GTA San Andreas Official Thread

2013-03-18 04:19:46 pm

@Joshimuz: I see that playing at 25 FPS sucks, but the point of speedrunning is also competition and display of skills. Therefore somewhat comparable settings are required, otherwise what is the purpose then, if someone will grind down your times because of faster hardware and not better execution?

I´m not an expert in such questions maybe you should ask someone who knows better, but I can just tell that from running GTA 2 as example, if i turn off the limiter i get 190+FPS which speeds the game up to 6 times, but i can adjust it with fraps to 50 FPS... it will be still nearly twice as fast as normal game speed, but it doesn´t create competitive settings, because another guy can come and play with 60FPS...and another one with 62FPS... and it will get ridiculous at some point. I know SA doesn´t have such extreme effects on speed but it seems wrong however.

S.

Edit history:

S.: 2013-03-18 07:18:07 pm

S.: 2013-03-18 06:11:55 pm

2013-03-18 06:10:43 pm

GTASA isn't as broken as the other GTA's. (Plus they lose time in the menu because of the switching for swimming).

These settings are still 'somewhat comparable' imo.

Could be useful if someone makes a table, comparing stuff at 25 fps (limiter on), 30, 60 and 120 FPS (common framerates), just to get a good sense at the differences, and make estimates so we can compare runs in the future, when two players get runs with similar length but different framerates.

Quote:

LotsOfS is doing 100% Single-segment over at http://twitch.tv/lotsofs/

Make that S. please, not LotsOfS

Joshimuz

2013-03-19 09:17:54 am

Also, can I add that the in game time for my current WR is 6 hours and 15 minutes... 6 minutes off the segmented world record.
I forgot that the segmented WR is in game time, I'm glad I checked it on stream yesterday after the credits rolled.

S.

2013-03-19 10:15:48 am

in game time is irrrelevant though if you loaded a save after a death or something, I don't know if you did?

Joshimuz

2013-03-19 10:25:45 am

Ah yes that's true, I defiantly did.
Now I also remember why I'm not using in game time Tongue

S.

2013-03-19 12:38:43 pm

One day you'll be consistent enough you don't need those load games anymore, then you can use game time.

Nixixix

2013-03-19 01:40:00 pm

Quote from sett3:

what do you think about 3rd segment? should i re-run it and get better results in drive-by and with all random shit that happend in segment that worth about ~15 seconds, or its good?

I would prefer you to finish the run at some point. If you have a lot of long segments like that, I can't imagine grinding them all to perfection. 'Perfect' > near-perfect >> decent > nothing. Tastes may vary. To me that one was squarely near-perfect.

What I'm concerned about in your third segment is tags 4 and 14 (IIRC) that didn't give the confirmation sound. I think you would have gotten it by spraying about a frame longer. I'm not at all sure if it matters, but I seem to remember some detail like this keeping the game from registering 100% completion. It would be weird because it's already counting the tags correctly, but better make sure before you continue if you aren't sure already.

Late response, sorry.

sett3

Edit history:

sett3: 2013-03-19 07:49:14 pm

2013-03-19 06:35:54 pm

Blip doesn't matter, you just need confirmination message

S.

2013-03-19 07:46:33 pm

I had a glitch once where the confirmation message stayed on my screen indefinitely and that broke stuff. But that wasn´t the case so w/e.

Up to you, if you want to try it more, go for it, but the overall segment is solid, so definitely not necessary. No real routing oddities I see either.

sett3

2013-03-19 07:50:26 pm

If so, I'll start to work on 4 one

Patrick

2013-03-20 04:57:33 am

In Cesar Vialpando, driving through the sewer is faster if you manage to get out while being on two wheels. You get out at the wall near a fence which you get rid off by shooting it. Testing out whether nitro is worth it makes sense, too.

I believe that Sweet's Girl can be done without taking more than very few hits. Drive-bys and taking cover behind your car help but it seams to be harder than it sounds. Going to test that more. Those guys are extremely accurate if you have no cover and keep shooting when shot at (immune to being 'paralysed' by shots). IIRC, Josh underestimates them.

