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grndino: 2010-11-28 07:54:49 pm
grndino: 2010-11-28 01:45:27 pm
grndino: 2010-11-23 07:11:12 pm
grndino: 2010-11-14 11:34:01 am
grndino: 2010-11-06 09:03:51 pm
grndino: 2010-11-06 08:53:30 pm
grndino: 2010-11-06 11:19:01 am
grndino: 2010-10-20 01:36:25 am
grndino: 2010-10-19 03:40:27 pm
grndino: 2010-10-19 01:19:06 pm
grndino: 2010-10-19 12:39:04 am
grndino: 2010-10-18 06:03:50 pm
grndino: 2009-04-28 10:46:11 pm
01 3:58
02 9:14
03 5:38
04 7:17
05 5:20
06 15:48
07 7:48
08 9:49
09 8:33
10 13:34
11 3:45
12 8:24
13 2:48
14 12:09
15 5:24
16 7:30.5 (+0.5)

Original post:
Okay, don't get excited.  I haven't even finished a practice run yet ecksdee.  What I have done is failed mission five with various minimalist forces.  Those assault frigates have a laconic way of cherry tapping salvage corvettes to death.

Immediate thanks go to VorpalEdge for clarifying the battleball concept.  Perhaps I shouldn't spoil it, but oh well.  The BB is achieved by F4ing (aggro tactics) and F10ing (sphere) a group of scouts (or others) and ctrl+alt clicking (guard) on what will be the center scout.  The center scout will only ever be told to move, and the whole group will only have its special ability activated (z), which makes them go faster.  No direct orders are given to the surrounding group, which will auto-acquire targets and fire constantly.  Usually they will stay very close to the center scout, but if they get hit or somebody sneezes, they'll branch out very far away.  Which SUCKS cuz they usually die afterwards.

Anyways after reading that you deserve a video
Mission 1 in 3:57 obsoleted

I don't use the BB yet cuz I only need to go so fast enough to get the first two trials done and spawn the probe in time for the salvette to reach it without stopping.  I almost forget to build scouts for the next mission but it doesn't waste time as I'll be waiting around later anyhow.
Thread title:  
sda loyalist
Sweet, wasn't I telling you to do this on IRC before?
Hope rides alone.
would love to see a run on this, but increase your brightness next time!

sadly, I was never able to finish the game because there was one mission, very late in the game, where huge forces came right at the mothership without even noticing my other ships and destroying it before I could kill the attackers. I never had a slightest idea how to make it there so I quit Sad
May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce!
I would also love to see a speedrun of this game. Its a shame there isn't one. Homeworld is such an underappreciated game.

Good luck!
Edit history:
mcbroiler: 2009-03-22 10:46:36 pm
Run, you pigeons. It's Robert Frost!
I too would immensely enjoy a run of this game.  It gets quite difficult near the end. 

Keep at it!
Made more progress, edited first post.

I'm trying to keep a minimal number of ships which is why I don't build more scouts, or anything really.  However this has proved wildly insufficient for mission 4; previously I had simply built a shitton of scouts to survive, but this becomes even less effective later on.  One guide I read recommended a ball of attack bombers.  I'll see how I do.
sda loyalist
It is truly a pleasure to find a game wherein the voice actors know how to pronounce the word 'data'. Smiley
Run, you pigeons. It's Robert Frost!
The presentation in Homeworld is top notch all around.  Listening to the first mission took me back.
I changed from version 1.0 to 1.4 and redid the first three segments.  1.4 has the best stats for units in terms of build times, and slightly higher armor for some units.  The armor buff affects enemy units as well I presume, but I don't think it'll affect my time that much.

No more cool audio on mission 1 due to me skipping the cutscene too quickly Sad  I think I might be nearing the lower limit on mission 1; if I go too fast and destroy the first set of targets before I'm told to, the objective never gets completed.

Mission 2 features more consistent outrunning of missiles, not that you'll be able to see this very well.  But I keep a couple more scouts alive than last run, and chase down the enemy units more precisely.

Mission 3 has, at VorpalEdge's suggestion, me capturing all the frigates and building some heavy corvettes instead of a resource controller, which I don't outright need for the next mission.  I also have the resourcer hold on to its payload for an exploit later on.

