Majora's Mask General Discussion

2009-06-11 10:32:04 pm

Quote from Slowking:

SoulCalibrII, you could also ISS through the woods of mistery. I know it's hard, but a normal ISS should be doable with practise.
Also I still can't believe that the route through great bay at the beginning doesn't save you a huge chunk of time. Since you activate three owls on the way you can always return to later. Maybe you weren't in shape or something?

Btw. why are you so bent on getting to the curio shop at 6pm? Just because it's the best time you can get or is there something else behind it?

Remember Slowking, I'm doing a game time speedrun.
ISS through the woods would be hard, but unnecessary if I have the goron mask at that point. And the route through the Bay is the exact same amount of game time. I have to go activate those owl statues anyway, so whether I do it early or late is not an issue at all. It is not an issue of me being "in shape."

The reason I am so bent on getting to the curio shop at 6pm is because that is when we are able to start multiplying bottles. If we have Woodfall, Snowhead, and Stone Tower completed, that only leaves Zora Egg collection and Great Bay left. Since it takes too much game time to collect the eggs, it is obvious to start collecting eggs when we have max bottles, and we can only have bottles if we multiply them at the shop. In actuality, if we were able to come up with a route that was really simple and fast, ANYONE could set the game time record. Even if I were to get to the curio shop at 5:20 and someone else got there at 5:59, I would have to wait until 6 anyway to get in. The only segments that would matter at that point would be the Egg collection and Great Bay.

And Petrie, I doubt the Wrong Warp from the Palace to Lens of Truth would work, at least for my route. I fairy wrong warp from clocktown to woodfall (approx 10 chus) then I hover over to the owl platform in woodfall (another 8 chus) and the other 2 chus I use to hover to get to the Sonata of Awakening.

[quote="Slowking"]

SoulCalibrII, you could also ISS through the woods of mistery. I know it's hard, but a normal ISS should be doable with practise.
Also I still can't believe that the route through great bay at the beginning doesn't save you a huge chunk of time. Since you activate three owls on the way you can always return to later. Maybe you weren't in shape or something?

Btw. why are you so bent on getting to the curio shop at 6pm? Just because it's the best time you can get or is there something else behind it?
[/quote]

Remember Slowking, I'm doing a game time speedrun.
ISS through the woods would be hard, but unnecessary if I have the goron mask at that point. And the route through the Bay is the exact same amount of game time. I have to go activate those owl statues anyway, so whether I do it early or late is not an issue at all. It is not an issue of me being "in shape."

The reason I am so bent on getting to the curio shop at 6pm is because that is when we are able to start multiplying bottles. If we have Woodfall, Snowhead, and Stone Tower completed, that only leaves Zora Egg collection and Great Bay left. Since it takes too much game time to collect the eggs, it is obvious to start collecting eggs when we have max bottles, and we can only have bottles if we multiply them at the shop. In actuality, if we were able to come up with a route that was really simple and fast, ANYONE could set the game time record. Even if I were to get to the curio shop at 5:20 and someone else got there at 5:59, I would have to wait until 6 anyway to get in. The only segments that would matter at that point would be the Egg collection and Great Bay.

And Petrie, I doubt the Wrong Warp from the Palace to Lens of Truth would work, at least for my route. I fairy wrong warp from clocktown to woodfall (approx 10 chus) then I hover over to the owl platform in woodfall (another 8 chus) and the other 2 chus I use to hover to get to the Sonata of Awakening.

Pokey

2009-06-15 02:44:10 am

Speedrunner

Wouldn't that be TAS only Petrie because that many mega hovers is like almost impossible?

MrGrunz

2009-06-15 07:01:14 am

Merry Chrismas =)

I only used mega hovering to reduce the number of explosives. you can do this trick easily without the mega hover, but it would be a long ass hover to the cave.

I would rather use a normal pit for a wrong warp to the lens of truth Wink

SoulCalibrII

2009-06-15 08:58:11 am

Quote from MrGrunz:

I would rather use a normal pit for a wrong warp to the lens of truth Wink

Which grotto would be best? I saw one of your videos where you used one in Termina Field next to the swamp area, but because that ceiling is angled, sometimes bombchu hover doesn't work since the bombchus want to crawl on the walls instead of explode. We could use regular bombs to climb, but then it wouldn't be worth the effort. Any advice for hovering in that specific grotto? or is there another grotto to use? (I know about the deku palace one; it isn't worth using in a GameTime run.)

MrGrunz

2009-06-15 12:28:50 pm

Merry Chrismas =)

for lens all you can use is the peahat, magic or normal grotto.

the peahat WW works the same way as the old version of the normal grotto WW.

you can either use my way or petrie's old way to WW with the normal grotto:

it is best to use my way combined with 3-4 bomb hovers, when hovering towards the wall and a mega sidehop in the end

SoulCalibrII

2009-06-15 01:33:44 pm

Quote from MrGrunz:

for lens all you can use is the peahat, magic or normal grotto.
the peahat WW works the same way as the old version of the normal grotto WW.

The peahat pit has a "ceiling" on it so no wrong warp can be used for it. What is the magic grotto? And if you wrong warp with many of the grottos in Termina Field, they just take you back up the one you entered instead of another one.

