Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-09-13 11:04:16 pm

2006-09-13 02:15:43 pm

Never give up!

In other words, the SNES Ogre Battle.

I know someone else was considering a run of this game eventually. However, this is probably the most complex game I've seen, so when I noticed there wasn't already a proper topic to set forth strategies, I decided to take it upon myself to make one. Rushing in without a clear game plan is literally asking for failure in this game.

Problem is, I don't have a lot in terms of strategies (partly because the farthest I've gotten before is just after Deneb's Garden, and all the rest of my knowledge - like about later units - comes from FAQs). Thus, I will just list what I can think of and see where it leads. I'll probably give the game a more serious look-over, though, and then maybe I can come up with better stuff.

Game Path: I'm going to assume someone who'd speedrun this game for purely fastest time would take an evil path. I'm not going to assume what ending it would be though, since I don't know for sure which one is fastest.

Units: I can imagine maybe three to five full units used throughout the entire game, since that means higher levels for those units. The most I can foresee is probably eight, and that's only for the very large maps. I include the Opinion Leader's unit as one of these since all the Tarot Card experience goes to him.

Soldier Types: I have several thoughts as far as this.
-More than one Dragon is a no-no, and even getting one might be iffy. This is just because they take so long to level up compared to others - at least that's what I suspect. If getting one really is important, though, get it in the second scenario. As far as what to end up with - if you're going to use it as a blocker (why would you do that, though?), try to find an Undead Ring and, once the dragon's strong enough, use it to get a Zombie Dragon. If you want the dragon to be attacking (which I think makes more sense), only go as far as a Tiamat.
-I suggest keeping Warren around (leading a unit, yes) and bringing him all the way to a Lich. Yes, this means getting an Undead Staff AND an Undead Ring, but I think it's worth it (especially since BSulpher's guide claims a Lich is immune to all attack types but Thunder and White Magic - if that's not a case for 'best unit', I don't know what is). And I suspect, if you're really lucky, you can get both of them fairly early. Alignment matters with this guy before he becomes a Mage, though, so don't drop his alignment too fast.
-I'm probably one of the few people who suggests getting a Werewolf. If you get one, make sure to get the Rune Axe (other White Magic weapons also work, but this is one of the earliest ones) and give it to him. You're not going to find many other undead-killers than this combo who can also fight normal enemies effectively - yes, I know the three attacks only come at night, but there's ways around that problem.
-(recent addition) Think of manipulating a 'Crown' item at some point early on and having a Princess (they require a 'Crown' to get) lead a unit with your strongest attackers. At least according to BSulpher's guide on GameFAQs, whenever a Princess is leading a unit, everyone in the unit gets one extra attack. Yes, this includes the Princess, who is best used in the back row (her back row spell hits all enemies with a White Magic attack).
-(recent addition) You need at least one of your units to be a sky unit of some sort - I recommend Wyrm- or Griffon-class monsters for this.

Don't have anything else as far as soldier types - I'll look at this more seriously later.

Tarot Cards: Every card has its place. In fact, Tarot Cards are so important that I recommend buying some Jokers and using them when you're short on cards. The most important card is probably Fortune or Fool. The former should be used on enemies you don't want to fight, while the latter should be used on the crucial 'scenario leader' battles. Moon might be a good cheap substitute for Fool, if the enemy leader likes to hide behind tough troops.

With this, I open the rest of the topic to discussion and debate.

Thread title:

In other words, the SNES Ogre Battle.

I know someone else was considering a run of this game eventually.  However, this is probably the most complex game I've seen, so when I noticed there wasn't already a proper topic to set forth strategies, I decided to take it upon myself to make one.  Rushing in without a clear game plan is literally asking for failure in this game.

Problem is, I don't have a lot in terms of strategies (partly because the farthest I've gotten before is just after Deneb's Garden, and all the rest of my knowledge - like about later units - comes from FAQs).  Thus, I will just list what I can think of and see where it leads.  I'll probably give the game a more serious look-over, though, and then maybe I can come up with better stuff.

Game Path:  I'm going to assume someone who'd speedrun this game for purely fastest time would take an evil path.  I'm not going to assume what ending it would be though, since I don't know for sure which one is fastest.

Units: I can imagine maybe three to five full units used throughout the entire game, since that means higher levels for those units.  The most I can foresee is probably eight, and that's only for the very large maps.  I include the Opinion Leader's unit as one of these since all the Tarot Card experience goes to him.

Soldier Types: I have several thoughts as far as this.
-More than one Dragon is a no-no, and even getting one might be iffy.  This is just because they take so long to level up compared to others - at least that's what I suspect.  If getting one really is important, though, get it in the second scenario.  As far as what to end up with - if you're going to use it as a blocker (why would you do that, though?), try to find an Undead Ring and, once the dragon's strong enough, use it to get a Zombie Dragon.  If you want the dragon to be attacking (which I think makes more sense), only go as far as a Tiamat.
-I suggest keeping Warren around (leading a unit, yes) and bringing him all the way to a Lich.  Yes, this means getting an Undead Staff AND an Undead Ring, but I think it's worth it (especially since BSulpher's guide claims a Lich is immune to all attack types but Thunder and White Magic - if that's not a case for 'best unit', I don't know what is).  And I suspect, if you're really lucky, you can get both of them fairly early.  Alignment matters with this guy before he becomes a Mage, though, so don't drop his alignment too fast.
-I'm probably one of the few people who suggests getting a Werewolf.  If you get one, make sure to get the Rune Axe (other White Magic weapons also work, but this is one of the earliest ones) and give it to him.  You're not going to find many other undead-killers than this combo who can also fight normal enemies effectively - yes, I know the three attacks only come at night, but there's ways around that problem.
-(recent addition)  Think of manipulating a 'Crown' item at some point early on and having a Princess (they require a 'Crown' to get) lead a unit with your strongest attackers.  At least according to BSulpher's guide on GameFAQs, whenever a Princess is leading a unit, everyone in the unit gets one extra attack.  Yes, this includes the Princess, who is best used in the back row (her back row spell hits all enemies with a White Magic attack).
-(recent addition)  You need at least one of your units to be a sky unit of some sort - I recommend Wyrm- or Griffon-class monsters for this.

Don't have anything else as far as soldier types - I'll look at this more seriously later.

Tarot Cards: Every card has its place.  In fact, Tarot Cards are so important that I recommend buying some Jokers and using them when you're short on cards.  The most important card is probably Fortune or Fool.  The former should be used on enemies you don't want to fight, while the latter should be used on the crucial 'scenario leader' battles.  Moon might be a good cheap substitute for Fool, if the enemy leader likes to hide behind tough troops.

With this, I open the rest of the topic to discussion and debate.

Sir VG

2006-09-13 09:29:18 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

I've tried playing this game before but never did get very far...probably because I suck at Tactics games. I'd like to see somebody smear this one. Good luck.

AquaTiger

2006-09-13 11:06:45 pm

Never give up!

Yeah, I see this being rather insanely difficult to pull off. Although let me point out that I'm not sure if the person who considered running this game eventually (yes, I know who it was - I refuse to put the spotlight on him unless he wants it, however) is still considering it.

Still, I thought I'd at least try to help out.

Dragondarch

2006-09-13 11:42:14 pm

Pudding%

Yes, it is still in my queue, and ues, I still intend to run it. Seeing as the battery in it isn't very good any more (can't take the game out of the system without losing all saved data...turning it off is OK so long as I don't move the game/SNES at all) I may bump it to next up.

...and I'll post with some general info I was initially thinking of later on tonight.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-09-14 12:44:41 am

2006-09-14 12:39:49 am

Never give up!

Wow, sorry to hear about the game's battery. Still, I'd like to say it's a surprise to me that you're considering bumping this game up - although it makes enough sense given the situation.

As far as me claiming I didn't know for sure - I know that not everyone keeps their run queue up to date (heck, I know I don't half the time). So I didn't want to state something that certainly turned out not to be accurate.

Eddie

2006-09-14 03:18:14 am

Speed-running this game shouldn't be too bad, as long as you're not at all concerned about what ending you get. The stuff below this is pretty much theory but I've beaten this game a few times so I don't think it'd be that bad.

www houseofwacks org/ogre has a lot of good info on it, and you can find out pretty much anything about the game there.

I think all you should need are three units, two to guard the base, the other to take care of the boss. Ideally the unit attacking the boss should include your leader, and the general plan would be to span Tarot cards (mostly gained from Jokers) to quickly dispatch of the bosses.

I don't think you'd have the luxury of playing too much with your units; For the leader unit, you'd definately want a Griffon or Hawkman to give it low sky, and then probably what ever powerful units you can manage to scrounge up.

Mages and up sound great, but if you're going for speed it might be difficult. The biggest problem with upgrading a wizard to a mage is the minimum requirement of needing at least 10 alignment, which may or may not be difficult to do. Getting any upgrades might entirely depend on random luck; You'll probably have a low reputation however, and I believe there's a few you can pick up.

Go with the 'Goodly' Opinion Leader, the one that gets 3 Slash's in the front row. He'll be able to do the best damage that way.

You can probably nab a few random items on your way to conquering various places. The items given are completely random, so you might get some +3 Str piece of crap, or a +17 Holy weapon of awesomeness. You can reset until you get something you're happy with, the page linked above has stats for all the weapons and armor found.

Basic strategy would be to head to and liberate the shop on the map, and load up on Jokers, and probably a few heals or various kinds. Using Tarot cards to quickly demolish any enemies that come at you (there'll always be a certain number of units who will go for you. The rest should head to your base or the shop town you liberated), snake your way around to the boss and unload thems tarots.

Your Opinion Leader should gain levels like mad, I'm a little unsure how the rest of his party will fare. Leader tactic would probably be the best. Really, class progression will all depend on how each indiviuals charisma and alignment develop.

