Metal Combat - Falcon's Revenge Speedrun

2010-05-01 07:09:40 pm

Goatragon!

There were two games, as far as I am concerned, that made having a Super Scope worth it. Battle Clash was one of them. Its sequel Metal Combat - Falcon's Revenge was the second (now that I think of it, though, even Metal Combat alone made having a Super Scope worth it!).

Metal Combat improved on everything from Battle Clash and more. It's one of the many reasons I regret not holding on to my SNES and definitely the main reason I regret not holding on to my Super Scope because Metal Combat was one of my most favorite games. And while I can't undo that mistake, I can still get hold of an SNES, a Super Scope, and Metal Combat. And, in fact, I have. They've been ordered and hopefully shall arrive in the next few weeks. As soon as they do, I will begin my work on a run of Metal Combat.

It's a logical next step for me in that game. I was pretty good at it and it was always a lot of fun to soundly dispatch an opponent, but it's even more satisfying to soundly dispatch your opponent quickly and efficiently. So I figured that if I was going to work on that, then why not do a run?

I'm also doing this run because I feel that this game is a much overlooked gem of the SNES that deserves some attention.

I do have some questions about how any runs for Metal Combat might be categorized, though.

1. The first play-through with either of the two usable tanks, the Falcon and then later the Tornado, requires one to play through a training session before the battle game. But after the first play-through with each tank one can jump right into the battle game without training. Would runs on the first play-through and runs on the subsequent play-throughs qualify as different categories?

2. My plan would be to at least do runs from the very start (training+battle game) with both the Falcon and the Tornado using whatever means necessary to finish the game as quickly as possible. I would also like to do runs that achieve the best ending, but would those fall into a different category for this game? (the best ending requires that you don't destroy an ally to reveal a boss' weak spot)

3. What would all the run categories for this game be, anyway?

If any question requires more explanation or clarification, I'll be glad to do so. Just want to make sure I understand how the rules and guidelines apply here so I'm ready to go once everything I need to run the game arrives.

Thread title:

There were two games, as far as I am concerned, that made having a Super Scope worth it.  Battle Clash was one of them.  Its sequel Metal Combat - Falcon's Revenge was the second (now that I think of it, though, even Metal Combat alone made having a Super Scope worth it!).

Metal Combat improved on everything from Battle Clash and more.  It's one of the many reasons I regret not holding on to my SNES and definitely the main reason I regret not holding on to my Super Scope because Metal Combat was one of my most favorite games.  And while I can't undo that mistake, I can still get hold of an SNES, a Super Scope, and Metal Combat.  And, in fact, I have.  They've been ordered and hopefully shall arrive in the next few weeks.  As soon as they do, I will begin my work on a run of Metal Combat.

It's a logical next step for me in that game.  I was pretty good at it and it was always a lot of fun to soundly dispatch an opponent, but it's even more satisfying to soundly dispatch your opponent quickly and efficiently.  So I figured that if I was going to work on that, then why not do a run?

I'm also doing this run because I feel that this game is a much overlooked gem of the SNES that deserves some attention.

I do have some questions about how any runs for Metal Combat might be categorized, though.

1. The first play-through with either of the two usable tanks, the Falcon and then later the Tornado, requires one to play through a training session before the battle game.  But after the first play-through with each tank one can jump right into the battle game without training.  Would runs on the first play-through and runs on the subsequent play-throughs qualify as different categories?

2. My plan would be to at least do runs from the very start (training+battle game) with both the Falcon and the Tornado using whatever means necessary to finish the game as quickly as possible.  I would also like to do runs that achieve the best ending, but would those fall into a different category for this game? (the best ending requires that you don't destroy an ally to reveal a boss' weak spot)

3. What would all the run categories for this game be, anyway?

If any question requires more explanation or clarification, I'll be glad to do so.  Just want to make sure I understand how the rules and guidelines apply here so I'm ready to go once everything I need to run the game arrives.

mikwuyma

2010-05-01 07:17:38 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Hey, I love this game too! It's really the only reason why I bought a Super Score (for a whopping 10 dollars back in 1995). I think I still have the Super Scope stored somewhere in all of its 6 AA battery hogging goodness. Cheesy

1. No

2. IIRC, if what I'm thinking is correct, there isn't enough difference between normally playing through the game and getting the best ending to justify them as different categories. The only difference is the final boss fight, right?

3. 2 characters x 4 difficulties x 2 (segmented or single-segment) = 16 categories. I would be really surprised if you actually bothered to run every single category.

P.S. Battle Clash sucks.

ZakkyTheHybrid

2010-05-01 07:47:01 pm

Goatragon!

That clarifies things quite a bit, thanks!

But let me just make sure I understand.

1. I can, and very much should, skip the training.

2. Yeah, the only difference is the last boss fight where you aren't supposed to kill Rola. But, of course, it's way faster to defeat the final boss by killing Rola.

3. Yeah, I don't think I'd do that. I really like the game, but I'm already going to have my hands full trying to do the two runs I already plan on doing. A lot is going to depend on me timing and locating shots correctly and I know I'm likely going to have quite a few restarts due to missed shots. I'll just need to breath deep and concentrate. Smiley

Are there really four difficulty levels? Aside from the normal mode and then Real-Mode, I never realized that there were any other difficulty levels.

As for Battle Clash, yeah, the more I remember of it, the more I agree with that.

P.S. For Metal Combat, the Super Scope can hog my sets of 6 AA batteries all it wants.

ZenicReverie

2010-05-03 12:06:33 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

Good luck, and I hope your batteries don't die in the middle of a good run.

ZakkyTheHybrid

2010-05-03 03:10:08 pm

Goatragon!

Thanks! And yeah, I'd better be careful about those batteries.

mikwuyma

Edit history:

mikwuyma: 2010-05-03 05:08:36 pm

2010-05-03 04:41:28 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Wow, this topic makes me want to play Metal Combat again.

1. Exactly, skip the intro.

2. Yep, that's how I remembered it. I forgot how you're supposed to kill the boss without sarcrificing Rola though. If you want to make a separate video of the final stage to show the ending, that's cool too.

3. Yeah, I figured as much, but you did ask how many categories there were. Tongue

Difficulties: IIRC, after the BALL code is inputted, you can choose from 3 difficulties: low, medium, and high. And yes, they're all harder than the default setting, even easy.

Battle Clash: Maybe if Metal Combat didn't exist it wouldn't look so bad, but Metal Combat crushes it on every level imaginable. Though even if Metal Combat didn't exist, only one level of charge is really dull and boring. Sad

EDIT: These videos might be of interest to you.

Hmm, there's actually a run on high difficulty here and here.

Wow, this topic makes me want to play Metal Combat again.

1. Exactly, skip the intro.

2. Yep, that's how I remembered it. I forgot how you're supposed to kill the boss without sarcrificing Rola though. If you want to make a separate video of the final stage to show the ending, that's cool too.

3. Yeah, I figured as much, but you did ask how many categories there were. :P

Difficulties: IIRC, after the BALL code is inputted, you can choose from 3 difficulties: low, medium, and high. And yes, they're all harder than the default setting, even easy.

Battle Clash: Maybe if Metal Combat didn't exist it wouldn't look so bad, but Metal Combat crushes it on every level imaginable. Though even if Metal Combat didn't exist, only one level of charge is really dull and boring. :(

EDIT: These videos might be of interest to you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt8CbF0VVVs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riuXIvFSVLU&feature=watch_response_rev

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNZ3DVp-EV8

Hmm, there's actually a run on high difficulty [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRbgtYmXCNY]here[/url] and [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPV_4vCjWsI]here[/url].

ZakkyTheHybrid

Edit history:

ZakkyTheHybrid: 2010-05-03 07:39:23 pm

2010-05-03 05:09:39 pm

Goatragon!

Cool.

Intro/Training: I'm glad I can skip the training. It's good on your first play with each ST so you can learn how to use the ST's abilities, but after that it's just tedious. I find myself really just wanting to get to the battle game already. Tongue

As for the final boss, I had read somewhere long ago that you could just turbo shot it to death while fending off its shots carefully. That was, as you can imagine, very long and tedious, though if you wanted the job done, it worked. However, I discovered on my own through experimentation (because turbo-shooting the boss was sheer torture due to how long it took) that a much quicker way is to just charge shot the "eyes" that open up all around its body until you damage the body enough for Rola to escape.

Categories: I thought it would be interesting to know even if I don't plan on running all of those.

Difficulties: Ah! I remember now. I guess I forgot because I never really used the code much.

Battle Clash: My thoughts exactly. I'd like add that only being able to use one ST was boring, too. In Metal Combat if you know how to use the Tornado the right way, you can really tear up your opponents.

EDIT: Thanks for the videos! I've only taken a look at the Garam2 ones and it's good to see that they show the strategy I'll be using. It would be nice if he jumped right at the start like in the 3+ sec. Tornado video, but I don't know if I've actually ever seen him do that before.

I already do have some strategies planned from what I remember when I last played the game and it'll be interesting to see if the full run video matches up with any of my plans.

EDIT: Oops! Upon watching the full run video, I found out that Rola doesn't actually escape until you destroy the boss. Shooting the "eyes" damages the body enough to open up a larger and permanently exposed weakpoint.

On a second note about that full run video, there are some really good methods I can put into play for my Tornado run. Not to mention the fact that I'll have some par times to work off of, as well. Thanks again!

Cool.

Intro/Training: I'm glad I can skip the training.  It's good on your first play with each ST so you can learn how to use the ST's abilities, but after that it's just tedious.  I find myself really just wanting to get to the battle game already. :P

As for the final boss, I had read somewhere long ago that you could just turbo shot it to death while fending off its shots carefully.  That was, as you can imagine, very long and tedious, though if you wanted the job done, it worked.  However, I discovered on my own through experimentation (because turbo-shooting the boss was sheer torture due to how long it took) that a much quicker way is to just charge shot the "eyes" that open up all around its body until you damage the body enough for Rola to escape.

Categories: I thought it would be interesting to know even if I don't plan on running all of those.

Difficulties: Ah!  I remember now.  I guess I forgot because I never really used the code much.

Battle Clash:  My thoughts exactly.  I'd like add that only being able to use one ST was boring, too.  In Metal Combat if you know how to use the Tornado the right way, you can really tear up your opponents.

EDIT: Thanks for the videos!  I've only taken a look at the Garam2 ones and it's good to see that they show the strategy I'll be using.  It would be nice if he jumped right at the start like in the 3+ sec. Tornado video, but I don't know if I've actually ever seen him do that before.

I already do have some strategies planned from what I remember when I last played the game and it'll be interesting to see if the full run video matches up with any of my plans.

EDIT: Oops!  Upon watching the full run video, I found out that Rola doesn't actually escape until you destroy the boss.  Shooting the "eyes" damages the body enough to open up a larger and permanently exposed weakpoint.

