La-Mulana

BlueGlass

Edit history:

BlueGlass: 2011-04-11 04:59:55 pm

2011-04-11 04:41:38 pm

Yep yep yep!

Flares also shouldn't be hard to plan, at least early in the run. 12+15+9+18+13=67. Taking things into consideration for Jman's run as well, there are 5 close flare pots before tower of the goddess, so if he were to use 8 on Bahamut, 9 on Viy, and 11 on Amphis, that would work well. Then again, if he can get some kind of consistency on that perfect knife he accidentally pulled in the marathon, that would cut Viy flares down to zero, as well as making the fight significantly less dangerous.

edit: Also, Jman, please make sure to use the faster solution to the mace puzzle this time. It's right, left, right, right, left, left, stand on right. Sorry to point that out so specifically, but seeing you still use the longer solution at JRDQ was a bit frustrating.

On a different note, once I can play the game again, I plan on making a full list of pot contents, which should come in handy for planning out coins, weights, and sub-weapons. The one on the wiki is horribly incomplete.

Anonymous52555

2011-04-11 06:01:42 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

Well I am happy to say I got to the first save (I was in panic mode at the end since I had 1 hp left, wasn't fun.) That hopefully will be one of the hardest segments in the run. The others might have tougher enemies, but the others won't be as long. Oh well time to start practicing other segments. Also BlueGlass, It would be nice to see a pot guide that is complete.

TheMaxican

2011-04-11 09:08:48 pm

Break through the final confusion

Wow, the thread kinda exploded there for a bit. Smiley

Anon and BlueGlass, I wish I had something I could jump in and help with but it looks like you both have it handled! Haha... anyway, good to hear there's great progress so far.

You mentioned a "complete pot guide". I was actually just planning on doing that in the coming days. Perhaps we could all team up and divvy up the work to make it go faster or something? What do you guys think?

Jman: Good luck in your run! I'm sure it'll be awesome. Yeah, I've been thinking about the 100% definition and I get what you're saying. I guess the only things I'm actually leaving out at this point are the Chain Whip, Fake Silver Shield, Silver Shield, Buckler, and all maps. I REALLY don't like the idea of getting the buckler and/or fake silver shield because that's more boring farming for coins (and yeah, I'm definitely seeing that I WON'T get the coins I need in normal segmented play so I WILL have to have "farming" segments, unfortunately...). In any case, I was intending to make a route plan with ALL of these things in mind so we can always discuss more as I finalize it.

Oh, and what Viy flares quick kill are you all talking about that I seem not to know about? Smiley

I always thought getting knocked into his eye and stabbing him with the Knife was the fastest way, at least before seeing that throwing knife kill...

Wow, the thread kinda exploded there for a bit. :)

Anon and BlueGlass, I wish I had something I could jump in and help with but it looks like you both have it handled! Haha... anyway, good to hear there's great progress so far.

You mentioned a "complete pot guide". I was actually just planning on doing that in the coming days. Perhaps we could all team up and divvy up the work to make it go faster or something? What do you guys think?

Jman: Good luck in your run! I'm sure it'll be awesome. Yeah, I've been thinking about the 100% definition and I get what you're saying. I guess the only things I'm actually leaving out at this point are the Chain Whip, Fake Silver Shield, Silver Shield, Buckler, and all maps. I REALLY don't like the idea of getting the buckler and/or fake silver shield because that's more boring farming for coins (and yeah, I'm definitely seeing that I WON'T get the coins I need in normal segmented play so I WILL have to have "farming" segments, unfortunately...). In any case, I was intending to make a route plan with ALL of these things in mind so we can always discuss more as I finalize it.

Oh, and what Viy flares quick kill are you all talking about that I seem not to know about? :) I always thought getting knocked into his eye and stabbing him with the Knife was the fastest way, at least before seeing that throwing knife kill...

Anonymous52555

Edit history:

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-11 09:16:47 pm

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-11 09:16:31 pm

2011-04-11 09:16:17 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

Oh for Viy, flares do the same damage as the knife only they don't have reload time as I like to call it so you can spam them at his eye. If you combine the knife and flares he goes down really fast.

BlueGlass

2011-04-11 09:41:44 pm

Yep yep yep!

Anon, I think he meant knife the main weapon, and congratulations on making it past segment 1.

TheMaxican, Knife does 3 damage, flares four. And I'm not sure it's really necessary to split things up for the pot guide, just make a list as you go and the whole thing shouldn't take more than a half hour to 45 minutes. Also, thinking about the farming segments you'll need, it'd be best if you wait to do them until after the area 3 mantra, since that's your first chance to grab the bracelet without having to go out of your way.