The biggest problem will of course be fighting the final boss, since you'll probably need to go through a LOT of tarot cards. Still, you shoudl be beating the maps pretty quickly, so the goth bonus should keep them jokers flowing.

- Eddie

Speed-running this game shouldn't be too bad, as long as you're not at all concerned about what ending you get. The stuff below this is pretty much theory but I've beaten this game a few times so I don't think it'd be that bad.

www houseofwacks org/ogre has a lot of good info on it, and you can find out pretty much anything about the game there.

I think all you should need are three units, two to guard the base, the other to take care of the boss. Ideally the unit attacking the boss should include your leader, and the general plan would be to span Tarot cards (mostly gained from Jokers) to quickly dispatch of the bosses.

I don't think you'd have the luxury of playing too much with your units; For the leader unit, you'd definately want a Griffon or Hawkman to give it low sky, and then probably what ever powerful units you can manage to scrounge up.

Mages and up sound great, but if you're going for speed it might be difficult. The biggest problem with upgrading a wizard to a mage is the minimum requirement of needing at least 10 alignment, which may or may not be difficult to do. Getting any upgrades might entirely depend on random luck; You'll probably have a low reputation however, and I believe there's a few you can pick up.

Go with the 'Goodly' Opinion Leader, the one that gets 3 Slash's in the front row. He'll be able to do the best damage that way.

You can probably nab a few random items on your way to conquering various places. The items given are completely random, so you might get some +3 Str piece of crap, or a +17 Holy weapon of awesomeness. You can reset until you get something you're happy with, the page linked above has stats for all the weapons and armor found.

Basic strategy would be to head to and liberate the shop on the map, and load up on Jokers, and probably a few heals or various kinds. Using Tarot cards to quickly demolish any enemies that come at you (there'll always be a certain number of units who will go for you. The rest should head to your base or the shop town you liberated), snake your way around to the boss and unload thems tarots.

Your Opinion Leader should gain levels like mad, I'm a little unsure how the rest of his party will fare. Leader tactic would probably be the best. Really, class progression will all depend on how each indiviuals charisma and alignment develop.

The biggest problem will of course be fighting the final boss, since you'll probably need to go through a LOT of tarot cards. Still, you shoudl be beating the maps pretty quickly, so the goth bonus should keep them jokers flowing.

- Eddie

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-09-14 03:46:15 am

2006-09-14 03:41:42 am

Never give up!

To give you an idea of how important luck is in this game - I once got a Stone of Dragos on the SECOND MAP (this from a defeated enemy unit). And also the Angel's Wing equipment (this one from the buried treasure). Both were in the same playthrough of that map. I think I've also gotten an Undead Staff as early as the fifth map I've played.

In addition, getting the right Tarot Cards from liberation can have dire consequences - suppose, for instance, you drew a Sun card right before facing Sirius on the Lake Jannenia map. Now suppose in another try you drew a Moon card right before that very same fight. Let's also assume you have the same well-built, strong unit in both cases. The first try would give you a very quick, one-skirmish boss fight probably, while the second would likely take more than one skirmish and involve reviving numerous soldiers - both of which have fairly negative impacts on a speedrun. (That's a rare example that could have positive outcomes, though.)

Other examples that are fully negative or fully positive escape my memory at this moment, although I'll think of them eventually.

And if you need a guide for the game outside of the site mentioned by Eddie (I'll check it eventually), BSulpher's guide on GameFAQs is also quite comprehensive.

To give you an idea of how important luck is in this game - I once got a Stone of Dragos on the SECOND MAP (this from a defeated enemy unit).  And also the Angel's Wing equipment (this one from the buried treasure).  Both were in the same playthrough of that map.  I think I've also gotten an Undead Staff as early as the fifth map I've played.

In addition, getting the right Tarot Cards from liberation can have dire consequences - suppose, for instance, you drew a Sun card right before facing Sirius on the Lake Jannenia map.  Now suppose in another try you drew a Moon card right before that very same fight.  Let's also assume you have the same well-built, strong unit in both cases.  The first try would give you a very quick, one-skirmish boss fight probably, while the second would likely take more than one skirmish and involve reviving numerous soldiers - both of which have fairly negative impacts on a speedrun.  (That's a rare example that could have positive outcomes, though.)

Other examples that are fully negative or fully positive escape my memory at this moment, although I'll think of them eventually.

And if you need a guide for the game outside of the site mentioned by Eddie (I'll check it eventually), BSulpher's guide on GameFAQs is also quite comprehensive.

Eddie

2006-09-14 04:06:06 pm

Actually that entire Sirius thing could be something to look into. Werewolves are powerful units, and it shouldn't be too hard to get two in your unit to back up your Opinion Leader in the front row (3 attacks at night is mighty powerful).

- Eddie

Dragondarch

Edit history:

Dragondarch: 2006-09-14 04:13:21 pm

2006-09-14 04:08:50 pm

Pudding%

Not an issue bumping it up...it was #3 anyway (after BoF 2/1).

Where to start...

Tarot Cards:
Obviously important, but overly relying on them I believe would spell disaster in the endgame. Since only the Opinion Leader get XP for Tarot kills, everyone else's levels would suffer. Trying to on a late game boss with severly underlevelled troops wouldn't be possible. They'd more or less one shot everyone save for the opinion leader, who would then be the target of all attacks.

With that said, I think the cards should compliment the assault group with whoever they're attacking. Using the correct element for attacks and beefing up the party itself would I think be the best strategy.

Groups:
I'm thinking 2 active fighting units - one guarding the base and one assaulting the enemy. I'm honestly thinking of NOT including the Opinion Leader. While he's definitely good early game, he gets outshined later on. Plus I'll be grabbing people throughout the game to replace the assault group's weaker members.

Now, I'm also thinking of a support group for the assault group...it will consist of some random party leader, and 2 "high sky" units. This unit doesn't fight - when the assault group is moving, it'll trade one high sky unit to the assault group until a fight is initiated, at which point I pause and trade the high sky unit back and fight as usual.

The "Liberating" unit will include the Opinion Leader. Since his stats affect the strength of Tarot Cards, having him artificially raise his by drawing Cards is a plus. If I get the Goodly Lord (Icecloud/Banish) he should start around 70 for both ALI and CHA.

If more Liberating Units are needed they will be created - this would be for reputation purposes.

Route:
1 - Castle of Warren
2 - Sharom
3 - Sharom District
4 - Lake Jannenia
5 - Slums of Zenobia
6 - Island Avalon
7 - Diaspola
8 - Valley of Kastro
9 - City of Malano
10 - Shangrila
11 - Fort Allamoot
12 - Dalmuhd Desert
13 - Fort Shulamana
14 - City of Xanadu
15 - Zeteginea
16 - Temple Shalina

Characters:
Basically, I use the route above to obtain decent units in a quick manner.
Lans/Warren after the tutorial stage, obviously.
Canopus/Gilbert in Sharom District. (Requires above average Reputation for the Wing)
Ashe/Lyon in Slums of Zenobia.
Aisha in Island Avalon.
Norn in Diaspola. (Requires high reputation [may be above average] and possibly high "feel good" stats)
Rauny in Valley of Kastro. (high Reputation)
Tristan in City of Malano. (High Reputation and Key from Slyms of Zenobia)
Debonair in Shangrila. (Requires Norn)

The basic idea is to have the strongest units on the assault group, and the weaker ones on base defense. This means when I get someone new, I replace someone on the assault group, and they go to the base defense group.

Now, some will be traded off at times depending on the stage. This will be something I have to work on.

I'll work on some stages later and see if I can't come up with some basic strats.

Not an issue bumping it up...it was #3 anyway (after BoF 2/1).

Where to start...

[b]Tarot Cards:[/b]
Obviously important, but overly relying on them I believe would spell disaster in the endgame. Since only the Opinion Leader get XP for Tarot kills, everyone else's levels would suffer. Trying to on a late game boss with severly underlevelled troops wouldn't be possible. They'd more or less one shot everyone save for the opinion leader, who would then be the target of all attacks.

With that said, I think the cards should [i]compliment[/i] the assault group with whoever they're attacking. Using the correct element for attacks and beefing up the party itself would I think be the best strategy.

[b]Groups:[/b]
I'm thinking 2 active fighting units - one guarding the base and one assaulting the enemy. I'm honestly thinking of NOT including the Opinion Leader. While he's definitely good early game, he gets outshined later on. Plus I'll be grabbing people throughout the game to replace the assault group's weaker members.

Now, I'm also thinking of a support group for the assault group...it will consist of some random party leader, and 2 "high sky" units. This unit doesn't fight - when the assault group is moving, it'll trade one high sky unit to the assault group until a fight is initiated, at which point I pause and trade the high sky unit back and fight as usual.

The "Liberating" unit will include the Opinion Leader. Since his stats affect the strength of Tarot Cards, having him artificially raise his by drawing Cards is a plus. If I get the Goodly Lord (Icecloud/Banish) he [i]should[/i] start around 70 for both ALI and CHA.

If more Liberating Units are needed they will be created - this would be for reputation purposes.

[b]Route:[/b]
1 - Castle of Warren
2 - Sharom
3 - Sharom District
4 - Lake Jannenia
5 - Slums of Zenobia
6 - Island Avalon
7 - Diaspola
8 - Valley of Kastro
9 - City of Malano
10 - Shangrila
11 - Fort Allamoot
12 - Dalmuhd Desert
13 - Fort Shulamana
14 - City of Xanadu
15 - Zeteginea
16 - Temple Shalina

[b]Characters:[/b]
Basically, I use the route above to obtain decent units in a quick manner.
Lans/Warren after the tutorial stage, obviously.
Canopus/Gilbert in Sharom District. (Requires above average Reputation for the Wing)
Ashe/Lyon in Slums of Zenobia.
Aisha in Island Avalon.
Norn in Diaspola. (Requires high reputation [may be above average] and possibly high "feel good" stats)
Rauny in Valley of Kastro. (high Reputation)
Tristan in City of Malano. (High Reputation and Key from Slyms of Zenobia)
Debonair in Shangrila. (Requires Norn)

The basic idea is to have the strongest units on the assault group, and the weaker ones on base defense. This means when I get someone new, I replace someone on the assault group, and they go to the base defense group.

