La-Mulana

BlueGlass

Edit history:

BlueGlass: 2011-04-25 11:26:19 pm

2011-04-25 11:17:23 pm

Yep yep yep!

The coins are still missing? Ugh, that's not good. Unfortunately, I have nothing to contribute on that front, as I haven't started a new game in forever.

On the other hand, my pot guide is now complete with the exception of Hell Temple, so hopefully that'll help you figure out what coins to get when. If you're willing, I'd also like to help with planning the run.

I will experiment some and see what I can figure out about the missing coins, as well.

edit: pot guide

http://www.gamefront.com/files/20265310/pots.txt

TheMaxican

2011-04-26 12:34:55 am

Break through the final confusion

Ah! Cool. I was actually just about to finish my own version of the pot guide. I'll be able to cross-check it and then we'll have the best pot guide ever!

And eh, you can get to Hell Temple if you find the time but otherwise don't worry about it, I have to practice it anyway. Smiley

Oh, and would you mind updating the La-Mulana wiki with your info? I figure it'd be good for everyone, not just SDA. Otherwise I'll probably just end up doing it at some point.

Anyway, on the 200 coins. Yeah, it's really weird. I really can't think of what it would be unless the designers did something really dumb like save it to the registry or something. Which is why I'm thinking it's some yet-unknown trigger...

And yeah, I'll definitely appreciate the planning help - you've helped quite a bit already! Smiley

I'm actually still getting my notes together, but I've barely started actually shaping together a route. I'm thinking the best way to progress is for me to get at least a rough draft of a route on here, and then we can discuss the crap out of that. Smiley

I warn you that this may not be for a while, but it's definitely going faster than I thought it would... with any luck it'll happen sometime in the next few weeks/months.

Oh, which reminds me. To help with the planning, I think it's time we finally unanimously agreed on an 100% definition.

It should be easy to see that it requires:
-All best-versions of Weapons and Sub-Weapons
-All items/equipment
-All MSX cartridges
-Hell Temple (or, more accurately, getting the Skimpy Suimsuit)

Arguably, I think it should also include ALL of the remaining optional items:
-All maps
-3 optional weapons/sub-weapons - Chain Whip, Buckler, and Silver Shield
-Fake Silver Shield

I actually really don't like the idea of Fake Silver Shield, because (a) it'll require LOTS of unnecessary, boring grinding, (b) it serves absolutely no purpose, and (c) it seems completely boring to viewer. At least the 3 optional items, maps, and ESPECIALLY Hell Temple will show off parts of the game to the viewer that would otherwise be missing, as well as add a level of interestingness to the route planning. The Fake Silver Shield doesn't add any of this at all - it's just more grinding.
That said, I HAVE to have an extra segment where I go back to the Ice Cavern to get the Map AND the Silver Shield, since there's no way I'd have the Katana on my first visit. Naturally, I can make this visit VERY late in the run. So because of that, running to the shop for the Fake Silver Shield won't be THAT boring... it MAY require a few extra griding segments though, but I figure those will be boring already...

As for the other guys:
-Maps: are actually pretty much in my way for the most part. Shouldn't require going TOO out of the way for them. It'll be more annoying for the verifiers than anything, because I'll never use Ruins RAM so they'll just have to "remember" that I got them. Actually... same with everything else on this list, actually. Smiley

-Chain Whip: will be gotten when I get the last dias for unlocking Viy's Ankh. Will show off some sweet wall kicks and a ridiculously easy miniboss fight.
-Buckler: is an extra 80 coins so it's not TOO bad. Also the added bonus that I can get it pretty much on any segment.
-Silver Shield: is a good candidate for when I come back for the Ice Cavern map.

Pretty much the only reservation I have against these items are what I said before - it seems like a lot of "similar" SDA runs don't include items like these. So I guess all I need is one of you guys to say, "actually, just look at run X, it gets items like these," and that'll be enough to put my mind at ease. Smiley

So yeah, I guess if I get enough approval of this, I'll post this on the 100%/low% Definitions thread. Anon, while I'm there I'll elaborate on the low% La-Mulana situation for you if you'd like. Smiley

Ah! Cool. I was actually just about to finish my own version of the pot guide. I'll be able to cross-check it and then we'll have the best pot guide ever!

