La-Mulana

Traysandor

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-07-03 06:59:18 pm

2013-06-26 10:49:23 am

The original, since 2003.

(Original Post about La-Mulana being on sale removed due to sale ending. Please delete this post)

Traysandor

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-07-04 08:12:55 pm

2013-07-03 07:03:55 pm

The original, since 2003.

So today, being bored and having nothing particularly better to do, I went out and created a Speedrunning Guide for La-Mulana Steam Version (1.5.5.x)

It is somewhat based on the Any% posted on the Wiki, but has been modified a bit. The main difference is that the flail whip room glitch has been fixed, and the guide takes that into account and formats a new route (you open up that room the way it was intended by speaking to the Sage). Most of the rest of the route is the same, though I did make a few tweaks here and there.

If anyone has any feedback,I'd appreciate it: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=157495618

EDIT: This just in, I've achieved a new Personal Best on the Steam version. Sub-1:55 style!

1 hour 54 minutes 41 seconds is the new time for the game <3

kwinse

2013-07-04 09:37:36 pm

Oh, forgot to say, thanks for telling me about the sale, I never got a 'this wishlist item is on sale' email, so I probably would have missed it entirely.

Can't help much with route planning and whatnot, but just wanted to give my support to all the runners here. It's nice to see people working at this hell of a game.

Sakako

2013-07-05 06:18:00 am

Traysandor, that run looks pretty good to me. I think I might have to learn it, now that university's all finished and done with! Wink

Traysandor

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-07-06 11:45:55 pm

Traysandor: 2013-07-06 11:44:15 pm

Traysandor: 2013-07-06 11:42:53 pm

Traysandor: 2013-07-06 11:39:46 pm

Traysandor: 2013-07-05 06:45:40 pm

Traysandor: 2013-07-05 06:43:58 pm

Traysandor: 2013-07-05 06:36:19 pm

Traysandor: 2013-07-05 11:57:33 am

Traysandor: 2013-07-05 11:56:29 am

2013-07-05 11:52:59 am

The original, since 2003.

I did make an update to the Steam walkthrough this afternoon (I found a small puzzle in the Graveyard of the Giants hasn't been inclded). Mostly adding a few more checkpoints, so that you can keep track of your progress throughout the game. I've also posted my own personal best times on the walkthrough now.

If you haven't tried running before, try out a few segmants casually before you give the whole thing a green light.

Segments that generally caused the most deaths/resets for me:

The first 5 minutes. You'd think getting those weight drops and having everything go well would be easy...
Doing everything in the Temple of the Sun and Moon (Specifically, getting the flying bat kill, but there's other things that can cause a reset too, and there's no save point until you hit the Moonlight Grail tablet.)
Spring in the Sky Trolling (getting knocked off one of the platforms on the way up is a reset)
Bahamut - I don't know why, but I always seem to die a time or three before he goes down.
Gate of Illusion Trolling (Lightning killed me a few times, yeah)
Viy - Yeah, that oversized eyeball is a pain in the ass.
Climbing the Tower of the Goddess the first time.
Between the Tower of the Goddess, getting to the Woman Statue (Without the Flail Whip, you have to use the Axe on Kamatchi to kill it and get the Bombs. He deals a lot of damage and that caused me to die a few times before I could reach the end of the Chamber of Birth.)
Baphomet - Specifically the second phase, you need to Caltrop boost a lot and use the witches to avoid taking damage from Baphomet. What sucks is that if you die, you lose several minutes trying to get back.
Surviving the first trip down to the Mother Shrine and having everything go well
Chamber of Birth, all those items that need to be equipped and used. Also if the Dance of Life doesn't register, resetting costs several minutes.
Dimensional Corridor, the Sub-Boss rush usually kills me a few times getting all the bosses down.
Mother, welll she's the final boss, of course you're going to die a few times.

If I can think of anything else, I'll post it later on.

