Wow! Under an hour? Great work! Can't wait to watch it.
Quote from arthurgolden:
Wow! Under an hour? Great work! Can't wait to watch it.
Same
SDA Forum
Pudding%
Well, I worked on it some more, and managed to shave another 20 seconds off Zeteginea, and 29 seconds off Temple Shalina, bringing the time down to 0:56:18.
I'm still not completely satisfied with Temple Shalina though...took 14 Jokers to get all 3 cards I wanted (which is what it took in Zeteginea before the improvement, which is now only 8 Jokers). What's more is that I can get Judgements within the first few pulls in some cases, and have managed to find a place where the RNG will usually give me a Chariot within 3 pulls. I just need to find a place where I can get that 2nd Judgement and I'll be golden.
I'm still not completely satisfied with Temple Shalina though...took 14 Jokers to get all 3 cards I wanted (which is what it took in Zeteginea before the improvement, which is now only 8 Jokers). What's more is that I can get Judgements within the first few pulls in some cases, and have managed to find a place where the RNG will usually give me a Chariot within 3 pulls. I just need to find a place where I can get that 2nd Judgement and I'll be golden.
Pudding%
Almost...there's one certain combination that gives me a Judgement on the 2nd pull, then when it changes to dusk I can get a Chariot in 3 pulls (9/10 times anyway). I tried fighting Gares and pulling after the fight, but the fight itself won't go the way I need it to - I need Tristan to connect twice (no one else really matters), and I also need Tristan to go first on the 2nd round. With the RNG in that state, Tristan never goes first on the 2nd round, so I need to do the remaining card pulling before the fight. I know damn well I can get this. I'm hoping to shave enough to bring this down to 56 minutes even, or lower if possible.
I'll be doing some more attempts in about an hour or so.
I'll be doing some more attempts in about an hour or so.
Pudding%
OK...so...I REALLY hate to say this - and I mean REALLY hate to say this...
But I have to start over.
Quick flashback:
A little over a month ago I ordered new parts for my PC. When I got the whole thing built and powered on, and reinstalled Firefox, I realized that I forgot to save my favorites list. No biggie, I thought. I remember most of them, and the rest will eventually come to me.
Fast forward to yesterday, when I was thinking about TASes, and realized that I hadn't re-added TASVideos back onto my favorites list. I checked out a couple runs, checked a couple threads on games I had been track of, and called it good.
Then I got the idea to see if there was a thread on Ogre Battle over there. I had checked way back when and didn't remember seeing one, but thought that maybe one had popped up in the mean time. Sure enough, I find a thread on it...but the initial post was back in 2005. I'm guessing the last time I searched for it, it was buried so deep that I just never delved far enough to see it.
Anyway, there was a lot of good info on how the RNG works - most of which I had actually figured out in real-time, but there were more specific details as to the exacts behind it. This however isn't the reason I'm restarting.
There was a WIP up (and an unassisted as well that I checked out)...I found out that I could easily shave another minute off the time, with a lot of it being in the first damn stage.
So...after having a night to think about it at work, I've decided to scrap this run in favor of starting over...almost.
I had originally done the first segment of both the 100% and any% runs at the same time (and got almost the exact same card luck to boot!). So I'm not going to redo the character creation, and instead just start with the 100% save file I still have. I haven't done anything with it beyond creating the character.
With the new info on how the RNG works, however, I'm 100% confident that I can manipulate the RNG even harder than I managed to in this run. I'm actually estimating the time being almost 2 minutes faster when everything is said and done.
In the meantime, I'm going to upload the scrapped run to YouTube. I'll get around to that sometime this week.
I apologize for delaying this once again, but I'm determined to have this be as close to optimal as I can get it. SDA deserves no less than that.
But I have to start over.
Quick flashback:
A little over a month ago I ordered new parts for my PC. When I got the whole thing built and powered on, and reinstalled Firefox, I realized that I forgot to save my favorites list. No biggie, I thought. I remember most of them, and the rest will eventually come to me.
