OoT [N64] Segmented [Suspended]

2006-06-13 07:44:12 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

So the goron bracelet/silver gauntlets/bombs are necessary for the shadow temple too? Dang.

Actually that might not make much difference. Assuming you have a method for dealing with the lack of longshot, TSA's route through the spirit temple required neither the bow nor the hover boots nor anything bombchus couldn't handle. If its possible to entirely do the SG skip past that one block in the first room without hover boots, (at least you can get on the snake statue, is it possible to get onto that silver block from there using a jump/bombchu?) then the fastest route might be to complete the spirit temple immediately after becoming an adult. You would perform the gauntlet skip, get the mirror shield, skip across from hand to hand, get the gauntlet, skip back across the hands and complete the temple. You could then head to shadow temple and then forest (heck, you could even get the light arrows before the bow that way just to make the run look even stranger).

I hope you guys get the route nailed down before TSA makes his route decision post deku tree. Best of luck to you in feeding king dodongo bombchus.

So the goron bracelet/silver gauntlets/bombs are necessary for the shadow temple too?  Dang.

Actually that might not make much difference.  Assuming you have a method for dealing with the lack of longshot, TSA's route through the spirit temple required neither the bow nor the hover boots nor anything bombchus couldn't handle.  If its possible to entirely do the SG skip past that one block in the first room without hover boots, (at least you can get on the snake statue, is it possible to get onto that silver block from there using a jump/bombchu?)  then the fastest route might be to complete the spirit temple immediately after becoming an adult.  You would perform the gauntlet skip, get the mirror shield, skip across from hand to hand, get the gauntlet, skip back across the hands and complete the temple.  You could then head to shadow temple and then forest (heck, you could even get the light arrows before the bow that way just to make the run look even stranger).

I hope you guys get the route nailed down before TSA makes his route decision post deku tree.  Best of luck to you in feeding king dodongo bombchus.

DK64_MASTER

Edit history:

DK64_MASTER: 2006-06-13 07:46:48 am

2006-06-13 07:46:33 am

Chances are it will be a long time till the fastest route is determined, if ever.

Then there's the 100% route, and the minimalist route (which I'm sure has changed drastically).

Actually I'm personally interested in the new minimalist route the most. Someone (I'm pretty sure it was samsim, who hasn't posted here in SOO long) had the old minimalist route up on his personal site a long time ago.

mwl

Edit history:

mwl: 2006-06-13 08:40:49 am

2006-06-13 08:17:15 am

You guys keep forgetting that you need one of the strength upgrades OR a Bombchu to enter Dodongo's Cavern. That is, unless there's an alternate way to enter that I haven't been informed about.

To skip both strength upgrades, you'll have to go to Spirit before Dodongo's, as all other Bombchu sources require completion of Dodongo's or an Adult Wallet, the latter of which isn't even worth considering. You can't skip child Spirit entirely as Acryte suggested.

Getting the Silver Gauntlets and watching the Nabooru capture cutscene takes a total of four minutes under perfect play, beginning from the Bombchu chest. This means that at most four minutes can be saved from all this, but of course there are other factors like explosive shortages that need to be considered.

The current minimalist route, in the traditional sense of the word, is the same as the proposed TAS route. The run ends with ten out of 24 items in the inventory, four ocarina songs, and three medallions. A Poe boost will be used for Shadow early so that magic beans won't be necessary. I've linked to the route in my signature.

You guys keep forgetting that you need one of the strength upgrades OR a Bombchu to enter Dodongo's Cavern. That is, unless there's an alternate way to enter that I haven't been informed about.

To skip both strength upgrades, you'll have to go to Spirit before Dodongo's, as all other Bombchu sources require completion of Dodongo's or an Adult Wallet, the latter of which isn't even worth considering. You can't skip child Spirit entirely as Acryte suggested.

Getting the Silver Gauntlets and watching the Nabooru capture cutscene takes a total of four minutes under perfect play, beginning from the Bombchu chest. This means that at most four minutes can be saved from all this, but of course there are other factors like explosive shortages that need to be considered.

The current minimalist route, in the traditional sense of the word, is the same as the proposed TAS route. The run ends with ten out of 24 items in the inventory, four ocarina songs, and three medallions. A Poe boost will be used for Shadow early so that magic beans won't be necessary. I've linked to the route in my signature.

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2006-06-13 10:22:06 am

2006-06-13 10:21:22 am

Zelda Scientist®

Question TSA, do you plan on scaling death mountain and entering w/out a bombchu or are you not doing that... because if you do do it... I'd enter DC again and save... not only do you have to climb a hard seam with boulders falling at you (and w/out a hylian shield)... but you also have to corectly position and excecute a decently hard trick.... and failure means redoing the whole DC again, and again, and again.

ProtoMonkey

2006-06-13 12:34:09 pm

I doubt there is any possibility of climbing on KD's extremities. This would require per-polygon collisions on monsters; something even state of the art PC games rarely have. As far as the game physics are concerned, KD is probably just a big box Sad

It'd be really nice to have some timing info up on the current and future segments.