Depending on how running mission 4 goes, I might be redoing the previous to get a different build.  You'll notice I don't start researching capital ship chassis (or whatsit) until very near the end of 3.  The Bentusi in the next mission will usually offer you Ion Frigate tech if you've research everything avail like a good boy, however Ions require Capital chassis, so instead they'll offer you attack bombers, which I wouldn't normally get until mission 5.  I discovered this somewhat by accident, lol.  So if the heavies don't pan out, I'll see how pumping out bombers does.
Run, you pigeons. It's Robert Frost!
The way Homeworld handles units that carry over to the next mission is making this speedrun very interesting strategically.  Keep up the good work!
Edit history:
VorpalEdge: 2009-04-02 12:18:56 am
welcome to the machine
Quote from grndino:
Depending on how running mission 4 goes, I might be redoing the previous to get a different build.  You'll notice I don't start researching capital ship chassis (or whatsit) until very near the end of 3.  The Bentusi in the next mission will usually offer you Ion Frigate tech if you've research everything avail like a good boy, however Ions require Capital chassis, so instead they'll offer you attack bombers, which I wouldn't normally get until mission 5.  I discovered this somewhat by accident, lol.  So if the heavies don't pan out, I'll see how pumping out bombers does.

Oh sweet, that's awesome.  I would play around with bombers instead of heavy corvs, as bombers do twice as much damage.  Yes, I went and checked the values used internally in the game.  Maybe you could build light corvs in mission 3 to make up for not being able to build bombers asap?

I'd still recommend getting a controller in mission 3 just because you'll only be able to get one or two loads in mission 4 otherwise, but that may not be possible.  I think it depends on how mission 5 is tackled.
Was just able to defeat the carrier, attacking as soon as possible, without pausing to let it inch downward towards my MS, with the dozen or so scouts, five heavies, five bombers, and two assault frigates.  Had to kamikaze one scout just to be sure.

Not building any heavies and saving recs for bombers seems to be the way to go.  Having a prepared fleet isn't a priority as damaging the retreating carrier whilst killing one, two or maybe even three of the ions and capping the rest will require as many bombers as possible to make sure everything dies as coincidentally as possible.  The game will continue to spawn enemy corvettes at the far corner of the map as long as any large units are still alive, which really eats up time.

While scouting mission five it seems I'll have at least the carrier & support, two destroyers and eleven or so frigates to deal with, and the allure of those two resourcers to cap.  There was also three fighter groups; these aren't as much of a problem.  I really want to capture as much as possible but it seems like it would take so much time.
Procrastination Nation!
I'll be excited for this run, as I never got around to beating this game... I think I came close to the end in HW:2 though.

I really liked the music, though the torrent for the full soundtrack was not high quality at all.
why did you remove the vids? :|
Edit history:
grndino: 2009-04-03 09:54:37 pm
oh, sorry, I restarted the run again.  patience please

edit: well, this is a bitch.  i restarted the run cuz waiting for all the ship to launch in the order they like was getting cost-prohibitive.  however mission 2 isn't putting out; the lowest i've gotten so far is 10:35 instead of the wonderful 10:19 i had earlier, despite not having to wait for ~5 scouts to launch before the salvette.  i mean what the fuck

edit2: oh ho ho, just got 10:14.  suicidally rushed the missle corvettes to get behind them. i lost three more scouts than last time, but eh.

edit3: and saved four seconds on mission 3, hooray.
Great stuff so far. This is gonna be good considering how difficult the later missions get. Its gonna be good seeing the strategies you use in order to finish this.
Current plan for mission 4 involves harassing the carrier and its two ion array frigates asap with the scouts, with the assault frigates lumbering over so they have something to do.  I ignore the fighters and corvettes as they are avoidable and only keep respawning if you spend all your time attacking them.  The rest of the enemy fighters will be attacking my collector, which is constantly being healed by its controller.  Meanwhile I'll have six salvettes capping three of the five warping in iafs, with my new bombers (making anywhere up to 16 of them, maybe more since the collector will dump a load or two) killing the other two, and finally quickly killing the carrier.

