La-Mulana

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-09-07 09:48:33 am

2013-09-07 09:38:00 am

The original, since 2003.

I think the only way to keep it from doing the atack at all is to damage it enough so that it skips from the first attack to the third one. I'm not sure if there's a surefire way to avoid Mother doing the attack altogether though. Mother keeps the last three attacks of the bosses in her queue and tends to use them at random except when a new boss icon appears. I've found that each time it gains a new attack (Ellmac's for example), that will be the next attack that Mother will do after she finishes her current attack.

So the only way to really avoid it is to hit her a couple times when she does Amphis' attack, then spam flail whip on her next Amphis attack until the Ellmac icon appears. Hopefully she'd do that, then another Amphis attack, giving you enough time to advance her to Bahamut. You still have to get her to the Viy icon though, after that she won't do the Ellmac attack anymore because the AI only keeps the last three attacks. (Exception: At the end when Mother's Icon appears, she forgets Palenque's attack, opting to keep the Viy Laser)

If it sounds complex and ridiculously luck-based, that's because it is. And even then she may do a Sakit attack anyways when she hits that icon.

I think the only way to keep it from doing the atack at all is to damage it enough so that it skips from the first attack to the third one.   I'm not sure if there's a surefire way to avoid Mother doing the attack altogether though.  Mother keeps the last three attacks of the bosses in her queue and tends to use them at random except when a new boss icon appears. I've found that each time it gains a new attack (Ellmac's for example), that will be the next attack that Mother will do after she finishes her current attack.

So the only way to really avoid it is to hit her a couple times when she does Amphis' attack, then spam flail whip on her next Amphis attack until the Ellmac icon appears. Hopefully she'd do that, then another Amphis attack, giving you enough time  to advance her to Bahamut. You still have to get her to the Viy icon though, after that she won't do the Ellmac attack anymore because the AI only keeps the last three attacks.  (Exception: At the end when Mother's Icon appears, she forgets Palenque's attack, opting to keep the Viy Laser)

If it sounds complex and ridiculously luck-based, that's because it is. And even then she may do a Sakit attack anyways when she hits that icon.

SneakyCanuck

2013-09-12 12:18:59 pm

So I've developed this method for killing Tiamat and unless I'm mistaken I'm pretty sure this is strats.

Sorry about the quality, my internet can't handle streaming much better than that.

Traysandor

2013-09-12 06:28:37 pm

The original, since 2003.

I didn't know you could stand on Tiamat's shoulder like that! That's... ridiculously faster than any previous strategy I had for her. (Which was just double jump with Axe and use Flares.) Needless to say, this one's going into my Any% Steam Guide as soon as I get a chance to edit it.

..Though the Mother fight still crashes wasn't fixed even AFTER i went and updated my graphics card. X.X;

SneakyCanuck

2013-09-12 09:15:33 pm

I originally thought she only had shoulders during her first phase but I was messing around with bombs and whatnot and randomly found that she temporarily gains shoulders after the tidal wave.

For the first phase you need to be standing on the very edge of the platform for the bomb to boost you onto her shoulder but its much easier to do on phases two and three.

Also for phase three you want to bomb yourself kinda early like I did so that taking the hit from Tiamat knocks you back onto the lower platform.
Bombing yourself too late will mean her shoulders will disappear before your invincibility does and you'll fall straight down instead of getting knocked back and will have to resort to axe tactics.

Traysandor

2013-09-14 09:35:23 am

The original, since 2003.

I really like that Tiamat Quick kill method still. I've updated both my Speedrunning Steam guide and a link to the video on the Remake Wiki (with full credit to you of course) to reflect the new strategy you found.

HiddenDistance

Edit history:

HiddenDistance: 2013-09-15 02:31:08 pm

2013-09-14 11:15:59 am

Nice! I'll have to try it out & then give it a shot incorporating it into a run, that is, if I can get Sakit to stop shooting his laser ball at me 7 times in a row. ... What a jerk.