MrGrunz

2009-06-15 02:28:45 pm

Merry Chrismas =)

just something to know about grotto wrong warp:
you cannot wrong warp to grottos in terminia field. so all have something like, let's say, the same code, so you cannot wrong waro TO ANY terminia grotto, but you can wrong warp from terminia grotto to others.

here's map created by petrie:
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x90/petrie911/GrottoMap1-2.png

you can only wrong warp to the deku palace grottos and the lens of truth cave. the hot spring counts as a terminia grotto

the magic grotto is the magic bean grotto in the deku palace. I discovered, how to get out of bounts there a few weeks back, that's why it isn't marked in petrie's map Wink

Pokey

Edit history:

Pokey: 2009-06-15 11:29:46 pm

2009-06-15 05:18:11 pm

Speedrunner

I think this is an old glitch but I couldn't find a video so I'm just gonna ask:

In the bomb shop I can buy 20 bombs and 20 chus for 130 rupees which saves 10 rupees.

It seems like it would be the first glitch ever found on MM but I couldn't find a vid.

EDIT: Here is my vid:

SoulCalibrII

2009-06-19 09:45:30 pm

Here is my new GameTime Route:

http://www.2shared.com/file/6379369/2c444a52/MMGameTimeRoute.html
Click the link at the bottom that says "Save File to your PC"

With this new route, I was able to arrive at Great Bay with 7 bottles at 6:08pm...only 8 minutes shy of perfect. Read and comment on if there is a better way to do some things.

petrie911

Edit history:

petrie911: 2009-06-20 04:58:42 pm

2009-06-20 04:50:07 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

OK, here are my thoughts on the route.

--You shouldn't need a chu to get onto the flower platform in the Deku Palace, provided it's close enough to the fence when you reach it. It usually is.

--The option of wrong warping to LoT cave shouldn't be ignored. It will cost a trip to WCT, though. This might need to be timed, unless you already know it to be slower.

--Is warping back to the owl faster than just leaving the bomb shop, considering we're exiting through WCT anyways?

--We should consider talking to the baby goron during our first trip to the goron village. However, this would only be viable if we don't use WW to LoT cave. Then again, without extended superslides, we'd probably lose a siginificant amount of time over the goron mask.

--The boss key skip lets us do Woodfall in one go. While it will cost more chus, reentering Woodfall does take time. Further, I'm not exactly sure how we use 20 chus between seg 14 and seg 19, so perhaps it won't cost more chus. The after-cutscene, of course, costs us no time, so there's no need to worry about it.

--Stone Tower can be done in 1 segment, and it is faster to do so. It is also significantly more difficult, but, well, it is a possible timesaver.

--Multiplying bottles requires something to be in them, IIRC. You don't seem to include when we do that, as the bottle we have is empty after we melt the Goron Elder. Probably best is to snag a fairy from a pot near an owl statue. Nevermind, forgot about the egg we still have. And also didn't realize you could sell them, as he usually doesn't take event items.

--Segment 27 should not include buying a Deku Stick. The timing ends as soon as you save in CT after beating Gyorg. The Majora fight does not count, and thus need not be done quickly. The Kokiri Sword will suffice.

OK, here are my thoughts on the route.

--You shouldn't need a chu to get onto the flower platform in the Deku Palace, provided it's close enough to the fence when you reach it.  It usually is.

--The option of wrong warping to LoT cave shouldn't be ignored.  It will cost a trip to WCT, though.  This might need to be timed, unless you already know it to be slower.

--Is warping back to the owl faster than just leaving the bomb shop, considering we're exiting through WCT anyways?

--We should consider talking to the baby goron during our first trip to the goron village.  However, this would only be viable if we don't use WW to LoT cave.  Then again, without extended superslides, we'd probably lose a siginificant amount of time over the goron mask.

--The boss key skip lets us do Woodfall in one go.  While it will cost more chus, reentering Woodfall does take time.  Further, I'm not exactly sure how we use 20 chus between seg 14 and seg 19, so perhaps it won't cost more chus.  The after-cutscene, of course, costs us no time, so there's no need to worry about it.

--Stone Tower can be done in 1 segment, and it is faster to do so.  It is also significantly more difficult, but, well, it is a possible timesaver.

--[s]Multiplying bottles requires something to be in them, IIRC.  You don't seem to include when we do that, as the bottle we have is empty after we melt the Goron Elder.  Probably best is to snag a fairy from a pot near an owl statue.[/s] Nevermind, forgot about the egg we still have.  And also didn't realize you could sell them, as he usually doesn't take event items.

--Segment 27 should not include buying a Deku Stick.  The timing ends as soon as you save in CT after beating Gyorg.  The Majora fight does not count, and thus need not be done quickly.  The Kokiri Sword will suffice.

SoulCalibrII

2009-06-20 05:57:53 pm

Quote from petrie911:

--The option of wrong warping to LoT cave shouldn't be ignored. It will cost a trip to WCT, though. This might need to be timed, unless you already know it to be slower.

WW to LoT I am fairly certain is slower. The time it takes us to climb up to Mountain Village should be about the same as WW, plus if we wrong warp, we would have to travel across the frozen lake either way.

Quote:

--Is warping back to the owl faster than just leaving the bomb shop, considering we're exiting through WCT anyways?

It makes the segment easier. That is why I split it up. And we have the Goron mask, so the time to travel either method should be near the same.

Quote:

--The boss key skip lets us do Woodfall in one go. While it will cost more chus, reentering Woodfall does take time. Further, I'm not exactly sure how we use 20 chus between seg 14 and seg 19, so perhaps it won't cost more chus. The after-cutscene, of course, costs us no time, so there's no need to worry about it.