Now, some will be traded off at times depending on the stage. This will be something I have to work on.

I'll work on some stages later and see if I can't come up with some basic strats.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-09-14 07:54:22 pm

2006-09-14 07:46:17 pm

Never give up!

Hmmmm.... let's see what I can think of for early areas.

You get the same cards for which you were asked questions at the beginning (plus the one you draw randomly right after those questions). I say do your best to get the Fool and World cards in that initial set, as well as either Hermit or Judgement (I accidentally said Justice earlier, which might also work).

As far as fighting Warren: Nothing special except fight him in the daytime - your attacks are stronger then, especially if you got the 'goodly' Opinion Leader set. Please don't waste cards on Warren, though.

I know I frequently get a water unit with a pair of Octopus soldiers and a leader unit (the latter of which I find insignificant, but Octopus soldiers can't lead so an extra unit is needed). If you're going to disband a lot of units, don't disband the water unit yet.

For the second map: I don't know whether Lans or Warren should lead the attacking unit, but I'm going to say Warren for now. For your main attacking unit, if you were lucky enough to have a Dollmage leader in any other unit, disband the unit with the Dollmage leader and put that Dollmage in the attacking unit - this early on, being able to hit everything on the field is worth it. No need for Tarot Cards on Usad, I think, since he's in the front row. Don't stick around for a dragon here - they're too time-consuming to find and start as level 1 wimps. Not worth the cost in a speedrun IMO.

For the third map: Remember how I said not to disband the water unit? I suggest you use that unit to get to the city where Canopus is, and have a unit with a Griffon (I don't care how they spell 'griffon' in this game - this is how I always spell it) get to the hidden Roshian Temple. Once you go through the whole deal with Canopus, go ahead and finish the scenario and forgive Gilbert. And say hello to your new air units while you're at it. (NOW I think you can disband that water unit if you feel it is necessary.)

If you need to use a Tarot card on Gilbert, I find that Hermit does insane damage, which is why I suggested that card to be gotten in the first set. Although I should also give honorable mention to Judgement, which may actually be stronger because Gilbert and his two Wyrms are quite weak to White Magic. I'll think of the best places to use those first Fool and World cards later.

....oh, before I forget, all damage-dealing Tarot cards should be used as early in the battle as possible, to lower the chance that the experience goes to the Opinion Leader.

Hmmmm.... let's see what I can think of for early areas.

You get the same cards for which you were asked questions at the beginning (plus the one you draw randomly right after those questions).  I say do your best to get the Fool and World cards in that initial set, as well as either Hermit or Judgement (I accidentally said Justice earlier, which might also work).

As far as fighting Warren: Nothing special except fight him in the daytime - your attacks are stronger then, especially if you got the 'goodly' Opinion Leader set.  Please don't waste cards on Warren, though.

I know I frequently get a water unit with a pair of Octopus soldiers and a leader unit (the latter of which I find insignificant, but Octopus soldiers can't lead so an extra unit is needed).  If you're going to disband a lot of units, don't disband the water unit yet.

For the second map: I don't know whether Lans or Warren should lead the attacking unit, but I'm going to say Warren for now.  For your main attacking unit, if you were lucky enough to have a Dollmage leader in any other unit, disband the unit with the Dollmage leader and put that Dollmage in the attacking unit - this early on, being able to hit everything on the field is worth it.  No need for Tarot Cards on Usad, I think, since he's in the front row.  Don't stick around for a dragon here - they're too time-consuming to find and start as level 1 wimps.  Not worth the cost in a speedrun IMO.

For the third map: Remember how I said not to disband the water unit?  I suggest you use that unit to get to the city where Canopus is, and have a unit with a Griffon (I don't care how they spell 'griffon' in this game - this is how I always spell it) get to the hidden Roshian Temple.  Once you go through the whole deal with Canopus, go ahead and finish the scenario and forgive Gilbert.  And say hello to your new air units while you're at it.  (NOW I think you can disband that water unit if you feel it is necessary.)

If you need to use a Tarot card on Gilbert, I find that Hermit does insane damage, which is why I suggested that card to be gotten in the first set.  Although I should also give honorable mention to Judgement, which may actually be stronger because Gilbert and his two Wyrms are quite weak to White Magic.  I'll think of the best places to use those first Fool and World cards later.

....oh, before I forget, all damage-dealing Tarot cards should be used as early in the battle as possible, to lower the chance that the experience goes to the Opinion Leader.

Dragondarch

Edit history:

Dragondarch: 2006-09-14 11:24:27 pm

2006-09-14 11:22:59 pm

Pudding%

Quote:

For the third map: Remember how I said not to disband the water unit? I suggest you use that unit to get to the city where Canopus is, and have a unit with a Griffon (I don't care how they spell 'griffon' in this game - this is how I always spell it) get to the hidden Roshian Temple. Once you go through the whole deal with Canopus, go ahead and finish the scenario and forgive Gilbert. And say hello to your new air units while you're at it. (NOW I think you can disband that water unit if you feel it is necessary.)

If you need to use a Tarot card on Gilbert, I find that Hermit does insane damage, which is why I suggested that card to be gotten in the first set. Although I should also give honorable mention to Judgement, which may actually be stronger because Gilbert and his two Wyrms are quite weak to White Magic. I'll think of the best places to use those first Fool and World cards later.

Beastmen actually have a Fire weakness, so Magician would work the best (although Judgement is a good honorable mention).

As for the liberating in Sharom District...I always seem to start with 2 extra Gryphons, so those would be key in getting to those towns quickly. I need to double check...(/starts sifting through the endless stack of notebooks)...nope. Thought that one of the tier 1 units outside of Eaglemen/Ravenmen could hire Gryphons or Wyrms, but nope.

So as it stands, I have to wait until I have Canopus anyway, so the main group won't need flight for this area.

Quote:

....oh, before I forget, all damage-dealing Tarot cards should be used as early in the battle as possible, to lower the chance that the experience goes to the Opinion Leader.

Yes, but I don't mind them killing off some lesser units, since the higher the Opinions Leader's stats, the more damage the Cards deal - just so long as everyone in the assault group gets a level.

[quote] For the third map: Remember how I said not to disband the water unit?  I suggest you use that unit to get to the city where Canopus is, and have a unit with a Griffon (I don't care how they spell 'griffon' in this game - this is how I always spell it) get to the hidden Roshian Temple.  Once you go through the whole deal with Canopus, go ahead and finish the scenario and forgive Gilbert.  And say hello to your new air units while you're at it.  (NOW I think you can disband that water unit if you feel it is necessary.)
 
If you need to use a Tarot card on Gilbert, I find that Hermit does insane damage, which is why I suggested that card to be gotten in the first set.  Although I should also give honorable mention to Judgement, which may actually be stronger because Gilbert and his two Wyrms are quite weak to White Magic.  I'll think of the best places to use those first Fool and World cards later. [/quote]

Beastmen actually have a Fire weakness, so Magician would work the best (although Judgement is a good honorable mention).

As for the liberating in Sharom District...I always seem to start with 2 extra Gryphons, so those would be key in getting to those towns quickly. I need to double check...(/starts sifting through the endless stack of notebooks)...nope. Thought that one of the tier 1 units outside of Eaglemen/Ravenmen could hire Gryphons or Wyrms, but nope.

So as it stands, I have to wait until I have Canopus anyway, so the main group won't need flight for this area.

[quote] ....oh, before I forget, all damage-dealing Tarot cards should be used as early in the battle as possible, to lower the chance that the experience goes to the Opinion Leader.[/quote]

Yes, but I don't mind them killing off some lesser units, since the higher the Opinions Leader's stats, the more damage the Cards deal - just so long as everyone in the assault group gets a level.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-09-15 03:14:44 am

2006-09-15 01:11:42 am

Never give up!

I had stated Hermit as the Tarot Card to choose because I momentarily forgot you were going solely after the leader in boss fights. How that happened is beyond me. Also, I had personal experience with Hermit doing 45+ damage each to Gilbert and both of his Wyrms in one shot. In all actuality, looking at Beastman stats again, you could probably use any of the damage-dealing cards except for Chariot or Devil (Gilbert's resistance to physical and to Black Magic is nearly half for each) and still get acceptable results.

With Lake Jannenia (I note that if you return after beating it, the game calls it 'Lake Jansenia' - what's up with that?), I have two possibilities:
-If you're going to fight Sirius at night, make sure to find the hidden temple that gives you the Rune Axe (you may be able to skip that if you found a different White Magic weapon such as the Mystic Mace). Then give your strongest Knight that weapon. Then have a field day, because Sirius has horrible resistance to White Magic in his werewolf form. Just. Plain. HORRIBLE. Resistance. (I think only the undead units - those with 0 HP, plus the Lich and Vampire* - and the Devil have worse White Magic resistance.)
-If you're going to fight him during the day, get your best group and fight like any other boss. Note that his weakest resistances in human form are Thunder and Fire, but not by much.

In either case, you'll want to liberate the right towns (I forget which two, although I believe they are both in the northern portions of the map) to say 'Yes' to helping the townspeople and 'No' to helping Sirius. You state in your route that you are reliant on Reputation, and this is a place to get some of it. Also, make sure to use a Fool card during the boss fight, because those four Amazons can do a surprising amount of damage.