On a second note about that full run video, there are some really good methods I can put into play for my Tornado run.  Not to mention the fact that I'll have some par times to work off of, as well.  Thanks again!

ZakkyTheHybrid

2010-05-09 12:12:13 am

Goatragon!

Currently working on strategies for a run with the Falcon. For anyone curious, here's my progress so far:

Garam2 - The strategy for this guy is very simple, but can be tricky to pull off. A treble shot to his torso will cause him to leap and expose his weak spot. A level 1 charge shot or higher to the weak spot will instantly destroy him.
Total shots to defeat: 2

Typically this will net me a time between 6-7 seconds, though often closer to 7. Using this strategy will be a must as it takes far longer to defeat him otherwise. Executing it on the first attempt is a must, as well, as it will cost 6-7 more to charge up another treble shot and hit him so he reveals his weak spot again.

Best practice time: 0'6"13
Comments: Since my average time is usually 0'6"30, this was pretty good. It's too bad it was only practice, but I'll try to at least match it when I start running and hopefully even beat that time.

Siamang - His tail is his weak spot and it's the hardest target to hit, naturally. Tongue

My strategy is to treble shot his tail twice. He always will stop to shoot at me and will give me an opening to shoot his tail. Shooting his tail with the treble shot will stun him just long enough for me to charge up another treble shot and hit his tail again. This will take him out.
Total shots to defeat: 2

Best practice time: 0'8"45
Comments: I was slightly slow here due to playing it safe so I didn't miss any shots. It'll only cut down the time by a few split seconds, but those split seconds add up, so it's still good to work on.

Wong - First I charge up a treble shot and shoot the arm joint. Then when his head is exposed, I fire a level 1 charge shot at it to destroy it. Following that up by successfully hitting him with another level 1 charge shot will take him out.
Total shots to defeat: 3

Best practice time: 0'9"06
Comments: I was a little slow, being careful, and I missed the third shot and lost a second or two.

Griffin - This one's a bit tough. He starts by flying off-screen at the bottom and then flies back up. I charge up a treble shot and then try to hit his left horn as he comes up from the bottom of the screen. Then I fire another treble shot to take out his second horn when he stops to fire at me. I quickly follow that up by firing a bomb. Bombs don't do a lot of damage, but they are useful in delaying an opponent's next attack. This is helpful because getting hit by enough of your opponent's attacks or the more powerful attacks will lower your shot's charge level. The bomb delays his next attack long enough for me to charge up a treble shot. I then fire at his legs and take him out.
Total shots to defeat: 3 + 1 bomb

Best practice time: 0'13"11
Comments: I actually hit his right horn when he came onto the screen, but fortunately I recovered by getting his left horn and finishing off the strategy perfectly. The reason I try to go for his left horn is because I've noticed that some opponents' methods of attack vary depending on where you shoot them, but fortunately his pattern stayed the same even though I got the right horn. It may be possible to do this quicker than my best practice time, but I don't think it would be by much.

That's what I've developed, so far. I'm currently attempting to develop a good strategy for Viscount. So far I've found that a good way to do some significant damage to him fast is to hit his bazooka and take it out with one shot, followed by taking out his legs. Unfortunately, the aim has to be precise to take the bazooka out. Luck also plays a big role here, too. The only time, I've found, that you can destroy his bazooka in one shot is when he fires a charged shot from it. However, he only fires it half of the time. His speed also makes him difficult and waiting for him to stop and fire can take a while so it's necessary to anticipate his movements to optimize the time to defeat him. I should have this strategy wrapped up soon, but I decided to take a break as it was irritating to fail at destroying his bazooka.

More to report soon, but in the meantime any feedback on my progress so far is quite welcome. And suggestions are always welcome, as well.

Currently working on strategies for a run with the Falcon.  For anyone curious, here's my progress so far:

[b]Garam2[/b] - The strategy for this guy is very simple, but can be tricky to pull off.  A treble shot to his torso will cause him to leap and expose his weak spot.  A level 1 charge shot or higher to the weak spot will instantly destroy him. 
Total shots to defeat: [b]2[/b]

Typically this will net me a time between 6-7 seconds, though often closer to 7.  Using this strategy will be a must as it takes far longer to defeat him otherwise.  Executing it on the first attempt is a must, as well, as it will cost 6-7 more to charge up another treble shot and hit him so he reveals his weak spot again.

Best practice time: [b][i]0'6"13[/i][/b]
Comments: Since my average time is usually 0'6"30, this was pretty good.  It's too bad it was only practice, but I'll try to at least match it when I start running and hopefully even beat that time.

[b]Siamang[/b] - His tail is his weak spot and it's the hardest target to hit, naturally. :P  My strategy is to treble shot his tail twice.  He always will stop to shoot at me and will give me an opening to shoot his tail.  Shooting his tail with the treble shot will stun him just long enough for me to charge up another treble shot and hit his tail again.  This will take him out.
Total shots to defeat: [b]2[/b]

Best practice time: [i][b]0'8"45[/b][/i]
Comments: I was slightly slow here due to playing it safe so I didn't miss any shots.  It'll only cut down the time by a few split seconds, but those split seconds add up, so it's still good to work on.

[b]Wong[/b] - First I charge up a treble shot and shoot the arm joint.  Then when his head is exposed, I fire a level 1 charge shot at it to destroy it.  Following that up by successfully hitting him with another level 1 charge shot will take him out.
Total shots to defeat: [b]3[/b]

Best practice time: [i][b]0'9"06[/b][/i]
Comments: I was a little slow, being careful, and I missed the third shot and lost a second or two.

[b]Griffin[/b] - This one's a bit tough.  He starts by flying off-screen at the bottom and then flies back up.  I charge up a treble shot and then try to hit his left horn as he comes up from the bottom of the screen.  Then I fire another treble shot to take out his second horn when he stops to fire at me.  I quickly follow that up by firing a bomb.  Bombs don't do a lot of damage, but they are useful in delaying an opponent's next attack.  This is helpful because getting hit by enough of your opponent's attacks or the more powerful attacks will lower your shot's charge level.  The bomb delays his next attack long enough for me to charge up a treble shot.  I then fire at his legs and take him out.
Total shots to defeat: [b]3 + 1 bomb[/b]

Best practice time: [b][i]0'13"11[/i][/b]
Comments: I actually hit his right horn when he came onto the screen, but fortunately I recovered by getting his left horn and finishing off the strategy perfectly.  The reason I try to go for his left horn is because I've noticed that some opponents' methods of attack vary depending on where you shoot them, but fortunately his pattern stayed the same even though I got the right horn.  It may be possible to do this quicker than my best practice time, but I don't think it would be by much.

That's what I've developed, so far.  I'm currently attempting to develop a good strategy for Viscount.  So far I've found that a good way to do some significant damage to him fast is to hit his bazooka and take it out with one shot, followed by taking out his legs.  Unfortunately, the aim has to be precise to take the bazooka out.  Luck also plays a big role here, too.  The only time, I've found, that you can destroy his bazooka in one shot is when he fires a charged shot from it.  However, he only fires it half of the time.  His speed also makes him difficult and waiting for him to stop and fire can take a while so it's necessary to anticipate his movements to optimize the time to defeat him.  I should have this strategy wrapped up soon, but I decided to take a break as it was irritating to fail at destroying his bazooka.

More to report soon, but in the meantime any feedback on my progress so far is quite welcome.  And suggestions are always welcome, as well.

ZakkyTheHybrid

2010-05-19 09:20:27 pm

Goatragon!

Progress Update:

I have my strategies for using the Falcon and hope to begin running soon. Right now I'm just waiting (very impatiently) for the means to record a run to arrive.

While working on and practicing the execution of my strategies I kept track of my times. The following are the best times I've managed so far on each opponent:

Garam2 - 0'06"21
Siamang - 0'08"41
Wong - 0'07"50
Griffin - 0'13"11
Viscount - 0'20"97
Thanatos - 0'24"60
Arachnus - 0'23"51
Cobra - 0'24"26
Groken - 0'32"45
Virvius 1 - 0'19"20
Virvius 2 - 0'12"68
Giga-Desp 1 - 0'18"01
Giga-Desp 2 - 0'12"55

By the game clock, the total time would be 3'43"46. Of course, this total time is just assuming each opponent behaves either exactly the way I need them to or close enough and that I miss very few shots and none of the critical ones.

And actually, the total time can be even faster with extremely good luck on opponent patterns, quicker timing (firing immediately upon a charge level being ready), and leading your shots correctly so that the opponent runs right into them. However, as is always the case, trying to get all of these factors to work together is a pain. And it seems that every time I think I know what's going to happen, the game decides to change things up.

I can't even count how many times I've studied an opponent moving one way after I've attacked and not followed up with an attack and then had the opponent move the other way when I actually do attempt a follow-up attack. And there are some instances that make me think that the game actually has some idea of where you're going to fire and decides to act accordingly. Tongue

Still, despite all of that and the fairly frequent frustrations I ran into when trying to develop and then execute strategies, I'm very much looking forward to running the game. I've come a long way from the days when I couldn't complete the game without continuing and when it took me the total of my current best individual opponent times to defeat just one opponent.

Progress Update:

I have my strategies for using the Falcon and hope to begin running soon.  Right now I'm just waiting (very impatiently) for the means to record a run to arrive.

While working on and practicing the execution of my strategies I kept track of my times.  The following are the best times I've managed so far on each opponent:

Garam2 - 0'06"21
Siamang - 0'08"41
Wong	- 0'07"50
Griffin - 0'13"11
Viscount - 0'20"97
Thanatos - 0'24"60
Arachnus - 0'23"51
Cobra - 0'24"26
Groken - 0'32"45
Virvius 1 - 0'19"20
Virvius 2 - 0'12"68
Giga-Desp 1 - 0'18"01
Giga-Desp 2 - 0'12"55

By the game clock, the total time would be 3'43"46.  Of course, this total time is just assuming each opponent behaves either exactly the way I need them to or close enough and that I miss very few shots and none of the critical ones.

And actually, the total time can be even faster with extremely good luck on opponent patterns, quicker timing (firing immediately upon a charge level being ready), and leading your shots correctly so that the opponent runs right into them.  However, as is always the case, trying to get all of these factors to work together is a pain.  And it seems that every time I think I know what's going to happen, the game decides to change things up.

I can't even count how many times I've studied an opponent moving one way after I've attacked and not followed up with an attack and then had the opponent move the other way when I actually do attempt a follow-up attack.  And there are some instances that make me think that the game actually has some idea of where you're going to fire and decides to act accordingly. :P

Still, despite all of that and the fairly frequent frustrations I ran into when trying to develop and then execute strategies, I'm very much looking forward to running the game.  I've come a long way from the days when I couldn't complete the game without continuing and when it took me the [i]total[/i] of my current best individual opponent times to defeat just one opponent.