I guess I am going to test some things today.

Nice to hear from you, Nixixix, I was not far from asking you whether you're 'dead'. :-D

Good luck, sett3. :-)

mikwuyma

2013-03-20 05:41:43 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

So AdamAK pointed me to this topic.

Frame limiter needs to be on so that running this game is more fair and doesn't become hardware-dependent. It sounds like taking off the frame-limiter speeds the game up in weird ways that are dependent on how fast your hardware is, which isn't really the point of speedrunning.

I'm sure the 25 fps limit sucks, but at the same time, it sucks for everyone in a fair and balanced way.

KFC

2013-03-20 07:03:02 am

ChickenB0h BOH! :D

well look at the bright side, you won't need to change it every time you go into water...

sett3

2013-03-20 07:25:18 am

can anyone tell me what exactly frame limiter off speed up? it's just spraying over tags speed. please share yours opinions with any proof

Patrick

2013-03-20 07:58:48 am

I am on it, sett3.

all the things I know about are relevant rare enough so that you can just enable the frame limiter for those in order to destroy the advantage:

There is probably a subjective difference for some things where there is none when tested in some cases - it is easy to fool our perception: e.g. GTA3's Banshee: subjective: monster acceleration, objective: just 10% faster than a Mafia Sentinel

But the following differences are either huge or timed

proof - I can provide it if I am convinced that it is needed but I am sure that all those are correct.

positives of high f.r.:
heli start-up time
boat deceleration (maybe acceleration?)
running: it is faster if (1)mouse wheel running and (2) f.lim. off are both true - maybe it is about how short you press the 'button', the mashing rate doesn't matter as long as it is high (just looks slower at high frame rate)
gate openings (air port) - relevant in one mission where you drive into the airport at high speed / a cut scene is faster for that reason
you move forwards faster in a parachute, w/o losing more height at the same time - relevant in two missions - flight school and where you need to parachute onto a roof top

negatives:
swimming is much slower
diving is impossible to do? For Josh, it seams, at 60 fps it works alright (maybe slower, not sure)

I am on it, sett3.

all the things I know about are relevant rare enough so that you can just enable the frame limiter for those in order to destroy the advantage:

There is probably a subjective difference for some things where there is none when tested in some cases - it is easy to fool our perception: e.g. GTA3's Banshee: subjective: monster acceleration, objective: just 10% faster than a Mafia Sentinel

But the following differences are either huge or timed

proof - I can provide it if I am convinced that it is needed but I am sure that all those are correct.

positives of high f.r.:
heli start-up time
boat deceleration (maybe acceleration?)
running: it is faster if (1)mouse wheel running and (2) f.lim. off are both true - maybe it is about how short you press the 'button', the mashing rate doesn't matter as long as it is high (just looks slower at high frame rate)
gate openings (air port) - relevant in one mission where you drive into the airport at high speed / a cut scene is faster for that reason
you move forwards faster in a parachute, w/o losing more height at the same time - relevant in two missions - flight school and where you need to parachute onto a roof top

negatives:
swimming is much slower
diving is impossible to do? For Josh, it seams, at 60 fps it works alright (maybe slower, not sure)

Molotok

2013-03-20 08:05:19 am

Quote from Joshimuz:

Also, can I add that the in game time for my current WR is 6 hours and 15 minutes... 6 minutes off the segmented world record.
I forgot that the segmented WR is in game time, I'm glad I checked it on stream yesterday after the credits rolled.

Quote from S.:

in game time is irrrelevant though if you loaded a save after a death or something, I don't know if you did?

Just for clarification and interest, now that I looked up the rules a bit. Because you died and reloaded your run would be considered segmented... and the ingame time would count... because:

Quote:

Speedruns that beat a game in one sitting without loading save files or quitting are single-segment runs. Loading a save file is only permitted in single-segment runs for games or categories (such as New Game Plus) that require doing so to progress. If the player saves and then retries multiple parts of the game individually, the run is considered segmented.

and

Quote:

We prefer to use consistent in-game timers wherever possible. If an in-game timer isn't available, a simple real-time measure is used.

