OoT [N64] Segmented [Suspended]

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2006-08-08 11:41:59 am

2006-08-08 10:40:02 am

Zelda Scientist®

Yeah slingshot skip isn't worth it. You lose more time in spirit even if you can swoed glitch w/ navi and then cross the gap using the green bubble (I want to do this...). Plus that would mean no bombchu in spirit which means we get bottle... bleh. Or we get skulltulas and go all the way to kakariko first to get the wallet. Not worth it IMO.

I JUST DID IT W/ SIDEHOPS IN MUPEN! green bubbles rule. that was freaking tough though. I might make a vid. It's definitely ridiculous. But slower than getting slingshot probably. To get the sword glitch just kill the stalfos, then run up to the green bubble and start crouch stabbing. Then, when the green bubble is in view, press Z and c-up. If you time it properly you can Ztarget it and also bring up the text w/out losing the lowstab's sword attack Wink

Ok, it's actually not that slow... IDK still probably daster to get the slingshot though because of the bombbag early and also the time in jabu to have bomb blow up to activate the switch in the 1st room, as well as the time it takes to cross this. Looks like we would still lose a little time. I'm sure we could do that sword glitch off the stalfos too... Indeed... you can. Basically, do a crouchstab and then very quickly lock on and bring up the dialog before you stand or something.

Slingshot Skip (it's easy)

Aka - yep. Megaton and deku are best. Bow sucks because you have to backflip and then continue the backrun.

Yeah slingshot skip isn't worth it. You lose more time in spirit even if you can swoed glitch w/ navi and then cross the gap using the green bubble (I want to do this...). Plus that would mean no bombchu in spirit which means we get bottle... bleh. Or we get skulltulas and go all the way to kakariko first to get the wallet. Not worth it IMO.

I JUST DID IT W/ SIDEHOPS IN MUPEN! green bubbles rule. that was freaking tough though. I might make a vid. It's definitely ridiculous. But slower than getting slingshot probably. To get the sword glitch just kill the stalfos, then run up to the green bubble and start crouch stabbing. Then, when the green bubble is in view, press Z and c-up. If you time it properly you can Ztarget it and also bring up the text w/out losing the lowstab's sword attack  ;)

Ok, it's actually not that slow... IDK still probably daster to get the slingshot though because of the bombbag early and also the time in jabu to have bomb blow up to activate the switch in the 1st room, as well as the time it takes to cross this. Looks like we would still lose a little time. I'm sure we could do that sword glitch off the stalfos too... Indeed... you can. Basically, do a crouchstab and then very quickly lock on and bring up the dialog before you stand or something.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHh96TWPPA4]Slingshot Skip[/url] (it's easy)

Aka - yep. Megaton and deku are best. Bow sucks because you have to backflip and then continue the backrun.

AKA

Edit history:

AKA: 2006-08-08 11:35:12 am

2006-08-08 11:33:54 am

He's back!

Quote:

I JUST DID IT W/ SIDEHOPS IN MUPEN! green bubbles rule. that was freaking tough though. I might make a vid. It's definitely ridiculous. But slower than getting slingshot probably. To get the sword glitch just kill the stalfos, then run up to the green bubble and start crouch stabbing. Then, when the green bubble is in view, press Z and c-up. If you time it properly you can Ztarget it and also bring up the text w/out losing the lowstab's sword attack Wink

Can't wait, but I think the slingshot skip would be justified in a TAS but not in any kind of speedrun. Remember that deku switching tactic during a backwalk, I just discovered that it can be done with any item that can be equipped and unequiped since drawing Links sword causes him to get boosted back and usually he stops dead after that, but withdrawing an item cancels the end effect out and Link just imeadiatley goes straight into a back walk, it works with the following items...