Like I said before, I would do the pot guide right now, but there's problems. To sum it up, the Windows side of my laptop (used exclusively for running Windows-only programs) got a virus a while back. I fixed that, but ever since, La-Mulana has consistently had the same problems, even when I redownloaded it: the 200 coin pot is empty, the warp in confusion gate just before the ladder leading to the pepper/anchor doesn't exist, and quite possibly other things I don't know about. It's really weird, but now that I need to be sure the game's running normally, I plan to format the windows partition on my hard drive, which should fix the problem. Sorry about rambling.

Anon, I think he meant knife the main weapon, and congratulations on making it past segment 1.

TheMaxican, Knife does 3 damage, flares four.  And I'm not sure it's really necessary to split things up for the pot guide, just make a list as you go and the whole thing shouldn't take more than a half hour to 45 minutes.  Also, thinking about the farming segments you'll need, it'd be best if you wait to do them until after the area 3 mantra, since that's your first chance to grab the bracelet without having to go out of your way.

Like I said before, I would do the pot guide right now, but there's problems.  To sum it up, the Windows side of my laptop (used exclusively for running Windows-only programs) got a virus a while back.  I fixed that, but ever since, La-Mulana has consistently had the same problems, even when I redownloaded it: the 200 coin pot is empty, the warp in confusion gate just before the ladder leading to the pepper/anchor doesn't exist, and quite possibly other things I don't know about.  It's really weird, but now that I need to be sure the game's running normally, I plan to format the windows partition on my hard drive, which should fix the problem.  Sorry about rambling.

TheMaxican

2011-04-11 09:54:08 pm

Break through the final confusion

Yeah, that was the plan, BlueGlass. Having to wait until I have Bombs to get the Bracelet basically means that it has to happen near the end. I'm obviously still far from a final plan so I don't how much farming this will entail. Hopefully not too much. I may end up just having a segment every time I need the Grail, to maximize coin grabbing during the "normal" run, haha... I guess we'll have to wait and see.

But yeah, after a certain point, pretty much every segment will start with a few quick teleports to get some quick coins. The advantage of this is that I don't have to worry about Weights, Shurikens, and Flares, so I can spam them through the run without worry (or at least, that's the hope).

Oh, and thanks for the Viy flares tip, I actually didn't know about that. Smiley

Is it possible to one-round him using this method? Cuz that'd be sweet. I know I did a 2 round fight with the Knife but it was pretty hard...

And sucks to hear about your laptop. Funny thing you mentioned that, since last time I played I noticed that the 200 coin pot was empty for me too. At the time I thought it was a freak coincidence, but now that you mention it, I'm not sure anymore...

And yeah, I guess the best idea for the pot guide is just to do it separately and then compare at the end as a sort of sanity check, haha...

Yeah, that was the plan, BlueGlass. Having to wait until I have Bombs to get the Bracelet basically means that it has to happen near the end. I'm obviously still far from a final plan so I don't how much farming this will entail. Hopefully not too much. I may end up just having a segment every time I need the Grail, to maximize coin grabbing during the "normal" run, haha... I guess we'll have to wait and see.

But yeah, after a certain point, pretty much every segment will start with a few quick teleports to get some quick coins. The advantage of this is that I don't have to worry about Weights, Shurikens, and Flares, so I can spam them through the run without worry (or at least, that's the hope).

Oh, and thanks for the Viy flares tip, I actually didn't know about that. :) Is it possible to one-round him using this method? Cuz that'd be sweet. I know I did a 2 round fight with the Knife but it was pretty hard...

And sucks to hear about your laptop. Funny thing you mentioned that, since last time I played I noticed that the 200 coin pot was empty for me too. At the time I thought it was a freak coincidence, but now that you mention it, I'm not sure anymore...

And yeah, I guess the best idea for the pot guide is just to do it separately and then compare at the end as a sort of sanity check, haha...

BlueGlass

2011-04-11 10:21:33 pm

Yep yep yep!

You'll need 1795 coins beyond what would normally be required, unless I miscounted. That's a lot of farming.

I wonder if it would be better to make a detour for the bracelet so you can inlude Shrine of the Mother in your farming segments. That place has 3-4 coin pots iirc.

As for one-rounding Viy, if you managed a two-round with just the knife, then I'd say it's definitely possible. Still, if Jman's throwing knife kill can be repeated, that would probably be the better way to go at least for single segment, since it isn't so resource-intensive.