And eh, you can get to Hell Temple if you find the time but otherwise don't worry about it, I have to practice it anyway. :)

Oh, and would you mind updating the La-Mulana wiki with your info? I figure it'd be good for everyone, not just SDA. Otherwise I'll probably just end up doing it at some point.

Anyway, on the 200 coins. Yeah, it's really weird. I really can't think of what it would be unless the designers did something really dumb like save it to the registry or something. Which is why I'm thinking it's some yet-unknown trigger...

And yeah, I'll definitely appreciate the planning help - you've helped quite a bit already! :) I'm actually still getting my notes together, but I've barely started actually shaping together a route. I'm thinking the best way to progress is for me to get at least a rough draft of a route on here, and then we can discuss the crap out of that. :) I warn you that this may not be for a while, but it's definitely going faster than I thought it would... with any luck it'll happen sometime in the next few weeks/months.

Oh, which reminds me. To help with the planning, I think it's time we finally unanimously agreed on an 100% definition.

It should be easy to see that it requires:
-All best-versions of Weapons and Sub-Weapons
-All items/equipment
-All MSX cartridges
-Hell Temple (or, more accurately, getting the Skimpy Suimsuit)

Arguably, I think it should also include ALL of the remaining optional items:
-All maps
-3 optional weapons/sub-weapons - Chain Whip, Buckler, and Silver Shield
-Fake Silver Shield

I actually really don't like the idea of Fake Silver Shield, because (a) it'll require LOTS of unnecessary, boring grinding, (b) it serves absolutely no purpose, and (c) it seems completely boring to viewer. At least the 3 optional items, maps, and ESPECIALLY Hell Temple will show off parts of the game to the viewer that would otherwise be missing, as well as add a level of interestingness to the route planning. The Fake Silver Shield doesn't add any of this at all - it's just more grinding.
That said, I HAVE to have an extra segment where I go back to the Ice Cavern to get the Map AND the Silver Shield, since there's no way I'd have the Katana on my first visit. Naturally, I can make this visit VERY late in the run. So because of that, running to the shop for the Fake Silver Shield won't be THAT boring... it MAY require a few extra griding segments though, but I figure those will be boring already...

As for the other guys:
-Maps: are actually pretty much in my way for the most part. Shouldn't require going TOO out of the way for them. It'll be more annoying for the verifiers than anything, because I'll never use Ruins RAM so they'll just have to "remember" that I got them. Actually... same with everything else on this list, actually. :)
-Chain Whip: will be gotten when I get the last dias for unlocking Viy's Ankh. Will show off some sweet wall kicks and a ridiculously easy miniboss fight.
-Buckler: is an extra 80 coins so it's not TOO bad. Also the added bonus that I can get it pretty much on any segment.
-Silver Shield: is a good candidate for when I come back for the Ice Cavern map.

Pretty much the only reservation I have against these items are what I said before - it seems like a lot of "similar" SDA runs don't include items like these. So I guess all I need is one of you guys to say, "actually, just look at run X, it gets items like these," and that'll be enough to put my mind at ease. :)

So yeah, I guess if I get enough approval of this, I'll post this on the 100%/low% Definitions thread. Anon, while I'm there I'll elaborate on the low% La-Mulana situation for you if you'd like. :)

Anonymous52555

2011-04-26 03:58:50 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

Yeah fake silver shield doesn't really feel like an item. I think that is just to trick the player because there is a tablet about you need a silver shield to get the cup(except more vague than that) so I guess its to trick the player to think that is the shield. Glad you are getting all the maps though, considering the developers spent the time to put puzzles around all of them it feels like you should get them.

Also I would like to know if I can get the angel shield and skip the silver shield. That way I won't have to grind bombs for mother, And Beelzebub will be like 10 times easier.

TheMaxican

Edit history:

TheMaxican: 2011-04-26 10:34:19 pm

2011-04-26 10:33:46 pm

Break through the final confusion

Hmm... I guess it depends on what low% really means.

If it means "get the minimum number of items," then it doesn't matter which one you get.

If it means "finish with the least possible upgrades," then you'd be forced to get the silver shield.

Well, now that I think about, by allowing the Mini Doll to be chosen over the Grail, we've basically thrown out the second definition. So then, I say, sure you can get the Angel Shield. That's my two cents. Smiley

Oh and great IWBTG run, by the way. Hell Temple didn't seem half as hard as some of the things you have to do in that game. Smiley

Anonymous52555

Edit history:

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-26 11:47:39 pm

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-26 10:59:27 pm

2011-04-26 10:59:16 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

Why thank you.

