Okami (PS2)

2009-05-24 04:11:54 am

boss

Quote from BlueGlass:

By the way, how is your NG+ run coming, or are you busy with other stuff right now?

I'm on a short pause before doing a PC game called Aquaria. It seems like I won't have a chance to finally finish an okami ng+ run because after that I'm retiring. Dunno, maybe I just need a longer break from playing games.

BlueGlass

2009-05-27 09:49:25 am

Yep yep yep!

Groobo, about that Oni Island camera glitch, any chance you could provide a video and/or description? I can't seem to figure it out.

Also, I will take this opportunity to announce that I am currently so obsessed with Okami that I will be doing a new game speedrun on the wii version. Hopefully, by the time I'm done, I will be so sick of the game that I'll be able to move on to other things. Very rough estimates put the final time of the run somewhere between four to four-and-a-half hours.

If anyone's interested in the run or has any useful tricks to add that aren't already in the topic, please respond.

groobo

Edit history:

groobo: 2009-05-27 01:11:20 pm

2009-05-27 12:59:35 pm

boss

Face the locked door with the camera and make sure it's above the floor instead of the pit. I'm also pretty sure it can't be touching the floor. Go into brush mode, then start moving your view upwards (so the actual camera moves down) AND force the brush against the bottom of the screen at the same time. It works all the time (on the PS2 version at least). I wonder if there are other uses for this, though IIRC it works only in that single spot.

I guess you should aim for AT LEAST sub 4:15 since it's about the time I had when I did my first NG+ run - without the string of beads, or the kt glitch, or a couple of other new things.

edit: If you have a route planned out or whatever would you mind posting it here? I'm interested in seeing your yen and items plan.

BlueGlass

2009-05-27 04:23:35 pm

Yep yep yep!

Thanks. I'll give it a try and see if I can get the glitch to work.

Also, I'm in the middle of typing up a route (items included) and plan on posting it when I finish, though another test playthrough or two will be needed to confirm how many of what items I'll be buying when.

BlueGlass

2009-05-27 10:04:35 pm

Yep yep yep!

Right. I officially fail at typing up routes. When I first start, it's fun and interesting to see my ideas being written out, but then i kinda get bored and become more sloppy and less detailed. This has now happened to me twice, both times I have tried typing a speedrun route.

Anyway, I'm going to do at least two more test runs to make sure I know the optimal places to buy/get things and everything. I'll probably start the first one tomorrow.

But here's what I typed up as far as a route goes. Hopefully it will make some slight sense.
Abbreviations used (ones that aren't painfully obvious, anyway):
di = divine instrument
ps = power slash
cb = cherry bomb
sfs = steel fist sake
vm = veil of mist
fcgaa = full-charged glaive air attack

(check money for start-orochi)

seg 1

intro cutscenes

cave of nagi
run through cave
rejeuvenation
jump-airdash over last bit of water
power slash
skip both fights

kamiki
check mushi, his mom, and kosumo
sunrise
green imp fight
(kill green imps 1 ps + di)
2 ps
jump down and dig turnips
grab ex slip s
fix watermill
talk to kushi
red imp fight
(ps + di on green imps
di + ink blot on red imps)
ps all three
plot stuff

shinshu field
go to hana valley

hana valley
campfire fight
(1 ps + di on green imps
di + ink blot on red imps)
ps all enemies
run through area
yellow imp fight
1 ps + di on green imps
ink blot + di + ps on yellow imp
run through area
susano cutscenes
roll ball
bloom
run back out
yellow imp fight
same strat as previous
run more
skip campfire fight

shinshu field
bloom sapling from cliff
go to kamiki

kamiki
buy 2 sfs
bloom trees near entrance (ink refill 1?)
save

seg 2

bloom remaining trees (double/triple bloom when possible)
lillypad
leave

shinshu field
get wanted list (avoid demon gate)
wanted monster fight
di + ps red imp
swim across water
killer fish fight
ps + di green imps
ps + killer fish
cherry bomb
dojo demon gate
ink blot + cb + di + ps yellow imps
ps + di green imps
go to agata forest

agata forest
jump off cliff
run to/bloom sapling
waka
sfs + cb (ink refill 1?)
run to kokari
fishing
grab ex slip s on way to tsutsa
enter tsutsa and save

seg 3

tsutsa ruins
run through area
(get incense burner?)
skip lillypad
grab sfs
bud ogre fight
cb + di + bloom + 2 ps + di
cb switch
2 bud ogre fight
double cb + di both + double bloom + 2 double ps + di both
run through area
blockhead
grab ex slip s
wall jump up key room
run through area
3 demon gates, go clockwise
cb + di + bloom + 2ps + di bud ogre
cb red imps
ink blot + cb + di + ps yellow imps
ps + di green imps
ps killer fish
slash pots
down waterfall
bloom grass
vine
leave room from entrance
vine up outside statue
skip blossoms
attach vines to statue top (ink refill 2?)
jump over golden gate
spider queen
2 vines + 3 ex slip s + 2 ps
save

seg 4

agata forest
activate mermaid pool
bridge minigame

taka pass
sell fish (treasure?)
buy 4 meat ex slip m, 2 sfs
run to waka
waka
sfs + cb (equip snarling beast while paused) + di
(ink refill 2 for more cb?)
bloom sapling
mermaid spring demon gate
usual strats for enemies
go to kusa

kusa
run to fuse
di all enemies
cb canine
bamboo canine
bloom canine
vine canine
tei
sfs + cb
save

seg 5

taka pass
go to cutters', wait for night (glass beads?)
crow tengus
ex slip m
go to sasa

sasa sanctuary
go to bathouse
digging game
waterspout
take
sfs + cb +di
warp to agata

agata forest
fill bucket
cutscenes
run to kokari, grab sfs on way
fishing
crescent
ume
sfs + cb
go to merchant
buy 2 gold dust, 2 ex slip l (if money permits), 3 mermaid coins
warp to shinshu

shinshu field
go to kamiki

kamiki
buy 2 ex slip l (if not before)
save

seg 6

hayabusa
sfs + cb + di
leave

shinshu
run to mermaid spring
warp to taka

taka
run to kusa

kusa
buy 2 ex slip l (if not before)
go to fuse
go to gale shrine

gale shrine
chimera fight
di + 3 cb
go to second floor
chimera fight
same as above
go to third floor
galestorm
return to first floor
skip bridge cutscene
grab ex slip s on way to crimson helm
crimson helm
ex slip s + galestorm + ps + 2 ex slip l + di
save

seg 7

kusa
leave

taka
turn to night
warp to shinshu, equip exorcism beads in sub while paused (gold dust ex beads?)

shinshu
run to kamiki

kamiki
buy ? ex slip m (min 2)
cutscene

shinshu
run to moon cave

moon cave
drop down
run to demon gate
black imp
close-range ex beads, floral finisher
go inside
go to kitchen
vine pot from door
grab ex slip m above pot?
ink refill 3 in konohana blossom room
demon gate
ex beads red imps
cb + bloom + ps + ex beads bud ogre, floral finisher
get ogre liver
go to second floor
crack bridge
demon gate
cb red imps
ex beads + di black imp, floral finisher
drain water
black imp fight
same as previous
drop down elevator shaft
skip fight
ice mouth
ex slip m
inferno
loooong elevator ride
demon gate
ex slip m, floral finisher
get lips of ice
go to second floor
ink in bridge
demon gate
ex slip m
get eyeball of fire
get key
(melt chest for ex slip l?)
run through sand room
defuse cb, place on switch (maybe not necessary, further investigation needed)
buy ? ex slip m (need min 4), ex slip l (need min 1)
vine to third floor
light cannon from opposite side
skip black imp fight
demon gate
usual strats for all enemies
get black demon horn
skip black imp fight again
drop to kitchen
give ingredients
ps/airdash bell, (get kutani pottery?)
go to orochi
orochi
part 1
ps head
part 2
fire (cutscene)
fire (cutscene, run to dark)
dark (no bloom)
fire (cutscene, run to dark)
dark (no bloom?)
wind
wind
ex slip l
part 3
fire lunges, run to dark or earth
skip cutscene when fire falls
next three heads do slamming attack
2 ex slip m
next four heads do slaming attack
2 ex slip m
susano part
save

seg 8

kamiki
(sell treasure?) buy ? ex slip m (need min 1), ? ex slip l, 2 sfs?, 5/6 mermaid coins, need 20000 yen remaining

shinshu
warp to taka, gold dust/equip glaive

taka
run to city checkpoint

city checkpoint
plot stuff

ryoshima coast
fight
ex slip m
skip bucket
water sapling from below
bloom sapling
shop? (need min 1 ex slip m, 1 ex slip l)
dojo (holy eagle)
ubume
ex slip l
mermaid spring demon gate
ex slip m
go to sei-an

sei-an
sell fish, buy blinding snow
digging game
fishing
meet rao (get ex slip m?)
go to palace
back to city entrance
sell fish
save

seg 9

ryoshima
go to moon turret
go to sunken ship (get buried ex slip m?)