TheMaxican

2011-04-11 10:29:50 pm

Break through the final confusion

1795 coins, that was my count too.

I still have to figure out the specifics of the farming segments, but yeah, Shrine of the Mother may actually be a good idea. But yeah, like I said, with (fairly) heavy segmentation, it may turn out that I don't need to farm THAT much.

Err, would anyone happen to know if the "loading" screen (with the dial-up noises) counts against the game's timer? Because if it doesn't, the cost of segmenting should be pretty negligible (well, minus the time to equip MSX cartridges and such).

BlueGlass

2011-04-11 10:40:53 pm

Yep yep yep!

The ingame timer probably shouldn't be used anyway, since it times from first save, I think. In other words, if Jman had saved in his submitted run just before going off to fight Mother, his final time would've been about 10 minutes. And since SDA timing starts with control of character, the loading screen isn't something you'll need to worry about.

A random comment related to 100% Unlike what many people believe, key faries will be effective no matter where on screen you are, it's just a matter of staying on that screen long enough. The same holds for impregnating the woman statue. Obviously, you can use this time to do things. like traverse the room.

TheMaxican

Edit history:

TheMaxican: 2011-04-11 11:04:15 pm

TheMaxican: 2011-04-11 11:04:12 pm

TheMaxican: 2011-04-11 11:04:11 pm

2011-04-11 10:58:25 pm

Break through the final confusion

Are you sure? If you look at Jman's run (the YouTube link that Anon posted a bit ago), the final time reported actually ends up being pretty gosh darn close to how long it took in real time. I'm thinking they actually do timing from Lemeza landing on Surface to when you pick up the La-Mulana Treasure...

EDIT: Just looked back at the YouTube video. Jman lands on Surface at 0:01:17 and gets the La-Mulana Treasure at 2:45:53. That's a time of 2:44:36. The game gives him a 2:44:09, which is just a mere 27 seconds off. So yeah, pretty close. Not sure where the game didn't count 27 seconds... maybe when you actually pause? Although I remember at some point Jman "minimized" the game to go check on Skype or something so maybe that's it.

And yeah, I knew about the key fairies. I DIDN'T know about the woman statue though. Thanks for that.

BlueGlass

2011-04-11 11:20:06 pm

Yep yep yep!

Okay, I guess I misunderstood something either Jman or Anon said. Thanks for the correction.

Thinking about your run, at least some of those coins you're going to need earlier rather than later. Diviner Sensation, Castlevania, Mahjong Wizard, and the heatproof case all cost money and can be used to save time Not to mention that Seal of El Giza+Maze of Galious would shorten the coin farming by 10%. And you shouldn't take the first trip to Tower of the Goddess until you have the time lamp, so you can get Pippols without having to fight the current.

TheMaxican

2011-04-11 11:44:37 pm

Break through the final confusion

Yeah, Diviner Sensation and heatproof case (and maybe waterproof?) I'm definitely getting earlier. Castlevania + Mahjong Wizard I'm a little mixed on, though, because I can't actually think of any bosses/sub-bosses that I can beat faster with the Mace than with the Knife + Video Hustler + Break Shot, so it may end up being a waste. The ONLY one I can think of is Sakit, but that would require a strange route that would take me right PAST Sakit to go through the Endless Corridor first! (Since I need the Fairies to get Castlevania...) So it's probably not worth it.

And holy crap I COMPLETELY forgot about the Seal of El Giza + Maze of Galious combo! Good catch! Unfortunately this one can't be used until VERY late, since I can't get Maze of Galious until I have the Magatama Jewel. Actually... that's around the same time I'd be getting the Bracelet, haha. So there you go.
...It's hard to say how much time that combo will save, though, now that I think about it. A few of the really fast coins are in the back side, so I'd have to equip Antarctic Adventure + Comic Bakery, teleport, then equip Seal of El Giza + Maze of Galious, get the coin, then go back... etc. So it might only have a limited usage. Darn it... I'll have to play with it.

Oh, and can you convince me that it'd be faster to get the Lantern before going to Tower of the Goddess? Again, to get the Lantern, I need to go to Endless Corridor, meaning I purposely walk past Sakit AND the place where that orb comes out to flood the tower. Although... hmm... combining this with what I just said above, this would allow me to fight Sakit with Castlevania + Mahjong Wizard and make the fight super fast...
Ok, maybe you've already convinced me. Smiley

I'll definitely have to time it first though...

