Ocarina of Time - All Categories[N64]

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2007-12-26 09:49:43 pm

2007-12-26 09:31:42 pm

Zelda Scientist®

It is a graphical glitch, it is older. Let go of the wall, you will not hover.

The only way you might be able to use C buttons when normally you cannot is if you are swordless. Unfortunately people just got there without sword and didn't notice the useability of those items so I'm guessing you still can't use them. Usually it makes it so that you can use them if you were doing an ACTION that made it so you couldn't. This is different than being in a PLACE where you can't use the c buttons however, and is observable when making the fishing rod on B change into a dekustick vs making you swordless. In the water you can't use B whether you are swimming, diving etc. So you will become swordless after pauseing in the water. If you are on a ladder, if you are in a house that doesn't let you use your swords etc. you will become swordless. If you are doing an ACTION state then it will just become a dekustick... similarly if you are swordless, then you can use Cbuttons when you are doing DOWNA or Riding a horse etc.

Yup, when you are swordless you cannot use items in ToT that you couldn't normally. The issue is that in certain places they say, "you can use this but can't use that". Since C buttons can normally equip both of those things, they check the C buttons to see what can and cannot be used. However, they figure that you can always use a sword in ToT so they never check to see if you can or cannot use what is on B.

It is a graphical glitch, it is older. Let go of the wall, you will not hover.

The only way you might be able to use C buttons when normally you cannot is if you are swordless. Unfortunately people just got there without sword and didn't notice the useability of those items so I'm guessing you still can't use them. Usually it makes it so that you can use them if you were doing an ACTION that made it so you couldn't. This is different than being in a PLACE where you can't use the c buttons however, and is observable when making the fishing rod on B change into a dekustick vs making you swordless. In the water you can't use B whether you are swimming, diving etc. So you will become swordless after pauseing in the water. If you are on a ladder, if you are in a house that doesn't let you use your swords etc. you will become swordless. If you are doing an ACTION state then it will just become a dekustick... similarly if you are swordless, then you can use Cbuttons when you are doing DOWNA or Riding a horse etc.

Yup, when you are swordless you cannot use items in ToT that you couldn't normally. The issue is that in certain places they say, "you can use this but can't use that". Since C buttons can normally equip both of those things, they check the C buttons to see what can and cannot be used. However, they figure that you can always use a sword in ToT so they never check to see if you can or cannot use what is on B.

ZFG

Edit history:

ZFG: 2007-12-26 11:37:34 pm

2007-12-26 11:37:15 pm

MrGrunz is a guay

Hhmm. Acryte, I saw a picture you posted on TASvideos a while ago with magic beans, light arrows, dins fire and broken giants knife where bottles were. If its possible to get bombs to a bottle slot, would the game let you use it in ToT because it is on a bottle slot, which usually is allowed in ToT, or does it check the actual item and not the slot?

I also remember you posting about downA while swimmig or something related to that. Can you give us more info about that?

Kirby is finally starting to be useful

AKA

Edit history:

AKA: 2007-12-27 02:10:17 am

2007-12-27 12:44:51 am

He's back!

Just want to say for the Ganondorf cutscene outside the moat its possible to use the bushes to teleport into the void while supersliding into the cutscene, but its a damm shame it doesn't work, mainly because Links position automatically gets reset to standing outside the moat :-(

EDIT: This actually gives me an idea, I wonder if you could superslide off the bomb after beating KD and into the blue portal and use the bomb to warp into the void and you could possibly do the same for Barinade using the pots.

EDIT_2: Damm doesn't work in DC because the height between the bomb flowers and the portal isn't high enough.

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2007-12-27 03:40:07 am

2007-12-27 03:28:29 am

Zelda Scientist®

no im pretty sure it will just check which item is on that button. I can check it though but im pretty sure.

Tested. That's exactly how it works. It just checks each button individually. Where it is on the menu only determines which item can be equipped to a C button regardless of what it is. AKA adult link could equip a slingshot if it was in the bottles spot, etc.