sunken ship
kill first three ghosts for demon fangs
skip most of the dungeon

ryoshima
get eaten by water dragon
head to sei-an

sei-an
shop (need 2 ex slip m, 1 sfs)

emperor's palace
run through area
thunder doom mirror
ex slip m
run through area
veil of mist
skip wind doom mirror fight
run through area
get hit, use holy bone s
get inkfinity stone
run to blight
blight
vm
stun
vm + sfs + full-charge glaive air attack
free kaguya
save

seg 10

emperor's palace
buy peace bell
leave

sei-an
warp to sasa

sasa
use inkfinity stone just before digging game
warp to sei-an, equip fire tablet and peace bell, life beads to sub

sei-an
meet himiko
warp to ryoshima

ryoshima
go to north ryoshima
wind nose
ex slip m
shop (need 1 fish, 1 ex slip m, 5 ex slip l, 1 sfs)
urashima
sunrise
go to catcall

catcall
poltregeist
ex slip m
climb tower
catwalk
warp to ryoshima

ryoshima
go to north ryoshima

north ryoshima
go to watcher's cape
blue cyclops
ex slip l + glaive
open whirlpool
go to dragonian kingdom

dragonian
save

seg 11
go to water dragon

water dragon
get ex slip m?
tube foxes
3 ex slip l
leave

go to rao
rao
ex slip l
sfs + vm + full charge glaive air attack

go to oni island
shop (sei-an) (need min 2 ex slip m, 3 ex slip l), buy (2?) gold dust

oni island
onis
2 ex slip l + 1 ex slip m
poltregeists
1 ex slip m
shop (need min 2 ex slip m, 1 ex slip l)
race tobi a lot
ex slip l + glaive on blue cyclops
ex slip m on three watchamacallits
thunderstorm
get ex slip l from chest?
shop (mass ex slip l)
camera-through-wall glitch
run through area
skip stuff
ninetails
dodge attack
dodge attack
ts
wait
2 ex slip l
glaive last fox
dodge attack
dodge attack
ts
wait
2 ex slip l
4 ex slip l + 1 ex slip m
save

seg 12

shop spots for kamui section need deciding (29 ex slip ls, 9 ex slip ms, 1 sfs needed before ark)

north ryoshima
warp to shinshu (n ryo or ryo mermaid spring faster?), gold dust/equip kusanagi

shinshu
go to kamui

I'm not going to bother doing a detailed route for this part, just list the fights

namahages (1 l)
oki (3 ls, 1 m)
bull charger (1 l)
nagi (l, sfs,vm, full-charge glaive air attack, repeat stun with ex slip ls as needed)
clay soliers (1 m)
dogus (3 l, 1 m)
orochi (1 l, 1 m on bell)
(1 l, 1 m on four heads)
great tengu (1 l)
poltregeist (1 m)
silver owl (6 l, 1 m)
great tengu (1 l)
lechku and nechku (6 l, 1 m) (gold dust/equip thunder blade)

save before yoshpet?
before spirit gate
mid wawku
post-wawku (last save)

yamato refights (not in order)
spider queen
3 vine + ex slip ls and one m
crimson helm
ex slip l
galestorm
sfs + full-charge glaive air attacks
blight
vm
sfs + full-charge glaive air attacks
ninetails
same, just use less ex slip ls and no ms
orochi
exact same

yami
phase 1:
ex slip ls + ps
phase 2:
ex slip ls to crescent?
sfs + fcgaa?
phase 3:
ex slip ls
ps fire?
phase 4:
ex slip ls to blizzard
knock yami over (blizzard + ps)
sfs + vm + fcgaa
really awesome part
sunrise
steel fist sake
veil of mist
fully-charged glaive air attacks

Right.  I officially fail at typing up routes.  When I first start, it's fun and interesting to see my ideas being written out, but then i kinda get bored and become more sloppy and less detailed.  This has now happened to me twice, both times I have tried typing a speedrun route.

Anyway, I'm going to do at least two more test runs to make sure I know the optimal places to buy/get things and everything.  I'll probably start the first one tomorrow.

But here's what I typed up as far as a route goes.  Hopefully it will make some slight sense.
Abbreviations used (ones that aren't painfully obvious, anyway):
di = divine instrument
ps = power slash
cb = cherry bomb
sfs = steel fist sake
vm = veil of mist
fcgaa = full-charged glaive air attack

(check money for start-orochi)

seg 1

intro cutscenes

cave of nagi
	run through cave
	rejeuvenation
	jump-airdash over last bit of water
	power slash
	skip both fights

kamiki
	check mushi, his mom, and kosumo
	sunrise
	green imp fight
		(kill green imps 1 ps + di)
		2 ps
	jump down and dig turnips
	grab ex slip s
	fix watermill
	talk to kushi
	red imp fight
		(ps + di on green imps
		di + ink blot on red imps)
		ps all three
	plot stuff

shinshu field
	go to hana valley

hana valley
	campfire fight
		(1 ps + di on green imps
		di + ink blot on red imps)
		ps all enemies
	run through area
	yellow imp fight
		1 ps + di on green imps
		ink blot + di + ps on yellow imp
	run through area
	susano cutscenes	
	roll ball
	bloom
	run back out
	yellow imp fight
		same strat as previous
	run more
	skip campfire fight

shinshu field
	bloom sapling from cliff
	go to kamiki

kamiki
	buy 2 sfs
	bloom trees near entrance (ink refill 1?)
	save

seg 2

bloom remaining trees  (double/triple bloom when possible)
	lillypad
	leave

shinshu field
	get wanted list (avoid demon gate)
	wanted monster fight
		di + ps red imp
	swim across water
	killer fish fight
		ps  + di green imps
		ps +  killer fish
	cherry bomb
	dojo demon gate
		ink blot + cb + di + ps yellow imps
		ps + di green imps
	go to agata forest

agata forest
	jump off cliff
	run to/bloom sapling
	waka
		sfs + cb (ink refill 1?)
	run to kokari
	fishing
	grab ex slip s on way to tsutsa
	enter tsutsa and save

seg 3

tsutsa ruins
	run through area
	(get incense burner?)
	skip lillypad
	grab sfs
	bud ogre fight
		cb + di + bloom + 2 ps + di
	cb switch
	2 bud ogre fight
		double cb + di both + double bloom + 2 double ps + di both
	run through area
	blockhead
	grab ex slip s
	wall jump up key room
	run through area
	3 demon gates, go clockwise
		cb + di + bloom + 2ps + di bud ogre
		cb red imps
		ink blot +  cb + di + ps yellow imps
		ps + di green imps
		ps killer fish
	slash pots
	down waterfall
	bloom grass
	vine
	leave room from entrance
	vine up outside statue
	skip blossoms
	attach vines to statue top (ink refill 2?)
	jump over golden gate
	spider queen
		2 vines + 3 ex slip s + 2 ps
	save

seg 4

agata forest
	activate mermaid pool
	bridge minigame

taka pass
	sell fish (treasure?)
	buy 4 meat ex slip m, 2 sfs
	run to waka
	waka
		sfs + cb (equip snarling beast while paused) + di
		(ink refill 2 for more cb?)
	bloom sapling
	mermaid spring demon gate
		usual strats for enemies
	go to kusa

kusa
	run to fuse
		di all enemies
	cb canine
	bamboo canine
	bloom canine
	vine canine
	tei
		sfs + cb
	save

seg 5

taka pass
	go to cutters', wait for night (glass beads?)
	crow tengus
		ex slip m
	go to sasa

sasa sanctuary
	go to bathouse
	digging game
	waterspout
	take
	sfs + cb +di
	warp to agata

agata forest
	fill bucket
	cutscenes
	run to kokari, grab sfs on way
	fishing
	crescent
	ume
		sfs + cb
	go to merchant
	buy 2 gold dust, 2 ex slip l (if money permits), 3 mermaid coins
	warp to shinshu

shinshu field
	go to kamiki

kamiki
	buy 2 ex slip l (if not before)
	save

seg 6

hayabusa
		sfs + cb + di
	leave

shinshu
	run to mermaid spring
	warp to taka

taka
	run to kusa

kusa
	buy 2 ex slip l (if not before)
	go to fuse
	go to gale shrine

gale shrine
	chimera fight
		di + 3 cb
	go to second floor
	chimera fight
		same as above
	go to third floor
	galestorm
	return to first floor
	skip bridge cutscene
	grab ex slip s on way to crimson helm
	crimson helm
		ex slip s + galestorm + ps + 2 ex slip l + di
	save

seg 7

kusa
	leave

taka
	turn to night
	warp to shinshu, equip exorcism beads in sub while paused (gold dust ex beads?)