Deku stick
Slingshot
Bomerang
Hookshot
Bow

[quote]
I JUST DID IT W/ SIDEHOPS IN MUPEN! green bubbles rule. that was freaking tough though. I might make a vid. It's definitely ridiculous. But slower than getting slingshot probably. To get the sword glitch just kill the stalfos, then run up to the green bubble and start crouch stabbing. Then, when the green bubble is in view, press Z and c-up. If you time it properly you can Ztarget it and also bring up the text w/out losing the lowstab's sword attack  ;) [/quote]

Can't wait, but I think the slingshot skip would be justified in a TAS but not in any kind of speedrun. Remember that deku switching tactic during a backwalk, I just discovered that it can be done with any item that can be equipped and unequiped since drawing Links sword causes him to get boosted back and usually he stops dead after that, but withdrawing an item cancels the end effect out and Link just imeadiatley goes straight into a back walk, it works with the following items...

Deku stick
Slingshot
Bomerang
Hookshot 
Bow

AngerFist

2006-08-08 05:05:05 pm

Angered Me, You have!

*off topic, no hijacking intended* The first TAS run for this game has been encoded and published. If you are interested, check it out: http://tasvideos.org/movies.cgi?id=576

KD

Edit history:

KD: 2006-08-08 06:59:12 pm

2006-08-08 06:31:51 pm

Jealousy™

Quote:

Can't wait, but I think the slingshot skip would be justified in a TAS but not in any kind of speedrun. Remember that deku switching tactic during a backwalk, I just discovered that it can be done with any item that can be equipped and unequiped since drawing Links sword causes him to get boosted back and usually he stops dead after that, but withdrawing an item cancels the end effect out and Link just imeadiatley goes straight into a back walk, it works with the following items...

Deku stick
Slingshot
Bomerang
Hookshot
Bow

Duh

(it makes no sense for only 1 item to do that, since it's the animation that matters). However, I proposed "deku slide" as trick's name for a reason, because I think deku is the (only?) one that is doable on console, since you don't have to do it as often as with other items. Well, it's doable, certainly, but you would have to be a machine to do it consistently and it certainly wouldn't be fun.

Taking out the other items stop you also, you have to make TWO cancellations. Cancel taking out the item and cancel taking out the sword. If you mess up and are too late with a deku stick, you just keep on walking (don't be too late cancelling sword though). Also, since deku or sword-induced glide lasts much longer than the time it takes for an item to go in to first person mode and stop you, using a deku stick is more efficient of keypresses Wink

BTW Acryte that trick is awesome, even if it doesn't save time. Grin

[Edit]Oh of course, megaton. But we skip that :P. You don't have to backflip with bow, you cancel taking out the bow, just like you cancel taking out your sword.

[quote]

Can't wait, but I think the slingshot skip would be justified in a TAS but not in any kind of speedrun. Remember that deku switching tactic during a backwalk, I just discovered that it can be done with any item that can be equipped and unequiped since drawing Links sword causes him to get boosted back and usually he stops dead after that, but withdrawing an item cancels the end effect out and Link just imeadiatley goes straight into a back walk, it works with the following items...

Deku stick
Slingshot
Bomerang
Hookshot 
Bow

[/quote]

Duh :P (it makes no sense for only 1 item to do that, since it's the animation that matters). However, I proposed "deku slide" as trick's name for a reason, because I think deku is the (only?) one that is doable on console, since you don't have to do it as often as with other items. Well, it's doable, certainly, but you would have to be a machine to do it consistently and it certainly wouldn't be fun.

Taking out the other items stop you also, you have to make TWO cancellations. Cancel taking out the item and cancel taking out the sword. If you mess up and are too late with a deku stick, you just keep on walking (don't be too late cancelling sword though). Also, since deku or sword-induced glide lasts much longer than the time it takes for an item to go in to first person mode and stop you, using a deku stick is more efficient of keypresses ;)

BTW Acryte that trick is awesome, even if it doesn't save time. ;D

[Edit]Oh of course, megaton. But we skip that :P. You don't have to backflip with bow, you cancel taking out the bow, just like you cancel taking out your sword.

DLH112

Edit history:

DLH112: 2006-08-08 11:43:16 pm

2006-08-08 10:10:37 pm

I just had a series of interesting thoughts. What would happen if you used the hover thing to get to the exit path of ganon's castle before beating ganondorf? presumably its blocked by bars, so you couldn't go anywhere, but what about if you did the ganon's tower skip first? would that get rid of the bars blocking the way? And would that get rid of the last bars blocking your way (right before castle collapse scene)? I want to test this but I've never been able to do the hover well.

