Lego Racers

RabidJellyfish

Edit history:

RabidJellyfish: 2013-02-16 12:28:37 pm

RabidJellyfish: 2012-09-27 10:15:25 pm

RabidJellyfish: 2012-09-27 10:15:10 pm

RabidJellyfish: 2012-09-27 10:14:18 pm

RabidJellyfish: 2012-09-27 10:13:46 pm

2012-09-27 07:56:47 am

I'm considering trying to run Lego Racers - it was the first game I ever really played hardcore as a child. If anyone has ever played this game, do you know of any glitches or skips? I already know all the official shortcuts, I'm talking about things like this:

I feel like there have to be other places to do this (this is kind of a huge skip), but I'm having trouble figuring out why the glitch is happening, which is making it difficult to find other places for it. Thoughts?

EDIT: My first full practice run of this clocked in at 51:43 (including menu/loading time, but not including new car cutscenes because I wasn't playing on a new file, so the real time is probably closer to 53 minutes). There were many mistakes though and I'm not sure how much time was lost because of that, so I'll figure out a goal after a few more practice runs.

Thread title:

DoubleThink

Edit history:

DoubleThink: 2012-09-27 10:20:10 am

2012-09-27 10:17:59 am

There's a word for that

I haven't really tried to break the game, but I still experienced the odd Warp Boost spaz-out. They usually left me pointing in the wrong direction Sad

I remember they sometimes wouldn't move me as far as they should either. Based on the time trial ghosts and the sound effect that occurs when NPCs boost past you, I suspect that it's not an issue with the boost itself (as it travels down a preset path), but rather the high-speed warp exit allowing the cart to end up in places that it shouldn't. In that video, it looks like the OoB failsafe is dropping the player back where they were when the boost was initiated - after the game has already registered them as crossing the start/finish line. Such a trick could only be used to save time once per race and only on boosts that actually cross the line.

IIRC WB's always move the player 'forward' even if they're facing the wrong way, but they maintain direction upon exiting, so position, angle and speed could all be important factors (e.g. getting hung up on the wall of a tight corridor for a few seconds used to happen a lot more often if I boosted while turning/powersliding). If you can find a warp spot that glitches out consistently, it may be worth testing it with the time trial ghost or two players, to get an idea of exactly what the game is doing during the boost process. Or, if searching for warp breaks on every track proves to be too much hassle, you can always submit the run(s) as 'no skip glitches' Smiley

Surprisingly, an incidental YouTube search turned up some recent videos that may be of interest:
The truth about Knightmare-athon, Another warp glitch, Collection 1, Collection 2: Awesome Boogaloo

I haven't really tried to break the game, but I still experienced the odd Warp Boost spaz-out. They usually left me pointing in the wrong direction :( I remember they sometimes wouldn't move me as far as they should either. Based on the time trial ghosts and the sound effect that occurs when NPCs boost past you, I suspect that it's not an issue with the boost itself (as it travels down a preset path), but rather the high-speed warp exit allowing the cart to end up in places that it shouldn't. In that video, it looks like the OoB failsafe is dropping the player back where they were when the boost was initiated - [i]after[/i] the game has already registered them as crossing the start/finish line. Such a trick could only be used to save time once per race and only on boosts that actually cross the line.

IIRC WB's always move the player 'forward' even if they're facing the wrong way, but they maintain direction upon exiting, so position, angle and speed could all be important factors (e.g. getting hung up on the wall of a tight corridor for a few seconds used to happen a lot more often if I boosted while turning/powersliding). If you can find a warp spot that glitches out consistently, it may be worth testing it with the time trial ghost or two players, to get an idea of exactly what the game is doing during the boost process. Or, if searching for warp breaks on every track proves to be too much hassle, you can always submit the run(s) as 'no skip glitches' :)