This perplexes me; somehow when I speedrun Woodfall Temple it is faster to split it up in 2 segs despite the fact that you have to re-enter. I don't know why. The only thing different is that I have fire arrows the 2nd time around. With boss key skip though it might be faster. I'll test it, but we still have to get the Bow.

Quote:

--Stone Tower can be done in 1 segment, and it is faster to do so. It is also significantly more difficult, but, well, it is a possible timesaver.

I actually think that splitting Stone Tower into 2 segments is about the same "Game Time" as 1 segment. If I did it in 1 segment, I would have to use bombs to hover (which takes a lot of game time) but by splitting Stone Tower into 2 segments that eliminates the time waiting for regular bombs to explode (since ONLY chus are used). The only time actually "lost" is me hovering back onto the entrance platform so I can invert the Tower. I think that only takes about 10 game minutes plus the 4-5 to collect more chus.

Quote:

--Segment 27 should not include buying a Deku Stick. The timing ends as soon as you save in CT after beating Gyorg. The Majora fight does not count, and thus need not be done quickly. The Kokiri Sword will suffice.

I'm going for the Real Time run as well, so I will record the first 3 days and the Majora fight too. I'll waste 10-15 game minutes for this. No biggie.

I'll test the Woodfall Boss Key skip to see if it is worth doing. I am certain I have enough chus. And pete, I saw your Great Bay Boss key skip. Is that doable non TAS?

[quote="petrie911"]
--The option of wrong warping to LoT cave shouldn't be ignored.  It will cost a trip to WCT, though.  This might need to be timed, unless you already know it to be slower. [/quote]
WW to LoT I am fairly certain is slower. The time it takes us to climb up to Mountain Village should be about the same as WW, plus if we wrong warp, we would have to travel across the frozen lake either way.

[quote]--Is warping back to the owl faster than just leaving the bomb shop, considering we're exiting through WCT anyways? [/quote]
It makes the segment easier. That is why I split it up. And we have the Goron mask, so the time to travel either method should be near the same.

[quote]--The boss key skip lets us do Woodfall in one go.  While it will cost more chus, reentering Woodfall does take time.  Further, I'm not exactly sure how we use 20 chus between seg 14 and seg 19, so perhaps it won't cost more chus.  The after-cutscene, of course, costs us no time, so there's no need to worry about it. [/quote]
This perplexes me; somehow when I speedrun Woodfall Temple it is faster to split it up in 2 segs despite the fact that you have to re-enter. I don't know why. The only thing different is that I have fire arrows the 2nd time around. With boss key skip though it might be faster. I'll test it, but we still have to get the Bow.

[quote] --Stone Tower can be done in 1 segment, and it is faster to do so.  It is also significantly more difficult, but, well, it is a possible timesaver. [/quote]
I actually think that splitting Stone Tower into 2 segments is about the same "Game Time" as 1 segment. If I did it in 1 segment, I would have to use bombs to hover (which takes a lot of game time) but by splitting Stone Tower into 2 segments that eliminates the time waiting for regular bombs to explode (since ONLY chus are used). The only time actually "lost" is me hovering back onto the entrance platform so I can invert the Tower. I think that only takes about 10 game minutes plus the 4-5 to collect more chus.

[quote] --Segment 27 should not include buying a Deku Stick.  The timing ends as soon as you save in CT after beating Gyorg.  The Majora fight does not count, and thus need not be done quickly.  The Kokiri Sword will suffice. [/quote]
I'm going for the Real Time run as well, so I will record the first 3 days and the Majora fight too. I'll waste 10-15 game minutes for this. No biggie.

I'll test the Woodfall Boss Key skip to see if it is worth doing. I am certain I have enough chus. And pete, I saw your Great Bay Boss key skip. Is that doable non TAS?

petrie911

2009-06-20 06:40:19 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Quote from SoulCalibrII:

Quote:

--Stone Tower can be done in 1 segment, and it is faster to do so. It is also significantly more difficult, but, well, it is a possible timesaver.

I actually think that splitting Stone Tower into 2 segments is about the same "Game Time" as 1 segment. If I did it in 1 segment, I would have to use bombs to hover (which takes a lot of game time) but by splitting Stone Tower into 2 segments that eliminates the time waiting for regular bombs to explode (since ONLY chus are used). The only time actually "lost" is me hovering back onto the entrance platform so I can invert the Tower. I think that only takes about 10 game minutes plus the 4-5 to collect more chus.

You do lose time, as you shouldn't have to use bombs to hover at all. Shooting the emblem can be done with 1 bomb, as can getting to the eyegore bridge room in ISTT. Other than that, it's 8 to cross and 6 for each block, totalling to exactly 20 chus. It'd be hard, but you still save time.

Quote:

--Segment 27 should not include buying a Deku Stick. The timing ends as soon as you save in CT after beating Gyorg. The Majora fight does not count, and thus need not be done quickly. The Kokiri Sword will suffice.

I'm going for the Real Time run as well, so I will record the first 3 days and the Majora fight too. I'll waste 10-15 game minutes for this. No biggie.

Really, don't do this. I might reject your run on that grounds alone. To be perfectly honest, the time saved from having a Deku stick is not going to make the difference between you beating pyh's run or not. Also, a good game time run is a poor real time run. Focus on what the run actually is.

Quote:

I'll test the Woodfall Boss Key skip to see if it is worth doing. I am certain I have enough chus. And pete, I saw your Great Bay Boss key skip. Is that doable non TAS?

