room with the lumber is very easy to mess up and the second part you can even die. I have 1 shot it this way before and it was only this many tries from experimentation, it really only takes up to 5
12. Honcho's Logmill - 2:40.192 Tries = 2 Omissions- 2
Got this on my first try the previous night after I hadn't touched in a month, proof I need breaks. You can take intentional damage on the saws at the end to save significant time, but I think i am just going to wait...Not as difficult as the previous level surprisingly
Boss 2 Goon Honcho - 1:03.365 (World Record - 0:49.239) Tries = 15 Omissions- 1
This enormous dickmitten has been giving me issues lately...it seems he has a random spawn location and may even appear on top of the switch at the start, which usually means I have to take a hit to get to the balloon in time, but this also happened on my 49 second attempt, if only it didn't I would have had a 45 second world record...
13. Honcho's Airship - 1:38.786 Tries = 2 Omissions-0
This level is very easy, the dragon part is like driving a car, the only way to save time is to cut corners just right and steer correctly. I dropped the first time this night for less than a one second difference. : /
14. Dragoon Skyfort - 2:39.914 Tries = 2 Omissions- 2
The second extremely long, linear level introduced in the game and its full of many tricks that commonly go wrong, I don't expect to get through without some small errors but I did produce this time on my second try. This level used to be a nightmare but now it's pretty simple and faster too.
15. Cloud Citadel - 2:44.082 Tries = 10 Omissions-6
Perhaps nobody heard me when I expressed my anger for this level earlier. F%$# THIS PIECE OF S%$#! This is an awful time and i had to shave off 20 secs worth of tricks to simplify it
16. Efreet Palace - 1:51.406 Tries = 3 Omissions- 3
Ehh, 3 tries to get this time I don't think it needs to be nerfed more unless its over 5. I cut out many things like the last level, only the parts with the wind jumping though, the rest is simple. Terrible time I'll bet 1:30 is possible and it would take under a hundred tries to get.
17. Frozen Cavern - 1:47.269 Tries = 1 Omissions- 2
Easy level I have no trouble pulling off most of the stuff in this video, that time took 30 tries to make but the simpler version is easy to pull off, I need to be careful not to fall at the part with the gaps but other than that the tricks are extraordinarily easy to pull off except for the very start
18. Storm Temple - 2:31.645 Tries = 100 Omissions- 1
Yup, this is a record I can recreate most of it fairly easily with little consequence if I fail. This level doesn't rely on luck of any sort, its easy to know whats coming and the maneuvers are nowhere near as difficult as some of the other sky levels. Overall its actually one of the easier levels in the game though many would disagree. I actually completed this level on the first try without errors after not touching it for a month with a 8 second difference, again most of these attempts were experimentation. That shortcut at the climbing part took 60 attempts alone to get right but the last 20 parts I was doing it right every time so its safe to say I will be doing it in the SS. The only difficult parts in this level are the jumps in the 2/4 part. Landing that platform before the third slide is very very difficult and cuts 2 seconds. You can also slide jump ricochet of one of the walkapedes in the next part but it's very difficult to do and I drew the line there. I may go back to this level for a world record because I can't resist. Sub- 2:15 is impossible unless someone finds a way to grab the key quicker or do the final part quicker, both of which I experimented with and found nothing on.
Boss 3 Wishing Engine - 0:55.145 Tries = 1 Omissions-1
Simple did it on second try

Total time with these times: 38:30, I guesstimate mine will take ~39:30 due to a few errors. I personally don't believe sub 35:30 is possible for a segmented run, most of these times are close to a perfect run as is and just need the last few seconds grinded off of them such as the first 3 levels(Lot of work to do that, trust me). It's the hard levels that may have an obvious 10 second difference and the tricks I skip there are fairly obvious. If you see something in them I missed, chances are I did it on purpose. It's still a guess on 35:30 and I could be wrong due to bugs or routes I never found.

Starting to wonder if I am the only one working on a run for this or not, I have come across a few people who know an awful lot about speed running this game.

Best attempt so far from new times = 
[color="green"]End of Level 9[/color]- [color="yellow"]16:15[/color] w/ [color="red"]~10 seconds of errors[/color](all in level 7) I don't allow more than 2 seconds of errors in levels 1-8.

