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Floogal: 2006-04-08 09:26:57 am
Quote:
i'm not sure, but maybe it's possible to longshot onto the house for the one in lake hylia.


Use the hookshot and Scarecrow's Song.  As mentioned earlier in the thread, only two beans are necessary: Death Mountain Crater and Desert Collossus (and the first one may not even be necessary).  However, some may be helpful as shortcuts -- I'm thinking Lake Hylia, Zora's River, and by the Lost Woods bridge.



Ice Arrows allow you to beat Bonga Bonga faster, so maybe we should warp out after getting the Hover Boots, or just complete Gerudo's Training Ground before doing the Shadow Temple.  I believe that only seven of the nine keys are necessary to reach the Ice Arrows chest.  The Silver Guantlets are only necessary for one key, and the Hover Boots are necessary for none.  If the game were played the "normal" way, then it is possible to get the Ice Arrows before reaching the Spirit or Shadow temples.  No matter what happens, the underwater key should definitely be skipped.

Ice Arrows are also useful for beating "dodgy" enemies, like Stalfos.  Unlike Light or Fire Arrows, which don't do any extra damage, Ice Arrows do double that of a normal arrow.  They also stun the enemy, so think of them as painful Deku Nuts.  For example, against the Stalfos found when escaping Ganon's Castle (and possible other places, too), simply Z-target, load an ice arrow, and wait.  Once the Stalfos drops its guard to attack, release the arrow and follow up with a quick Biggoron Sword jump attack to defeat it.
Speed is the key.
Quote:
only two beans are necessary: Death Mountain Crater

Not necessary, you can get the heart peice by stabbing the rock and then equip hover boots to get a long glide.
We won't need the silver scale anymore than we would need the red shield in a 100% lttp run.
Yes, a cucco riding the ground.
I dug the video out of the other topic for the Crater heart piece:

http://216.86.155.55/videos/1/407792_cec2f_56k.wmv

Now, just 1 bean for Colossus and 1 for early Shadow if we use that.
Yes, a cucco riding the ground.
Sorry for double post, but this needed a bump to be seen... Anyway, I found a small trick in the Water Temple (actually, I found it a long time ago, but meh.) There is a block you need to first pull one way and then pull another from a different hallway. To get to this hallway, you normally have to use an arrow and quickly use your longshot to get past the gate. However, you can use an arrow and then use Hover Boots to get across... May be helpful in getting the longshot. You can beat the Water Temple WITH the longshot and without the Iron Boots, BTW, although this may not help.
One big question is whether you can get every Gold Skulltulla in the Shadow Temple early.  If you can, shadow early is still going to be the fast way as hover boots should tear up the earlier temples.

As per becomming a kid again, it's really lame as you have to do so little then.  We even have bottom of the well early...  Basically it comes down to going and playing the song of storms for the frogs and planting a bean in death mountain crater as well as any other tasks which may be faster the second time as a kid(unfortunately, the entire mask trading sequence must be done the first time).  I think you can do everything else as a kid the first time.  Then again, warp songs might make putting off quite a bit worthwhile.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
you can't.  there's the one by the boat that requires the longshot.
If I recall correctly, isn't there a glitch to get up there without needed the scarecrow/longshot, or am I just thinking of something wrong?  I remember one of the miscelaneous random videos in the normal run topic had you glitching through a wall in a very awkward way to get up on that ledge.
I'm pretty sure that was a crooked-cartridge glitch (which, of course, is illegal).
Yes, a cucco riding the ground.
Quote:
Basically it comes down to going and playing the song of storms for the frogs and planting a bean in death mountain crater as well as any other tasks which may be faster the second time as a kid(unfortunately, the entire mask trading sequence must be done the first time).


You do not need to plant that bean.
Edit history:
Saestrol: 2006-04-25 07:18:15 pm
Speed Running Joy-bringer
Everything will come together in strings, so quite a bit of time can be saved.

Example, right before entering the dodongo cave, jump (and skillfully) land on the container looming above the entrance. Well that would be nice if you just jump and land on it, then loose 1.5 seconds accepting pain. Yes this is old as hell but it's part of the process.

The boomerang can help snatch a few more heart containes with it's pass-through-wall ability once the return trip starts. Somme other things.