Update:

Well, I did a run yesterday (which sucked) and practiced your new Tiamat strat (props!) that you demonstrated quite a bit. The phase 3 is the real kicker. Maybe I have to work on my timing or positioning, but sometimes when she damages me off the shoulder I fall straight down/forward with the damage, and then she removes the shoulder at the same time, so I just fall. I do slightly more damage up front with a couple of extra flare hits, but I've had some difficulty finishing her off before she does the laser attack. That said, after that she's done anyway & it's a much *much* quicker fight overall, I just have to work on that phase 3.

The run I did today was much better; I posted a 1:41:45. I'm beginning to think a sub 1:40 run is possible, but for a single segment run you'd need some really good patterns...

Nice!  I'll have to try it out & then give it a shot incorporating it into a run, that is, if I can get Sakit to stop shooting his laser ball at me 7 times in a row.  ...  What a jerk.

Update:

Well, I did a run yesterday (which sucked) and practiced your new Tiamat strat (props!) that you demonstrated quite a bit.  The phase 3 is the real kicker.  Maybe I have to work on my timing or positioning, but sometimes when she damages me off the shoulder I fall straight down/forward with the damage, and then she removes the shoulder at the same time, so I just fall.  I do slightly more damage up front with a couple of extra flare hits, but I've had some difficulty finishing her off before she does the laser attack.  That said, after that she's done anyway & it's a much *much* quicker fight overall, I just have to work on that phase 3.

The run I did today was much better; I posted a 1:41:45.  I'm beginning to think a sub 1:40 run is possible, but for a single segment run you'd need some really good patterns...

SneakyCanuck

Edit history:

SneakyCanuck: 2013-09-20 09:25:38 am

2013-09-17 03:07:47 pm

If you fall straight down then you bombed too late.

Also do you stream at all Hidden? These times you're getting sound completely insane and I'd love to see what changes or small movement optimisations you undoubtedly have.

HiddenDistance

2013-09-20 06:49:36 pm

Not yet =\

I'm coming off the tail end of a pretty decent career in corporate IT, and deciding that being in a great place financially is just bad... for some reason... so I'm attending University to do something else. I've budgeted fairly stringently to not have to work much while attending classes so that I can focus on my academic work, but I have set aside some (future) money to both purchase some software & get a hard drive so I can record video too. I'm really itching to get to doing both of those, since when I've been able to get practice in they've been good runs. I'm sure you know how you can get a streak of bad luck with boss RNG or just make a critical mistake near the end of the game, or if it crashes during mother's boss fight (though thankfully, I don't experience much of that for some reason).

It's kind of hard to pick out what sort of things I do differently.. it feels like a lot of little things rather than big sweeping strategic changes from that 1:44:48 run on Youtube. Maybe I just execute really well; I dunno. Ah well, once I get my hands on that gear I'll make sure I post the details when I figure out streaming, or if I record a run and post it to Youtube or SDA.

Not yet =\

I'm coming off the tail end of a pretty decent career in corporate IT, and deciding that being in a great place financially is just bad... for some reason... so I'm attending University to do something else.  I've budgeted fairly stringently to not have to work much while attending classes so that I can focus on my academic work, but I have set aside some (future) money to both purchase some software & get a hard drive so I can record video too.  I'm really itching to get to doing both of those, since when I've been able to get practice in they've been good runs.  I'm sure you know how you can get a streak of bad luck with boss RNG or just make a critical mistake near the end of the game, or if it crashes during mother's boss fight (though thankfully, I don't experience much of that for some reason).

It's kind of hard to pick out what sort of things I do differently.. it feels like a lot of little things rather than big sweeping strategic changes from that 1:44:48 run on Youtube.  Maybe I just execute really well; I dunno.  Ah well, once I get my hands on that gear I'll make sure I post the details when I figure out streaming, or if I record a run and post it to Youtube or SDA.

Traysandor

2013-09-21 07:48:00 am

The original, since 2003.