Nothing I can think of yet for Slums of Zenobia. I'll get back to you on that.

* I include the Lich and the Vampire as 'undead' units because of the fact a lot of roleplaying systems cite them as such. I know they don't count quite the same in Ogre Battle because they have hit points and thus aren't exactly subject to the same rules as the 0 HP undead - although I should note that as far as resistances, both of them are very close to those 0 HP undead in terms of surviving punishment.

I had stated Hermit as the Tarot Card to choose because I momentarily forgot you were going solely after the leader in boss fights.  How that happened is beyond me.  Also, I had personal experience with Hermit doing 45+ damage each to Gilbert and both of his Wyrms in one shot.  In all actuality, looking at Beastman stats again, you could probably use any of the damage-dealing cards except for Chariot or Devil (Gilbert's resistance to physical and to Black Magic is nearly half for each) and still get acceptable results.

With Lake Jannenia (I note that if you return after beating it, the game calls it 'Lake Jansenia' - what's up with that?), I have two possibilities:
-If you're going to fight Sirius at night, make sure to find the hidden temple that gives you the Rune Axe (you may be able to skip that if you found a different White Magic weapon such as the Mystic Mace).  Then give your strongest Knight that weapon.  Then have a field day, because Sirius has horrible resistance to White Magic in his werewolf form. Just.  Plain.  HORRIBLE.  Resistance.  (I think only the undead units - those with 0 HP, plus the Lich and Vampire* - and the Devil have worse White Magic resistance.)
-If you're going to fight him during the day, get your best group and fight like any other boss.  Note that his weakest resistances in human form are Thunder and Fire, but not by much.

In either case, you'll want to liberate the right towns (I forget which two, although I believe they are both in the northern portions of the map) to say 'Yes' to helping the townspeople and 'No' to helping Sirius.  You state in your route that you are reliant on Reputation, and this is a place to get some of it.  Also, make sure to use a Fool card during the boss fight, because those four Amazons can do a surprising amount of damage.

Nothing I can think of yet for Slums of Zenobia.  I'll get back to you on that.

[size=10]* I include the Lich and the Vampire as 'undead' units because of the fact a lot of roleplaying systems cite them as such.  I know they don't count quite the same in Ogre Battle because they have hit points and thus aren't exactly subject to the same rules as the 0 HP undead - although I should note that as far as resistances, both of them are very close to those 0 HP undead in terms of surviving punishment.[/size]

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-09-17 10:01:14 pm

2006-09-17 03:03:56 pm

Never give up!

Not a full report on the Slums of Zenobia (I didn't get to complete it yet in casual play - Warren from my own army is frustrating me beyond belief), but I do have some useful information.

You absolutely need characters who can fly. At least one for each unit you're using (maybe not base defense groups, though). Gilbert's Wyrms, any Griffons you have left, and Canopus can handle this (the former two can even fly the Opinion Leader and some Large units, while Canopus can only fly all small units besides the Opinion Leader). Also, if you're..... wait, your notes suggest you're going to hire Lyon anyway. He comes with two dragons - both are ready to become red dragons immediately, but if one stays in the attacking group long enough, I suggest making it evil and going for a black dragon instead. Ends up much stronger last I checked.

Pack a couple of Fool cards for the boss - I say a couple because you'll probably have to go more than one round with Debonair. Also pack some Emperor, Devil, and/or Hermit cards for the boss fight here.

Edit: An update on Slums of Zenobia, and I believe this one's all I know.

A total of six buried treasures on this map - BSulpher's guide lists every one of them, but I can help out in this regard if necessary.

If you find the hidden Roshian Temple, you won't need to bother having at least one flier in the unit that combats Debonair. Important for what I'm going to mention next.

Also, it turns out Ashe is stronger than I first believed he would be. He's able to take out Debonair in one round with a little luck. Here's how I fought it:
-Before the fight, demote the two Knights that tag along with Ashe and then promote both of them to Samurai (at their starting stats, this is possible). Then rearrange the party so one Samurai is in the back, Ashe is in the front, the other Samurai is to Ashe's left, and the Rock Golem is to Ashe's right.
-As soon as the fight starts, use a Fool card to get rid of the Red Dragons.
-After a couple of attacks, bust out a Devil card. When I fought Debonair, it dealt 87 damage - your results may vary but it looks to still be pretty high.
-After everyone's gone through their first attack, and maybe one or two units on either side goes through with their second, whip out another attack card. I used Tower, but I read from BSulpher's guide (yeah, I read a lot of info on this game from that guide) that Hermit is best. I wound up having to strike Debonair a couple more times to win (and got lucky in doing so), so Hermit might be all it takes to finish him (I don't know why I said 'her' before) in the other case.

Not a full report on the Slums of Zenobia (I didn't get to complete it yet in casual play - Warren from my own army is frustrating me beyond belief), but I do have some useful information.

You absolutely need characters who can fly.  At least one for each unit you're using (maybe not base defense groups, though).  Gilbert's Wyrms, any Griffons you have left, and Canopus can handle this (the former two can even fly the Opinion Leader and some Large units, while Canopus can only fly all small units besides the Opinion Leader).  Also, if you're..... wait, your notes suggest you're going to hire Lyon anyway.  He comes with two dragons - both are ready to become red dragons immediately, but if one stays in the attacking group long enough, I suggest making it evil and going for a black dragon instead.  Ends up much stronger last I checked.

Pack a couple of Fool cards for the boss - I say a couple because you'll probably have to go more than one round with Debonair.  Also pack some Emperor, Devil, and/or Hermit cards for the boss fight here.

Edit:  An update on Slums of Zenobia, and I believe this one's all I know.

A total of six buried treasures on this map - BSulpher's guide lists every one of them, but I can help out in this regard if necessary.

If you find the hidden Roshian Temple, you won't need to bother having at least one flier in the unit that combats Debonair.  Important for what I'm going to mention next.

Also, it turns out Ashe is stronger than I first believed he would be.  He's able to take out Debonair in one round with a little luck.  Here's how I fought it:
-Before the fight, demote the two Knights that tag along with Ashe and then promote both of them to Samurai (at their starting stats, this is possible).  Then rearrange the party so one Samurai is in the back, Ashe is in the front, the other Samurai is to Ashe's left, and the Rock Golem is to Ashe's right.
-As soon as the fight starts, use a Fool card to get rid of the Red Dragons.
-After a couple of attacks, bust out a Devil card.  When I fought Debonair, it dealt 87 damage - your results may vary but it looks to still be pretty high.
-After everyone's gone through their first attack, and maybe one or two units on either side goes through with their second, whip out another attack card.  I used Tower, but I read from BSulpher's guide (yeah, I read a lot of info on this game from that guide) that Hermit is best.  I wound up having to strike Debonair a couple more times to win (and got lucky in doing so), so Hermit might be all it takes to finish him (I don't know why I said 'her' before) in the other case.

Enhasa

2006-11-05 03:48:01 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

I love this game too much.

I think an any% run would actually be kinda trivial for the most part, and not very difficult. Basically you would want to get a gryphon or wyvern for high sky, then for every stage, just fly to the boss and bash. Tarot cards are of course the key to softening the enemies up. BTW, I think this game would make for a good SS run since it's possible. Or you could go the segmented route and try for luck with random treasures. Either is fine.

To find out which succession of stages is the fastest, there are a lot of good OB sites like houseofwacks posted earlier.

I agree with everything Eddie says, but I don't think there's really a need for more than the one boss-killing group, and the base guarding group.

DD, I don't see why you wouldn't include the OL's group, since it deploys for free. I don't think the helper group is needed for the assault group, since Quest is terrible at designing menus as always and it takes too long to bother with that. The only battles I think you should be fighting in general, are boss battles, and fights (against high sky enemy groups) to guard the base.

I don't see the need for all the special characters too. They take time to recruit, and aren't that much better or anything. It's more important I think, to stick with the same guys and get them high leveled. (If the gryphon isn't cutting it, Canopus could be worth it for the low sky.) Also, avoiding most of these characters ties into...

Now, what I actually think would be awesome and interesting, would be a 100% run, since you would need to actually play some of the maps. I guess you could think of this as a "best ending" run with all the characters and other things you need. What I would add to this, and just because, is getting Deneb and Lyon. These 2 characters are unnecessary for best ending IIRC, but getting Deneb especially (while doing everything else) is tricky and interesting. Plus, I like pissing off the villagers, saving the recurring series character, getting the canon ending (she can't be dead if she wants to appear in later games after all), and best of all... proving all those Prima-following sheep wrong, who say you can't get best ending if you forgive her. Yep.

I love this game too much.

I think an any% run would actually be kinda trivial for the most part, and not very difficult. Basically you would want to get a gryphon or wyvern for high sky, then for every stage, just fly to the boss and bash. Tarot cards are of course the key to softening the enemies up. BTW, I think this game would make for a good SS run since it's possible. Or you could go the segmented route and try for luck with random treasures. Either is fine.

To find out which succession of stages is the fastest, there are a lot of good OB sites like houseofwacks posted earlier.

I agree with everything Eddie says, but I don't think there's really a need for more than the one boss-killing group, and the base guarding group.

DD, I don't see why you wouldn't include the OL's group, since it deploys for free. I don't think the helper group is needed for the assault group, since Quest is terrible at designing menus as always and it takes too long to bother with that. The only battles I think you should be fighting in general, are boss battles, and fights (against high sky enemy groups) to guard the base.

I don't see the need for all the special characters too. They take time to recruit, and aren't [i]that[/i] much better or anything. It's more important I think, to stick with the same guys and get them high leveled. (If the gryphon isn't cutting it, Canopus could be worth it for the low sky.) Also, avoiding most of these characters ties into...

