Ocarina of Time - All Categories[N64]

2009-05-08 11:05:17 am

Quote from Cs1987:

Quote from UchihaSasuke:

i've been using this angle and i can get the DoT skip on the very first try without practicing. the angle is a bit different from the one in the speedrun site.
it could be useful in MST and in a SS to skip the cutscene and if a warp song (requiem) is obtained before going forward in time or the backwards DoT skip is used also.

That's pretty much the exact angle I use in my SSes.

This is also really close to the same angle I use, FWIW.

Thanks for uploading the SS attempt, Cs1987. I'll watch it soon. Can't wait.

InsomPsycho

2009-05-08 11:19:31 am

Quote from Runnerguy2489:

9) Dead hand fight: You have a deku stick. Would it be faster to jumpslash with it, then use power stabs? You also have magic. Can young link keep him from going under the ground like adult link can? It would basically become a single cycle if he could, and the timing is really easy.

I'd be really interested to see that. What's the best run to look at for a good Dead Hand strategy?

Runnerguy2489

2009-05-08 12:03:15 pm

I'm not your buddy, guay!

Uses a quick spin.

Uses charged spins.

I'd use the 2nd one in a SS, unless you are very comfortable with the timing.

You can't do this for BoTW dead hand because you don't have magic yet (I suppose it's possible but it's much harder). You could use deku stick power crouch stabs if those are faster, simply pick up a deku stick in the jar before doing the battle.

You won't need hover boots as a child in your run either, so the Shadow Temple one can be done as adult.

Maxx

2009-05-08 12:07:42 pm

Quote from InsomPsycho:

Quote from Runnerguy2489:

9) Dead hand fight: You have a deku stick. Would it be faster to jumpslash with it, then use power stabs? You also have magic. Can young link keep him from going under the ground like adult link can? It would basically become a single cycle if he could, and the timing is really easy.

I'd be really interested to see that. What's the best run to look at for a good Dead Hand strategy?

(Runneryguy's)
(Mp16's)

EDIT: Beaten with the exact same videos! Angry

Runnerguy2489

2009-05-08 12:22:13 pm

I'm not your buddy, guay!

Heh.

I tested and was not able to do charged spins to keep him from going underground, however, the deku stick power crouch stabs allowed it to be 3 cycles.

Besides, I just realized you take damage intentionally to get your health down, so keeping him above ground would have meant you would need more chus/bombs to kill yourself.

InsomPsycho

2009-05-08 12:30:38 pm

^ lol, pretty funny actually Smiley

I'm guessing if I use a deku jumpslash for my PCS's, I will only need to do one megaspin? That would be optimal; I get a deku stick earlier in my run, so it wouldn't waste any time. Come to think about it, if the jar next to the entrance is reliable enough, it would actually save time getting it there; for some reason I was getting it in the kokiri shop, which would only help if I could do the owl skip worth a shit Tongue

I should probably count deku nuts so I know whether to buy 5, 10, or 15.

Also, what's with that jumping-and-escaping-the-hand thing? Is that similar to the escaping-the-push-block thing? How are those done?

CS1987, I find your run so far encouraging to say the least Smiley

keep it up!

@ Runnerguy: wait, you were able to do it in the speedrun, but not just now? Did the deku stick make a difference in that?

And more bombchus would still be faster than more cycles(assuming you have more, I will); plus, I'm not doing shadow until I'm an adult, unless kid shadow early is proven to be insanely faster keeping in mind skulltulas I may have to get. I on the other hand will be getting the Lens of Truth, so I won't be deathwarping out.

^ lol, pretty funny actually :)

I'm guessing if I use a deku jumpslash for my PCS's, I will only need to do one megaspin? That would be optimal; I get a deku stick earlier in my run, so it wouldn't waste any time. Come to think about it, if the jar next to the entrance is reliable enough, it would actually save time getting it there; for some reason I was getting it in the kokiri shop, which would only help if I could do the owl skip worth a shit :P

I should probably count deku nuts so I know whether to buy 5, 10, or 15.