Well the route overall has gone under a few minor improvements, yes. Probably saves somewhere between 30 seconds and a minute. The rest of the time savings pretty much boils down to execution and better boss fights We've ironed out most of the boss fights, though the RNG can still be a huge troll (I'm looking at you, Bahamut and Sakit), as well as the game in general.

On a side note, if you ever do get a run up and want someone to do audio commentary, I'd volunteer. It's pretty unlikely I'd be unable to do it live due to my own work schedule being a huge trollface, but you can always do it via Skype after the run and patch it in after (like how some of the other runs on the site have Audio Commentart on Track 2... but that's definitely not my area of expertise.)

Traysandor

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-09-21 10:36:45 am

Traysandor: 2013-09-21 10:26:17 am

2013-09-21 10:24:52 am

The original, since 2003.

BREAKING NEWS: A Sequel to La-Mulana Remake has just been officially announced! Head on over to http://newproject.nigoro.jp/en/ to check it out!

More Info: http://nigoro.jp/en/2013/09/la-mulana2/

Related News Article: http://www.usgamer.net/articles/tgs-an-exclusive-first-look-at-la-mulana-2

TheMaxican

2013-09-21 04:09:49 pm

Break through the final confusion

Haha, yeah, cool, I was just about to post on here if anyone had heard of this amazing news! Sounds like it's pretty fresh news then!

Yikes, at this point the sequel will probably be out before I even finish my run of the original first game! (FYI: no new news on that, other than Segment 29 is NOT being nice to me at all, and my personal life keeps getting in the way of me giving this the attempts that I need to give it. I'm not giving up, though!)

Still, absolutely exciting news! Any mention of a release date anywhere (even a generic ballpark)? I'm not seeing it mentioned on any of the news links I've found...

Traysandor

2013-09-22 08:53:07 am

The original, since 2003.

TheMaxican: Nigoro themselves didn't announce anything other than that the game was in development, so no, no release date has been announced. Seems like they were still pretty early into development of the game, so an actual release of a sequel, so I'd be very surprised at this point if the sequel hits the gaming world any time before 2015. That said, I'd definitely play a sequel to this game. The Remake is already my #2 game on Steam in terms of hours played.

HiddenDistance

2013-09-23 01:11:06 am

Well, you know Traysandor - Ye, the eighth child, shall be destroyed in 2015.

If that winds up being the release year for the sequel, I think I'll have to shower Nigoro with love letters.

TheMaxican

2013-09-23 01:33:45 am

Break through the final confusion

Lol, that's a VERY good point, HiddenDistance... Smiley

The first game took, what, 5 years to make from scratch? If they're recycling a lot of the engine code and focusing on new maps/puzzles/enemies... yeah, 2015 sounds pretty doable. So given all the random teases and hints they dropped in the remake, that was probably their plan all along! Smiley

mokesmoe

2013-09-25 05:51:23 am

Could the Gate of Time to Tower of the Goddess shortcut save any time? You could skip flooding the tower and/or the surface entrance (although a dark tower tower climb would be terrible)
You would need to get a key fairy though which would suck.

Traysandor

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-09-25 09:14:49 am

Traysandor: 2013-09-25 09:08:23 am

Traysandor: 2013-09-25 09:04:17 am

Traysandor: 2013-09-25 09:03:06 am

2013-09-25 09:00:19 am

The original, since 2003.

mokesmoe: The short answer is no in single segment any%, maybe in segmented any%, and yes in 100%. The main reason to go in there sooner than you're intended is to glitch into the Flail Whip Room to use on the early bosses and well you might as well solve some puzzles while you're there and grab the Grail Point. In any% however, Key Fairies are by far the hardest type of Fairy to luck manipulate (there's no known way to influence which Fairy you get unless you use the software combo, which is not something you pick up in Any%).