Before I record that tho, I want a plan for mission five set in stone.  Grabbing the resourcers seems like a no brainer.  There's eight assaults I think, and three or six ions.  Assaults are too difficult to capture and I don't like em anyways, so they're scout/bomber fodder. The ions,... eh maybe one group of em.  The destroyers and the carrier are the cake here, and would take a ridiculous number of salvettes.  My pessimism tells me that capping them would take too much time, but then again, you don't normally piss the carrier off right away.
Run, you pigeons. It's Robert Frost!
I wonder if spending more time in one easier mission might save you time later?  For example, building up a force so you can crush the opponant easier.

Maybe not though, maybe just smashing headlong through the game would work best.
Edit history:
grndino: 2009-04-07 01:30:24 am
I made up a checklist for myself because I kept forgetting things while practicing mission 4.  I'm going to rerun m3 and
-not get a support frig until later (end of m4 prolly)
-build about a dozen more scouts
-start researching capitol chassis right before warp
and the checklist:
1. release launch hold
2. collector H and F4
3. controller move
4. frigs move to gap, group 4
5. salvettes 11km back, group 6
6. scouts form up and move to gap
7. cutscene, spacebar spacebar spacebar
8. click on bentusi, wait A D B
9. 20 bombers
10. make sure scouts are going to be attacking the ions, keep them away from the invisible missle corvettes, afterwards attacking whatever else but not too much damage to carrier or it will give it too much inertia for escaping
11. 4, attack less damaged ion, make sure the other is at least flaming before 4 gets there, 4 to attack carrier afterwards
12. when 12 or 13 bombers are built, ions will warp in
13. try to be at 6 when portals appear, salvage
14. bombers are 5 attacking one ion, F4 and F10
15. scouts are dying due to negligence, give them about ten second of love
16. add to 5 and kill other ion
17. more scout attention
18. add to 5 and attack carrier, F4 and F10 and guard a lone scout (to 4) to make a battleball
19. don't let bombers die too much
20. need to kill corvettes, fighters?
and then... I need to decide what to build for m5 still.  salvettes, support frig, bombers... prolly not scouts. and definitely not assaults, I hope the two I have die.

Quote from mcbroiler:
I wonder if spending more time in one easier mission might save you time later?  For example, building up a force so you can crush the opponant easier.

yeah if I have to stop at any point for something that's just building or collecting resources, or later on waiting for a salvage target to arrive, I will consider the run a failure.

edit: m3 down again, one second faster :D; m4 almost down but playing hard to get
Edit history:
grndino: 2009-04-21 09:00:28 pm
So, in the course of doing attempts on m4 I changed my strat quite a bit.  With the checklist above I was reaching times well over eleven minutes, which I really didn't like.  So I did a bit of investigating on what exactly causes what to spawn, etc.  Here's an updated checklist:

-release launch hold
-harvester to harvest (which is dump in this case)
-frigs to retire
-controller guards collector
space space space space space
-salvagers back about 11m
-get those scouts in a ball and movin' out (they get to where they need early enough)
watch that bentusi ship come in.... space space space space
-get 25 bombers going (the most I can build in the time it takes to do m4) and max out on scouts
-wait for mothership & two ions to warp in, attack the under belly of each and then go after everything as it uncloaks
in particular the missile corvette packs love to end attempts
-after everything's dead send the ball to clean up at the collector (which is never really in danger)
-about this time (once the 13th bomber gets out) the five ions will warp in (why can't I research this trick?)
-I go clockwise killing all but one and include the scouts in the sphere, instead of clumsily having them join the ball
-about now it's just the carrier left so I have the ball start attacking it (bravely), and the sphere starts to travel over
-the carrier won't be much of a worry after it starts retreating, I think I lose 3 ships the whole mission

On the whole, changes from what I initially planned to end the mission with:
-still only 6 salvagers instead of four more
-a few more bombers but not 40 like I had planned at one point
-much more protective of how many scouts die
-all frigates either retired or not captured

Anyways my attempts went from 'perfect' segments at 11:01 down to a few 10:30s and then getting below 10 minutes.. finally with the above strat I got this:

Honestly I'd say the discovery of getting bomber tech on mission 4 is what saved the run.  It'll save plenty of time on m5 as well.  Plan for m5 is currently:

-send out two salvagers right away, at the beacon
-send out the other four along the resource vein, they'll need to cap the collectors almost immediately to be useful
-send out the scout ball and the bomber wall after it all loads out
-scouts will likely get there first, they are responsible for one or two frigs and the fighters and later on protecting the bombers once they get there
-bombers will attack anything on the way directly to the carrier, but ignore anything that requires stopping.  the faster I get to the carrier, the fewer defenders it will unleash.  defenders = death, especially for the bombers
-scouts will meet the bombers at the carrier and attempt to distract the defenders
-somewhere during this time the 2 salvagers will have attracted all the attention and been told to dock and mothership
-and the other 4 salvettes will be grabbing the collectors, perhaps after they've collected a bit but I prolly won't have time
-after the carrier is dead I can begin sending fighters back to the mothership and taking potshots at the caravan, hopefully not encurring to many losses (this will depend on how many defenders need dying)
in addition I need to do about two or three researches and build bombers to replace the many scouts that will die

This plan surprises me in that I am only capping two things, if that.  VorpalEdge mentioned that this mission would be the most difficult to plan and including the planning for going out of m4, he's right.  Beyond m5 I have an asteroid belt I am afraid will be impossible to do quickly, and two garden missions, the first of which I know is automatic but one that I hilariously run out of fuel on often; and the second which contains the revered multibeam frigates.
Edit history:
LightningX: 2009-04-22 09:00:54 am
Quote from grndino:
multibeam frigates.

I'm really lookin forward to this, the other homeworlds would be cool as well
Man, I do look forward to potential future HQ versions.
Added Mission 5, which is much smoother than expected.  I didn't capture the carrier as was originally hoped; this will have repercussions as late as mission 10 as I won't have another opportunity to capture one until then (which is when it'd be useful).  Support frigs will have to suffice.

On closer inspection it seems mission 8 is practically giving me 5 idle multibeam frigs if I take the time to capture them in addition to the four it attacks me with.  This looks tempting with mission 10 looming but I need to consider how much firepower I'll really need; and frigates are not terribly fast.
Run, you pigeons. It's Robert Frost!
Do you mind explaining the scout ball of fury tactic?  How does that work?
Quote from mcbroiler:
Do you mind explaining the scout ball of fury tactic?  How does that work?

The hw online community had dubbed it the battleball.  Basically it involves an exploit surrounding the protect command.  A group of scouts in the aggressive sphere formation will not only find targets on their own but move in relation to the protected scout.  The win comes from the fact that they will move in an antithetical manner to the direction they are currently aimed at.

To begin the ball, I need to set one scout to group 1 which will act as the center of the ball.  This guy will either be on evasive or neutral and won't actually attack anything.  The remaining scouts I have will be set to aggressive and sphere, and to protect the center one.  I push F4, F10 and then ctrl+alt+click on the center scout to accomplish this.  I also set the sphere to group 2, and the entire ball to group 3.  I select group 3 in order to spam Z, which in the scout's case is speed boost.

This is usually nice enough as I can avoid the majority of fire directed at me by keeping the center in constant motion.  However, the surrounding group is very fickle and will spread out once any one of them takes damage; ironically this makes them more vulnerable in some ways.  To cure this, I can't simply reassert the protect command, I need to tell the sphere to do something else.  Usually this is 'move' and then quickly protect again.  However the center can be easily lost so I need to hit group 1 twice in order to zoom in on it quickly.  It's also a good idea to keep group one moving while the sphere is recondensed, but I don't want group 1 to escape the confines of the sphere because it will then become more likely targeted.  So, ordering move and then protect needs to be done quickly not only to preserve the effectiveness of the group but to keep the center alive.

If the center does die and the segment is going too good to simply restart, I need to act even more quickly.  I find a new center by selecting group 2, deselecting a scout and reassigning group 2, then clicking on the deselected scout (not always easy) and assigning not only group 1 but evasive or neutral tactics.  A center on aggressive is useless as it will not always follow my orders if there's something to attack.  Then group 2 needs to be reset as a sphere all while the new center keeps moving.  If things are going this bad however, I will usually restart.

Attack bombers don't need as much babysitting but do acquire a bit more efficiency by switching their formations between wall and sphere as they approach a target.  Damage to the rear of a target is more effective so ... yeah forgot where I was going there.

Anyways I hope this answers your question.  I've had finals this past week so I haven't been working on the run; look for another segment in a week or so.