Also, what's with that jumping-and-escaping-the-hand thing? Is that similar to the escaping-the-push-block thing? How are those done?

CS1987, I find your run so far encouraging to say the least :) keep it up!

@ Runnerguy: wait, you were able to do it in the speedrun, but not just now? Did the deku stick make a difference in that?

And more bombchus would still be faster than more cycles(assuming you have more, I will); plus, I'm not doing shadow until I'm an adult, unless kid shadow early is proven to be insanely faster keeping in mind skulltulas I may have to get. I on the other hand will be getting the Lens of Truth, so I won't be deathwarping out.

Runnerguy2489

2009-05-08 01:17:03 pm

I'm not your buddy, guay!

I was not able to do it as child link, I don't think his quick spin radius is large enough, even the orange. Adult link it's easy to time the charged spins. So for your BoTW dead hand, use deku stick crouch stabs, let him go and repeat. Should be 3 cycles. For Shadow temple, you'll be adult so do one of the linked video methods, should be 1 cycle. Or two, if he walks into the center you'd be screwed since the hands would get you before you could get him.

That jar always spits out a deku stick, so yeah, get it there not in the shop. Saves rupees and the text can be sped through.

The jumping and escaping is easy, I just jumpslash into the hands that grab you, that also stores the jumpslash strength for the power crouch stab, so you might as well do it with a deku stick assuming it doesn't break your stick. It can be done with a backflip too, as Cs1987 did.

ZFG

2009-05-08 02:47:19 pm

MrGrunz is a guay

Wow Cs1987 you're serious about doing the run :o. Most people here just say they're doing a run and nothing gets done.

I watched what you have up so far and have some comments and suggestions

*I'm with runnerguy on doing new forest escape. Getting the old method on the first try is hard in an SS and missing it just once will make you lose a lot of time. New forest escape is extremely easy, and the ocarina saves at least 30 seconds over OI, and you can get bugs from the graveyard rock when getting hover boots instead of going out of the way for them in kakariko saving more time.

*Cucco collecting could have been a little better. I suggest using ISG off of the cocco then backflipping into the well for the cucco dive. Its faster and imo easier.

*Obviously work on the early chus. For the skulltula clip I find it easier when the skulltula is near the ground and not halfway up.

*If you're not going into the dodongos head in DC theres no excuse to not skip navis lava pit text.

*Work on superslides, preferably backwalking. They look hard but after lots of practice you'll never not do a backwalking superslide ever again. Adult is harder so it might be ok to wait for the bomb but just try practicing them and see if you can get them.

*lolz at trying to get bombs from the grass. You should have 17-18 bombs as this point if you don't screw up superslides so you shouldn't need bomb drops anyway. Maybe try once after leaving shadow.

*Deku sticks on dead hand, no idea why you didn't do this.

*DoT skip was really good for an SS.

Will add more when I see the rest.

Wow Cs1987 you're serious about doing the run :o.  Most people here just say they're doing a run and nothing gets done.

I watched what you have up so far and have some comments and suggestions

*I'm with runnerguy on doing new forest escape.  Getting the old method on the first try is hard in an SS and missing it just once will make you lose a lot of time.  New forest escape is extremely easy, and the ocarina saves at least 30 seconds over OI, and you can get bugs from the graveyard rock when getting hover boots instead of going out of the way for them in kakariko saving more time.

*Cucco collecting could have been a little better.  I suggest using ISG off of the cocco then backflipping into the well for the cucco dive.  Its faster and imo easier.

*Obviously work on the early chus.  For the skulltula clip I find it easier when the skulltula is near the ground and not halfway up.

*If you're not going into the dodongos head in DC theres no excuse to not skip navis lava pit text.

*Work on superslides, preferably backwalking.  They look hard but after lots of practice you'll never not do a backwalking superslide ever again.  Adult is harder so it might be ok to wait for the bomb but just try practicing them and see if you can get them.

*lolz at trying to get bombs from the grass.  You should have 17-18 bombs as this point if you don't screw up superslides so you shouldn't need bomb drops anyway.  Maybe try once after leaving shadow.