ZakkyTheHybrid

2010-06-18 10:18:47 am

Goatragon!

Finally I'm able to record my gameplay, so I've begun attempting runs.

One of the challenges that I've been aware of from my previous experiences with the game is that if you miss an opportunity to strike a crippling blow to your opponent, you either will have to wait a long while for it to present itself again or it won't happen again. Since it presents a huge loss in time (and looks pretty bad), I start over when that happens. So far it's resulted in quite a few resets.

However, what seems to have resulted in an equal amount of resets is when I've pressed the Fire button on the Super Scope and the game doesn't fire the shot. I'm pretty sure if I watch how I press the button I can work around it, so I'm hoping that works.

On the plus side, though, I did achieve a new personal best on Garam2 (0'06"08) and I caught it on video. I know Garam2 is the first battle and the easiest, but taking him out quickly is still a bit of a challenge.

ZakkyTheHybrid

2010-06-28 11:40:06 pm

Goatragon!

Quote from mikwuyma:

3. 2 characters x 4 difficulties x 2 (segmented or single-segment) = 16 categories. I would be really surprised if you actually bothered to run every single category.

Is it possible to do a segmented run on Metal Combat? I hadn't started back up on the game at the time I'd asked the question of how many categories there would be, so I didn't quite remember how the game saves progress and didn't think to ask this then.

The reason I ask is because I've noticed that the game saves your progress when you quit/reset on the map screen or after you've lost a battle. But if you've reset during a battle, when you resume your game it always completely erases your progress and starts you from the beginning.

Just wanted to find out if anyone knows as I'm interested in also attempting a segmented run, but given the way the save system appears to work I'm not sure if that's possible.

Strymon

Edit history:

Strymon: 2010-06-30 12:18:13 pm

2010-06-29 01:28:55 pm

Hiya!

Metal Combat is one of my favorite all time games, so it's nice to see someone else with alot of interest in it! Grin

As to your question about a segmented run, you'd have to time yourself using a stopwatch or something else. If you purposely die on one of the fights and reload from that death, the game clock at the end that lists your times will combine the time you spent dying with the time you took to actually kill it, so it won't be an accurate reading. So I think it's possible, but you'll need to time yourself. Just something to keep in mind.

I primarily use Tornado when I play the game. I just like how the shot charging works more than Falcon's, but it's just preference Tongue

While I don't have any means to record any runs, I'd still love to help out with any strategies when you get to the Tornado side of things, if you're still gonna do a run. Here are my times for each ST using Tornado on default difficulty (NOT inputting BALL):

Garam2: 6"18
Siamang: 8"50
Wong: 5"40
Griffin: 13"90
Viscount: 16"41
Thanatos: 24"58
Arachnus: 14"83
Cobra: 15"85
Groken: 28"11
Virvius 1: 25"51
Virvius 2: 10"50
Giga-desp 1: 20"01
Giga-desp 2 (killing Rola): 11"38 (I actually have a Falcon record here that's exactly the same time :P)

Total Combined: 3'21"16

Notes:
-Garam's time can be cut down to about 3.5 seconds, as shown in that video that was posted above, however it requires luck and a very well placed shot. From my findings, he jumps as his first move about 1/4-1/3 of the time, so, again, it's merely luck to get that better time. Good thing he's the first fight, so you can reset quickly if he doesn't do it Tongue

-I'll have to try your Siamang strategy with Tornado. Right now, I wait and charge up completely with Tornado at the start, shoot once to cancel out one of his shots (not the full charge, but just hitting the fire button once to release only part of the shot. I'm sure you know what I mean, but it's hard to describe :P), then taking his next 4 weak shots (they don't bring the charge down at all), and by then I've charged up fully. He then flips over and starts to do something else, but is completely still; hitting any part of him with that full charge is an instant kill. It's very easy and works every time.
EDIT: Ya, forget all that stuff. Just tried it with your strat and got 8"50. Can't believe I never tried it before.

-On Wong, with Tornado, I find that I just need to hit his shield joint with a fairly low charged shot (3 bars, one before yellow), then hit his middle piece that pops up with a 2-bar shot, then hit him with another 3-bar shot anywhere to get the kill. Again, I'm not really sure how strong Falcon's shots are relative to Tornado, but perhaps try just three level-1's for your three shots?
EDIT: Just tried out some stuff on Wong with Falcon, and you do need to throw in a treble shot in there. I found it easier though to hit his shield joint with a level-1, hit the head part with a level-1, and then finish with the treble instead of using the treble first. I just find the level-1 easier to hit with, but that's preference again Tongue

Managed to get an 8"37

-On Groken, a little trick I use towards the end of the fight is to use a bomb when she lifts up after you've killed the two snake things (the spot you need to hit to finish her off). It's much easier and more reliable than timing a well-placed shot; just drop it anytime before she lifts up, and it'll get the job done.

-You have a very impressive time on Virvius 2 with Falcon, I don't think I've been anywhere close to that (probably somewhere in the mid-20's).

While getting good times on each individual ST is easy, it's always harder to string them all together and get a good time. I find Viscount and Virvius 1 are always my downfall Sad

My best time doing a full run currently is 3'59"04 (just baaaarely made sub-4 :P), and I remember having an awful time on Viscount because I botched a bomb. Good luck trying the full run!

Hiya!

Metal Combat is one of my favorite all time games, so it's nice to see someone else with alot of interest in it! ;D

As to your question about a segmented run, you'd have to time yourself using a stopwatch or something else. If you purposely die on one of the fights and reload from that death, the game clock at the end that lists your times will combine the time you spent dying with the time you took to actually kill it, so it won't be an accurate reading. So I think it's possible, but you'll need to time yourself. Just something to keep in mind.

I primarily use Tornado when I play the game. I just like how the shot charging works more than Falcon's, but it's just preference :P While I don't have any means to record any runs, I'd still love to help out with any strategies when you get to the Tornado side of things, if you're still gonna do a run. Here are my times for each ST using Tornado on default difficulty (NOT inputting BALL):

Garam2: 6"18
Siamang: 8"50
Wong: 5"40
Griffin: 13"90
Viscount: 16"41
Thanatos: 24"58
Arachnus: 14"83
Cobra: 15"85
Groken: 28"11
Virvius 1: 25"51
Virvius 2: 10"50
Giga-desp 1: 20"01
Giga-desp 2 (killing Rola): 11"38 (I actually have a Falcon record here that's exactly the same time :P)

Total Combined: 3'21"16

Notes: 
-Garam's time can be cut down to about 3.5 seconds, as shown in that video that was posted above, however it requires luck and a very well placed shot. From my findings, he jumps as his first move about 1/4-1/3 of the time, so, again, it's merely luck to get that better time. Good thing he's the first fight, so you can reset quickly if he doesn't do it :P

-I'll have to try your Siamang strategy with Tornado. Right now, I wait and charge up completely with Tornado at the start, shoot once to cancel out one of his shots (not the full charge, but just hitting the fire button once to release only part of the shot. I'm sure you know what I mean, but it's hard to describe :P), then taking his next 4 weak shots (they don't bring the charge down at all), and by then I've charged up fully. He then flips over and starts to do something else, but is completely still; hitting any part of him with that full charge is an instant kill. It's very easy and works every time. 
EDIT: Ya, forget all that stuff. Just tried it with your strat and got 8"50. Can't believe I never tried it before.

-On Wong, with Tornado, I find that I just need to hit his shield joint with a fairly low charged shot (3 bars, one before yellow), then hit his middle piece that pops up with a 2-bar shot, then hit him with another 3-bar shot anywhere to get the kill. Again, I'm not really sure how strong Falcon's shots are relative to Tornado, but perhaps try just three level-1's for your three shots?
EDIT: Just tried out some stuff on Wong with Falcon, and you do need to throw in a treble shot in there. I found it easier though to hit his shield joint with a level-1, hit the head part with a level-1, and then finish with the treble instead of using the treble first. I just find the level-1 easier to hit with, but that's preference again :P Managed to get an 8"37

-On Groken, a little trick I use towards the end of the fight is to use a bomb when she lifts up after you've killed the two snake things (the spot you need to hit to finish her off). It's much easier and more reliable than timing a well-placed shot; just drop it anytime before she lifts up, and it'll get the job done.

-You have a very impressive time on Virvius 2 with Falcon, I don't think I've been anywhere close to that (probably somewhere in the mid-20's).

While getting good times on each individual ST is easy, it's always harder to string them all together and get a good time. I find Viscount and Virvius 1 are always my downfall :( My best time doing a full run currently is 3'59"04 (just baaaarely made sub-4 :P), and I remember having an awful time on Viscount because I botched a bomb. Good luck trying the full run!

ZakkyTheHybrid

2010-07-04 12:10:22 am

Goatragon!

Quote from Strymon:

As to your question about a segmented run, you'd have to time yourself using a stopwatch or something else. If you purposely die on one of the fights and reload from that death, the game clock at the end that lists your times will combine the time you spent dying with the time you took to actually kill it, so it won't be an accurate reading. So I think it's possible, but you'll need to time yourself. Just something to keep in mind.

Yeah, very true. But if that method is acceptable as a segmented run, then I wouldn't mind doing that.

Quote from Strymon:

-Garam's time can be cut down to about 3.5 seconds, as shown in that video that was posted above, however it requires luck and a very well placed shot.

Yeah, that looks very difficult to pull off. It took me a while to just be able to consistently finish Garam2 quickly. Here's a link to a vid of me finishing him in 6"08 with the Falcon:

Haven't gotten terribly close to that since, though. I average around 6"30 at the moment.

Quote from Strymon:

EDIT: Ya, forget all that stuff. Just tried it with your strat and got 8"50. Can't believe I never tried it before.

It's the quickest strategy I've found, so far, but I have difficulty consistently hitting the tail. Tongue

Here's one instance where I didn't have any problems and took him in 8"43:

Quote from Strymon:

EDIT: Just tried out some stuff on Wong with Falcon, and you do need to throw in a treble shot in there. I found it easier though to hit his shield joint with a level-1, hit the head part with a level-1, and then finish with the treble instead of using the treble first. I just find the level-1 easier to hit with, but that's preference again Tongue

Managed to get an 8"37

I actually got to thinking about that and worked out a strategy that allowed me to defeat him in only 5"23. I started off with the L1 shot to the joint, then the L1 to the head, but instead of following with a treble shot, I dropped a bomb, and then added an L1 shot. The toughest part of this, I found, was hitting with the first shot. If I can hit the joint right off, the rest should be easy.

I recorded a video of a successful execution of this strategy. Though, as you might notice, it took me quite a few attempts to pull it off.

I was also a little slow with the final shot, so it may actually be possible to get the time just under 5 seconds.