Also in the current route, only two Fairies are made use of as they are on the any% path. Technically there's three - you can summon a third fairy while doing the lower half of the Temple of Moon puzzles, but there's no need. You'll be near full HP, the Item fairy isn't much use in the Temple of Moon, Attack Fairy may cause you to get struck by lightning, so the only useful one would be the Key Fairy. The other two you really want Healing Fairies to appear to heal yourself. Specifically the fairy in the Gate of Illusion just before you fight Viy. If you don't get a healing fairy there you lose 20 seconds having to go to the Surface to refill your HP. Same with Bahamut, but that fairy is quick to reset if you get the wrong one.

So I tried gaiting Fairies 100 times without using any software just running back and forth between the rooms in the Spring in the Sky, and here were my results: Healing - 64, Attack - 20, Item - 15, Key - 1.
Second 100 Results: Healing - 56, Attack - 20-, Item - 20, Key 4

Still suggests to me that the odds of getting a Key Fairy are very low, less than 5% odds does not make a reliable Any% viable route, and still annoying to manipulate quickly in Segmented. And that you're more likely to get a Healing fairy than any of the other three fairy types combined.

mokesmoe: The short answer is no in single segment any%, maybe in segmented any%, and yes in 100%. The main reason to go in there sooner than you're intended is to glitch into the Flail Whip Room to use on the early bosses and well you might as well solve some puzzles while you're there and grab the Grail Point.  In any% however, Key Fairies are by far the hardest type of Fairy to luck manipulate (there's no known way to influence which Fairy you get unless you use the software combo, which is not something you pick up in Any%).

Also in the current route, only two Fairies are made use of as they are on the any% path. Technically there's three - you can summon a third fairy while doing the lower half of the Temple of Moon puzzles, but there's no need. You'll be near full HP, the Item fairy isn't much use in the Temple of Moon, Attack Fairy may cause you to get struck by lightning, so the only useful one would be the Key Fairy. The other two you really want Healing Fairies to appear to heal yourself. Specifically the fairy in the Gate of Illusion just before you fight Viy. If you don't get a healing fairy there you lose 20 seconds having to go to the Surface to refill your HP.  Same with Bahamut, but that fairy is quick to reset if you get the wrong one.

So I tried gaiting Fairies 100 times without using any software just running back and forth between the rooms in the Spring in the Sky, and here were my results:  Healing - 64, Attack - 20, Item - 15, Key - 1.
Second 100 Results: Healing - 56, Attack - 20-, Item - 20, Key 4

Still suggests to me that the odds of getting a Key Fairy are very low, less than 5% odds does not make a reliable Any% viable route, and still annoying to manipulate quickly in Segmented.  And that you're more likely to get a Healing fairy than any of the other three fairy types combined.

mokesmoe

Edit history:

mokesmoe: 2013-09-25 03:25:21 pm

2013-09-25 03:24:40 pm

The software to choose fairies is in the flooded part of the tower, so the fairy would have to be luck in any run.

It's a shame that the odds are so bad, since the route seems to work out so nicely. You skip flooding the tower and you can get the eye and grail in one trip with no backtracking. Going through the gate a second time for the Chamber of Birth is probably faster than swimming up even if the tower were flooded.

(And also the flail whip I guess?)

Traysandor

2013-09-26 07:28:54 am

The original, since 2003.

The software to choose fairies also requires the Time Lamp to solve the puzzle and I think 200 coins to actually buy the software. Considering that in Any% money is very tight as it is, you wouldn't really have any extra money to purchase anything like that until after you've killed Nuwa.. by which point the software is pretty much useless anyways. Even if you snagged extra money chests along the way, you still wouldn't gather up enough money for it to be particularly useful

HiddenDistance

2013-09-28 03:44:01 pm

Whew. Well, I'm getting closer. I screwed up a few things in the run: I forgot to get a particular treasure chest at the right time to support buying some extra grenades, I seemed a bit scattered in one or two places.. forgot what sub item I needed equipped or wasted a bunch of caltrops. That did mean at the end of the game I had like.. 600 bucks, so I spent some of it on a few flares, and then 400 on some extra pistol ammo right before the final trek to mother. The boss fights were mixed. I had three fireball rounds with Bahamut, Sakit shot at me twice and wandered around a bunch, and Ellmac was admittedly an unmitigated disaster; I went three rounds with Viy too. The bright side was that I two cycled Baphomet's second form, and Tiamat's fight went off without a hitch.

