Kirby's Dream Course

Edit history:

r0bd0g: 2015-04-14 01:42:48 pm

r0bd0g: 2015-04-14 12:36:16 pm

2015-04-14 11:45:55 am

Did an attempt yesterday for the first time in a long time. 36:34. I've switched to timing from OK which adds about 6s, so a 36:28 or so with the other timing method, an overall save of 49.5s. I didn't think I would remember all the strategies without having played through a few full runs first. I mostly did remember. But the whole time I felt like my brain was being held together by scotch tape. Good run should probably at least be a low 35, you'd think. Knowing me I probably won't do another run until somebody beats this one, and after they do, it'll take me a couple weeks to get up the gumption to relearn the entire game all over again, or maybe I'll not even bother at all. It'd make a lot more sense to keep doing attempts while it's all still fresh... I guess what I'm saying is, I hope somebody beats it soon :p.

Somewhere between recording it on my VCR and playing it back, the recording loses a little over a half second per split, I'm not really sure why. I don't get this problem with Paper Mario recordings.

Saved 0.75s in Course 1 compared to my PB. On 1-5 I pressed B too late and got a slow hole in one.

Saved 0.75s on Course 2. I overpowered the first shot on 2-2 and had to take much slower than usual 2nd shot. This was one of 2 splits where I didn't make a new best. Previous best is 0.5s faster.

Saved 15s on Course 3. I failed the hole in one on 3-8 in a worse way than usual and had to take a long 2nd shot to get to the hole. Speed was WAY too low on that first shot. Lucky I even made it to the warp.

Saved 25.5s on Course 4. I failed the hole in one on 4-8 by forgetting to boost right away after hitting the divider.

Lost 15s over an already abysmal Course 5. Bad Tornado control on 5-5 cost me an extra shot, but most of the time was lost in 5-8. If you watch the run, prepare to laugh. I unearthed a previously unfathomed level of hilarity with that one. 40s lost to this... Maybe I should just permanently switch to the unnecessarily risky strategy if this is the kind of thing that can happen with the safe one...

Saved 4s on Course 6. I failed the crazy-insane strategy on 6-5. I got the Hi Jump but missed the arrow and shot like a rocket into space. It's a pretty slow recovery shot when that happens, though it could have been much worse if I had missed the Hi Jump. I guess this is the run's other big mistake, but I've pretty-much made a pact with myself that I will always attempt this crazy strat.

Saved 6s on Course 7. Due to the major mistakes that had happened, I opted for the risky UFO strats which barely save any time. 7-1 went well, which is by far the hardest part of the UFO strat. I only get the first shot on that hole correctly about 50% of the time. I wasn't feeling my aim on the first shot of 7-2; I got it in my head that I had aimed too far. While I was thinking that, I put a completely stupid amount of power on the shot and had to abort and use the UFO to even get down into the pit. I checked after the run, and unless I got a super shot, then I did aim too far. Cleaning up the guys in the pit was also sloppy. So I didn't save time with the UFO, but similar mistakes could have easily happened with the normal strategies.

Saved 10s on Course 8.

Saved 2.5s on Dedede.

---

In other news, I've finished my first pass of the any% strategies for the Extra Course. There are a lot of really difficult, inconsistent strategies hiding in there that I hope can someday be improved. Extra Course is just as scary as I remember it. I should at least pilfer the 2nd half of the TAS, I guess. Someday soonish I plan to go through and get the strats ready for a 100% run as well. Specify alternate strats so that you can make the medal cutoff and some backups for if you miss shots or are scared that you're going to. Here's the link to that pastebin again, so you don't have to search for it: http://pastebin.com/9cx9SqxV

I found out this game has a speedrun.com page, so I guess I will make an attempt to have them fix their broken categories. They start timing at OK so you might have to see about getting a 6s penalty or something IDK.

Did an attempt yesterday for the first time in a long time. 36:34. I've switched to timing from OK which adds about 6s, so a 36:28 or so with the other timing method, an overall save of 49.5s. I didn't think I would remember all the strategies without having played through a few full runs first. I mostly did remember. But the whole time I felt like my brain was being held together by scotch tape. Good run should probably at least be a low 35, you'd think. Knowing me I probably won't do another run until somebody beats this one, and after they do, it'll take me a couple weeks to get up the gumption to relearn the entire game all over again, or maybe I'll not even bother at all. It'd make a lot more sense to keep doing attempts while it's all still fresh... I guess what I'm saying is, I hope somebody beats it soon :p.