*Deku sticks on dead hand, no idea why you didn't do this.

*DoT skip was really good for an SS.

Will add more when I see the rest.

AKA

2009-05-08 03:43:17 pm

He's back!

One thing I'd like to note in DMT. When getting the magic certainly don't try the superslide there. The risk vs reward ratio is rather poor. Instead ISG a bomb and use it to seam climb so you can avoid climbing up the vines. Also when doing the cucco dive, use a deku nut on it as that seems to leave it with 1 hp every time.

MrGrunz

2009-05-08 05:06:41 pm

Merry Chrismas =)

ultimate fire temple boss key skip:

only 5 explosives
maybe possible with 4

boss key skip in fire temple is definately quicker than getting the boss key the normal way now Wink

InsomPsycho

Edit history:

InsomPsycho: 2009-05-08 05:45:35 pm

2009-05-08 05:11:49 pm

Do I have to get the boss keys?

There isn't a skulltula down there, IIRC, so it would be faster to skip it. Otherwise, I should just get it.

Do I need to get the skulltula and heart pieces on my way to Gerudo's Fortress? I will be going to the lake later to get skulltulas and a nheart piece, so I can just get them then; then I wouldn't need to do the OoB warp.

If I do need to do the OoB warp... anybody have a video? I looked around on youtube, but nothing I could find.

Cs1987

Edit history:

Cs1987: 2009-05-08 08:41:19 pm

2009-05-08 07:20:17 pm

Some guy

Yep, that's why I posted the run. It is the easiest way to find out all the timesavers I forgot to use. Grin

I will test all of your suggestions - I doubt that I'll be doing backwalk superslides though. I've tried them before and I've never actually pulled one off. I guess I'll watch more of Mp16's videos to see exactly when to drop the bomb. I shouldn't have trouble with superslides when I'm not feeling nervous, which shouldn't be a problem after more attempts.

Part of the reason why I use bombchus to megaflip is because in the PAL GCN version, the speed at which bombs flash is unpredictable, which also partly explains why I have trouble with superslides. I'm not sure if other versions have the same problem. Also, for megaflips, it is much easier to get knocked back far enough to make the distance with bombchus than bombs.

I've uploaded the rest of the run now. As you will see, I could easily shave more than 5 minutes off the Adult section as well as the Child section.

Cs1987

2009-05-08 07:51:46 pm

Some guy

It is now a playlist.

ZFG

2009-05-08 10:13:07 pm

MrGrunz is a guay

If you can't do backwalk superslides now then you need to practice, at least for child. I can understand if you wait for the bomb as adult though.

Watched the rest. More suggestions

*When you're going from kakariko > lake hylia and back you must do superslides. They save tons of time when going that far.

*On your way to lake hylia you pass a patch of grass, why the hell don't you at least try for bombs there?

*For hovering to the fishing pond if you start the hover near the corner where the fishing pond meets the wall you can get the hover in 6-7 bombs, you used 8.

*On your way back to kakariko you pass the same patch of grass again. You should drop a bomb there and try for a bonb drop. I find using bombs to blow up grass increases the chance of getting a pickup.

*Obviously get to kakariko before night.

*It was actually a good choice not to do acrytes bridge trick and go through kokiri to get cojiro because without hookshot the ladder is a long climb. Its still faster by a little but I say notworth it in an SS because 1 screw up makes it slower.

*Why didn't you jump over the potion shop? It saves only a few seconds but its so easy.

*When going back to kakariko its faster to wade through the river than go across the bridge.

*Supersliding to/from kokiri/gerudo valley must be done, going across all of hyrule field just saves too much time

*For crossing the bridge gap, of you roll too early for a superslide you can still make it with a failed superslide hover boost. It will get enough speed to make it over the gap, and it also has a stored ground jump incase you need a little extra boost.

*The staircase hover trial skip method is faster than the armos clip method.

*Use crouch stabs on the stalfos.

*In the ganondorf battle you should be on his platform when you reflect the balls. It will only take 1/2 reflects then. You should also be able to single cycle him, or at least 2 cycle, 3 is too much.