In the last battle I used the chakram strategy on phase 4 (which I suck at since I've never really practiced it and it didn't go super well), and since I've never incorporated pistol use on mother in a speed run, I was floundering a bit during the last phase while using it.

That said, I got my best escape time (3:17:xx remaining on the clock) and definitely smashed my personal bests for in game time (and finally started using a real-time clock as well). I think I'm going to practice the chakram strategy more, and try doing a bunch of fights with mother using that extra pistol ammo to see if I can manage some decent gains there.
http://i.imgur.com/bjpL6Jc.png

Whew.  Well, I'm getting closer.  I screwed up a few things in the run: I forgot to get a particular treasure chest at the right time to support buying some extra grenades, I seemed a bit scattered in one or two places.. forgot what sub item I needed equipped or wasted a bunch of caltrops.  That did mean at the end of the game I had like.. 600 bucks, so I spent some of it on a few flares, and then 400 on some extra pistol ammo right before the final trek to mother.  The boss fights were mixed.  I had three fireball rounds with Bahamut, Sakit shot at me twice and wandered around a bunch, and Ellmac was admittedly an unmitigated disaster; I went three rounds with Viy too.  The bright side was that I two cycled Baphomet's second form, and Tiamat's fight went off without a hitch.

In the last battle I used the chakram strategy on phase 4 (which I suck at since I've never really practiced it and it didn't go super well), and since I've never incorporated pistol use on mother in a speed run, I was floundering a bit during the last phase while using it.

That said, I got my best escape time (3:17:xx remaining on the clock) and definitely smashed my personal bests for in game time (and finally started using a real-time clock as well).  I think I'm going to practice the chakram strategy more, and try doing a bunch of fights with mother using that extra pistol ammo to see if I can manage some decent gains there.
http://i.imgur.com/bjpL6Jc.png

Traysandor

2013-09-29 07:58:10 am

The original, since 2003.

Awesome! Looks like you have everything down. All you need to break 1:40 now is some better Guardian fights and you're golden.

A thought though, for the final shopping trip to the Tower of Ruin, though. You have to buy torude there, but you can also purchase one set of Bombs if you like (110 Coins), then throw the rest of the money away on Flares, as you don't need the remaining money as long as you have enough Weights to finish the game

The Chakram strategy on Mother's 4th form isn't too particularly hard per say, I usually do take a hit but it was still several seconds faster than having the thing being chased off screen and waste time.

HiddenDistance

2013-09-29 10:12:08 am

I was thinking about it as well - I screwed up the bat fall for the sacred orb chest in the temple of the sun & had to wait probably more then 35 seconds for them to come to me down below. Normally I'd auto-reset on that since it's so early in the game and costs so much time, but I wanted to set some splits for Llanfair so I think a 1:39 time is definitely within reach.

I forgot the Torude shop even sold bombs lol. Eh, you know how you get blinders sometimes. Even so, I'd like to practice some other boss fighting strats to see how I do, and if I can consistently get better times using them. It was quite noticeable from the Tiamat fight though, since you don't use as many flares, you don't need to buy that many so buying another round of pistol ammo doesn't really take much extra time other then going to the surface to pick it up.

Traysandor

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-09-29 10:49:08 pm

2013-09-29 10:46:53 pm

The original, since 2003.

Flares are pretty useless for the most part anyways (They do 1 damage, 2 with the Ring.. big time nerf versus the original, plus the HP for most of the bosses was upped too). Sure, you throw some during the Ellmac fight, they're required for a puzzle in the Twin Labyrinths. You can get 10 extra on your initial climb during the first climb of the Tower of the Goddess. (I don't think there are any other Flares pots in the entire game, not to my knowledge anyways.) but the rest can pretty much be thrown away in the Tiamat and Mother fights for a few free potshots.