shinshu
	run to kamiki

kamiki
	buy ? ex slip m (min 2)
	cutscene

shinshu
	run to moon cave

moon cave
	drop down
	run to demon gate
	black imp
		close-range ex beads, floral finisher
	go inside
	go to kitchen
	vine pot from door
	grab ex slip m above pot?
	ink refill 3 in konohana blossom room
	demon gate
		ex beads red imps
		cb + bloom + ps + ex beads bud ogre, floral finisher
	get ogre liver
	go to second floor
	crack bridge
	demon gate
		cb red imps
		ex beads + di black imp, floral finisher
	drain water
	black imp fight
		same as previous
	drop down elevator shaft
	skip fight
	ice mouth
		ex slip m
	inferno
	loooong elevator ride
	demon gate
		ex slip m, floral finisher
	get lips of ice
	go to second floor
	ink in bridge
	demon gate
		ex slip m
	get eyeball of fire
	get key
	(melt chest for ex slip l?)
	run through sand room
	defuse cb, place on switch (maybe not necessary, further investigation needed)
	buy ? ex slip m (need min 4), ex slip l (need min 1)
	vine to third floor
	light cannon from opposite side
	skip black imp fight
	demon gate
		usual strats for all enemies
	get black demon horn
	skip black imp fight again
	drop to kitchen
	give ingredients
	ps/airdash bell, (get kutani pottery?)
	go to orochi
	orochi
	part 1
		ps head
	part 2
		fire (cutscene)
		fire (cutscene, run to dark)
		dark (no bloom)
		fire (cutscene, run to dark)
		dark (no bloom?)
		wind
		wind
		ex slip l
	part 3
		fire lunges, run to dark or earth
		skip cutscene when fire falls
		next three heads do slamming attack
		2 ex slip m
		next four heads do slaming attack
		2 ex slip m
	susano part
	save

seg 8

kamiki
	(sell treasure?) buy ? ex slip m (need min 1), ? ex slip l, 2 sfs?, 5/6 mermaid coins, need 20000 yen remaining

shinshu
	warp to taka, gold dust/equip glaive

taka
	run to city checkpoint

city checkpoint
	plot stuff

ryoshima coast
	fight
		ex slip m
	skip bucket
	water sapling from below
	bloom sapling
	shop? (need min 1 ex slip m, 1 ex slip l)
	dojo (holy eagle)
	ubume
		ex slip l
	mermaid spring demon gate
		ex slip m
	go to sei-an

sei-an
	sell fish, buy blinding snow
	digging game
	fishing
	meet rao (get ex slip m?)
	go to palace
	back to city entrance
	sell fish
	save

seg 9

ryoshima
	go to moon turret
	go to sunken ship (get buried ex slip m?)

sunken ship
	kill first three ghosts for demon fangs
	skip most of the dungeon

ryoshima
	get eaten by water dragon
	head to sei-an

sei-an
	shop (need 2 ex slip m, 1 sfs)

emperor's palace
	run through area
	thunder doom mirror
		ex slip m
	run through area
	veil of mist
	skip wind doom mirror fight
	run through area
	get hit, use holy bone s
	get inkfinity stone
	run to blight
	blight
		vm
		stun
		vm + sfs + full-charge glaive air attack
	free kaguya
	save

seg 10

emperor's palace
	buy peace bell
	leave

sei-an
	warp to sasa

sasa
	use inkfinity stone just before digging game
	warp to sei-an, equip fire tablet and peace bell, life beads to sub
	
sei-an
	meet himiko
	warp to ryoshima

ryoshima
	go to north ryoshima
	wind nose
		ex slip m
	shop (need 1 fish, 1 ex slip m, 5 ex slip l, 1 sfs)
	urashima
	sunrise
	go to catcall

catcall
	poltregeist
		ex slip m
	climb tower
	catwalk
	warp to ryoshima

ryoshima
	go to north ryoshima

north ryoshima
	go to watcher's cape
	blue cyclops
		ex slip l + glaive
	open whirlpool
	go to dragonian kingdom

dragonian
	save

seg 11
	go to water dragon

water dragon
	get ex slip m?
	tube foxes
		3 ex slip l
	leave

go to rao
	rao
		ex slip l
		sfs + vm + full charge glaive air attack

go to oni island
	shop (sei-an) (need min 2 ex slip m, 3 ex slip l), buy (2?) gold dust

oni island
	onis
		2 ex slip l + 1 ex slip m
	poltregeists
		1 ex slip m
	shop (need min 2 ex slip m, 1 ex slip l)
	race tobi a lot
	ex slip l + glaive on blue cyclops
	ex slip m on three watchamacallits
	thunderstorm
	get ex slip l from chest?
	shop (mass ex slip l)
	camera-through-wall glitch
	run through area
	skip stuff
	ninetails
		dodge attack
		dodge attack
		ts
		wait
		2 ex slip l
		glaive last fox
		dodge attack
		dodge attack
		ts
		wait
		2 ex slip l
		4 ex slip l + 1 ex slip m
	save

seg 12

shop spots for kamui section need deciding (29 ex slip ls,  9 ex slip ms, 1 sfs needed before ark)

north ryoshima
	warp to shinshu (n ryo or ryo mermaid spring faster?), gold dust/equip kusanagi

shinshu
	go to kamui

I'm not going to bother doing a detailed route for this part, just list the fights

namahages (1 l)
oki (3 ls, 1 m)
bull charger (1 l)
nagi (l, sfs,vm, full-charge glaive air attack, repeat stun with ex slip ls as needed)
clay soliers (1 m)
dogus (3 l, 1 m)
orochi (1 l, 1 m on bell)
	(1 l, 1 m on four heads)
great tengu (1 l)
poltregeist (1 m)
silver owl (6 l, 1 m)
great tengu (1 l)
lechku and nechku (6 l, 1 m) (gold dust/equip thunder blade)

save	before yoshpet?
	before spirit gate
	mid wawku
	post-wawku (last save)

yamato refights (not in order)
	spider queen
		3 vine + ex slip ls and one m
	crimson helm
		ex slip l
		galestorm
		sfs + full-charge glaive air attacks
	blight
		vm
		sfs + full-charge glaive air attacks
	ninetails
		same, just use less ex slip ls and no ms
	orochi
		exact same

yami
	phase 1:
		ex slip ls + ps
	phase 2:
		ex slip ls to crescent?
		sfs + fcgaa?
	phase 3:
		ex slip ls
		ps fire?
	phase 4:
		ex slip ls to blizzard
		knock yami over (blizzard + ps)
		sfs + vm + fcgaa
	really awesome part
		sunrise
		steel fist sake
		veil of mist
		fully-charged glaive air attacks

groobo

2009-05-28 09:08:40 am

boss

Some sugestions:

- Why end the first segment after the first set of trees? You'd have to bloom them, run all the way back to the save point, then run back to the area where the lady with the laundry is.

- Do the digging game in the second segment - bloom makes the whole thing a lot faster.

- In TR after the three demon gates but before slashing the pots, remember about the cutscene skip! On the PS2 version there's a two-three frame window where you can press start to skip it - I'd guess it's the same on the wii.

- TR again - from my tests it turns out that jumping above the golden gate is actually slower.

- In segment 5 if it's early enough you could run around collecting treasures a bit. I dunno the exact locations, but there's one on top of the cutters house (also depends on if you actually need extra yen or not - I guess yes if you want to spam large slips later on).

- I'd advise you to test if the two gold dusts are really worth it. I'd bet my money on more large slips instead.

- Why not bloom dark orochi's attack? You can't use your brush for some time if the bud triggers and IIRC it's long enough for you to miss watering the other head once. Correct me if I'm wrong.

- Don't shop at RC (ryoshima coast)! You'll build maximum speed at the point where the shop is - don't put it to waste. If you really need to use a shop either do it earlier or in sei'an.

- I think using the corner glitch when going for the dojo is faster than using a lilipad, since you basically get out of the water in a perfect line and get to keep all your speed.

- I can't see your praise upgrade plan - remember that you have to get at least one pourse upgrade to purchase blinding snow. I suggest putting all the rest into ink upgrades.

- You should really consider getting some treasures not-so-really on the way to sell - you'll need that money for slip-whoring. From the top of my head: there's a vengeance slip (worth 10k IIRC) somewhere near the digging game in sei'an and there's another one of those burried near that house you're passing by on the route from rao to the emperor.

- End segment 8 in the sunken ship - you'll see why.

- When getting the mallet, ps the chest some seconds after orochi appears (or was it CH?) instead of bumping into it.

- You can drop down to the emperor's insides earlier, from a different path - IIRC.

- You don't need to dodge any of 9~'s attacks. If you get too close - he attacks. If you, without getting too close, hit him with a rosary as a sub and move back a bit - he'll pull out his sword right away.

- NRC/RC to SF warp. Go with NRC, big time.

- Taking care of yami's each form but the last one all the way with slips is faster than what you do for phase 2 and 4 since these are the last techniques you get from him and at this point he's only a few slips away from the next form.

- I also wonder if msit is really needed for the last form. It's a OHKO with the string of beads, without the best glaive or a sfs.

I hope you'll release wips. I could give some pointers about movement and general stuff if you don't know absolutely everything about those things already ;).

Some sugestions:

- Why end the first segment after the first set of trees? You'd have to bloom them, run all the way back to the save point, then run back to the area where the lady with the laundry is.

- Do the digging game in the second segment - bloom makes the whole thing a lot faster.

- In TR after the three demon gates but before slashing the pots, remember about the cutscene skip! On the PS2 version there's a two-three frame window where you can press start to skip it - I'd guess it's the same on the wii.

- TR again - from my tests it turns out that jumping above the golden gate is actually slower.

- In segment 5 if it's early enough you could run around collecting treasures a bit. I dunno the exact locations, but there's one on top of the cutters house (also depends on if you actually need extra yen or not - I guess yes if you want to spam large slips later on).

- I'd advise you to test if the two gold dusts are really worth it. I'd bet my money on more large slips instead.

- Why not bloom dark orochi's attack? You can't use your brush for some time if the bud triggers and IIRC it's long enough for you to miss watering the other head once. Correct me if I'm wrong.

- Don't shop at RC (ryoshima coast)! You'll build maximum speed at the point where the shop is - don't put it to waste. If you really need to use a shop either do it earlier or in sei'an.