Now, what I actually think would be awesome and interesting, would be a 100% run, since you would need to actually play some of the maps. I guess you could think of this as a "best ending" run with all the characters and other things you need. What I would add to this, and just because, is getting Deneb and Lyon. These 2 characters are unnecessary for best ending IIRC, but getting Deneb especially (while doing everything else) is tricky and interesting. Plus, I like pissing off the villagers, saving the recurring series character, getting the canon ending (she can't be dead if she wants to appear in later games after all), and best of all... proving all those Prima-following sheep wrong, who say you can't get best ending if you forgive her. Yep.

Dragondarch

2006-11-05 01:07:50 pm

Pudding%

I've actually contemplated a 100% run (best ending, all characters and such) but haven't had time to research yet. I may do both for the hell of it.

Also, the only characters that are a bitch are mostly Canopus/Gilbert, since they require the most traveling. Ashe/Lyon just require a couple quick high sky group deployments, Aisha is at a temple that's DIRECTLY en route to the boss (high sky route anyway), Norn joins after the boss fight (same for Debonair), Rauny is almost en route...can easily just take a quick detour since that will keep my assault group out of the main flight path. Tristan is pretty much the same thing except I need the Key, which I can't remember if you can get during the Zenbia stage, or if you have to wait until after.

At any rate, I won't be testing anything until after Lufia II is finished, and this will be next in line thanks to my copy's battery.

Enhasa

2006-11-06 04:42:05 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

IIRC Saradin is one that's more involved, since you have to go around to different temples before you get him.

Some of the Zodiac treasures and things like that for best ending might require some effort or backtracking too. In cases like that, it might be worth doing things like getting Brunhild later so that you can be overleveled while doing it.

Dragondarch

2006-11-06 12:07:40 pm

Pudding%

Quote:

IIRC Saradin is one that's more involved, since you have to go around to different temples before you get him.

Some of the Zodiac treasures and things like that for best ending might require some effort or backtracking too. In cases like that, it might be worth doing things like getting Brunhild later so that you can be overleveled while doing it.

Thus one of the reasons I wouldn't be considering him for any%. Note that Aisha/Norn can be switched back and forth between Shaman and Valkyrie/Muse, depending on which is needed.
Also, I think the opinion leader will have his uses on all 3 groups (assault, defense, liberation) depending on the map. If I go with the Banish/Icecloud type, it'll give me a targetted Holy attack, which aren't exactly common. Some other units can be substituted in as well on an "as needed basis."

Enhasa

2006-11-07 03:19:34 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Oh, I was talking about 100% in my last post. I thought you were too, since I don't think most special characters are worth getting. Better to just bash with the same group and keep them well leveled, I think. Canopus's advantage is that he is low sky, and him plus another small unit would be much better than one high sky unit, if it comes to that.

I think for any% complicated strategies are not really needed. Like I don't think healers would be very useful, for example.

Out of the 4 Opinion Leader types, I think the only 2 to consider are 3 Slice/1 Ianuki (my recommendation) and 2 Banish/1 Icecloud. Banish is pretty useful early on to kill undead.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-03-21 10:17:14 pm

2007-03-21 07:26:15 pm

Never give up!

Since it's going to be a while before Dragondarch gets to the next segment in his Lufia 2 run (curse you, Camu!), I thought I'd present some other opinions concerning this game. Heck, we might have a whole strategy completely ready before Camu gives up the goods in the Lufia 2 run.

Maybe re-promoting some of your units would be a smarter idea than hoping for drops. I'll take Warren as an example. If you think keeping his alignment from bottoming out will be hard, or you think forcing the drop of two items won't be a good idea, then level him up to level 6 and turn him into a Ninja. They can still promote even if their alignment bottoms out IIRC, and they still get good magic (okay, okay, I know it's called Ninjitsu, but it's elemental attacks regardless) from the back row.

I'd recommend bunching special characters into a single unit. This doesn't help much until Canopus comes along, though. After Sharom District, I say put your four special characters into your main unit and add one other small character. (As far as Gilbert, take him out of Beastman and turn him into either a Wild Man or a Knight, depending on what his alignment winds up - it'll probably be Wild Man initially.)

At the beginning, I say get rid of just about any level 2 units you have. Keep no more than two or three of each of the 'small' character types, and only those with the highest stat in either Strength or Intelligence (depending on what unit we're talking here). The reason for this is because you have a limit of 100 units (IMO, each unit has GOT to represent more than one actual soldier, because there's no way a rebellion of 100 or fewer soldiers could topple an empire) and we want to make sure we don't have problems with having too many units to fit a special character's unit in later. Of course, my point is probably moot if we find that we can fit them all without dropping anyone early.

Don't concern yourself with neutral characters AT ALL. I don't care who they are (especially since your route skips Deneb's Garden). This includes werewolves (if you even bother with having one, which - considering the strategy - might be a little iffy), who should be gotten by having your strongest fighter(s) die against Sirius.

Will come up with others later - I'm trying to force myself to complete this game.

Edit: Another point I thought of.

When deciding which units to relegate to base defense and which units to put in your main attacking unit, pay serious consideration to what elements the characters can use, and not just to actual damage ability. This is the whole reason a lot of my discussion has focused on Warren - even without any class promotions (or the demotion-then-promotion to Ninja that I mentioned earlier), he can still hit many more weaknesses (which will usually result in better damage over the course of the game) than, say, Lans or Gilbert. (I would have said Warren's better than Canopus, but Canopus is good for very different reasons.)

Since it's going to be a while before Dragondarch gets to the next segment in his Lufia 2 run (curse you, Camu!), I thought I'd present some other opinions concerning this game.  Heck, we might have a whole strategy completely ready before Camu gives up the goods in the Lufia 2 run.

Maybe re-promoting some of your units would be a smarter idea than hoping for drops.  I'll take Warren as an example.  If you think keeping his alignment from bottoming out will be hard, or you think forcing the drop of two items won't be a good idea, then level him up to level 6 and turn him into a Ninja.  They can still promote even if their alignment bottoms out IIRC, and they still get good magic (okay, okay, I know it's called Ninjitsu, but it's elemental attacks regardless) from the back row.

I'd recommend bunching special characters into a single unit.  This doesn't help much until Canopus comes along, though.  After Sharom District, I say put your four special characters into your main unit and add one other small character.  (As far as Gilbert, take him out of Beastman and turn him into either a Wild Man or a Knight, depending on what his alignment winds up - it'll probably be Wild Man initially.)

At the beginning, I say get rid of just about any level 2 units you have.  Keep no more than two or three of each of the 'small' character types, and only those with the highest stat in either Strength or Intelligence (depending on what unit we're talking here).  The reason for this is because you have a limit of 100 units (IMO, each unit has GOT to represent more than one actual soldier, because there's no way a rebellion of 100 or fewer soldiers could topple an empire) and we want to make sure we don't have problems with having too many units to fit a special character's unit in later.  Of course, my point is probably moot if we find that we can fit them all without dropping anyone early.

Don't concern yourself with neutral characters AT ALL.  I don't care who they are (especially since your route skips Deneb's Garden).  This includes werewolves (if you even bother with having one, which - considering the strategy - might be a little iffy), who should be gotten by having your strongest fighter(s) die against Sirius.

Will come up with others later - I'm trying to force myself to complete this game.

Edit: Another point I thought of.

When deciding which units to relegate to base defense and which units to put in your main attacking unit, pay serious consideration to what elements the characters can use, and not just to actual damage ability.  This is the whole reason a lot of my discussion has focused on Warren - even without any class promotions (or the demotion-then-promotion to Ninja that I mentioned earlier), he can still hit many more weaknesses (which will usually result in better damage over the course of the game) than, say, Lans or Gilbert.  (I would have said Warren's better than Canopus, but Canopus is good for very different reasons.)

Dragondarch

2007-03-26 06:58:36 pm

Pudding%

OK, I meant to reply to this a few days ago, seeing as it got me thinking a bit...but sleep deprivation FTMFL :-/

Anyway, to touch a bit on what you started:

First off, we need to know which special characters will be joining, and what classes they are. So, the route actually has to come ahead of everything.

I'm thinking:
1 - Castle of Warren (Lans, Warren)
2 - Sharom
3 - Sharom District (Canopus, Gilbert)
4 - Lake Jannenia
5 - Slums of Zenobia (Ashe, Lyon)
6 - Island Avalon (Aisha)
7 - Diaspola (Norn)
8 - Valley of Kastro (Rauny)
9 - City of Malano (Tristan)
10 - Shangrila (Debonair)
11 - Fort Allamoot
12 - Dalmuhd Desert
13 - Fort Shulamana
14 - City of Xanadu
15 - Zeteginea
16 - Temple Shalina

Now for a more detailed breakdown:

First off, I'm personally siding with creating the "Holy Lord" (Banish/IceCloud) since he starts with the highest ALI/CHA of all.

Secondly, Tarot cards will be used when need be. I'd rather have extra on hard for "tough" fights than to squander them just to make one fight go a bit faster.

Third: It may seem like I'm liberating a lot of towns, in some circumstances when I don't need to. IIRC liberating more towns during a map will net me more Goth upon completion (other factor being time passed). Depending on my money situation I may not bother liberating as much. Note, that I can also manipulate the items I get from "Buried Treasure" to worth more money rather than going for good stats if need be.

Castle of Warren:
Standard Tutorial. Liberate and fight Warren.
Preferrably force a Sun card to come up for one of the 3 liberations so I can fight Warren during the day rather than night. Also, stick Lord and Cleric in the front row for their Holy damage (plus high ALI makes them better during the day). They also seem to hit more often than the fighters.