Curious, what exactly are you using the extra round of Pistol ammo for? I'm assuming it's for the Mother fight, but I'm not sure exactly when you'd use it If you have about 600 coins remaining then yeah pistol ammo is possible sure. I suppose the time cost would be pretty much negated (versus the next fastest method which would be using the Chakram kill method)

As for the second form of Mother, you would optimally want to have 6 Flares and one Chakram remaining (unless you hit her with weapon attacks too) to take that form out with. I think it's possible to bait her doing the swooping attack (where she can be hit with Chakram and Weapons instead of just Flares) but I'd need to look into it more.

Flares are pretty useless for the most part anyways (They do 1 damage, 2 with the Ring.. big time nerf versus the original, plus the HP for most of the bosses was upped too). Sure, you throw some during the Ellmac fight, they're required for a puzzle in the Twin Labyrinths.  You can get 10 extra on your initial climb during the first climb of the Tower of the Goddess. (I don't think there are any other Flares pots in the entire game, not to my knowledge anyways.) but the rest can pretty much be thrown away in the Tiamat and Mother fights for a few free potshots.

Curious, what exactly are you using the extra round of Pistol ammo for?  I'm assuming it's for the Mother fight, but I'm not sure exactly when you'd use it If you have about 600 coins remaining then yeah pistol ammo is possible sure. I suppose the time cost would be pretty much negated (versus the next fastest method which would be using the Chakram kill method)

As for the second form of Mother, you would optimally want to have 6 Flares and one Chakram remaining (unless you hit her with weapon attacks too) to take that form out with.  I think it's possible to bait her doing the swooping attack (where she can be hit with Chakram and Weapons instead of just Flares) but I'd need to look into it more.

HiddenDistance

Edit history:

HiddenDistance: 2013-09-30 12:18:00 am

2013-09-30 12:17:19 am

Yeah, it's a good point. I mean, I'd still have more flares then I would need if I spent 110 of that on bombs instead. I've only used that pistol ammo in the mother fight that one time during the run, and that was my first go at it so it was really sloppy.

Phase 1, definitely not. Phase 2... Maybe? Can't hit her in Phase 3 with the pistol I wouldn't think.. phase 4 is quick enough and easy enough with the other options, so the only spot I would even consider would be Phase 5.

In that last run I did, I stupidly took a Viy blast to the face while I was making an unkempt effort to unload the rest of the ammo before she became more challenging to hit when she starts moving around super fast. After some marginal practice with it though, front-loading all the damage at the beginning of the fight seems like the best option. The gains in time aren't enormous, in fact, it might only save you about as much time as it actually takes to buy the pistol ammo. The upside however, is that it burns through her first couple forms and potentially skips some of the crash inducing parts of the fight. She still gets off a shot or two using Sakit's attack, but perhaps the less of that she does, the better. Even if it's a straight time trade off, I'm not entirely certain how to evaluate the risk/reward of not having the run abruptly end because everything went ass over tea-kettle.

I do seem to experience less of that crashing then everyone else so it might encourage me not to bother, but maybe I've just been getting lucky with it. I can't really think of other ways to spend that kind of money though. Most of it comes from the dimensional corridor mini-boss marathon, and at that point, what do you need to do? Kill Nuwa, which you do with the time lamp.. chant mantras.. defeat mother. I don't *have* to pick it up from the sub-bosses, but there's a nagging feeling in the back of my head that finding a place for those resources instead of squandering them would be a good idea. Maybe I'll play around with the different forms. Putting her down in one swoop on the second form would be nice, especially if she just stays up there to eat flares all day long. If we could manipulate that pattern...

Yeah, it's a good point.  I mean, I'd still have more flares then I would need if I spent 110 of that on bombs instead.  I've only used that pistol ammo in the mother fight that one time during the run, and that was my first go at it so it was really sloppy.