~~I might just post my question in the 100%/low% definition thread and see what people say.~~

So they said I could pick it up instead of the silver shield. Hurray. Now I don't need 35 bombs for mother. Of course now I'm probably going to change my run a bit. I will probably fight Tiamat before Palenque so I have the angel shield when i do the chamber of birth

BlueGlass

2011-04-27 04:51:14 pm

Yep yep yep!

Keep in mind that if you do Chamber of Birth after Tiamat, you'll have to make a separate trip for the Talisman, as opposed to getting the Talisman and activating Palenque in one go. Plus I really don't see where in the Chamber itself the angel shield would be particularly helpful; there's not a lot of projectiles that are actually likely to hit you in there.

Of course, it'll still make life easier against Palenque, and you'll also have the sub-weapons from Dimensional Corridor, so that should help.

And I agree with TheMaxican: great work on IWBTG. I never even managed to beat Dracula, but you mash shoot so fast he dies in seconds.

TheMaxican: that sounds like a good 100% definition, all items and no fake silver shield. And getting the chain whip after the second Viy switch removes the need to buy the fireproof case, so that's 100 more coins of collecting that can be done post-bracelet.

Anonymous52555

Edit history:

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-27 05:22:11 pm

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-27 05:21:56 pm

2011-04-27 05:20:34 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

Isn't the talisman in the Temple of the sun. I would have to make a separate trip to get it anyway. The main reason why I was going to kill Tiamat first was so I could get the container in one go and I can't think of any other reason how it would make a time loss. I honestly see no downside to this. Or am I just missing something obvious again.

Also thank you

BlueGlass

Edit history:

BlueGlass: 2011-04-27 08:15:16 pm

2011-04-27 08:13:56 pm

Yep yep yep!

Yes, it's in Temple of the Sun, but it's also far closer than the Chamber of Extinction grail point to the small mural, where you need to jump then place a weight.

Good point about the Container though. While you'll be in the area again several times during the mantras, that will save a few screens of travel. No wait, scratch that, the only time you'd be going to that area otherwise is to get the woman statue, which you have to do before Dimensional Corridor. Unless you're planning on grabbing it right after the giant mudman?

Hmm... Maybe on the way to chant the area 6 mantra? I haven't done any timing, but I think going Mausoleum -> Graveyard -> Birth would be faster than Surface -> Tower -> Birth, and the former route would take you right by the container.

Now that gpt me started thinking about the mantras as a whole. Area 8 is easy, no different from an any%, Twin Labyrinths it would probably be fastest to use Jman's route, since you can't back-warp to Moon Temple. 6 I mentioned above, though come to think of it, you can just turn around right after reading the Mantra in Extinction and head back to Birth. From there, you'd head right back the way you came to read mantra 5, keep on going into Tower of Ruin, drop down to chant the mantra and activate the medicine statue. For 4, you can climb the first part of Tower of the Goddess up to the chanting room, meeting the Sage and getting the medicine on the way. In Sun Temple, it's probably faster to walk from the spot with all the mantra tablets to the Moon Temple door, as opposed to from the grail point. In area 2, you can come in through the Mausoleum entrance to read the Mantra, then backtrack a few screens to chant it. Finally, reading the mantra in Guidance Gate wouldn't change, but then you'd need to go to Confusion Gate through Guidance Gate to reach the chanting room.

Yes, it's in Temple of the Sun, but it's also far closer than the Chamber of Extinction grail point to the small mural, where you need to jump then place a weight.

Good point about the Container though.  While you'll be in the area again several times during the mantras, that will save a few screens of travel.  No wait, scratch that, the only time you'd be going to that area otherwise is to get the woman statue, which you have to do before Dimensional Corridor.  Unless you're planning on grabbing it right after the giant mudman?

Hmm...  Maybe on the way to chant the area 6 mantra?  I haven't done any timing, but I think going Mausoleum -> Graveyard -> Birth would be faster than  Surface -> Tower -> Birth, and the former route would take you right by the container.