Kazooie

2006-06-13 02:08:24 pm

Zelda Rulez!

I made those glitch videos soon and I have tested that you can blow up that big skull pot with bombchus in shadow temple. I have to make video of it soon Smiley

Now I gonna go feed those bombchus to KD Smiley

Phallosvogel

2006-06-13 02:43:43 pm

I thought this skull-pot is only nescesary in Master Quest? Huh?

Kazooie

Edit history:

Kazooie: 2006-06-13 03:36:34 pm

2006-06-13 02:58:06 pm

Zelda Rulez!

Quote:

I thought this skull-pot is only nescesary in Master Quest? Huh?

There is a skull pot where you need to blow it up to get key. I gannot explain it to you because my english skill not enought good to explain it to you, can someone other to tell him where is that skull pot room in shadow temple?

EDIT

Quote:

I just realized something... In current videos, when jumpslashing during a battle, runners back up, slash, and jumpslash. If you quickly press B and then mash Z and A, you can jumpslash without taking out your sword. If you fail, you'll just swing normally, so there is no time loss.

Manocheese - what you mean by this I don't get it Huh?

AKA

Edit history:

AKA: 2006-06-13 04:01:18 pm

2006-06-13 03:58:51 pm

He's back!

Phallosvogel, the skull pot room is on the left after you cross the invisible moving platforms. I'm not sure how this'll work if KD can be killed with bombchu's you would need to get extra bombchu's and that would mean an early well dive beford DC. You would still need SG for FT which would mean collecting them from ST after the mirror shield. I'm not really sure if this is a big deal, has anyone tried running bombchu's along the wall during KD fight.

I have to admit I was unclear what Mano was saying. I think he was on about the Iron Knuckle which means back flip as Adult to be on the cautious side.

FIERCELINKMASTER

Edit history:

FIERCELINKMASTER: 2006-06-13 05:10:44 pm

2006-06-13 04:55:18 pm

No the Quail is not riding the Q

Quote:

EDIT
Manocheese - what you mean by this I don't get it Huh?

You can take out your sword with a jump attack instead of a normal swing.
Video

Quote:

Phallosvogel, the skull pot room is on the left after you cross the invisible moving platforms.

Someone needs to verify if Adult Link needs the bracelet or not.

mwl

2006-06-13 05:38:52 pm

Quote:

There is a skull pot where you need to blow it up to get key. I gannot explain it to you because my english skill not enought good to explain it to you, can someone other to tell him where is that skull pot room in shadow temple?

That room is needed only for Master Quest.

Kazooie

2006-06-13 05:46:27 pm

Zelda Rulez!

Quote:

That room is needed only for Master Quest.

I remember correctly where it is and you can't beat shadow temple without that room, go beat shadow temple by yourself and see there is a pot room where you need blow it up to get small key.

I can't make videos now, sorry Cry

Quote:

You can take out your sword with a jump attack instead of a normal swing.
Video

So that is it, sorry for bothering you :-/

mwl

Edit history:

mwl: 2006-06-13 06:01:01 pm

2006-06-13 05:52:03 pm

Quote:

I'm not sure how this'll work if KD can be killed with bombchu's you would need to get extra bombchu's and that would mean an early well dive beford DC. You would still need SG for FT which would mean collecting them from ST after the mirror shield. I'm not really sure if this is a big deal, has anyone tried running bombchu's along the wall during KD fight.

Yes, yes, and yes.

Get Silver Gauntlets as Child Link:
Time from Bombchus to Silver Gauntlets (incl. owl dialogue) = 2'38"
Nabooru-capture cutscene = 1'09"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time to get Silver Gauntlets as Child Link = 3'47"

Skip Silver Gauntlets as Child Link:
Time for Bottom of the Well = ~2'00"
Time for walking from Mirror Shield <--> SG = ~15"
Time from walking from KV <--> DC = ~15"
Time spent warping back to Forest w/Minuet = 25" (yes, I timed this myself)
Nabooru-capture cutscene = 1'09" (plays when you get SG regardless of Link's age)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time to skip Silver Gauntlets as Child Link >= 4'04"

From the above calculations, I can say with near-certainty that the SG skip won't be beneficial, at least for a TAS.

I have tried running Bombchus along the wall. Didn't work. You cannot get a Bombchu to run on KD, either.

[quote]I'm not sure how this'll work if KD can be killed with bombchu's you would need to get extra bombchu's and that would mean an early well dive beford DC. You would still need SG for FT which would mean collecting them from ST after the mirror shield. I'm not really sure if this is a big deal, has anyone tried running bombchu's along the wall during KD fight.[/quote]

Yes, yes, and yes.