Sharom:
Restucture Units. I'm thinking Warren plus the 2 level 4 Wizards from Lans' group and one of the Gryphons they give me. This is the main assault (MA) group.
Liberation group (LB) will be Lord/Gryphon/2 other high ALI units, probably Clerics.
Base Defense (BD) would be Lans plus whatever else I can scrounge up from what I started with. I doubt I'll have to deploy it for this map, though.
Strategy:
Have MA make a small detour to pick up the Buried Treasure (manipulate for something good, preferrably some with high INT for Warren) on the island in the center of the map, then beeline for Jindark.
LB will liberate Abdella (Maybe), then Valna (Shop), and finally the Roshian Temple in the Northeast (obtain HeroStar).
Usar:
Warren and co. should have no trouble killing him without Tarot Cards.

Sharom District:
No change in Unit Structure.
Strategy:
BD will be deployed this time, seeing as I need a little time to grab Canopus.
MA will grab the item on the island north of Percival (manipulate again), then liberate the Hidden Roshian Temple west of Percival (where Yulia is).
LB will start with Sagebard (IF I need the REP), followed by Bah'Wahl and Latingurue, then back to Bah'Wahl with the Wing. Canopus will be immediately deployed.
Gilbert:
Again, Warren and co. should be more than a match for this one without Tarots.

Lake Jannenia:
Switch off the Gryphon from the MA and replace it with Canopus and Gilbert. Probably Change Gilbert into a Ninja (less defense but more offense than Wild Man/Beast Man)
Take 2 highest ALI High Sky Units and make 2 LB groups. Lord (LB1) will be on one, other (LB2) will comprise of Clerics and anything else I have handy.
Base Defense probably won't change.
Strategy:
MA beelines for Elsrum.
BD will be deployed just in case.
LB2 will head east toward the hidden temple with the Rune Axe, and liberate Allephalb on the way.
LB1 will head northeast and liberate Antayla (REP), then whichever town has the other REP boost (I think it's Krasno Dale...but I need to double check). If there's time I can grab a couple more towns.
Sirius:
2 fight encounter. IIRC if I kill Sirius during the day, I lose REP. Best strategy I can think of would be to weaken him during the day, then immediately take him on at night while his HP are still low. Give the Rune Axe to Canopus since he has the best Hit%. Shouldn't be too difficult.

Continued in next post...

OK, I meant to reply to this a few days ago, seeing as it got me thinking a bit...but sleep deprivation FTMFL  :-/

Anyway, to touch a bit on what you started:

First off, we need to know which special characters will be joining, and what classes they are. So, the route actually has to come ahead of everything.

I'm thinking:
1 - Castle of Warren (Lans, Warren)
2 - Sharom
3 - Sharom District (Canopus, Gilbert)
4 - Lake Jannenia
5 - Slums of Zenobia (Ashe, Lyon)
6 - Island Avalon (Aisha)
7 - Diaspola (Norn)
8 - Valley of Kastro (Rauny)
9 - City of Malano (Tristan)
10 - Shangrila (Debonair)
11 - Fort Allamoot
12 - Dalmuhd Desert
13 - Fort Shulamana
14 - City of Xanadu
15 - Zeteginea
16 - Temple Shalina

Now for a more detailed breakdown:

First off, I'm personally siding with creating the "Holy Lord" (Banish/IceCloud) since he starts with the highest ALI/CHA of all.

Secondly, Tarot cards will be used when need be. I'd rather have extra on hard for "tough" fights than to squander them just to make one fight go a bit faster.

Third: It may seem like I'm liberating a lot of towns, in some circumstances when I don't need to. IIRC liberating more towns during a map will net me more Goth upon completion (other factor being time passed). Depending on my money situation I may not bother liberating as much. Note, that I can also manipulate the items I get from "Buried Treasure" to worth more money rather than going for good stats if need be.

[b]Castle of Warren[/b]:
Standard Tutorial. Liberate and fight Warren. 
Preferrably force a Sun card to come up for one of the 3 liberations so I can fight Warren during the day rather than night. Also, stick Lord and Cleric in the front row for their Holy damage (plus high ALI makes them better during the day). They also seem to hit more often than the fighters.

[b]Sharom[/b]:
Restucture Units. I'm thinking Warren plus the 2 level 4 Wizards from Lans' group and one of the Gryphons they give me. This is the main assault (MA) group.
Liberation group (LB) will be Lord/Gryphon/2 other high ALI units, probably Clerics.
Base Defense (BD) would be Lans plus whatever else I can scrounge up from what I started with. I doubt I'll have to deploy it for this map, though.
[i]Strategy[/i]:
Have MA make a small detour to pick up the Buried Treasure (manipulate for something good, preferrably some with high INT for Warren) on the island in the center of the map, then beeline for Jindark.
LB will liberate Abdella (Maybe), then Valna (Shop), and finally the Roshian Temple in the Northeast (obtain HeroStar).
[u]Usar[/u]:
Warren and co. should have no trouble killing him without Tarot Cards.

[b]Sharom District[/b]:
No change in Unit Structure.
[i]Strategy[/i]:
BD will be deployed this time, seeing as I need a little time to grab Canopus.
MA will grab the item on the island north of Percival (manipulate again), then liberate the Hidden Roshian Temple west of Percival (where Yulia is).
LB will start with Sagebard (IF I need the REP), followed by Bah'Wahl and Latingurue, then back to Bah'Wahl with the Wing. Canopus will be immediately deployed.
[u]Gilbert[/u]:
Again, Warren and co. should be more than a match for this one without Tarots.

[b]Lake Jannenia[/b]:
Switch off the Gryphon from the MA and replace it with Canopus and Gilbert. Probably Change Gilbert into a Ninja (less defense but more offense than Wild Man/Beast Man)
Take 2 highest ALI High Sky Units and make 2 LB groups. Lord (LB1) will be on one, other (LB2) will comprise of Clerics and anything else I have handy.
Base Defense probably won't change.
[i]Strategy[/i]:
MA beelines for Elsrum.
BD will be deployed just in case.
LB2 will head east toward the hidden temple with the Rune Axe, and liberate Allephalb on the way.
LB1 will head northeast and liberate Antayla (REP), then whichever town has the other REP boost (I think it's Krasno Dale...but I need to double check). If there's time I can grab a couple more towns.
[u]Sirius[/u]:
2 fight encounter. IIRC if I kill Sirius during the day, I lose REP. Best strategy I can think of would be to weaken him during the day, then immediately take him on at night while his HP are still low. Give the Rune Axe to Canopus since he has the best Hit%. Shouldn't be too difficult.

Continued in next post...

Dragondarch

2007-03-26 06:58:59 pm

Pudding%

Slums of Zenobia:
No reforming needed.
Strategy:
BD needs to be deployed, but I plan on waiting until after I've recruited Ashe/Lyon since I'll be needing their levels.
LB1 heads north, liberates Palma Nova (REP), grabs the item a bit further north, then liberates By'Roit and recruits Ashe. If time permits, grab the item west of By'Roit.
LB2 heads west and liberates Pruzen, then Anberg and recruits Lyon.
MA beelines for Zenobia. There should be plenty of time for the 2 LB groups to reach their respective destinations. If I'm in need of levels fight a couple groups (odds are that I'll need one or two at the very least). Hopefully, Warren will hit 10 after Debonair drops.
Debonair:
I need to have a Fool card by now...those Red Dragons need to be eliminated ASAP. Debonair himself shouldn't pose too much of a threat in terms of killing him, but I'll probably lose one or 2 characters in the process.
[i]I'll need to re-visit this stage to obtain the Key from Kal Robst. While that group is doing that, I'll be rounding up Buried Treasure with another unit(s).[/b]

Island Avalon:
MA will ditch Gilbert in favor of Lyon. Lyon will be switched to a Ninja just like Gilbert, but I'll need him able to switch to a Beast Master later on, so if he winds up in danger of dropping below 10 ALI I'll be switching him over..
BD will add Ashe, Gilbert, and Lord over weaker characters (this unit probably won't have seen too much action yet...Lans may even need to be replaced at this point). The point of adding the Lord is I need him to grab a few levels so Tarot Cards will still be effective.
LB1 and LB2 will be left alone (save for replacing the Lord).
Strategy:
MA obviously beelines for Amad. This will take them directly over the hidden Roshian Temple where Aisha is.
BD may need to be deployed.
LB will head north on a liberating spree. IIRC, enemy plains units will come from the east and not north.
Gares:
Again, I need a Fool card on hand to dispatch those Dragons. I'll probably wind up blowing multiple cards here, actually. I basically don't want to allow him to reach his 3rd action since that one's EvilDead.

Diaspola:
MA will drop one of the generic Wizards in favor of Aisha, who will be changed to a Valkyrie (the idea is to have her able to switch back and forth between Cleric and Valkyrie/Muse). Main reason being that her INT is quite a bit higher than any generic would be at this point, and Lightning damage is somewhat useful in this stage.
BD will pick up the generic Wizard, Lord will be put back on liberation duty.
LB1 will pick up Lord, and LB2 will remain unchanged.
Strategy:
MA will obviously beeline for Diaspola, and will also liberate the Roshian Temples near Poache and Diaspola as well.
BD will not be deployed. Nothing should even make it that far.
LB1 will head north to Me' Mak, then west/northwest to Ajan, and further to Somyul. Somyul is improtant.
LB2 will head west and liberate the Roshian Temple near Pelegue, grab the item north of it, and then liberate Pelegue itself. This group will have to wait at the Temple until LB1 liberates Somyul.
LB1 will re-visit Somyul and grab the Sentoul for later use, then grab the item to the northeast. If time permits, will also liberate Alkyshon, the last Roshian Temple, and Rimorge.
Norn:
All I need is a Fool card here. Norn is almost helpless without those Titans. Not worth wasting extra Tarots on her. Obviously recruit Norn after the battle.
This map will be revisited afterward to bring the Sentoul to Anglem. I can trade it for an Undead Staff.