- I think using the corner glitch when going for the dojo is faster than using a lilipad, since you basically get out of the water in a perfect line and get to keep all your speed.

- I can't see your praise upgrade plan - remember that you have to get at least one pourse upgrade to purchase blinding snow. I suggest putting all the rest into ink upgrades.

- You should really consider getting some treasures not-so-really on the way to sell - you'll need that money for slip-whoring. From the top of my head: there's a vengeance slip (worth 10k IIRC) somewhere near the digging game in sei'an and there's another one of those burried near that house you're passing by on the route from rao to the emperor.

- End segment 8 in the sunken ship - you'll see why.

- When getting the mallet, ps the chest some seconds after orochi appears (or was it CH?) instead of bumping into it.

- You can drop down to the emperor's insides earlier, from a different path - IIRC.

- You don't need to dodge any of 9~'s attacks. If you get too close - he attacks. If you, without getting too close, hit him with a rosary as a sub and move back a bit - he'll pull out his sword right away.

- NRC/RC to SF warp. Go with NRC, big time.

- Taking care of yami's each form but the last one all the way with slips is faster than what you do for phase 2 and 4 since these are the last techniques you get from him and at this point he's only a few slips away from the next form.

- I also wonder if msit is really needed for the last form. It's a OHKO with the string of beads, without the best glaive or a sfs.

I hope you'll release wips. I could give some pointers about movement and general stuff if you don't know absolutely everything about those things already ;).

BlueGlass

Edit history:

BlueGlass: 2009-05-28 03:55:21 pm

2009-05-28 12:01:22 pm

Yep yep yep!

Quote from groobo:

Some sugestions:

- Why end the first segment after the first set of trees? You'd have to bloom them, run all the way back to the save point, then run back to the area where the lady with the laundry is.

During that part, I'm practically standing on top of the origin mirror at one point. It makes no sense not to save there.

Quote:

- Do the digging game in the second segment - bloom makes the whole thing a lot faster.

After getting sunrise in segment 1, I can jump straight off the cliff into the turnip field and start digging. Blotting the lady with ink only needs to be done about 5-6 times. I can get the ex slip right afterwards without having to go very far out of my way. I'll run some tests to be sure which one is faster.

Doing the game in segment 2, while making trees is technically a bit faster than ink blotting, the time difference is greatly reduced on th wii version, I'd have to watch my ink supply, I'd lose my running speed, and the ex slip would be several more seconds out of my way.

[quite]- In TR after the three demon gates but before slashing the pots, remember about the cutscene skip! On the PS2 version there's a two-three frame window where you can press start to skip it - I'd guess it's the same on the wii.[/quote]Didn't know about that. If it's in the topic somewhere, I must have missed it, and if it was in one of your ng+ runs, those aren't available for viewing. I'll definitely check to see if it works on wii.

Quote:

- TR again - from my tests it turns out that jumping above the golden gate is actually slower.

Thanks, I'll remember that.

Quote:

- In segment 5 if it's early enough you could run around collecting treasures a bit. I dunno the exact locations, but there's one on top of the cutters house (also depends on if you actually need extra yen or not - I guess yes if you want to spam large slips later on).

I think I actually mention the glass beads in my route as a possible grab. I can't remember any other available treasures off the top of my head, but IIRC most of the stuff available at that point isn't worth enough to actually affect my yen amount.

Quote:

- I'd advise you to test if the two gold dusts are really worth it. I'd bet my money on more large slips instead.

I'm fairly certain gold dust gives enough of a power increase to speed up Rao, Nagi, Yami, and possibly some of the refights. The two gold dusts in Agata are the same price as one ex slip l. I'll test this too, though, just to be sure.

Quote:

- Why not bloom dark orochi's attack? You can't use your brush for some time if the bud triggers and IIRC it's long enough for you to miss watering the other head once. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The fire head's attack is long enough that the dark mist disappears before the roar. I'll need to test, but I think for the wind head, blooming them takes about the same amount of extra time as waiting for the mist to vanish during the roar.

Quote:

- Don't shop at RC (ryoshima coast)! You'll build maximum speed at the point where the shop is - don't put it to waste. If you really need to use a shop either do it earlier or in sei'an.

Like I said in the route, I still need to find the optimal shopping spots. Ryoshima Coast wasn't a serious consideration, I just put it in there because I seem to remember stopping there during one of my test runs.

Quote:

- I think using the corner glitch when going for the dojo is faster than using a lilipad, since you basically get out of the water in a perfect line and get to keep all your speed.

I'll test it. Any chance you could provide a video or description, though? I don't quite remember it very well from watching the posted segments of your ng+ about two years ago.

Quote:

- I can't see your praise upgrade plan - remember that you have to get at least one pourse upgrade to purchase blinding snow. I suggest putting all the rest into ink upgrades.

First ink upgrade is either during blooming in Kamiki or during Waka 1. I can't remember if Waka takes four or five cherry bombs. Four and I can upgrade in Kamiki, five, and I'll have to wait.

Second depends on wether less time is lost waiting for a refill while vining or having to cherry bomb less frequently during Waka 2.

Third is to allow me an extra vine usage in the Konohana blossom room in Moon Cave.

Purse upgrade comes in whenever I have enough praise and am at the pause screen before Oni Island. Blinding snow is only 5000, no purse upgrade needed to get it.

Quote:

- You should really consider getting some treasures not-so-really on the way to sell - you'll need that money for slip-whoring. From the top of my head: there's a vengeance slip (worth 10k IIRC) somewhere near the digging game in sei'an and there's another one of those burried near that house you're passing by on the route from rao to the emperor.

Vengance slips sell for 5000 each. The only treasure that might actually be worth getting would be the Kutani pottery in Moon Cave. It sells for 12000 at a point when I'm low on money. Pre-Orochi, most treasures don't sell for enough to be worthwhile, and post-Orochi, there's enough money that it's not a serious issue.

Quote:

- End segment 8 in the sunken ship - you'll see why.

To be totally honest, I forgot there was an origin mirror at the entrance. I had thought the closest save point was the one in sei-an. I'll change that.

Quote:

- When getting the mallet, ps the chest some seconds after orochi appears (or was it CH?) instead of bumping into it.

I know, just forgot to mention it. And it's Crimson Helm.

Quote:

- You can drop down to the emperor's insides earlier, from a different path - IIRC.

Seriously? Awesome. I'll definitely check that out.

Quote:

- You don't need to dodge any of 9~'s attacks. If you get too close - he attacks. If you, without getting too close, hit him with a rosary as a sub and move back a bit - he'll pull out his sword right away.

Even more awesome. No need to luck manipulate into attacking quickly.

Quote:

- NRC/RC to SF warp. Go with NRC, big time.

You positive? They're both about the same distance, IIRC. Of course, NRC takes you right by a shop, but you have to lose speed to use it. I'm still going to test, just in case.

Quote:

- Taking care of yami's each form but the last one all the way with slips is faster than what you do for phase 2 and 4 since these are the last techniques you get from him and at this point he's only a few slips away from the next form.

Phase 2, Crescent comes in at (IIRC) a bit over one-third life and opens up the core for nice direct attack. I think ex slips would be about the same amount of time in this part, maybe a bit faster.

Phase 4, Blizzard comes in at about half life, stunning him only takes a couple seconds, and I'm pretty sure the glaive is ever so slightly faster here.

Anyway, the real point of this, as I forgot to mention in the route, was to avoid an extra trip to Marco after the refights. That's about 20-30 seconds. I'll test just to be sure.

Quote:

- I also wonder if msit is really needed for the last form. It's a OHKO with the string of beads, without the best glaive or a sfs.

I'll test. Might not be necessary, but Yami recovers pretty quickly without it. I don't recall if there's time for the 2-3 attacks necessary.

Quote:

I hope you'll release wips. I could give some pointers about movement and general stuff if you don't know absolutely everything about those things already ;).

Movement isn't too difficult for the most part. Turning the camera horizontally allows for more turning in running direction while still working towards top speed. Turning the camera vertically causes problems. Always jump just before the top of steep slopes. Some spots are wierd and Ammy gets caught up on absolutely nothing *cough Yoshpet and leaving the bamboo grove in Sasa cough*.

As for WIPs, I'll think about it.

Thanks for being sohelpful and supportive.

edit: Started a test run and have gone up through Spider Queen. Turnip digging in segment 1 is faster. Ink blotting her is the best wy to do it, as the effects last at least twice as long as anything else. Also, what the heck is up with the way red imps drop money? I thought I had it figured out (kill them without slashing the lute strings and they drop the max amount) but apparently not.

First ink upgrade gets used in Kamiki. Waka will fall to four sfs cherry bombs. Also, if it turns out I need the money, there's a lacquerware set (2500) right on the way to Koakri.

The ex slip in Tsuta takes a whopping fifteen seconds to get. Fifteen. Not worth it. Ink upgrade 2 will be during Spider Queen (unless two ex slips and three power slashes are enough to take her out, in which case the refill will come during vining, I didn't think to check).

As for the pots cutscene skip, I tried a few times but didn't succeed, though that could have just been bad luck. There's this sort of flash of something for just an instant between sun-drawing cutscene and the pots cutscene. I'm assuming that's the moment that lets you skip. I'll put more effort into it on my next test run. Also, if the window for the skip really is so small, I'll probably move the end of segment two from Tsuta entrance to the room before the pots.