That also means that a single-segment run would use ingame time because there are no progress benefiting save and reloads after dieing(exception for save and reload would be collecting the minigun, because you require it for gang territories later, but you don´t fool ingame time with that). I guess the correct category is any% RTA(Real Time Attack). Then it wouldn´t matter if dieing is required for progress or not and real time is the measurement.

[quote="Joshimuz"]Also, can I add that the in game time for my current WR is 6 hours and 15 minutes... 6 minutes off the segmented world record. 
I forgot that the segmented WR is in game time, I'm glad I checked it on stream yesterday after the credits rolled. [/quote]
[quote="S."]in game time is irrrelevant though if you loaded a save after a death or something, I don't know if you did?[/quote]
Just for clarification and interest, now that I looked up the rules a bit. Because you died and reloaded your run would be considered segmented... and the ingame time would count... because:
 [quote]Speedruns that beat a game in one sitting without loading save files or quitting are single-segment runs. Loading a save file is only permitted in single-segment runs for games or categories (such as New Game Plus) that require doing so to progress. If the player saves and then retries multiple parts of the game individually, the run is considered segmented.[/quote] and
[quote]We prefer to use consistent in-game timers wherever possible. If an in-game timer isn't available, a simple real-time measure is used.[/quote]
That also means that a single-segment run would use ingame time because there are no progress benefiting save and reloads after dieing(exception for save and reload would be collecting the minigun, because you require it for gang territories later, but you don´t fool ingame time with that). I guess the correct category is any% RTA(Real Time Attack). Then it wouldn´t matter if dieing is required for progress or not and real time is the measurement.

sett3

Edit history:

sett3: 2013-03-20 08:13:09 am

2013-03-20 08:12:53 am

with frame limiter off cars handling is awful, compared to 25 fps. also, can i just play at 35 fps? framerate until 40 fps doesnt affect anything, but i just can't stand this 25 slideshow anymore

Nixixix

2013-03-20 12:20:49 pm

Unfortunately I'm quite sure it affects at least something. You are able to make the jump to the roof tag in Tagging Up Turf from street level. With the limiter it's possible but hard from the slightly elevated sidewalk (not many seconds slower), but without limiter it's easier than that even from the lower level. Though maybe you can do it even with the limiter on? I can't.

Quote from freakypaddy:

Nice to hear from you, Nixixix, I was not far from asking you whether you're 'dead'. :-D

Not quite dead yet. Smiley

I've sent some minor advice to Josh in private but haven't had anything new to contribute really. I've been working on gang territory strats, but there's nothing finalized yet.

Quote from freakypaddy:

running: it is faster if (1)mouse wheel running and (2) f.lim. off are both true - maybe it is about how short you press the 'button', the mashing rate doesn't matter as long as it is high (just looks slower at high frame rate)

Can you expand on this? I suck at sprinting (comparing to Josh at least) and would really like to know the mechanics. "The mashing rate doesn't matter as long as it is high" – how do you define high? Constant or dependent on the framerate? "Looks slower at high frame rate" – what do you mean?

It would be great if someone could test things with a ridiculous framerate like 500. Unfortunately for some reason my computer doesn't give much more than 70 FPS regardless of graphics settings.

Not that all this matters for SDA purposes if the decision is final. I wish we could standardize a max framerate (60 could be good) and use external tools to limit to it, but that's so arbitrary and dirty. Sad

I really really wish that Rockstar had coded it better. If all else fails, even that PS2 had enough power to run it at 30 like the older GTAs, so that that would be the standard rate.

Well, this doesn't really concern me directly. I don't think I'll ever produce a submittable run anyway, and watching 25 FPS video is much easier on the eyes than playing at it for some reason. Still a run with better aiming is nicer, and framerate does really help that.

Quote:

gate openings (air port) - relevant in one mission where you drive into the airport at high speed / a cut scene is faster for that reason

What mission/cutscene? I can't think of anything. But also about airport gates, opening the SF airport gates before you're supposed to get in, by (optionally) punching them and turning around, seems to be more reliable with a higher framerate. Or I'm just doing it wrong.