Valley of Kastro:
MA will drop Aisha in favor of Norn.
BD will pick up Aisha.
LB1 and LB2 will not change.
Strategy:
MA beelines for Tash Kent.
BD may be needed.
LB1 will liberate Fuluhnze, grab the item to the west, then liberate the Roshian Temple Rauny is at.
LB2 will liberate Almalyk.
Ares:
Fool Card needed once again. Ares isn't anything that special, though.

City of Malano:
MA gains Rauny in place of Norn.
BD shouldn't even need to be deployed here
LB1 and LB2 will pick up the highest ALI units I have.
Strategy:
MA beelines for Malano.
LB1 needs to get to Bel Chelry. Thinking of having them grab Labenna, Lobeeg, the Roshian Temple to the South of there, Bolon Ya, then Bel Chelry. Tristan recruited.
LB2 will head west to Uhjine, a Roshian Temple, and Ajij. From there, they'll grab the 4 nearby items.
Baron Apros:
World and Fool cards will be needed here, badly. I can't afford to waste attacks on the Demons, and Apros can wreck some havoc with those spells of his.
I need to come back here and visit Malano for a Lexicon. While I'm grabbing that, I'll be sending another unit to grab the 5 item cluster in the southeast.
After that I need to re-visit Sharom and trade the Lexicon for an Undead Ring. Hellllllloooooo Lich!

Shangrila:
MA gets reformed. Canopus, Lyon, and the generic Wizard all get the boot, and Lyon is changed into a Beast Master is he isn't already. Tristan joins the MA as the frontline tank, Warren and Aisha (yes, Aisha) will be the other small units, and either a Wyrm, Gryphon, or Cockatris will accompany them for a High Sky movement type.
LB1 and LB2 will be combined. At this point liberation becomes a strictly monetary issue, and I have no idea ATM just how much I'll have at this point.
BD will just have the strongest units I have available.

Fort Allamoot:
MA gains a support unit. Please welcome MA2 to the stage! MA1 won't change, but MA2 will be formed of Debonair, Norn, Rauny, and a High Sky'er. This gives me a one-two punch in terms of offense.
The MAs won't be changing after this, seeing as anything not on them will be severely behind in levels.
LB may or may not be seeing much action.

After this point, it's pretty much a straightforward beatdown, seeing as there's nothing left to grab that's important. Mostly it'll go something like this:

MA and MA2 beeline for the enemy base.
LB will liberate crap if I need Goth.
BD will stay back and watch, probably won't even be deployed.

[b]Slums of Zenobia[/b]:
No reforming needed.
[i]Strategy[/i]:
BD needs to be deployed, but I plan on waiting until after I've recruited Ashe/Lyon since I'll be needing their levels.
LB1 heads north, liberates Palma Nova (REP), grabs the item a bit further north, then liberates By'Roit and recruits Ashe. If time permits, grab the item west of By'Roit.
LB2 heads west and liberates Pruzen, then Anberg and recruits Lyon.
MA beelines for Zenobia. There should be plenty of time for the 2 LB groups to reach their respective destinations. If I'm in need of levels fight a couple groups (odds are that I'll need one or two at the very least). Hopefully, Warren will hit 10 after Debonair drops.
[u]Debonair[/u]:
I need to have a Fool card by now...those Red Dragons need to be eliminated ASAP. Debonair himself shouldn't pose too much of a threat in terms of killing him, but I'll probably lose one or 2 characters in the process.
[i]I'll need to re-visit this stage to obtain the Key from Kal Robst. While that group is doing that, I'll be rounding up Buried Treasure with another unit(s).[/b]

[b]Island Avalon[/b]:
MA will ditch Gilbert in favor of Lyon. Lyon will be switched to a Ninja just like Gilbert, but I'll need him able to switch to a Beast Master later on, so if he winds up in danger of dropping below 10 ALI I'll be switching him over..
BD will add Ashe, Gilbert, and Lord over weaker characters (this unit probably won't have seen too much action yet...Lans may even need to be replaced at this point). The point of adding the Lord is I need him to grab a few levels so Tarot Cards will still be effective.
LB1 and LB2 will be left alone (save for replacing the Lord).
[i]Strategy[/i]:
MA obviously beelines for Amad. This will take them directly over the hidden Roshian Temple where Aisha is.
BD may need to be deployed.
LB will head north on a liberating spree. IIRC, enemy plains units will come from the east and not north.
[u]Gares[/u]:
Again, I need a Fool card on hand to dispatch those Dragons. I'll probably wind up blowing multiple cards here, actually. I basically don't want to allow him to reach his 3rd action since that one's EvilDead.

[b]Diaspola[/b]:
MA will drop one of the generic Wizards in favor of Aisha, who will be changed to a Valkyrie (the idea is to have her able to switch back and forth between Cleric and Valkyrie/Muse). Main reason being that her INT is quite a bit higher than any generic would be at this point, and Lightning damage is somewhat useful in this stage.
BD will pick up the generic Wizard, Lord will be put back on  liberation duty.
LB1 will pick up Lord, and LB2 will remain unchanged.
[i]Strategy[/i]:
MA will obviously beeline for Diaspola, and will also liberate the Roshian Temples near Poache and Diaspola as well.
BD will not be deployed. Nothing should even make it that far.
LB1 will head north to Me' Mak, then west/northwest to Ajan, and further to Somyul. Somyul is improtant.
LB2 will head west and liberate the Roshian Temple near Pelegue, grab the item north of it, and then liberate Pelegue itself. This group will have to wait at the Temple until LB1 liberates Somyul.
LB1 will re-visit Somyul and grab the Sentoul for later use, then grab the item to the northeast. If time permits, will also liberate Alkyshon, the last Roshian Temple, and Rimorge.
[u]Norn[/u]:
All I need is a Fool card here. Norn is almost helpless without those Titans. Not worth wasting extra Tarots on her. Obviously recruit Norn after the battle.
[b]This map will be revisited afterward to bring the Sentoul to Anglem. I can trade it for an Undead Staff.[/b]

[b]Valley of Kastro[/b]:
MA will drop Aisha in favor of Norn.
BD will pick up Aisha.
LB1 and LB2 will not change.
[i]Strategy[/i]:
MA beelines for Tash Kent.
BD may be needed.
LB1 will liberate Fuluhnze, grab the item to the west, then liberate the Roshian Temple Rauny is at.
LB2 will liberate Almalyk.
[u]Ares[/u]:
Fool Card needed once again. Ares isn't anything that special, though.

[b]City of Malano[/b]:
MA gains Rauny in place of Norn.
BD shouldn't even need to be deployed here
LB1 and LB2 will pick up the highest ALI units I have.
[i]Strategy[/i]:
MA beelines for Malano.
LB1 needs to get to Bel Chelry. Thinking of having them grab Labenna, Lobeeg, the Roshian Temple to the South of there, Bolon Ya, then Bel Chelry. Tristan recruited.
LB2 will head west to Uhjine, a Roshian Temple, and Ajij. From there, they'll grab the 4 nearby items.
[u]Baron Apros[/u]:
World and Fool cards will be needed here, badly. I can't afford to waste attacks on the Demons, and Apros can wreck some havoc with those spells of his.
[b]I need to come back here and visit Malano for a Lexicon. While I'm grabbing that, I'll be sending another unit to grab the 5 item cluster in the southeast.
After that I need to re-visit Sharom and trade the Lexicon for an Undead Ring. Hellllllloooooo Lich![/b]

[b]Shangrila[/b]:
MA gets reformed. Canopus, Lyon, and the generic Wizard all get the boot, and Lyon is changed into a Beast Master is he isn't already. Tristan joins the MA as the frontline tank, Warren and Aisha (yes, Aisha) will be the other small units, and either a Wyrm, Gryphon, or Cockatris will accompany them for a High Sky movement type.
LB1 and LB2 will be combined. At this point liberation becomes a strictly monetary issue, and I have no idea ATM just how much I'll have at this point.
BD will just have the strongest units I have available.

[b]Fort Allamoot[/b]:
MA gains a support unit. Please welcome MA2 to the stage! MA1 won't change, but MA2 will be formed of Debonair, Norn, Rauny, and a High Sky'er. This gives me a one-two punch in terms of offense.
The MAs won't be changing after this, seeing as anything not on them will be severely behind in levels.
LB may or may not be seeing much action.

After this point, it's pretty much a straightforward beatdown, seeing as there's nothing left to grab that's important. Mostly it'll go something like this:

MA and MA2 beeline for the enemy base.
LB will liberate crap if I need Goth.
BD will stay back and watch, probably won't even be deployed.

AquaTiger

2007-03-27 12:01:45 am

Never give up!

Quote:

Debonair himself shouldn't pose too much of a threat in terms of killing him

This makes me go WTF. Debonair, from my experience, has a REALLY HIGH Agility and is very hard to hit. I implore you, make sure your second card is one that deals a boatload of damage, like Devil. (Unless Star actually gives enough AGI to drastically increase your hit chance.)

*All later information in this post based off of BSulpher's guide*

Of course, blowing all the Devil cards on Debonair means you don't have any for Norn, which I think is a bit of a bad idea since I recall Norn being very agile and quite vulnerable to Black Magic (you'd only use such a card the next chance you get after using Fool).

Also, with Gares? I thought the FIRST attack was EvilDead. If THAT'S really the case, you want to make Fool your SECOND card, preceded by a World card.

In general, I'd say the cards to look for other than Fool and World are Devil and Judgement (moreso Judgement).

Dragondarch

Edit history:

Dragondarch: 2007-03-27 12:02:28 pm

2007-03-27 12:01:37 pm

Pudding%

Quote:

In general, I'd say the cards to look for other than Fool and World are Devil and Judgement (moreso Judgement).

Attack cards would all be useful, depending on which element the enemy is weakest to.