Quote from Strymon:

-On Groken, a little trick I use towards the end of the fight is to use a bomb when she lifts up after you've killed the two snake things (the spot you need to hit to finish her off). It's much easier and more reliable than timing a well-placed shot; just drop it anytime before she lifts up, and it'll get the job done.

I'll have to try that. It'll certainly cut down on my frustration with hitting that spot at times.

Quote from Strymon:

-You have a very impressive time on Virvius 2 with Falcon, I don't think I've been anywhere close to that (probably somewhere in the mid-20's).

Using the Falcon, the trick is to use the V-System. I never really had any use for it until then. Using it will not only keep Virvius 2 still, but allow you to take out his four side pods with three L1 shots. After that, just treble shot the main body and follow with an L2 in the same place, then bye bye Virvius 2. I'll do a strategy test video and post it up in the next day or so.

Quote from Strymon:

While getting good times on each individual ST is easy, it's always harder to string them all together and get a good time.

Yeah, that's what's been giving me the most difficulty, so far, with attempting my single-segment run. Siamang has been a lot of trouble so far due to the "hitting the tail" problem I mentioned above and if I were to try to execute my new Wong strategy every time, that would really be a lot of trouble at this point. But I'm going to keep at it. I'll also continue to upload individual videos to at least demonstrate what strategies I'm using.

Oh, and sorry for all the quoting. There was a lot I wanted to respond to. I've really gotten into the game more so than I'd ever been before, so it's nice to know there's someone who shares that interest.

[quote="Strymon"]
As to your question about a segmented run, you'd have to time yourself using a stopwatch or something else. If you purposely die on one of the fights and reload from that death, the game clock at the end that lists your times will combine the time you spent dying with the time you took to actually kill it, so it won't be an accurate reading. So I think it's possible, but you'll need to time yourself. Just something to keep in mind.
[/quote]

Yeah, very true.  But if that method is acceptable as a segmented run, then I wouldn't mind doing that.

[quote="Strymon"]
-Garam's time can be cut down to about 3.5 seconds, as shown in that video that was posted above, however it requires luck and a very well placed shot.
[/quote]

Yeah, that looks very difficult to pull off.  It took me a while to just be able to consistently finish Garam2 quickly.  Here's a link to a vid of me finishing him in 6"08 with the Falcon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6tJ3YyZld4

Haven't gotten terribly close to that since, though.  I average around 6"30 at the moment.

[quote="Strymon"]
EDIT: Ya, forget all that stuff. Just tried it with your strat and got 8"50. Can't believe I never tried it before. 
[/quote]

It's the quickest strategy I've found, so far, but I have difficulty consistently hitting the tail. :P
Here's one instance where I didn't have any problems and took him in 8"43:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXCeqf6RqyU

[quote="Strymon"]
EDIT: Just tried out some stuff on Wong with Falcon, and you do need to throw in a treble shot in there. I found it easier though to hit his shield joint with a level-1, hit the head part with a level-1, and then finish with the treble instead of using the treble first. I just find the level-1 easier to hit with, but that's preference again :P Managed to get an 8"37
[/quote]

I actually got to thinking about that and worked out a strategy that allowed me to defeat him in only 5"23.  I started off with the L1 shot to the joint, then the L1 to the head, but instead of following with a treble shot, I dropped a bomb, and then added an L1 shot.  The toughest part of this, I found, was hitting with the first shot.  If I can hit the joint right off, the rest should be easy.

I recorded a video of a successful execution of this strategy.  Though, as you might notice, it took me quite a few attempts to pull it off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urIvOPClz5M

I was also a little slow with the final shot, so it may actually be possible to get the time just under 5 seconds.

[quote="Strymon"]
-On Groken, a little trick I use towards the end of the fight is to use a bomb when she lifts up after you've killed the two snake things (the spot you need to hit to finish her off). It's much easier and more reliable than timing a well-placed shot; just drop it anytime before she lifts up, and it'll get the job done. 
[/quote]

I'll have to try that.  It'll certainly cut down on my frustration with hitting that spot at times.

[quote="Strymon"]
-You have a very impressive time on Virvius 2 with Falcon, I don't think I've been anywhere close to that (probably somewhere in the mid-20's).
[/quote]

Using the Falcon, the trick is to use the V-System.  I never really had any use for it until then.  Using it will not only keep Virvius 2 still, but allow you to take out his four side pods with [i]three[/i] L1 shots.  After that, just treble shot the main body and follow with an L2 in the same place, then bye bye Virvius 2.  I'll do a strategy test video and post it up in the next day or so.

[quote="Strymon"]
While getting good times on each individual ST is easy, it's always harder to string them all together and get a good time.
[/quote]

Yeah, that's what's been giving me the most difficulty, so far, with attempting my single-segment run.  Siamang has been a lot of trouble so far due to the "hitting the tail" problem I mentioned above and if I were to try to execute my new Wong strategy every time, that would really be a lot of trouble at this point.  But I'm going to keep at it.  I'll also continue to upload individual videos to at least demonstrate what strategies I'm using.

Oh, and sorry for all the quoting.  There was a lot I wanted to respond to.  I've really gotten into the game more so than I'd ever been before, so it's nice to know there's someone who shares that interest.

Strymon

Edit history:

Strymon: 2010-07-05 04:55:13 pm

2010-07-05 01:24:31 am

Great time on Wong. Unfortunately for Tornado, using a bomb after hitting the middle piece in place of a slightly charged shot doesn't get any lower of a time Sad

However, I did figure out a slightly different strategy that allowed me to shave some milliseconds off my record by reducing the number of shots I need to kill him from 3 to 2. I'll explain a little more below.

I worked on some of the ST's I'm most inconsistent at (cough Viscount and Virvy 1 cough), and got some greatly improved times that I can get pretty consistently. Overall, I got a few new records on other ST's as well, so here are all my updated times:

Garam2: 6"18
Siamang: 8"50
Wong: 5"28 (slight improvement)
Griffin: 11"18 (new works-every-time strategy)
Viscount: 12"30 (see below)
Thanatos: 15"38 (Nearly a 10 second improvement)
Arachnus: 14"83
Cobra: 15"68 (slight improvement)
Groken: 27"91 (slight improvement)
Virvius 1: 16"60 (Again, nearly a 10 second improvement)
Virvius 2: 10"26 (slight; sub-10 is definitely possible :P)
Giga-desp 1: 20"01
Giga-desp 2: 11"38

NOTES:
-Overall: Something important I've noticed (and more often than not, been annoyed with) is that a good time is very dependent upon how the enemy begins to move at the start of a fight. Take Thanatos for example. On my best times, he moves off screen quickly, so I can't see him for a moment. This allows me to charge up my normal amount, and do my normal strategy successfully. But, once in a while, he doesn't move off screen quickly, sometimes staying on screen the whole time. This change induces him to begin attacking me sooner, which means I can't charge as long, and messes up my strategy quite a bit right from the get-go.

Unfortunately, it seems completely random, and many ST's do this (Viscount is another one who is particularly annoying). And I don't think there's anything to really do about it, except hope it doesn't happen during a run on the fights where it can affect a time greatly. Even if we were to come up with separate strategies in an attempt to predict and be ready for it, I don't think our times would be up to par with the times we get when the ST acts "normally." The good news? It seems enemies USUALLY follow normal movement speeds at the start of fights, having an abnormal move speed only about 1 out of every 5 or 6 attempts.

-Siamang: I have the same issue as you, sometimes having a hard time consistently hitting his tail. I mostly have trouble on the second shot, since if I miss, it's usually because I shoot too late, and he starts moving again before my shot connects. You really have to shoot the moment you've charged up enough.

-Wong: Changed strategies here a bit. Instead of 3 shots, I now charge up more for my first joint shot (5 bars, one bar after it changes to yellow). The increased damage from this means that when I go to shoot the middle piece, it ends up killing him. While it's only slightly quicker, it's easier, since there's less chance of error (and losing time in not firing shots the moment they're available) in only firing 2 shots instead of 3.

-Griffin: Completely revamped strategy. I was previously focusing on killing his horns, but I found that I can achieve that by using a bomb in conjunction with the bomb effect of Tornado's charged treble shot. The strat is a little something like this: start by charging. Once my charge bar turns to purple, drop a bomb (at the same time, he should charging an attack on his wing). Charge one more bar while the bomb is doing its work, and shoot him straight in the chest; the point is to make the bomb effect of the treble shot finish off both his horns as well as weakening his legs. This is very important. He'll begin spinning outta control a bit, which is when you charge a little more, up to four bars (first yellow). Shoot one of his legs when he comes out of his spin (you can shoot a bit early and predict where the leg will be). He'll spin again, immobile. Charge again to 3 bars and finish him off by shooting the other leg off.

-Viscount: My 12"30 time is a bit deceiving. I got this kind of unexpectedly during a full run of the game. I was doing my normal strategy, and my bomb hit earlier than I expected, and caused him to change what he did as well. I kind of improvised at this point, and ended up getting the new record time. Honestly, I think it was a lot of luck as I've haven't been able to repeat it exactly since then. Using my normal strategy, my best time is actually 12"71.

I'm not sure what your current strat is, but I tend to go straight for his legs instead of trying to kill his gun (as you mentioned you try to do in one of your previous posts). I'm not sure if killing his gun first changes his move pattern after you kill his legs, but I know that one of the most important aspects of the fight is the moment after you kill the second leg. If you just leave him be, he'll change directions quickly and jet off screen the other way; once you catch up to him, he'll do it a second time. This wastes a good 7 seconds or so. So, this is where I use my bomb, as hitting him with it while he's still on screen will cause him to only run away from you once, saving about 4 seconds overall and still allowing you time to charge while he's offscreen. During my fluky 12"30 time, my bomb caused him to not go offscreen at all (since it hit before he visibly changed directions), but he also didn't attack for a while afterward. While it's not hard to force him to not go offscreen at all after killing his legs, I'm not sure what caused him not to attack, which is why I can't replicate it.

-Thanatos: I really wanted to get a solid strategy down for this guy, since my previous one wasn't set in stone. Before, it was "kill his legs as fast as I can and just finish him after that," but it didn't always work well. Now though, I basically just shoot three straight trebles to the chest. I use a bomb at the start to absorb his first attack, so I can charge my first shot longer. But...that's about it. I've found that shooting the joints to his arms and legs (shoulder pieces or upper leg pieces) cause alot of damage to him, since killing one of those also kills the corresponding arm or leg; but I'm not sure if that would lead to a quicker time overall.

-Vivry 1: I hate this guy. Really. I hate his illusion thing. He's easily my worst fight, by far. Sure, I have a pretty good record on him, but it was pretty much an everything-going-perfect attempt. Like Thanatos, I more or less just pelt trebles into his chest. I still want to work on this guy alot though and get something consistent down. I hate him.

-Vivry 2: Interesting that you use the V-system on him. I don't think it's possible to get the V-system with Tornado in game unless I do badly on one of the previous fights. I know that when I usually run, I don't get anything but bombs. I'll look into it though.