On a side note, I'm beginning to form an exploratory quest to make 100% speedrun guide. But I wanted to know before I got too much farther into the run: Does getting all the Maps count toward 100% or are they not necessary (besides the one in the Shrine of the Mother)

Current 100% Run Notes:

So far the 100% run for the most part plays very similar to the Any% route for much of the first portion of the game up until about the Gate of Illusion. the two main things you have to pick up in 100% are the Rolling Shuriken on your first trip down the Mausoleum of Giants, and to pick up bunplus before hitting the Inferno Cavern Grail point. Most of the rest (specifically the shopping software) will have to wait for later in the game.

I tested out a segment where I went and finished Isis' Pendant quest early to unlock Fairies for the first trip up the Spring in the Sky. I wanted to test getting a Key Fairy to open the Guild/randc.exe shop while solving Spring in the Sky puzzles, but it turns out you need to come back. I unlocked the shop before fighting Bahamut [then warped, suicided, warped back, and got a healing fairy for the fight]

I did make an update to the Steam walkthrough this afternoon (I found a small puzzle in the Graveyard of the Giants hasn't been inclded). Mostly adding a few more checkpoints, so that you can keep track of your progress throughout the game.  I've also posted my own personal best times on the walkthrough now.

If you haven't tried running before, try out a few segmants casually before you give the whole thing a green light.

Segments that generally caused the most deaths/resets for me:

[hidden]The first 5 minutes. You'd think getting those weight drops and having everything go well would be easy...
Doing everything in the Temple of the Sun and Moon (Specifically, getting the flying bat kill, but there's other things that can cause a reset too, and there's no save point until you hit the Moonlight Grail tablet.)
Spring in the Sky Trolling (getting knocked off one of the platforms on the way up is a reset)
Bahamut - I don't know why, but I always seem to die a time or three before he goes down.
Gate of Illusion Trolling (Lightning killed me a few times, yeah)
Viy - Yeah, that oversized eyeball is a pain in the ass.
Climbing the Tower of the Goddess the first time.
Between the Tower of the Goddess, getting to the Woman Statue (Without the Flail Whip, you have to use the Axe on Kamatchi to kill it and get the Bombs. He deals a lot of damage and that caused me to die a few times before I could reach the end of the Chamber of Birth.)
Baphomet - Specifically the second phase, you need to Caltrop boost a lot and use the witches to avoid taking damage from Baphomet.  What sucks is that if you die, you lose several minutes trying to get back.
Surviving the first trip down to the Mother Shrine and having everything go well
Chamber of Birth, all those items that need to be equipped and used. Also if the Dance of Life doesn't register, resetting costs several minutes.
Dimensional Corridor, the Sub-Boss rush usually kills me a few times getting all the bosses down.
Mother, welll she's the final boss, of course you're going to die a few times.[/hidden]

If I can think of anything else, I'll post it later on.

On a side note, I'm beginning to form an exploratory quest to make 100% speedrun guide.  But I wanted to know before I got too much farther into the run:  Does getting all the Maps count toward 100% or are they not necessary (besides the one in the Shrine of the Mother)

Current 100% Run Notes:

[hidden]So far the 100% run for the most part plays very similar to the Any% route for much of the first portion of the game up until about the Gate of Illusion. the two main things you have to pick up in 100% are the Rolling Shuriken on your first trip down the Mausoleum of Giants, and to pick up bunplus before hitting the Inferno Cavern Grail point.  Most of the rest (specifically the shopping software) will have to wait for later in the game.

I tested out a segment where I went and finished Isis' Pendant quest early to unlock Fairies for the first trip up the Spring in the Sky. I wanted to test getting a Key Fairy to open the Guild/randc.exe shop while solving Spring in the Sky puzzles, but it turns out you need to come back. I unlocked the shop before fighting Bahamut [then warped, suicided, warped back, and got a healing fairy for the fight] [/hidden]

zem

Edit history:

zem: 2013-07-07 02:27:26 am

zem: 2013-07-07 01:32:14 am

2013-07-07 12:08:40 am

Quote from Traysandor:

On a side note, I'm beginning to form an exploratory quest to make 100% speedrun guide. But I wanted to know before I got too much farther into the run: Does getting all the Maps count toward 100% or are they not necessary (besides the one in the Shrine of the Mother)

100% includes maps in the original version, so I would expect them to be part of 100% for the remake.

edit: vvvv ah, so does that require the maps? I guess that’s Traysandor’s question? now I also want to know

BlueGlass

2013-07-07 01:14:45 am

Yep yep yep!