Now that gpt me started thinking about the mantras as a whole.  Area 8 is easy, no different from an any%, Twin Labyrinths it would probably be fastest to use Jman's route, since you can't back-warp to Moon Temple.  6 I mentioned above, though come to think of it, you can just turn around right after reading the Mantra in Extinction and head back to Birth.  From there, you'd head right back the way you came to read mantra 5, keep on going into Tower of Ruin, drop down to chant the mantra and activate the medicine statue.  For 4, you can climb the first part of Tower of the Goddess up to the chanting room, meeting the Sage and getting the medicine on the way.  In Sun Temple, it's probably faster to walk from the spot with all the mantra tablets to the Moon Temple door, as opposed to from the grail point.  In area 2, you can come in through the Mausoleum entrance to read the Mantra, then backtrack a few screens to chant it.  Finally, reading the mantra in Guidance Gate wouldn't change, but then you'd need to go to Confusion Gate through Guidance Gate to reach the chanting room.

Anonymous52555

2011-04-28 05:47:59 am

Metroidvanias are God Tier

Oh wait I did miss something obvious, Fobous. Eh whatever I just won't try and completely change the route. Also yeah I was planning on killing the mud man, activating palenque and getting the woman statue all in one go. I just forgot about Fobous in the Dimensional Corridor. However if I read the tablet then go back through the gate I will pass by the container so I should be good.

I like the mantra route though. I was already planning a lot of that but some things seem faster than my plan.

BlueGlass

2011-04-28 02:26:45 pm

Yep yep yep!

While we're on the topic of low% route, something I discovered the other day but forgot to mention is that you'll still need to make two trips to climb Tower of the Goddess. The orb in Mausoleum of Giants not only starts the water but also makes the chest containing the airplane model appear. So you'd have to go in once, right after Viy, to read the tablet, then again to climb the tower for bombs and the flywheel.

Anonymous52555

2011-04-28 03:27:33 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

Yeah I knew that already.

My plan is:
Segment after Viy: Open the water to the tower of the goddess
Segment after that: Get the airplane model and the Flywheel.
Then after that: Bombs
Next: Chamber of birth. I will be killing the mudman and getting the woman statue all in one go.
I guess after that I will get the ocarina and talk to Alsedarna and Giltorriyo
Next: Get the talisman and unlock palenque
Next: Fight palenque

BlueGlass

2011-04-28 05:05:52 pm

Yep yep yep!

Any particular reason why you're doing bombs after flywheel? It doesn't make much difference either way, but bombs first lets you use them against the giant bird.

Fragmaster01

2011-04-28 06:43:50 pm

Wiggle wiggle

Quote from BlueGlass:

Any particular reason why you're doing bombs after flywheel? It doesn't make much difference either way, but bombs first lets you use them against the giant bird.

With proper application of Mace(or Axe), the bird goes down just fine. Bombs are actually rather lame damage-wise in that fight, generally only getting 1-2 hits off per bomb(for 2-4 damage per bomb, compare to 6 from a mace hit or 5 from an axe hit).

Anonymous52555

2011-04-28 07:56:20 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

Quote from Fragmaster01:

Quote from BlueGlass:

Any particular reason why you're doing bombs after flywheel? It doesn't make much difference either way, but bombs first lets you use them against the giant bird.

With proper application of Mace(or Axe), the bird goes down just fine. Bombs are actually rather lame damage-wise in that fight, generally only getting 1-2 hits off per bomb(for 2-4 damage per bomb, compare to 6 from a mace hit or 5 from an axe hit).

Haha you think I am allowed to get the mace. Bombs actually do 7 damage to enemies per hit. (one bomb can hit many times) The main reason I'm doing this is because I think going to the tower of the goddess through the confusion gate is faster than the graveyard.

BlueGlass

2011-04-28 08:50:24 pm

Yep yep yep!

Wait, so you're segmenting after getting bombs? Again, I haven't done any sort of testing, but if you're doing Chamber of Birth next, wouldn't it be faster to just fall back down the Tower then climb the left side, rather than going through the Surface again?

Also keep in mind that you have to destroy the bombable wall in Graveyard from the right, as you'll need to use that passage to get the wedge and for the mantras

Fragmaster01: he's doing a low% run, so no mace. No gauntlet either, meaning the axe is stupidly slow.