Yeah, Diviner Sensation and heatproof case (and maybe waterproof?) I'm definitely getting earlier. Castlevania + Mahjong Wizard I'm a little mixed on, though, because I can't actually think of any bosses/sub-bosses that I can beat faster with the Mace than with the Knife + Video Hustler + Break Shot, so it may end up being a waste. The ONLY one I can think of is Sakit, but that would require a strange route that would take me right PAST Sakit to go through the Endless Corridor first! (Since I need the Fairies to get Castlevania...) So it's probably not worth it.

And holy crap I COMPLETELY forgot about the Seal of El Giza + Maze of Galious combo! Good catch! Unfortunately this one can't be used until VERY late, since I can't get Maze of Galious until I have the Magatama Jewel. Actually... that's around the same time I'd be getting the Bracelet, haha. So there you go.
...It's hard to say how much time that combo will save, though, now that I think about it. A few of the really fast coins are in the back side, so I'd have to equip Antarctic Adventure + Comic Bakery, teleport, then equip Seal of El Giza + Maze of Galious, get the coin, then go back... etc. So it might only have a limited usage. Darn it... I'll have to play with it.

Oh, and can you convince me that it'd be faster to get the Lantern before going to Tower of the Goddess? Again, to get the Lantern, I need to go to Endless Corridor, meaning I purposely walk past Sakit AND the place where that orb comes out to flood the tower. Although... hmm... combining this with what I just said above, this would allow me to fight Sakit with Castlevania + Mahjong Wizard and make the fight super fast...
Ok, maybe you've already convinced me. :) I'll definitely have to time it first though...

BlueGlass

Edit history:

BlueGlass: 2011-04-12 12:33:58 am

BlueGlass: 2011-04-12 12:09:00 am

2011-04-12 12:07:30 am

Yep yep yep!

I don't see where you'd need waterproof case, as the only time you'd even possibly need to teleport out of water is after flooding Sun Temple. And I'd say go to Endless Corridor right after hitting the Extinction Chamber grail point. It has some quick coins and the 100 coin pot on the bottom floor, so the sooner you can start farming, the better. Then also delay Bahamut until you have Diviner Sensation+Q-bert, so you can buy Castlevania on your way up to him and never need to return to that part of the area.

And Maze of Galious doesn't require the Magatama, typing YOMAR works anyway. You don't even need to read the tablet. So you should grab that as soon as you have spears.

Fighting Sakit with Castlevania+Mahjong is fun, you can kill him well before he punches.

edit: that combo is also the best way to take out the flying turtle things in Tower of the Goddess.

edit2: 1225 coins are needed for the random things that can be gotten whenever (useless roms, scripture, detector, waterproof case, ammunition) Just putting that statistic out there for consideration.

I don't see where you'd need waterproof case, as the only time you'd even possibly need to teleport out of water is after flooding Sun Temple.  And I'd say go to Endless Corridor right after hitting the Extinction Chamber grail point.  It has some quick coins and the 100 coin pot on the bottom floor, so the sooner you can start farming, the better.  Then also delay Bahamut until you have Diviner Sensation+Q-bert, so you can buy Castlevania on your way up to him and never need to return to that part of the area.

And Maze of Galious doesn't require the Magatama, typing YOMAR works anyway.  You don't even need to read the tablet.  So you should grab that as soon as you have spears.

Fighting Sakit with Castlevania+Mahjong is fun, you can kill him well before he punches.

edit: that combo is also the best way to take out the flying turtle things in Tower of the Goddess.

edit2: 1225 coins are needed for the random things that can be gotten whenever (useless roms, scripture, detector, waterproof case, ammunition)  Just putting that statistic out there for consideration.

Anonymous52555

Edit history:

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-12 06:24:22 am

2011-04-12 06:03:27 am

Metroidvanias are God Tier

ok well first off I am glad I am not the only one getting the 200 coin missing glitch. I re downloaded the Japanese version put it in capability mode and hopefully it works.

Second timer works only if you have saved one time. He saved like twice in his run if I remember.

Also you know that room with the flying battle towers(Vimana) in the right tower of the goddess. Well if you have the lamp of time going you can just jump through bullets and enemies so you don't have to spend time killing the Vimanas. Except in the second room where you have to kill them to get the airplane model.

BlueGlass

2011-04-12 06:33:26 am

Yep yep yep!

Yeah, I know you can go right through them in the first room. I was referring to the airplane model room.