Surprisingly, an incidental YouTube search turned up some recent videos that may be of interest:
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7kJ0Gl52zE]The truth about Knightmare-athon[/url], [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a00sigp-XNM]Another warp glitch[/url], [url=http://www.youtube.com/user/jamessterV2/videos?query=racers]Collection 1[/url], [url=http://www.youtube.com/user/TeenageProgrammer/videos?query=legoracers]Collection 2: Awesome Boogaloo[/url]

RabidJellyfish

2012-09-27 01:42:51 pm

That explanation about the warp glitch makes sense, because I remember seeing another video where the player basically moves forwards and backwards on the first stretch of that track and it still registers them as completing the lap. So the reason that glitch works is that they warp past the lap trigger, fall out of the map, and instantly return back to where they warped, before the second lap trigger.

Those other videos are interesting, especially the knightmare-athon on. I'll look into those when I get time.

aneeslol

2012-09-27 04:46:15 pm

I'm a chuckster!

I remember that warp glitch happening to me once during a race. I have a highlight of it here(kind of interesting since it's on the same track as the video you posted): http://www.twitch.tv/aneeslol/b/298721893

Sadly I don't really know any other glitches that might be useful in a speedrun, but maybe having a second video can help you figure out the warp glitch.

RabidJellyfish

2012-09-27 05:17:45 pm

Here's what I was talking about earlier with the video of the forward/reversing and skipping laps:

What I'm curious about now is whether or not the lap skipping (whether it's with a warp or not) works with other tracks, and if so, whether or not I can save time by using that.

RabidJellyfish

Edit history:

RabidJellyfish: 2013-02-18 10:35:07 am

RabidJellyfish: 2013-02-18 10:34:13 am

2013-02-16 12:34:21 pm

This thread is relatively old, but I picked up this game again and have been practicing it. So far my record is 49:19. My goal is sub 49, but it could probably actually be as low 48 minutes. The problem is that this game is, surprisingly, heavily luck based (damn enemy racers keep stealing my white bricks Sad

)

In terms of tricks, magma moon seems to be the only track where I can manipulate the lap triggers and still save time. I did find an interesting glitch with the UFOs in the Alien Asteroid Rally level (or whatever it's called), though - if you use your shield right when they pass over you to drag you backwards, it seems like the force of the tractor beam is applied in the opposite direction, and it gives you a huge speed boost forward. It's kind of hard to steer your car when this happens though, so odds are I won't be using it.

Ghostwheel

2013-02-21 08:01:03 am

The artist formerly known as Qxy

I'd love to see a run of this game. Good luck.

RabidJellyfish

2013-02-21 12:46:13 pm

Glad to hear that, thanks Cheesy

I hit my goal of sub 49 (I got 48:55 a couple days ago) but I still made stupid mistakes. I can probably improve it by 20-30 more seconds.

RabidJellyfish

2013-05-12 07:29:40 pm

Sorry to bump such an old thread again. I kind of lost interest in this for the moment, but I wanted to show my progress in case someone else wants to run this. I ended up with a time of 48:30, but my ultimate goal was sub 48. That never happened because RNG is mean. Bitches keep stealing my power ups.

Anyway here's a video of my record.

ToxicOxygen

2013-05-12 11:05:03 pm

Deploying surprise in five, four...

Very nice run :D. I really hoped someone will run this game because I really liked it back then.

jamesster

2013-05-18 06:14:11 pm

Just signed up here to say good job - somebody at a forum for classic LEGO games I'm on posted a topic showing your speedrun and linked back to this topic here. I haven't watched 100% of it, but I've skipped around a bit and it looks like you've done a solid job here. Also interesting to see some of my YouTube videos mentioned here, along with the videos of some other RRU guys... Though that Knightmare-Athon video of mine is really outdated, we now have a 3D track viewer that's revealed that the checkpoints for that removed shortcut are still in the game, for example.