[b]Get Silver Gauntlets as Child Link:[/b]
Time from Bombchus to Silver Gauntlets (incl. owl dialogue) = 2'38"
Nabooru-capture cutscene = 1'09"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time to get Silver Gauntlets as Child Link = 3'47"

[b]Skip Silver Gauntlets as Child Link:[/b]
Time for Bottom of the Well = ~2'00"
Time for walking from Mirror Shield <--> SG = ~15"
Time from walking from KV <--> DC = ~15"
Time spent warping back to Forest w/Minuet = 25" (yes, I timed this myself)
Nabooru-capture cutscene = 1'09" (plays when you get SG regardless of Link's age)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time to skip Silver Gauntlets as Child Link >= 4'04"

[b]From the above calculations, I can say with near-certainty that the SG skip won't be beneficial, at least for a TAS.[/b]

I have tried running Bombchus along the wall. Didn't work. You cannot get a Bombchu to run on KD, either.

mwl

Edit history:

mwl: 2006-06-13 06:17:14 pm

2006-06-13 05:54:50 pm

Quote:

I remember correctly where it is and you can't beat shadow temple without that room, go beat shadow temple by yourself and see there is a pot room where you need blow it up to get small key.

There's a gold skulltula in that room. Blowing up the pots only yields rupees, not a small key.

petrie911

Edit history:

petrie911: 2006-06-13 06:20:24 pm

2006-06-13 06:05:57 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Adult Link needs the Goron bracelet to move the blocks in the Forest Temple and pick up bushes. Because these are the exact things that the Goron Bracelet allows you to do, I would assume that it is required for Adult Link to pick up Bomb Flowers.

And I also remember a room in the Shadow Temple with a key in a pot.

EDIT: and indeed, at 3:54:50 in the 4:57 run, TSA enters a room where a pot needs to be blown up and blows it up. You do, of course, realize that there are 2 rooms with skull pots to blow up.

SeraphicRadiance

2006-06-13 06:09:00 pm

mwl, there are two rooms with skull pots in them. One room there is a single skull pot with a small key. The second one (in the area where you get the boss key) has three pots with no small key. IIRC, you need the small key from the room with one pot in it.

FIERCELINKMASTER

Edit history:

FIERCELINKMASTER: 2006-06-13 06:12:51 pm

2006-06-13 06:11:36 pm

No the Quail is not riding the Q

Quote:

There's a gold skulltula in that room. Blowing up the pots only yields rupees, not a small key.

You're talking about the room with three revovling pots in it. The one with the key has one pot.

mwl

2006-06-13 06:13:43 pm

Oh, yes. Sorry, it's been a while...

That room can be skipped if someone can get the shortcut to the boat room. Tongue

FIERCELINKMASTER

Edit history:

FIERCELINKMASTER: 2006-06-13 06:21:38 pm

2006-06-13 06:19:07 pm

No the Quail is not riding the Q

Quote:

Oh, yes. Sorry, it's been a while...

Don't worry..It happens to all of us. Tongue

Quote:

Adult Link needs the Goron bracelet to move the blocks in the Forest Temple and pick up bushes. Because these are the exact things that the Goron Bracelet allows you to do, I would assume that it is required for Adult Link to pick up Bomb Flowers.

Verified?

mwl

Edit history:

mwl: 2006-06-13 06:31:17 pm

2006-06-13 06:24:47 pm

Okay, it's been confirmed that Adult Link CANNOT pick up bomb flowers without a strength upgrade.

TSA

2006-06-13 06:39:42 pm

Retired

Man, Link is a wimp.

FIERCELINKMASTER

Edit history:

FIERCELINKMASTER: 2006-06-13 06:59:44 pm

2006-06-13 06:46:18 pm

No the Quail is not riding the Q

Quote:

Man, Link is a wimp.

Well I had a feeling this would happen.

If you get the Silver Gauntlet first.. Child Link has the power of the bracelet even though the bracelet is not on his arm.

So something similar works for Adult Link. (The bracelet is not on his arm)

petrie911

2006-06-14 02:00:16 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Well, I suppose the game just checks your strength upgrades when deciding whether you can lift/push something, and doesn't care whether you're adult or child link. Except there must be extra code to prevent child link from moving silver gauntlet blocks/rocks. How interesting. I wonder if child link could move golden gauntlet pillars...

It is odd that you would need the goron bracelet to move the blocks in forest/shadow, though. After all, you should have it by that point, so that requirement seems unecessary.

StrangenessDSS

Edit history:

StrangenessDSS: 2006-06-14 03:18:50 am

2006-06-14 03:18:36 am

Sleeping Terror

//no item = 0, bracelet = 1, s. gauntlets = 2, etc
link.strength = inventory.strength;
if(link.age == child){
if(inventory.strength > 0) link.strength = 1;
}

Just because Adult Link isn't supposed to need the bracelet to have the strength of Child Link with the bracelet doesn't mean that the programmers foresaw such a thing happening and added extra code to make sure of it.

Acryte

2006-06-14 04:07:46 am

Zelda Scientist®

How goes the segment TSA? Need any help in any parts? I might have little tips.