http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14619&highlight=
looks like you guys have some new TAS strats to learn :p good luck
looks like you guys have some new TAS strats to learn :p good luck
SDA Forum
sinister1
so pro u don't even know
Quote from Patashu:
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14619&highlight=
looks like you guys have some new TAS strats to learn :p good luck
looks like you guys have some new TAS strats to learn :p good luck
I had already seen it b/c McHazard showed me, but yeah, there are a few things from this that might be possible in real time.
sinister1
so pro u don't even know
Quote from Omnigamer:
Will we see IL attempts from you any time soon, or are you referring specifically to improving SS?
I will be doing Mr. Sandman IL attempts at least. I have plans for Don 2, Honda 1, and maybe Von Kaiser.
Sadly I do not think any of this will be useful for SS runs at the moment. However, if I get comfortable enough with the Mr. Sandman stuff I might be able to incorporate it. I would have to be ultra consistent tho, or it would not be worth it.
sinister1
so pro u don't even know
Quote from Deuceler:
I just sat down and watched your Twitch highlight of the TAS Sin, great stuff. What an amazing job by McHazard - and s/o to Zallard1 on the buffer strat!
Thanks!
Here is the TAS replay/discussion with McHazard for anyone that missed it.
Zallard and I have been looking at using McHazard strats on Mr. Sandman and it looks like sub 2:19 is certain at this point. There is a possibility of using something on Honda 1 as well. None of the new stuff is gonna work for SS attempts sadly.
B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★
Sandman could be used in SS, but it's pretty risky unless you commit ALOT of practice to it... and even then, at best it will still be moderately risky. The big problem with it is it has very little payoff for the threat of resetting due to a blocked hit or getting hit on the incorrect side, which is probably why you won't see sinister trying it in SS attempts; consistency is simply more valuable in a game as random as this.
In somewhat related news, I am going after the Sandman IL on stream lately. The luck to get all his short delays + good refill is pretty daunting though, so naturally it is reset heavy. I'm hoping to get sub 2:19 by a significant margin once I get the luck I need. I'll be sure to post any pb's here whenever I get anything.
In somewhat related news, I am going after the Sandman IL on stream lately. The luck to get all his short delays + good refill is pretty daunting though, so naturally it is reset heavy. I'm hoping to get sub 2:19 by a significant margin once I get the luck I need. I'll be sure to post any pb's here whenever I get anything.
sinister1
so pro u don't even know
Quote from Deuceler:
I saw your recent highlight Zallard - good luck man, gonna be quite the task! Watching you guys play, I'd imagine at a certain point in time Sinister is going to have no choice but to go for the Sandman strat - optimization is just way to enticing to not try and achieve
Sadly no. It is way to much risk for something that may not even gain you time due to the way Sandman works (he is unique due to the 1:59 rule so getting an earlier knockdown does not always mean you gain time). If it does happen to gain you time it will only be 1 - 2 seconds at the most. If you fail it, your run is over. Watching Zallard do attempts it is very clear that it cannot be done consistently. There is no backup strat. You will lose at least 5 seconds, possibly more.
The only time this would become relevant to SS would be if the time was pushed below 16:15 at which point it might be worth it.
B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★
So... I have good news and bad news.
Good news: I got sub 2:19!
Bad news: It was literally the first attempt today, so I panicked when I got the 1:53 and did the adelikat method of wasting time until 1:59... I got a 2:18.97 with that method. I will stream attempts in a little bit to try to get the McHazard method after the 1:53.
Good news: I got sub 2:19!
Bad news: It was literally the first attempt today, so I panicked when I got the 1:53 and did the adelikat method of wasting time until 1:59... I got a 2:18.97 with that method. I will stream attempts in a little bit to try to get the McHazard method after the 1:53.
sinister1
so pro u don't even know
Great job Zallard!! I cannot wait to see you push this lower. For those that do not know, McHazard made a theory TAS that is 2:17.61 for Mr. Sandman using the current real time strats. I figure you can lose around 20 frames over the course of the fight and still get a 2:18.61 or lower which is the tentative goal because it would beat the controversial TG time of 2:18.82.
In other news I have been working on new SS strats for Bald Bull 1. The good news is I found some nice improvements. The bad news is that in most scenarios I have to land a star uppercut after his uppercut which is extremely hard to do. I am gonna work on this a bit more and then try to apply it some attempts tonight.
With only the 50% random star at the opening of phase 2 I can either get a 39 (1 star) or a 43 (2 stars). Phase 3 has a lot of options depending on what kind of pace I am on, but in most scenarios I should gain time over my current run.
With regards to IL, I may also be able to replicate the TAS strat for Bull 1. Phase 3 will be ridiculous and the luck needed is also a bit silly (not more than my current IL tho).
In other news I have been working on new SS strats for Bald Bull 1. The good news is I found some nice improvements. The bad news is that in most scenarios I have to land a star uppercut after his uppercut which is extremely hard to do. I am gonna work on this a bit more and then try to apply it some attempts tonight.
With only the 50% random star at the opening of phase 2 I can either get a 39 (1 star) or a 43 (2 stars). Phase 3 has a lot of options depending on what kind of pace I am on, but in most scenarios I should gain time over my current run.