Should be. It might be a bit difficult, but it's also its own segment.

[quote="SoulCalibrII"]
[quote] --Stone Tower can be done in 1 segment, and it is faster to do so.  It is also significantly more difficult, but, well, it is a possible timesaver. [/quote]
I actually think that splitting Stone Tower into 2 segments is about the same "Game Time" as 1 segment. If I did it in 1 segment, I would have to use bombs to hover (which takes a lot of game time) but by splitting Stone Tower into 2 segments that eliminates the time waiting for regular bombs to explode (since ONLY chus are used). The only time actually "lost" is me hovering back onto the entrance platform so I can invert the Tower. I think that only takes about 10 game minutes plus the 4-5 to collect more chus.[/quote]

You do lose time, as you shouldn't have to use bombs to hover at all.  Shooting the emblem can be done with 1 bomb, as can getting to the eyegore bridge room in ISTT.  Other than that, it's 8 to cross and 6 for each block, totalling to exactly 20 chus.  It'd be hard, but you still save time.

[quote][quote] --Segment 27 should not include buying a Deku Stick.  The timing ends as soon as you save in CT after beating Gyorg.  The Majora fight does not count, and thus need not be done quickly.  The Kokiri Sword will suffice. [/quote]
I'm going for the Real Time run as well, so I will record the first 3 days and the Majora fight too. I'll waste 10-15 game minutes for this. No biggie.[/quote]

Really, don't do this.  I might reject your run on that grounds alone.  To be perfectly honest, the time saved from having a Deku stick is not going to make the difference between you beating pyh's run or not.  Also, a good game time run is a poor real time run.  Focus on what the run actually is.

[quote]I'll test the Woodfall Boss Key skip to see if it is worth doing. I am certain I have enough chus. And pete, I saw your Great Bay Boss key skip. Is that doable non TAS?
[/quote]

Should be.  It might be a bit difficult, but it's also its own segment.

MrGrunz

2009-06-21 10:11:03 am

Merry Chrismas =)

First off, all those boss key skips are MRGRUNZ'S Boss Key Skips Angry

great bay temple TAS with the newest MRGRUNZ boss key skip:

the woodfall and great bay temple BK skips are really easy, great bay is even useable in a SS run, but stone tower and especially snowhead are fucking impossible. snowhead is this one, if you wonder, soulcal:

And soulcal, through the idea of doing this as a real time TAS. a real time TAS can be so much quicker with another route and wasting game time because of that is lame.

petrie woke my interested for a game time TAS yesterday. I know, that I should actually write this down at the tasvideos forum, but the game time masters are here.

so here's my first route idea (mega flips reduces the number of explosives a lot)

Second Cycle
- Learn SoH, activate Owl Statue, Withdraw 200R, buy bombchus and bombs (70R) (20B) (20C)
- go to NCT
- WW to Woodfall (16B) (12C)
- Fly to Owl Statue, get 2x deku sticks and deku nuts from pot and deku guys
- back track to Swamp with bomb boosted deku jumping, learn SoS, To Deku Palace, ISG-HISS past guards, Pull out Bomb while Sliding, Hover up to Deku Flower, Fly to ledge, 1 Bomb Hover, learn SoA (12B) (12C)
- Warp to CT, leave to NCT, HISS to Ice Block, Recoil Flip with ice damage through it
- HISS, Pull out Bomb while Sliding, Blow up Snowballs, SS to Owl Statue, Bombchu HISS to next area (8B) (11C)
- HISS through bridge area, HISS to Ice platforms, get Lens of Truth (6B) (11C)
- Warp to Mountain Village, Climb wall, get Goron Mask, Warp to CT, Leave to WCT, Damage Boostin past fence, Swim to Owl Statue, Get Zora Mask, Roll to other Bay Area, Flying Zora to Fountain, Blow up Rick with chu, WW to Ikana (1B) (1C)
- Roll to Owl Statue, Recoil Flip with Bombchu down to river, swim to Swamp, Roll through Lost Woods, get bottle (1B) (0C)
- Warp to CT, Withdraw 130 rupees, buy 20 Chus and Bombs, Warp to Bay, To Pirate's Fortress, Swim as quick as possible to boat, jump on it, pull out bomb, jump from boat, ISG-HISS, pull out bomb while sliding, Mega Flip + 1 Chu Hover past gap, enter main area (it may sound weird, but this way skips one mega flip, so it saves 3 real time seconds)
- Shoot Bubble, Watch cutscence *sigh*, Goron Roll through barrels, Get Hookshot, Get Zora Egg (60R) (18B) (18C)
- Warp to Woodfall, Get 1 Stick from pot, Enter Temple, Hookshot to Chest, Get past rest of the room, Hookshot torch, Go to Lizafos, beat it Goron Jump Thing, Get Bow
- Back to main room, ISG-HISS to get OoB, pull out bomb while Sliding, 8 Mega Flips to skip Boss Key, Kill Odolwa (9B) (11C)
- Warp to Woodfall Owl, Enter Fairy Fountain, Wrong Warp to Snowhead, HISS up to Temple (4B) (3C)
- Block Skip, Get past Bridge Room, Scarecrow Song Skip, Get Fire Arrows, Hookshot to torch, Hookshot other torch, Mega Flip to Snowballs, HISS through Snowballs, Boss Key Skip, Kill Goht, (1B) (0C)
- Warp to CT, Withdraw 140R, Buy 20 Chus and Bombs, Warp to Ikana, Climb Stone Tower and climb on to the last hookshot thing, Mega Flip from there to entrance (11B) (13C)
- Get past first Sun Block with Forward Backflip, Get Small Key, Get past Second Sun Block with Zora Grab Trick, Get 5 Bombs from Enemys next Sun Block, Recoil Flips in Updraft Room, Beat Garo's Master with Deku Sticks and Nuts, Get Light Arrow, Warp to Entrance (10B) (7C)
- Bombchu Recoil Flip to ledge, Sidehop trick for Inverted Stone Tower, Bomb Jump past first room, Boss Key Skip, kill Twimmold (4B) (4C)
- Warp to Bay, Deposit Egg, To Pirate's Fortress, Hookshot Torch, HISS to left Egg, Pull out Bomb while Sliding, Mega Flip to skip battle
- Warp to CT, Activate ISG off banker, Clip into Curiosity Shop, Buy 10 Bombs and Chus, Duplicate Bottles, Warp to Bay, To Pirate's Fortress, Hookshot Torch, Get Egg to left via battle, Get last egg via Bombchu Recoil Flip (12B) (10C)
- Deposit Eggs, Clear Pinnacle, Learn New Wave Bossa Nova, Swim to Great Bay, Play NWBN, Beat GBT
(- Warp to CT, Hover into Clock Tower, Kick ass of Majora, EPIC WIN)