Aka, isn't that about the same as the blue warp glitch because after blue warp glitch you can leave the room, or play warp songs... it doesn't give you the stone yet Sad

Also if you do the 1st part of steal the rod then quit fishing you keep an invisible rod in your hands and have ReelA. But you can't cast or reel. If you start fishing again the camera goes insane and is uncontrollable. It is difficult to even move around more than 1 step at a time. Also even though the rod is on B you cannot cast the fishing rod. Has no uses but just mentioning it.

ZFG

Edit history:

ZFG: 2007-12-27 06:25:24 am

2007-12-27 06:18:08 am

MrGrunz is a guay

Heh I got deku shield on B with Zora BA. If you press B nothing happens but when you do ocarina items, you still play it like normal ocarina items.

I think I found a faster way to get bottle on B. After getting out of the water, don't press start yet. Empty your bottle and swing it to catch your bug/fish. But Before you start to swing, pause and unpause to get deku sticks and rapidly press B. It should now have a bottle on B like the original bottle duplication glitch. I only did it once by accident so I may not have described it right but I'm going to try it again.

EDIT: Ok for the quick B bottle, you have to press B when you see link taking out the bottle from under his shield but before the swing starts. The bottle must be visible when you press B though.

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2007-12-27 09:32:52 pm

2007-12-27 06:58:11 pm

Zelda Scientist®

Oh cool, this could help us figure out why it works because we can skip more steps, thanks ZFG.

Edit: It's also better for TAS

Damn that is cool Smiley

___________________________

So the activation on B is very much like the very old bottle duplication trick! Cool now we have more to work off of for understanding. Notice is still works from one C button to another.

___________________________

Something interesting I observed. Notice what ZFG said about pressing it when "link starts pulling if from under his shield". This is when you need to provide input.

There is something special about this part of the animation or the code that is active after this part starts.

Notice that when you put certain items that were never suppossed to be equipped onto C buttons (or B, it doesn't matter) and try to use them, some work as eyedrops, and some have link try to pull an item from under his shield and then the game freezes. There is definitely critical code working here and apparently is open for input. Maybe I'll try pressing one of those items and then bottle to see if we can replace it with a bottle, if this was the case then there is indeed a link between the 2 indefinitely. That would definitely give us more to work with as well in figuring out the precise internal workings of bottle adventure when it places the bottle to B or other C buttons. (or a technical parallel would be pressing the button and then pressing an item that has an empty amount or that can't be pulled [makes buzzing sound]) and seeing if it puts that specific crashing item on B or C button.

___________________

I also just thought of an idea we could use to check when in the process it updates the index for the bottled item, if it does it when equipped, when catching a bottled item and placeing it on a button, or both.

__________________

Other observations, when fast swapping a bottle from B to Cleft (i had 0 bombs on cleft and cright was a bombbag lol) I noticed that the game updated 0 amounts in my deku stick spot when I DONT HAVE ANY DEKU STICKS YET. There is not deku stick picture, just a 0. Also, this reminds me of when I made a vid earlier on about "Ocarina Amounts" and figured it was just a visual glitch. Hmm, maybe I'll go back and look at it.

that is what i was talking about but... maybe it still was a graphical glitch, maybe not. It's a little different (alot actually) but maybe there are similarities.

______________________________

more observations with emu testing:
when an object that has amounts is put into your inventory (anywhere) then the amount is also refreshed and added into the inventory at the default menu location (even if it is in a different place than where you put the item). If you put a bow into the deku nuts spot, the amount 0 will appear in the menu location where the bow normally is, even though there is no bow there. In fact, the cursor cannot be moved to the 0 either because the game still notices you don't have any items in that slot.

The amounts don't swap which items use them. A bow in the same menu location for deku nuts won't get to use deku nut amounts for its ammo. (I'm pretty sure) Maybe i should test it again arg.