These times are the best I am able to pull off in a SS except for a few levels(4,5,1217,18, these times have been slightly adjusted to make the desired run about 38:45), and its those levels that have like 30+ tries.
[u][b]Best IL times(First in level control of character to the loading icon after hitting X at the password part "Press X Continue") to nearest hundredth of a second(.00):[/b][/u]
[color="cyan"]1. Skull Fortress[/color] -  [color="yellow"]1:24.408[/color] Tries = 1     [color="blue"]Omissions- [/color]3
~1:23 on the TAS(I believe! Don't quote me on that). Not like the TAS at all, and to be honest I think the TAS did some stuff incorrectly though I can't lay a finger on anything in particular. I don't think its at all possible to get a better time in this level without doing the 3 things I simply cannot do due to difficulty, 3 omissions that's it on this level.
[color="cyan"]2. Hollow Stairway[/color] -  [color="yellow"]1:30.883[/color] Tries = 1   [color="blue"]  Omissions-[/color] 1
TAS time is close to 1:27, but I still get to hold a candle up to it with Nikki. I would count this 1 second lower in the final product that is 1 shottable unlike the crazy roof sling that still happens a lot
[color="cyan"]3. Dungeon Tower[/color] -  [color="yellow"]1:27.906[/color] Tries = 1   [color="blue"]   Omissions-[/color] 2
Easy level...you can actually mess up at a few parts and its okay because you have to wait for the spikes/trampolines anyway
[color="cyan"]4. Lost Caves[/color] -  [color="yellow"]1:47.167[/color] Tries =6       [color="blue"]Omissions-[/color] 3-4
May have to wait for a boulder at the part where 5 of them come down together, other than that the level is the same and with the waiting I can usually do this level in 1 in 5 attempts, this was a near perfected time I did for fun, sometimes I can't resist trying to optimize it when I see how to do it
[color="cyan"]5. Fungus Grotto[/color] -   [color="yellow"]1:33.791[/color] Tries = 2     [color="blue"]  Omissions-[/color] 2
This level had an insane stunt I will not do and its pretty obvious what it is, it took me 30 tries to pull off, so I will be taking the top path instead to make it one shottable
[color="cyan"]6. Acid Pools[/color] -  [color="yellow"]0:53.497[/color] Tries = 1           [color="blue"] Omissions-[/color] 0
Easy level, that jump in the acid only hurt me once this time you can't really do the level any better
[color="cyan"]Boss 1 Shroom Lord[/color] -  [color="yellow"]~0:30[/color] Tries = 1    [color="blue"]  Omissions-[/color] 0
Can't do it any faster than this, I experimented with this level one last time and it can't go better
[color="cyan"]7. Burning Desert[/color] -  [color="yellow"]2:07.860[/color] Tries = 2     [color="blue"] Omissions-[/color] 3
This is an easy level to speed run despite how many tricks are involved. I can pull all of them off except the one at the very end with the boulder jump. There is a tiny bit of luck involved but it usually happens
[color="cyan"]8. Branky Wastes[/color] - [color="yellow"] 1:43.724[/color] Tries = 1   [color="blue"]  Omissions-[/color] 3
Again pretty easy I filmed this time in sequence with level 7 this time
[color="cyan"]9. Spider Forest[/color] -  [color="yellow"]1:51.810[/color] Tries = 1        [color="blue"] Omissions-[/color] 1
A very good time, not hard to replicate and I got this on my second try immediately after the Branky wastes
[color="cyan"]10. Canopy Village[/color] -  [color="yellow"]1:38.195[/color] Tries = 4    [color="blue"]Omissions-[/color] 2
Not hard to line that crazy propelled jump up at the end at all, the main issue is the slime and the luck factor when you first drop down from the canopy and become a turtle, the enemies there have semi- random locations(this basically means the enemies movements are so sensitive that they are affected on the entire level and not checkpoints, unbelievably). This level is doable for me in 2 shots or less but I tried to mess around with the 2/3 part a little too much this time so it was actually 30 attempts or so
[color="cyan"]11. Soldier Barracks[/color] -  [color="yellow"]2:02.246[/color] Tries = 5     [color="blue"] Omissions- [/color]0
I rate this level one of the toughest in the game because of the last 3/4 of the level. That giant room with the lumber is very easy to mess up and the second part you can even die. I have 1 shot it this way before and it was only this many tries from experimentation, it really only takes up to 5
[color="cyan"]12. Honcho's Logmill[/color] -  [color="yellow"]2:40.192[/color] Tries = 2        [color="blue"] Omissions- [/color]2
Got this on my first try the previous night after I hadn't touched in a month, proof I need breaks. You can take intentional damage on the saws at the end to save significant time, but I think i am just going to wait...Not as difficult as the previous level surprisingly
[color="cyan"]Boss 2 Goon Honcho[/color] - [color="yellow"] 1:03.365 (World Record - 0:49.239)[/color] Tries = 15  [color="blue"]Omissions-[/color] 1
This enormous dickmitten has been giving me issues lately...it seems he has a random spawn location and may even appear on top of the switch at the start, which usually means I have to take a hit to get to the balloon in time, but this also happened on my 49 second attempt, if only it didn't I would have had a 45 second world record...
[color="cyan"]13. Honcho's Airship[/color] - [color="yellow"] 1:38.786[/color] Tries = 2      [color="blue"]Omissions-[/color]0
This level is very easy, the dragon part is like driving a car, the only way to save time is to cut corners just right and steer correctly. I dropped the first time this night for less than a one second difference. : /
[color="cyan"]14. Dragoon Skyfort[/color] -  [color="yellow"]2:39.914[/color] Tries = 2        [color="blue"]Omissions- [/color]2
The second extremely long, linear level introduced in the game and its full of many tricks that commonly go wrong, I don't expect to get through without some small errors but I did produce this time on my second try. This level used to be a nightmare but now it's pretty simple and faster too.
[color="cyan"]15. Cloud Citadel[/color] -  [color="yellow"]2:44.082[/color] Tries = 10           [color="blue"]Omissions-[/color]6
Perhaps nobody heard me when I expressed my anger for this level earlier. F%$# THIS PIECE OF S%$#! This is an awful time and i had to shave off 20 secs worth of tricks to simplify it
[color="cyan"]16. Efreet Palace[/color] -  [color="yellow"]1:51.406[/color] Tries = 3             [color="blue"]Omissions-[/color] 3
Ehh, 3 tries to get this time I don't think it needs to be nerfed more unless its over 5. I cut out many things like the last level, only the parts with the wind jumping though, the rest is simple. Terrible time I'll bet 1:30 is possible and it would take under a hundred tries to get.
[color="cyan"]17. Frozen Cavern[/color] - [color="yellow"] 1:47.269[/color] Tries = 1           [color="blue"]Omissions- [/color]2
Easy level I have no trouble pulling off most of the stuff in this video, that time took 30 tries to make but the simpler version is easy to pull off, I need to be careful not to fall at the part with the gaps but other than that the tricks are extraordinarily easy to pull off except for the very start
[color="cyan"]18. Storm Temple[/color] -  [color="yellow"]2:31.645[/color] Tries = 100         [color="blue"]Omissions-[/color] 1
Yup, this is a record I can recreate most of it fairly easily with little consequence if I fail. This level doesn't rely on luck of any sort, its easy to know whats coming and the maneuvers are nowhere near as difficult as some of the other sky levels. Overall its actually one of the easier levels in the game though many would disagree. I actually completed this level on the first try without errors after not touching it for a month with a 8 second difference, again most of these attempts were experimentation. That shortcut at the climbing part took 60 attempts alone to get right but the last 20 parts I was doing it right every time so its safe to say I will be doing it in the SS. The only difficult parts in this level are the jumps in the 2/4 part. Landing that platform before the third slide is very very difficult and cuts 2 seconds. You can also slide jump ricochet of one of the walkapedes in the next part but it's very difficult to do and I drew the line there. I may go back to this level for a world record because I can't resist. Sub- 2:15 is impossible unless someone finds a way to grab the key quicker or do the final part quicker, both of which I experimented with and found nothing on.
[color="cyan"]Boss 3 Wishing Engine[/color] - [color="yellow"]0:55.145[/color] Tries = 1       [color="blue"]Omissions-[/color]1
Simple did it on second try