Anonymous52555

Edit history:

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-28 09:04:22 pm

2011-04-28 09:03:37 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

hmm another good idea. Considering the Chamber of birth is cake walk after my first low% run of the game (the one without the grail). Wait Just thought of something, It would be faster if I didn't segment until after the woman statue. Great I'm going to make things harder on my self but oh well. So I guess I will get the bombs first considering a extra 7-14 damage at the beginning wouldn't hurt at all.

Fragmaster01

2011-04-29 01:23:12 am

Wiggle wiggle

Quote from BlueGlass:

Fragmaster01: he's doing a low% run, so no mace. No gauntlet either, meaning the axe is stupidly slow.

I forget such things, yes. So mean. Still, I was rather sure Bombs were 2 per hit, up to 8 hits. Oddness.

TheMaxican

2011-04-30 01:00:08 am

Break through the final confusion

After my latest mess-around session, I STILL am not sure what causes those 200 coins to come out. However, I DO have some bad news for you, Anon... unless I'm wrong (which I may be), you just might be able to skip the Endless Key completely.

I'm not sure how I missed it before, but here are the steps:
1. Go to the Endless Corridor warp tablet, with Bombs.
2. Do the through-the-wall trick as usual to zip to the bottom (5th) level) of the corridor.
3. Go left one room, then up the stairs.
4. You'll be stuck on the 4th level, on the dragon. Throw a bomb to zip up to the normal floor (and almost kill yourself).
5. Go left one screen, and you'll realize that you're actually clipping into the wall here (since you haven't solved the puzzle, so the doorway is still closed. Jump up with the through-the-wall trick to end up at the 3rd level.
6. Once here, you can activate the series of steps to get the Twins Statue.
7. Kill enough enemies to level up and get your health back, then go up the stairs to the 2nd level, bomb yourself through the dragon, and now you can get the Keyblade and Death Seal.

Now, I say "maybe" because I haven't actually TRIED it yet, it's just POSSIBLE based on what I saw. That and all you need to do to prove this wrong is to prove that you can't get Bombs without getting the Endless Key...
...Wait, I just realized this means that you don't have to kill Shu. That means you don't need the Grail OR the Mini Doll... well now I just feel like a dick! Smiley

Someone prove me wrong, please!

...Anyway, I can't think of how this would save the 100% run any time, since I have to get all items anyway so I don't think I can gain anything by avoiding the Endless Key until later. But I'd have to think about it...
However, this MAY end up saving the any% some time - you can wait on exploring Confusion Gate until you come in from the Tower of the Goddess, then you can explore the key parts of it without having to have gone through all those confusing parts with the warps and such. Hmm... it actually may end up being quite a time saver!
...Now that I'm thinking about it, this actually may end up being faster for the 100% too! There's a lot less puzzles and such to go through...

...So yeah, now my brain is fried... someone either tell me I'm an idiot and forgot that you can't get Bombs without Endless Key, or otherwise help come up with more time-saving ideas!

After my latest mess-around session, I STILL am not sure what causes those 200 coins to come out. However, I DO have some bad news for you, Anon... unless I'm wrong (which I may be), you just might be able to skip the Endless Key completely.

I'm not sure how I missed it before, but here are the steps:
1. Go to the Endless Corridor warp tablet, with Bombs.
2. Do the through-the-wall trick as usual to zip to the bottom (5th) level) of the corridor.
3. Go left one room, then up the stairs.
4. You'll be stuck on the 4th level, on the dragon. Throw a bomb to zip up to the normal floor (and almost kill yourself).
5. Go left one screen, and you'll realize that you're actually clipping into the wall here (since you haven't solved the puzzle, so the doorway is still closed. Jump up with the through-the-wall trick to end up at the 3rd level.
6. Once here, you can activate the series of steps to get the Twins Statue.
7. Kill enough enemies to level up and get your health back, then go up the stairs to the 2nd level, bomb yourself through the dragon, and now you can get the Keyblade and Death Seal.

Now, I say "maybe" because I haven't actually TRIED it yet, it's just POSSIBLE based on what I saw. That and all you need to do to prove this wrong is to prove that you can't get Bombs without getting the Endless Key...
...Wait, I just realized this means that you don't have to kill Shu. That means you don't need the Grail OR the Mini Doll... well now I just feel like a dick! :) Someone prove me wrong, please!