Yup, even if the bow is in the same location for deku seeds it cannot use the ammo for what is in that place in memory.

______________________

The issue I have with the whole thing is that a deku stick isn't being placed in the inventory anywhere and yet it's ammunition gets updated into view as if it was...

The same then happens with normal BA too.

_____________________

Okay, here is what i have figured out so far...

If you catch make a bottle go from B to a C button (fast swap or regularly) then the indexes get messed up somehow and basically, when you update the bottle on the C button, it will update other stuff...??? Not sure if the extent of it will only edit deku amount to 0 or what is going on. Also, the deku amount should only show up if there is a deku stick in the inventory but there isn't...

______________________

Okay, now I am confused again....

I gave myself 9 dekusticks and then I did this and it put the amount in the menu to 0 dekusticks... then I equipped Deku stick to C-right and it equips to the button with 9 deku sticks????? What the hell is this 0 that is in the menu place for deku sticks? Usually any item placed in the menu will always update the amount for an item... and that always updates it to it's normal location... maybe this is updating another item's amount to a location that is not normal... or maybe this is something even more strange that I just don't understand yet... damnit.

This very well could have to do with indexes, because when you take a B bottle or another bottle directly to a C button, from another button, there is data (or no data, im not sure yet) in the indexes for that button that doesn't correspond to the bottle that is now on the button. Maybe I'll get this figured out after I get home from work.

YUP! I figured it out partly. What happens is that the indexes have the wrong values in there and doint point at the correct location AT ALL so what happens is that the bottle is put on B then the index is wrong and we can get a BA effect maybe without even having bottles on B. So far however I'm not exactly sure how we could use it or change the indexes yet (because I'm not sure if putting any item on C that isn't a bottle can effect what is in the index at all, or if putting another non bottle item on C erases hte value at the index).

Oh cool,  this could help us figure out why it works because we can skip more steps, thanks ZFG.

Edit: It's also better for TAS

Damn that is cool :)

___________________________

So the activation on B is very much like the very old bottle duplication trick! Cool now we have more to work off of for understanding. Notice is still works from one C button to another.

___________________________

Something interesting I observed. Notice what ZFG said about pressing it when "link starts pulling if from under his shield". This is when you need to provide input.

There is something special about this part of the animation or the code that is active after this part starts.

Notice that when you put certain items that were never suppossed to be equipped onto C buttons (or B, it doesn't matter) and try to use them, some work as eyedrops, and some have link try to pull an item from under his shield and then the game freezes. There is definitely critical code working here and apparently is open for input. Maybe I'll try pressing one of those items and then bottle to see if we can replace it with a bottle, if this was the case then there is indeed a link between the 2 indefinitely. That would definitely give us more to work with as well in figuring out the precise internal workings of bottle adventure when it places the bottle to B or other C buttons. (or a technical parallel would be pressing the button and then pressing an item that has an empty amount or that can't be pulled [makes buzzing sound]) and seeing if it puts that specific crashing item on B or C button.

___________________

I also just thought of an idea we could use to check when in the process it updates the index for the bottled item, if it does it when equipped, when catching a bottled item and placeing it on a button, or both.

__________________

Other observations, when fast swapping a bottle from B to Cleft (i had 0 bombs on cleft and cright was a bombbag lol) I noticed that the game updated 0 amounts in my deku stick spot when I DONT HAVE ANY DEKU STICKS YET. There is not deku stick picture, just a 0. Also, this reminds me of when I made a vid earlier on about "Ocarina Amounts" and figured it was just a visual glitch. Hmm, maybe I'll go back and look at it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GvGUUJWM0Z8

that is what i was talking about but... maybe it still was a graphical glitch, maybe not. It's a little different (alot actually) but maybe there are similarities.