*Not dieing saves a good amount of time.

*Ganon was suckage. The first phase should go roll under legs - quickspin - roll back under legs until he attacks - roll back under and jumpslash - roll under again until he attacks - last roll under and jumpslash, done. The second phase you need to roll under his legs behind and to the front and do more jumpslashes.

For the final time I think sub 1:35 should be possible.

If you can't do backwalk superslides now then you need to practice, at least for child.  I can understand if you wait for the bomb as adult though.

Watched the rest.  More suggestions

*When you're going from kakariko > lake hylia and back you [b][i]must do superslides[/i][/b].  They save tons of time when going that far.

*On your way to lake hylia you pass a patch of grass, why the hell don't you at least try for bombs there?

*For hovering to the fishing pond if you start the hover near the corner where the fishing pond meets the wall you can get the hover in 6-7 bombs, you used 8.

*On your way back to kakariko you pass the same patch of grass again.  You should drop a bomb there and try for a bonb drop.  I find using bombs to blow up grass increases the chance of getting a pickup.

*Obviously get to kakariko before night.

*It was actually a good choice not to do acrytes bridge trick and go through kokiri to get cojiro because without hookshot the ladder is a long climb.  Its still faster by a little but I say notworth it in an SS because 1 screw up makes it slower.

*Why didn't you jump over the potion shop?  It saves only a few seconds but its so easy.

*When going back to kakariko its faster to wade through the river than go across the bridge.

*Supersliding to/from kokiri/gerudo valley must be done, going across all of hyrule field just saves too much time

*For crossing the bridge gap, of you roll too early for a superslide you can still make it with a [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZRVrx7MOlQ&feature=channel_page]failed superslide hover boost[/url].  It will get enough speed to make it over the gap, and it also has a stored ground jump incase you need a little extra boost.

*The staircase hover trial skip method is faster than the armos clip method.

*Use crouch stabs on the stalfos.

*In the ganondorf battle you should be on his platform when you reflect the balls.  It will only take 1/2 reflects then.  You should also be able to single cycle him, or at least 2 cycle, 3 is too much.

*Not dieing saves a good amount of time.

*Ganon was suckage.  The first phase should go roll under legs - quickspin - roll back under legs until he attacks - roll back under and jumpslash - roll under again until he attacks - last roll under and jumpslash, done.  The second phase you need to roll under his legs behind and to the front and do more jumpslashes.

For the final time I think sub 1:35 should be possible.

Azorae

2009-05-08 10:16:29 pm

RBAing the Poacher's Saw gives you the Prelude of Light, which can be used to warp directly to the Light Arrow cutscene. After RBAing for the medallions, you have a full bottle in hand already and can quickly use Ocarina Items to play the song. Other than that, only minor things, such as backflipping onto the statue and jumping to the switch in Dodongo's Cavern rather than pushing it and climbing the ladder.

InsomPsycho

Edit history:

InsomPsycho: 2009-05-09 05:40:18 am

2009-05-09 01:02:33 am

not that it matters remotely for my run, but that SS to Ganon cutscene is what enabled you to keep your master sword, yes?

Edit: Okay, I have looked through videos on Youtube, I've searched people's videos for "gerudo" "oob" "warp" etc.

Can somebody at least explain how to do the oob sidehop warp? If nothing else, I could awlways deathwarp, but that will be much slower, as I will have six full hearts at that point, having just picked up my eight heart piece.

ZFG

2009-05-09 08:33:56 am

MrGrunz is a guay

Quote from InsomPsycho:

not that it matters remotely for my run, but that SS to Ganon cutscene is what enabled you to keep your master sword, yes?

Edit: Okay, I have looked through videos on Youtube, I've searched people's videos for "gerudo" "oob" "warp" etc.

Can somebody at least explain how to do the oob sidehop warp? If nothing else, I could awlways deathwarp, but that will be much slower, as I will have six full hearts at that point, having just picked up my eight heart piece.