I'll have more info when I have a chance to test more of this shit out. A sped up emulator should help hasten that a bit.

Dragondarch

Edit history:

Dragondarch: 2007-03-30 09:58:17 pm

2007-03-30 09:15:50 pm

Pudding%

OK, I've done up through Kalbian Peninsula on a test run.

Sharom:
Unit structure listed above is correct.

LB liberates Valna and buys 20 Heals / 10 Revives, then liberates the hidden Temple for the HeroStar.
MA gets the item, then hits Jindark. A couple fights will have to be fought to clear a path (usually 2).

Usar is a pushover as I expected.

Sharom District:
I need 3 groups here. Lord joins BD, which consists of Lans and whatever else is available.
LB becomes 3 clerics and a Gryphon.

Send BD directly to Latingurue, where they sit and defend. They'll actually get a few fights in which will level the Lord (and hopefully grab some ALI and CHA while he's at it)
LB grabs the item north of Bah'Wahl, liberates the Temple northeast of Bah'Wahl, then Bah'Wahl itself. This should give BD enough time to get to Latingurue.
MA grabs the item south of Bah'Wahl, then liberates the hidden Temple west of Percival.

Gilbert is a pushover as well. The Gryphon usually dies, but Warren and co. make short work of this.

Lake Jannenia:
2 groups here, no restructuring since I'll need these exact groups for the next stage.

LB grabs the Rune Axe while MA heads straight to Elsrum.
I'm still grabbing the Rune Axe here, even though I'm gonna fight him during the day (or rather dusk). It seems that there is either no REP hit or too small of a one to notice.

Sirius is easy as hell.

Slums of Zenobia:
3 groups needed here.

LB heads north and grabs the item south of By' Roit, then liberates it. Ashe joins. Have LB head west and grab another item.
MA aims just south of Zenobia's walls to avoid traffic, then attacks.
BD will get into at LEAST one fight.

Debonair wasn't all that hard, though a Star Card helps. I managed it this time with only needing a single Emperor Card.

Come back afterward and liberate Anberg and recruit Lyon, then hit Kal Robst and get the Key.

Island Avalon:
No Unit Restucture.

BD shouldn't see any action at all. LB stays parked.
MA liberates the Temple where Aisha is. This puts them in the direct path of practically all sky groups, so this will be a levelling stage.

AquaTiger was right in remembering that Gares does EvilDead on the first round. It wasn't as strong as I remember it, though. Gares himself is a pushover with the group I have, but I need a Fool Card unless I get lucky on hits with the Wizards.

Diaspola:
2 groups needed.

LB grabs the item north of the hidden Temple in the west, then hits the temple.
MA liberates Somyul, LB gets the Beehive, and MA gives it to Posha, snagging a Sentoul in return. MA then heads for Diaspola.

Norn's only issue is that she'll keep healing herself. Other than that this isn't a hard fight.

After the stage is done, come back in and liberate Anglem and grab an Undead Staff.

After this point I ran into a snag.
Diaspola only opens up Kalbian Peninsula, which in turn doesn't open City of Malano. So I have a choice to make.

2 Generals isn't possible. Only 1 can be grabbed depending on which route I take.

-I can do Kastolatian Sea (which nets me Brunhild) and then Valley of Kastro for Rauny, followed by City of Malano for Tristan. This nets me an Undead Ring (which is useless without the Undead Staff from Diaspola).
-Orrrrr....I can do Diaspola and grab Norn (and an Undead Staff), get stuck doing Kalbian Peninsula, then play Antalia for Yushis (who probably won't be all that useful...). However, this nets me Debonair in Shangrila.

I'm honestly siding with Diaspola/Kalbian Peninsula/Antalia.
Rauny may be nice, but Norn/Aisha shouldn't have any issues hitting Muse status pretty quickly.

Also note, that I'm actually having difficulty bringing Warren's ALI LOW ENOUGH to promote him to Mage. He's still 3 too high, so I don't think the "Bottoming Out" problem will plague me.

More as I get it...

EDIT: Just noticed that Antalia doesn't open up Shangrila, so I guess I'm Tundra bound...

OK, I've done up through Kalbian Peninsula on a test run.

[b]Sharom[/b]:
Unit structure listed above is correct.

LB liberates Valna and buys 20 Heals / 10 Revives, then liberates the hidden Temple for the HeroStar.
MA gets the item, then hits Jindark. A couple fights will have to be fought to clear a path (usually 2).

Usar is a pushover as I expected.

[b]Sharom District[/b]:
I need 3 groups here. Lord joins BD, which consists of Lans and whatever else is available.
LB becomes 3 clerics and a Gryphon.

Send BD directly to Latingurue, where they sit and defend. They'll actually get a few fights in which will level the Lord (and hopefully grab some ALI and CHA while he's at it)
LB grabs the item north of Bah'Wahl, liberates the Temple northeast of Bah'Wahl, then Bah'Wahl itself. This should give BD enough time to get to Latingurue.
MA grabs the item south of Bah'Wahl, then liberates the hidden Temple west of Percival.

Gilbert is a pushover as well. The Gryphon usually dies, but Warren and co. make short work of this.

[b]Lake Jannenia[/b]:
2 groups here, no restructuring since I'll need these exact groups for the next stage.

LB grabs the Rune Axe while MA heads straight to Elsrum.
I'm still grabbing the Rune Axe here, even though I'm gonna fight him during the day (or rather dusk). It seems that there is either no REP hit or too small of a one to notice.

Sirius is easy as hell.

[b]Slums of Zenobia[/b]:
3 groups needed here.

LB heads north and grabs the item south of By' Roit, then liberates it. Ashe joins. Have LB head west and grab another item.
MA aims just south of Zenobia's walls to avoid traffic, then attacks.
BD will get into at LEAST one fight.

Debonair wasn't all that hard, though a Star Card helps. I managed it this time with only needing a single Emperor Card.

Come back afterward and liberate Anberg and recruit Lyon, then hit Kal Robst and get the Key.

[b]Island Avalon[/b]:
No Unit Restucture.

BD shouldn't see any action at all. LB stays parked.
MA liberates the Temple where Aisha is. This puts them in the direct path of practically all sky groups, so this will be a levelling stage.

AquaTiger was right in remembering that Gares does EvilDead on the first round. It wasn't as strong as I remember it, though. Gares himself is a pushover with the group I have, but I need a Fool Card unless I get lucky on hits with the Wizards.

[b]Diaspola[/b]:
2 groups needed.

LB grabs the item north of the hidden Temple in the west, then hits the temple.
MA liberates Somyul, LB gets the Beehive, and MA gives it to Posha, snagging a Sentoul in return. MA then heads for Diaspola.

Norn's only issue is that she'll keep healing herself. Other than that this isn't a hard fight.

After the stage is done, come back in and liberate Anglem and grab an Undead Staff.

[b]After this point I ran into a snag.[/b]
Diaspola only opens up Kalbian Peninsula, which in turn doesn't open City of Malano. So I have a choice to make.

2 Generals isn't possible. Only 1 can be grabbed depending on which route I take.

-I can do Kastolatian Sea (which nets me Brunhild) and then Valley of Kastro for Rauny, followed by City of Malano for Tristan. This nets me an Undead Ring (which is useless without the Undead Staff from Diaspola).
-Orrrrr....I can do Diaspola and grab Norn (and an Undead Staff), get stuck doing Kalbian Peninsula, then play Antalia for Yushis (who probably won't be all that useful...). However, this nets me Debonair in Shangrila.

I'm honestly siding with Diaspola/Kalbian Peninsula/Antalia.
Rauny may be nice, but Norn/Aisha shouldn't have any issues hitting Muse status pretty quickly.

Also note, that I'm actually having difficulty bringing Warren's ALI LOW ENOUGH to promote him to Mage. He's still 3 too high, so I don't think the "Bottoming Out" problem will plague me.

More as I get it...

EDIT: Just noticed that Antalia doesn't open up Shangrila, so I guess I'm Tundra bound...

BalnabZ

2007-04-09 05:46:58 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I'd like "100%" for this game defined, and I have a suggestion.

First of all, 100% of items is impossible, since there's not enough room in the inventory. (Thankfully).

Second, 100% of characters is only possible if you get a crappy ending, since having Galf guarantees it. Obviously not the purpose of a 100% game, since the endings are based on who/what you got and what you did.

This game has twelve different endings. There's an obvious spectrum of strictness of completion in those endings. It seems logical to me to call the "World" ending a sort of built-in 100% and be done with it. Otherwise there are a million different ways you could define 100%, none of which would actually be 100% anyway.

I would like this cleared up. I've tested out "World" speed runs of this game before, and I know I could do a good job. I don't feel like altering my route to include picking up extra shit. So what's the verdict? Is it legit, or no? (No promises that I'll actually get around to doing it, it's been years since I started toying with the idea and six months since I've played the game, but I'd like to know).

I'd like "100%" for this game defined, and I have a suggestion.

First of all, 100% of items is impossible, since there's not enough room in the inventory.  (Thankfully).

Second, 100% of characters is only possible if you get a crappy ending, since having Galf guarantees it.  Obviously not the purpose of a 100% game, since the endings are based on who/what you got and what you did.

This game has twelve different endings.  There's an obvious spectrum of strictness of completion in those endings.  It seems logical to me to call the "World" ending a sort of built-in 100% and be done with it.  Otherwise there are a million different ways you could define 100%, none of which would actually be 100% anyway.

I would like this cleared up.  I've tested out "World" speed runs of this game before, and I know I could do a good job.  I don't feel like altering my route to include picking up extra shit.  So what's the verdict?  Is it legit, or no?  (No promises that I'll actually get around to doing it, it's been years since I started toying with the idea and six months since I've played the game, but I'd like to know).