Some other info in case you don't already know... There's two main known versions of the game; the original 1999 release, and a 2001 altered release. The 2001 release was mainly made to fix compatibility issues with Windows XP I think, but some other changes were made - different load screens, the removal of trophies on the driver's license, some sound effect tweaks, blah blah blah... But more importantly, the car physics and warp distance/speed were changed. (There's also a second 1999 version, but the only difference between it and the other 1999 version we can find is that it has most of the 2001 load screen images... Nothing major.) I was actually gonna make a video later today to show a side-by-side comparison of the warps between the two versions, I imagine it could make a difference for serious speedrunners (as it has in RRU's current tournament for the game), but going by the footage in your video it looks like you're playing the 2001 version (the load screens always have blue borders, the warp sound effect is different, and more obviously, the glitch you used on Magma Moon Marathon simply doesn't work in the 1999 version).

Anyway, it looks like you're using all of the most important tricks and strategies here in this speedrun, so good job on that. Keep it up.

Just signed up here to say good job - somebody at a forum for classic LEGO games I'm on posted [url=http://www.rockraidersunited.org/topic/4794-a-lego-racers-speedrun-4830/]a topic[/url] showing your speedrun and linked back to this topic here. I haven't watched 100% of it, but I've skipped around a bit and it looks like you've done a solid job here. Also interesting to see some of my YouTube videos mentioned here, along with the videos of some other RRU guys... Though that Knightmare-Athon video of mine is really outdated, we now have a 3D track viewer that's revealed that the checkpoints for that removed shortcut are still in the game, for example.

Some other info in case you don't already know... There's two main known versions of the game; the original 1999 release, and a 2001 altered release. The 2001 release was mainly made to fix compatibility issues with Windows XP I think, but some other changes were made - different load screens, the removal of trophies on the driver's license, some sound effect tweaks, blah blah blah... But more importantly, the car physics and warp distance/speed were changed. (There's also a second 1999 version, but the only difference between it and the other 1999 version we can find is that it has most of the 2001 load screen images... Nothing major.) I was actually gonna make a video later today to show a side-by-side comparison of the warps between the two versions, I imagine it could make a difference for serious speedrunners (as it has in RRU's current tournament for the game), but going by the footage in your video it looks like you're playing the 2001 version (the load screens always have blue borders, the warp sound effect is different, and more obviously, the glitch you used on Magma Moon Marathon simply doesn't work in the 1999 version).

Anyway, it looks like you're using all of the most important tricks and strategies here in this speedrun, so good job on that. Keep it up.

RabidJellyfish

2013-05-18 06:24:11 pm

Thanks for the feedback! There's a lot of stuff in the run that didn't go quite as well as I'd hoped, but I'm glad everyone else is enjoying it. That's interesting to hear about the version differences, do you happen to know which version has a further warp distance? Although I guess 2001 would be the fastest version regardless, if the Magma Moon Marathon glitch doesn't work in the 1999 version. That glitch saves a ton of time.

I kind of wish more people would run this. There's probably still a lot of experimenting to be done with optimizing power-up handling. Also, competition might motivate me to play this more Tongue

jamesster

Edit history:

jamesster: 2013-05-18 08:43:17 pm

2013-05-18 06:28:26 pm

I'm honestly not sure which of the versions has faster warping, it's been a while since I've checked - I'll go do that now, and post the video here when it's up.

Edit: Gonna copy/paste this over from my counterpart post on RRU:

Quote:

Back from warp testing, with some interesting results. I re-created the original experiment - warping just before the finish line from identical cars and not touching the controls afterwards, on Desert Adventure Dragway on a certain part of the rock road texture for precision. Previously, on one version of the game, the car came out of the warp and got slowed down by sand instantly afterward, while in the other version, the car skipped over the sand and bounced off of a rock wall beyond it. At first, it happened exactly as it did last time... Then I repeated the experiment, and both cars skipped over the sand, I did it again, and it was reversed, again, and both got stuck. Reviewing the videos, the start positions seem so close to each other that I see no way that they could be responsible for this unpredictable behavior.