Unfortunately I'm quite sure it affects at least something. You are able to make the jump to the roof tag in Tagging Up Turf from street level. With the limiter it's possible but hard from the slightly elevated sidewalk (not many seconds slower), but without limiter it's easier than that even from the lower level. Though maybe you can do it even with the limiter on? I can't.

[quote="freakypaddy"]Nice to hear from you, Nixixix, I was not far from asking you whether you're 'dead'. :-D[/quote]
Not quite dead yet. :) I've sent some minor advice to Josh in private but haven't had anything new to contribute really. I've been working on gang territory strats, but there's nothing finalized yet.

[quote="freakypaddy"]running: it is faster if (1)mouse wheel running and (2) f.lim. off are both true - maybe it is about how short you press the 'button', the mashing rate doesn't matter as long as it is high (just looks slower at high frame rate)[/quote]
Can you expand on this? I suck at sprinting (comparing to Josh at least) and would really like to know the mechanics. "The mashing rate doesn't matter as long as it is high" – how do you define high? Constant or dependent on the framerate? "Looks slower at high frame rate" – what do you mean?

It would be great if someone could test things with a ridiculous framerate like 500. Unfortunately for some reason my computer doesn't give much more than 70 FPS regardless of graphics settings.

Not that all this matters for SDA purposes if the decision is final. I wish we could standardize a max framerate (60 could be good) and use external tools to limit to it, but that's so arbitrary and dirty. :( I really really wish that Rockstar had coded it better. If all else fails, even that PS2 had enough power to run it at 30 like the older GTAs, so that that would be the standard rate.

Well, this doesn't really concern me directly. I don't think I'll ever produce a submittable run anyway, and watching 25 FPS video is much easier on the eyes than playing at it for some reason. Still a run with better aiming is nicer, and framerate does really help that.

[quote]gate openings (air port) - relevant in one mission where you drive into the airport at high speed / a cut scene is faster for that reason[/quote]
What mission/cutscene? I can't think of anything. But also about airport gates, opening the SF airport gates before you're supposed to get in, by (optionally) punching them and turning around, seems to be more reliable with a higher framerate. Or I'm just doing it wrong.

DJS

Edit history:

DJS: 2013-03-20 01:01:47 pm

2013-03-20 12:53:09 pm

torch slug since 2006

Quote from mikwuyma:

Frame limiter needs to be on

thank you!

Quote from sett3:

Blip doesn't matter, you just need confirmination message

iirc, a long time ago when HITMAN or whatever he called himself, did his 100% run, he didnt get the blip in one segment, and had to go back and re-do it later on (which was a real hazzle) because the tag wasnt registered.

Nixixix

2013-03-20 01:18:54 pm

Thank you! Now that you mention it, I'm pretty sure that's what I was remembering as well.

---

By the way, if the frame limiter decision is ever to be reconsidered, now is the perfect time. The current record run is dead in the water and will be badly beaten regardless of the frame limiter. In the future there will be much more competitive runs made with whatever settings are now chosen, making it really hard to change the rules then.

Forcing the limiter on now will also lose sett3's progress but thankfully that's only three segments so far. I can only hope that it doesn't also discourage the active runners from SDA compatibility.

S.

Edit history:

S.: 2013-03-20 01:54:16 pm

S.: 2013-03-20 01:52:36 pm

S.: 2013-03-20 01:49:21 pm

S.: 2013-03-20 01:48:50 pm

S.: 2013-03-20 01:48:42 pm

S.: 2013-03-20 01:48:04 pm

S.: 2013-03-20 01:47:19 pm

S.: 2013-03-20 01:43:13 pm

S.: 2013-03-20 01:33:56 pm

S.: 2013-03-20 01:33:30 pm

S.: 2013-03-20 01:25:58 pm

2013-03-20 01:25:17 pm

Forcing the frame limiter on is unnecessary imo. Most people seem to think turning it off gives a huge advantage, but it doesn't. I just don't understand why the people who actually knew what the frame limiter did didn't say so, it would've avoided this discussion and made it not "sound like this speeds up the game in weird ways"

Frame limiter gives as much disadvantages as advantages, if not more, and it's not just the swimming and other stuff for which Josh (and others) specifically turns it off. Car handling (friction, roll it back over on flips, whatever else Josh pointed out on his stream today) is affected by it as well and that carries on throughout the entire game, not just specific missions.