______________________________

more observations with emu testing:
when an object that has amounts is put into your inventory (anywhere) then the amount is also refreshed and added into the inventory at the default menu location (even if it is in a different place than where you put the item). If you put a bow into the deku nuts spot, the amount 0 will appear in the menu location where the bow normally is, even though there is no bow there. In fact, the cursor cannot be moved to the 0 either because the game still notices you don't have any items in that slot.

The amounts don't swap which items use them. A bow in the same menu location for deku nuts won't get to use deku nut amounts for its ammo. (I'm pretty sure) Maybe i should test it again arg.

Yup, even if the bow is in the same location for deku seeds it cannot use the ammo for what is in that place in memory.

______________________

The issue I have with the whole thing is that a deku stick isn't being placed in the inventory anywhere and yet it's ammunition gets updated into view as if it was...

The same then happens with normal BA too.

_____________________

Okay, here is what i have figured out so far...

If you catch make a bottle go from B to a C button (fast swap or regularly) then the indexes get messed up somehow and basically, when you update the bottle on the C button, it will update other stuff...??? Not sure if the extent of it will only edit deku amount to 0 or what is going on. Also, the deku amount should only show up if there is a deku stick in the inventory but there isn't...

______________________

Okay, now I am confused again....

I gave myself 9 dekusticks and then I did this and it put the amount in the menu to 0 dekusticks... then I equipped Deku stick to C-right and it equips to the button with 9 deku sticks????? What the hell is this 0 that is in the menu place for deku sticks? Usually any item placed in the menu will always update the amount for an item... and that always updates it to it's normal location... maybe this is updating another item's amount to a location that is not normal... or maybe this is something even more strange that I just don't understand yet... damnit.

This very well could have to do with indexes, because when you take a B bottle or another bottle directly to a C button, from another button, there is data (or no data, im not sure yet) in the indexes for that button that doesn't correspond to the bottle that is now on the button. Maybe I'll get this figured out after I get home from work.

YUP! I figured it out partly. What happens is that the indexes have the wrong values in there and doint point at the correct location AT ALL so what happens is that the bottle is put on B then the index is wrong and we can get a BA effect maybe without even having bottles on B. So far however I'm not exactly sure how we could use it or change the indexes yet (because I'm not sure if putting any item on C that isn't a bottle can effect what is in the index at all, or if putting another non bottle item on C erases hte value at the index).

AKA

Edit history:

AKA: 2007-12-28 01:25:50 am

2007-12-28 01:24:21 am

He's back!

I found some weird glitch recently although its probally useless, basically I was trying to do Acryte's bombchu stab method to destroy a colapsable wall I tried to stab it, but instead of blowing up it went right through the wall and continued on past the wall until it eventually exploded. Strange, but nothings ever stranger than fiction in the land of OoT Cheesy

ZFG

Edit history:

ZFG: 2007-12-28 11:10:49 pm

2007-12-28 06:02:27 pm

MrGrunz is a guay

Quote:

About low%, I was wondering, is it possible to use bombs as adult without getting the big bag from bowling?

Quote:

Has cucco jumping with deku stick been confirmed yet?

Comicalflop

2007-12-29 02:50:09 pm

It's time to use the HEALING TOUCH

You can do the cucco jump with any holdable object right? Just go in Kokiri Forest, grab a rock, jump off a ledge, and try jumpslashing with the deku stick.

ZFG

2007-12-29 04:57:49 pm

MrGrunz is a guay

Quote:

You can do the cucco jump with any holdable object right? Just go in Kokiri Forest, grab a rock, jump off a ledge, and try jumpslashing with the deku stick.

Yes, but the question is that is it possible to take out the stick and jumpslash fast enough to still have enough hieght to get over the gate. I can't seem to do it. But I am working on console so.....

Bottles

2007-12-29 05:08:36 pm

I've worked with it last night and it looks very possible. I didn't get it to work but I was able to slash with the stick high enough that link should of grabbed the gate. I just slashed too early. -_-

MANE GALINHA

2007-12-30 12:01:47 pm

I C U BB

Can't seem to get it to work. It looks very possible but I keep slashing the gate. Maybe im just to slow with the whole pulling out deku stick + jumpslash process.