With regards to IL, I may also be able to replicate the TAS strat for Bull 1. Phase 3 will be ridiculous and the luck needed is also a bit silly (not more than my current IL tho).
B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★
So... I did some dinkin' around with emulator practice on Sandman, and I have a save with phases 1:16 and 1:53. Now, with those phases, I tried both the adelikat strat and the McHazard strat to waste time until 1:59 + 1 frame. My results were that the very best I could get in real time with the McHazard strat was 2:19.25, while the adelikat strat got me a 2:18.82 at best. These aren't frame perfect of course, just a bunch of real-time attempts from a save state.
McHazard, could you try that theory TAS with the adelikat strat and see if you get anything faster? It's also possible that I'm losing more time from just human error on the nightmare compared to just buffering the single hit. Before I stream attempts again I want to make sure that I'm doing the optimal strat.
McHazard, could you try that theory TAS with the adelikat strat and see if you get anything faster? It's also possible that I'm losing more time from just human error on the nightmare compared to just buffering the single hit. Before I stream attempts again I want to make sure that I'm doing the optimal strat.
Quote from zallard1:
McHazard, could you try that theory TAS with the adelikat strat and see if you get anything faster? It's also possible that I'm losing more time from just human error on the nightmare compared to just buffering the single hit. Before I stream attempts again I want to make sure that I'm doing the optimal strat.
Tested, and the adelikat strat is faster unless you were REALLY fast getting to phase 3. Optimal time for the adelistrat is 2:17.99, and my strat from the same starting point is 2:18.48. So for now you should use that.
Quote from sinister1:
With regards to IL, I may also be able to replicate the TAS strat for Bull 1. Phase 3 will be ridiculous and the luck needed is also a bit silly (not more than my current IL tho).
Is that punch in phase 2 actually doable in real time then? If so that's good to hear. Also, the current IL's phase 3 isn't that much slower (TAS time was 55.61 with it), so you might want to stick with that.
sinister1
so pro u don't even know
Congrats Zallard! R.I.P Mike Girard
I never thought I would see this day come. There was such an ordeal made over Sandman between the MTPO pros when Girard first claimed his 2:18.97 and then his .82. We thought we would never get to the bottom of it, and it would just be a thorn in our sides for all time. Now it is over and Girard is irrelevant. Thank you McHazard and Zallard, from the bottom of my heart.
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I was able to pull of the Phase 2 TAS strat a few times but it is realllllly tight timing. I would like to go for sub 1:00 on Bald Bull at some point. I can only hope that it can be done without the good refill in phase 3.
My only problem to this point is I cannot seem to find a good strat for phase 2 if I do not get the 1st random star. The guard abuse can still happen but at the very best you will get a 0:46 w/2 stars but it is silly hard. I would rather have one less star. My conclusion is that I will just have to start going for a trickier phase 3 which McHazard confirmed does have a frame perfect dodge required in some cases.
My plan is to take more SS attempts to Bull even if I get a bad Hippo and try to gain the time back there. I can get 1:02 if I go all out and get just the 1 random star (50%)
I never thought I would see this day come. There was such an ordeal made over Sandman between the MTPO pros when Girard first claimed his 2:18.97 and then his .82. We thought we would never get to the bottom of it, and it would just be a thorn in our sides for all time. Now it is over and Girard is irrelevant. Thank you McHazard and Zallard, from the bottom of my heart.
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I was able to pull of the Phase 2 TAS strat a few times but it is realllllly tight timing. I would like to go for sub 1:00 on Bald Bull at some point. I can only hope that it can be done without the good refill in phase 3.
My only problem to this point is I cannot seem to find a good strat for phase 2 if I do not get the 1st random star. The guard abuse can still happen but at the very best you will get a 0:46 w/2 stars but it is silly hard. I would rather have one less star. My conclusion is that I will just have to start going for a trickier phase 3 which McHazard confirmed does have a frame perfect dodge required in some cases.
My plan is to take more SS attempts to Bull even if I get a bad Hippo and try to gain the time back there. I can get 1:02 if I go all out and get just the 1 random star (50%)
B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★
Thanks for the kind words deuceler and sinister. Thanks again to McHazard mind blowing TAS of the game which was the only reason that this run was even possible. I've uploaded the run to youtube and will submit it to SDA along with sinister's improvements for some IL's and of course his single segment run.
sinister1
so pro u don't even know
Quote from DK28:
You are a Beast zallard, that is all. Tell me there's a live recording with your audible reaction!
<-- Bill approves
<-- Bill approves
Here is the Twitch highlight w/reaction
(user is banned)
MK Wizard
R.I.P. Mike Girard my ass sinister1. It's not my fault you guys didn't figure out the phase 1 strategy for Sandman till just lately besides me not telling it to you guys it I guess. You guys were disrespecting me. That's why I didn't tell you guys. I got faster than 2:18.61 on Sandman a long time ago with that same strategy and have other faster vids for other characters too. I just don't care to come on here and brag about it every step of the way like some of you do. As far as record videos go these days seeing isn't believing because of all the digital editing people can do. Only a recording of the player playing in front of their gaming equipment is the only true way to tell if they got the record for real or not. Twin Galaxies and Speed Demos Archive both I'm sure have had fake digitally edited videos submitted and approved before.