Yes the superslide to the cutscene allows you to keep your sword as long as you hold R through the cutscene until navi talks right after ganon "knocks your sword away".

Gerudo Valley OoB sidehop

InsomPsycho

2009-05-09 09:54:27 am

Quote from ZFG:

Gerudo Valley OoB sidehop

* InsomPsycho kicks self for not noticing I hadn't subscribed to mp16

Awesome. Thanks to that video, I've gotten it every try after messing up only once.

Juice

2009-05-09 09:57:27 am

how much faster could a 100% run be compared to yautjas run?

InsomPsycho

2009-05-09 10:17:52 am

I have no idea. That's what mp16 is working on, right?

Now about that hover...

For some reason, even though I am in ISG, I backflip of a ledge or on flat ground, and sheild drop a bombchu. Link just falls. I've even tried dropping a bomb and timing the backflip. No hover. I must be doing something wrong, but I don't know what.

And I don't have the cucco jump perfected yet, plus hovering is kind of important, so I really need to get it down.

Edit: I'm watching videos (SwordlessLink has two very descriptive ones) and it looks like I need the slingshot. Also, I only have one or two bombchus left if I don't use them in JJB.

ZFG

2009-05-09 10:41:05 am

MrGrunz is a guay

Check out the hover page at ZSR. It has all you need to know about how to hover.

Quote from Juice:

how much faster could a 100% run be compared to yautjas run?

Mp16 is aiming for sub 6

Cs1987

2009-05-09 01:36:49 pm

Some guy

Mp16 most definitely will get sub 6 hours. According to him, anyway. I believe him, and you would be unwise not to believe such a perfectionist. Grin

InsomPsycho, are you still trying these tricks on an emulator? I think some emulators have some issues with tricks like hovering.

InsomPsycho

Edit history:

InsomPsycho: 2009-05-09 02:52:53 pm

2009-05-09 02:26:12 pm

Quote from Cs1987:

Mp16 most definitely will get sub 6 hours. According to him, anyway. I believe him, and you would be unwise not to believe such a perfectionist. Grin

InsomPsycho, are you still trying these tricks on an emulator? I think some emulators have some issues with tricks like hovering.

Yeah, for the next two days I will be without N64. I'll skip this part for now at least.

But still, is there another way to do hovers as a kid without the slingshot?

Right now, I need to go through my route and keep track of what time of day it is, what items I have on C, and the quantities of items I have. So it's important to know how many bomb/chus I will be using.

Are the deku nuts needed for anything other than stunning keese? Because I want to use the rest of them fighting whatever Gerudo Guards I do fight as a kid, and I still don't know how many that's going to be. Basically there are five possibilities, from 4 kid 0 adult, to 0 kid 4 adult, and I don't know which one is the fastest; which route to use, etc. That's a lot of trial and error.
I'll do it if it's not already known, but if it is, why waste my time, right?

All I know right now is the following:

1) No Gerudo guards outside when I'm a kid
2) I absolutely cannot get caught as a kid, or I have to start the run over.
3) As an adult, (w/ longshot) however, getting caught may be an advantage, because I don't have to go around to get to the top.
4) Adult Link moves faster than Kid Link
5) Adult Link can stun w/ bows OR sword, Kid Link can only use sword.
6) Gerudo Guards are MUCH easier to fight with the Boomerang, which you can only use as a kid.
7) Gerudo Guards can also be defeated with arrows, which you can only use as an adult.

So what do you think is the best idea?

[quote="Cs1987"]
Mp16 most definitely will get sub 6 hours. According to him, anyway. I believe him, and you would be unwise not to believe such a perfectionist.  ;D

InsomPsycho, are you still trying these tricks on an emulator? I think some emulators have some issues with tricks like hovering.
[/quote]
Yeah, for the next two days I will be without N64. I'll skip this part for now at least.

But still, is there another way to do hovers as a kid without the slingshot?

Right now, I need to go through my route and keep track of what time of day it is, what items I have on C, and the quantities of items I have. So it's important to know how many bomb/chus I will be using.