The current definition for remake 100% is having all characters show up during the end credits, since that covers everything and then some.

Traysandor

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-07-07 11:04:48 am

Traysandor: 2013-07-07 11:03:36 am

Traysandor: 2013-07-07 10:50:43 am

2013-07-07 10:48:13 am

The original, since 2003.

Oh, I suppose that would mean activating Hard Mode too, since a requirement for having all the characters to appear in the credits is to obliterate all the Bosses on Hard Mode.

Though in terms of actually activating it, you could either do it as soon as you enter the Mausoleum on the way down, or wait until you've collected everything and are ready for the first boss.

I'll have to write up a new route though if it includes everything. For now I'm running through on Normal just to get a feel of where the major things are. and I'll piece together bits and pieces along the way.

the only thing I'm not 100% sure on is getting all of the emails. I'm not sure on how that's doe because that's a requirement too. (most runners unequip xmailer and ignore it for the rest of the game.)

Edit: Also in exploring 100% I found a neat little thing that would help with Any% money issues: Just before entering Eden and doing the Gate of Illusion puzzles the room in the Temple of Moon you enter Eden from: there is a 100 coin chest in that room. You need to double jump and throw a Shuriken at the spikes. Especially useful if you get trolled and miss a coin pickup somewhere along the way and are short on buying move.exe.

Oh, I suppose that would mean activating Hard Mode too, since a requirement for having all the characters to appear in the credits is to obliterate all the Bosses on Hard Mode.

Though in terms of actually activating it, you could either do it as soon as you enter the Mausoleum on the way down, or wait until you've collected everything and are ready for the first boss.

I'll have to write up a new route though if it includes everything. For now I'm running through on Normal just to get a feel of where the major things are. and I'll piece together bits and pieces along the way.

the only thing I'm not 100% sure on is getting all of the emails. I'm not sure on how that's doe because that's a requirement too. (most runners unequip xmailer and ignore it for the rest of the game.)

Edit: Also in exploring 100% I found a neat little thing that would help with Any% money issues:  Just before entering Eden and doing the Gate of Illusion puzzles the room in the Temple of Moon you enter Eden from: there is a 100 coin chest in that room. You need to double jump and throw a Shuriken at the spikes. Especially useful if you get trolled and miss a coin pickup somewhere along the way and are short on buying move.exe.

BlueGlass

2013-07-07 12:29:07 pm

Yep yep yep!

Fortunately, you still receive the emails even with the software unequipped, so it's simply a matter of knowing the best triggers for the ones that aren't automatic. There was a bit of discussion on this a few pages back if you want to look. As for when to activate hard mode, I'd say make two trips to upper Mausoleum. The first trip gets the chest and the floor switch for the map. The second before your first Guardian fight, where you activate the tablet, get the map, then the rolling shuriken.

Anonymous52555

Edit history:

Anonymous52555: 2013-07-07 01:12:47 pm

2013-07-07 01:10:21 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

I posted a 100% route a while back: http://pastebin.com/GakAVXua
I do use wall glitches a few times in it.

I've been playing with it for a while but I haven't gotten a good run yet. I'll post it here when I get a semi decent one though.

Traysandor

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-07-07 01:32:36 pm

2013-07-07 01:28:30 pm

The original, since 2003.

Thanks for the link Anonymous. I'll give that a look when I have a chance. I know that the Flail Whip room glitch doesn't work, but the caltrops Anchor skip still does. I'll probably use that so that I can group the first half of the Gate of Illusion together, and just come back to turn in the Anchor.