At one point, once nearly everything quest-related is obtained, this is where all the 100%-ish item collecting really begins. Just that while other parts of the game are being opened up, getting a lot of things that are in the way.

(I think I'm missing quite a few things, but generally that is what could happen).
Just call me the cynicism machine
Quote:
The boomerang can help snatch a few more heart containes with it's pass-through-wall ability once the return trip starts.


I'm pretty sure you can't grab heart containers with your boomerang.  Hearts, yes, but not heart containers.
Speed is the key.
You can grab Pieces of Heart with the Boomerang, I'm not sure about Heart Container's, though.
Everybody loves Hypnotoad!
I have the feeling he meant heart pieces.  There's no use to using the boomerang to get heart containers, anyway.
Speed Running Joy-bringer
Snatch the heart pieces... yeah that's what I meant... hah hah heh...

Not a convenient exmaple, but you could get the one in the Windmill (in the rare case you go there after Jabu). Or the one right by the waterfall in the therance to Zora's Domain. Or maybe... well I guess there aren't enough cases to warrant the use of it. Oh well.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Quote:
bottles, hookshot etc improve character abilities, after picking them up your character can do stuff he couldn't do before.

maps and compass improve player abilities, or player knowledge. Your character doesn't have any advantages of a map or compassn, since your character cannot even use them. Only the player can. And a good player knows these things anyway, so they can be safely skipped.

By that logic, you shouldn't get the Lens of Truth.  After all, illusionary objects still react the same way without it.  Your character doesn't notice the difference.  It's ultimately just a convenience for the player.

Quote:
And about the pokemon-like saves. It's kind of hard to do things like that, since you start at set locations. The closest to Dampe is dodongo's cavern.

What about the Shadow Temple?
Edit history:
DK64_MASTER: 2006-05-04 08:26:02 am
Quote:
By that logic, you shouldn't get the Lens of Truth.  After all, illusionary objects still react the same way without it.  Your character doesn't notice the difference.  It's ultimately just a convenience for the player.


Oh, it goes without saying that items that appear on the status menu are meant to be collected in a 100% run.

What tub said refers only to objects that are up for discussion, like maps, scarecrow song, compass... since they don't appear in the status menu.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Huh?  The maps and compasses are a big part of the status menu, when you're in a dungeon.
Quote:
Huh?  The maps and compasses are a big part of the status menu, when you're in a dungeon.


You know what I meant.  I was refering to the menu that keeps track of all collectable items.  There's no menu that keeps track of all collectable maps and compasses.
I was once a treehouse
Quote:
What about the Shadow Temple?

Dampe isn't there when you're an adult for the gravediging tour. And as far as I know going to the shadowtemple as a kid is far more timeconsuming than going to dodongo's cavern.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
But why let the menu dictate what should be collected?  Many games don't even have a menu that tells you all that.  If an item is permanently collectable, that makes it part of the 100%, doesn't it?
Edit history:
Fail Boat: 2006-05-04 04:25:51 pm
forum lurker
Getting all the maps and compasses would be stupid.  As for one, they don't stay on your quest status screen unless you're in the dungeon, and two, this is not Majora's Mask as you need to buy the maps off of Tingle, and they also stay on your quest status screen.  Which allow you to see the world map. About the scarecrow's song, you need it to get all the skulltula's!!!!  The one in the Fire Temple ring a bell?

I might do a 100% speed run on this game and by my definition of 100% I mean what Radix posted on the first page.  Right now I'm optimizing my route and it's looking good so far.  I tested the child part and got 11 hearts, 42 skulltula's, and the mask quest done in two hours 48 minutes.  I'll type up my route so far when I get a chance.  Still trying to see if I can get anymore hearts and skulltula's before turning into an adult, so I don't need to backtrack more.
March 16, 2010
Nine pages and no one has put their foot down on 100% defined?
Quote:
But why let the menu dictate what should be collected?  Many games don't even have a menu that tells you all that.  If an item is permanently collectable, that makes it part of the 100%, doesn't it?


Because we can.  As said before, games that don't keep track of items that could be considered collectable are up for debate.

All Zelda games that I've played/seen keep track of items.  Why question the system?
Speed is the key.
Quote:
Nine pages and no one has put their foot down on 100% defined?

It's right there on the first page... Roll Eyes