First off, all those boss key skips are MRGRUNZ'S Boss Key Skips >:(

great bay temple TAS with the newest MRGRUNZ boss key skip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXgcQY0WYxg&feature=channel_page

the woodfall and great bay temple BK skips are really easy, great bay is even useable in a SS run, but stone tower and especially snowhead are fucking impossible. snowhead is this one, if you wonder, soulcal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4zmNMoO-Cw&feature=channel_page

And soulcal, through the idea of doing this as a real time TAS. a real time TAS can be so much quicker with another route and wasting game time because of that is lame.

petrie woke my interested for a game time TAS yesterday. I know, that I should actually write this down at the tasvideos forum, but the game time masters are here.

so here's my first route idea (mega flips reduces the number of explosives a lot)

[b]Second Cycle[/b]
- Learn SoH, activate Owl Statue, Withdraw 200R, buy bombchus and bombs (70R) (20B) (20C)
- go to NCT
- WW to Woodfall (16B) (12C)
- Fly to Owl Statue, get 2x deku sticks and deku nuts from pot and deku guys
- back track to Swamp with bomb boosted deku jumping, learn SoS, To Deku Palace, ISG-HISS past guards, Pull out Bomb while Sliding, Hover up to Deku Flower, Fly to ledge, 1 Bomb Hover, learn SoA (12B) (12C)
- Warp to CT, leave to NCT, HISS to Ice Block, Recoil Flip with ice damage through it
- HISS, Pull out Bomb while Sliding, Blow up Snowballs, SS to Owl Statue, Bombchu HISS to next area (8B) (11C)
- HISS through bridge area, HISS to Ice platforms, get Lens of Truth (6B) (11C)
- Warp to Mountain Village, Climb wall, get Goron Mask, Warp to CT, Leave to WCT, Damage Boostin past fence, Swim to Owl Statue, Get Zora Mask, Roll to other Bay Area, Flying Zora to Fountain, Blow up Rick with chu, WW to Ikana (1B) (1C)
- Roll to Owl Statue, Recoil Flip with Bombchu down to river, swim to Swamp, Roll through Lost Woods, get bottle (1B) (0C)
- Warp to CT, Withdraw 130 rupees, buy 20 Chus and Bombs, Warp to Bay, To Pirate's Fortress, Swim as quick as possible to boat, jump on it, pull out bomb, jump from boat, ISG-HISS, pull out bomb while sliding, Mega Flip + 1 Chu Hover past gap, enter main area (it may sound weird, but this way skips one mega flip, so it saves 3 real time seconds)
- Shoot Bubble, Watch cutscence *sigh*, Goron Roll through barrels, Get Hookshot, Get Zora Egg (60R) (18B) (18C)
- Warp to Woodfall, Get 1 Stick from pot, Enter Temple, Hookshot to Chest, Get past rest of the room, Hookshot torch, Go to Lizafos, beat it Goron Jump Thing, Get Bow
- Back to main room, ISG-HISS to get OoB, pull out bomb while Sliding, 8 Mega Flips to skip Boss Key, Kill Odolwa (9B) (11C)
- Warp to Woodfall Owl, Enter Fairy Fountain, Wrong Warp to Snowhead, HISS up to Temple (4B) (3C)
- Block Skip, Get past Bridge Room, Scarecrow Song Skip, Get Fire Arrows, Hookshot to torch, Hookshot other torch, Mega Flip to Snowballs, HISS through Snowballs, Boss Key Skip, Kill Goht, (1B) (0C)
-  Warp to CT, Withdraw 140R, Buy 20 Chus and Bombs, Warp to Ikana, Climb Stone Tower and climb on to the last hookshot thing, Mega Flip from there to entrance (11B) (13C)
- Get past first Sun Block with Forward Backflip, Get Small Key, Get past Second Sun Block with Zora Grab Trick, Get 5 Bombs from Enemys next Sun Block, Recoil Flips in Updraft Room, Beat Garo's Master with Deku Sticks and Nuts, Get Light Arrow, Warp to Entrance (10B) (7C)
- Bombchu Recoil Flip to ledge, Sidehop trick for Inverted Stone Tower, Bomb Jump past first room, Boss Key Skip, kill Twimmold (4B) (4C)
- Warp to Bay, Deposit Egg, To Pirate's Fortress, Hookshot Torch, HISS to left Egg, Pull out Bomb while Sliding, Mega Flip to skip battle
- Warp to CT, Activate ISG off banker, Clip into Curiosity Shop, Buy 10 Bombs and Chus, Duplicate Bottles, Warp to Bay, To Pirate's Fortress, Hookshot Torch, Get Egg to left via battle, Get last egg via Bombchu Recoil Flip (12B) (10C)
- Deposit Eggs, Clear Pinnacle, Learn New Wave Bossa Nova, Swim to Great Bay, Play NWBN, Beat GBT
(- Warp to CT, Hover into Clock Tower, Kick ass of Majora, EPIC WIN)