Somewhere between recording it on my VCR and playing it back, the recording loses a little over a half second per split, I'm not really sure why. I don't get this problem with Paper Mario recordings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz8Q5QexIKE

Saved 0.75s in Course 1 compared to my PB. On 1-5 I pressed B too late and got a slow hole in one.

Saved 0.75s on Course 2. I overpowered the first shot on 2-2 and had to take much slower than usual 2nd shot. This was one of 2 splits where I didn't make a new best. Previous best is 0.5s faster.

Saved 15s on Course 3. I failed the hole in one on 3-8 in a worse way than usual and had to take a long 2nd shot to get to the hole. Speed was WAY too low on that first shot. Lucky I even made it to the warp.

Saved 25.5s on Course 4. I failed the hole in one on 4-8 by forgetting to boost right away after hitting the divider.

Lost 15s over an already abysmal Course 5. Bad Tornado control on 5-5 cost me an extra shot, but most of the time was lost in 5-8. If you watch the run, prepare to laugh. I unearthed a previously unfathomed level of hilarity with that one. 40s lost to this... Maybe I should just permanently switch to the unnecessarily risky strategy if this is the kind of thing that can happen with the safe one...

Saved 4s on Course 6. I failed the crazy-insane strategy on 6-5. I got the Hi Jump but missed the arrow and shot like a rocket into space. It's a pretty slow recovery shot when that happens, though it could have been much worse if I had missed the Hi Jump. I guess this is the run's other big mistake, but I've pretty-much made a pact with myself that I will always attempt this crazy strat.

Saved 6s on Course 7. Due to the major mistakes that had happened, I opted for the risky UFO strats which barely save any time. 7-1 went well, which is by far the hardest part of the UFO strat. I only get the first shot on that hole correctly about 50% of the time. I wasn't feeling my aim on the first shot of 7-2; I got it in my head that I had aimed too far. While I was thinking that, I put a completely stupid amount of power on the shot and had to abort and use the UFO to even get down into the pit. I checked after the run, and unless I got a super shot, then I did aim too far. Cleaning up the guys in the pit was also sloppy. So I didn't save time with the UFO, but similar mistakes could have easily happened with the normal strategies.

Saved 10s on Course 8.

Saved 2.5s on Dedede.

---

In other news, I've finished my first pass of the any% strategies for the Extra Course. There are a lot of really difficult, inconsistent strategies hiding in there that I hope can someday be improved. Extra Course is just as scary as I remember it. I should at least pilfer the 2nd half of the TAS, I guess. Someday soonish I plan to go through and get the strats ready for a 100% run as well. Specify alternate strats so that you can make the medal cutoff and some backups for if you miss shots or are scared that you're going to. Here's the link to that pastebin again, so you don't have to search for it: http://pastebin.com/9cx9SqxV

I found out this game has a speedrun.com page, so I guess I will make an attempt to have them fix their broken categories. They start timing at OK so you might have to see about getting a 6s penalty or something IDK.

ICWobbles

2015-07-26 11:06:20 pm

I am intensely happy to see this thread. I just replayed this game fully this year and had an amazing time, wondering if anybody else was interested in running it. Gonna look through the pastebin with some thoughts though I'm gonna have a busy week.

r0bd0g

2015-08-07 04:57:28 pm

I'll be glad to hear whatever suggestions you can think of! I'm pretty sure the other guy who was running this is still alive but he just kinda dropped off the face of the earth. I did actually get around to adding hole in one options for a 100% run, btw. My laptop died so if somebody does beat my time it'll be a really long time before I can get around to taking it back.

ButtersBB

2015-08-12 07:16:31 am

Hey, I'm throwing my hat into this game. Good to see all the love that has already been put into this run!

I'm planning on doing "as many hole in ones as possible" right now. I dunno, I'd like to time it in terms of "get into the hole as fast as possible" and ignore the fanfare, but I can see the merits of RTA timing as well. So I guess I'm doing "All Gold Medals" first.