Finally, fishing is way too random to be fun in a speedrun.

edit 2: Finished up through Orochi in the test run. Looks like I'll need to grab both the ex slips m and l in Moon Cave. I skipped the l and turned up about 5000 yen short of what I needed for Ryoshima.

Shopping locations for the first part of the run are:
Kamiki after blooming Shinshu (2 sfs)
Taka on entering (2 sfs, 1 ex slip m)
Agata to mermaid spring (3 mermaid coins, 2 gold dust, 2 ex slip l)
Kamiki before Orochi cutscene (2 ex slip m)
Moon Cave main room imp (4 ex slip m)
Kamiki after Orochi (1 mermaid coin, 2 ex slip m, 1 ex slip l)

[quote="groobo"]
Some sugestions:

- Why end the first segment after the first set of trees? You'd have to bloom them, run all the way back to the save point, then run back to the area where the lady with the laundry is.[/quote]During that part, I'm practically standing on top of the origin mirror at one point.  It makes no sense not to save there.

[quote]- Do the digging game in the second segment - bloom makes the whole thing a lot faster.[/quote]After getting sunrise in segment 1, I can jump straight off the cliff into the turnip field and start digging.  Blotting the lady with ink only needs to be done about 5-6 times.  I can get the ex slip right afterwards without having to go very far out of my way.  I'll run some tests to be sure which one is faster.

Doing the game in segment 2, while making trees is technically a bit faster than ink blotting, the time difference is greatly reduced on th wii version, I'd have to watch my ink supply, I'd lose my running speed, and the ex slip would be several more seconds out of my way.

[quite]- In TR after the three demon gates but before slashing the pots, remember about the cutscene skip! On the PS2 version there's a two-three frame window where you can press start to skip it - I'd guess it's the same on the wii.[/quote]Didn't know about that.  If it's in the topic somewhere, I must have missed it, and if it was in one of your ng+ runs, those aren't available for viewing.  I'll definitely check to see if it works on wii.

[quote]- TR again - from my tests it turns out that jumping above the golden gate is actually slower.[/quote]Thanks, I'll remember that.

[quote]- In segment 5 if it's early enough you could run around collecting treasures a bit. I dunno the exact locations, but there's one on top of the cutters house (also depends on if you actually need extra yen or not - I guess yes if you want to spam large slips later on).[/quote]I think I actually mention the glass beads in my route as a possible grab.  I can't remember any other available treasures off the top of my head, but IIRC most of the stuff available at that point isn't worth enough to actually affect my yen amount.

[quote]- I'd advise you to test if the two gold dusts are really worth it. I'd bet my money on more large slips instead.[/quote]I'm fairly certain gold dust gives enough of a power increase to speed up Rao, Nagi, Yami, and possibly some of the refights.  The two gold dusts in Agata are the same price as one ex slip l.  I'll test this too, though, just to be sure.

[quote]- Why not bloom dark orochi's attack? You can't use your brush for some time if the bud triggers and IIRC it's long enough for you to miss watering the other head once. Correct me if I'm wrong.[/quote]The fire head's attack is long enough that the dark mist disappears before the roar.  I'll need to test, but I think for the wind head, blooming them takes about the same amount of extra time as waiting for the mist to vanish during the roar.

[quote]- Don't shop at RC (ryoshima coast)! You'll build maximum speed at the point where the shop is - don't put it to waste. If you really need to use a shop either do it earlier or in sei'an.[/quote]Like I said in the route, I still need to find the optimal shopping spots.  Ryoshima Coast wasn't a serious consideration, I just put it in there because I seem to remember stopping there during one of my test runs.

[quote]- I think using the corner glitch when going for the dojo is faster than using a lilipad, since you basically get out of the water in a perfect line and get to keep all your speed.[/quote]I'll test it.  Any chance you could provide a video or description, though?  I don't quite remember it very well from watching the posted segments of your ng+ about two years ago.

[quote]- I can't see your praise upgrade plan - remember that you have to get at least one pourse upgrade to purchase blinding snow. I suggest putting all the rest into ink upgrades.[/quote]First ink upgrade is either during blooming in Kamiki or during Waka 1.  I can't remember if Waka takes four or five cherry bombs.  Four and I can upgrade in Kamiki, five, and I'll have to wait.

Second depends on wether less time is lost waiting for a refill while vining or having to cherry bomb less frequently during Waka 2.

Third is to allow me an extra vine usage in the Konohana blossom room in Moon Cave.

Purse upgrade comes in whenever I have enough praise and am at the pause screen before Oni Island.  Blinding snow is only 5000, no purse upgrade needed to get it.

[quote]- You should really consider getting some treasures not-so-really on the way to sell - you'll need that money for slip-whoring. From the top of my head: there's a vengeance slip (worth 10k IIRC) somewhere near the digging game in sei'an and there's another one of those burried near that house you're passing by on the route from rao to the emperor.[/quote]  Vengance slips sell for 5000 each.  The only treasure that might actually be worth getting would be the Kutani pottery in Moon Cave.  It sells for 12000 at a point when I'm low on money.  Pre-Orochi, most treasures don't sell for enough to be worthwhile, and post-Orochi, there's enough money that it's not a serious issue.

[quote]- End segment 8 in the sunken ship - you'll see why.[/quote]To be totally honest, I forgot there was an origin mirror at the entrance.  I had thought the closest save point was the one in sei-an.  I'll change that.

[quote]- When getting the mallet, ps the chest some seconds after orochi appears (or was it CH?) instead of bumping into it.[/quote]  I know, just forgot to mention it.  And it's Crimson Helm.

[quote]- You can drop down to the emperor's insides earlier, from a different path - IIRC.[/quote]Seriously?  Awesome.  I'll definitely check that out.

[quote]- You don't need to dodge any of 9~'s attacks. If you get too close - he attacks. If you, without getting too close, hit him with a rosary as a sub and move back a bit - he'll pull out his sword right away.[/quote]Even more awesome.  No need to luck manipulate into attacking quickly.

[quote]- NRC/RC to SF warp. Go with NRC, big time.[/quote]You positive?  They're both about the same distance, IIRC.  Of course, NRC takes you right by a shop, but you have to lose speed to use it.  I'm still going to test, just in case.

[quote]- Taking care of yami's each form but the last one all the way with slips is faster than what you do for phase 2 and 4 since these are the last techniques you get from him and at this point he's only a few slips away from the next form.[/quote]Phase 2, Crescent comes in at (IIRC) a bit over one-third life and opens up the core for nice direct attack.  I think ex slips would be about the same amount of time in this part, maybe a bit faster.

Phase 4, Blizzard comes in at about half life, stunning him only takes a couple seconds, and I'm pretty sure the glaive is ever so slightly faster here.

Anyway, the real point of this, as I forgot to mention in the route, was to avoid an extra trip to Marco after the refights.  That's about 20-30 seconds.  I'll test just to be sure.

[quote]- I also wonder if msit is really needed for the last form. It's a OHKO with the string of beads, without the best glaive or a sfs.[/quote]I'll test.  Might not be necessary, but Yami recovers pretty quickly without it.  I don't recall if there's time for the 2-3 attacks necessary.

[quote]I hope you'll release wips. I could give some pointers about movement and general stuff if you don't know absolutely everything about those things already ;).
[/quote]Movement isn't too difficult for the most part.  Turning the camera horizontally allows for more turning in running direction while still working towards top speed.  Turning the camera vertically causes problems.  Always jump just before the top of steep slopes.  Some spots are wierd and Ammy gets caught up on absolutely nothing *cough Yoshpet and leaving the bamboo grove in Sasa cough*.

As for WIPs, I'll think about it.

Thanks for being sohelpful and supportive.

edit: Started a test run and have gone up through Spider Queen.  Turnip digging in segment 1 is faster.  Ink blotting her is the best wy to do it, as the effects last at least twice as long as anything else.  Also, what the heck is up with the way red imps drop money?  I thought I had it figured out (kill them without slashing the lute strings and they drop the max amount) but apparently not.

First ink upgrade gets used in Kamiki.  Waka will fall to four sfs cherry bombs.  Also, if it turns out I need the money, there's a lacquerware set (2500) right on the way to Koakri.

The ex slip in Tsuta takes a whopping fifteen seconds to get.  Fifteen.  Not worth it.  Ink upgrade 2 will be during Spider Queen (unless two ex slips and three power slashes are enough to take her out, in which case the refill will come during vining, I didn't think to check).

As for the pots cutscene skip, I tried a few times but didn't succeed, though that could have just been bad luck.  There's this sort of flash of something for just an instant between sun-drawing cutscene and the pots cutscene.  I'm assuming that's the moment that lets you skip.  I'll put more effort into it on my next test run.  Also, if the window for the skip really is so small, I'll probably move the end of segment two from Tsuta entrance to the room before the pots.

Finally, fishing is way too random to be fun in a speedrun.

edit 2: Finished up through Orochi in the test run.  Looks like I'll need to grab both the ex slips m and l in Moon Cave.  I skipped the l and turned up about 5000 yen short of what I needed for Ryoshima.

Shopping locations for the first part of the run are:
Kamiki after blooming Shinshu (2 sfs)
Taka on entering (2 sfs, 1 ex slip m)
Agata to mermaid spring (3 mermaid coins, 2 gold dust, 2 ex slip l)
Kamiki before Orochi cutscene (2 ex slip m)
Moon Cave main room imp (4 ex slip m)
Kamiki after Orochi (1 mermaid coin, 2 ex slip m, 1 ex slip l)

Baxter

2009-05-28 07:13:38 pm

I'd also like wips Smiley

Are you running the wii of ps2 version?