SoulCalibrII

2009-06-21 11:57:00 am

Mr. Grunz, sorry that people (including me) don't know you discovered the BK skips. My bad.
Anyway, here are my thoughts on your TAS route:
1. Why do you bother getting the Goron Mask? If you WW to Snowhead and do Lullaby Skip, there's no need for it...unless you plan on using it a lot in the run to travel distances too short for SS. But eliminating the trip to the LoT and climbing up to Darmani's Grave would be a big amount of time. And if you WW, you won't even have to travel from NCT to Mountain Village at all; even more time saved. Smiley

2. Consider beating Woodfall Temple without hookshot, as in complete the Temple right after learning the SoA. I'm certain you have enough explosives. This way when you go to the Pirate Fortress the first time, you can knock out the guards at a long distance with the Bow and shoot the Wasp Nest with the Bow (this would save some game time, and you would trade off watching the woodfall cutscene with the Pirate Fortress cutscene, although real time doesn't matter). And btw, when you grab the fairy right at the beginning of Woodfall Temple, it stops the timer for about 2 game minutes.
3. When traveling to Great Bay, I am certain (at least for my skill) that using ISG+SS+hover over the fence is faster than damage boost from Goron. And if you ISS to the shore, your momentum is carried into the water, which propels you really close to the Zora (but I'm sure you already knew that).
4. If you are fast enough, you might even have time to collect a 3rd Zora egg before you multiply bottles. If you have a spare 30-40 game minutes, it is worth collecting a Zora Egg from Pinnacle Rock. This way you have 3 Zora eggs before the curio shop. Then you only sacrifice Deku Mask, Deku Sticks, and Deku Nuts for bottles (since you don't have LoT). This may be too out of reach though.
5. You should buy Bombs, Chus, and other items BEFORE you enter the curiosity shop because you will have to wait until 6:00pm anyway.

What do ya think?

Mr. Grunz, sorry that people (including me) don't know you discovered the BK skips. My bad.
Anyway, here are my thoughts on your TAS route:
1. Why do you bother getting the Goron Mask? If you WW to Snowhead and do Lullaby Skip, there's no need for it...unless you plan on using it a lot in the run to travel distances too short for SS. But eliminating the trip to the LoT and climbing up to Darmani's Grave would be a big amount of time. And if you WW, you won't even have to travel from NCT to Mountain Village at all; even more time saved. :)
2. Consider beating Woodfall Temple without hookshot, as in complete the Temple right after learning the SoA. I'm certain you have enough explosives. This way when you go to the Pirate Fortress the first time, you can knock out the guards at a long distance with the Bow and shoot the Wasp Nest with the Bow (this would save some game time, and you would trade off watching the woodfall cutscene with the Pirate Fortress cutscene, although real time doesn't matter). And btw, when you grab the fairy right at the beginning of Woodfall Temple, it stops the timer for about 2 game minutes. 
3. When traveling to Great Bay, I am certain (at least for my skill) that using ISG+SS+hover over the fence is faster than damage boost from Goron. And if you ISS to the shore, your momentum is carried into the water, which propels you really close to the Zora (but I'm sure you already knew that).
4. If you are fast enough, you might even have time to collect a 3rd Zora egg before you multiply bottles. If you have a spare 30-40 game minutes, it is worth collecting a Zora Egg from Pinnacle Rock. This way you have 3 Zora eggs before the curio shop. Then you only sacrifice Deku Mask, Deku Sticks, and Deku Nuts for bottles (since you don't have LoT). This may be too out of reach though.
5. You should buy Bombs, Chus, and other items BEFORE you enter the curiosity shop because you will have to wait until 6:00pm anyway.

What do ya think?

MrGrunz

2009-06-21 02:06:26 pm

Merry Chrismas =)

1. I'm pretty sure, that I have so much time left, that it's worth getting it. it also adds a huge amount of entertaining and builds a huge difference to the normal any% run. that's why I'm definately going to pick it up

2. the hookshot would skip 2 mega flips, so at least 4 seconds. I'll try to see, if I'm able to work it into the route

3. would cost 1 bomb and 1 chu. and if I think about it, it's much quicker and looks so awesome especially combined with a HISS. a HISS to the water is also something I should have thought about

4. yeah, IF I'm fast enough

5. it's up to, when I arrive at the shop

thanks for the ideas Smiley

SoulCalibrII

2009-06-21 05:00:46 pm

Grunz, what do you mean that it is worth getting the Goron Mask? You save so much time by not getting it. You don't have to travel from NCT to MV, don't have to cross the frozen lake, don't have to travel to LoT cave, and you don't have to climb up to the grave. You only have to fairy WW to Snowhead. Plus you don't even need the Goron Mask to do anything.