Tons to read through here, well done r0bd0g and KCMcG for all the work you have done!

r0bd0g

Edit history:

r0bd0g: 2015-08-15 06:13:42 am

r0bd0g: 2015-08-15 06:12:52 am

r0bd0g: 2015-08-15 06:11:00 am

r0bd0g: 2015-08-15 06:05:30 am

r0bd0g: 2015-08-15 06:05:09 am

2015-08-15 05:59:18 am

That sounds like it would be a real pain to time, lol. Going for all the hole in ones you can get can be a risky proposition. The way I do 8-4, if you miss a frame perfect B press, you fly off the cliff and lose the powerup you need for the next hole. TBH for me it was something of a relief that hole in ones were actually slower. There might be a couple holes where the optimal score is slower even discounting the fanfare?

My pastebin includes strategies for getting all gold medals and still skips the majority of the hole in ones. In fact there are only 8 of them in the optimal route, though perhaps you'd want to score a handful more of them for safety. Also a disclaimer that the extra course strategies are only a first pass and haven't been tested at all for consistency other than not going for anything obviously stupid. So if you dip into those extra courses, let me know how you fare. My computer is broken so unfortunately I won't be able to help out as much as I'd like.

ButtersBB

2015-08-27 05:23:19 pm

Quote from r0bd0g:

That sounds like it would be a real pain to time, lol. Going for all the hole in ones you can get can be a risky proposition. The way I do 8-4, if you miss a frame perfect B press, you fly off the cliff and lose the powerup you need for the next hole. TBH for me it was something of a relief that hole in ones were actually slower. There might be a couple holes where the optimal score is slower even discounting the fanfare?

My pastebin includes strategies for getting all gold medals and still skips the majority of the hole in ones. In fact there are only 8 of them in the optimal route, though perhaps you'd want to score a handful more of them for safety. Also a disclaimer that the extra course strategies are only a first pass and haven't been tested at all for consistency other than not going for anything obviously stupid. So if you dip into those extra courses, let me know how you fare. My computer is broken so unfortunately I won't be able to help out as much as I'd like.

Yeah, I was kinda surprised at how few hole in ones are actually necessary.

I have other concurrent projects, but I'll keep the thread in the loop as I start progressing.

[quote="r0bd0g"]That sounds like it would be a real pain to time, lol. Going for all the hole in ones you can get can be a risky proposition. The way I do 8-4, if you miss a frame perfect B press, you fly off the cliff and lose the powerup you need for the next hole. TBH for me it was something of a relief that hole in ones were actually slower. There might be a couple holes where the optimal score is slower even discounting the fanfare?

My pastebin includes strategies for getting all gold medals and still skips the majority of the hole in ones. In fact there are only 8 of them in the optimal route, though perhaps you'd want to score a handful more of them for safety. Also a disclaimer that the extra course strategies are only a first pass and haven't been tested at all for consistency other than not going for anything obviously stupid. So if you dip into those extra courses, let me know how you fare. My computer is broken so unfortunately I won't be able to help out as much as I'd like.[/quote]

Yeah, I was kinda surprised at how few hole in ones are actually necessary.

I have other concurrent projects, but I'll keep the thread in the loop as I start progressing.

KCMcG

2016-02-17 05:53:33 pm

So, I picked this game back up about a month ago and started doing a tool assisted run in order to find better strategies for each hole. Managed a 36:36 with the new strategies even with a few major mistakes. I'll post my notes from the tool assisted playthrough later tonight when I have time.

KCMcG

2016-02-17 07:31:38 pm

Here's the link to my notes. Cleaned them up a little and added some clarifying notes. Dropped them into a google doc.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/13bxu8sJs4yl5PNbSB9lvimPjX3qTLlfbyUY8lyZHl4Q/edit?usp=sharing

r0bd0g

Edit history:

r0bd0g: 2016-02-23 01:10:54 pm

2016-02-23 01:04:59 pm

Looking at your run and your notes, here are some things I looked into. I changed a couple things in my route so you can still go to that old paste and look for *NEW* and see what's different. Those old strats were tried and tested, so I might decide I don't like some of the changes after I get back into it. Lemme know if there's anything new that I've missed?

1-5: You do 0-power hole-in-one but don't roll up the backslope, however, clipping the edge of the hole after bouncing on that front slope still seems faster to me? But investigating your strategy led me to find a way to improve the hole-in-one strat.

3-1: And I pilfered a faster way of doing no spin from your TAS notes, but I left the 3/4 option there for the sake of simplicity, as this awful hole was already more complicated that it probably ought to be.