BlueGlass

2009-05-28 11:14:25 pm

Yep yep yep!

Right, it looks like I'm going to have to start the test run over. I tried continuing on after my mistake in moon cave but found that I just barely didn't have enough money for everything I needed to get at north ryoshima.

Also, I played around in the Imperial Palace a bit trying to find the shorter way into the Emperor's body that Groobo mentioned but got nothing yet. Anything you can remember, Groobo, would be very useful.

Oh, and Baxter, I'm playing on the Wii. Okami has awesome cutscenes, but watching them hundreds of times in a row would probably drive me insane.

tuomii

2009-05-29 01:27:10 am

I've been playing okami(wii version)alot lately, so I'll see if I can help you out with anything. I'm looking forward to see this game go under 4.15 as groobo said is possible.

groobo

2009-05-29 08:03:36 am

boss

Quote:

Purse upgrade comes in whenever I have enough praise and am at the pause screen before Oni Island. Blinding snow is only 5000, no purse upgrade needed to get it.

What did you need the pourse upgrade for then? I thought it's for the fishing rod.

Quote:

Waka will fall to four sfs cherry bombs

Sfs affects brush attacks? Wow, didn't know about that.

Quote:

- I think using the corner glitch when going for the dojo is faster than using a lilipad, since you basically get out of the water in a perfect line and get to keep all your speed.

I'll test it. Any chance you could provide a video or description, though? I don't quite remember it very well from watching the posted segments of your ng+ about two years ago.

Swim into any corner - I think the angle doesn't matter. Now push the stick just slightly as if you'd want to slow down to walking speed - Ammy should jump out of the water. If you're quick enough to wall jump with some vertical speed left, you should get a bigger then usual height boost.

Quote:

Also, I played around in the Imperial Palace a bit trying to find the shorter way into the Emperor's body that Groobo mentioned but got nothing yet. Anything you can remember, Groobo, would be very useful.

I really can't remember exactly. I'm pretty sure you had to be at maximum speed and time the dash well when falling into/close to the green stuff.

I also remembered something: vine climbing. Attach yourself to a vine, then at any given point ps the vine, and jump in mid-air - even without dj (double jump). Now I don't remember how many times you can do this without touching any ground, or what was the timing. I didn't give it much testing (since you're much more flexible with the kt glitch), so perhaps you should.

I'm looking forward to those wips, man.

[quote]Purse upgrade comes in whenever I have enough praise and am at the pause screen before Oni Island.  Blinding snow is only 5000, no purse upgrade needed to get it.[/quote]
What did you need the pourse upgrade for then? I thought it's for the fishing rod.

[quote]Waka will fall to four sfs cherry bombs[/quote]
Sfs affects brush attacks? Wow, didn't know about that.

[quote][quote]- I think using the corner glitch when going for the dojo is faster than using a lilipad, since you basically get out of the water in a perfect line and get to keep all your speed.[/quote]I'll test it.  Any chance you could provide a video or description, though?  I don't quite remember it very well from watching the posted segments of your ng+ about two years ago.
[/quote]
Swim into any corner - I think the angle doesn't matter. Now push the stick just slightly as if you'd want to slow down to walking speed - Ammy should jump out of the water. If you're quick enough to wall jump with some vertical speed left, you should get a bigger then usual height boost.

[quote]Also, I played around in the Imperial Palace a bit trying to find the shorter way into the Emperor's body that Groobo mentioned but got nothing yet.  Anything you can remember, Groobo, would be very useful.[/quote]
I really can't remember exactly. I'm pretty sure you had to be at maximum speed and time the dash well when falling into/close to the green stuff.

I also remembered something: vine climbing. Attach yourself to a vine, then at any given point ps the vine, and jump in mid-air - even without dj (double jump). Now I don't remember how many times you can do this without touching any ground, or what was the timing. I didn't give it much testing (since you're much more flexible with the kt glitch), so perhaps you should.

I'm looking forward to those wips, man.

BlueGlass

2009-05-29 01:10:57 pm

Yep yep yep!

Quote from groobo:

What did you need the pourse upgrade for then? I thought it's for the fishing rod.

Without the upgrade, the purse only holds enough for 9 ex slip ls. By the time you reach Oni Island, you miss out on most of the money without the upgrade.

Quote:

Sfs affects brush attacks? Wow, didn't know about that.

Just cherry bomb, AFAIK, and definitely not power slash. Not sure about the elemental brush strokes. Sfs cbs are the fastest way to beat the Canine Warrior fights in a ng run.

Quote:

Swim into any corner - I think the angle doesn't matter. Now push the stick just slightly as if you'd want to slow down to walking speed - Ammy should jump out of the water. If you're quick enough to wall jump with some vertical speed left, you should get a bigger then usual height boost.

Thanks. I'll try it out when I get back to Ryoshima.

Quote:

I really can't remember exactly. I'm pretty sure you had to be at maximum speed and time the dash well when falling into/close to the green stuff.

Okay, I'll experiment and see if I can find it.

Quote:

I also remembered something: vine climbing. Attach yourself to a vine, then at any given point ps the vine, and jump in mid-air - even without dj (double jump). Now I don't remember how many times you can do this without touching any ground, or what was the timing. I didn't give it much testing (since you're much more flexible with the kt glitch), so perhaps you should.

Only places I can think where it might be useful are Tsuta, Kusa, and maybe Moon Cave. Hmm, I wonder what the range is for vining to the blossom near Tsukle's hut in Ezofuji. Maybe enough to get to Wawku early?

Also, more stuff from my restarted test run. Ink upgrade 2 will be during the vining part in Tsuta. And I made a mistake in that shopping list in the last post. The two ex slip ls are purchased in Taka, the two ms in Agata, and the second Kamiki shopping is eliminated. Looks like I'll need both the lacquerware set in Agata and the glass beads above the Cutters' to afford everything when I need it.

[quote="groobo"]
What did you need the pourse upgrade for then? I thought it's for the fishing rod.[/quote]
Without the upgrade, the purse only holds enough for 9 ex slip ls.  By the time you reach Oni Island, you miss out on most of the money without the upgrade.
[quote]Sfs affects brush attacks? Wow, didn't know about that.[/quote]
Just cherry bomb, AFAIK, and definitely not power slash.  Not sure about the elemental brush strokes.  Sfs cbs are the fastest way to beat the Canine Warrior fights in a ng run.
[quote]Swim into any corner - I think the angle doesn't matter. Now push the stick just slightly as if you'd want to slow down to walking speed - Ammy should jump out of the water. If you're quick enough to wall jump with some vertical speed left, you should get a bigger then usual height boost.[/quote]Thanks.  I'll try it out when I get back to Ryoshima.

[quote]I really can't remember exactly. I'm pretty sure you had to be at maximum speed and time the dash well when falling into/close to the green stuff.[/quote]Okay, I'll experiment and see if I can find it.

[quote]I also remembered something: vine climbing. Attach yourself to a vine, then at any given point ps the vine, and jump in mid-air - even without dj (double jump). Now I don't remember how many times you can do this without touching any ground, or what was the timing. I didn't give it much testing (since you're much more flexible with the kt glitch), so perhaps you should.[/quote]Only places I can think where it might be useful are Tsuta, Kusa, and maybe Moon Cave.  Hmm, I wonder what the range is for vining to the blossom near Tsukle's hut in Ezofuji.  Maybe enough to get to Wawku early?

Also, more stuff from my restarted test run.  Ink upgrade 2 will be during the vining part in Tsuta.  And I made a mistake in that shopping list in the last post.  The two ex slip ls are purchased in Taka, the two ms in Agata, and the second Kamiki shopping is eliminated.  Looks like I'll need both the lacquerware set in Agata and the glass beads above the Cutters' to afford everything when I need it.

groobo

2009-05-29 01:52:47 pm

boss

Quote from BlueGlass:

Hmm, I wonder what the range is for vining to the blossom near Tsukle's hut in Ezofuji. Maybe enough to get to Wawku early?

After double jumping from the roof you're half a jump away from getting over the wall there. I wonder if you can dash in mid-air kt glitch style after psing the vine. If so, you could double jump near the edge of the cliff, vine, ps, then dash and jump at full speed. Come to think about it... isn't the solid wall as high everywhere as near the gate? If so, you could jump off the cliff, towards the blossom, and try to pull the trick from there. That would save like a full hour or what. I hope it works.

BlueGlass

Edit history:

BlueGlass: 2009-05-29 05:03:30 pm

2009-05-29 02:38:20 pm

Yep yep yep!

I'll test it out when I reach Kamui.

Also, one more correction to the shopping list. I buy 6 ex slip ms in Moon Cave and none in Kamiki.

edit: Something else just came to mind. WHat about City Checkpoint? Is there any way the vine glitch could be used to cross there? I just spent about twenty minutes trying to find a way to get in range to start vining but haven't been successful yet. And even if the Konohana blossoms are reachable, their range might not extend far enough to get to the other side.