Are the deku nuts needed for anything other than stunning keese? Because I want to use the rest of them fighting whatever Gerudo Guards I do fight as a kid, and I still don't know how many that's going to be. Basically there are five possibilities, from 4 kid 0 adult, to 0 kid 4 adult, and I don't know which one is the fastest; which route to use, etc. That's a lot of trial and error.
I'll do it if it's not already known, but if it is, why waste my time, right?

All I know right now is the following:

1) No Gerudo guards outside when I'm a kid
2) I [b]absolutely cannot[/b] get caught as a kid, or I have to start the run over.
3) As an adult, (w/ longshot) however, getting caught may be an advantage, because I don't have to go around to get to the top.
4) Adult Link moves faster than Kid Link
5) Adult Link can stun w/ bows OR sword, Kid Link can only use sword.
6) Gerudo Guards are MUCH easier to fight with the Boomerang, which you can only use as a kid.
7) Gerudo Guards can also be defeated with arrows, which you can only use as an adult.

So what do you think is the best idea?

Runnerguy2489

2009-05-09 02:42:10 pm

I'm not your buddy, guay!

Alright I've watched the rest of the run:

-The cucco lady can be Z-targetted and shown the pocket cucco from a (slightly) further range. I noticed you had to be like right on top of her for her to see the pocket cucco.

-I agree with ZFG about the Hyrule superslides. I also agree with AKA about the DMT superslide, risk/reward isn't worth it. You save 5 seconds by doing that one on your first try. I wouldn't worry about backwalking superslides in a SS run either...it saves like 2.5 seconds over the backflip (or in your case little backwalk stutter step)

-I would do the jumpslash trials skip over the bomb staircase one, even if it's 5-10 seconds slower. risk/reward again...

-You end that run with 18 deku nuts. Stalfos can be stunned. I'd store a jumpslash and stun/power crouch stab them if you are worried about dying. I'd also use this strat on the lizards:
- 30 seconds in. I remember it being pretty successful, if not in 2 then 3 spins. I'd use nuts on the stalfos during the escape sequence too.

-Ganondorf, if quick spins give you trouble, the timing for power crouch stabs isn't all that bad with a little practice. You may have time to do ISG or something too, I don't know.

-Jumpslashes on Ganon save a lot of time. If you are worried about dying, you can do a jumpslash to air and then hit him with an upwards pointing power crouch stab when his tail falls down, then retreat as you did. Even doing this at 50% success rate is the same as doing 100% success on the single slashes.

Alright I've watched the rest of the run:

-The cucco lady can be Z-targetted and shown the pocket cucco from a (slightly) further range. I noticed you had to be like right on top of her for her to see the pocket cucco.

-I agree with ZFG about the Hyrule superslides. I also agree with AKA about the DMT superslide, risk/reward isn't worth it. You save 5 seconds by doing that one on your first try. I wouldn't worry about backwalking superslides in a SS run either...it saves like 2.5 seconds over the backflip (or in your case little backwalk stutter step)

-I would do the jumpslash trials skip over the bomb staircase one, even if it's 5-10 seconds slower. risk/reward again...

-You end that run with 18 deku nuts. Stalfos can be stunned. I'd store a jumpslash and stun/power crouch stab them if you are worried about dying. I'd also use this strat on the lizards:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce1jXnfkD0M - 30 seconds in. I remember it being pretty successful, if not in 2 then 3 spins. I'd use nuts on the stalfos during the escape sequence too.

-Ganondorf, if quick spins give you trouble, the timing for power crouch stabs isn't all that bad with a little practice. You may have time to do ISG or something too, I don't know.

-Jumpslashes on Ganon save a lot of time. If you are worried about dying, you can do a jumpslash to air and then hit him with an upwards pointing power crouch stab when his tail falls down, then retreat as you did. Even doing this at 50% success rate is the same as doing 100% success on the single slashes.

KlydeStorm

2009-05-09 02:42:52 pm

Quote from InsomPsycho:

6) Gerudo Guards are MUCH easier to fight with Deku Nuts, which you can only use as a kid.

Did you mean Boomerang? Just wondering.