I also tested on the Rocket Racer Run shortcut, as you always warp from the same position there, and while the identical cars did indeed end up in slightly different positions, it was hardly enough to be of any worry - perhaps some more testing there would be good. Additionally, using a normal warp while sitting in front of the door of the RRR shortcut lands you just slightly beyond where the shortcut door lands you, but not by very far.

I also tried to compare car handling between games, and as far as I can tell, it's either the same, or so close there's really no practical difference.

tl;dr, this is an utter mess with no clear results, I think it's safe to say that any differences that may exist between the game versions are so minor they won't really make too much of a difference in the tournament if warps are ever allowed. However, through the tournament so far, I've gotta say I like it better without warps, regardless - warping is so overpowered that it puts a good chunk of the race in autopilot mode for the player; without them, you have to focus more on your actual driving and strategy for using power-ups besides the standard "three whites and a green x9001 for instant win" strategy most people otherwise use.

I'm honestly not sure which of the versions has faster warping, it's been a while since I've checked - I'll go do that now, and post the video here when it's up.

Edit: Gonna copy/paste this over from my counterpart post on RRU:

[quote]Back from warp testing, with some interesting results. I re-created the original experiment - warping just before the finish line from identical cars and not touching the controls afterwards, on Desert Adventure Dragway on a certain part of the rock road texture for precision. Previously, on one version of the game, the car came out of the warp and got slowed down by sand instantly afterward, while in the other version, the car skipped over the sand and bounced off of a rock wall beyond it. At first, it happened exactly as it did last time... Then I repeated the experiment, and both cars skipped over the sand, I did it again, and it was reversed, again, and both got stuck. Reviewing the videos, the start positions seem so close to each other that I see no way that they could be responsible for this unpredictable behavior.

I also tested on the Rocket Racer Run shortcut, as you always warp from the same position there, and while the identical cars did indeed end up in slightly different positions, it was hardly enough to be of any worry - perhaps some more testing there would be good. Additionally, using a normal warp while sitting in front of the door of the RRR shortcut lands you just slightly beyond where the shortcut door lands you, but not by very far.

I also tried to compare car handling between games, and as far as I can tell, it's either the same, or so close there's really no practical difference.

tl;dr, this is an utter mess with no clear results, I think it's safe to say that any differences that may exist between the game versions are so minor they won't really make too much of a difference in the tournament if warps are ever allowed. However, through the tournament so far, I've gotta say I like it better without warps, regardless - warping is so overpowered that it puts a good chunk of the race in autopilot mode for the player; without them, you have to focus more on your actual driving and strategy for using power-ups besides the standard "three whites and a green x9001 for instant win" strategy most people otherwise use.[/quote]

DoubleThink

2013-05-20 02:28:31 am

There's a word for that

I know I have the 1999 version because that's when I got it Cheesy

Have you (RabidJellyfish) asked about the rulings for unlocks/track setups? There's nothing stopping someone from doing all the circuits in order after completing the game, meaning you could probably make your own car with some supposedly-faster chassis if you wanted to. IL runs might need clarifying too, because the time trials have different powerup placements to the group races, while the single races can be set up as though they were 'individual levels' in a circuit round.

RabidJellyfish

2013-05-20 02:55:52 pm

I'm assuming that single segments need to be run on clean save files, since you don't need to watch the car-unlock cutscenes for circuits you've already beaten. Cutscenes might actually make a bigger time difference than having a faster car. Running through each circuit with a pre-built car/no cutscenes might qualify as a NG+ run.

I'm also guessing that there could be two different IL tables, one of them being all the time trials. The other I'm thinking would either be individual circuits or single races, but the fact that the player can change the number of racers in a single race in the options menu makes the rules for a single race IL table a little harder to define. Maybe a category with no racers and one with?

Again, these are all assumptions, but I'd like to hear what other people think.