Quick question, do you know what the trigger is to remove the statues on Tower of the Goddess? I'd assume it's the orb in Giant's Mausoleum, but the wiki lists it as picking up the airplane model. If that were true, it would be useful for your low%, since you could climb the tower for bombs your first visit.

And the fact that we're all three getting the missing coin glitch means it can't be my computer, so I wonder what the cause is. Do either of you also have the missing warp in Confusion Gate?

Anonymous52555

Edit history:

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-12 06:51:11 am

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-12 06:50:05 am

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-12 06:50:04 am

2011-04-12 06:47:20 am

Metroidvanias are God Tier

There is a tablet that says the goddesses will dissapear when you get the golden wings, golden wings meaning air plane model. I'm not having any other problems with the game except for the missing 200 coin pot.

The orb lets the water flow, nothing else

Also TheMaxican. Make sure you pick up A1 spirit before getting the air plane model for obvious reasons.

BlueGlass

Edit history:

BlueGlass: 2011-04-12 07:02:25 am

2011-04-12 07:01:21 am

Yep yep yep!

Okay, so it is the airplane model, awesome. And come to think of it, that would mean 100% too (with the route I came up with at least) could climb the tower first time. Just segment to recharge the time lamp after hitting the grail point.

I think sometime today I'll play through the game up to the 200 coin pot using Jman's route, just to see if maybe the coins are going missing because of something we're doing, some trigger that makes them not show up.

Anonymous52555

Edit history:

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-12 07:43:24 am

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-12 07:40:23 am

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-12 07:32:39 am

2011-04-12 07:32:06 am

Metroidvanias are God Tier

Well it is showing up for me now. Try and make sure you have the original Japanese version. And if you do already have it, redownload it. And maybe run it in capability mode because it might be windows 7 or vista causing it.

Edit: Ok so segment 4 is just going to be ellmac. My plan for segment 5 is get the axe, the ice cape, then go and get the grapple claw and the life seal, then go back for the serpent staff, save at the surface
Segment 6, get the feather 20 weights and 200 coin pot, save
Segment 7, Get the spears
Segment 8, First half of the confusion gate
Segment 9, Kill Amphis
Segment 10, Second half of confusion gate plus shu kill

Thats what I have from there.

BlueGlass

2011-04-12 07:43:49 am

Yep yep yep!

I have Windows XP. Maybe the missing coins is just random, which would be really terrible if it popped up in one of Jman's runs.

Wouldn't it be better to do Confusion Gate 1 together with Moon Temple? Plus it's a much shorter path to the Moon Temple entrance from Ellmac than the grail point.

Anonymous52555

Edit history:

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-12 08:33:00 am

2011-04-12 07:47:43 am

Metroidvanias are God Tier

It's actually about the same, climbing the ladder takes a while. But sure I will combine confusion gate 1 and the moon temple.

Edit: Alright for spears, I need to pick up 3 sets of spears before shu, I found 2 boxes of them but I need another one that isn't that far out of the way.

BlueGlass

2011-04-12 08:41:35 am

Yep yep yep!

Tower of Ruin, the room to the right of the chanting room, I'm pretty sure one of the boxes has spears, plus you can fall down and be right next to your third spear box. And if it turns out you need yet another box later on, the one in the ankh jewel room is about a 10 second detour on the way to that one.

You didn't say this, but I assume you're fighting Sakit and entering the Graveyard through the Mausoleum?

Anonymous52555

2011-04-12 08:47:35 am

Metroidvanias are God Tier

No its too much of a detour, I'm going to fight sakit on my way into the endless corridor.

Also here is my new route
Segment 5, axe, ice cape, confusion gate 1
Segment 6, Grapple claw, Life seal, Amphis
Segment 7, Serpent Staff, Spears
Segment 8, Confusion gate 2, endless key
Segment 9, Viy

BlueGlass

2011-04-12 08:58:00 am

Yep yep yep!

That's what I meant. Remember that once you hit the grail point you can warp back there anytime, and I don't see how the Sakit fight would be any faster in a low% once you have the feather. It's a pretty long walk from the Serpent staf fall the way through the Graveyard, and most of it can be cut out by going through the door left of the Mausoleum grail point. Plus having the feather will make getting spears the slightest bit faster.

Anonymous52555

2011-04-12 09:02:28 am

Metroidvanias are God Tier

Alright I see your point. I'll go fight sakit.

BlueGlass

2011-04-12 09:13:13 am

Yep yep yep!

Glad I could be helpful.