The only notable advantages frame limiter off gives is faster helicopter spinup and some tags, which certainly don't happen throughout the entire game.

As pointed out, if the FPS <40 there's no problem either. Don't see the sense in forcing people to sit through 25 fps (which they consider slideshows) if 30 fps is perfectly doable on even the worst machines nowadays.

Then again, I'm just informed by others, but from what I understood framelimiter off == harder, but a few advantages. If we limit it to a low but non-inhuman fps, rather than a high and insanely broken fps like 120, I don't see any problem with turning it off.

tl;dr: Framelimiter off = hard because the game screws you over a lot, with only minor advantages.
Framelimiter on = hard because 25 fps is unbearable to some.
Solution: turn the limiter off and limit the game in other ways to run at 30 / 35 fps.

Speaking as a person who can stand 25 fps, I'd feel bad for losing my competition because they get seizures coz they are not like me. I was racing someone once, and it seemed it would be competitive, but then they experienced a lot of gamecrashes, which put them behind a lot, that really demotivated me to continue the race. I couldn't care less about the 1 minute difference over a 6 or 17 hour run because of some faster tags and helicopters (which wouldn't be there anyway because of the disadvantanges)

Kept editing this post, so it'll be unstructured, but w/e.
Josh, what you said in your stream was brilliant, highlight it and put it online.

Forcing the frame limiter on is unnecessary imo. Most people seem to think turning it off gives a huge advantage, but it doesn't. I just don't understand why the people who actually knew what the frame limiter did didn't say so, it would've avoided this discussion and made it not "sound like this speeds up the game in weird ways"

Frame limiter gives as much disadvantages as advantages, if not more, and it's not just the swimming and other stuff for which Josh (and others) specifically turns it off. Car handling (friction, roll it back over on flips, whatever else Josh pointed out on his stream today) is affected by it as well and that carries on throughout the entire game, not just specific missions.

The only notable advantages frame limiter off gives is faster helicopter spinup and some tags, which certainly don't happen throughout the entire game.

As pointed out, if the FPS <40 there's no problem either. Don't see the sense in forcing people to sit through 25 fps (which they consider slideshows) if 30 fps is perfectly doable on even the worst machines nowadays.

Then again, I'm just informed by others, but from what I understood framelimiter off == harder, but a few advantages. If we limit it to a low but non-inhuman fps, rather than a high and insanely broken fps like 120, I don't see any problem with turning it off.

tl;dr: Framelimiter off = hard because the game screws you over a lot, with only minor advantages.
Framelimiter on = hard because 25 fps is unbearable to some.
Solution: turn the limiter off and limit the game in other ways to run at 30 / 35 fps.

Speaking as a person who can stand 25 fps, I'd feel bad for losing my competition because they get seizures coz they are not like me. I was racing someone once, and it seemed it would be competitive, but then they experienced a lot of gamecrashes, which put them behind a lot, that really demotivated me to continue the race. I couldn't care less about the 1 minute difference over a 6 or 17 hour run because of some faster tags and helicopters (which wouldn't be there anyway because of the disadvantanges)

Kept editing this post, so it'll be unstructured, but w/e.
Josh, what you said in your stream was brilliant, highlight it and put it online.

Nixixix

Edit history:

Nixixix: 2013-03-20 02:35:20 pm

2013-03-20 02:13:40 pm

Quote from S.:

I just don't understand why the people who actually knew what the frame limiter did didn't say so.

I guess because no one knew exactly until Patrick's recent (as I understand) tests.

What we know are some isolated things that the limiter affects; but hardly anything can be confidently said to not be affected in the slightest. I've only really played at 25 and ~55, and watched Josh's ~150. AFAIK no one knows what happens at 1000 for example. Certainly diving (just pressing fire) seems the same at 25 and 55 but suddenly totally different at 150. Well, I haven't watched videos side by side, differences that I don't notice may be huge.