RabidJellyfish

Edit history:

RabidJellyfish: 2013-06-02 11:16:18 am

RabidJellyfish: 2013-06-01 01:35:08 pm

2013-05-31 08:33:43 pm

Apparently the Magma Moon Marathon lap skipping glitch works on other tracks:

I've been working on speedrunning all the time trials, and I've been experimenting more with the lap triggers. It looks like I missed a lot. The glitch on these two tracks alone can shave about 3-4 minutes off my existing run, and if I find more tracks that this works on, it'll be even more. With enough tracks, there might need to be a "large skips" category for this game Cheesy

It's interesting how it works on all the tracks in the first circuit except the first one. I'll continue experimenting on the other tracks.

EDIT: Did some more experimenting, and I found more tracks that it works on. The list of tracks you can complete laps without actually completing them is:
Dark Forest Dash
Magma Moon Marathon
Desert Adventure Dragway
Tribal Island Trail
Pirate Skull Pass
Adventure Temple Trail

I'm especially happy about the last two. I hate those tracks.

Apparently the Magma Moon Marathon lap skipping glitch works on other tracks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2U0qB1Ecn4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcGCywrdgPY

I've been working on speedrunning all the time trials, and I've been experimenting more with the lap triggers. It looks like I missed a lot. The glitch on these two tracks alone can shave about 3-4 minutes off my existing run, and if I find more tracks that this works on, it'll be even more. With enough tracks, there might need to be a "large skips" category for this game :D

It's interesting how it works on all the tracks in the first circuit except the first one. I'll continue experimenting on the other tracks.

EDIT: Did some more experimenting, and I found more tracks that it works on. The list of tracks you can complete laps without actually completing them is:
Dark Forest Dash
Magma Moon Marathon
Desert Adventure Dragway
Tribal Island Trail
Pirate Skull Pass
Adventure Temple Trail

I'm especially happy about the last two. I hate those tracks.

Scepheo

2013-06-01 02:24:18 pm

Sweet finds. I've been keeping up with this thread, and I've really liked everything you've done (nice run, too). Now that running the game doesn't take as long any more (and Pirate Skull Pass is out of the way) I might just give it a few tries too.

RabidJellyfish

Edit history:

RabidJellyfish: 2013-06-12 12:29:23 pm

2013-06-01 03:05:35 pm

Good to hear Cheesy

I just did a practice run with the new skips and got a 43:15. I messed up a lot, though, my goal is probably going to be closer to 42 minutes.

Yourself

2013-06-09 12:14:18 am

This is a cool find! Saves a lot of time. I hope Lego racers running will become more popular now Tongue

RabidJellyfish

Edit history:

RabidJellyfish: 2013-06-13 09:26:28 am

RabidJellyfish: 2013-06-13 09:26:26 am

RabidJellyfish: 2013-06-12 04:22:48 pm

2013-06-12 12:31:14 pm

I just got a 42:14! I'm actually pretty happy with it, but I'm going to see if I can eventually shave off those 14 seconds and get a sub-42. It's definitely possible. I'll upload what I have to YT and post it when it's up.

ToxicOxygen

2013-06-12 01:46:12 pm

Deploying surprise in five, four...

Wow, thats alot of improvment, Can't wait!

RabidJellyfish

2013-06-13 09:28:52 am

Here's the run:

Unless new tricks are found, I'll probably submit when I get sub-42. Maybe 41:45 if I can optimize the skips (especially on ATT, which was kind of slow in this run).

RabidJellyfish

2013-06-20 07:51:33 pm

So, I'm about ready to make a submission for this game, although not for a single segment run. I finished up the Time Trial IL table I've been working on, which includes both glitched and non-glitched runs for the tracks with skips. If you want to watch it, here's a playlist: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1u_Gpn9ll96JMqkQIgt9WT8WJAVuEQnA

I'll keep working on getting a faster SS time, and hopefully I can submit one of those soon enough Cheesy

eXeC

Edit history:

eXeC: 2013-06-21 01:45:03 am

2013-06-21 01:44:49 am

I liek cookies

Would love to see a segmented speedrun (glitched, of course) of this. Keep up the good work!

Yourself

2013-06-23 12:01:48 pm

These speedruns are great! I admire how accurately you are able to turn.