-Giga-desp 1: Is there any easy way to blow up the spinning eyes around him? I generally use about 3 bombs to do it, but I feel like that's a bit...excessive Tongue

I'm lookin into seeing if I can start recording some of my fights as well, but I'm not sure yet. Though the video quality wouldn't be top notch, I may be able to pull something off with my digital camera, but I'll have to fool around with it and see if it's even worth it, and if I could even record a full run. I think I'd at least be able to record single attempts though to show strategies and such.

Good luck!
(whoa this was a long post :P)

Great time on Wong. Unfortunately for Tornado, using a bomb after hitting the middle piece in place of a slightly charged shot doesn't get any lower of a time :( However, I did figure out a slightly different strategy that allowed me to shave some milliseconds off my record by reducing the number of shots I need to kill him from 3 to 2. I'll explain a little more below.

I worked on some of the ST's I'm most inconsistent at (cough Viscount and Virvy 1 cough), and got some greatly improved times that I can get pretty consistently. Overall, I got a few new records on other ST's as well, so here are all my updated times:

Garam2: 6"18
Siamang: 8"50
Wong: 5"28 (slight improvement)
Griffin: 11"18 (new works-every-time strategy)
Viscount: 12"30 (see below)
Thanatos: 15"38 (Nearly a 10 second improvement)
Arachnus: 14"83
Cobra: 15"68 (slight improvement)
Groken: 27"91 (slight improvement)
Virvius 1: 16"60 (Again, nearly a 10 second improvement)
Virvius 2: 10"26 (slight; sub-10 is definitely possible :P)
Giga-desp 1: 20"01 
Giga-desp 2: 11"38

NOTES: 
-Overall: Something important I've noticed (and more often than not, been annoyed with) is that a good time is very dependent upon how the enemy begins to move at the start of a fight. Take Thanatos for example. On my best times, he moves off screen quickly, so I can't see him for a moment. This allows me to charge up my normal amount, and do my normal strategy successfully. But, once in a while, he doesn't move off screen quickly, sometimes staying on screen the whole time. This change induces him to begin attacking me sooner, which means I can't charge as long, and messes up my strategy quite a bit right from the get-go.

Unfortunately, it seems completely random, and many ST's do this (Viscount is another one who is particularly annoying). And I don't think there's anything to really do about it, except hope it doesn't happen during a run on the fights where it can affect a time greatly. Even if we were to come up with separate strategies in an attempt to predict and be ready for it, I don't think our times would be up to par with the times we get when the ST acts "normally." The good news? It seems enemies USUALLY follow normal movement speeds at the start of fights, having an abnormal move speed only about 1 out of every 5 or 6 attempts.

-Siamang: I have the same issue as you, sometimes having a hard time consistently hitting his tail. I mostly have trouble on the second shot, since if I miss, it's usually because I shoot too late, and he starts moving again before my shot connects. You really have to shoot the moment you've charged up enough.

-Wong: Changed strategies here a bit. Instead of 3 shots, I now charge up more for my first joint shot (5 bars, one bar after it changes to yellow). The increased damage from this means that when I go to shoot the middle piece, it ends up killing him. While it's only slightly quicker, it's easier, since there's less chance of error (and losing time in not firing shots the moment they're available) in only firing 2 shots instead of 3.

-Griffin: Completely revamped strategy. I was previously focusing on killing his horns, but I found that I can achieve that by using a bomb in conjunction with the bomb effect of Tornado's charged treble shot. The strat is a little something like this: start by charging. Once my charge bar turns to purple, drop a bomb (at the same time, he should charging an attack on his wing). Charge one more bar while the bomb is doing its work, and shoot him straight in the chest; the point is to make the bomb effect of the treble shot finish off both his horns as well as weakening his legs. This is very important. He'll begin spinning outta control a bit, which is when you charge a little more, up to four bars (first yellow). Shoot one of his legs when he comes out of his spin (you can shoot a bit early and predict where the leg will be). He'll spin again, immobile. Charge again to 3 bars and finish him off by shooting the other leg off.

-Viscount: My 12"30 time is a bit deceiving. I got this kind of unexpectedly during a full run of the game. I was doing my normal strategy, and my bomb hit earlier than I expected, and caused him to change what he did as well. I kind of improvised at this point, and ended up getting the new record time. Honestly, I think it was a lot of luck as I've haven't been able to repeat it exactly since then. Using my normal strategy, my best time is actually 12"71.

I'm not sure what your current strat is, but I tend to go straight for his legs instead of trying to kill his gun (as you mentioned you try to do in one of your previous posts). I'm not sure if killing his gun first changes his move pattern after you kill his legs, but I know that one of the most important aspects of the fight is the moment after you kill the second leg. If you just leave him be, he'll change directions quickly and jet off screen the other way; once you catch up to him, he'll do it a second time. This wastes a good 7 seconds or so. So, this is where I use my bomb, as hitting him with it while he's still on screen will cause him to only run away from you once, saving about 4 seconds overall and still allowing you time to charge while he's offscreen. During my fluky 12"30 time, my bomb caused him to not go offscreen at all (since it hit before he visibly changed directions), but he also didn't attack for a while afterward. While it's not hard to force him to not go offscreen at all after killing his legs, I'm not sure what caused him not to attack, which is why I can't replicate it.

-Thanatos: I really wanted to get a solid strategy down for this guy, since my previous one wasn't set in stone. Before, it was "kill his legs as fast as I can and just finish him after that," but it didn't always work well. Now though, I basically just shoot three straight trebles to the chest. I use a bomb at the start to absorb his first attack, so I can charge my first shot longer. But...that's about it. I've found that shooting the joints to his arms and legs (shoulder pieces or upper leg pieces) cause alot of damage to him, since killing one of those also kills the corresponding arm or leg; but I'm not sure if that would lead to a quicker time overall.

-Vivry 1: I hate this guy. Really. I hate his illusion thing. He's easily my worst fight, by far. Sure, I have a pretty good record on him, but it was pretty much an everything-going-perfect attempt. Like Thanatos, I more or less just pelt trebles into his chest. I still want to work on this guy alot though and get something consistent down. I hate him.

-Vivry 2: Interesting that you use the V-system on him. I don't think it's possible to get the V-system with Tornado in game unless I do badly on one of the previous fights. I know that when I usually run, I don't get anything but bombs. I'll look into it though.

-Giga-desp 1: Is there any easy way to blow up the spinning eyes around him? I generally use about 3 bombs to do it, but I feel like that's a bit...excessive :P

I'm lookin into seeing if I can start recording some of my fights as well, but I'm not sure yet. Though the video quality wouldn't be top notch, I may be able to pull something off with my digital camera, but I'll have to fool around with it and see if it's even worth it, and if I could even record a full run. I think I'd at least be able to record single attempts though to show strategies and such.

Good luck!
(whoa this was a long post :P)

ZakkyTheHybrid

Edit history:

ZakkyTheHybrid: 2010-07-05 11:34:41 pm

2010-07-05 10:10:12 pm

Goatragon!

Quote from Strymon:

-Wong: Changed strategies here a bit. Instead of 3 shots, I now charge up more for my first joint shot (5 bars, one bar after it changes to yellow). The increased damage from this means that when I go to shoot the middle piece, it ends up killing him. While it's only slightly quicker, it's easier, since there's less chance of error (and losing time in not firing shots the moment they're available) in only firing 2 shots instead of 3.

- I actually had worked on a few strategies with the Tornado a while ago and this is exactly what I'd come up with. The Tornado's power is quite wonderful at times like these, isn't it?

- As for your Griffin strategy with the Tornado, wonderful! My strategy with the Tornado was to L6 the the left horn, then L3 the right horn, bomb, and L6 the leg. I definitely prefer to follow your strategy, though, as it's so much easier than trying to shoot horns. Also, my guess is that even if my strategy is quicker, it can't be by enough to be worth the trouble.

- Viscount - While developing my strategy with the Falcon, I tried to start with taking out the gun. However, taking out the gun on a consistent basis turned out to be far more difficult than I had thought it would be. So I revised my strategy and came up with one that did not involve taking out the gun.

This is my Falcon strategy:
I start with a treble shot to his chest. This allows me to fire a bomb and actually hit him, as the treble shot freezes him. The bomb, in turn, allows me to charge an L2 shot to take out his left leg. Then I promptly L1 his right leg. I follow that with two treble shots to his chest and then take out one of the fins on his back with an L2 shot to finish him off.

I attempted to carry out my strategy in this video, but missed the last shot and took out his arm instead and had to fire one extra shot to finish him. I still took him out in 0'21"68, which is less than a second more than my personal best. Not bad considering.

EDIT: Upon further review of the video, I'm now not sure that even had I hit the fin on the first attempt that it would have finished him off, anyway. The bomb I fired off early on hit off-center, so I'm not sure it did as much damage as it could have.

Now, here's something really good. I found a strategy I'd devised for Viscount using the Tornado when looking through my incomplete Tornado strategy notes. It, unfortunately, depends on getting the right pattern, but if you get that pattern, you can take him out in around 10 seconds!

Charge your gauge to 4 bars. If you've gotten the right pattern, Viscount should have begun or has begun firing small shots at you. Fire a bomb. Since he's firing at you, he can't dodge and will take damage from it. Now let the gauge charge to 8. When Viscount goes to fire a charge shot from his gun at you, hit his chest with the shot. This will severely damage him (though I think that's understating it). Then let the gauge charge to 3 and fire at his chest to end the battle. My attempt here took 0'10"71.

Quote from Strymon:

-Vivry 1: I hate this guy. Really. I hate his illusion thing. He's easily my worst fight, by far. Sure, I have a pretty good record on him, but it was pretty much an everything-going-perfect attempt. Like Thanatos, I more or less just pelt trebles into his chest. I still want to work on this guy alot though and get something consistent down. I hate him.

This is my strategy with the Falcon: Treble shot right shoulder, bomb, Treble shot left shoulder, treble shot right shoulder, treble shot left shoulder, bomb, L1 shot chest

Oddly enough, I set a new personal best time recording this demonstration. My previous best was 0'19"20 and I defeated him in 0'18"40 here.

I even worked on adapting this strategy to the Tornado: L4 to right shoulder, L4 to left shoulder, L6 to right shoulder, bomb, L6 to left shoulder

Using this strategy, I was able to defeat Virvius 1 in 0'14"63.

I think this strategy may work fairly consistently, if not every time, as he seems to follow the same pattern pretty much each time. I've also noticed that when I execute it properly up to when he clones himself, the right clone has always been the real one. I'm not sure if that's always the case, but every time I've executed properly, the right clone has always been the real one.