Fast forward to yesterday, when I was thinking about TASes, and realized that I hadn't re-added TASVideos back onto my favorites list. I checked out a couple runs, checked a couple threads on games I had been track of, and called it good.
Then I got the idea to see if there was a thread on Ogre Battle over there. I had checked way back when and didn't remember seeing one, but thought that maybe one had popped up in the mean time. Sure enough, I find a thread on it...but the initial post was back in 2005. I'm guessing the last time I searched for it, it was buried so deep that I just never delved far enough to see it.
Anyway, there was a lot of good info on how the RNG works - most of which I had actually figured out in real-time, but there were more specific details as to the exacts behind it. This however isn't the reason I'm restarting.
There was a WIP up (and an unassisted as well that I checked out)...I found out that I could easily shave another minute off the time, with a lot of it being in the first damn stage.
So...after having a night to think about it at work, I've decided to scrap this run in favor of starting over...almost.
I had originally done the first segment of both the 100% and any% runs at the same time (and got almost the exact same card luck to boot!). So I'm not going to redo the character creation, and instead just start with the 100% save file I still have. I haven't done anything with it beyond creating the character.
With the new info on how the RNG works, however, I'm 100% confident that I can manipulate the RNG even harder than I managed to in this run. I'm actually estimating the time being almost 2 minutes faster when everything is said and done.
In the meantime, I'm going to upload the scrapped run to YouTube. I'll get around to that sometime this week.
I apologize for delaying this once again, but I'm determined to have this be as close to optimal as I can get it. SDA deserves no less than that.
Pudding%
As promised, I've uploaded the scrapped run to YouTube.
Parts 1, 2, and 3 (Character Creation, Castle of Warren, Sharom)
Parts 4, 5, and 6 (Sharom District, Lake Janennia, Slums of Zenobia)
Parts 7 and 8 (Island Avalon, Kastolatian Sea)
Parts 9 and 10 (Balmorian Ruins, City of Malano)
Parts 11 and 12 (Shangrila, Fort Allamoot)
Parts 13 and 14 (Dalmuhd Desert, Fort Shulamana)
Parts 15 and 16 (City of Xanadu, Zeteginea)
Part 17 (Temple Shalina)
Parts 1, 2, and 3 (Character Creation, Castle of Warren, Sharom)
Parts 4, 5, and 6 (Sharom District, Lake Janennia, Slums of Zenobia)
Parts 7 and 8 (Island Avalon, Kastolatian Sea)
Parts 9 and 10 (Balmorian Ruins, City of Malano)
Parts 11 and 12 (Shangrila, Fort Allamoot)
Parts 13 and 14 (Dalmuhd Desert, Fort Shulamana)
Parts 15 and 16 (City of Xanadu, Zeteginea)
Part 17 (Temple Shalina)
Pudding%
It's all from the fact that I thought I knew what the trigger was for Warren not sending you away, but it turns out that I was dead wrong. I had always thought you have to liberate every town on the island before Warren would fight you, but the only liberation needed is Zeltenia. I'm guessing the real trigger is just having recruited Lans.
However, the Warren fight went a little better than last time. When I say it's perfect, I actually mean it. Warren didn't get a turn, and he was killed in the minimum number attacks possible.
However, the Warren fight went a little better than last time. When I say it's perfect, I actually mean it. Warren didn't get a turn, and he was killed in the minimum number attacks possible.
Hi, everyone!
My name is Anthony Robertson but I go by Brootus in the gaming world.
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen (the SNES one) has allllllways been my favorite RPG
Every couple years I pull it out and play it again. I have been researching a lot, memorizing routes/paths/whatever, and I have the game down to beaten with the world ending (that's 16 out of 18 unlockable characters, 100 chaos frame (reputation) and the 12 zodiac stones/armband/grail/brunnhilde. All levels beaten.
can do this in 3 hours, working really hard to get it down to 2 1/2 or so.
Was wondering if you fans of the game think this is an acceptable % complete of the game and time of the game for a "world ending" run.
If enough people think it's cool enough, I think I'm gonna go for it and submit a speedrun!