...Anyway, I can't think of how this would save the 100% run any time, since I have to get all items anyway so I don't think I can gain anything by avoiding the Endless Key until later. But I'd have to think about it...
However, this MAY end up saving the any% some time - you can wait on exploring Confusion Gate until you come in from the Tower of the Goddess, then you can explore the key parts of it without having to have gone through all those confusing parts with the warps and such. Hmm... it actually may end up being quite a time saver!
...Now that I'm thinking about it, this actually may end up being faster for the 100% too! There's a lot less puzzles and such to go through...

...So yeah, now my brain is fried... someone either tell me I'm an idiot and forgot that you can't get Bombs without Endless Key, or otherwise help come up with more time-saving ideas!

BlueGlass

2011-04-30 01:14:28 am

Yep yep yep!

Oh wow, talk about a discovery that completely changes the route. The implications of this are huge, for any and of course low% Unless I'm wrong, this might make the pepper/treasure/anchor skippable as well.

Before we start rearranging everything though, I'll go ahead and test this, see if it really does work. Be back in a few hours.

TheMaxican

2011-04-30 02:11:40 am

Break through the final confusion

Thanks as always, BlueGlass. I won't be able to try this until tomorrow in any case - like I said, my brain is kinda fried right now. Smiley

I've been thinking about the 100% implications. Basically, on my first ever visit to Confusion Gate, I can get the Pepper and 100 Coins, then go on to Ice Cavern for the Gaunlet, and THEN continue to Tower of Ruin for the Spears and the Viy ankh unlocking (since obviously now I can't wait until after I kill Shu). Then much, much later, I come in through Tower of the Goddess, kill the big bat and unlock the stairs, get the warp point, and from there i can branch to the rest of the stuff - including getting the anchor + mini doll in one visit to the warp-y place.
Hmm... thinking about it further, it may actually be that you can't get to the bottom of Confusion Gate from the top, since you haven't solved the puzzles necessary to unlock the areas... something else to test tomorrow! Because yeah, otherwise it ends up being slower overall, since all of this would imply me going through Tower of the Goddess before Lantern, meaning things like Pippols being slower, etc. Actually, I just realized that in that case this whole thing is not THAT much of a time saver, since you HAVE to get the Flywheel, so you HAVE to do the lizard-into-the-light thing, so if you can't get down there, well... you end up having to go through all of Confusion Gate anyway...

So yeah, the two things to figure out are:
1) Is this even possible, and
2) Can you then avoid most of Confusion Gate until you come in via Tower of the Goddess

It just occurred to me that I have NO IDEA what will happen when you activate the stairs in the sacrifice-maiden-spawning-room while the maidens and spikes are still active! That'll be a fun discovery... hopefully the game doesn't get utterly confused!

Thanks as always, BlueGlass. I won't be able to try this until tomorrow in any case - like I said, my brain is kinda fried right now. :)

I've been thinking about the 100% implications. Basically, on my first ever visit to Confusion Gate, I can get the Pepper and 100 Coins, then go on to Ice Cavern for the Gaunlet, and THEN continue to Tower of Ruin for the Spears and the Viy ankh unlocking (since obviously now I can't wait until after I kill Shu). Then much, much later, I come in through Tower of the Goddess, kill the big bat and unlock the stairs, get the warp point, and from there i can branch to the rest of the stuff - including getting the anchor + mini doll in one visit to the warp-y place.
Hmm... thinking about it further, it may actually be that you can't get to the bottom of Confusion Gate from the top, since you haven't solved the puzzles necessary to unlock the areas... something else to test tomorrow! Because yeah, otherwise it ends up being slower overall, since all of this would imply me going through Tower of the Goddess before Lantern, meaning things like Pippols being slower, etc. Actually, I just realized that in that case this whole thing is not THAT much of a time saver, since you HAVE to get the Flywheel, so you HAVE to do the lizard-into-the-light thing, so if you can't get down there, well... you end up having to go through all of Confusion Gate anyway...

So yeah, the two things to figure out are:
1) Is this even possible, and
2) Can you then avoid most of Confusion Gate until you come in via Tower of the Goddess

It just occurred to me that I have NO IDEA what will happen when you activate the stairs in the sacrifice-maiden-spawning-room while the maidens and spikes are still active! That'll be a fun discovery... hopefully the game doesn't get utterly confused!

BlueGlass

2011-04-30 03:41:21 am

Yep yep yep!

Okay, it works, at least skipping the endless key. I haven't done anything yet about seeing what upper Confusion Gate looks like, and I need sleep.