Groobo, you probably have plenty of experience of the area from KT glitching across it. Any comments?

groobo

2009-05-30 02:03:37 am

boss

My guess is that you can't get in range with any blossom there without at least dj. Even if you would, to get to the other side the vine glitch would have to work a couple of times and I'm pretty certain you can do it just once. Either this or if you can stand on one of the blossoms close to the other side - maybe it's doable with just one vine after dash jumping from one, then dash jumping again after the glitch (if it works).

BlueGlass

2009-05-30 10:14:33 am

Yep yep yep!

I figured out a bit more about how the vine glitch works, and crossing CC is definitely out, even if it were possible to get in range.

As for Wawku early, I've managed to get onto Tsukle's house, but that's it.

Basically, if you start vining from the ground, you can jump, dj, and airdash. If you've jumped once, you can dj and airdash, if you've djed, you can airdash, and if you've airdashed, you can fall. Also, you have to ps the vine a bit away from Ammy. I haven't tried it with walljumping, as there's no place to walljump near Tsukle's. Why the game lets you dj before getting dj I have no idea.

But anyway, I've gotten on top of Tsukle's hut but not any farther. I actually don't quite remember where I'm trying to get to in the first place. I seem to remember from the video that I have to reach the Wawku gate, but I'm not sure.

Unfortunately, I'll be gone most of today, so I won't be able to get back to this until later tonight or tomorrow.

Also, all shooting Ninetails with the rosary did was make it stop running around. Any tips on what I might be doing wrong?

I figured out a bit more about how the vine glitch works, and crossing CC is definitely out, even if it were possible to get in range.

As for Wawku early, I've managed to get onto Tsukle's house, but that's it.

Basically, if you start vining from the ground, you can jump, dj, and airdash.  If you've jumped once, you can dj and airdash, if you've djed, you can airdash, and if you've airdashed, you can fall.  Also, you have to ps the vine a bit away from Ammy.  I haven't tried it with walljumping, as there's no place to walljump near Tsukle's.  Why the game lets you dj before getting dj I have no idea.

But anyway, I've gotten on top of Tsukle's hut but not any farther.  I actually don't quite remember where I'm trying to get to in the first place.  I seem to remember from the video that I have to reach the Wawku gate, but I'm not sure.

Unfortunately, I'll be gone most of today, so I won't be able to get back to this until later tonight or tomorrow.

Also, all shooting Ninetails with the rosary did was make it stop running around.  Any tips on what I might be doing wrong?

groobo

Edit history:

groobo: 2009-05-30 11:25:36 am

2009-05-30 11:17:28 am

boss

Quote from BlueGlass:

But anyway, I've gotten on top of Tsukle's hut but not any farther. I actually don't quite remember where I'm trying to get to in the first place. I seem to remember from the video that I have to reach the Wawku gate, but I'm not sure.

You're trying to get over the solid part of the wall ANYWHERE on the map. Once you get oob you can just run to the wawku shrine trigger. The wall stops being solid at the height of about two and a half jumps above the hut's roof. IIRC the blossom near the hut is also near the wall. From what you're saying I guess it should be possible to jump from the hut towards the blossom, vine glitch and then dj above the solid part of the wall.

Also, dunno if that changes anything but for 9~ try a rosary with the burst shot instead of a rapid fire one (since that's what I do in ng+ runs and it works all the time). Also make sure he isn't moving and make sure you move a few steps away from him after shooting - he should follow and draw his sword. I hope it works the same on the wii.

[quote="BlueGlass"]
But anyway, I've gotten on top of Tsukle's hut but not any farther.  I actually don't quite remember where I'm trying to get to in the first place.  I seem to remember from the video that I have to reach the Wawku gate, but I'm not sure.
[/quote]
You're trying to get over the solid part of the wall ANYWHERE on the map. Once you get oob you can just run to the wawku shrine trigger. The wall stops being solid at the height of about two and a half jumps above the hut's roof. IIRC the blossom near the hut is also near the wall. From what you're saying I guess it should be possible to jump from the hut towards the blossom, vine glitch and then dj above the solid part of the wall.

Also, dunno if that changes anything but for 9~ try a rosary with the burst shot instead of a rapid fire one (since that's what I do in ng+ runs and it works all the time). Also make sure he isn't moving and make sure you move a few steps away from him after shooting - he should follow and draw his sword. I hope it works the same on the wii.

BlueGlass

Edit history:

BlueGlass: 2009-05-30 07:21:29 pm

2009-05-30 06:20:06 pm

Yep yep yep!

Gah. The best I can get is about one Ammy-height away from the top of the wall. A dash jump from Tsukle's roof, followed by a vine at the peak of the jump, followed by psing the vine just before the peak of Ammy's flight (as Ammy continues on the vine's path for a fraction of a second after the ps), followed by a jump gets me just below the top of the wall. If it were possible to dash into something and bounce off of it onto the wall, that would work, but the only thing to dash into is the wall itself and it doesn't make any sharp enough turns to dash into it at one angle and bounce up on top of it.

Fortunately, though, since there's no cutscenes to watch, Wawku early would only have cut off about 20 minutes, not an hour.

groobo

Edit history:

groobo: 2009-05-31 02:39:26 am

2009-05-31 01:16:09 am

boss

What about dashing into the wall before using vine? Also with dj I guess you meant a second jump instead of two extra jumps, right?

And yeah, for some reason I forgot you acn skip cutscenes, and for some other strange reason I thought you'd be skipping wawku entirely too.

edit: This. Maybe there's a way of getting oob like this without beating wawku first?

Also one more thing that popped into my head. Use the sf waterfall glitch, trigger a battle while still being oob, then try different things like drowning, falling through the void, talking to someone, or going through a loading trigger to a different area or a loading trigger to a different location in the same area like huts. It could lead to something.

BlueGlass

2009-05-31 09:52:06 pm

Yep yep yep!

Quote from groobo:

What about dashing into the wall before using vine? Also with dj I guess you meant a second jump instead of two extra jumps, right?

Bouncing off a wall negates any ability to jump with the vine glitch. An yeah, dj means you just get the second jump, complete with the burst of leaves and everything.

Quote:

edit: This. Maybe there's a way of getting oob like this without beating wawku first?

Also one more thing that popped into my head. Use the sf waterfall glitch, trigger a battle while still being oob, then try different things like drowning, falling through the void, talking to someone, or going through a loading trigger to a different area or a loading trigger to a different location in the same area like huts. It could lead to something.

Neat glitches, but I don't see how either one could be useful. You can't get the needed height in Ezofuji without the KT glitch, and the Shinshu glitch's only use would be if there were a way to hit the Kamui load point, but even then, you'd still need thunderstorm for the Ninetails refight, meaning you can't skip Oni Island.

Also, I haven't been able to make Ninetails skip straight to pulling out the sword, but hitting it with the rosary then running away does seem to make it attack faster. Can you do that trick you mentioned consistently, or did it just happen by accident once or twice?

Oh, and during the Yami fight, it looks like I'll be going in with 24-25 ex slip ls. That's simply not enough to completely take out forms 1-4 by itself, and sfs glaive actually has a higher DPS on phases 2 and 4. And phase 5 does need Veil of Mist, otherwise the stun doesn't last long enough. If I had sword dance, that would probably be a different story, but I don't.

Going to start another test run this week, maybe record some wips as well.

[quote="groobo"]
What about dashing into the wall before using vine? Also with dj I guess you meant a second jump instead of two extra jumps, right?[/quote]Bouncing off a wall negates any ability to jump with the vine glitch.  An yeah, dj means you just get the second jump, complete with the burst of leaves and everything.
[quote]edit: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV43r3lJj2A]This.[/url] Maybe there's a way of getting oob like this without beating wawku first?

Also one more thing that popped into my head. Use the [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BL3aacOfag]sf waterfall glitch[/url], trigger a battle while still being oob, then try different things like drowning, falling through the void, talking to someone, or going through a loading trigger to a different area or a loading trigger to a different location in the same area like huts. It could lead to something.
[/quote]

Neat glitches, but I don't see how either one could be useful.  You can't get the needed height in Ezofuji without the KT glitch, and the Shinshu glitch's only use would be if there were a way to hit the Kamui load point, but even then, you'd still need thunderstorm for the Ninetails refight, meaning you can't skip Oni Island.

Also, I haven't been able to make Ninetails skip straight to pulling out the sword, but hitting it with the rosary then running away does seem to make it attack faster.  Can you do that trick you mentioned consistently, or did it just happen by accident once or twice?

Oh, and during the Yami fight, it looks like I'll be going in with 24-25 ex slip ls.  That's simply not enough to completely take out forms 1-4 by itself, and sfs glaive actually has a higher DPS on phases 2 and 4.  And phase 5 does need Veil of Mist, otherwise the stun doesn't last long enough.  If I had sword dance, that would probably be a different story, but I don't.

Going to start another test run this week, maybe record some wips as well.

groobo

2009-05-31 10:24:49 pm

boss

Quote:

and the Shinshu glitch's only use would be if there were a way to hit the Kamui load point, but even then, you'd still need thunderstorm for the Ninetails refight, meaning you can't skip Oni Island.

Maybe it leaves some strange permanent effect on something - it's worth trying out (unless you already did and it led to nothing).

Quote:

Also, I haven't been able to make Ninetails skip straight to pulling out the sword, but hitting it with the rosary then running away does seem to make it attack faster. Can you do that trick you mentioned consistently, or did it just happen by accident once or twice?

Works every time. Or at least it worked every single time for the past hundred tries.

Too bad the wawku skip won't work :(.