And now that I think about it, you will definitely have enough time to collect 3 Zora Eggs before 6:00pm. Think about it this way:
I was able to reach the Curiosity Shop at 6:05pm with 1 Zora egg; non TAS. I split my run up to about 23 segments up until that point. Now, if you were to remove time, say, 6 minutes, per segment from my run, that's a whopping 2 hours 18 minutes! That is plenty of time for you to collect 1 or 2 more eggs. You are easily able to accomplish this and this is assuming our routes are the same, which your route is faster anyway, so add even more game time on top of that! I'm guessing you will have about 3 game hours after beating Woodfall, Snowhead, and Stone Tower to collect more Zora Eggs, which you can collect 2 in that time.

Time saved as compared to my route:
1. The first thing I said in this post (if you decide on this method).
2. Less trips to Bomb Shop.
3. Snowhead and Stone Tower Boss Key skips. I did not try the Woodfall BKS in my test route, but these 3 things alone would save at least 40 minutes!

Sadly, even though you will have 3 extra hours to do more, you will not beat the nonTAS run by 3 hours. This is because collecting extra eggs only saves future game time by removing 1 egg being collected for the trip after you multiply bottles. This will only remove about 30 game minutes overall, not 3 hours. Sad

Grunz, what do you mean that it is worth getting the Goron Mask? You save so much time by not getting it. You don't have to travel from NCT to MV, don't have to cross the frozen lake, don't have to travel to LoT cave, and you don't have to climb up to the grave. You only have to fairy WW to Snowhead. Plus you don't even need the Goron Mask to do anything.

And now that I think about it, you will definitely have enough time to collect 3 Zora Eggs before 6:00pm. Think about it this way:
I was able to reach the Curiosity Shop at 6:05pm with 1 Zora egg; non TAS. I split my run up to about 23 segments up until that point. Now, if you were to remove time, say, 6 minutes, per segment from my run, that's a whopping 2 hours 18 minutes! That is plenty of time for you to collect 1 or 2 more eggs. You are easily able to accomplish this and this is assuming our routes are the same, which your route is faster anyway, so add even more game time on top of that! I'm guessing you will have about 3 game hours after beating Woodfall, Snowhead, and Stone Tower to collect more Zora Eggs, which you can collect 2 in that time.

Time saved as compared to my route: 
1. The first thing I said in this post (if you decide on this method).
2. Less trips to Bomb Shop.
3. Snowhead and Stone Tower Boss Key skips. I did not try the Woodfall BKS in my test route, but these 3 things alone would save at least 40 minutes!

Sadly, even though you will have 3 extra hours to do more, you will not beat the nonTAS run by 3 hours. This is because collecting extra eggs only saves future game time by removing 1 egg being collected for the trip after you multiply bottles. This will only remove about 30 game minutes overall, not 3 hours. :(

arkarian

2009-06-21 07:22:21 pm

gamelogs.org

entertainment shouldn't matter. just do what's fastest.

MrGrunz

2009-06-22 06:27:27 am

Merry Chrismas =)

woodfall will definately be done after pirate's fortress, hookshot saves a lot of time in the first room and in the second room

I have so much time left on the clock before 6pm, that I can get the goron mask

maybe I could also do the goron race after snowhead temple and clear the game without bottle duplication

goron mask saves a lot of time in snowhead temple and all over the run itself. I'll use it at every fucking place to save every possible game second

I could decide the goron race thing after I did snowhead. if you watch my temple TASes on youtube, you'll notice, that I beat stone tower within 6 real time minutes (1 minute and 20 seconds in this), snowhead within 4 minutes, great bay in 2 minutes and woodfall temple in 1:50

just to get a picture at how ultra quick the run will be with all the new boss key skips, the mega flip and the hyper endless superslides

after stone tower it will be something like 2:45 pm in my TAS, goron race would take half a game hour, so this could possibly a good option, or what do you think?

getting to the lens takes 2 minutes from clock town with hyper endless supersliding, that's nothing. on the other hand, climbing the wall will take a good amount of time, but not more than 50 seconds

woodfall will definately be done after pirate's fortress, hookshot saves a lot of time in the first room and in the second room

I have so much time left on the clock before 6pm, that I can get the goron mask

maybe I could also do the goron race after snowhead temple and clear the game without bottle duplication

goron mask saves a lot of time in snowhead temple and all over the run itself. I'll use it at every fucking place to save every possible game second

I could decide the goron race thing after I did snowhead. if you watch my temple TASes on youtube, you'll notice, that I beat stone tower within 6 real time minutes (1 minute and 20 seconds in this), snowhead within 4 minutes, great bay in 2 minutes and woodfall temple in 1:50

just to get a picture at how ultra quick the run will be with all the new boss key skips, the mega flip and the hyper endless superslides

after stone tower it will be something like 2:45 pm in my TAS, goron race would take half a game hour, so this could possibly a good option, or what do you think?

getting to the lens takes 2 minutes from clock town with hyper endless supersliding, that's nothing. on the other hand, climbing the wall will take a good amount of time, but not more than 50 seconds

SoulCalibrII

2009-06-22 12:56:40 pm

Grunz, it is not worth going for the Goron Mask or doing the Goron Race. You cant even use that bottle until 6pm anyway(b/c of gold dust), so you should do the bottle duplication trick. And I doubt the time saved by getting the goron mask and using it in the run would make up for the time it takes to just get it. Do what is fastest, not what is more entertaining to you. The people will view entertainment value as how fast the run is.