Implications that come to mind immediately for low%: this will be evil. Since you no longer have the grail, you'll need to bomb yourself THREE times to reach the keyblade and get out, which means grinding a full exp bar on the enemies there. And coming back for the death seal, you'll have to either solve the puzzles and descend into Shrine of the Mother, or solve one of the puzzles (probably 2012) the first time through to reach the top with just two self-bombings.

Anonymous52555

Edit history:

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-30 10:15:52 am

2011-04-30 09:53:57 am

Metroidvanias are God Tier

~~Cool glitch um how do you get through the room with the 5 blocks.~~
nvm um I sorta just tried to make it so the glitch didn't work but it does. Then I tried to see if because of health I would have to get a life jewel and I don't. I should have never suggested bombing yourself D:<.

Ok now back to the old route plan. Also you still can't skip the anchor. The breaking through the final confusion puzzle and all. So um yeah this is going to be hell and a half.

BlueGlass

2011-04-30 11:37:16 am

Yep yep yep!

Gah, several minutes of puzzles all because of that stupid lizard. Though I just realized: you can actually get the ocarina before climbing Endless Corridor, meaning the twin statue, death seal, and keyblade can all be grabbed in one trip. Of course, you'll still need to bomb yourself three times, but you only have to do it once.

I'm wondering how much time this would actually save for any%. Killing Shu and grabbing the endless key really isn't that far out of the way, but skipping it means you have to walk to Tower of the Goddess twice, among other things.

TheMaxican

Edit history:

TheMaxican: 2011-04-30 04:45:41 pm

2011-04-30 01:36:39 pm

Break through the final confusion

Yeah, it looks like thanks to that lizard, this actually doesn't end up being the time saver I was hoping for... it just ends up screwing the low% run. Smiley

Actually, Anon, if you continue your current run and avoid doing the stuck-in-the-wall glitch, I wonder if you could count that as "low% without large skip glitches". Smiley

Although in this particular case, "large skip glitches" end up making the run significantly longer, so... not quite sure how that works. Smiley

EDIT: Confirming that I don't think there's a way to skip the "break through the final confusion" part thanks to the lizard. Too bad.

Not to try to change the topic, but I STILL can't get those 200 coins to come out. This is bad... I obviously can't start running the game until I figure this one out!
The answer, I hope, lies in the save file. Does anyone know of any save editors for this game? Or at the very least, the format of the save file? I tried messing around with it but seems pretty chaotic... due to the way they chose to save the date/time and time elapsed, the WHOLE freaking file changes pretty intensely. I guess they're encoding the time somehow? Anyway... having to decipher the file format would certainly add even more time to the planning of this run. Smiley

Yeah, it looks like thanks to that lizard, this actually doesn't end up being the time saver I was hoping for... it just ends up screwing the low% run. :)

Actually, Anon, if you continue your current run and avoid doing the stuck-in-the-wall glitch, I wonder if you could count that as "low% without large skip glitches". :) Although in this particular case, "large skip glitches" end up making the run significantly longer, so... not quite sure how that works. :)

EDIT: Confirming that I don't think there's a way to skip the "break through the final confusion" part thanks to the lizard. Too bad.

Not to try to change the topic, but I STILL can't get those 200 coins to come out. This is bad... I obviously can't start running the game until I figure this one out!
The answer, I hope, lies in the save file. Does anyone know of any save editors for this game? Or at the very least, the format of the save file? I tried messing around with it but seems pretty chaotic... due to the way they chose to save the date/time and time elapsed, the WHOLE freaking file changes pretty intensely. I guess they're encoding the time somehow? Anyway... having to decipher the file format would certainly add even more time to the planning of this run. :)

Anonymous52555

Edit history:

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-30 07:05:48 pm

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-30 07:05:32 pm

2011-04-30 04:56:32 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

hmm or we could just erase all evidence of this trick being discovered. Wink

Also I might have and Idea of what is happening

I got my copy that is giving me the 200 coin pot from http://my.opera.com/White%20Knell/blog/
I wonder if the aeon genesis one is bugged. I am also running it in capability mode try that.

Edit: Just a thought, If we do consider the Endless key skip a large skip glitch. Then should I grab the gloves and not do the wall glitch? I think Later I might do a actually low% run with large skip glitches but for now just this run is hard enough.