MrSparkle

2007-12-30 05:57:31 pm

Doin Good

The Cucoo Slide. Is it new? I did a normal superslide except I tried to grab a nearby Cucoo instead of the bomb. Once you release R it looks like Link pulls a Cucoo out of the ground...

Once I figure out how to get Nayru's Love early I will try a Ruto Slide...

Bottles

2007-12-30 06:10:01 pm

You mean the cucco warp? It's really old.

edit: Wait you did a superslide off it? If you tried to grab the cucco when the bomb exploded then it's just like a superslide off a bush, rock, etc.

ZFG

2007-12-30 08:58:27 pm

MrGrunz is a guay

If we do make it over the fence then we won't have to do the green buble hover anymore thanks to this.

Phatlip

2007-12-31 09:56:48 am

Quote:

The Cucoo Slide. Is it new? I did a normal superslide except I tried to grab a nearby Cucoo instead of the bomb. Once you release R it looks like Link pulls a Cucoo out of the ground...

Once I figure out how to get Nayru's Love early I will try a Ruto Slide...

"Ruto slide" is possible without NL or bombs, just really hard. I wonder if it saves time anywhere.

Spider-Waffle

(user is banned)

2007-12-31 09:59:26 am

Don't think! feeeeeal

Over the fence? You mean trigger the chu chest to drop without slingshot? Or are you talking about a low% run.

Is that skeleton always there? Is there anyway to bring monsters into another room?

I was thinking couldn't you do side hop climbs and super flips with isg to reach that chu trigger as long as there's something that can hit you?

Cs1987

Edit history:

Cs1987: 2007-12-31 03:02:51 pm

2007-12-31 02:58:14 pm

Some guy

Yeah, that cucco warp is annoying, since it seems like it should be an easy way to get a ground jump without bombs. I imagine it would be very hard to do a time-saving Ruto warp, partly because there are not many areas where it could be useful.

One of the most interesting (but useless) tricks with cuccos is to superslide off a bomb while simultaneously triggering the cucco "death" cutscene with the same bomb. If you do this into the stairs from Kakariko Village to Hyrule Field, you fall into the unloaded Hyrule Field, and get deathwarped back to Kakariko. Is this trick new or old? I have been trying to get into large unloaded areas (Hyrule Field, Lake Hylia etc), and this is the only way I have been able to so far.

Manocheese

Edit history:

Manocheese: 2007-12-31 05:02:02 pm

2007-12-31 05:01:49 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Quote:

One of the most interesting (but useless) tricks with cuccos is to superslide off a bomb while simultaneously triggering the cucco "death" cutscene with the same bomb. If you do this into the stairs from Kakariko Village to Hyrule Field, you fall into the unloaded Hyrule Field, and get deathwarped back to Kakariko. Is this trick new or old?

FIERCE found that a while back, yeah.

Acryte

2007-12-31 11:07:13 pm

Zelda Scientist®

guys if you do megaflip off something like ruto, if you hold shield then can you grab ruto out of the air or will it lose "grab" during the flip?

Then you could grab ruto and flip to switch then place her and not need the fish.

ZFG

2008-01-01 04:34:35 am

MrGrunz is a guay

Quote:

guys if you do megaflip off something like ruto, if you hold shield then can you grab ruto out of the air or will it lose "grab" during the flip?

Then you could grab ruto and flip to switch then place her and not need the fish.

You would have to preform 2 A actions at once, both jump and grab. If you can find a way to do that then it might be possible.

What is the trigger for the Ganon cutscene after pulling the master sword the first time? Is it lack of a certain item (Light medallion?) or does it activate it the first time the "pull sword" sequence activates regardless of items? I have a theory of a cool trick but could only be done if I could activate the cutscene twice...

Happy (almost) New Year, and a happy late Okiyama Day!