3-4: Well a grounder for the 2nd shot is quite a bit faster but I'm not sure how consistent it is. Sometimes you can sink it right in, and usually if you can do that you can save it with the Parasol if it doesn't, but in this case it doesn't work as consistently as I'd like... Might as well go for it anyway I guess. But the variable position when starting the shot causes problems...

3-5: Less power on shot 2 is faster, as is not using the Stone to enter the hole. So I messed around and came up with something. The only thing I don't like about it is that there's a very specific aim you have to use, so you will probably waste a small amount more time correcting your aim than before.

3-6: Improved hole-in-one strat, pilfered from ButtersBB.

4-1: Hitting L before firing the shot might be very slightly faster, yeah.

5-2: The full forward spin shot down to the freeze is about 1s faster if you can sink it right into the hole and 0.75s slower if you have to boost and slide up the backslope before entering the hole. I debated changing it... If I'd been able to acurately guess right away whether the ball would sink directly in or not, I would have.

5-8: Yeah that saves a decent chunk of time. It seems consistent but as soon as you try to make it faster, it starts fighting back. Anyway I tried to find something that entered the hole pretty quickly that wasn't too inconsistent. The fastest 2-shot strategy might still be faster than this by a little, but I decided to get rid of it since it's not nearly faster enough to be worth the trouble.

6-1: I know that boosting as you go is faster but I was worried it would too often result in you missing the hole. I think this placement of boosts will hopefully speed the hole up by a few tenths without causing that to happen, and I think it will be easier than requiring a boost against a divider like it used to... Hopefully anyway.

6-2: If you turn around and fireball right into the divider, it's actually pretty fast. It might be the fastest hole in one option, but the consistency is only 80% or so because you will sometimes randomly bounce on the slope instead of the sand (and sometimes that will send you off the cliff). Stopping on the sand like you suggest seems to be the fastest two-shot option so far.

6-3: Yeah, using a lower power so you can boost on the first bounce is a faster way of doing the first shot; I probably should have realized this. I changed shots 2 and 3 to something which might not be fastest optimally but which I think will be generally faster in practice. But don't fall off.

6-5: It seems like you're going for something specific at the start of the shot? I'm not sure it works all that well, but rolling directly onto the conveyer without hitting the arrow is faster and honestly seems easier too. But this doesn't affect me b/c I'm doing the crazy strat every time lol.

7-1: Reading your notes about UFO strats I see there's an easier way to make the first shot work, but it is about 2s slower. Still the UFO strats will be maybe 4s faster overall, so if you're confident enough about everything except for that first shot, then maybe you could try it... UFO strats are hard but normal strats aren't easy. I get the impression you didn't understand what I was going for on 7-2, so I attempted to clarify what it is that you should do in my route. That hole is supposed to be faster with the UFO, not slower. I feel like you're not quite giving the UFO enough credit...

Looking at your run and your notes, here are some things I looked into. I changed a couple things in my route so you can still go to that old paste and look for *NEW* and see what's different. Those old strats were tried and tested, so I might decide I don't like some of the changes after I get back into it. Lemme know if there's anything new that I've missed?

1-5: You do 0-power hole-in-one but don't roll up the backslope, however, clipping the edge of the hole after bouncing on that front slope still seems faster to me? But investigating your strategy led me to find a way to improve the hole-in-one strat.

3-1: And I pilfered a faster way of doing no spin from your TAS notes, but I left the 3/4 option there for the sake of simplicity, as this awful hole was already more complicated that it probably ought to be.

3-4: Well a grounder for the 2nd shot is quite a bit faster but I'm not sure how consistent it is. Sometimes you can sink it right in, and usually if you can do that you can save it with the Parasol if it doesn't, but in this case it doesn't work as consistently as I'd like... Might as well go for it anyway I guess. But the variable position when starting the shot causes problems...

3-5: Less power on shot 2 is faster, as is not using the Stone to enter the hole. So I messed around and came up with something. The only thing I don't like about it is that there's a very specific aim you have to use, so you will probably waste a small amount more time correcting your aim than before.

3-6: Improved hole-in-one strat, pilfered from ButtersBB.

4-1: Hitting L before firing the shot might be very slightly faster, yeah.