Edit: yea, they're seperate rooms. I watched yaujta's video and i tested it a bit myself. On the escape room if you send a bombchu it just goes up from the bridge towards the ceiling instead of around and around the bridge.

UchihaSasuke

2006-08-08 10:27:43 pm

Stand: Devil's Call in your Heart

someone with a gameshark should levitate there first. bomb hover in complete darkness sounds painful

YautjaElder

2006-08-08 10:50:32 pm

Speed is the key.

I have a video where I try that... there are no bars but there are no warp-zone either.

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2006-08-09 12:16:22 pm

2006-08-09 07:21:07 am

Zelda Scientist®

I watched the TAS through. Shadow was glorious... very TAS-like. Only one improvement in shadow though. Instead of waiting, you can do the hover superslide off the boat from farther away... to shave another 3 or 4 seconds off or so. But that was nice. Also, any hover super slide tests been done on the part where you backrun past the falling guillotines? You won't lose time really because as you wait for the timer, you are backrunning w/ it and then shield drop it to a roll... for a TAS this is doable and would save significant time depending on the blade timers... also, superslide should be done off the peahats when enroute to gerudo valley.

AKA

2006-08-09 07:52:05 pm

He's back!

Quote:

I watched the TAS through. Shadow was glorious... very TAS-like. Only one improvement in shadow though. Instead of waiting, you can do the hover superslide off the boat from farther away... to shave another 3 or 4 seconds off or so. But that was nice. Also, any hover super slide tests been done on the part where you backrun past the falling guillotines? You won't lose time really because as you wait for the timer, you are backrunning w/ it and then shield drop it to a roll... for a TAS this is doable and would save significant time depending on the blade timers... also, superslide should be done off the peahats when enroute to gerudo valley.

Shadow was definitley the best but really if I was to TAS the game (providing Mupen was more friendly and I had a pad converter) and used the same route and main tricks e.g. cucco jump, no King Zora skip, then I would probally be able to beat that by 5 mins, but in the end I was really happy that Guano managed to complete it since I had my own personal doubts. He says he wants to do another up to date one and hopefully optimize the hell out of the game. Acryte, I'm 90% that the blade timers are setup in the exact same way every time the area you're refering to is loaded.

[quote]I watched the TAS through. Shadow was glorious... very TAS-like. Only one improvement in shadow though. Instead of waiting, you can do the hover superslide off the boat from farther away... to shave another 3 or 4 seconds off or so. But that was nice. Also, any hover super slide tests been done on the part where you backrun past the falling guillotines? You won't lose time really because as you wait for the timer, you are backrunning w/ it and then shield drop it to a roll... for a TAS this is doable and would save significant time depending on the blade timers... also, superslide should be done off the peahats when enroute to gerudo valley.[/quote]

Shadow was definitley the best but really if I was to TAS the game (providing Mupen was more friendly and I had a pad converter) and used the same route and main tricks e.g. cucco jump, no King Zora skip, then I would probally be able to beat that by 5 mins, but in the end I was really happy that Guano managed to complete it since I had my own personal doubts. He says he wants to do another up to date one and hopefully optimize the hell out of the game. Acryte, I'm 90% that the blade timers are setup in the exact same way every time the area you're refering to is loaded.

Manocheese

2006-08-09 08:55:48 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Hmm, I hope an avi is hosted somewhere of that TAS (besides that BitTorrent bullshit). It sounds interesting.

Phauxe

2006-08-09 08:59:28 pm

Quote:

Hmm, I hope an avi is hosted somewhere of that TAS (besides that BitTorrent bullshit). It sounds interesting.

~_~, I'd like to think that getting that video in 20 minutes was pretty nice, but if you want a d/l speed to crawl, then the more power to you.

YautjaElder

Edit history:

YautjaElder: 2006-08-09 09:18:44 pm

2006-08-09 09:18:34 pm

Speed is the key.