Total time with these times: 38:30, I guesstimate mine will take ~39:30 due to a few errors. I personally don't believe sub 35:30 is possible for a segmented run, most of these times are close to a perfect run as is and just need the last few seconds grinded off of them such as the first 3 levels(Lot of work to do that, trust me). It's the hard levels that may have an obvious 10 second difference and the tricks I skip there are fairly obvious. If you see something in them I missed, chances are I did it on purpose. It's still a guess on 35:30 and I could be wrong due to bugs or routes I never found.

Equinox

Edit history:

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2012-01-20 09:33:58 pm

Obsessicus Parrotus

[u][b]Best Attempt: End of Boss 2 ~24:08.648(tough to tell how much error time bc I lost my best run video but I would guess around 30 seconds of errors, which is too high but I know that, I will start comparing when I get a full run)

Not much has changed, they say repeating the same thing over and over expecting different results is insanity, and that would be where i am at then. Sad

I have to make it easier, It's practically impossible to do levels 10-12 the way I have it set up.(I have been trying this way for over 6 weeks). Far too hard and not necessary to be that perfect in a SS imo, correct me if I am wrong but pulling off levels within a 10 second frame of a segmented time is absurd to replicate past this point except for a few levels.

Side Note: I have found a reliable way to down Goon Honcho in 45 seconds 70% of the time, this is 10 seconds faster than Xsnaw's record and can be done only if you intentionally wait a fraction of a second when the fight starts, this causes goon honcho to switch directions late and he calls you a chicken and also forces you to take a hit from the saw to get to the balloon, however, when he is like 20 feet from the balloon it allows you for some reason to smack him 4 times instead of just 3, saving you loads of time from that super air time that costs so many seconds, meaning just finish him with a tiny jump. I replicated it twice tonight in 30 minutes which means I may actually be able to do it in a SS, provided I actually come out of Honcho's Logmill with full health next time and that is rare. This falls under "intentional damage." Luckily the next level is easy and has loads of health.