Since you have so much extra time, collect the Zora Eggs. By the time you travel to the grotto, WW to LoT, cross the frozen lake, climb up to the grave, then travel across the path to Snowhead, you could have just wrong warped to Snowhead, and also probably have beaten the Temple by then. Plus you could use HISS with bombchus to travel those distances you normally would with Goron Mask. Collecting bombs and chus at the shop only takes me 4 game minutes per trip, so feel free to use them whenever possible.

And 2 other tidbits;
1. I believe when you use the hookshot on a target, the game timer stop for that brief period while you are drawn to it.
2. One game hour is worth about 2minutes 16.5 seconds real time. If you said it takes 2 minutes to go to LoT from CT (minus about 15 seconds for cutscenes and pauses), then that's about 40 game minutes, plus the time to travel to the grave, then to Snowhead via the path is another 25, plus the time to HISS up to the entrance is 20 more. This is compared to the time it takes you to WW from Woodfall to Snowhead. To enter the Fairy Fountain and WW takes about 20 minutes and to travel up Snowhead wouldn't take more than 20 (these two times were based on your TASes of WW and LS) So that's 40 minutes as compared to 85. I apologize if I am overlooking something obvious.

Grunz, it is not worth going for the Goron Mask or doing the Goron Race. You cant even use that bottle until 6pm anyway(b/c of gold dust), so you should do the bottle duplication trick. And I doubt the time saved by getting the goron mask and using it in the run would make up for the time it takes to just get it. Do what is fastest, not what is more entertaining to you. The people will view entertainment value as how fast the run is.

Since you have so much extra time, collect the Zora Eggs. By the time you travel to the grotto, WW to LoT, cross the frozen lake, climb up to the grave, then travel across the path to Snowhead, you could have just wrong warped to Snowhead, and also probably have beaten the Temple by then. Plus you could use HISS with bombchus to travel those distances you normally would with Goron Mask. Collecting bombs and chus at the shop only takes me 4 game minutes per trip, so feel free to use them whenever possible.

And 2 other tidbits; 
1. I believe when you use the hookshot on a target, the game timer stop for that brief period while you are drawn to it.
2. One game hour is worth about 2minutes 16.5 seconds real time. If you said it takes 2 minutes to go to LoT from CT (minus about 15 seconds for cutscenes and pauses), then that's about 40 game minutes, plus the time to travel to the grave, then to Snowhead via the path is another 25, plus the time to HISS up to the entrance is 20 more. This is compared to the time it takes you to WW from Woodfall to Snowhead. To enter the Fairy Fountain and WW takes about 20 minutes and to travel up Snowhead wouldn't take more than 20 (these two times were based on your TASes of WW and LS) So that's 40 minutes as compared to 85. I apologize if I am overlooking something obvious.

Guest

2009-06-22 01:51:11 pm

Quote:

Grunz, it is not worth going for the Goron Mask or doing the Goron Race. You cant even use that bottle until 6pm anyway(b/c of gold dust), so you should do the bottle duplication trick. And I doubt the time saved by getting the goron mask and using it in the run would make up for the time it takes to just get it. Do what is fastest, not what is more entertaining to you. The people will view entertainment value as how fast the run is.

Can you sell the gold dust before you upgrade your sword and possibly duplicate bottles at the mountain village?

SoulCalibrII

2009-06-22 02:23:06 pm

Quote from Guest:

Can you sell the gold dust before you upgrade your sword and possibly duplicate bottles at the mountain village?

Sadly, no. Sad

And I created this TAS route just now. What do you people think?
http://www.2shared.com/file/6412326/9dd3d0de/MMGameTimeRouteTAS.html

MrGrunz

2009-06-22 02:31:03 pm

Merry Chrismas =)

I somehow doubt, that I still want to do the run. it's just a bad version of the any% run without the goron mask. I agree, that goron mask skip is quicker and I could clear whole pinnacle until 6 pm with one bottle, but think about it:

only differences is the wrong warp to woodfall and another temple order. doing pinnacle with one bottle also destroys a lot of entertainment Wink

that's how I would enter snowhead temple, btw:

you should really watch my vids Tongue

SoulCalibrII

Edit history:

SoulCalibrII: 2009-06-23 08:54:20 am

2009-06-22 02:37:08 pm

Quote from MrGrunz:

that's how I would enter snowhead temple, btw:

you should really watch my vids Tongue

I know; this video is what I based the estimated times on actually. Tongue

Quote:

I somehow doubt I still want to do the run. It's just a bad version of the any% run without the goron mask.

Is the any% TAS going to get the goron mask? Why?

Jiano

2009-06-24 05:23:17 pm

Any% Route

Any input on this would be great. The biggest problem is it cuts it really close at the end with only 1:30 left on the clock when I entered the clock tower. I didn't count any rupees from grass, and I ended up getting a lot more than I expected. I might try to fit in buying a deku stick or two to make Gomess/Majora easier, but I'm not sure.

petrie911

2009-06-24 06:36:29 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Quote from SoulCalibrII:

Quote:

I somehow doubt I still want to do the run. It's just a bad version of the any% run without the goron mask.

Is the any% TAS going to get the goron mask? Why?

I think he means "Without the Goron mask, [game time]'s just a bad version of the any%". And he's kind of right...