Thanks in advance for support! (i hope!)
~Brootus
My name is Anthony Robertson but I go by Brootus in the gaming world.
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen (the SNES one) has allllllways been my favorite RPG
Every couple years I pull it out and play it again. I have been researching a lot, memorizing routes/paths/whatever, and I have the game down to beaten with the world ending (that's 16 out of 18 unlockable characters, 100 chaos frame (reputation) and the 12 zodiac stones/armband/grail/brunnhilde. All levels beaten.
can do this in 3 hours, working really hard to get it down to 2 1/2 or so.
Was wondering if you fans of the game think this is an acceptable % complete of the game and time of the game for a "world ending" run.
If enough people think it's cool enough, I think I'm gonna go for it and submit a speedrun!
Thanks in advance for support! (i hope!)
~Brootus
Pudding%
If this is single segment, then that time is probably acceptable, though I'd need to see the run itself since I haven't fully routed a run of 100%. If it's segmented, I'm pretty confident that it could be much faster.
Also, 100% requires 17 of 18 characters. I'm pretty sure the character you're skipping is Deneb, and yes she's required for 100%
Requirements are:
Best ending.
All Maps complete.
All characters except Galf (Galf interferes with the World Ending)
Getting Deneb actually isn't that hard to do while still leaving enough time to re-raise your reputation.
Also, 100% requires 17 of 18 characters. I'm pretty sure the character you're skipping is Deneb, and yes she's required for 100%
Requirements are:
Best ending.
All Maps complete.
All characters except Galf (Galf interferes with the World Ending)
Getting Deneb actually isn't that hard to do while still leaving enough time to re-raise your reputation.
Been working hard to reduce time on everything, and yeah, i think i can get it much much lower! 2 hours is my goal right now.
it would be single segment. Also, working towards making it a live-stream type thing, meaning i don't need to manipulate any RNG or anything. Don't care about tarot card/items/etc. Can just go through the game dealing with what the game gives me.
I just dont really get why deneb matters. Not part of the world ending and is more of a pain to get . Could I ask if you know any easy trick of getting her? Raising the rep up after you get her seems easy enough, but do you have a trick to reduce it? Just letting a city fall a lot? Ok rambling sorry
Anyway. Wanted to say that I watched your youtube stuff and I know your reputation as a speed runner, so I totally respect your reponse and really appreciate it. Thank you, sir!
Would you mind if i emailed you for more specific questions/strategies about the game and not clog the forum? I know I could learn a lot from you!
~Brootus
it would be single segment. Also, working towards making it a live-stream type thing, meaning i don't need to manipulate any RNG or anything. Don't care about tarot card/items/etc. Can just go through the game dealing with what the game gives me.
I just dont really get why deneb matters. Not part of the world ending and is more of a pain to get . Could I ask if you know any easy trick of getting her? Raising the rep up after you get her seems easy enough, but do you have a trick to reduce it? Just letting a city fall a lot? Ok rambling sorry
Anyway. Wanted to say that I watched your youtube stuff and I know your reputation as a speed runner, so I totally respect your reponse and really appreciate it. Thank you, sir!
Would you mind if i emailed you for more specific questions/strategies about the game and not clog the forum? I know I could learn a lot from you!
~Brootus
Waiting hurts my soul...
If it's game related, then please don't hide out on strategy discussion. It's best to have it open to the community so others can learn the game or pick up on why certain things work while other strategies were chosen even if they appear slower. That's kind of the point of the forums, to document the process.
Hmm. yes I guess that makes sense!
Well I have been playing around with working deneb into my run (because i havent before) and I could use some strategy tips
I havent tried too many methods yet, but what ive worked so far is every map up to slums (forgiving deneb of course), then island avalon, this kast. sea, then balmorian, then diaspola. I feel like this is pretty necessary, but im not 100% sure. This was always my route on the normal 100% run. What I don't know yet is if I should go much farther before tanking rep to get deb or if i should have done it sooner?