Phase 1, definitely not. Phase 2... Maybe?  Can't hit her in Phase 3 with the pistol I wouldn't think.. phase 4 is quick enough and easy enough with the other options, so the only spot I would even consider would be Phase 5.

In that last run I did, I stupidly took a Viy blast to the face while I was making an unkempt effort to unload the rest of the ammo before she became more challenging to hit when she starts moving around super fast.  After some marginal practice with it though, front-loading all the damage at the beginning of the fight seems like the best option.  The gains in time aren't enormous, in fact, it might only save you about as much time as it actually takes to buy the pistol ammo.  The upside however, is that it burns through her first couple forms and potentially skips some of the crash inducing parts of the fight.  She still gets off a shot or two using Sakit's attack, but perhaps the less of that she does, the better.  Even if it's a straight time trade off, I'm not entirely certain how to evaluate the risk/reward of not having the run abruptly end because everything went ass over tea-kettle.

I do seem to experience less of that crashing then everyone else so it might encourage me not to bother, but maybe I've just been getting lucky with it.  I can't really think of other ways to spend that kind of money though.  Most of it comes from the dimensional corridor mini-boss marathon, and at that point, what do you need to do?  Kill Nuwa, which you do with the time lamp.. chant mantras.. defeat mother.  I don't *have* to pick it up from the sub-bosses, but there's a nagging feeling in the back of my head that finding a place for those resources instead of squandering them would be a good idea.  Maybe I'll play around with the different forms.  Putting her down in one swoop on the second form would be nice, especially if she just stays up there to eat flares all day long.  If we could manipulate that pattern...

Traysandor

2013-09-30 09:45:28 am

The original, since 2003.

It's always better to have the extra coins handy, especially if it doesn't cost any time to pick them up, then you might as well. Flares in the Mother fight are more for the "Well, you can't hit her with anything else" factor than actually doing useful damage. Well that and near the very end it helps negate the Tiamat attack she does leaving you pretty safe. Overall, you probably don't need more than 20-30 Flares for Mother period. I think the Flares are more bought because none of the other subweapons are particularly useful, and Pistol was deemed too expensive.

DeliciousPi

2013-09-30 05:44:55 pm

Pistol would definitely be useful in mother phase 2 if she uses her slam attack. It's rate of fire will be far faster than a chakram. I've experimented with manipulating that pattern, but I'm fairly sure it's entirely random, like Sakkit. An important thing to note in that form is that she's still vulnerable to melee and doesn't have much HP, so using the whip can be extremely worthwhile. I've never tried in a run due to the risk involved.

As far as the chakram strat for phase 4, I've never tried to pull it off without getting hit, since being inside the eye's hitbox makes it more consistent. It's not the eye you aim for, but the tentacles, since the chakram will only bounce from them. I always throw to the right, since the right-most tentacle is the most vertically centered. The pistol does make this form derp-mode easy though, and saves you from getting hit.

If it turns out the money can't be spent to improve your time, I'd recommend not picking it up at that point. (It usually takes a few seconds to grab Nuwa's loot, for example).

Pistol would definitely be useful in mother phase 2 if she uses her slam attack. It's rate of fire will be far faster than a chakram. I've experimented with manipulating that pattern, but I'm fairly sure it's entirely random, like Sakkit. An important thing to note in that form is that she's still vulnerable to melee and doesn't have much HP, so using the whip can be extremely worthwhile. I've never tried in a run due to the risk involved.

As far as the chakram strat for phase 4, I've never tried to pull it off without getting hit, since being inside the eye's hitbox makes it more consistent. It's not the eye you aim for, but the tentacles, since the chakram will only bounce from them. I always throw to the right, since the right-most tentacle is the most vertically centered. The pistol does make this form derp-mode easy though, and saves you from getting hit.

If it turns out the money can't be spent to improve your time, I'd recommend not picking it up at that point. (It usually takes a few seconds to grab Nuwa's loot, for example).