I don't see why people are complaining on bittorrent. Last I checked, there was over 280 people seeding the OoT TAS and maybe a dozen downloaders. That should provide insane downloading speed.

AKA

Edit history:

AKA: 2006-08-09 09:49:23 pm

2006-08-09 09:48:09 pm

He's back!

Why can't this run be uploaded to achive.org, FF or Megaupload I really can't stand BitTorrents since I get speeds of 8kb which is unacceptable. Could someone please do it, it would be great tnx.

MissileWaster

Edit history:

MissileWaster: 2006-08-09 10:08:08 pm

2006-08-09 10:06:45 pm

Quote:

I don't see why people are complaining on bittorrent. Last I checked, there was over 280 people seeding the OoT TAS and maybe a dozen downloaders. That should provide insane downloading speed.

Yeah, if you download it later rather than sooner. I was getting 180, but I was one of the first people to download. Took 30 minutes. Then people start saying that they took 10 with 250 Sad

EDIT: AKA, are you actually trying to download it? If no, then do it. It goes hyper fast. Usually I get 4 kb/s. This run has so many seeders it went up to 180. But this run will probably be uploaded to Google Video anyway, so people could watch it there.

Manocheese

2006-08-09 11:08:21 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Quote:

I don't see why people are complaining on bittorrent. Last I checked, there was over 280 people seeding the OoT TAS and maybe a dozen downloaders. That should provide insane downloading speed.

Downloading speed is not a concern. Giving my IP address to hundreds of random people on the Internet is.

YautjaElder

2006-08-09 11:22:30 pm

Speed is the key.

Quote:

Downloading speed is not a concern. Giving my IP address to hundreds of random people on the Internet is.

I don't see how that is a problem either... Never happened anything to me, and I've been using bittorrent A LOT.

But you do what you want.

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2006-08-09 11:52:09 pm

2006-08-09 11:45:39 pm

Zelda Scientist®

And posting on SDA (IP LOGGED) lol. Get a proxy firewall if you are that concerned. Then find a decent local IP. Heck, connect from china if you want. Or check out earlier versions of Open BSD, I heard that OS doesn't use IPs, they have something else they use Huh?

so if anyone was to check for your IP then it would just have 0.0.0.0 or something.

AKA -

Quote:

Acryte, I'm 90% that the blade timers are setup in the exact same way every time the area you're refering to is loaded.

Nah Nah, I know that, I meanhow does that timing work in favor when supersliding, since you move faster... granted if you are waiting quite often it may not be that much faster, however, if you skip through all of them w/ little wait and covered ground faster then that is time saved.

Cevlakohn

Edit history:

Cevlakohn: 2006-08-10 01:59:00 am

2006-08-10 12:38:17 am

The run sounds like it will be pretty impressive, but, TSA, I hope this and your segmented WW run aren't signs of things to come... :-/

(Hint: I'm not a fan of segmented runs)

(Better hint: I hope the run of TP isn't seg-- don't get me wrong, I have much respect for them. But...)

mwl

2006-08-10 01:38:28 am

Quote:

Shadow was definitley the best but really if I was to TAS the game (providing Mupen was more friendly and I had a pad converter) and used the same route and main tricks e.g. cucco jump, no King Zora skip, then I would probally be able to beat that by 5 mins

Yes, we all know you're the master at this game. :worship:

TSA

2006-08-10 02:00:23 am

Retired

Eh...I am so segmenting TP...you know how long the game is gonan be? I don't have 6-10 hours anymore to spend on a game in a row

stanski

2006-08-10 02:02:06 am

wise fwom yo gwave

boo!!! tsa, you're getting soft with old age Tongue

btw, for those complaining about bittorrent, i just got 800 kb/s... beat that!

TSA

2006-08-10 02:03:10 am

Retired

Ok...

Compare my 4:57 run to this run when I finish.

My 4:57 run looks like crap.

KD

Edit history:

KD: 2006-08-10 03:44:25 am

2006-08-10 03:37:48 am

Jealousy™

Quote:

Downloading speed is not a concern. Giving my IP address to hundreds of random people on the Internet is.