BlueGlass

Edit history:

BlueGlass: 2009-06-01 03:45:59 pm

2009-06-01 03:26:05 pm

Yep yep yep!

Quote from groobo:

Works every time. Or at least it worked every single time for the past hundred tries.

Any chance you could provide a video so I can see just what it is I'm doing differently?

I started another test run today. Just to give you an idea of how these test runs are going, I'll post my times at each segment and how much time I estimate was lost to mistakes/experimentation/other stuff. Note that i only half paid attention to my time, as I only just decided to do this right now, so many of these may be off. Also note that, as this is a test run, I'm not caring about making mistakes.

Segment 1 saved at about 19:30, with somewhere between 30 seconds to 1 minute of mistakes from slow fighting and the game not counting my blooms as blooms.

Segment 2 saved at about 38 minutes? (i was playing while half-asleep). This part had poor running, bad fighting, uncooperative enemies, and falling off platforms, costing probably 3-4 minutes. Also, I grabbed the lacquerware set in Agata, the vase in the first room of Tsuta, and the incense burner in the room with the first bud ogre to make up for every single fight with regular enemies up to that point giving significantly less yen than normal. It was definitely overkill.

Segment 3 saved at about 48 minutes (the last one I did before going to bed). Lost time here came from not skipping the pots cutscene, bad movement in general, slow fighting, messing up vining and missing the cutscene skip, messing up vining Spider Queen, and messing up psing Spider Queen. Overall estimated time loss in this segment was 2-3 minutes.

Segment 4 saved at !:00:06. I'm not sure where exactly time was lost, as I don't know if day/night time passes during battles (doubt it, though) or when the time resets to start of day (is it on leaving Tsuta, blooming Taka, de-cursing Kusa?) Anyway, I had a bad Waka fight, a bad Canine Warrior fight, and I remembered about and grabbed the tiger statue in Taka.

Segment 5 saved at 1:19:xx. I messed up the digging game, had a horrendous Take fight, a bad Ume fight, went in the wrong direction when returning to the Agata mermaid spring, and had an overload of yen when shopping in Agata and wasted time deciding what to spend it on (eventually decided to get 6 extra mermaid coins). Probably around 4-5 minutes wasted

Segment 6 saved at 1:38:xx. Slow Hayabusa fight. Wasted several seconds during the chimera fights. Spent about five minutes helping my mom with the computer. Missed the trick with the rotating bridge cutscene. And repeatedly jumped into the fire in the room before CH like an idiot because the game didn't register my Galestorm as a Galestorm. Overall, probably about 8 minutes lost here.

Next save was in Moon Cave after raising the pot and grabbing the ex slip m above it. I think my time was 1:43:xx. Probably abot 40 seconds lost here between mistakes running and getting into a fight on the way to the Taka mermaid spring. Oh, and about 20 seconds for the extra save.

Segment 7 saved at 2:08:xx. About 3 minutes were lost to slow fights, vines and waterspouts being registered as galestorms, and running out of kin while fighting Orochi.

Segment 8 saved at 2:28:31. Probably around 1 minute 30 seconds lost to mistakes. Also, I used the extra money I had in Kamiki from not having to buy the mermaid coins I bought in Agata to buy 3 sfs instead. This plus grabbing the buried ex slip m by the sunken ship will let me skip the stop at Sei-An weapon shop I would have needed next segment. Not sure it really saves any time, though, as getting the buried slip takes something like five seconds.

edit: Segment 9 saved at 2:43:51. Interestingly enough, when I turned off my Wii, the time on my watch was 4:43:51. Very freaky coincidence. Anyway, about 3 mins 45 secs lost due to the sunken ship skip, me being stupid, spiders being stupid, more me being stupid, and Blight being stupid.

[quote="groobo"]Works every time. Or at least it worked every single time for the past hundred tries.[/quote]Any chance you could provide a video so I can see just what it is I'm doing differently?

I started another test run today.  Just to give you an idea of how these test runs are going, I'll post my times at each segment and how much time I estimate was lost to mistakes/experimentation/other stuff.  Note that i only half paid attention to my time, as I only just decided to do this right now, so many of these may be off.  Also note that, as this is a test run, I'm not caring about making mistakes.

Segment 1 saved at about 19:30, with somewhere between 30 seconds to 1 minute of mistakes from slow fighting and the game not counting my blooms as blooms.

Segment 2 saved at about 38 minutes? (i was playing while half-asleep).  This part had poor running, bad fighting, uncooperative enemies, and falling off platforms, costing probably 3-4 minutes.  Also, I grabbed the lacquerware set in Agata, the vase in the first room of Tsuta, and the incense burner in the room with the first bud ogre to make up for every single fight with regular enemies up to that point giving significantly less yen than normal.  It was definitely overkill.

Segment 3 saved at about 48 minutes (the last one I did before going to bed).  Lost time here came from not skipping the pots cutscene, bad movement in general, slow fighting, messing up vining and missing the cutscene skip, messing up vining Spider Queen, and messing up psing Spider Queen.  Overall estimated time loss in this segment was 2-3 minutes.

Segment 4 saved at !:00:06.  I'm not sure where exactly time was lost, as I don't know if day/night time passes during battles (doubt it, though) or when the time resets to start of day (is it on leaving Tsuta, blooming Taka, de-cursing Kusa?)  Anyway, I had a bad Waka fight, a bad Canine Warrior fight, and I remembered about and grabbed the tiger statue in Taka.

Segment 5 saved at 1:19:xx.  I messed up the digging game, had a horrendous Take fight, a bad Ume fight, went in the wrong direction when returning to the Agata mermaid spring, and had an overload of yen when shopping in Agata and wasted time deciding what to spend it on (eventually decided to get 6 extra mermaid coins).  Probably around 4-5 minutes wasted

Segment 6 saved at 1:38:xx.  Slow Hayabusa fight.  Wasted several seconds during the chimera fights.  Spent about five minutes helping my mom with the computer.  Missed the trick with the rotating bridge cutscene.  And repeatedly jumped into the fire in the room before CH like an idiot because the game didn't register my Galestorm as a Galestorm.  Overall, probably about 8 minutes lost here.

Next save was in Moon Cave after raising the pot and grabbing the ex slip m above it.  I think my time was 1:43:xx.  Probably abot 40 seconds lost here between mistakes running and getting into a fight on the way to the Taka mermaid spring.  Oh, and about 20 seconds for the extra save.

Segment 7 saved at 2:08:xx.  About 3 minutes were lost to slow fights, vines and waterspouts being registered as galestorms, and running out of kin while fighting Orochi.

Segment 8 saved at 2:28:31.  Probably around 1 minute 30 seconds lost to mistakes.  Also, I used the extra money I had in Kamiki from not having to buy the mermaid coins I bought in Agata to buy 3 sfs instead.  This plus grabbing the buried ex slip m by the sunken ship will let me skip the stop at Sei-An weapon shop I would have needed next segment.  Not sure it really saves any time, though, as getting the buried slip takes something like five seconds.

edit: Segment 9 saved at 2:43:51.  Interestingly enough, when I turned off my Wii, the time on my watch was 4:43:51.  Very freaky coincidence.  Anyway, about 3 mins 45 secs lost due to the sunken ship skip, me being stupid, spiders being stupid, more me being stupid, and Blight being stupid.

tuomii

2009-06-03 07:44:23 am

this may only save 4or less seconds(I havent timed it)
moon cave:
After you collect Eyeball of fire don't run to get the key, insted run back to the elevator room and once your there jump over the ledge and vine the highest blossom. now run at full speed to the cannon (skip gale storm) and jump over the wall behind the cannon, this will take you to the room were you place a defuse cb.
This is how you make it over the wall behind the cannon. If you are standing behind the cannon go to the wall left of the cannon, jump and vine the blossom near the merchant and after you get som hight cut the vine and walljump over the wall, then dash to get some extra distance.

tuomii

2009-06-08 03:14:32 pm

kamui-Ezofuji:
It is possible to get oob near Tsukle's house.
Vine the blossom near tsukle's house, then turn away from tsukle's house. From here you jump towards to the other blossom and vine it, jump up to the road that leads to a clover in the far end but don't run there, insted go to the left side close to the edge so you can see the blossom near tsukle's house. Now that you are in position, don't jump or dash just stand still and vine that blossom and when your half way there vine the other one behind you, note that you will gain hight four a short while evey time you vine a blossom so after you gain some hight vine yourself back to the other blossom. Keep vining yourself back and fourth untill you can only vine the blossom near tsukle's house, ps the vine and jump then vine it again to get some extra hight then ps the vine again and jump over the wall.

Hope you understand my explanation, my english sucks

BlueGlass

Edit history:

BlueGlass: 2009-06-08 06:38:31 pm

2009-06-08 05:37:04 pm

Yep yep yep!

Awesome discovery. From the description, it sounds like an inkfinity stone might be needed, but that wouldn't be too big of a deal. I'll give it a try when I get there in my test run.

And the key skip you mentioned in Moon Cave doesn't look like it will actually be useful, since I need to go into the key room anyway to get the ex slip l.

edit: segment 10 done. 3:02:44. Approximate 1 min 50 secs of mistakes, mostly because I haven't played the game at all for nearly a week.

edit 2: segment 11 done. 3:21:59 at the entrance room in Oni Island. About 2:15 of mistakes here, nearly half of it in the Water Dragon.