Quote from Strymon:

-Giga-desp 1: Is there any easy way to blow up the spinning eyes around him? I generally use about 3 bombs to do it, but I feel like that's a bit...excessive Tongue

There is, actually. If you wait until all the eyes begin charging (they should glow orange) and fire the bomb right into the center of them, it should take them all out at once. I've also noticed that after the eyes are destroyed, he tends to open to charge his blast sooner if your charge gauge is empty.

I don't know if any of this will be helpful, but I thought it might be of interest.
Good luck!

[quote="Strymon"]
-Wong: Changed strategies here a bit. Instead of 3 shots, I now charge up more for my first joint shot (5 bars, one bar after it changes to yellow). The increased damage from this means that when I go to shoot the middle piece, it ends up killing him. While it's only slightly quicker, it's easier, since there's less chance of error (and losing time in not firing shots the moment they're available) in only firing 2 shots instead of 3. 
[/quote]

- I actually had worked on a few strategies with the Tornado a while ago and this is exactly what I'd come up with.  The Tornado's power is quite wonderful at times like these, isn't it?

- As for your Griffin strategy with the Tornado, wonderful!  My strategy with the Tornado was to L6 the the left horn, then L3 the right horn, bomb, and L6 the leg.  I definitely prefer to follow your strategy, though, as it's so much easier than trying to shoot horns.  Also, my guess is that even if my strategy is quicker, it can't be by enough to be worth the trouble.

- Viscount - While developing my strategy with the Falcon, I tried to start with taking out the gun.  However, taking out the gun on a consistent basis turned out to be far more difficult than I had thought it would be.  So I revised my strategy and came up with one that did not involve taking out the gun.

This is my Falcon strategy:
I start with a treble shot to his chest.  This allows me to fire a bomb and actually hit him, as the treble shot freezes him.  The bomb, in turn, allows me to charge an L2 shot to take out his left leg.  Then I promptly L1 his right leg.  I follow that with two treble shots to his chest and then take out one of the fins on his back with an L2 shot to finish him off.

I attempted to carry out my strategy in this video, but missed the last shot and took out his arm instead and had to fire one extra shot to finish him.  I still took him out in 0'21"68, which is less than a second more than my personal best.  Not bad considering.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtVFlv7MbwY

EDIT: Upon further review of the video, I'm now not sure that even had I hit the fin on the first attempt that it would have finished him off, anyway.  The bomb I fired off early on hit off-center, so I'm not sure it did as much damage as it could have.

Now, here's something really good.  I found a strategy I'd devised for Viscount using the Tornado when looking through my incomplete Tornado strategy notes.  It, unfortunately, depends on getting the right pattern, but if you get that pattern, you can take him out in around 10 seconds!

Charge your gauge to 4 bars.  If you've gotten the right pattern, Viscount should have begun or has begun firing small shots at you.  Fire a bomb.  Since he's firing at you, he can't dodge and will take damage from it.  Now let the gauge charge to 8.  When Viscount goes to fire a charge shot from his gun at you, hit his chest with the shot.  This will severely damage him (though I think that's understating it).  Then let the gauge charge to 3 and fire at his chest to end the battle.  My attempt here took 0'10"71.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1v0LdHnCK4

[quote="Strymon"]
-Vivry 1: I hate this guy. Really. I hate his illusion thing. He's easily my worst fight, by far. Sure, I have a pretty good record on him, but it was pretty much an everything-going-perfect attempt. Like Thanatos, I more or less just pelt trebles into his chest. I still want to work on this guy alot though and get something consistent down. I hate him. 
[/quote]

This is my strategy with the Falcon: Treble shot right shoulder, bomb, Treble shot left shoulder, treble shot right shoulder, treble shot left shoulder, bomb, L1 shot chest

Oddly enough, I set a new personal best time recording this demonstration.  My previous best was 0'19"20 and I defeated him in 0'18"40 here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpHbufIsjVA

I even worked on adapting this strategy to the Tornado: L4 to right shoulder, L4 to left shoulder, L6 to right shoulder, bomb, L6 to left shoulder

Using this strategy, I was able to defeat Virvius 1 in 0'14"63.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EEJLot3oU0

I think this strategy may work fairly consistently, if not every time, as he seems to follow the same pattern pretty much each time.  I've also noticed that when I execute it properly up to when he clones himself, the right clone has always been the real one.  I'm not sure if that's always the case, but every time I've executed properly, the right clone has always been the real one.

[quote="Strymon"]
-Giga-desp 1: Is there any easy way to blow up the spinning eyes around him? I generally use about 3 bombs to do it, but I feel like that's a bit...excessive :P 
[/quote]

There is, actually.  If you wait until all the eyes begin charging (they should glow orange) and fire the bomb right into the center of them, it should take them all out at once.  I've also noticed that after the eyes are destroyed, he tends to open to charge his blast sooner if your charge gauge is empty.

I don't know if any of this will be helpful, but I thought it might be of interest.
Good luck!

Strymon

2010-07-06 11:19:19 am

Quote:

Charge your gauge to 4 bars. If you've gotten the right pattern, Viscount should have begun or has begun firing small shots at you. Fire a bomb. Since he's firing at you, he can't dodge and will take damage from it. Now let the gauge charge to 8. When Viscount goes to fire a charge shot from his gun at you, hit his chest with the shot. This will severely damage him (though I think that's understating it). Then let the gauge charge to 3 and fire at his chest to end the battle. My attempt here took 0'10"71.

Great strategy! Way easier than mine of picking off the legs Tongue

You're right, it does depend a bit on his movement pattern.

The other pattern I'm assuming you're talking about (aka not the "right pattern") is when he doesn't start shooting right away? In that case, all you have to do is wait a bit longer to use the bomb, since he'll shoot small shots out of his gun eventually. When this happens, I find myself using the bomb when I'm charged to L6. Then, he'll shoot small shots out of his shield, which is when you hit him with the L8 shot on the little piece of his chest that's visible. Then finish with the L3 like normal.

On occasion as well, he'll sometimes give you time to charge to L6 before the bomb AND try to charge a shot out of his gun right after. In this case, you can charge up to L9 instead of L8, and hit him with that. The extra oomph from the shot will finish him right there (though it takes a little bit of the bomb effect to do so). Overall, my times average around 10"35, with a record of 10"26.

Quote:

I even worked on adapting this strategy to the Tornado: L4 to right shoulder, L4 to left shoulder, L6 to right shoulder, bomb, L6 to left shoulder

Using this strategy, I was able to defeat Virvius 1 in 0'14"63.

AMAZING! I had actually just worked out something different and was getting pretty consistent times in the mid-16's, but this is so much better! I'm actually just having the most trouble making that first shot, but if that hits, everything else falls into place nicely. 15"04 is my current record using that.

Quote:

There is, actually. If you wait until all the eyes begin charging (they should glow orange) and fire the bomb right into the center of them, it should take them all out at once. I've also noticed that after the eyes are destroyed, he tends to open to charge his blast sooner if your charge gauge is empty.

Thanks alot for that, helps so much more. Got a 14"56 using that method.

[quote]Charge your gauge to 4 bars.  If you've gotten the right pattern, Viscount should have begun or has begun firing small shots at you.  Fire a bomb.  Since he's firing at you, he can't dodge and will take damage from it.  Now let the gauge charge to 8.  When Viscount goes to fire a charge shot from his gun at you, hit his chest with the shot.  This will severely damage him (though I think that's understating it).  Then let the gauge charge to 3 and fire at his chest to end the battle.  My attempt here took 0'10"71.[/quote]

Great strategy! Way easier than mine of picking off the legs :P You're right, it does depend a bit on his movement pattern.

The other pattern I'm assuming you're talking about (aka not the "right pattern") is when he doesn't start shooting right away? In that case, all you have to do is wait a bit longer to use the bomb, since he'll shoot small shots out of his gun eventually. When this happens, I find myself using the bomb when I'm charged to L6. Then, he'll shoot small shots out of his shield, which is when you hit him with the L8 shot on the little piece of his chest that's visible. Then finish with the L3 like normal.

On occasion as well, he'll sometimes give you time to charge to L6 before the bomb AND try to charge a shot out of his gun right after. In this case, you can charge up to L9 instead of L8, and hit him with that. The extra oomph from the shot will finish him right there (though it takes a little bit of the bomb effect to do so). Overall, my times average around 10"35, with a record of 10"26.

[quote]
I even worked on adapting this strategy to the Tornado: L4 to right shoulder, L4 to left shoulder, L6 to right shoulder, bomb, L6 to left shoulder

Using this strategy, I was able to defeat Virvius 1 in 0'14"63.[/quote]

AMAZING! I had actually just worked out something different and was getting pretty consistent times in the mid-16's, but this is so much better! I'm actually just having the most trouble making that first shot, but if that hits, everything else falls into place nicely. 15"04 is my current record using that.

[quote]There is, actually.  If you wait until all the eyes begin charging (they should glow orange) and fire the bomb right into the center of them, it should take them all out at once.  I've also noticed that after the eyes are destroyed, he tends to open to charge his blast sooner if your charge gauge is empty.[/quote]

Thanks alot for that, helps so much more. Got a 14"56 using that method.

ZakkyTheHybrid

2010-07-06 06:42:36 pm

Goatragon!

Glad the strategies helped. If you come up with anything better or find any further adjustments that speed things up, please let me know.

I think that shot to Viscount, following the bomb, pretty much destroys every single part you could possible destroy on him and all in one shot! Given that he's one of the most annoying opponents, it's quite satisfying.

That aside, what strategies do you use against Arachnus and Cobra? I haven't looked much into strategies against them using the Tornado. Also, I'd like to assess whether or not there's a better strategy that I can use against them while using the Falcon and knowing a good strategy to use with the Tornado might help me develop a better one with the Falcon.

Oh, and I gave that tip you mentioned about using bomb against Groken after destroying the snakes a try. Genius! That weak spot must be pretty severe, though, for the bomb to take Groken out that fast.

Strymon

2010-07-07 09:42:03 am

I'm finally able to record videos! Yay!

I was able to figure something out with my digital camera so I can record my attempts now. However, it means the audio and video quality are somewhat...lacking Tongue

I apologize in advance for the poor quality, but it's all I've got, and it still shows the strategies and times just fine :).

Here's my first video, kinda a test video I did to see how the quality would turn out, and it turned out to be a good example of the Tornado Griffin strategy in action. I do it here in 0'11"33; my personal best is 0'11"18.

I also worked on Virvius 1 a bit more and came up with a new strategy! I wanted to work a bit more on one I had before you showed me yours, and it ended up working out very well! I actually was recording an attempt of it and ended up getting my personal best time on video. Here it is at a time of 0'11"80:

The most important part of this strategy are the first two of his shots. They'll either both miss you, one will hit and one will miss, or both will hit. Whatever happens, just take them. They'll decrease the charge a bit, but it's more important to continue saving. Perhaps by doing this in the scheme of the whole game you could use two bombs, one in the spot I show in the video, and another earlier to eat up some of his shots. But that may also change his move pattern, so I'm not sure how it'd work out. However, even when both hit, it only adds about 50-70 milliseconds to the total time.