Besides swimming, I've known of the few extremely small things and the parachuting which only makes a really significant time difference in flight school (which I posted about earlier), and that generally things feel different. Car handling for one is really hard to quantify. I doubt any serious time measurements have been made, certainly not reported.

About harder/easier, I would say that for me 55 is definitely easier or equal to 25 in every way that I notice, not just the eye strain. Slower/faster I don't really know apart from the few things that are clear.

Quote:

As pointed out, if the FPS <40 there's no problem either. Don't see the sence in forcing people to sit through 25 fps (which they consider slideshows) if the game allows them to run it at 35.

I'm not sure where this figure of 40 comes from. How do we tell that there's no difference instead of just smaller?

Seems like I'm arguing pro-25 here but that's not because I favor it. Like I said, an external limiter at max 60 (or anything above 30 at least) would be my favorite solution, but I can see why people don't like that either. For me, 60 > 40 > (no-limit or above 60) > 25.

I'll shut up about this now, as I'm not even planning to competitively run this.

[quote="S."]I just don't understand why the people who actually knew what the frame limiter did didn't say so.[/quote]
I guess because no one knew exactly until Patrick's recent (as I understand) tests.

What we know are some isolated things that the limiter affects; but hardly anything can be confidently said to not be affected in the slightest. I've only really played at 25 and ~55, and watched Josh's ~150. AFAIK no one knows what happens at 1000 for example. Certainly diving (just pressing fire) seems the same at 25 and 55 but suddenly totally different at 150. Well, I haven't watched videos side by side, differences that I don't notice may be huge.

Besides swimming, I've known of the few extremely small things and the parachuting which only makes a really significant time difference in flight school (which I posted about earlier), and that generally things feel different. Car handling for one is really hard to quantify. I doubt any serious time measurements have been made, certainly not reported.

About harder/easier, I would say that for me 55 is definitely easier or equal to 25 in every way that I notice, not just the eye strain. Slower/faster I don't really know apart from the few things that are clear.

[quote]As pointed out, if the FPS <40 there's no problem either. Don't see the sence in forcing people to sit through 25 fps (which they consider slideshows) if the game allows them to run it at 35.[/quote]
I'm not sure where this figure of 40 comes from. How do we tell that there's no difference instead of just smaller?

Seems like I'm arguing pro-25 here but that's not because I favor it. Like I said, an external limiter at max 60 (or anything above 30 at least) would be my favorite solution, but I can see why people don't like that either. For me, 60 > 40 > (no-limit or above 60) > 25.

I'll shut up about this now, as I'm not even planning to competitively run this.

bubblebobbler

2013-03-20 02:39:35 pm

http://www.twitch.tv/bubbleb0bbler/c/2048853
I was told to post this here by S

Patrick

2013-03-20 03:38:05 pm

Molotok: reloading is advantagious (else he wouldnt do it), the category is SS with resets, timed manually.
Nixixix:
gate: Saint Mark's Bistro, cutscene gate: You've Had Your Chips

sprinting clarification:you can run faster than with mashing space if the f.l. is off and you run with the mouse wheel. Else the speed is always the same as long as the mashing rate is high (4x / sec I guess, use a stopwatch and count '1,2,3,4,1,[...]') - actually that is a low rate. :-) I have nearly no practice and can mash that fast at ease (=not feeling stressed at all). I tested f.l. on, 60, 100 (max for me, with low settings).

bubblebobble:
afaik this is not your find but I guess you revived it so gj for re-viving and finding a use for it. :-) I timed it to be 10-25% faster than jogging. That is not amazing, but what can be is that you take less bullets while running past people. Unfortunately, I could not replicate Josh's running through Re-uniting the Families, he somehow only lost one armor bar ... o.O

Saint Mark's Bistro:
this is what I tested in today's 'planning session', I am still not done yet, I need to test more systematically in the future...
But I can tell this: You can blow up the guys downstairs through the floor and it is fastest to kill the super human with the chainsaw (starting clicking left while walking).Rocket strats obsolete either the save after Green Goo (for health) or the armor or both, let's see. :-)