Anyways... what I've got so far is valley of kastro opens up and a high-fly raven man takes my base. so i just load map, move hero back a bit, and let them take my base. This is best solution ive got so far, but i was thinking i might be able to find a way to take/lose a regular city over and over again without causing too many fights between units and that would be faster. not sure yet...
Anyway... thanks for tips on this if anyone's got'em
Well I have been playing around with working deneb into my run (because i havent before) and I could use some strategy tips
I havent tried too many methods yet, but what ive worked so far is every map up to slums (forgiving deneb of course), then island avalon, this kast. sea, then balmorian, then diaspola. I feel like this is pretty necessary, but im not 100% sure. This was always my route on the normal 100% run. What I don't know yet is if I should go much farther before tanking rep to get deb or if i should have done it sooner?
Anyways... what I've got so far is valley of kastro opens up and a high-fly raven man takes my base. so i just load map, move hero back a bit, and let them take my base. This is best solution ive got so far, but i was thinking i might be able to find a way to take/lose a regular city over and over again without causing too many fights between units and that would be faster. not sure yet...
Anyway... thanks for tips on this if anyone's got'em
learned a couple things for myself...
to get deneb the alignment of your OL doesnt need to be low (i read some guides that suggest it needs to be, but mine is 70). also, chaos frame needs to be <33, but not 0 (also some guides i read suggested it needed to be 0).
What scares me about re-working my run to fit deneb is the thought of planning it out so that on my way through the first 13 levels or so, i keep my rep low by capturing/intentionally losing key cities along the way. Sounds like many many hours of testing ahead of me! joy!
to get deneb the alignment of your OL doesnt need to be low (i read some guides that suggest it needs to be, but mine is 70). also, chaos frame needs to be <33, but not 0 (also some guides i read suggested it needed to be 0).
What scares me about re-working my run to fit deneb is the thought of planning it out so that on my way through the first 13 levels or so, i keep my rep low by capturing/intentionally losing key cities along the way. Sounds like many many hours of testing ahead of me! joy!
what ive got right now is two options that i need to test/time/perfect.
first one, which seems the less likely of the two, is going through the game fast as possible getting all of the hidden characters up to about stage 13 or 14. This inevitably gets you 100 reputation.
2nd one which is much harder, more interesting, and im hoping is actually faster, is keeping rep low as possible by strategically losing main base/other cities. Right now i'm just trying to perfect exactly how much rep is needed for certain events. What ive got right now is looking pretty good. I have to lose base two or three times on the 3rd stage (canopus) but you have to keep rep at half or gilbert won't join. This works alright though because getting canopus requires some town-juggling, so just putting in a few base-losses in there doesnt slow me down too much (but i havent tested times exactly yet. doing that in the next couple days). And if you do that entire level in one go, it's pretty much impossible to do without getting into 1 fight against (the wizard + 2 griffon unit) since you can only have 2 high-fly units. with this new strat, i can avoid all fights altogether which means i dont have to create a unit to defend base/use any tarot cards or anything.
I then forgive deneb tanking some more rep, then lose 5 or 6 times (depending on tarot card rep luck) to get rep down to 1/3. once it hits 1/3 i can do island avalon (gares boss) and pick up aisha. she doesnt seem to care that my rep is at 1/3 (all the other self-righteous hidden characters have issues i guess). Then I can do kast. sea (cant get brunnhilde sword yet though) and then i can do diaspola. Diaspola is nice because i can get the beehive quest (little girl gives you dialog as long as your OL has 70+ ali, which is easy to do from pogrom forest), buy the bough for deneb and lose 2 cities + my main base in the process. Doing that once or maybe twice to tank my rep back down to 1/3 (i need to test how fast i lose rep doing the 2 city + main base loss on diaspola vs the losing-base-spam back on slums of zenobia.