5-2: The full forward spin shot down to the freeze is about 1s faster if you can sink it right into the hole and 0.75s slower if you have to boost and slide up the backslope before entering the hole. I debated changing it... If I'd been able to acurately guess right away whether the ball would sink directly in or not, I would have.

5-8: Yeah that saves a decent chunk of time. It seems consistent but as soon as you try to make it faster, it starts fighting back. Anyway I tried to find something that entered the hole pretty quickly that wasn't too inconsistent. The fastest 2-shot strategy might still be faster than this by a little, but I decided to get rid of it since it's not nearly faster enough to be worth the trouble.

6-1: I know that boosting as you go is faster but I was worried it would too often result in you missing the hole. I think this placement of boosts will hopefully speed the hole up by a few tenths without causing that to happen, and I think it will be easier than requiring a boost against a divider like it used to... Hopefully anyway.

6-2: If you turn around and fireball right into the divider, it's actually pretty fast. It might be the fastest hole in one option, but the consistency is only 80% or so because you will sometimes randomly bounce on the slope instead of the sand (and sometimes that will send you off the cliff). Stopping on the sand like you suggest seems to be the fastest two-shot option so far.

6-3: Yeah, using a lower power so you can boost on the first bounce is a faster way of doing the first shot; I probably should have realized this. I changed shots 2 and 3 to something which might not be fastest optimally but which I think will be generally faster in practice. But don't fall off.

6-5: It seems like you're going for something specific at the start of the shot? I'm not sure it works all that well, but rolling directly onto the conveyer without hitting the arrow is faster and honestly seems easier too. But this doesn't affect me b/c I'm doing the crazy strat every time lol.

7-1: Reading your notes about UFO strats I see there's an easier way to make the first shot work, but it is about 2s slower. Still the UFO strats will be maybe 4s faster overall, so if you're confident enough about everything except for that first shot, then maybe you could try it... UFO strats are hard but normal strats aren't easy. I get the impression you didn't understand what I was going for on 7-2, so I attempted to clarify what it is that you should do in my route. That hole is supposed to be faster with the UFO, not slower. I feel like you're not quite giving the UFO enough credit...

KCMcG

2016-03-04 11:32:31 pm

Thanks for your notes R0bd0g. I'm definitely being picky about my route just because it's locked into the muscle memory now, but I think having both sets of notes is good for anyone that might want to pick up the game. And on that note: new WR of 35:52!

My goal for the last 2 weeks was a sub-36. I had a 36:28 that I was holding back on posting because I really wanted to keep improving it. Can't believe I broke my PB by 35 seconds. Super excited for this. May have to finally start working on that All Courses run...

r0bd0g

2016-03-05 07:23:02 pm

Nice! I wonder if I should go through the trouble to beat this... It's gonna take a lot more effort this time around... Hmmmmmmmmm...

r0bd0g

Edit history:

r0bd0g: 2016-03-08 04:01:53 pm

2016-03-08 02:30:43 pm

I've said this before but if anybody is crazy enough to attempt the extra courses... let me know how it goes!! I want to hear all about it.

Just a few more notes.

1-8: Your strategy to not aim and fly in with the parasol is only 0.5s slower and seems a lot easier... though still not easy? I've changed the strat... decided against leaving the old one around.

8-2: If you're travelling slowly then it's probably better not to push it to try and make it between the final two guys, since that strat is only a half second faster anyway.

KCMcG

2016-03-08 08:04:46 pm

I've actually started practicing the extra course route. First step for me was trying to earn a gold on every course and I've only managed to get gold on the first 3 so far. Had a lot of trouble with course 3. I've been using your guide as a baseline and have started using the TAS tools to verify exact frame timing for everything, but I've only finished course 1 with that.

Also, I submitted for SGDQ with an option to do an "All Golds" as an incentive. So I've started practicing that route too. It seems like it more be more fun for a marathon to get as many hole-in-ones as possible.

r0bd0g

2016-03-11 04:38:16 pm

Oh you haven't gotten the golds yet? Heheh good luck lol. I've said before but the place is scary. I read the route and I just laugh at how bad some of the strats are. Anyway, here are some more notes!!!

I went through and redid all the gold medal strats for normal course, which resulted in some reordering of which holes it's best to get the hole-in-ones. I also added a number of backup gold medal strats which weren't there before... Many of them were as slow as I'd figured they'd probably be, but there were a few surprises. Added strats include 1-4, 3-3, 3-4, 4-3, 4-4, 4-5, 5-6, 7-3, and 8-5. I know a few more hole-in-ones than what's on the route but they're definitely not fit for a speedrun.