Molotok: reloading is advantagious (else he wouldnt do it), the category is SS with resets, timed manually.
Nixixix:
gate: Saint Mark's Bistro, cutscene gate: You've Had Your Chips

sprinting clarification:you can run faster than with mashing space if the f.l. is off and you run with the mouse wheel. Else the speed is always the same as long as the mashing rate is high (4x / sec I guess, use a stopwatch and count '1,2,3,4,1,[...]') - actually that is a low rate. :-) I have nearly no practice and can mash that fast at ease (=not feeling stressed at all). I tested f.l. on, 60, 100 (max for me, with low settings).

bubblebobble:
afaik this is not your find but I guess you revived it so gj for re-viving and finding a use for it. :-) I timed it to be 10-25% faster than jogging. That is not amazing, but what can be is that you take less bullets while running past people. Unfortunately, I could not replicate Josh's running through Re-uniting the Families, he somehow only lost one armor bar ... o.O

Saint Mark's Bistro:
this is what I tested in  today's 'planning session', I am still not done yet, I need to test more systematically in the future...
But I can tell this: You can blow up the guys downstairs through the floor and it is fastest to kill the super human with the chainsaw (starting clicking left while walking).Rocket strats obsolete either the save after Green Goo (for health) or the armor or both, let's see. :-)

Molotok

2013-03-20 05:45:14 pm

Quote from freakypaddy:

Molotok: reloading is advantagious (else he wouldnt do it), the category is SS with resets, timed manually.

I meant that save and load to get minigun ammo is allowed in a SS, because the ingame time advances. If he screws up somewhere (f.e. dies during a mission) and reloads, then the ingame time which advanced gets lost and it is the same as having a second attempt, which means the SS is over and now it is a segmented run. RTA can be a SS if its done in one attempt and a segmented run for attempts >1 + that the actual real time is used as measurement.

A funny example: Joshimuz gets a 6:15:25 run in real time, but he screwed up somewhere and saved and reloaded to restart missions a few times. His ingame time is 6:00 because through x reloads ingame time was reset to that of the old save state. Now he wants to submit the run as SS, but because he had several attempts the run is no more SS. But his 6:00 would beat CannibalK9´s segmented run time and thus he would have a new segmented run record. xD

Honestly RTA(== SS or segmented run, with resets timed manually) doesn´t even make much sense in this game because it will be either segmented or SS in the end and the ingame time seems to be considered as the measurement, as the accepted runs so far are all in ingame time for this game. If it should be SS he would need to get there by car or whatever to restart the mission instead of reloading, because then ingame time advances. But if somehow i am wrong because my intelligence was poor, then don´t beat me. lol

[quote="freakypaddy"]Molotok: reloading is advantagious (else he wouldnt do it), the category is SS with resets, timed manually.[/quote]
I meant that save and load to get minigun ammo is allowed in a SS, because the ingame time advances. If he screws up somewhere (f.e. dies during a mission) and reloads, then the ingame time which advanced gets lost and it is the same as having a second attempt, which means the SS is over and now it is a segmented run. RTA can be a SS if its done in one attempt and a segmented run for attempts >1 + that the actual real time is used as measurement.

A funny example: Joshimuz gets a 6:15:25 run in real time, but he screwed up somewhere and saved and reloaded to restart missions a few times. His ingame time is 6:00 because through x reloads ingame time was reset to that of the old save state. Now he wants to submit the run as SS, but because he had several attempts the run is no more SS. But his 6:00 would beat CannibalK9´s segmented run time and thus he would have a new segmented run record. xD

Honestly RTA(== SS or segmented run, with resets timed manually) doesn´t even make much sense in this game because it will be either segmented or SS in the end and the ingame time seems to be considered as the measurement, as the accepted runs so far are all in ingame time for this game. If it should be SS he would need to get there by car or whatever to restart the mission instead of reloading, because then ingame time advances. But if somehow i am wrong because my intelligence was poor, then don´t beat me. lol