Once ive tanked the rep down to 1/3, i can get deneb. With deneb i can do kast. sea (very easy with aisha and deneb as valkyries) Then i have to go back to a few maps with my OL (who i get to 100 ali from pogrom forest) and get rep back up to 60% full. Need to test is i get it faster with just my hero at 100 ali or if i can fit in canopus (usually at 60 or so ali at this point). I assume faster with canopus but ... havent tested. Anyways 60% is not good enough for saradin or rauny, but it is enough to get brunnhilde on kast. sea (couldnt get it when i first went through) and norn on diaspola. Once i get norn, then my rep is 70 which seems to be enough to do anything else, so I can just continue on with the speed-run as I always had.
So the question is... are all these little reputation tricks worth it/faster than just getting all of the hidden characters besides deneb and then tanking rep by losing base over and over and over (would take 15 or 20x from full rep bar i think... sooo boring to watch/do for a speedrun)? I'm really hoping it's faster. Even if it's just by a few minutes. So yeah... that's what I'm going to test in the next few days. Unless Dragondarch is my guardian angel and has already tested this stuff! Or if he/anyone else has a better solution to the reputation/deneb issue of the 100% run.
Whelp this post is getting a bit long so i shall stop! But hopefully it will give you all a better idea of the seriousness with which i am attacking this game
~Brootus
first one, which seems the less likely of the two, is going through the game fast as possible getting all of the hidden characters up to about stage 13 or 14. This inevitably gets you 100 reputation.
2nd one which is much harder, more interesting, and im hoping is actually faster, is keeping rep low as possible by strategically losing main base/other cities. Right now i'm just trying to perfect exactly how much rep is needed for certain events. What ive got right now is looking pretty good. I have to lose base two or three times on the 3rd stage (canopus) but you have to keep rep at half or gilbert won't join. This works alright though because getting canopus requires some town-juggling, so just putting in a few base-losses in there doesnt slow me down too much (but i havent tested times exactly yet. doing that in the next couple days). And if you do that entire level in one go, it's pretty much impossible to do without getting into 1 fight against (the wizard + 2 griffon unit) since you can only have 2 high-fly units. with this new strat, i can avoid all fights altogether which means i dont have to create a unit to defend base/use any tarot cards or anything.
I then forgive deneb tanking some more rep, then lose 5 or 6 times (depending on tarot card rep luck) to get rep down to 1/3. once it hits 1/3 i can do island avalon (gares boss) and pick up aisha. she doesnt seem to care that my rep is at 1/3 (all the other self-righteous hidden characters have issues i guess). Then I can do kast. sea (cant get brunnhilde sword yet though) and then i can do diaspola. Diaspola is nice because i can get the beehive quest (little girl gives you dialog as long as your OL has 70+ ali, which is easy to do from pogrom forest), buy the bough for deneb and lose 2 cities + my main base in the process. Doing that once or maybe twice to tank my rep back down to 1/3 (i need to test how fast i lose rep doing the 2 city + main base loss on diaspola vs the losing-base-spam back on slums of zenobia.
Once ive tanked the rep down to 1/3, i can get deneb. With deneb i can do kast. sea (very easy with aisha and deneb as valkyries) Then i have to go back to a few maps with my OL (who i get to 100 ali from pogrom forest) and get rep back up to 60% full. Need to test is i get it faster with just my hero at 100 ali or if i can fit in canopus (usually at 60 or so ali at this point). I assume faster with canopus but ... havent tested. Anyways 60% is not good enough for saradin or rauny, but it is enough to get brunnhilde on kast. sea (couldnt get it when i first went through) and norn on diaspola. Once i get norn, then my rep is 70 which seems to be enough to do anything else, so I can just continue on with the speed-run as I always had.
So the question is... are all these little reputation tricks worth it/faster than just getting all of the hidden characters besides deneb and then tanking rep by losing base over and over and over (would take 15 or 20x from full rep bar i think... sooo boring to watch/do for a speedrun)? I'm really hoping it's faster. Even if it's just by a few minutes. So yeah... that's what I'm going to test in the next few days. Unless Dragondarch is my guardian angel and has already tested this stuff! Or if he/anyone else has a better solution to the reputation/deneb issue of the 100% run.
Whelp this post is getting a bit long so i shall stop! But hopefully it will give you all a better idea of the seriousness with which i am attacking this game
~Brootus