Also, I'm not sure if I've just gotten very very lucky, but it seems whichever I decide to hit with the bomb ends up being the right one. It may be something to do with the bomb, or again, just pure luck. But, perhaps just to be safe, a bomb also works if you just toss it in the center of both clones.

My laptop is about to die, so I'll get back a little later to talk about Arachnus and Cobra.

I'm finally able to record videos! Yay!

I was able to figure something out with my digital camera so I can record my attempts now. However, it means the audio and video quality are somewhat...lacking :P I apologize in advance for the poor quality, but it's all I've got, and it still shows the strategies and times just fine :).

Here's my first video, kinda a test video I did to see how the quality would turn out, and it turned out to be a good example of the Tornado Griffin strategy in action. I do it here in 0'11"33; my personal best is 0'11"18.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XdZdZRaqDs

I also worked on Virvius 1 a bit more and came up with a new strategy! I wanted to work a bit more on one I had before you showed me yours, and it ended up working out very well! I actually was recording an attempt of it and ended up getting my personal best time on video. Here it is at a time of 0'11"80:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rwwhvoukZA

The most important part of this strategy are the first two of his shots. They'll either both miss you, one will hit and one will miss, or both will hit. Whatever happens, just take them. They'll decrease the charge a bit, but it's more important to continue saving. Perhaps by doing this in the scheme of the whole game you could use two bombs, one in the spot I show in the video, and another earlier to eat up some of his shots. But that may also change his move pattern, so I'm not sure how it'd work out. However, even when both hit, it only adds about 50-70 milliseconds to the total time.

Also, I'm not sure if I've just gotten very very lucky, but it seems whichever I decide to hit with the bomb ends up being the right one. It may be something to do with the bomb, or again, just pure luck. But, perhaps just to be safe, a bomb also works if you just toss it in the center of both clones.

My laptop is about to die, so I'll get back a little later to talk about Arachnus and Cobra.

ZakkyTheHybrid

2010-07-07 11:48:14 am

Goatragon!

Quote from Strymon:

I also worked on Virvius 1 a bit more and came up with a new strategy! I wanted to work a bit more on one I had before you showed me yours, and it ended up working out very well! I actually was recording an attempt of it and ended up getting my personal best time on video. Here it is at a time of 0'11"80:

Beautiful! I'll have to use that when I get to attempting a Tornado run. Ideally I'd like to complete a Falcon run first, since that's the first mode you have to play before you can use the Tornado, but if it gets to be too much of a pain, I might take a break and try running with the Tornado for a while.

Something I want to try is a segmented run with the Falcon using the method you mentioned. It would give me the chance to really optimize times on opponents. I'm still a bit concerned, however, about the need to purposely lose in order to retry an opponent due to the game keeping track of total time spent and also mentioning your retries on the ending screens as I still don't know for sure if that would disqualify a segmented run.

[quote="Strymon"]
I also worked on Virvius 1 a bit more and came up with a new strategy! I wanted to work a bit more on one I had before you showed me yours, and it ended up working out very well! I actually was recording an attempt of it and ended up getting my personal best time on video. Here it is at a time of 0'11"80: 
[/quote]

Beautiful!  I'll have to use that when I get to attempting a Tornado run.  Ideally I'd like to complete a Falcon run first, since that's the first mode you have to play before you can use the Tornado, but if it gets to be too much of a pain, I might take a break and try running with the Tornado for a while.

Something I want to try is a segmented run with the Falcon using the method you mentioned.  It would give me the chance to really optimize times on opponents.  I'm still a bit concerned, however, about the need to purposely lose in order to retry an opponent due to the game keeping track of total time spent and also mentioning your retries on the ending screens as I still don't know for sure if that would disqualify a segmented run.

mikwuyma

2010-07-07 02:30:06 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Quote from ZakkyDraggy:

Something I want to try is a segmented run with the Falcon using the method you mentioned. It would give me the chance to really optimize times on opponents. I'm still a bit concerned, however, about the need to purposely lose in order to retry an opponent due to the game keeping track of total time spent and also mentioning your retries on the ending screens as I still don't know for sure if that would disqualify a segmented run.

It wouldn't. I would just calculate your total time by adding up all of the fight times together.

ZakkyTheHybrid

2010-07-07 05:13:54 pm

Goatragon!

Quote from mikwuyma:

It wouldn't. I would just calculate your total time by adding up all of the fight times together.

I think I know what you mean, but I want to be safe and make sure I'm reading what you've said correctly. Are you saying then that it is okay and that only the time of the successful battles would count and not the additional accumulated time resulting from retrying the segments or are you saying that all time used would count?

It sounds like you mean the first, as the game would total up all used time on its own and it wouldn't be necessary to add fight times together. However, I'd rather make sure I'm clear on it rather than assume and be wrong.

ZakkyTheHybrid

2010-07-15 06:39:16 pm

Goatragon!

Quote from Strymon:

My laptop is about to die, so I'll get back a little later to talk about Arachnus and Cobra.

Also, what's your strategy with the Tornado for Virvius 2? If I remember correctly, you mentioned you have a best time of 10"50. I don't think I've ever come close to that, so I'm curious how you do it.

Currently trying to do a single-segment with the Falcon. My latest attempt ended at Viscount. The battle was already going pretty badly, but for some reason the game decided to pause me and I didn't even press pause! Has that ever happened to you?

It's too bad. I started off pretty well. Got Garam2 in 2 shots, which I feel is a must since he's first and if I mess up I usually get it the next time anyway.

It took 4 shots to finish off Siamang, because I missed his tail twice, but I'm deeming that acceptable for my ss run because trying to do Siamang perfectly each time would be very frustrating (and has been!). My time was still under 20 sec. and I figure on an ss I might get lucky and make it up on a later battle.

Missed the first shot on Wong, but hit with the next and pulled off the proper chain to finish him quickly in about 7 sec. I was a bit slow with the bomb, though. I sometimes get so focused on not firing too early on the second shot that I get slow firing the bomb. Tongue

I also noticed that I pretty much have to hit with the second shot, otherwise when I'm ready to fire the third, the joint will be behind a wall and my shot will miss.

Griffin went well. Since it's an ss, I play it safe and wait until he fires to strike at his horns and pull off the chain. I might have been slow on my first shot and the bomb, but I executed perfectly here.

Viscount...well, I'm expecting him to be difficult so as long as I don't make a huge mess of this battle, I'll likely let it be. This time, unfortunately, either game or Super Scope malfunction killed the run.

It took me a while to get over my perfectionist attitude. While it would be nice to pull everything off perfectly, it's not likely to happen. It's especially not likely to happen in an ss run. So having gotten that message through to myself, I'm having more fun with it and I think that'll be a key to having a good run.

I still get extremely nervous and tense when things start going well, so I've got to work on that, but I'm having fun again and that really helps.

Also recharging my batteries in case that caused my "pause" issues. While I'm now having fun attempting my run, it is not fun when something like a "pause" issue happens.

[quote="Strymon"]
My laptop is about to die, so I'll get back a little later to talk about Arachnus and Cobra. 
[/quote]

Also, what's your strategy with the Tornado for Virvius 2?  If I remember correctly, you mentioned you have a best time of 10"50.  I don't think I've ever come close to that, so I'm curious how you do it.

Currently trying to do a single-segment with the Falcon.  My latest attempt ended at Viscount.  The battle was already going pretty badly, but for some reason the game decided to pause me and I didn't even press pause!  Has that ever happened to you?

It's too bad.  I started off pretty well.  Got Garam2 in 2 shots, which I feel is a must since he's first and if I mess up I usually get it the next time anyway.

It took 4 shots to finish off Siamang, because I missed his tail twice, but I'm deeming that acceptable for my ss run because trying to do Siamang perfectly each time would be very frustrating (and has been!).  My time was still under 20 sec. and I figure on an ss I might get lucky and make it up on a later battle.

Missed the first shot on Wong, but hit with the next and pulled off the proper chain to finish him quickly in about 7 sec.  I was a bit slow with the bomb, though.  I sometimes get so focused on not firing too early on the second shot that I get slow firing the bomb. :P  
I also noticed that I pretty much [i]have[/i] to hit with the second shot, otherwise when I'm ready to fire the third, the joint will be behind a wall and my shot will miss.

Griffin went well.  Since it's an ss, I play it safe and wait until he fires to strike at his horns and pull off the chain.  I might have been slow on my first shot and the bomb, but I executed perfectly here.

Viscount...well, I'm expecting him to be difficult so as long as I don't make a huge mess of this battle, I'll likely let it be.  This time, unfortunately, either game or Super Scope malfunction killed the run.

It took me a while to get over my perfectionist attitude.  While it would be nice to pull everything off perfectly, it's not likely to happen.  It's especially not likely to happen in an ss run.  So having gotten that message through to myself, I'm having more fun with it and I think that'll be a key to having a good run.

I still get extremely nervous and tense when things start going well, so I've got to work on that, but I'm having fun again and that really helps.

Also recharging my batteries in case that caused my "pause" issues.  While I'm now having fun attempting my run, it is [i]not[/i] fun when something like a "pause" issue happens.

Strymon

2010-07-17 01:08:40 am

Heya,

Sorry I haven't replied in a while, been busy with a lot of other things lately, so I haven't been able to run much (or take videos Sad

).

To start off with Arachnus and Cobra:

-Arachnus I've actually been having a lot of trouble with lately. Previous to running this game seriously, I always just seemed to semi-improvise and get very good consistent times (usually under 18 seconds), but as of late, he's just seemed much more random than I remembered. This is probably due to me actually paying attention now to his exact move patterns. From what I've done, there are 3 move patterns that he can start out with, and each has a slightly different strategy (how much you can charge up is what mostly changes between them). However, my general strategy is to go for the two wing-like parts of him that extend from his back (the part that, if you blow it up, makes him do the bad spin attack). While there's some risk of killing his back in the process, hitting/killing these parts really injures him alot, and by the time you've gotten both, he's more or less dead. Usually a bomb that hits both, plus an L6+L4 each is enough for each. However, but the time you're at the L4 on the last one, he's so close to being dead that you can hit almost anywhere with it.

Something I've also been fooling around with is purposely killing his back half. By hitting it with a big shot (L6-L7 at least), you do a significant amount of damage. Also, this causes him to start doing his evil spin attack. However, if you hit him while he's doing this attack, it makes him flip over and fly offscreen for a moment. While he's flipped over, he has a very big weakpoint on his underside (though I don't think it's an instant kill unfortunately). With a well timed and placed shot, he'll be near death if you can pull it off; however, making this shot requires you to shoot it a moment before he even comes on screen, so it requires near-perfect prediction. From what I can tell though, times using this strat could be as low as 11-12 seconds if done correctly. But it may be too much for what it's worth.