[color="cyan"][u][b]Best Attempt: End of Boss 2 [/color][color="green"]~24:08.648[/color](tough to tell how much error time bc I lost my best run video but I would guess around [color="red"]30 seconds of errors[/color], which is too high but I know that, I will start comparing when I get a full run)

Not much has changed, they say repeating the same thing over and over expecting different results is insanity, and that would be where i am at then. :(  I have to make it easier, It's practically impossible to do levels 10-12 the way I have it set up.(I have been trying this way for over 6 weeks). Far too hard and not necessary to be that perfect in a SS imo, correct me if I am wrong but pulling off levels within a 10 second frame of a segmented time is absurd to replicate past this point except for a few levels.

Side Note: I have found a reliable way to down Goon Honcho in 45 seconds 70% of the time, this is 10 seconds faster than Xsnaw's record and can be done only if you intentionally wait a fraction of a second when the fight starts, this causes goon honcho to switch directions late and he calls you a chicken and also forces you to take a hit from the saw to get to the balloon, however, when he is like 20 feet from the balloon it allows you for some reason to smack him 4 times instead of just 3, saving you loads of time from that super air time that costs so many seconds, meaning just finish him with a tiny jump. I replicated it twice tonight in 30 minutes which means I may actually be able to do it in a SS, provided I actually come out of Honcho's Logmill with full health next time and that is rare. This falls under "intentional damage." Luckily the next level is easy and has loads of health.

Equinox

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2012-02-04 11:20:17 pm

Obsessicus Parrotus

Alright bi-weely [Journal]post:
Progress: I have nailed levels 1-Boss 2 pretty hard and I'm getting consistent attempts(several a night) past Shroom Lord, and many into Soldier Barracks with practically no errors. The errors usually start around level 7, but up to Burning Desert its very easy to get none with a 10:00 flat time or lower, approaching 9:50 is very good and probably not only means I had no errors but means I got lucky somewhere. My best time for that segment is currently 9:55(previous 10:15)
Omissions: Took out things at the end of Burning Desert and Canopy Village, crazy jumps, I have however, kept 2 luck reliant things in those levels because they seriously alter time, but from here on it won't be acceptable anymore.

I tried playing this on a PS2 today and I really see no difference with the loading times. I managed to learn how to hook up my Hauppage to the PS2 but I need a cable to that splits the signal back to the TV as well. The differences were:
-I was getting loads of frames per second issues that weren't on the PS3, slowing me down a little, the game actually felt slower than normal
-Only Hollow Stairway had noticeable different enemy locations, the rest were exactly the same in levels 1-8 that I played
-The graphics were terrible, I had forgotten just how terrible, the PS3 smooths out all the polygons and makes it look much better and also illuminates what is actually a very dark colored game

I am not sure which one I will do the final run on, but I am pretty sure that the PS3 will produce the fastest(and prettiest) time.

[color="green"][b]Alright bi-weely [Journal]post:[/b][/color]
[b]Progress:[/b] I have nailed levels 1-Boss 2 pretty hard and I'm  getting consistent attempts(several a night) past Shroom Lord, and many into Soldier Barracks with practically no errors. The errors usually start around level 7, but up to Burning Desert its very easy to get none with a [color="yellow"]10:00[/color] flat time or lower, approaching [color="yellow"]9:50[/color] is very good and probably not only means I had no errors but means I got lucky somewhere. My best time for that segment is currently [color="green"]9:55[/color](previous [color="yellow"]10:15[/color])
[b]Omissions:[/b] Took out things at the end of Burning Desert and Canopy Village, crazy jumps, I have however, kept 2 luck reliant things in those levels because they seriously alter time, but from here on it won't be acceptable anymore.

I tried playing this on a PS2 today and I really see no difference with the loading times. I managed to learn how to hook up my Hauppage to the PS2 but I need a cable to that splits the signal back to the TV as well. The differences were:
         -I was getting loads of frames per second issues that weren't on the PS3, slowing me down a little, the game actually felt slower than normal
         -Only Hollow Stairway had noticeable different enemy locations, the rest were exactly the same in levels 1-8 that I played
         -The graphics were terrible, I had forgotten just how terrible, the PS3 smooths out all the polygons and makes it look much better and also                                   illuminates what is actually a very dark colored game

[u]I am not sure which one I will do the final run on, but I am pretty sure that the PS3 will produce the fastest(and prettiest) time.[/u]

Orgelpeter

2012-02-06 03:08:33 am

Great to hear about your progress. Especially the getting consistent part. For SS'ing the game this is most important.

If you practice with the PS3 version all the time and there are no major differences, I would say stick with it. You should play what you feel most comfortably with (even if the reason is just better graphics).

Apart from that: Good Luck!