Edit: Hm, after giving it a look, I can tell it's a start but is very very brief. Also doesn't include anything about completing Hell Temple. It'll need some extensive editing to get into a proper guide, but for now I'll copypaste and work on it for a while.

Anonymous52555

2013-07-07 01:46:36 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

It's a very barebones route that I came up with. It's mostly made for me for when I'm playing through it and I forget something.

Traysandor

2013-07-07 01:51:49 pm

The original, since 2003.

That's kind of what I did on my first few speedruns. I still keep Notepad open during any% attempts to make sure I stay on track. I'd like to test out the route for myself, but won't happen until late tonight or tomorrow (work reasons). I'll probably have to make some modifications to make it compatible with the current Steam version, though.

Traysandor

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-07-10 10:45:44 am

Traysandor: 2013-07-10 10:43:46 am

Traysandor: 2013-07-10 10:43:06 am

Traysandor: 2013-07-10 10:24:26 am

2013-07-10 10:11:27 am

The original, since 2003.

SUCCESS! I think I've figured out a way to include the MSX2 for those who want to buy it in an Any% Run:

- You collect two extra pots in the Guidance Gate (20)
- You hit the switch before heading to the Spring in the Sky. Come back later and solve part of Amphisbaena's Ankh puzzle and claim the two Coin chests instead of heading over to the other Ankh switch (60)
- Buy only up to 70-75 Weights instead of max (50)
- Claim the Coin Chest in the Inferno Cavern when you go to hit the second Viy Ankh switch (30)
- Open the Temple of Moon chest before entering Eden (100)

= 20 + 60 + 50 + 30 + 100 = 260! Just enough to work the MSX2 into the Run!

If you collect the coin chests in order, you should be able to scrap up enough to purchase MSX2 as you're solving the Tower of the Goddess puzzles. Specifically when you beat Vimani should get you enough to push you over 250.

Notes: I tried a lot to see if I could get the Coin Chest in the Temple of the Sun while waiting to impregnate the Woman Statue, but I think the wall has been patched to require 5 Bombs now instead of 3. I tried it several times and had to give up on it since I need one bomb for the run.

You will need to claim all these chests (in addition to claiming the ones already listed) in order to make it work, and you will also need to get all these chests before heading over to the Twin Labyrinths. (Otherwise you won't have enough money to buy the Lamp of Time)

Also to help offset the coin cost, you can furthermore pick up another Coin Chest (50) just before fighting Baphomet too [this can help with buying the Weights you missed earlier. You'll have enough to get through Baphomet but you'll be running out soon]

Instead of buying Chakrams when you reach the Lamp of Time shop, you will need to manipulate Chakram drops from the enemies in the Tower of the Goddess. Fortunately this isn't too difficult, and you will be going through the area numerous times during the run anyways, so you should be able to pick up 2-4 extra Chakrams at some point.

SUCCESS!  I think I've figured out a way to include the MSX2 for those who want to buy it in an Any% Run:

- You collect two extra pots in the Guidance Gate (20)
- You hit the switch before heading to the Spring in the Sky. Come back later and solve part of Amphisbaena's Ankh puzzle and claim the two Coin chests instead of heading over to the other Ankh switch (60)
- Buy only up to 70-75 Weights instead of max (50)
- Claim the Coin Chest in the Inferno Cavern when you go to hit the second Viy Ankh switch (30)
- Open the Temple of Moon chest before entering Eden (100)

= 20 + 60 + 50 + 30 + 100 = 260! Just enough to work the MSX2 into the Run!

If you collect the coin chests in order, you should be able to scrap up enough to purchase MSX2 as you're solving the Tower of the Goddess puzzles. Specifically when you beat Vimani should get you enough to push you over 250.

Notes:  I tried a lot to see if I could get the Coin Chest in the Temple of the Sun while waiting to impregnate the Woman Statue, but I think the wall has been patched to require 5 Bombs now instead of 3.  I tried it several times and had to give up on it since I need one bomb for the run.