-Cobra: After all that mess with Arachnus, Cobra's a nice breather Tongue

I've had a set strategy for a while, but I tried some other things out to see if anything was quicker or easier. My conclusion was that my original is still the easiest and quickest Tongue

It's very simple: bait him to start doing his little shield attack at the start of the fight (just spam L1's at him till he does). Then, once you've charged to L2 (he's still doing his shield stuff at this point), drop a bomb. It'll land in time to blow up his exposed shield, and give you lots of time to charge up a nice beefy shot. You should be able to get to a L8 shot while he's still completely still; shoot it directly at his weakpoint (that little thing towards the bottom of him...I know you know this, but I'd rather explain fully than have any confusion :P). Then begin charging again. He gives you another big window to charge up another big shot; a L7 is all that's needed to finish him off. You do, however, have to shoot it while he's still moving back and forth, but he's so big its really not hard to pull off. Aim it again at his weakpoint to finish the job. One sidenote, if he's moving to the right, his gun will look like its blocking his weakpoint when you're aiming the L7 shot. Don't worry about this. Still aim in the general area, and it'll finish him off all the same.

Virvius 2: My current record on this is 10"21 (I still think 9"xx is possible :P) The strategy is surprisingly easy. At the start, charge up to an L4 shot (first yellow). Drop a bomb IN THE CENTER - the purpose of this is to eat up the weak green shots he shoots at you AND damage the junctions to the bottom two mouths - very important! Continue charging up. You should be able to get to an L9 shot before you have to fire (you'll most likely have to fire this at pretty much the last possible moment before an attack of his hits you). Shoot it directly at his center mouth (it won't be open). The shot's damage and the bomb effect should finish him off after a second or so (the bomb effect will kill off some of the surrounding mouths as well, which is what ends up killing him). More or less a pretty easy concept, but it doesn't work 100% of the time unfortunately.

One thing of note that I was thinking about earlier as well:
In normal single-segment Tornado runs, you don't receive any items other than normal bombs, since you have to do poorly on a fight to get one (unlike Falcon runs where you automatically get a V-system after Griffin). However, if you were to do a segmented run, the items you receive might change, since you would be taking more time to do a fight because of your on-purpose losses. You may end up getting a V-system or something else at some point because of this, which may make a boss like Virvius 2 (or someone else) easier as a result; however, it may not be "legal" to use it, since you really shouldn't have gotten it in the first place. Just something to maybe ask an admin about.

As to your pause issue, I've never experienced that! It seems like a very strange thing to happen...is your super scope really old and beat up? I know I had a very well-used one a while ago that wouldn't register me hitting the fire button sometimes, so I ended up getting a like-new one on eBay for pretty cheap that I've had no problems with (and taken good care of :P). I'm not really sure what else would cause that, maybe it was just a fluke thing.

I agree on Garam2: I think it's necessary to get a 2-shot kill at around 6 seconds, since it's so easy to just reset and try again real quick. Siamang is another story...in a single segment run, missing once seems acceptable, but a segmented run, getting it right seems necessary. In fact, I think in a segmented run, everything should go more or less perfectly Tongue

Viscount I don't really have many problems with since I've been using your strategy, but that's also with Tornado, and the Falcon strat is probably more difficult Tongue

I feel like many of my failures will come at Arachnus, but if I can get past that it's pretty smooth sailing right up till the end.

As to the psychology side of things...I have some problems of my own as well Tongue

I tend to tense up sometimes before the battle starts, when the countdown is happening. I find if I spend time actually thinking over the strategy beforehand, I tend to tense up more, and sometimes the battle starts and I end up just blankly staring at the screen because I've forgotten what I need to do Tongue

Of course, if I'm trying new things, I'll think them over between attempts; but if I know I've got a set strategy that works, I find that thinking about it specifically actually is worse than if I just kinda...do it. Hard to explain, but I try not to dwell on it too much Tongue

Heya,

Sorry I haven't replied in a while, been busy with a lot of other things lately, so I haven't been able to run much (or take videos :( ).

To start off with Arachnus and Cobra:

-Arachnus I've actually been having a lot of trouble with lately. Previous to running this game seriously, I always just seemed to semi-improvise and get very good consistent times (usually under 18 seconds), but as of late, he's just seemed much more random than I remembered. This is probably due to me actually paying attention now to his exact move patterns. From what I've done, there are 3 move patterns that he can start out with, and each has a slightly different strategy (how much you can charge up is what mostly changes between them). However, my general strategy is to go for the two wing-like parts of him that extend from his back (the part that, if you blow it up, makes him do the bad spin attack). While there's some risk of killing his back in the process, hitting/killing these parts really injures him alot, and by the time you've gotten both, he's more or less dead. Usually a bomb that hits both, plus an L6+L4 each is enough for each. However, but the time you're at the L4 on the last one, he's so close to being dead that you can hit almost anywhere with it.

Something I've also been fooling around with is purposely killing his back half. By hitting it with a big shot (L6-L7 at least), you do a significant amount of damage. Also, this causes him to start doing his evil spin attack. However, if you hit him while he's doing this attack, it makes him flip over and fly offscreen for a moment. While he's flipped over, he has a very big weakpoint on his underside (though I don't think it's an instant kill unfortunately). With a well timed and placed shot, he'll be near death if you can pull it off; however, making this shot requires you to shoot it a moment before he even comes on screen, so it requires near-perfect prediction. From what I can tell though, times using this strat could be as low as 11-12 seconds if done correctly. But it may be too much for what it's worth.

-Cobra: After all that mess with Arachnus, Cobra's a nice breather :P I've had a set strategy for a while, but I tried some other things out to see if anything was quicker or easier. My conclusion was that my original is still the easiest and quickest :P It's very simple: bait him to start doing his little shield attack at the start of the fight (just spam L1's at him till he does). Then, once you've charged to L2 (he's still doing his shield stuff at this point), drop a bomb. It'll land in time to blow up his exposed shield, and give you lots of time to charge up a nice beefy shot. You should be able to get to a L8 shot while he's still completely still; shoot it directly at his weakpoint (that little thing towards the bottom of him...I know you know this, but I'd rather explain fully than have any confusion :P). Then begin charging again. He gives you another big window to charge up another big shot; a L7 is all that's needed to finish him off. You do, however, have to shoot it while he's still moving back and forth, but he's so big its really not hard to pull off. Aim it again at his weakpoint to finish the job. One sidenote, if he's moving to the right, his gun will look like its blocking his weakpoint when you're aiming the L7 shot. Don't worry about this. Still aim in the general area, and it'll finish him off all the same.

Virvius 2: My current record on this is 10"21 (I still think 9"xx is possible :P) The strategy is surprisingly easy. At the start, charge up to an L4 shot (first yellow). Drop a bomb IN THE CENTER - the purpose of this is to eat up the weak green shots he shoots at you AND damage the junctions to the bottom two mouths - very important! Continue charging up. You should be able to get to an L9 shot before you have to fire (you'll most likely have to fire this at pretty much the last possible moment before an attack of his hits you). Shoot it directly at his center mouth (it won't be open). The shot's damage and the bomb effect should finish him off after a second or so (the bomb effect will kill off some of the surrounding mouths as well, which is what ends up killing him). More or less a pretty easy concept, but it doesn't work 100% of the time unfortunately.

One thing of note that I was thinking about earlier as well:
In normal single-segment Tornado runs, you don't receive any items other than normal bombs, since you have to do poorly on a fight to get one (unlike Falcon runs where you automatically get a V-system after Griffin). However, if you were to do a segmented run, the items you receive might change, since you would be taking more time to do a fight because of your on-purpose losses. You may end up getting a V-system or something else at some point because of this, which may make a boss like Virvius 2 (or someone else) easier as a result; however, it may not be "legal" to use it, since you really shouldn't have gotten it in the first place. Just something to maybe ask an admin about.

As to your pause issue, I've never experienced that! It seems like a very strange thing to happen...is your super scope really old and beat up? I know I had a very well-used one a while ago that wouldn't register me hitting the fire button sometimes, so I ended up getting a like-new one on eBay for pretty cheap that I've had no problems with (and taken good care of :P). I'm not really sure what else would cause that, maybe it was just a fluke thing.

I agree on Garam2: I think it's necessary to get a 2-shot kill at around 6 seconds, since it's so easy to just reset and try again real quick. Siamang is another story...in a single segment run, missing once seems acceptable, but a segmented run, getting it right seems necessary. In fact, I think in a segmented run, everything should go more or less perfectly :P Viscount I don't really have many problems with since I've been using your strategy, but that's also with Tornado, and the Falcon strat is probably more difficult :P I feel like many of my failures will come at Arachnus, but if I can get past that it's pretty smooth sailing right up till the end.

As to the psychology side of things...I have some problems of my own as well :P I tend to tense up sometimes before the battle starts, when the countdown is happening. I find if I spend time actually thinking over the strategy beforehand, I tend to tense up more, and sometimes the battle starts and I end up just blankly staring at the screen because I've forgotten what I need to do :P Of course, if I'm trying new things, I'll think them over between attempts; but if I know I've got a set strategy that works, I find that thinking about it specifically actually is worse than if I just kinda...do it. Hard to explain, but I try not to dwell on it too much :P

ZakkyTheHybrid

2010-07-17 01:25:13 pm

Goatragon!

Thanks. That's going to help out a lot when I get to a run with the Tornado and it may help me figure out a better strategy with the Falcon.

As for the items, yeah, I was wondering that, too. To be honest, outside of the V-System, Shield, and maybe the Disruptor Bomb, I'm not sure if using any items would actually help save time or be useful anyway. I hadn't really been planning on using any of them anyway for the reason that you said; that I shouldn't have any of those items to begin with.

Something I've started wondering is whether your next opponent's pattern also depends on how you did on the previous battle. On the few attempts I made for a segmented run, Wong kept going offscreen and did so with each of my retries. However, up until that point, he'd never actually gone offscreen in any of my attempts. Then when I went back to attempting a single-segment run, he stayed on screen. Not sure that's really important, but I did find it a bit curious.

mikwuyma

2010-07-20 10:51:45 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Sorry, I forgot to check this topic after I posted in it.

Quote from ZakkyDraggy:

I think I know what you mean, but I want to be safe and make sure I'm reading what you've said correctly. Are you saying then that it is okay and that only the time of the successful battles would count and not the additional accumulated time resulting from retrying the segments or are you saying that all time used would count?

It sounds like you mean the first, as the game would total up all used time on its own and it wouldn't be necessary to add fight times together. However, I'd rather make sure I'm clear on it rather than assume and be wrong.

Yes, the first one. If retries counted in segmented runs, I think every segmented run on the site would be 5-100x longer. Tongue