This is not a reasonable concern. I am tempted to say "learn about the internet", but it's probably best to explain that your IP address is already known to thousands of random people, and if your computer was really that insecure, you would get hit even if your IP wasn't known to anyone. If you are worried about losing sensitive data, either make sure your computer is secure, or don't connect to the internet at all.

BitTorrent does not provide any information useful to attackers, except the IP address, so they have no reason to choose you to attack. Instead, it's more likely they try a random IP-address, or every IP-address in a certain range.

Quote:

I don't see why people are complaining on bittorrent. Last I checked, there was over 280 people seeding the OoT TAS and maybe a dozen downloaders. That should provide insane downloading speed.

Most people don't like BitTorrent because it requires you to give out high upload speeds in exchange for high download speeds. You help other people, then they help you. In my eyes, this is only fair and optimal use of bandwidth, but it's understandable that people feel this is just another hassle that wasn't there with a direct download.

But with 280 seeds.. With that high seed count maybe you (other people, not Yautja) need to limit your upload speed a bit to allow download to come through (in TCP/IP every packet must be acknowledged, so you are using a small portion of upload for your download as well. If your upload is full, you can hardly download anything, because you can't acknowledge the data that is sent to you). I don't know how strong your connection is and if this is the problem, though. I have never needed to limit my upload speed.

Quote:

Ok...

Compare my 4:57 run to this run when I finish.

My 4:57 run looks like crap.

Didn't you say it took only three tries? Your 4:57 was inspiring because it looked like you were "just" playing the game again. It looked so casual. It made me buy the game because I wanted to play "casually" like that too. A segmented run cannot have this. To be inspiring, everything must look fluent and perfect.

However, contrary to what I said before, I don't think you can call either "crap", even if there are differences. Although you are now going to beat your 4:57 by a few hours, I think you can still be proud of that run.

[quote]
Downloading speed is not a concern. Giving my IP address to hundreds of random people on the Internet is.[/quote]
This is not a reasonable concern. I am tempted to say "learn about the internet", but it's probably best to explain that your IP address is already known to thousands of random people, and if your computer was really that insecure, you would get hit even if your IP wasn't known to anyone. If you are worried about losing sensitive data, either make sure your computer is secure, or don't connect to the internet at all.

BitTorrent does not provide any information useful to attackers, except the IP address, so they have no reason to choose you to attack. Instead, it's more likely they try a random IP-address, or every IP-address in a certain range.

[quote]I don't see why people are complaining on bittorrent. Last I checked, there was over 280 people seeding the OoT TAS and maybe a dozen downloaders. That should provide insane downloading speed.[/quote]
Most people don't like BitTorrent because it requires you to give out high upload speeds in exchange for high download speeds. You help other people, then they help you. In my eyes, this is only fair and optimal use of bandwidth, but it's understandable that people feel this is just another hassle that wasn't there with a direct download.

But with 280 seeds.. With that high seed count maybe you (other people, not Yautja) need to limit your upload speed a bit to allow download to come through (in TCP/IP every packet must be acknowledged, so you are using a small portion of upload for your download as well. If your upload is full, you can hardly download anything, because you can't acknowledge the data that is sent to you). I don't know how strong your connection is and if this is the problem, though. I have never needed to limit my upload speed.

[quote]Ok...

Compare my 4:57 run to this run when I finish.

My 4:57 run looks like crap.[/quote]
Didn't you say it took only three tries? Your 4:57 was inspiring because it looked like you were "just" playing the game again. It looked so casual. It made me buy the game because I wanted to play "casually" like that too. A segmented run cannot have this. To be inspiring, everything must look fluent and perfect.

However, contrary to what I said before, I don't think you can call either "crap", even if there are differences. Although you are now going to beat your 4:57 by a few hours, I think you can still be proud of that run.

notBowen

2006-08-10 04:03:25 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Really that single-segment was one of the best speedruns I've ever watched.

Cevlakohnn

2006-08-10 04:31:55 am

Quote:

Really that single-segment was one of the best speedruns I've ever watched.

Absolutely. The 4:57 run is almost certainly my favorite run ever. A fitting run to an equally great game. But then, I love marathon endurance runs.