You will need to claim all these chests (in addition to claiming the ones already listed) in order to make it work, and you will also need to get all these chests before heading over to the Twin Labyrinths. (Otherwise you won't have enough money to buy the Lamp of Time)

Also to help offset the coin cost, you can furthermore pick up another Coin Chest (50) just before fighting Baphomet too [this can help with buying the Weights you missed earlier. You'll have enough to get through Baphomet but you'll be running out soon]

Instead of buying Chakrams when you reach the Lamp of Time shop, you will need to manipulate Chakram drops from the enemies in the Tower of the Goddess. Fortunately this isn't too difficult, and you will be going through the area numerous times during the run anyways, so you should be able to pick up 2-4 extra Chakrams at some point.

Anonymous52555

2013-07-10 04:01:51 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

Getting the MSX2 seems like a waste of time though. Instead see if any of these new coin opportunities are faster than older coin gathering methods and replace them.

Traysandor

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-07-10 05:33:37 pm

Traysandor: 2013-07-10 05:27:40 pm

Traysandor: 2013-07-10 05:23:11 pm

Traysandor: 2013-07-10 05:16:35 pm

Traysandor: 2013-07-10 05:11:48 pm

Traysandor: 2013-07-10 05:09:31 pm

2013-07-10 05:01:31 pm

The original, since 2003.

If any of them are, it's most likely the 100 coin chest in the Temple of Moon, the 2x30 Chests in the Guidance Gate, or the 30 Coin chest in the Inferno Cavern. I'll look into it again though later on. I don't think grabbing the 50 coin chest in the Twin Labyrints helps too much, but I'll look at it again.

Edit: What I'd like to do now that I think about it is to make a table outlining everything that needs to be bought in the game (up until the Ankh Jewel, because you won't have any more money issues after then). Then go through the game and see exactly where those coins are coming from.

Also in getting MSX2 you pretty much have to get the 50 coin chest in the Twin Labyrinths order to buy enough weights and have enough for the Ankh Jewel too later on. Otherwise you'll run out of Weights in the Chamber of Birth doing the item use megaquest.

Also note, the jump to unlock the Coin chest in the Temple of Moon is not Single Segment friendly. If you miss the jump or get trolled by bats, it's a good minute (and 2 lost Weights) to go back around and try again. A safer alternative if you think you're going to be a little short on buying move.exe is to grab the Inferno cavern coin chest, as it costs the least amount of time to get.

If any of them are, it's most likely the 100 coin chest in the Temple of Moon, the 2x30 Chests in the Guidance Gate, or the 30 Coin chest in the Inferno Cavern.  I'll look into it again though later on.  I don't think grabbing the 50 coin chest in the Twin Labyrints helps too much, but I'll look at it again.

Edit:  What I'd like to do now that I think about it is to make a table outlining everything that needs to be bought in the game (up until the Ankh Jewel, because you won't have any more money issues after then). Then go through the game and see exactly where those coins are coming from.

Also in getting MSX2 you pretty much have to get the 50 coin chest in the Twin Labyrinths order to buy enough weights and have enough for the Ankh Jewel too later on. Otherwise you'll run out of Weights in the Chamber of Birth doing the item use megaquest.

Also note, the jump to unlock the Coin chest in the Temple of Moon is not Single Segment friendly. If you miss the jump or get trolled by bats, it's a good minute (and 2 lost Weights) to go back around and try again.  A safer alternative if you think you're going to be a little short on buying move.exe is to grab the Inferno cavern coin chest, as it costs the least amount of time to get.

Traysandor

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-07-12 05:12:03 pm

2013-07-12 05:11:49 pm

The original, since 2003.

Oh hey guys, me again. Guess what, La-Mulana is on SALE on Steam again! This time it's 50% off so you can now pick up and play for $7.49! It runs through July 22, as with all the other sales on Steam.

Traysandor

2013-07-17 07:40:35 pm

The original, since 2003.

I've done it! I've officially joined the few, the proud... The Sub-1:50ers!

Tonight Steam Version La-Mulana has cracked the 1 hour-50 minute mark!

With a time of 1 hour, 49 minutes, 58 seconds!