7-6: Saved 2s. Works well. Seriously this is a pretty good strat. It started as an improvement for the hole in one, but eventually I figured out how to split it into two shots. (The hole in one is still the slowest hole in one in Course 7, and it doesn't work quite as well as the new hole in two does, but at least it's way better than it used to be.)

Oh you haven't gotten the golds yet? Heheh good luck lol. I've said before but the place is scary. I read the route and I just laugh at how bad some of the strats are. Anyway, here are some more notes!!!

I went through and redid all the gold medal strats for normal course, which resulted in some reordering of which holes it's best to get the hole-in-ones. I also added a number of backup gold medal strats which weren't there before... Many of them were as slow as I'd figured they'd probably be, but there were a few surprises. Added strats include 1-4, 3-3, 3-4, 4-3, 4-4, 4-5, 5-6, 7-3, and 8-5. I know a few more hole-in-ones than what's on the route but they're definitely not fit for a speedrun.

7-6: Saved 2s. Works well. Seriously this is a pretty good strat. It started as an improvement for the hole in one, but eventually I figured out how to split it into two shots. (The hole in one is still the slowest hole in one in Course 7, and it doesn't work quite as well as the new hole in two does, but at least it's way better than it used to be.)

ButtersBB

2016-03-12 02:11:48 am

Quote from KCMcG:

I've actually started practicing the extra course route. First step for me was trying to earn a gold on every course and I've only managed to get gold on the first 3 so far. Had a lot of trouble with course 3. I've been using your guide as a baseline and have started using the TAS tools to verify exact frame timing for everything, but I've only finished course 1 with that.

Also, I submitted for SGDQ with an option to do an "All Golds" as an incentive. So I've started practicing that route too. It seems like it more be more fun for a marathon to get as many hole-in-ones as possible.

All golds for normal course, or all golds for every course including extra?

KCMcG

2016-03-12 08:08:06 am

Quote from ButtersBB:

All golds for normal course, or all golds for every course including extra?

Oh jeez, normal course only. I haven't gotten all golds on the extra course yet. I wouldn't even feel comfortable offering to even finish the extra courses as an incentive, let alone getting all golds on it.

r0bd0g

2016-03-12 06:35:52 pm

If you get into SGDQ... It takes so long to get from one hole to the next, that's the only reason this game isn't fit for a marathon, but it's a huge issue, so I don't expect it will ever get featured... But if you get in I want to race you. I think it would be a close race the whole way through, and there would be less down-time since maybe one person could be in a hole while another is between holes. I'm not submitting though and I think it'd be required that I do so... My point is that I think the both of us running at the same time add up to more than the sum of its parts.

KCMcG

2016-03-15 11:01:39 pm

OMG, I finally got the course 5 route down and it's ridiculous. First of all, a 16 is not a gold medal, but after a bunch of attempts I managed to hole-in-one the first 5 holes of it (somehow) and got my gold with a 13.

5/8 of the way through the extra courses finally. I took a break off the last few days, but last time I practiced the regular run I was still able to get 37 minutes on my first attempt. Will probably just post the video the first time I attempt an all courses run. There's no time listed anywhere that I could find, so I guess it will have to be WR, right?

r0bd0g

Edit history:

r0bd0g: 2016-04-09 04:57:01 pm

r0bd0g: 2016-04-09 03:49:53 pm

r0bd0g: 2016-04-02 02:34:32 pm

r0bd0g: 2016-03-24 05:59:10 pm

r0bd0g: 2016-03-19 11:58:30 am

2016-03-19 10:15:07 am

According my notes, gold medal cutoff on Ex-5 is 15, so your 16 was one shot too many. My highscore on Ex 5 is 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1 = 9. IDK how to do Ex5-7.

There are SO MANY insanely hard courses in Extra I'm not sure how you've even managed to get as far as you have. :p

Butters accidentally found a hole in one on 7-5 which is as fast or faster than the two-shot, if you get full yellow. I dislike this and will thusly attempt to improve the hole. EDIT: OK done.

EDIT AGAIN: Working on redoing strats in extra course, halfway through it I guess.
MORE: Finished redoing extra strats.