And a new Personal Best Escape time too! I hot-footed it out of the ruins in a mere 1:45.02 (And I had to PB that to make it out under 1 hour 50!)

Raggballe

2013-07-18 03:13:59 pm

Congrats!
Was it recorded? Would love to see it.

Traysandor

2013-07-18 06:23:29 pm

The original, since 2003.

I don't get recording things. Even on Steam, I thought there was a handy button or something... I did take screenshots though. Those are up on my Steam profile (under the name you see here)

paymentplan

2013-08-03 02:45:29 pm

So is it worth running the remake without the latest version? Or should I try to learn the route without that glitch?

Traysandor

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-08-04 07:39:03 am

2013-08-04 07:32:44 am

The original, since 2003.

It depends. If you can find an older version (before 1.4.x) when the Flail Whip Room glitch was fixed, then by all means run that. If you're on Steam, I posted a walkthrough for that version on the Steam community. The most notable difference is without the Flail Whip, you have to kill Kamatchi with the Axe instead. He's the one that guards the Bombs. And yeah, he's ridiculously overpowered and you'll probably die several times before you get through that section., especially the first few times you run the game Also, to get into the Flail Whip room, you have to do it the way it was intended, by talking to the Sage who unlocks the room for you.)

Without the Flail Whip glitch, I'd say that running the current version costs somewhere in the range of about an extra 30 seconds to a minute maybe. It's still very possible to beat the remake in under 1 hour 50 minutes (in-game timer). Heck, I posted a 1:49:58 and I still went back and saved another 90 seconds or so in better boss fights and small improvements.

The glitch that lets you skip the Anchor sidequest still works though, even in the most recent version Gotta love those Caltrops!

It depends. If you can find an older version (before 1.4.x) when the Flail Whip Room glitch was fixed, then by all means run that. If you're on Steam, I posted a walkthrough for that version on the Steam community.  The most notable difference is without the Flail Whip, you have to kill Kamatchi with the Axe instead. He's the one that guards the Bombs. And yeah, he's ridiculously overpowered and you'll probably die several times before you get through that section., especially the first few times you run the game Also, to get into the Flail Whip room, you have to do it the way it was intended, by talking to the Sage who unlocks the room for you.)

Without the Flail Whip glitch, I'd say that running the current version costs somewhere in the range of about an extra 30 seconds to a minute maybe. It's still very possible to beat the remake in under 1 hour 50 minutes (in-game timer).  Heck, I posted a 1:49:58 and I still went back and saved another 90 seconds or so in better boss fights and small improvements.

The glitch that lets you skip the Anchor sidequest still works though, even in the most recent version Gotta love those Caltrops!

Traysandor

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-08-08 12:30:39 pm

2013-08-08 11:00:05 am

The original, since 2003.

Sorry about the double post again, but I just found something incredibly amazing!

So I was messing around in Boss Rush trying to get the Beginner Endless Battle cleared for the first time. You know when you fight all the Guardians in a row plus Mother.

I got to Viy and took out the Spaulder powered Flail Whip. Got a good pattern when the eye popped out... AND KILLED VIY IN ONE CYCLE! I didn't even know this was possible with how much HP Viy has in the remake, but I found this completely by accident!

I don't think it would have any use in the Any% speedrun, but maybe you can use it in the 100% route with the Flail Whip glitch (though I'm sure Viy's health has been upped in Hard Mode making him impossible to kill in one cycle in 100% anyways)

Edit: First Boss Rush Clear! 9:28.78 is the time I set!

Anonymous52555

2013-08-08 02:53:51 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

Wouldn't work on 100% because hardmode

Traysandor

2013-08-08 06:10:40 pm

The original, since 2003.

I didn't think so. But still, the Flail Whip with Gauntlets is by far the weapon with the highest DPS in the game. (the Gun is probably second, but is too expensive for speedrunning.)

According to the Wiki, Viy has 80 HP, but no record on how much it would have in Hard Mode. My guess would probably be 120 or 160, maybe.